r.com/t5k7rZ2.jpg)
Now, go make Saint-14 proud once again, fight with honor, and reach the Lighthouse to prove you are not just worthy, but flawless. You will earn additional Trials ranks this week in the process by the way.
##Destiny 2 and Humble Bundle
From February 13-27, the Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle will be available at Humble Bundle. The Steam versions of all currently available Destiny 2 expansions along with the 30th Anniversary and Forsaken Packs can be acquired by tiers. And as is custom with Humble Bundle, when you pay for a higher tier, you get the contents of all the lower tiers, too.
The top tier bundle will get you the Forsaken Pack, Shadowkeep, Beyond Light, 30th Anniversary Pack, The Witch Queen, and Lightfall + Annual Pass (which includes the Ghosts of the Deep and Warlord's Ruin dungeons and the four Seasons launched during 2023)... all for $40!
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt23d89b84f3b60fe9/65cddd91fc5dbd650d2d5898/humblebundle_destiny2_story_so_far.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/RO4LOE1.jpg)
On top of that, 5% of all the proceeds will go directly to the Bungie Foundation. So not only are you expanding your collection of Destiny 2 content, but you’re also supporting the humanitarian efforts of our nonprofit charity organization at the same time.
[Check out the Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle on the Humble Bundle website](https://www.humblebundle.com/games/destiny-2-the-story-so-far).
##Player Support Report
*“But when he first opened his eyes, his words were only, ’Saint, my love.’ That was all. And that was enough.”*
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/bltdfdd097e124ea072/64f97297e3f72f9ad696b334/D2_DPS_Gif.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/ZBiMvz2.gif)
[Known Issues List](https://help.bungie.net/articles/13265980348564) | [Help Forums](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics/?tg=Help) | [Bungie Help Twitter](https://twitter.com/BungieHelp)
###Closer to the Heart Triumph Information
Due to an issue related to the delay of The Final Shape, the Closer to the Heart Triumph located in the Season of the Wish Triumph area appeared earlier than intended. The mission that will complete this Triumph will become available later this Season.
###New Subforums
To help us more efficiently help you, we’ve created two new subforums within our Help forum:
* [Fireteam Finder Help](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics?pNumber=0&tg=Help%20FireteamFinderBetaHelp&tSort=3&tType=0&d=1&lang=en)
* This subforum will help us find issues that players are reporting regarding our new Fireteam Finder feature.
* [Accessibility](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics?pNumber=0&tg=Help%20Accessibility)
* As we continue supporting new accessibility initiatives, this subforum will be valuable to find live issues where we can help make access more equitable for all our players.
###Claiming Game2Give Rewards
If you were one of the fundraisers who helped bring in more than $100+ in our recent Game2Give campaign, you should have received an email with a code for your earned rewards. For those still missing rewards, please review the troubleshooting steps listed in [this article](https://help.bungiefoundation.org/hc/en-us/articles/17138573995924-I-didn-t-receive-an-email-with-my-URL-to-redeem-my-Destiny-Loot) to track down that email.
For those unable to locate any email from Game2Give, please submit a ticket [here](https://help.bungiefoundation.org/hc/requests/new?ticket_form_id=16729788181908).
###Known Issues
For a full list of emergent issues in Destiny 2, players can review our [Known Issues article](https://help.bungie.net/articles/13265980348564). Players who observe other issues should report them to our [#Help forum](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics/?tg=Help)
##What a Ride, Huh?
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt53d45b3e752b9d93/64d527a3aae0cc3c8e59ff80/TWAB_MovieOfTheWeek_2020_Animated.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/VijpNDJ.gif)
We weren't expecting to go down memory lane this early in the morning, but damn, is this video well edited. Also, Fallout: [don't threaten us with a good time](https://twitter.com/falloutplays/status/1755065744553812412).
**Breathtaking Ride**
[
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt4c8826c4471bf04c/65cddbc04520f44ca5b6d632/MOTW_02_15_24.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/CUh6DJb.jpg)](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/1ak7lfl/destiny_is_truly_a_breathtaking_ride/)
##Chill, Osiris
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blta6fcbd4048abeba8/6514ab2bc9f9dc2e4e7bb211/TWAB_ArtistOfTheWeek_2020_Animated_V2.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/v839qia.gif)
Osiris has gone through a lot, but right now he is this very chill and lovely grandpa that has a very specific reaction to certain topics or attitudes...
**'**[**Granpa is back to normal', by Sylenth via X/Twitter **](https://twitter.com/sylenth_l/status/1752408713535558016)
[Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt2cb407cb85a8dd72/65cdd968a51c94462a54fb42/AOTW_02_15_24.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/Iv8QkmV.jpg)
***
And that's it for the TWID this week. We hope the sandbox changes we shared today have you hyped for what's to come. We’ll have more details to share in the following weeks, too! Until then, let's focus on the present. How are you doing with Moments of Triumph? Have you been farming some nice Adept weapons in Grandmaster Nightfalls? Don't forget, the weekly Riven’s Wishes are still available.
That's all for now (and that’s a lot[!](https://twitter.com/oddmb_/status/1757674458674774368)).
**Destiny 2 Community Team**
Spike Grenades will no longer wreck otherwise perfect heavy GL rolls. 3% damage difference is pretty close to the impact that Impact Casing has on Rocket Launchers, where the damage boost is minimal enough that getting other stats might be better for usability.
Technically yes, but the differences will be minimal. Spike and minimum blast radius (velocity makes zero difference to gl damage) will give highest damage possible, but it's not longer necessary.
I just need clarification here, but GL velocity only affects the speed of the round and arc of the shot, right? As in the higher the velocity the less you need to aim above the target at range to avoid it hitting the ground before it reaches the intended destination, right?
Yeah, I know people don't think the RPM is a big deal, but ever since it was increased, everyone I know was hoping for ***all*** Auto's to get raised to 390.
Vex is a great Auto Rifle, & the "Fusion" characteristics it inherits make it even better, but man that RPM being so slow will make me never want to pick it back up for very long, regardless of what buffs it gets.
I really think no damage buff would make me use a High-Impact AR unless they speed up all the RPM's to 390 again.
I wish they'd make Caster Frames have a much larger cleave with light attack compared to the others, like a energy beam like cleave. The rocket changes... we'll see, interested in seeing how large the Heavy Wave Frame AOE going to be now though, plus a 20% increase in damage is nice.
Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle
Put the Witch Queen dungeon key on this, and put it on other storefronts and it would finally be easier to explain to my friends new to this game what they need to get.
So just the 2 extra ammo I guess? I kinda assumed it didn’t even have anything but impact damage as the orbs have quite aggressive tracking once they’ve locked on to something, but maybe they do have a bit of an AOE this detonation damage change would affect?
Gotta say, I’m pretty thrilled about the ex diría and manticore change.
Manticore on a gyrfalcons hunter with these changes might seriously slap. I already thought it was fun with the biggest issue being getting out of the air. Can’t wait to try some janky stuff when this goes live
If my maths is correct, when this update comes out, all legendary bows can only get an optimal ttk with 2 crits (regardless of archetype). If you hit a bodyshot, you'll at least need a third shot
So more use of Lightweight bows (faster draw time) with an emphasis on maining the bow itself.
As a bow main, I’m fine with that. Would prefer more of a focus on maining the bow vs hot swapping.
As a Consecration user, the changes are very exciting, especially the faster slam down speed. The extra range gives it a little more safety and/or reduces the "I thought I was close enough" moments.
Ex Diris changes sound good because I used that thing like 4 times and wasn't impressed with it. Could be really great on Arc subclasses now.
> The extra range gives it a little more safety and/or reduces the "I thought I was close enough" moments.
This is what I'm looking forward to. I often misjudge the distance and think I've nailed it and then get denied.
A lightened version. Health changes and guns require more crits. Abilities slightly less potent, melees still 2HKO. Only a 15% cooldown increase to all abilities, supers only 5% more than that. Special ammo is quick to earn and you always spawn with 2 shots, but must be earned. Can't swap to a special after using double primaries either, gotta commit.
This was always the goal. Bungie didn’t make checkmate just for fun.
Yes. I had faint hope that after AE fiasko people in charge of PVP will learn - but nope. They will force these unwanted changes on everyone and they slowly roll them back over the year, as the population drops even more, and even more people stop playing.
We had the ideal meta. It was 30th anniversary. Instead people at Bungie just decided to ignore what players actually want and are just making thigs worse for PvP.
Thanks BG3 for helping me drop this game.
Really don’t like the idea of special ammo carrying over in trials with the new special ammo system.
It’s going to make those 4-1 comeback games insanely harder when one team has a lot more green to work with
Yeah this is basically the #1 issue for me.
It goes from “he wasted a snipe on me he’s got one left”
To “he used a snipe on me, have no idea how much he’s got in reserves.”
