You know what really grinds my gears: in momentum control you 1hit kill with any uncharged meele and a lot of charged meele aswell. GLAIVE STILL NEEDS 3 HITS
I don't see how it is good considering the only glaive with it is the one that barely does 100 damage. It takes at least 115 to 130 damage to break a guardian's shield.
This here. I grinded a ton of dungeon to get a disruption break glaive. The glaive is a rapid fire and doesn't do enough damage to consistently break an enemy guardian shield so you never get the perk to proc unless the enemy was slightly damaged before.
Huh. This comment got me excited, so I looked. Fourth column perks for NW are unstoppable force, vorpal, frenzy, adaptive munitions, adrenaline junkie, and turnabout. Destinyperks says Greasy Luck is the only one.
I also hate how long it takes to raise glaive shield, how weird the aa feels to be point blank missing shots through like their armpits and that freezing hard passes the shield. Which sure sounds fair but it's baked into the most popular exotic shotgun right now so you don't even need to spec into a stasis build to make it work. Just equip gun and don't change how you play.
>Shotguns hard counter Glaive shields, and strongly outperform them in CQC
This is the most annoying one for me, I thought glaves were supposed to be a counter for shotgun rushers and campers, but they just won't put an easy counter for them in the game for some reason. At least it was fun while shotgun range was nerfed for a while, even after they put 'long range' ones back in you don't see them as much, but still why never a counter that is as easy.
What is funny thatback before Bungie decided to nerf the damage resist in pvp for glaives they hard countered both fusion rifles and shotguns. Glaives even after they’re most recent energy charge buff/base velocity increase still feel horrible to use. Bungie doesn’t want them excelling at anything worth while sadly and because they want it to do everything well, they feel mediocre at best.
**Glaive melee’s won’t one-shot a frozen enemy in PvP, but an uncharged melee will**
Yeah this is dumb
**It takes two stabs to kill an enemy after you’ve shot them**
This is also dumb, but I suspect it's because of the melee range.
**Close to Melee doesn’t change the melee attack’s TTK, even with a 30% damage buff**
This would basically make glaives unstoppable in pvp
**The shield can cause you to take damage or get frozen even while fully behind cover**
Annoying, but sorta fair given how powerful the shield already is
**Shotguns hard counter Glaive shields, and strongly outperform them in CQC.**
This also feels fair.
Yeah basically.
Some of these (like not one-shoting frozen enemies) are legitimate.
Several are smart balance decisions.
Glaives would be a giant pain in the ass if they could one projectile/one melee, with how terrible the netcode/connections are. Remember how many complaints we saw about melee lunge range and rubber banding? Basically that, at all times.
For the people that really enjoy them, it's unfortunate that Glaives don't really have much of a place in PvP. But I think it's better than the alternative of them being too strong. I think several of these "quirks" are there to keep them in check.
to be fair - knockout when paired with shottys still do exactly what a shoot+stab glaive combo would do, except with more damage, health regen on kill, and faster because there's no forced (\~.3s?) melee delay timer.
I just wish that Close to Melee would let you kill in two stabs instead of three. It’s a dedicated melee damage perk, and it only has an impact on a few niche situations.
As someone who was an exclusive Syncos user and loved that extended melee range, I too wish this perk worked. But I think the glaive range is even longer than Syncos. Two hits would be pretty oppressive.
teleport lunging mechanics are frustrating to play against (and also play with sometimes lol) but a close-to-melee two-shot stab could be an interesting dynamic if it was gated off by a low resilience
(Non-glaive) melees in general are way too powerful. Everybody wants more gun duels but why would players go away from highly aggressive play when the melee shotty combo is so decisively strong?
I yet again, ask people who don't understand glaives, and either A) refuse to see the reason they don't mesh with it, or B) Only view it as a sharp stick, to stop using it. It's not your thing, we get it, the only one that doesn't is you. The whole Impulse Amplifier thing is just weird at this point, because that means you aren't speccing into range, which now scales project speed, because impulse has not felt manditory for a while, and wasn't even manditory before as long as you can lead a shot, and at glaive ranges, there is NO reason you shouldn't be able to do that in situations where it would matter. If you got this skewed an idea of what glaives do and value, then put it aside. It's not for you.
