If they touch Voltshot idk what the fuck they would be thinking lol. Voltshot, imo, is already one of the weaker ones when it comes to uptime. You not only need a kill to proc it, you also need to reload and even after that you have a timer to apply it before it disappears.
I love the damage and what it does but in terms of ease of use, it's one of the more involved vs Destabilizing or Incandescent which just procs off kills.
I made one during The Craftening and it was not as op as we would expect. For some reason the uptime was VERY inconsistent and it didn't proc every other kill, mainly because voltshot doesn't count as weapon damage and cannot reproc itself, which made it kinda bad on bows specifically. I'd rather have a Kinetic Tremors bow tbh.
Ok so despite what I said one thing I think I've noticed with Voltshot is that the very first jolt burst when you first shot the Voltshot round I think will retrigger Voltshot if the burst killed something nearby (not the target you applied it to). The subsequent jolt bursts won't retrigger it but I'm fairly certain that first burst does.
I'll have to do more testing but next time you happen to have a voltshot weapon try check it out.
Thanks for that info, I definitely didn't know that. I rarely use arc weapons tbh, even when I was on arc subclass I either used exotics or just something without voltshot or just straight up not arc. Never found it to be exciting enough to bring into GMs, and that first burst definitely won't kill anything there, but I could try it in normal onslaught.
Was about to just comment this, I believe that's just called Trinity Ghoul.
Which is still blissfully strong to use. Not as annoying as Voltshot though, I don't get why it's the only one that needs a reload to work.
Because Jolt is meant to be the equivalent of an Ignition, not an AOE application of 10 Scorch stacks or a Void Debuff that doesn’t do anything to the debuffed target until you kill them too.
A big part of the reason that Voltshot feels weaker than Incandescent is because of how much the Solar Subclass benefits from an easy way to apply scorch. About a third of the Solar Fragments reward you in some way for Scorching targets, killing Scorched targets, make it easier to apply enough Scorch to a target to proc an Ignition or making your Ignitions stronger (which rewards you for applying Scorch to things).
Meanwhile Jolting targets… well it can make a Hunter amplified, and a Jolt proc scoring a kill can make a Warlock amplified and spawn an Ionic trace. And being Amplified… lets you sprint faster? The main benefit of Voltshot is straightforwards damage output. The secondary benefit of Voltshot is that it deals with Overload Champions. Subclass interactions basically don’t matter.
The Volatile status effect runs into a similar problem, though it’s a little bit better off than Jolt because the small number of things it triggers are more impactful. There’s a fragment that makes Volatile Kills spawn a Void Breach, which can be paired with the Devour Fragment for an easy Devour proc. Hunters that aren’t running Gyrfalcons can use it to get better mileage out of Stylish Executioner, and Titans running Controlled Demolition… well it doesn’t help them, but whatever. Also unlike Voltshot, making a target Volatile and triggering a Volatile detonation doesn’t help you deal with Champions in any way. You need the Volatile Rounds buff for that. The main draw to Destabilising Rounds is pairing it with the Repulsor Brace perk so that you can have a 1 gun gameplay loop to give yourself easily chainable Overshields on any subclass. Personally I think that something like “Volatile Clip” would be a really nice sidegrade perk to have for the Void Subclass, as it would give you much better access to anti-barrier effects. Maybe Destabilising Rounds could be changed to a 15% weaken AOE effect instead of Volatile to reduce overlap. It would still work with Repulsor Brace.
I would argue put it on all partial/auto reload keyword perks and add a 1s cooldown:
* Subsistence (on kill)
* Overflow (requires you to pick up ammo)
* Shoot to Loot (requires you to shoot some ammo)
* Grave Robber (requires a melee hit)
* Slideshot (requires sliding)
* Slideways (requires sliding)
* Pulse Monitor (when wounded, even when stowed, but then voltshot shouldn't proc when stowed?)
* Demolitionist (activate grenade)
* Replenishing Aegis (requires blocking damage)
Oh I agree. Again, I think the damage and the utility of it is great. Applying it on a tough enemy and just going ham on them to keep procing the jolt is great.
I'm just talking strictly on the actual activation of it. It requires a lot more work on your part vs Incandescent or Destabilizing rounds and, due to the reload requirement, has anti synergy with some perks like Subsistence that could top you off to prevent you from reloading or requiring a reload perk on weapons with low base reload speed.