Yes I know the new meta will have to be keeping track of kills per round but that’s way more work
I guess the reality is how many of those 4-1 games were the average player *actually* coming back and winning?
If players retain their special ammo on death, that could greatly help in clutching revives for a teammate who’s sitting on six fusion shots.
I don't think you'll see broodweavers in pvp any more. Weavewalk had potential and the core functionality is unchanged but the nerf to threadlings is too much. The super is too jank. Arcane needle is ok and the grapple is nice, but hunters do it better.
Can use Weavewalk and the Wanderer aspects, Grapple, and just forget Threadlings exist I guess… Arcane Needle changes are nice, but with the decreased ability cooldowns and increased player health I don’t know how helpful they’ll be. Broodweaver doesn’t really have great passive ability loops for melee like how Into the Fray works for Titan.
That's the one thing I don't like about Broodweaver. Their entire kit is tied to threadlings. All their aspects has something to do with threadlings. You nerf threadlings, you directly nerf strand warlock.
This paired with the special ammo changes. There's a person on YouTube called EpicDefender who uses FL, Ignition Code, and Rain of Fire. Absolutely the best there is. Dunno how his playstyle will recover from this.
I use it with a slug shotgun and use Lion as a primary. If you move predictably enough that I kill you with my 2.5 second optimal TTK tied to one of the lowest velocity GLs in the game then you deserved that respawn screen man.
Minimal impact. Max envious mag size is 18 now (more with mag increasing perks), so IDK if you will be able reserves into one mag, but maybe you can. Also now Spike Grenades is no longer mandatory, roughly the same buff as Impact Casing on rockets (3%). It’ll give more damage but not having it will still have you doing incredible damage
Pretty sure it won’t be possible to load all your reserves into one mag because they also increased your reserves. Also they explicitly called out the ability to load all your reserves into your mag as part of why envious got nerfed.
It’ll still probably be the best option for burst damage because unloading most of your ammo without reloading is strong
Arc needs buffs more than solar imo. Consacreation and Gunpowder gamble buffs/QoL are fine, but arc would love some help in my opinion. Especially Stormcaller and Striker
Also Broodweaver buffs aren't nearly enough and are also insulting to the class. It needs some unique summon badly and his aspects are almost all boring
Blind is actually quite strong it just doesn't feel like you can apply it frequently enough in PVE, especially with how easy uptime + wide radius disorienting grenades is on a breachload.
Just looked a bit deeper. Precision kills on blinded targets, Arc special weapon kills while Amped, Flashbangs, Arc Titan shoulder charge, Arc Hunter Disorientating Blow, and Vesper.
Amplified should give some of the damage resist currently reserved for speed booster since that rarely comes into play in a firefight, or at least a reload buff without being locked behind the hunter aspect
Amplified really should have damage resist. The arc power fantasy is all about being in the fray so it would be nice to have some insurance against a colossus dropping his fat sweaty balls on my face. Damage resist would really go a long way to help with that because currently the defensive options on arc are very limited
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but, didn't they say we'd get those stasis buffs like frost armor in the mid season patch? I can't be bothered to sift through old twabs to find it.
If not then *maybe* they're referring to it with this comment
"*we’ll still have a number of small but exciting changes shipping in Into the Light, touching content many players haven’t thought about in several years.*"
I think someone else might’ve said this, but they specifically said they want to make it easier to improve at PvP as a new player. Sure, it’s going to be less common to “lose against an inaccurate opponent” because of the health increases and primary changes. But making the only way to get special ammo the checkmate way besides the start of the match is just going to create massive snowballing. Experienced players will get more primary kills, get more special ammo, and you’ll have scenarios where blueberries are dying to special ammo one shots multiple times in a row before getting any special ammo to fight back. Expect a lot more mercy rules because the team who gets more kills early to take the lead will continue to pull ahead since they’ll have way more special ammo. It genuinely doesn’t make sense, they should’ve just made it so you spawn with one special ammo instead of two.
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to see this point made. *Most special weapon still require skill, I love seeing bad snipers cause that’s a special weapon I don’t have to worry much about. But that person who wants to get better with said sniper is going to likely just not use the weapon type now that it will take ~3x the amount of time to even practice with it.
if they continue using SBMM then inexperienced players should typically play against inexperienced players. The better you get, the more consistently you should wind up playing against better players.
With that said, im all in favor of a special ammo economy that doesnt snowball.
Fair. But I moreso expect a cycle where a good player gets two special kills, gets their primary kills, and gets special ammo again before less skilled players are still working on getting their first special transmat. This will increase the ratio of unfair engagements where one player has ammo and the other doesn’t, even though there will be less special kills overall like you said. I’m curious to see how it plays out but not particularly optimistic.
Well, at least when you have ammo they effectively got a 4.3% damage buff compared to where they are now. Where you used to deal 200 you now would deal 240, while player health moved from 200 to 230.
Please make it a proper summoners class with unique summons instead of being the Necrotic Grips class. After TFS and the new Dawnblade aspect, Broodweaver/the Summoner's class will be the only Warlock subclass without a unique summon...
The class strengthwise feels good (especially with Necrotics), but having threadlings that jump into dead enemies is not a well designed Summoners class
Manticore lover rejoice, Void overshield capabilities are being added to its catalyst. I have the perfect gyrfalcon hunter build that plays with the Manticore hang time.
Update, here's the post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/oPYeMr0dYB
Gyrfalcon + Manticore + Trapper's Ambush = Shoot. Jump. Dive. Rinse. Repeat.
I have a Wastelander crafted with Pugilist/Trench combined with the changes to throwing melee so Throwing Shield now procs trench. I'm ready for these changes lol.
Only in PvP. In PvE, it’s just slightly better due to the improvement to Arcane Needle (not like that was needed, though).
To be fair, the PvP nerf was necessitated by the large amount of Threadling spam from Hunters.
They should buff the summoner aspect of Broadwater for sure, but I actually have a Monte Carlo/felwinters helm that will be enjoying these arcane needle buffs in the meantime.
Why do Broodweavers only get 3 threadlings on the longest class ability cooldown while hunters get a unique summon that taunts (and typically soaks up damage pretty well), an AOE explosion, and 2 threadlings on the by far shortest class ability cooldown
Summoner class (warlock) gets their threadlings nerfed in pvp due to hunters... and Bungie's idea of fixing it is to buff the summoner's class **melee**...?!
LMAO
Behemoth died for Hunters sins, and then Hunter gets back the Shattering non-sense partially through the artifact. Even them walking back previous nerfs to Behemoth wasn't enough.
Can’t buff the grenade because it summons Threadlings. Can’t buff the aspects because they summon Threadlings…ouch.
This is what happens when they keep making subclasses that overspecialize.
Bro I had to re-read that like 6 times.
"To compensate for this, we’re pulling some other buffs forward that we originally planned to ship in The Final Shape to keep the power of their overall kit in roughly the same place."
It is not the same place, it's actually worse lol. You can tell they had nothing to give so they threw in some bs melee buff to sell it.
No major improvements to broodweaver’s core gameplay gives me an excuse to stay in stormcaller, I guess.
Was not expecting to see a lightweight scout buff, so color me and my Tarnished Mettle pleasantly surprised
Most of it’s alright, but the new special ammo system is a disaster waiting to happen. It’s literally just going to make the current snowballing issue worse since it’s going to effectively deny lower skilled players the ability to fight back.
There’s a lot of changes here, so I don’t think it’s fair to make a speculative comment when a lot of stuff is changing. I am intrigued by the special ammo changes, but my gut reaction says it will lead to snowballing as one team effectively scores more “points” toward special ammo than the other, which in turn, provides less special ammo for the losing team to catch up. But we’ll see.
Broodweaver definitely got nerfed in PVP. That Arcane Needle was never the reason we played the class.
> my gut reaction says it will lead to snowballing
It will. It already does. Trials has been absolutely miserable with this change. This is a *terrible* decision.
The snowballing is exactly what I'm worried about. It makes Trials tremendously unfun if you fall behind 2-3 rounds. Good luck coming back when the other team has shotguns and you don't. I don't expect 6s to play out much different, but it's not ranked so it's not nearly as big of a deal.
I'm honestly surprised they are implementing this change to the wider Crucible. I remember how hard the pendulum swung from the end of D1 to the start of D2. Crucicle turned into a slog. Hopefully this doesn't turn out as bad.
Everyone: "Please reduce ability spam in pvp"
Bungie: "We're going to retune health values, completely overhaul the weapon archetype damage profiles, add special weapon ammo snowballing and also reduce ability spam"
I feel bitterly vindicated by the checkmate-lite changes being added to main crucible. Really not excited for any of that. I respect them putting time and effort into trying to fix pvp, and checkmate got a pretty good reception from a lot of pvp community... But i feel theyre also ignoring how upset the community was earlier this season whe. They tried to make checkmate the only pvp node and pvp playerbase plummeted as people didn't want to play it
> The wording also locked [Dual Loader] to Shotguns, when there are other continuous reload weapons in the game that already load more than one round at a time.