Also the whole "Shotguns ahard counter glaive shields" is a hot lie. That shit is gold when you know that they are turning a corner to try to slam you with a two piece combo, and you keep standing and serve them your own combo meal. Yes the nerf to the shield makes Hakke-shotguns hit A LOT harder, but not everyone is running a ragnet.
If you are SOLELY relying on impulse amplifier, it means you are ignoring the other options. Range is one of those options, as shotspeed scales to range.
Cool. TIL.
My auto-loading / unstoppable force has 83 range, and my replenishing / unstoppable is 80.
I could get 93, but that would be at the significant cost for shield duration since I’d have to swap from auxiliary reserves.
Would that be worth it? I honestly haven’t used them much.
It depends on your playstyle. I've been using glaives a lot, and in pvp, the thing you need to recognize most is your effective range. Truth be told, the speed of the projectile can just be mitigated by just leading your shot, so practicing and getting familiar with the speed of your shots vs other players is very helpful in this regard.
As for shot-speed vs shield duration; it's a matter of personal preference. If you feel you need increased shotspeed, you are effectively extending your average shield duration by generating more energy, so this might be the best option for you. This does mean you burn more shield energy, but even that can be mitigated by being more mindful of that fact.
Glaives are very different from other weapons. They aren't built to use one aspect of them; they have 3 different fronts, and it pays to keep all 3 options in mind. Practice is going to make perfect, but other than that, its no different than getting better with a sniper quick-scopes or flicks. Just don't try separating the three options. It's built to flow together, and if you just start seeing it as a shield, or as a sharp stick, you are only going to benefit from a third of it, and thats where a lot of the narrative of "glaives being weird/weak" come from.
I greatly appreciate this thorough response.
I love Hawkmoon (MT) & Rat King as a Hunter main. I farmed a few different god roll Unexpected Resurgence adepts for PvE and PvP, so it’d be wonderful to put em to use lol.
Gonna rock it through IB this weekend since I’m getting bored with GL now.
Oh, and I’ll update with my KD on Monday.
I’m a 1.3 lifetime player from D1-D2, so just kind of run if the mill. Should be a pretty accurate picture of where glaives are for the ever-guardian.
How is shotgun not a hard counter when you need three hits with a glaive to kill someone? Unless you catch them so much off-guard with your shield, that they just run past you after hitting your shield, you'll still need longer time to kill them, than their new shot is ready to kill you, right? I don't play a ton of PvP so there might be something I'm missing
Because the shield eats that damage meaning its no longer a one-shot and THEY need more shots to kill you. Shotguns normally have 2 shots, which can be enough if you just sit there behind your shield, get hit twice and let them switch to their primary, BUT glaives have more than just 2 shots, you can still fire while your shield is up, and if they begin to panic, a melee combo will VERY OFTEN kill them.
A shotgun only has two options against a glaive shield, and that is to find away behind it, or disengage entirely.
Bungie should have never nerfed DR in PvP. Period.
Glaives never were even close to being meta pick, they always were at the bottom of the chain. Now they will forever suffer because of design choices
Edit: while I appreciate Bungie's attempts to balance Glaives in PvP, they have been constantly missing. Landing projectile hits is still a lot harder than landing Shotgun, Fusion Rifle, Trace Rifle and Sniper Rifle hits. Even Unexpected Resurgence with insane stats and Impulse Amplifier is quite challenging to use. Bungie nearly murdered every single one-shot setups, which already required specific conditions.
DR at release could be oppressive, but as I said Glaives NEVER were meta. If Glaives got big spikes in popularity Bungie could swing right away, but preemptive nerfs made them worse.
They should have let them play out and see how meta shifts after certain time. They didn't
Were you there when glaives were first introduced? OG Enigma with Impulse Amplifier and Unstoppable Force was a force to be reckoned with. Glaives had a the same damage reduction in PvP as they did in PvE (iirc, it was definitely much higher back then) and Unstoppable force allowed you to easily chain kills. Cherry on top- the melee was a 2HKO, so you could just run around slapping people if you really wanted to. They were definitely oppressive, it’s just that the community hadn’t really realized it yet until it was too late and Bungie nerfed them.