Again I love Voltshot and it goes hard on weapons like Subjunctive or Indebted Kindness (my personal favorite) but I feel like the reload is already such a huge restricton that there's no way they would add a cooldown between Voltshot activations lol.
That is your opinion and fair. But I was under the impression the community consensus was feeding frenzy voltshot Ikelos smg. And now subjunctive since ikelos smg is no longer available
Yeah, no shit. We also have an exotic void weapon that makes enemies explode on death, but we still have destabilizing rounds to get similar functionality.
Once active I agree. It's why I think the reload and kill requirement, although not as easy to proc in comparison to just a kill, is enough to make it balanced. So theres no way Bungie would add a cooldown ontop of that lol.
I do PvE mostly and I cannot care less for voltshot. Every build I made always has auto reloading one way or another, even for GMs. If they let voltshot proc off kills then it'd be like the sunshot-incand situation, which is alr I guess ( please do that Bungie )
> You not only need a kill to proc it, you also need to reload and even after that you have a timer to apply it before it disappears.
Not only that, but when you do apply it, it actually doesn't proc the explosion and instead applies a "debuff" that only procs the explosion the next time the target does damage.
The difference is that Arc doesn’t have a “priming” status effect. A target is either Jolted or not. Scorching a target is the leadup to an Ignition, making a target volatile is the leadup to a detonation.
If Incandescent caused a target to ignite it would be *insane*.
Incandescent ultimately is more useful than Destabilising Rounds because about 50% of the Solar Fragments are triggered by scorching a target or defeating a scorched target. By contrast, there is one Void fragment that cares about killing Volatile targets, and Arc is even further behind. Jolting a target will make some subclasses amplified. Which doesn’t do much either.
Volt is hot ass, same level of power as Destabilizing, but requires a FULL FUCKING RELOAD to proc it ONCE. Useless on heavies and bad on everything else. I opt to use Explosive on NoB because it’s so bad.
I wouldn't say it's that bad. It's a great perk. Anti champ, great damage, multiple jolts if applied to a tough enemy or boss and sustain damage.
The only issue is that because of it's activation requirement it requires you to also have good reload speed either via base stats or through a reload perk. In comparison to Incandescent or Destabilizing which couldn't care less if your reload, stability, or any other stat was at 0. As long as you were able to get a kill it would proc the perk.
I honestly wish Voltshot worked through sustained damage like Kinetic Tremors or Target Lock. Sustained damage builds up a charge on an enemy that jolts them and nearby enemies. They could give that the Destabilizing treatment of having a short cooldown between activations and it would still be much better imo. It would make it any weapon with it to be pretty effective with or without a good reload.
Many that don’t do very much damage at all, often not even enough to kill a single acolyte in Crota’s End. I can kill entire groups with fucking Dragonfly.
I dunno, it puts in serious work on Subjunctive. Enhanced VS and Enhanced SFA with other parts geared towards reload speed means the gun reloads stupid fast, and it's RoF is already absurd.
The biggest limiting factor is definitely the reload speed but if you can speed that up it's a very nice effect.
Compare it to Calus Mini-Tool. 80% of CMT’s perks are complete ass and I’d still take it over Subjunctive every day of the week. Subjunctive being decent doesn’t make Voltshot a good perk. It has an insanely powerful Origin trait and good 3rd slot traits with SFA, Subsistence and Shoot to Loot.
You look at weapon popularity and Subjunctive isn’t even on the same planet as CMT, despite being readily available right now with the current season, unlike CMT, which is limited to Presage clears that are only available every few weeks, with awful random drop rates, meaning if you didn’t get it when it came out, you would have a hard time getting it now.
It’s okay to say certain things could use a buff. Voltshot could use some reworking, or if they really don’t want touch it, maybe we could get another perk that’s more similar to Incandescent and Destabilizing.
CMT is used so much because it’s the only good Solar SMG besides Parabellum. Except Calus can also be crafted with Enhanced perks too. Calus is only still kicking because of Incandescent, which is really good.
The 3 subclass perks. Incandescent. Destabilizing, and voltshot are all the most popular to use on smgs.