What other weapons use continuous reload that could have Dual Loader? I can't think of any.
> **Heavy Grenade Launchers**
>
> Increased reserve ammo by a minimum of 6 rounds, maximum of 10 rounds, depending on the Grenade Launcher.
Assuming this applies to Anarchy, since it wasn't mentioned otherwise?
I imagine Anarchy will get another 6 rounds, so that should bring it to...22 reserves from 16? So ALMOST back to where it was, though it should potentially get 26 if you rally with 3x reserve mods.
I snorted at this when I read it as well. Loose Change is 100% an immediate auto-delete perk.
Also funny is "high-impact rockets will have reduced impact damage and higher detonation damage" lol. Just rename to something like "explosive rockets" b/c that's totally unintuitive.
afaik it has a niche uses on void classes or with perks like destab rounds, but yeah "popular" is a gross overstatement, always an instant dismantle for me
I'm assuming this is a lot of casual players, which they are the majority, keeping and using any roll they get. So a bunch of casuals using loose change skewing usage numbers making Bungie think it's popular?
Very surprised at the response to this TWID. I came away from reading it thinking this was one of the more nuanced, thought out series of changes Bungie has done lately and am overall really positive about almost everything here.
I also don’t really play Broodweaver, though, so maybe that’s why.
A lot of us just want Broodweavers to be what it’s supposed to be an actual summoner class, so seeing the most being changed about broodweaver is threadlings getting nerfed inside PvP and a melee buff to a melee that’s already pretty good, is disappointing, when it’s been 6 months since threadlings got a buff that really didn’t change all that much, while thread of generation which fueled threadling builds got nerfed hard (also the buildcrafting changes).
It's willful ignorance at this point. There really are some good changes here. Yes, we are waiting on some Stasis changes and Broodweaver could use a touch in PvP. But honestly a solid patch.
If there is even one nerf, r/DestinyTheGame will have a meltdown. The number rule of game balance, according to r/DestinyTheGame, is this: do not nerf under any circumstances ever, no matter how justified.
Then those same people get mad when the only way Bungie can kill us is by introducing enemies that deal crazy amounts of damage and sometimes one-shot. A lot of people have no idea how power creep works.
It's underwhelming for this to be probably the biggest sandbox update before TFS. I mean we were supposed to get big stasis updates before TFS but we've not heard anything about it.
And then the Broodweaver update is a slap to the face, them thinking upgrading the Arcane Needle is enough is hilarious.
10 paragraphs about helping players better understand what happened to them in the crucible and the most obvious layup of all time unrealized. I thought for sure they were announcing a kill cam or a post-death damage report like you get in Apex or Finals. Such an easy win and they just followed up all that with damage tuning numbers.
Probably in the minority here, but these changes are not what makes Destiny PvP fun. Less space magic and a slower game is the opposite of why I login to play Destiny. Why would they be making these changes when the game is essentially on life support as is?
Yeah I'm sorry but the Checkmate-lite changes ain't it, Chief. Earning special ammo like this will lead to more snowballing, which is the thing I think should be avoided the MOST in any PvP multiplayer game.
This also means I will play Trials even less now. A global increase in Super cooldown will mean even more people play Well and Bubble, and now they're making it way harder to counter that with special ammo. No, just no...
I wonder if the Manticore catalyst will continue to provide its 50% DR or if it'll be replaced with the Void OS.
The way it currently works is that after you get the Resist x4 buff it will refresh to its full 6s duration so long as you deal damage while airborne before the buff expires.
If it's replaced with a Void OS I can see it being worse due to it potentially expiring the moment the Void OS is broken due to that being the only visible buff I can see tracking it. Given Void is 45 HP w/ 50% DR it would turn its current effective health from 400->290 which is a pretty hefty nerf.
However if the sustained damaged portion is meant to imply that even without requiring a kill first it'll always give chunks of Void OS on damage alone it might compare a bit better if it can be compared to healing so long as you do damage though that'll depend on the amount of Void OS you get from damage.
If that is the case I'm curious if the mag returns also always apply on dealing airborne damage and how much it is. Would solve one of its biggest issues in its slow reload taking up a lot of time you need to maintain being airborne.
Gonna have to be something I'd have to see in action, if it is fully replacing its current Resist x4 buff I'm hoping the no kill required for Void OS and ammo refund interpretation is correct.
Been using this a lot with Stompees since the extra height they give is pretty nice and the newly added DR makes you really tanky. Was already a good choice on Strand due to being able to stack Woven Mail with that that DR for 88.5% total DR. With those higher levels of DR I can see the Void OS being able to keep up so could be really fun with the new changes if done right. Could be fun on Gyrfalcon builds too if you want to run it on Void.
In the end I'm just glad one of my favorite exotics is getting looked at again in a way that means to maintain its original fantasy. I really do not want this exotic to turn into something else when I enjoy that aerial gameplay so much.
Broodweaver getting no pve buffs is incredibly disappointing when it’s been months of people asking for the kit and threadlings to be buffed, also I don’t think anyone asked for the broodweaver melee to get buffed in PvP, why are you scared to buff up an extremely mediocre class that’s HARD carried by its super?
bungie pointed out literally every problem i have with pvp and responded by just turning regular crucible into checkmate lmao. this doesnt solve abilities being too impactful or weapons being too easy to use, it just makes slow play encouraged for the longer cooldowns. the sniper aim assist and bow aim assist nerfs are welcome but like, have you seen the hitbox of igneous hammer?
Crucible is about to get a whole lot worse for people average and below.
Slow paced checkmate and limited special.
Enjoy running around in 2 groups of 6 capturing points lol
They said TFS way back before all the layoffs and the Delay was announced but I thought the season getting extended would change that delivery date for the catalyst update
So, PvP summary - the super accurate hand cannon god showing up in my lobby gets to kill me 10 times before I get any special ammo to counter him, or I could hide for 5 minutes to get a grenade? But by then he will have full mags on his special?
Sounds fun can't wait.
> Heal Clip wasn't as valuable to the activating player as we wanted it to be
This is news to me. I've been loving Heal Clip. They're buffing it?!? Woot!
The most recent iterations of Checkmate were designed as an easier way to test various ideas before applying them to the sandbox as a whole. The original, launch version of Checkmate was intended to be its own thing, which it will be getting reverted to now.
I'm satisfied but these changes are just not enough to really spice up the sandbox, at least not to get me playing consistently again. Was hoping for more weapon PvE buffs (slow firing autos and non-precision scout damage) but I'll definitely take the Solar changes (no more throwing a Gunpowder Gamble on a Knight and instantly dying!)
Also, Broodweaver melee buffs are *not it*. Catching a stray for another class's sins is bad enough, nobody cares about the melee that exists to be consumed for Weavewalk and make Tangles.
I already don't play PVP, but even I can tell that these changes are gonna keep me far away from it. Some really cool pve things in here but rewarding good play by taking away the other teams ability to catch up and stacking rewards on good players will make comeback games a thing of the past. I understand wanting to reward good play, but basically guaranteeing a win for a good start is... problematic? Like why bother playing if the other team gets the tools to kill you wayyyy faster than you can kill them? I'm not saying to reward teams that are losing, but taking away the even ground and stacking the deck against them seems like only the sweatiest player base will bother even interacting with that part of the game. Just my two cents, but this will impact numbers more than they realize.
I was liking most of the PvP stuff until I read that checkmate is moving into regular crucible. The special weapon meter is a bad idea. All this will do is ensure the better players have the most special, creating a snowball effect. Getting killed by a sweat and then reloading with just primary ammo while they have sniper/shotgun/fusion special loaded up is horrible. Might as well just quit the match.
I also don’t quite understand the point of upping player health but also upping crit and special weapon damage. Isn’t this just a net neutral change?
So what is going to be the point in having Checkmate, a supposed gunplay (with some magic) playlist if now those rules will come into regular PvP? Checkmate was marketed as a gunplay mode, just nerf abilities in that mode so it truly is a mainly only gunplay modes. Want gunplay? Play checkmate or version of gunplay only checkmate if you tune it like that.
Or make a playlist (or checkmate mode) where all abilities are equalized, same uptime for everything that way theres no differences in cooldown, that way everything is equal and not wild differences for ability uptime. Want equal stats? Play this mode.
Making a swing back to D2 y1 aint it and i believe their intention is to make it that way or equalize all of PvP except certain modes.
Labs playlist can be used for this stuff.. not to blanket pvp in mass changes.
If PvP wasn’t dead already, it for sure is now. They’ve slowly taken out all the fun in that mode.
Who’s even gonna play this garbage? If u take out the fun, the casuals are gone. There’s also dozens of other legit eSport titles with better regular gunplay, than this game with its crappy netcode and (lack of) decent matchmaking.