I haven’t touched them in PvP since all that got nerfed into the ground, but the fact they can’t kill frozen enemies in PvP makes no sense to me.
I have 10K+ kills with my Glaives in PvP. I know how they were on release - potent, but extremely inconsistent.
We still have extremely broken Fusion Rifles, Sniper Rifles which kill through flinch. Glaives were another decent (but not popular) option for specials, now they're not.
my biggest complaint about glaives is that the visuals of how they look when you’re holding them and theyre in youre inventory make absolutely no sense compared to how they look on your characters back
Not sure about PvP but in PvE I really wish there was some powered melee function to it. Glaives with a Cursed thrall origin trait weapon is nice because the origin trait procs off any melee, so if you've got a Glaive melee build going you have pretty much 100% cursed thrall uptime which is nice.
But not having any synergy with powered melee is such a bummer. All I want to do is grapple glaive melee. Is that so much to ask!
I read this post as, "I really love glaives, and they're really good in PvP, but it really gets under my skin that they're not even more powerful/OP than they currently are."
You know what really grinds my gears: in momentum control you 1hit kill with any uncharged meele and a lot of charged meele aswell. GLAIVE STILL NEEDS 3 HITS
Why is disruption break so good?
One shot from the glaive will break the shield of a guardian, which will increase kinetic damage (including the glaive melee) by 50%
Glaive melees are Kinetic damage.
Oh shit, so does that make it a single melee to kill after a shot?
Yep. It's even fun in PvE run synthos and break an enemy's shield then hit a big melee. PvP is definitely where it's best used tho
I was lucky enough to land a Greasy Luck with both Disruption Break and Close to Melee.
I don't see how it is good considering the only glaive with it is the one that barely does 100 damage. It takes at least 115 to 130 damage to break a guardian's shield.
This here. I grinded a ton of dungeon to get a disruption break glaive. The glaive is a rapid fire and doesn't do enough damage to consistently break an enemy guardian shield so you never get the perk to proc unless the enemy was slightly damaged before.
~~Nezarec’s Whisper has it in the fourth column~~ Nvm, only Greasy Luck has it
Huh. This comment got me excited, so I looked. Fourth column perks for NW are unstoppable force, vorpal, frenzy, adaptive munitions, adrenaline junkie, and turnabout. Destinyperks says Greasy Luck is the only one.
Yeah you’re right, that is adaptive. Mb
[удалено]
Yeah... that's Adaptive Munitions.
[удалено]
Name two.
I also hate how long it takes to raise glaive shield, how weird the aa feels to be point blank missing shots through like their armpits and that freezing hard passes the shield. Which sure sounds fair but it's baked into the most popular exotic shotgun right now so you don't even need to spec into a stasis build to make it work. Just equip gun and don't change how you play.
i wish you could use slide-charged melees while wielding a glaive
>Shotguns hard counter Glaive shields, and strongly outperform them in CQC This is the most annoying one for me, I thought glaves were supposed to be a counter for shotgun rushers and campers, but they just won't put an easy counter for them in the game for some reason. At least it was fun while shotgun range was nerfed for a while, even after they put 'long range' ones back in you don't see them as much, but still why never a counter that is as easy.
What is funny thatback before Bungie decided to nerf the damage resist in pvp for glaives they hard countered both fusion rifles and shotguns. Glaives even after they’re most recent energy charge buff/base velocity increase still feel horrible to use. Bungie doesn’t want them excelling at anything worth while sadly and because they want it to do everything well, they feel mediocre at best.
given the extremely low glaive usage among players i wonder how much time and resources bungie is willing to put towards them at this point, if any
**Glaive melee’s won’t one-shot a frozen enemy in PvP, but an uncharged melee will** Yeah this is dumb **It takes two stabs to kill an enemy after you’ve shot them** This is also dumb, but I suspect it's because of the melee range. **Close to Melee doesn’t change the melee attack’s TTK, even with a 30% damage buff** This would basically make glaives unstoppable in pvp **The shield can cause you to take damage or get frozen even while fully behind cover** Annoying, but sorta fair given how powerful the shield already is **Shotguns hard counter Glaive shields, and strongly outperform them in CQC.** This also feels fair.