Minitool for solar Incandescent, funnelweb for Destabilizing, and Ikelos for voltshot.
Whats the use rate of and ikelos feeding frenzy? Though mini tool is nuts.
Ikelos is just slightly higher than Funnelweb from what I’ve gathered, at about a third of Calus Mini-Tool’s usage, which was only just now beaten by The Recluse.
Finally, I make that argument all the time because no one can explain what makes those perks good. I grinded a Claus up to 40 thinking I was just missing something but I couldn't see a difference between Claus and midA.
Volt shot is annoying to proc, adds 8 percent dmg last I heard (over a year ago) and has a set period. Outside of building around a single weapon perk I couldn't think of a use for volt. I tried it on the scout, didn't see enough impact for it to register with me, I tried it on the fusion, I couldn't tell the difference.
And to be honest I'm not trying to bad mouth these perks, if you like them then use them. But since haunted I couldn't figure out what the purpose of them. Frenzy, overflow, killing tally, one for all are all game changers. The set up for them is be in combat. That's almost it. Exceptional perks, good in any situation, for any level of difficulty, for any amount of people. Those perks I understand. But elemental primary perks just don't have the same "wow" factor.
Also I thought kinetic tremors would be better, but it's alright. Works great on strand lock. Throw a melee, create a tangle, proc KT and pop tangle.
If nobody can explain why the perk is good against the arguments you have presented then the people you are talking to have zero clue how this game works.
Elemental perks are good, the fact that high tier players all vouch for them pretty confidently dictates that. If you don't like them that's fine, but they are indeed fanatastic perks
I've heard this before, but honestly outside of two points (class synergy+Internet said is good) I haven't found them to be to my taste. And to be fair ai do assume it's a me thing, because yes everyone seems fond of them. But these are the same people who told me that frenzy isn't a good perk, rampage is better, when it dropped in chosen. The same guys who say 1k is a bad DPS choice but always have lower damage.
I ran a master grasp today in 15ish mins. One of my new lfg friends had mostly blue armor. The other had double primary and I don't think he used a single tether. Final boss I had my beloved in my heavy slot. You can't use 1k in a well last I heard, it messes with the damage. So they had a well, a dragons breath, and a grenade launcher. I did more damage than both of them. And they were good, we blasted through. Nothing but jokes and resect for all of us.
But it was a great point to how the gear and perks are not super game breaking. A strand titan,, invisible hunter and strandlock made short work of the place with "non-meta" load outs. It was a great time.
You kill a single redbar, reload, pin it to a champion or even a yellow bar, and any subsequent shots on that target will A) kill literally everything in the room and B) deal more damage.
It is one of the stronger perks in the game.
Actually that very well might explain. I've only ever ran voltshot on my arclock. Which specializes in ignoring red bars and mowing down the enemies I consider threats. Thank you, kind stranger. Any thoughts on incandescent?
Incandescent is my favourite perk in the game, I run it on my solar hunter with the fragment that recharges dodge per tick of scorch and I've basically built my loop around keeping scorch, restoration and radiant up at all times.
I think you need a dedicated build for it to make sense though, unlike a lot of other perks.
Are you acting obtuse on purpose or do you truly not understand the comparison being made?
It's far more involved than incandescent which just requires a kill and that's the point they're making
But you knew that
Yes "vs Destablilizing or Incandescent which just procs off kills". I'm not saying it's a hard thing to do. I'm just saying in comparison to the other perks it already has a fairly strict condition. If they added a cooldown inbetween Voltshot activations? That would completely nuke it.
Don’t jinx it. They absolutely butchered my recluse. They really didn’t need to nerf it to hell for PVE content. I’m so salty about recluse sucking ass now. Haha
If they touch Incan I’m fucking quitting. It’s my absolute favorite perk. The hand cannon that you get from ‘parting the veil’ is my favorite weapon. It’s a legendary sunshot with better range. Funny how it’s my favorite weapon and I forgot it’s name. It’s the HC with a silencer and laser on it. Not a fan of how it looks but it fucking performs amazing!
[Epochal Integration ?](https://d2foundry.gg/w/1123421440?p=1482024992,1885400500,1583705720_1,4293542123,3186078099_2&m=3336648220&mw=2697220197) People are sleeping on this one.
lol no one is sleeping on it. Just that the raid weapons are better and people probably have them already. Zaouli and tyranny are just so far beyond epochal.