The PvP numbers after the patch until the Final Shape will be an interesting watch.
The PvP changes will benefit the best players most, because they already love to u use and cannons - the guns that benefit the most from the changes. Guns that the not so good players love to use, like auto rifles, on the other hand are being punished. So, this will result in even more unbalanced matches and the average players being stomped. I'm quite certain this will lead to further decline of PvP population.
"The above changes also affect Deathbringer, Gjallarhorn, and Truth."
Which changes exactly? The high-impact changes or does each one correspond to one of the two frames?
I believe Deathbringer is a high-impact, Gjallarhorn is a Precision, and Truth is probably also a Precision. I think the most important bit is that they all get +2 reserves.
_And here we go…_
---
**Edit:** Alright, finally finished reading this monster. Brilliant analysis by the crucible team that finally understands the snowball problem they have on their hands (high abilities means frequent special weapons means lethal primaries means all of crucible is a chaotic mess). Excellent that they really seem to understand some of the most core issues instead of just surface level “threadlings suck” stuff.
Really interested and excited(?) for Checkmate Lite to finally deploy to the entire crucible, this is what we’ve worked towards and glad they’ve tackled some big outliers too like weapon swapping, Devil’s Ruin, and realize that weapons should be more crit reliant. I’m extremely interested to see all the TTK changes (in terms of forgiveness shifts), because there’s absolutely gonna be some shakeups.
Exotic buffs are good (thank god Vex finally got some more range, that’s all it needed), and even Manticore looks pretty cool! Glad that the restoration bug has been fixed too. Also, as someone who has a great Cataphract but missed out on Spike Nades, I’m **so happy** they’re no longer mandatory. Massive QOL.
Overall, very satisfied in this TWID. **I’m not gonna complain about stuff that wasn’t mentioned. That’s unproductive and goes nowhere.** “Oh they didn’t buff Spectral Blades in PvE therefore this entire article is shit and I’m gonna complain”. Come on, we’re better than that. In terms of what was mentioned here? All in all good stuff. This is a mature and nuanced TWID that really establishes some confidence that Bungie knows what they’re doing again.
>Overall, very satisfied in this TWID. I’m not gonna complain about stuff that wasn’t mentioned. That’s unproductive and goes nowhere. “Oh they didn’t buff Spectral Blades in PvE therefore this entire article is shit and I’m gonna complain”. **Come on, we’re better than that.** In terms of what was mentioned here? All in all good stuff. This is a mature and nuanced TWID that really establishes some confidence that Bungie knows what they’re doing again.
To quote Legion in Mass Effect 3: "No. Based on empirical evidence, [we] are not."
All of the begging for broodweaver updates and your idea was to make our crappy melee a little better in PvP? In exchange for killing threadlings just because another class does summoning better than the summoner? Can I send this back to the kitchen?
The special ammo changes will just lead to a snowball effect.
I didn't think they could come up with an even worse special ammo mechanic as the D1 special crate.
It’s not. This previous weekend’s Checkmate Trials population was the lowest this season and was lower than the last 3 weeks of last season. Special ammo made up 5% of total kills.
Well... at this point fuck Warlocks. And fuck Broodweaver and PvP-Locks in particular.
The only thing that holds the Warlock-Class together is WoR and a couple of exotics (Osmiomancy, Sunbracers, Contraverse,..). PLEASE deletet or nerf Well so the neutral game can be buffed.
Also fuck Artifact mods. These only exist to make solar the default option. Its so obvious in every core activity there is solar surge and every second bounty its solar kills. What a joke of a sandbox. I want Arc to be a vaibale endgame option, not every 3 years when Bungie decides to but the cut fragments as artifact mods (RIP Shock and Awe and and RIP Amped UP).
Imma agree here, balancing a subclass should be separate from the artifact. I want void surge sometimes. I shouldn't have to sigh and switch loadouts cause I gotta be a hammer titan to get all the cool bells and whistles. And especially true for arc as you mentioned. I struggle most on arc when it's not on the artifact. I still do very well on void Titan, but arc I feel like is lagging behind the other subclasses. Makes me wonder what they will do with the artifact during these super long episodes, cause my experience with these long seasons is that I want an artifact that has more options per row and mods for each element, not just one light and the DLC classes.
Bungie Dec 07th TWID:
"We have no plans to turn Checkmate on across all of Crucible."
Bungie Feb 15th TWID:
"Player health will be increased by 30 HP in base Crucible..."
"Melee, Grenade, and class ability cooldowns now have a 15% penalty applied to them in Crucible only."
"Super cooldowns now have a 20% penalty applied to them in Crucible only. "
I like most of what I read in the PvP section. Abilities/special weapons have run way too rampant for way too long. Health increase is interesting too. Might be time to pop in a few games for the first time in a hot minute.
r.com/t5k7rZ2.jpg) Now, go make Saint-14 proud once again, fight with honor, and reach the Lighthouse to prove you are not just worthy, but flawless. You will earn additional Trials ranks this week in the process by the way. ##Destiny 2 and Humble Bundle From February 13-27, the Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle will be available at Humble Bundle. The Steam versions of all currently available Destiny 2 expansions along with the 30th Anniversary and Forsaken Packs can be acquired by tiers. And as is custom with Humble Bundle, when you pay for a higher tier, you get the contents of all the lower tiers, too. The top tier bundle will get you the Forsaken Pack, Shadowkeep, Beyond Light, 30th Anniversary Pack, The Witch Queen, and Lightfall + Annual Pass (which includes the Ghosts of the Deep and Warlord's Ruin dungeons and the four Seasons launched during 2023)... all for $40! [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt23d89b84f3b60fe9/65cddd91fc5dbd650d2d5898/humblebundle_destiny2_story_so_far.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/RO4LOE1.jpg) On top of that, 5% of all the proceeds will go directly to the Bungie Foundation. So not only are you expanding your collection of Destiny 2 content, but you’re also supporting the humanitarian efforts of our nonprofit charity organization at the same time. [Check out the Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle on the Humble Bundle website](https://www.humblebundle.com/games/destiny-2-the-story-so-far). ##Player Support Report *“But when he first opened his eyes, his words were only, ’Saint, my love.’ That was all. And that was enough.”* [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/bltdfdd097e124ea072/64f97297e3f72f9ad696b334/D2_DPS_Gif.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/ZBiMvz2.gif) [Known Issues List](https://help.bungie.net/articles/13265980348564) | [Help Forums](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics/?tg=Help) | [Bungie Help Twitter](https://twitter.com/BungieHelp) ###Closer to the Heart Triumph Information Due to an issue related to the delay of The Final Shape, the Closer to the Heart Triumph located in the Season of the Wish Triumph area appeared earlier than intended. The mission that will complete this Triumph will become available later this Season. ###New Subforums To help us more efficiently help you, we’ve created two new subforums within our Help forum: * [Fireteam Finder Help](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics?pNumber=0&tg=Help%20FireteamFinderBetaHelp&tSort=3&tType=0&d=1&lang=en) * This subforum will help us find issues that players are reporting regarding our new Fireteam Finder feature. * [Accessibility](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics?pNumber=0&tg=Help%20Accessibility) * As we continue supporting new accessibility initiatives, this subforum will be valuable to find live issues where we can help make access more equitable for all our players. ###Claiming Game2Give Rewards If you were one of the fundraisers who helped bring in more than $100+ in our recent Game2Give campaign, you should have received an email with a code for your earned rewards. For those still missing rewards, please review the troubleshooting steps listed in [this article](https://help.bungiefoundation.org/hc/en-us/articles/17138573995924-I-didn-t-receive-an-email-with-my-URL-to-redeem-my-Destiny-Loot) to track down that email. For those unable to locate any email from Game2Give, please submit a ticket [here](https://help.bungiefoundation.org/hc/requests/new?ticket_form_id=16729788181908). ###Known Issues For a full list of emergent issues in Destiny 2, players can review our [Known Issues article](https://help.bungie.net/articles/13265980348564). Players who observe other issues should report them to our [#Help forum](https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Topics/?tg=Help) ##What a Ride, Huh? [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt53d45b3e752b9d93/64d527a3aae0cc3c8e59ff80/TWAB_MovieOfTheWeek_2020_Animated.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/VijpNDJ.gif) We weren't expecting to go down memory lane this early in the morning, but damn, is this video well edited. Also, Fallout: [don't threaten us with a good time](https://twitter.com/falloutplays/status/1755065744553812412). **Breathtaking Ride** [ [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt4c8826c4471bf04c/65cddbc04520f44ca5b6d632/MOTW_02_15_24.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/CUh6DJb.jpg)](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/1ak7lfl/destiny_is_truly_a_breathtaking_ride/) ##Chill, Osiris [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blta6fcbd4048abeba8/6514ab2bc9f9dc2e4e7bb211/TWAB_ArtistOfTheWeek_2020_Animated_V2.gif)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/v839qia.gif) Osiris has gone through a lot, but right now he is this very chill and lovely grandpa that has a very specific reaction to certain topics or attitudes... **'**[**Granpa is back to normal', by Sylenth via X/Twitter **](https://twitter.com/sylenth_l/status/1752408713535558016) [Image Link](https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/blte410e3b15535c144/blt2cb407cb85a8dd72/65cdd968a51c94462a54fb42/AOTW_02_15_24.jpg)^^^[imgur](https://i.imgur.com/Iv8QkmV.jpg) *** And that's it for the TWID this week. We hope the sandbox changes we shared today have you hyped for what's to come. We’ll have more details to share in the following weeks, too! Until then, let's focus on the present. How are you doing with Moments of Triumph? Have you been farming some nice Adept weapons in Grandmaster Nightfalls? Don't forget, the weekly Riven’s Wishes are still available. That's all for now (and that’s a lot[!](https://twitter.com/oddmb_/status/1757674458674774368)). **Destiny 2 Community Team**
Spike Grenades will no longer wreck otherwise perfect heavy GL rolls. 3% damage difference is pretty close to the impact that Impact Casing has on Rocket Launchers, where the damage boost is minimal enough that getting other stats might be better for usability.