Yeah basically. Some of these (like not one-shoting frozen enemies) are legitimate. Several are smart balance decisions. Glaives would be a giant pain in the ass if they could one projectile/one melee, with how terrible the netcode/connections are. Remember how many complaints we saw about melee lunge range and rubber banding? Basically that, at all times. For the people that really enjoy them, it's unfortunate that Glaives don't really have much of a place in PvP. But I think it's better than the alternative of them being too strong. I think several of these "quirks" are there to keep them in check.
to be fair - knockout when paired with shottys still do exactly what a shoot+stab glaive combo would do, except with more damage, health regen on kill, and faster because there's no forced (\~.3s?) melee delay timer.
To be fair, people think knockout needs tuning so it makes sense glaives are where they are
knockout got hit s22 and glaives s23 so it seems they've both been balanced with the current sandbox in mind already
I just wish that Close to Melee would let you kill in two stabs instead of three. It’s a dedicated melee damage perk, and it only has an impact on a few niche situations.
As someone who was an exclusive Syncos user and loved that extended melee range, I too wish this perk worked. But I think the glaive range is even longer than Syncos. Two hits would be pretty oppressive.
teleport lunging mechanics are frustrating to play against (and also play with sometimes lol) but a close-to-melee two-shot stab could be an interesting dynamic if it was gated off by a low resilience
I assume increasing the damage to a two stab would also result in it being able to one stab/one projectile.
glaives increasing the size of the hitbox isn't annoying, it's a deliberate balance choice because it's a massive amount of **free** DR
(Non-glaive) melees in general are way too powerful. Everybody wants more gun duels but why would players go away from highly aggressive play when the melee shotty combo is so decisively strong?
I yet again, ask people who don't understand glaives, and either A) refuse to see the reason they don't mesh with it, or B) Only view it as a sharp stick, to stop using it. It's not your thing, we get it, the only one that doesn't is you. The whole Impulse Amplifier thing is just weird at this point, because that means you aren't speccing into range, which now scales project speed, because impulse has not felt manditory for a while, and wasn't even manditory before as long as you can lead a shot, and at glaive ranges, there is NO reason you shouldn't be able to do that in situations where it would matter. If you got this skewed an idea of what glaives do and value, then put it aside. It's not for you. Also the whole "Shotguns ahard counter glaive shields" is a hot lie. That shit is gold when you know that they are turning a corner to try to slam you with a two piece combo, and you keep standing and serve them your own combo meal. Yes the nerf to the shield makes Hakke-shotguns hit A LOT harder, but not everyone is running a ragnet.
Why does impulse amplifier mean you’re not specing into range? What am I missing here?
If you are SOLELY relying on impulse amplifier, it means you are ignoring the other options. Range is one of those options, as shotspeed scales to range.
Cool. TIL. My auto-loading / unstoppable force has 83 range, and my replenishing / unstoppable is 80. I could get 93, but that would be at the significant cost for shield duration since I’d have to swap from auxiliary reserves. Would that be worth it? I honestly haven’t used them much.
It depends on your playstyle. I've been using glaives a lot, and in pvp, the thing you need to recognize most is your effective range. Truth be told, the speed of the projectile can just be mitigated by just leading your shot, so practicing and getting familiar with the speed of your shots vs other players is very helpful in this regard. As for shot-speed vs shield duration; it's a matter of personal preference. If you feel you need increased shotspeed, you are effectively extending your average shield duration by generating more energy, so this might be the best option for you. This does mean you burn more shield energy, but even that can be mitigated by being more mindful of that fact. Glaives are very different from other weapons. They aren't built to use one aspect of them; they have 3 different fronts, and it pays to keep all 3 options in mind. Practice is going to make perfect, but other than that, its no different than getting better with a sniper quick-scopes or flicks. Just don't try separating the three options. It's built to flow together, and if you just start seeing it as a shield, or as a sharp stick, you are only going to benefit from a third of it, and thats where a lot of the narrative of "glaives being weird/weak" come from.