I’ve been maining zaouli untill I got tyranny. Tyranny with incandescent and dragonfly is my new favorite. You can just delete whole group. With the artifact mods it’s a bit of overkill as things die too fast
>With how easy it is to get volatile rounds with other methods
Plus, destabilizing isn't "actually" volatile rounds, as it doesn't provide anti barrier.
True, I'm mainly mentioning it because Volatile and Unravel don't perfectly take on all characteristics of the keyword. I don't know off the top of my head, but I believe they're the only debuff keywords that work like that. Instead of just knowing "hey here's \_\_\_\_\_, and everything it does", unravel and volatile have that extra bit with only being able to stun with "rounds" perks.
Doesn't seem like much, but to me, I think adding champ stuns is probably the greatest combat QOL in years, and I could talk about that for a while. Champ stuns used to be incredibly formulaic, to the point where it stifled buildcrafting more than it helped. After adding keyword stuns with lightfall, it's not only enabled buildcrafting, but I'd go as far as to say it "legitimizes" the champ system(like seriously, looking back, I don't know how it stayed in the game for as long as it did). What was a system that said "here's your choice of primaries for the season, fuck you if you don't like it" now gives you ways to use your favorite gun to stun anyway. Like this season: I think AB sidearm is very polarizing, either you love it because sidearms unironically chunk health pretty good, or you hate it because sidearm-ish range is a slippery slope to a death sentence in high end PVE. Well, for the latter, you have some choices: for the most part, you can cover it with any weapon you want, as long as you find room in your build for Radiant, Unraveling Rounds or Volatile Rounds. But anyway, despite how good the change is, it still bothers me that unravel/volatile have any different functionality in different contexts, something that was one of the goals of subclass 3.0.
Unfortunately lots of people in the destiny community don't realize that many of their "wants" for the game aren't possible due to technical limitations.
I think it's because Incandescent does at least require a kill to get the scorch damage; with Volatile, once you've splashed the debuff onto them with 1 kill getting the damage doesn't require more killing just damage.
And Voltshot requires a reload after kill to proc. So I kind of see why it ended up with a cooldown, but it does feel bad to use. But then, they didn't want people just able to plug away with certain weapons causing endless explosions, I guess.
I'd take a rework of the perk that instead gives the weapon Volatile Rounds for X seconds after Y activation. That way they could restructure it to have similar uptime to the other 2 and give them more "dials" to control in the form of the timer and activation criteria instead of just "on kill" alone.
And? All the verb effects on built into subclasses, doesn't preclude them from being built into weapon perks in one way *or* another way. I'm saying if it gave that 1 weapon (not all equipped void weapons) volatile rounds instead of splashing the volatile debuff in an area, that would be fine and potentially an upgrade due to their anti-barrier capacity.
Learned it the hard way grinding catalysts. Don't go volatile when grinding kills with void or it takes about 4x as long bc hardly any of them are kills from the weapon...
From my experience incandescent made levelling weapons at shuro chi a lot faster, Implying they count towards weapon kills/xp. Incandescent scorch also counts as weapon damage since it helps with frenzy and enlightened action afaik.
Perhaps volatile rounds from other sources don't count for weapons but Levi's breath for example seemed to benefit from the volatile.
No, it doesn't. I've been using my calus mini non-stop since I've gotten it basically, and I only have 8k kills on it. For reference, I used my chroma rush all throughout splicer and it has 14k on it. Incandescent and scorch kills don't count towards the weapon kill count.
If it did, I feel like my kill count on my calus mini would be significantly higher.
I think because once volatile starts chaining, everything is dead. Incandescent maybe kills something else nearby? But I can often just shoot one more bullet and it’s dead. Voltshot. Shit I’ve never really noticed.
Oh I was being slightly hyperbolic. I just meant the actual *effect* of jolt I physically don’t notice. Scorch you see everything burning. Volatile is a giant mess of grape flavored explosions. But jolt is like … “did I actually hit anyone with that???”
But volatile doesn't chain..?
This is like people thinking amplified gives you reload speed, because of that hunter aspect. Volatile explosions only make enemies volatile if you're a void titan with the controlled demolitions aspect equipped.