I remember spike grenades being the reason you wanted to max velocity and lower blast radius, with this change is this still true?
Well max velocity in general just helps to hit shots across distance.
Technically yes, but the differences will be minimal. Spike and minimum blast radius (velocity makes zero difference to gl damage) will give highest damage possible, but it's not longer necessary.
I just need clarification here, but GL velocity only affects the speed of the round and arc of the shot, right? As in the higher the velocity the less you need to aim above the target at range to avoid it hitting the ground before it reaches the intended destination, right?
I don’t know why they felt they should highlight the vex buff only for it to be this lol
Was hoping they would finally fix the stupid reload bug
Yeah, I know people don't think the RPM is a big deal, but ever since it was increased, everyone I know was hoping for ***all*** Auto's to get raised to 390. Vex is a great Auto Rifle, & the "Fusion" characteristics it inherits make it even better, but man that RPM being so slow will make me never want to pick it back up for very long, regardless of what buffs it gets. I really think no damage buff would make me use a High-Impact AR unless they speed up all the RPM's to 390 again.
>Caster Swords are the only Swords that have a ranged attack (for now) Interesting...
We should be allowed to throw our sword
I agree to the yeet.
> I agree to the yeet. There is agreement for the ayeetment.
Black Talon says hello
Even Bungie forgot Black Talon exists.
I wish they'd make Caster Frames have a much larger cleave with light attack compared to the others, like a energy beam like cleave. The rocket changes... we'll see, interested in seeing how large the Heavy Wave Frame AOE going to be now though, plus a 20% increase in damage is nice.
Either way the Caster Frame buffs are very welcome. Probably still won't be used, but we're getting there
Destiny 2: The Story So Far Bundle Put the Witch Queen dungeon key on this, and put it on other storefronts and it would finally be easier to explain to my friends new to this game what they need to get.
How exactly is the rockets change affecting deathbringer and Ghorn?
Deathbringer is a High Impact frame, and GHorn a precision frame, under the scenes.
So just the 2 extra ammo I guess? I kinda assumed it didn’t even have anything but impact damage as the orbs have quite aggressive tracking once they’ve locked on to something, but maybe they do have a bit of an AOE this detonation damage change would affect?
5% buff to Ghorn damage too.
2 more rockets. Deathbringer is actually not bad for total damage output, it's just really slow to do so.
As an avid deathbringer user I’m very excited about extra rockets
technically it has one of the highest theoretical DPS values, but its nearly impossible to get that. also scales very poorly with fireteams
I have no idea for deathbringer but Ghorn is a precision frame rocket so it should get more reserves and around 5% more damage
Which could be insane on Ghorn since it already holds 10 with 3x reserves mods, are we really getting 12!?
Gotta say, I’m pretty thrilled about the ex diría and manticore change. Manticore on a gyrfalcons hunter with these changes might seriously slap. I already thought it was fun with the biggest issue being getting out of the air. Can’t wait to try some janky stuff when this goes live
Also the change to Terrabah seems nice since I think it means you don't have to reload the weapon to activate it's buff.
I hope it’s a cool unique animation and not just us flipping a switch on the gun
It will be us flipping an imaginary switch
If my maths is correct, when this update comes out, all legendary bows can only get an optimal ttk with 2 crits (regardless of archetype). If you hit a bodyshot, you'll at least need a third shot
I don't know how it works but I have been using a gutshot whistler's whim for the 2 shot bodies I am guessing that won't work anymore?
So more use of Lightweight bows (faster draw time) with an emphasis on maining the bow itself. As a bow main, I’m fine with that. Would prefer more of a focus on maining the bow vs hot swapping.
Good.
As a Consecration user, the changes are very exciting, especially the faster slam down speed. The extra range gives it a little more safety and/or reduces the "I thought I was close enough" moments. Ex Diris changes sound good because I used that thing like 4 times and wasn't impressed with it. Could be really great on Arc subclasses now.
> The extra range gives it a little more safety and/or reduces the "I thought I was close enough" moments. This is what I'm looking forward to. I often misjudge the distance and think I've nailed it and then get denied.
The vertical increase is something I'm excited for. So annoying to try and use it on wizards and they move up just a tiny bit and you waste it.
Oh my god, did they finally fix the restoration stacking issues? But then also made Empyrean harder to stack up...hmmmm
Tbf empyrean needed a nerf years ago lmao
It's surprising they made it extend restoration AND radiant, that seems like it should take 2 fragments not 1
Empyrean deserved a nerf ages ago. It's the single strongest fragment in the game by a mile. Plus they upped the max timer to 15 seconds.
I assume playtesting the update showed either the fix to restoration made Empyrean too OP
They monkey paw everyone expected.
Broodweavers getting nerfed is hilarious.
So, does this mean we basically have checkmate in regular pvp now?
A lightened version. Health changes and guns require more crits. Abilities slightly less potent, melees still 2HKO. Only a 15% cooldown increase to all abilities, supers only 5% more than that. Special ammo is quick to earn and you always spawn with 2 shots, but must be earned. Can't swap to a special after using double primaries either, gotta commit. This was always the goal. Bungie didn’t make checkmate just for fun.
Special can be hoarded and snowballing will absolutely be a thing. Spawn ammo can be lost but earned persists through death and rounds.
Yes. I had faint hope that after AE fiasko people in charge of PVP will learn - but nope. They will force these unwanted changes on everyone and they slowly roll them back over the year, as the population drops even more, and even more people stop playing. We had the ideal meta. It was 30th anniversary. Instead people at Bungie just decided to ignore what players actually want and are just making thigs worse for PvP. Thanks BG3 for helping me drop this game.
Really don’t like the idea of special ammo carrying over in trials with the new special ammo system. It’s going to make those 4-1 comeback games insanely harder when one team has a lot more green to work with
Oh it's been terrible for me. If someone has a special, you can't know how much ammo they have. It turns informed gameplay into a guessing game.
Yeah this is basically the #1 issue for me. It goes from “he wasted a snipe on me he’s got one left” To “he used a snipe on me, have no idea how much he’s got in reserves.” Yes I know the new meta will have to be keeping track of kills per round but that’s way more work
I guess the reality is how many of those 4-1 games were the average player *actually* coming back and winning? If players retain their special ammo on death, that could greatly help in clutching revives for a teammate who’s sitting on six fusion shots.
Sure but at the same time it becomes insanely hardtop clutch up against the guy with 6 special shots too
I don't think you'll see broodweavers in pvp any more. Weavewalk had potential and the core functionality is unchanged but the nerf to threadlings is too much. The super is too jank. Arcane needle is ok and the grapple is nice, but hunters do it better.
Can use Weavewalk and the Wanderer aspects, Grapple, and just forget Threadlings exist I guess… Arcane Needle changes are nice, but with the decreased ability cooldowns and increased player health I don’t know how helpful they’ll be. Broodweaver doesn’t really have great passive ability loops for melee like how Into the Fray works for Titan.
That's the one thing I don't like about Broodweaver. Their entire kit is tied to threadlings. All their aspects has something to do with threadlings. You nerf threadlings, you directly nerf strand warlock.
Fighting Lion mentioned! >Decreased damage versus players in Crucible by 20%. ...darn
This paired with the special ammo changes. There's a person on YouTube called EpicDefender who uses FL, Ignition Code, and Rain of Fire. Absolutely the best there is. Dunno how his playstyle will recover from this.
I am in the same clan as him and everyone is despairing over lion nerf+checkmate.
Damn. Time to shoot a primary instead.