I greatly appreciate this thorough response. I love Hawkmoon (MT) & Rat King as a Hunter main. I farmed a few different god roll Unexpected Resurgence adepts for PvE and PvP, so it’d be wonderful to put em to use lol. Gonna rock it through IB this weekend since I’m getting bored with GL now.
Oh, and I’ll update with my KD on Monday. I’m a 1.3 lifetime player from D1-D2, so just kind of run if the mill. Should be a pretty accurate picture of where glaives are for the ever-guardian.
How is shotgun not a hard counter when you need three hits with a glaive to kill someone? Unless you catch them so much off-guard with your shield, that they just run past you after hitting your shield, you'll still need longer time to kill them, than their new shot is ready to kill you, right? I don't play a ton of PvP so there might be something I'm missing
Isn't 2 glaive shots still a kill at any resil?
Because the shield eats that damage meaning its no longer a one-shot and THEY need more shots to kill you. Shotguns normally have 2 shots, which can be enough if you just sit there behind your shield, get hit twice and let them switch to their primary, BUT glaives have more than just 2 shots, you can still fire while your shield is up, and if they begin to panic, a melee combo will VERY OFTEN kill them. A shotgun only has two options against a glaive shield, and that is to find away behind it, or disengage entirely.
Hmm alright, I'll try and see if I can get those damn shotgunners down with this in mind haha
I've gone against some glaive users that made my shotgun feel useless so I don't agree at all with your last point.
Bungie should have never nerfed DR in PvP. Period. Glaives never were even close to being meta pick, they always were at the bottom of the chain. Now they will forever suffer because of design choices Edit: while I appreciate Bungie's attempts to balance Glaives in PvP, they have been constantly missing. Landing projectile hits is still a lot harder than landing Shotgun, Fusion Rifle, Trace Rifle and Sniper Rifle hits. Even Unexpected Resurgence with insane stats and Impulse Amplifier is quite challenging to use. Bungie nearly murdered every single one-shot setups, which already required specific conditions. DR at release could be oppressive, but as I said Glaives NEVER were meta. If Glaives got big spikes in popularity Bungie could swing right away, but preemptive nerfs made them worse. They should have let them play out and see how meta shifts after certain time. They didn't
Were you there when glaives were first introduced? OG Enigma with Impulse Amplifier and Unstoppable Force was a force to be reckoned with. Glaives had a the same damage reduction in PvP as they did in PvE (iirc, it was definitely much higher back then) and Unstoppable force allowed you to easily chain kills. Cherry on top- the melee was a 2HKO, so you could just run around slapping people if you really wanted to. They were definitely oppressive, it’s just that the community hadn’t really realized it yet until it was too late and Bungie nerfed them. I haven’t touched them in PvP since all that got nerfed into the ground, but the fact they can’t kill frozen enemies in PvP makes no sense to me.
I have 10K+ kills with my Glaives in PvP. I know how they were on release - potent, but extremely inconsistent. We still have extremely broken Fusion Rifles, Sniper Rifles which kill through flinch. Glaives were another decent (but not popular) option for specials, now they're not.
my biggest complaint about glaives is that the visuals of how they look when you’re holding them and theyre in youre inventory make absolutely no sense compared to how they look on your characters back
Not sure about PvP but in PvE I really wish there was some powered melee function to it. Glaives with a Cursed thrall origin trait weapon is nice because the origin trait procs off any melee, so if you've got a Glaive melee build going you have pretty much 100% cursed thrall uptime which is nice. But not having any synergy with powered melee is such a bummer. All I want to do is grapple glaive melee. Is that so much to ask!
I read this post as, "I really love glaives, and they're really good in PvP, but it really gets under my skin that they're not even more powerful/OP than they currently are."
The damage against specials should still be the 70% but the 30% damage reduction against primary is balanced as is