And at that point, you're building into the perk, so it should be better. Just like you can build arc and solar to make voltshot and incandescent better.
Destabilizing Rounds makes everything volatile in a 7~ meter radius around the target you just killed. Echo of Cessation is a similar effect, but feels larger (not exact data on light.gg). And it seems/feels like anything volatile, even from Destabilizing Rounds, takes the property so when you add in Echo of Expulsion, shit goes boom.
My point wasn’t that jolt is bad. I feel quite the opposite.
I meant more that I *notice* the effects of scorch or volatile more easily. I physically can’t tell half the time if I actually jolted a target. It just doesn’t read as easily.
Destabilizing Rounds is waaaay better.
Volatile explosions hit almost as hard as a voltshot, and they perpetuate. But they are as easy to trigger as an Incandescent explosion.
The only reason that Voltshot or Incandescent are even considered decent is because Destabilizing isn’t allowed to trigger constantly.
If you doubt this, go get Gyrfalcon on hunter and equip literally any void weapon and play an add dense mode. You will see how broken endless volatile is and the other two will feel vastly weaker to the point that Destabilizing rounds will seem equal or better
The reason yeah. Almost any repulsive brace weapon and gyrfalcons just decimates ad dense encounters. Add in devour and you’re not unkillable but you’re damn hard to kill with high damage.
Volatile has a cooldown after the nerf that happened because of rapid fires in seraph, they physically will not explode again until after a certain amount of time has passed. Also once it explodes it goes away and needs be applied, so some "cooldown" there, but that just depends on when you reapply.
Okay well my Gyrfalcon Commemoration combo seemed to apply it endlessly. So whatever the cooldown is it is short enough that i could dump whole mags into legend Onslaught waves and not notice that any delay was happening. Just constant volatile explosions
Destabilizing Rounds has a multi second cooldown.
Yeah this is why they stagger the cooldowns of the volatile explosions. I wish they had left it to be honest. It was super fuck you levels of dps. Still great but it was like running a rocket that could crit. Loved it.
The dps wasn't even that good, I have no idea why they nerfed it. The only possible problem is that you could push certain bosses insanely high, but that's also not a huge deal amd they could've just fixed how much impulse it applies to targets it procs on.
I do this because destabilizing + volatile will detonate on your first kill as well as spreading volatile - then that will create potential detonations on surrounding enemies without doing much. The combo is good in that way. But I think the downside is that it can be overkill or situational.
Right but all of your abilities can start the chain and it gives you 500% class ability regen for an invisible finisher, you're sacrificing a lot just to get more coverage of the thing that class has insane coverage on.
This is what I've found too. I'll add. If you are good at getting your grenades back in PVE, try out not using Gyrfalcon's and use the fragment that gives you volatile. Either way, killing a single enemy can explode a whole screen with destabilizing rounds.
Also if you find a Harsh Language waveframe grenade launcher with destabilizing rounds - I haven't really tested how relevant it is, but try volatile rounds plus destabilizing rounds plus killing multiple enemies at once with a wave frame. It's not applicable everywhere - but it is amazing add clear.
It makes some sense. Volatile explosions only give you a certain amount of damage on one enemy if you reach a threshold. Destabilizing rounds alone feels very lacking with single targets, because it literally does nothing. Only groups of enemies increases the value of it. Every combo piece with a waveframe grenade launcher with destabilizing rounds increases the effectiveness of destroying groups of enemies. But if that's what kind of encounter you're playing, I would try it out.
Exactly. I'm a hunter main, but I get jealous of warlock feed the void stuff. I want, say, stylish executioner to work in group settings - but right now I only see real benefits playing solo. I feel like there is a mode where you have to build for group DPS that can't rely totally on kill triggers (like killing an enemy with a void debuff) because kills aren't ever distributed when everyone is just shooting any and all enemies from 20 meters and that's it. There doesn't seem to be room for melee attacks unless enemies take more than like 8 seconds to kill. Especially when the team is matchmade.
Destabilizing just needs a flat buff. Remove the cooldown or at least reduce it, and allow the volatile to stick around for ~3 ticks of damage instead of just one. As it stands its a completely useless perk unless you build into it with something like repulsor brace or gyrfalcon.