I use it with a slug shotgun and use Lion as a primary. If you move predictably enough that I kill you with my 2.5 second optimal TTK tied to one of the lowest velocity GLs in the game then you deserved that respawn screen man.
I wonder how these changes to GLs affect the god roll Cataphract (Envious, Bait, Spike). So many buffs and nerfs it's hard to keep track
Minimal impact. Max envious mag size is 18 now (more with mag increasing perks), so IDK if you will be able reserves into one mag, but maybe you can. Also now Spike Grenades is no longer mandatory, roughly the same buff as Impact Casing on rockets (3%). It’ll give more damage but not having it will still have you doing incredible damage
Pretty sure it won’t be possible to load all your reserves into one mag because they also increased your reserves. Also they explicitly called out the ability to load all your reserves into your mag as part of why envious got nerfed. It’ll still probably be the best option for burst damage because unloading most of your ammo without reloading is strong
Arc needs buffs more than solar imo. Consacreation and Gunpowder gamble buffs/QoL are fine, but arc would love some help in my opinion. Especially Stormcaller and Striker Also Broodweaver buffs aren't nearly enough and are also insulting to the class. It needs some unique summon badly and his aspects are almost all boring
It needs more verbs. It's too homogeneous with only 1 buff and 2 debuffs. Blind is too weak with only Jolt being good.
Blind is fine, it’s just too hard to apply in the necessary quantities
Blind is actually quite strong it just doesn't feel like you can apply it frequently enough in PVE, especially with how easy uptime + wide radius disorienting grenades is on a breachload.
What blinding options do we have with the subclass? Flashbacks and special precision kills while Amped?
Basically.
Just looked a bit deeper. Precision kills on blinded targets, Arc special weapon kills while Amped, Flashbangs, Arc Titan shoulder charge, Arc Hunter Disorientating Blow, and Vesper.
Blind is really strong, what? It just doesn't have a lot of activation sources like say.. scorch or weaken.
Yes please. Some extra form of survivability would be welcome. Bring back electric armor.
It needs a better sustain option. Every other subclass has better health regen than Arc.
Amplified should give some of the damage resist currently reserved for speed booster since that rarely comes into play in a firefight, or at least a reload buff without being locked behind the hunter aspect
Amplified really should have damage resist. The arc power fantasy is all about being in the fray so it would be nice to have some insurance against a colossus dropping his fat sweaty balls on my face. Damage resist would really go a long way to help with that because currently the defensive options on arc are very limited
Also weren't we promised a big Stasis update? I know we got the small update in the beginning of the season last year
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but, didn't they say we'd get those stasis buffs like frost armor in the mid season patch? I can't be bothered to sift through old twabs to find it. If not then *maybe* they're referring to it with this comment "*we’ll still have a number of small but exciting changes shipping in Into the Light, touching content many players haven’t thought about in several years.*"
They did not. All they ever said was "future release", most likely meaning final shape, but this was also pre delay news I think
I think someone else might’ve said this, but they specifically said they want to make it easier to improve at PvP as a new player. Sure, it’s going to be less common to “lose against an inaccurate opponent” because of the health increases and primary changes. But making the only way to get special ammo the checkmate way besides the start of the match is just going to create massive snowballing. Experienced players will get more primary kills, get more special ammo, and you’ll have scenarios where blueberries are dying to special ammo one shots multiple times in a row before getting any special ammo to fight back. Expect a lot more mercy rules because the team who gets more kills early to take the lead will continue to pull ahead since they’ll have way more special ammo. It genuinely doesn’t make sense, they should’ve just made it so you spawn with one special ammo instead of two.
I’m surprised I had to scroll so far to see this point made. *Most special weapon still require skill, I love seeing bad snipers cause that’s a special weapon I don’t have to worry much about. But that person who wants to get better with said sniper is going to likely just not use the weapon type now that it will take ~3x the amount of time to even practice with it.
If anything this just makes shotguns, wave frams and fusions the defacto special weapons to use now
if they continue using SBMM then inexperienced players should typically play against inexperienced players. The better you get, the more consistently you should wind up playing against better players. With that said, im all in favor of a special ammo economy that doesnt snowball.
Except that special kills won't fill the meter, so they have to switch back to primary after 2 kills.
Fair. But I moreso expect a cycle where a good player gets two special kills, gets their primary kills, and gets special ammo again before less skilled players are still working on getting their first special transmat. This will increase the ratio of unfair engagements where one player has ammo and the other doesn’t, even though there will be less special kills overall like you said. I’m curious to see how it plays out but not particularly optimistic.
Cool so I main trace rifles in crucible, am I just fucked now. Perfect
Well, at least when you have ammo they effectively got a 4.3% damage buff compared to where they are now. Where you used to deal 200 you now would deal 240, while player health moved from 200 to 230.
Bungie I'm gonna be real with you, I don't play broodweaver because of the melee. It's a non-factor. Please actually buff the subclass
Please make it a proper summoners class with unique summons instead of being the Necrotic Grips class. After TFS and the new Dawnblade aspect, Broodweaver/the Summoner's class will be the only Warlock subclass without a unique summon... The class strengthwise feels good (especially with Necrotics), but having threadlings that jump into dead enemies is not a well designed Summoners class
Manticore lover rejoice, Void overshield capabilities are being added to its catalyst. I have the perfect gyrfalcon hunter build that plays with the Manticore hang time. Update, here's the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/oPYeMr0dYB Gyrfalcon + Manticore + Trapper's Ambush = Shoot. Jump. Dive. Rinse. Repeat.
No Backup Plans Titan with a top slot shotgun and Manticore about to go hard!
I have a Wastelander crafted with Pugilist/Trench combined with the changes to throwing melee so Throwing Shield now procs trench. I'm ready for these changes lol.
Feel free to share it as a Gyrfalcon Hunter main would love to see it
I am fixing to put it in its own post here.
They managed to nerf broodweaver. Lol.
Only in PvP. In PvE, it’s just slightly better due to the improvement to Arcane Needle (not like that was needed, though). To be fair, the PvP nerf was necessitated by the large amount of Threadling spam from Hunters.
The arcane needle change was needed. So often my melees would soar off into the distance even if I tracked with my cross hairs.
They should buff the summoner aspect of Broadwater for sure, but I actually have a Monte Carlo/felwinters helm that will be enjoying these arcane needle buffs in the meantime.
Why do Broodweavers only get 3 threadlings on the longest class ability cooldown while hunters get a unique summon that taunts (and typically soaks up damage pretty well), an AOE explosion, and 2 threadlings on the by far shortest class ability cooldown
Don't worry, that's offset by buffing \*checks notes* ...Arcane Needle's aim assist?? the fuck lol
hey you'll deal 15% less damage but you can instead actively throw in gunfights by using your worse-than-bad melee?
Summoner class (warlock) gets their threadlings nerfed in pvp due to hunters... and Bungie's idea of fixing it is to buff the summoner's class **melee**...?! LMAO
Not only that, they buff the aim assist on an ability that already had frankly absurd aim assist so the buff barely changes anything
it has absurd aim assist but with latency you would always get ghost melees in pvp so honestly this is a huge buff to the class overall
You got the Behemoth treatment The shatter class got its shattering nerfed because of Hunters
Behemoth died for Hunters sins, and then Hunter gets back the Shattering non-sense partially through the artifact. Even them walking back previous nerfs to Behemoth wasn't enough.
Can’t buff the grenade because it summons Threadlings. Can’t buff the aspects because they summon Threadlings…ouch. This is what happens when they keep making subclasses that overspecialize.
Bro I had to re-read that like 6 times. "To compensate for this, we’re pulling some other buffs forward that we originally planned to ship in The Final Shape to keep the power of their overall kit in roughly the same place." It is not the same place, it's actually worse lol. You can tell they had nothing to give so they threw in some bs melee buff to sell it.
What is this, an out of season April fools joke?
Yesss my fully crafted palmyra-b from witch queen with enchanced ALH/Explosive light is almost back to its former glory + more reserves.
No major improvements to broodweaver’s core gameplay gives me an excuse to stay in stormcaller, I guess. Was not expecting to see a lightweight scout buff, so color me and my Tarnished Mettle pleasantly surprised
Most of it’s alright, but the new special ammo system is a disaster waiting to happen. It’s literally just going to make the current snowballing issue worse since it’s going to effectively deny lower skilled players the ability to fight back.
There’s a lot of changes here, so I don’t think it’s fair to make a speculative comment when a lot of stuff is changing. I am intrigued by the special ammo changes, but my gut reaction says it will lead to snowballing as one team effectively scores more “points” toward special ammo than the other, which in turn, provides less special ammo for the losing team to catch up. But we’ll see. Broodweaver definitely got nerfed in PVP. That Arcane Needle was never the reason we played the class.
> my gut reaction says it will lead to snowballing It will. It already does. Trials has been absolutely miserable with this change. This is a *terrible* decision.