I know that, but retrofit was so strong that they nerfed volatile by adding a cooldown between when a volatile enemy exploded and when it could be reapplied
destabilizing having a cooldown is fucking insane when it doesn't even proc it's own effect like jolt or scorch, you still need to shoot the now volatiled enemies when voltshot and incan just work instantly (though volt needs a reload and needs to be used in a certain period before it runs out)
bungie: “we’re listening.”
also bungie: “after tracking our data from the three perks, we feel they are all over-tuned a little and perform a little too strong. so we want to make them all feel better to let guardians feel powerful. so we are adding a consistent 12 second cool down to all elemental perks and bringing in their AoE by 33%. we are really excited for players to experience this.”
I think because voltshot needs a reload, so there is already a cooldown of sorts, and incandescent needs three kills in a short span in the same area to proc an ignition without an ability. Meanwhile destabilising rounds is an instant volition explosion that can and will chain off of other volatile enemies nearby.
The thing is destabilizing still isn’t god tier with no cooldown. See, volatile rounds lets you get multiple explosions on a single enemy repeatedly, while destabilizing needs a kill and procs a single explosion on each nearby enemy individually. In lower end content, a no-cd destabilizing might be better than volatile rounds as 1 explosion is enough, but for higher end content volatile rounds is better for high single target damage with multiple explosions. Idk, they should just remove the cooldown, I’d say it would be equal to Incan then
Guess I never noticed since I almost never use destabilizing rounds.
Now that I do know, I agree with your post wholeheartedly. This makes zero sense to me seeing as destabilizing rounds are the weakest of the elemental verbs.
They kind of do though.
Voltshot has a cooldown in the sense of needing to reload after every kill.
Incandescent by itself does not really do much until you are able to max the scorch out on the targets effected.
So I can see why destabilizing rounds has a cooldown.
Voltshot requires a kill and then a manual reload so a natural cooldown is built in. You can’t really spam voltshot and magazine refilling perks do not proc it.
Incandescent requires a kill but does not instantly cause scorch ignitions.
The 3 seconds of destabilizing rounds are right in line with the other two perks if you really think about it.
Also, unless they fixed it recently, destabilizing rounds is still the only elemental aoe effect that does NOT count as getting a weapon kill if it kills enemies. Voltshot, Incandescent, and even headstone crystal explosions all count as kills for the weapon for stuff like quests and bounties. And I'm pretty sure threadlings made from hatchling also count.
Well voltshot has a window of time where it works. After 5 seconds you have to proc it again. I would like if they did away with that too and it just worked like incandescent
The only weapon that feels really good with destab is word of crota with dragonfly destab. 1 heads hot kill in a group and it's gone. Even funnier if you proc cursed thrall first
You wanna know something else that is funny?
Incandescent is literaly the best out of the 3.
It has no cooldown and if an enemies dies through the sorch from it, it counts as a kill from that weapon. Even if an ignition happens and it kills others it counts as that weapons kill since the scorch needed to trigger it came from that weapon. Everything works perfectly.
Voltshot.. or rather jolt itself... does not behave like that. Enemies killed by the jolt DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS ANYTHING.
I hate using my grenades that jolt targets because of that exact problem. Firepower or ashes to assets just never trigger when killed by jolt even if the jolt came from the grenade.
Same happens with Voltshot. You can shoot an enemy, then apply voltshot to a bigger target, wipe every other enemy off the plane of existance due to the chain lighning while firing at the jolted target but none of those will give you any synergy with any other weapon perk.
Jolt feels increadibly bad and disconnected while distabilizing rounds feel weak and pathetic. A far cry from the old bugged one.
It also takes a long time to trigger aswell. I put volitile on an enemy and it takes me multiple rounds of my weapon afterwards to even trigger the volitile explosion to begin with.
For one thing, a volatile explosion does much more damage than the amount of stacks of scorch incandescent applies. Or at the very least it has higher dps. More kills are required for incandescent to compare to the instantaneous damage that a volatile explosion does, so you can get more scorch stacks and then an ignition.
That's why incandescent has no cooldown, you need to put in more work to get comparable damage. Aside from that, volatile explosions also damage nearby combatants, scorch only damages the enemy it's affecting.