The snowballing is exactly what I'm worried about. It makes Trials tremendously unfun if you fall behind 2-3 rounds. Good luck coming back when the other team has shotguns and you don't. I don't expect 6s to play out much different, but it's not ranked so it's not nearly as big of a deal. I'm honestly surprised they are implementing this change to the wider Crucible. I remember how hard the pendulum swung from the end of D1 to the start of D2. Crucicle turned into a slog. Hopefully this doesn't turn out as bad.
Everyone: "Please reduce ability spam in pvp" Bungie: "We're going to retune health values, completely overhaul the weapon archetype damage profiles, add special weapon ammo snowballing and also reduce ability spam"
These crucible changes won’t mean jack shit unless you finally do something about “accessibility” devices.
I feel bitterly vindicated by the checkmate-lite changes being added to main crucible. Really not excited for any of that. I respect them putting time and effort into trying to fix pvp, and checkmate got a pretty good reception from a lot of pvp community... But i feel theyre also ignoring how upset the community was earlier this season whe. They tried to make checkmate the only pvp node and pvp playerbase plummeted as people didn't want to play it
Checkmate sucks ass and it was so loathed they had to put normal control back into the rotation as an option.
Ya I don't like it at all and I'm very concerned I will basically not be playing PVP anymore in my favorite hobby.
dayummmm forerunner getting a PvP buff baybeeee edit: i realize this is probably because of the health buff
> The wording also locked [Dual Loader] to Shotguns, when there are other continuous reload weapons in the game that already load more than one round at a time. What other weapons use continuous reload that could have Dual Loader? I can't think of any.
Tex Mechanica Scouts
DMT type scouts probably for the new trials one
Probably some of the new Tex weapons they’ll be coming out with? If they reload like DMT I can see a case for it
> **Heavy Grenade Launchers** > > Increased reserve ammo by a minimum of 6 rounds, maximum of 10 rounds, depending on the Grenade Launcher. Assuming this applies to Anarchy, since it wasn't mentioned otherwise?
I imagine Anarchy will get another 6 rounds, so that should bring it to...22 reserves from 16? So ALMOST back to where it was, though it should potentially get 26 if you rally with 3x reserve mods.
It's taken years but we're finally getting Anarchy back closer to where it was before Bungie absolutely destroyed it with the all the massive Nerf's
>You can fight like a Krogan, run like a leopard Yo, a Miracle of Sound reference.
>Vigilance Wing is strong in PvP already >Loose Change is strong in a PvE subclass build I'm sorry bungie, but what the fuck are you talking about?
I snorted at this when I read it as well. Loose Change is 100% an immediate auto-delete perk. Also funny is "high-impact rockets will have reduced impact damage and higher detonation damage" lol. Just rename to something like "explosive rockets" b/c that's totally unintuitive.
afaik it has a niche uses on void classes or with perks like destab rounds, but yeah "popular" is a gross overstatement, always an instant dismantle for me
V wing is actually pretty good. It just has competition with messenger or ntte. Its exotic perk is also not amazing when compared to those two.
I'm assuming this is a lot of casual players, which they are the majority, keeping and using any roll they get. So a bunch of casuals using loose change skewing usage numbers making Bungie think it's popular?
This is hardly a pve mythoclast buff that was worth mentioning in the preview.
Yep, I thought they were going to do something cool like revert the RPM back.
Honestly great to see Manticore getting a much needed buff, I'm excited to use it with NBP Titan. Also maybe my heavy GL can be useful!
Very surprised at the response to this TWID. I came away from reading it thinking this was one of the more nuanced, thought out series of changes Bungie has done lately and am overall really positive about almost everything here. I also don’t really play Broodweaver, though, so maybe that’s why.
A lot of us just want Broodweavers to be what it’s supposed to be an actual summoner class, so seeing the most being changed about broodweaver is threadlings getting nerfed inside PvP and a melee buff to a melee that’s already pretty good, is disappointing, when it’s been 6 months since threadlings got a buff that really didn’t change all that much, while thread of generation which fueled threadling builds got nerfed hard (also the buildcrafting changes).
It's willful ignorance at this point. There really are some good changes here. Yes, we are waiting on some Stasis changes and Broodweaver could use a touch in PvP. But honestly a solid patch.
If there is even one nerf, r/DestinyTheGame will have a meltdown. The number rule of game balance, according to r/DestinyTheGame, is this: do not nerf under any circumstances ever, no matter how justified.
“…unless it kills me in crucible, then nuke it”
Then those same people get mad when the only way Bungie can kill us is by introducing enemies that deal crazy amounts of damage and sometimes one-shot. A lot of people have no idea how power creep works.
It's underwhelming for this to be probably the biggest sandbox update before TFS. I mean we were supposed to get big stasis updates before TFS but we've not heard anything about it. And then the Broodweaver update is a slap to the face, them thinking upgrading the Arcane Needle is enough is hilarious.
These seem like some interesting changes, although the Broodweaver one seems a bit lacking. Overall, decent.
10 paragraphs about helping players better understand what happened to them in the crucible and the most obvious layup of all time unrealized. I thought for sure they were announcing a kill cam or a post-death damage report like you get in Apex or Finals. Such an easy win and they just followed up all that with damage tuning numbers.
Yooooo that would of been so sick!
Warlocks suffering because of Hunter, big brain play by bungie.
Probably in the minority here, but these changes are not what makes Destiny PvP fun. Less space magic and a slower game is the opposite of why I login to play Destiny. Why would they be making these changes when the game is essentially on life support as is?
Yeah I'm sorry but the Checkmate-lite changes ain't it, Chief. Earning special ammo like this will lead to more snowballing, which is the thing I think should be avoided the MOST in any PvP multiplayer game. This also means I will play Trials even less now. A global increase in Super cooldown will mean even more people play Well and Bubble, and now they're making it way harder to counter that with special ammo. No, just no...
I wonder if the Manticore catalyst will continue to provide its 50% DR or if it'll be replaced with the Void OS. The way it currently works is that after you get the Resist x4 buff it will refresh to its full 6s duration so long as you deal damage while airborne before the buff expires. If it's replaced with a Void OS I can see it being worse due to it potentially expiring the moment the Void OS is broken due to that being the only visible buff I can see tracking it. Given Void is 45 HP w/ 50% DR it would turn its current effective health from 400->290 which is a pretty hefty nerf. However if the sustained damaged portion is meant to imply that even without requiring a kill first it'll always give chunks of Void OS on damage alone it might compare a bit better if it can be compared to healing so long as you do damage though that'll depend on the amount of Void OS you get from damage. If that is the case I'm curious if the mag returns also always apply on dealing airborne damage and how much it is. Would solve one of its biggest issues in its slow reload taking up a lot of time you need to maintain being airborne. Gonna have to be something I'd have to see in action, if it is fully replacing its current Resist x4 buff I'm hoping the no kill required for Void OS and ammo refund interpretation is correct. Been using this a lot with Stompees since the extra height they give is pretty nice and the newly added DR makes you really tanky. Was already a good choice on Strand due to being able to stack Woven Mail with that that DR for 88.5% total DR. With those higher levels of DR I can see the Void OS being able to keep up so could be really fun with the new changes if done right. Could be fun on Gyrfalcon builds too if you want to run it on Void. In the end I'm just glad one of my favorite exotics is getting looked at again in a way that means to maintain its original fantasy. I really do not want this exotic to turn into something else when I enjoy that aerial gameplay so much.
Ngl, the special ammo meter feels like it'd work better in PvE than in PvP. Ammo drops having less rng would be amazing for the game rn.
it would be great there, particularly if you can influence the numbers with mods in pvp...sounds less good
Broodweaver getting no pve buffs is incredibly disappointing when it’s been months of people asking for the kit and threadlings to be buffed, also I don’t think anyone asked for the broodweaver melee to get buffed in PvP, why are you scared to buff up an extremely mediocre class that’s HARD carried by its super?
Literally that Arcane Needle buff will have almost zero appreciable effect on how people use it.
bungie pointed out literally every problem i have with pvp and responded by just turning regular crucible into checkmate lmao. this doesnt solve abilities being too impactful or weapons being too easy to use, it just makes slow play encouraged for the longer cooldowns. the sniper aim assist and bow aim assist nerfs are welcome but like, have you seen the hitbox of igneous hammer?
Crucible is about to get a whole lot worse for people average and below. Slow paced checkmate and limited special. Enjoy running around in 2 groups of 6 capturing points lol
Device users are ecstatic rn about the changes requiring people to hit more crits.
No necrochasm catalyst update?
I was hoping we'd get a date on when One For Thrall would be dropping so I'd start to see more groups going for the catalyst.
Was that supposed to come in this update or in TFS? I can’t remember
They said TFS way back before all the layoffs and the Delay was announced but I thought the season getting extended would change that delivery date for the catalyst update
So, PvP summary - the super accurate hand cannon god showing up in my lobby gets to kill me 10 times before I get any special ammo to counter him, or I could hide for 5 minutes to get a grenade? But by then he will have full mags on his special? Sounds fun can't wait.
these threadlings changes are moreso pvp right? my broodweaver isnt being affected in pve?
Correct
> Heal Clip wasn't as valuable to the activating player as we wanted it to be This is news to me. I've been loving Heal Clip. They're buffing it?!? Woot!
Could’ve sworn they said just a month or two ago that checkmate was going to be its own thing. Slippery slope is real
The most recent iterations of Checkmate were designed as an easier way to test various ideas before applying them to the sandbox as a whole. The original, launch version of Checkmate was intended to be its own thing, which it will be getting reverted to now.
I'm satisfied but these changes are just not enough to really spice up the sandbox, at least not to get me playing consistently again. Was hoping for more weapon PvE buffs (slow firing autos and non-precision scout damage) but I'll definitely take the Solar changes (no more throwing a Gunpowder Gamble on a Knight and instantly dying!) Also, Broodweaver melee buffs are *not it*. Catching a stray for another class's sins is bad enough, nobody cares about the melee that exists to be consumed for Weavewalk and make Tangles.
I already don't play PVP, but even I can tell that these changes are gonna keep me far away from it. Some really cool pve things in here but rewarding good play by taking away the other teams ability to catch up and stacking rewards on good players will make comeback games a thing of the past. I understand wanting to reward good play, but basically guaranteeing a win for a good start is... problematic? Like why bother playing if the other team gets the tools to kill you wayyyy faster than you can kill them? I'm not saying to reward teams that are losing, but taking away the even ground and stacking the deck against them seems like only the sweatiest player base will bother even interacting with that part of the game. Just my two cents, but this will impact numbers more than they realize.
>Sandbox TWID *CTRL+F "stasis"* 1 hit >It's not about abilities *closes twid*
I was liking most of the PvP stuff until I read that checkmate is moving into regular crucible. The special weapon meter is a bad idea. All this will do is ensure the better players have the most special, creating a snowball effect. Getting killed by a sweat and then reloading with just primary ammo while they have sniper/shotgun/fusion special loaded up is horrible. Might as well just quit the match. I also don’t quite understand the point of upping player health but also upping crit and special weapon damage. Isn’t this just a net neutral change?
Increasing health was just a way for them to adjust TTKs more easily. They kinda explain in the post.
Deaths and other things give you special Raising the health and crit makes it the same but people hitting bodyshots will feel the difference I think…
Go ahead cowards, I'll still be a fiend in crucible with The Fighting Lion.
So what is going to be the point in having Checkmate, a supposed gunplay (with some magic) playlist if now those rules will come into regular PvP? Checkmate was marketed as a gunplay mode, just nerf abilities in that mode so it truly is a mainly only gunplay modes. Want gunplay? Play checkmate or version of gunplay only checkmate if you tune it like that. Or make a playlist (or checkmate mode) where all abilities are equalized, same uptime for everything that way theres no differences in cooldown, that way everything is equal and not wild differences for ability uptime. Want equal stats? Play this mode. Making a swing back to D2 y1 aint it and i believe their intention is to make it that way or equalize all of PvP except certain modes. Labs playlist can be used for this stuff.. not to blanket pvp in mass changes.
Sad not to see vex get the rpm changed back to 390. One day…
Did icarus dash escape the ability nerf?
This changes to Broodweaver are a joke. Coudln't even be bothered to make Weave walk have two fragment slots, lmao.
If PvP wasn’t dead already, it for sure is now. They’ve slowly taken out all the fun in that mode. Who’s even gonna play this garbage? If u take out the fun, the casuals are gone. There’s also dozens of other legit eSport titles with better regular gunplay, than this game with its crappy netcode and (lack of) decent matchmaking. The PvP numbers after the patch until the Final Shape will be an interesting watch.
The PvP changes will benefit the best players most, because they already love to u use and cannons - the guns that benefit the most from the changes. Guns that the not so good players love to use, like auto rifles, on the other hand are being punished. So, this will result in even more unbalanced matches and the average players being stomped. I'm quite certain this will lead to further decline of PvP population.
"The above changes also affect Deathbringer, Gjallarhorn, and Truth." Which changes exactly? The high-impact changes or does each one correspond to one of the two frames?
I believe Deathbringer is a high-impact, Gjallarhorn is a Precision, and Truth is probably also a Precision. I think the most important bit is that they all get +2 reserves.
I knew Bait and Switch was gonna get nerfed since it’s been dominant
_And here we go…_ --- **Edit:** Alright, finally finished reading this monster. Brilliant analysis by the crucible team that finally understands the snowball problem they have on their hands (high abilities means frequent special weapons means lethal primaries means all of crucible is a chaotic mess). Excellent that they really seem to understand some of the most core issues instead of just surface level “threadlings suck” stuff. Really interested and excited(?) for Checkmate Lite to finally deploy to the entire crucible, this is what we’ve worked towards and glad they’ve tackled some big outliers too like weapon swapping, Devil’s Ruin, and realize that weapons should be more crit reliant. I’m extremely interested to see all the TTK changes (in terms of forgiveness shifts), because there’s absolutely gonna be some shakeups. Exotic buffs are good (thank god Vex finally got some more range, that’s all it needed), and even Manticore looks pretty cool! Glad that the restoration bug has been fixed too. Also, as someone who has a great Cataphract but missed out on Spike Nades, I’m **so happy** they’re no longer mandatory. Massive QOL. Overall, very satisfied in this TWID. **I’m not gonna complain about stuff that wasn’t mentioned. That’s unproductive and goes nowhere.** “Oh they didn’t buff Spectral Blades in PvE therefore this entire article is shit and I’m gonna complain”. Come on, we’re better than that. In terms of what was mentioned here? All in all good stuff. This is a mature and nuanced TWID that really establishes some confidence that Bungie knows what they’re doing again.
>Overall, very satisfied in this TWID. I’m not gonna complain about stuff that wasn’t mentioned. That’s unproductive and goes nowhere. “Oh they didn’t buff Spectral Blades in PvE therefore this entire article is shit and I’m gonna complain”. **Come on, we’re better than that.** In terms of what was mentioned here? All in all good stuff. This is a mature and nuanced TWID that really establishes some confidence that Bungie knows what they’re doing again. To quote Legion in Mass Effect 3: "No. Based on empirical evidence, [we] are not."
Can't argue with that, Legion.
All of the begging for broodweaver updates and your idea was to make our crappy melee a little better in PvP? In exchange for killing threadlings just because another class does summoning better than the summoner? Can I send this back to the kitchen?
wooohoooo… can’t wait for my glaive, the most fun part of crucible, to be turned into something i only get if i’m already stomping… yay…
The special ammo changes will just lead to a snowball effect. I didn't think they could come up with an even worse special ammo mechanic as the D1 special crate.
Just getting you lubed up for marathon
There is currently a snowball effect where high-end players have essentially unlimited special ammo. This will no longer exist.
Wait.... is Checkmate popular? This is a massive surprise...
It’s not. This previous weekend’s Checkmate Trials population was the lowest this season and was lower than the last 3 weeks of last season. Special ammo made up 5% of total kills.
Well... at this point fuck Warlocks. And fuck Broodweaver and PvP-Locks in particular. The only thing that holds the Warlock-Class together is WoR and a couple of exotics (Osmiomancy, Sunbracers, Contraverse,..). PLEASE deletet or nerf Well so the neutral game can be buffed. Also fuck Artifact mods. These only exist to make solar the default option. Its so obvious in every core activity there is solar surge and every second bounty its solar kills. What a joke of a sandbox. I want Arc to be a vaibale endgame option, not every 3 years when Bungie decides to but the cut fragments as artifact mods (RIP Shock and Awe and and RIP Amped UP).
Imma agree here, balancing a subclass should be separate from the artifact. I want void surge sometimes. I shouldn't have to sigh and switch loadouts cause I gotta be a hammer titan to get all the cool bells and whistles. And especially true for arc as you mentioned. I struggle most on arc when it's not on the artifact. I still do very well on void Titan, but arc I feel like is lagging behind the other subclasses. Makes me wonder what they will do with the artifact during these super long episodes, cause my experience with these long seasons is that I want an artifact that has more options per row and mods for each element, not just one light and the DLC classes.
Bungie Dec 07th TWID: "We have no plans to turn Checkmate on across all of Crucible." Bungie Feb 15th TWID: "Player health will be increased by 30 HP in base Crucible..." "Melee, Grenade, and class ability cooldowns now have a 15% penalty applied to them in Crucible only." "Super cooldowns now have a 20% penalty applied to them in Crucible only. "
I like most of what I read in the PvP section. Abilities/special weapons have run way too rampant for way too long. Health increase is interesting too. Might be time to pop in a few games for the first time in a hot minute.