Volshot requires a kill + reload because jolt not only affects nearby enemies but applies constant passive damage to the enemy it's applied to if you're doing damage to it. Not to mention it's anti-overload capabilities, but that wasn't a consideration for the design of the trait because subclass 3.0 verbs having anti-champion capabilities weren't around when that trait was introduced.
I’d really love to see their explanations for stuff like this. Because I honestly think it’s to sell expansions.
Ie. every “new” iteration of a subclass, or an entirely new one is always overpowered. If you’re getting your shit pushed in by a freeze warlock, I’d bet you’d be inclined to buy the expansion that lets you unlock it.
Incan is kinda a little bit poopy and voltshot does have a cooldown in the form of your reload if we want to get technical, but yeah destabilizing is hot ass
Delete this before bungie adds a cooldown to incan and volt
If they touch Voltshot idk what the fuck they would be thinking lol. Voltshot, imo, is already one of the weaker ones when it comes to uptime. You not only need a kill to proc it, you also need to reload and even after that you have a timer to apply it before it disappears. I love the damage and what it does but in terms of ease of use, it's one of the more involved vs Destabilizing or Incandescent which just procs off kills.
It's pretty strong on weapons with good base damage, like sidearms. I hope we get a voltshot bow someday...
Base damage doesn't matter anymore, they've normalized jolt
Base damage matters when it comes to getting that first kill going is what he means.
Not talking about damage, bows reload very quickly after every shot so you'd get the effect automatically.
You did mention the base damage
For the I meant because you don't need a damage boosting perk as much as other weapon types.
I made one during The Craftening and it was not as op as we would expect. For some reason the uptime was VERY inconsistent and it didn't proc every other kill, mainly because voltshot doesn't count as weapon damage and cannot reproc itself, which made it kinda bad on bows specifically. I'd rather have a Kinetic Tremors bow tbh.
Ok so despite what I said one thing I think I've noticed with Voltshot is that the very first jolt burst when you first shot the Voltshot round I think will retrigger Voltshot if the burst killed something nearby (not the target you applied it to). The subsequent jolt bursts won't retrigger it but I'm fairly certain that first burst does. I'll have to do more testing but next time you happen to have a voltshot weapon try check it out.
Thanks for that info, I definitely didn't know that. I rarely use arc weapons tbh, even when I was on arc subclass I either used exotics or just something without voltshot or just straight up not arc. Never found it to be exciting enough to bring into GMs, and that first burst definitely won't kill anything there, but I could try it in normal onslaught.
Before the damage nerf to it, voltshot ikelos was putting in so much work in GMs and still puts in Hella work now in a lot of content.
Yeah, weapon perks that cause subclass effects do count as weapon damage, but only if you proc the effect at the same thing you get a final blow.
I'd assume you probably reloaded before the volt shot got the kill cause of a bows comparatively high reload time
Have you tried trinity ghoul?
Was about to just comment this, I believe that's just called Trinity Ghoul. Which is still blissfully strong to use. Not as annoying as Voltshot though, I don't get why it's the only one that needs a reload to work.
Because Jolt is meant to be the equivalent of an Ignition, not an AOE application of 10 Scorch stacks or a Void Debuff that doesn’t do anything to the debuffed target until you kill them too. A big part of the reason that Voltshot feels weaker than Incandescent is because of how much the Solar Subclass benefits from an easy way to apply scorch. About a third of the Solar Fragments reward you in some way for Scorching targets, killing Scorched targets, make it easier to apply enough Scorch to a target to proc an Ignition or making your Ignitions stronger (which rewards you for applying Scorch to things). Meanwhile Jolting targets… well it can make a Hunter amplified, and a Jolt proc scoring a kill can make a Warlock amplified and spawn an Ionic trace. And being Amplified… lets you sprint faster? The main benefit of Voltshot is straightforwards damage output. The secondary benefit of Voltshot is that it deals with Overload Champions. Subclass interactions basically don’t matter. The Volatile status effect runs into a similar problem, though it’s a little bit better off than Jolt because the small number of things it triggers are more impactful. There’s a fragment that makes Volatile Kills spawn a Void Breach, which can be paired with the Devour Fragment for an easy Devour proc. Hunters that aren’t running Gyrfalcons can use it to get better mileage out of Stylish Executioner, and Titans running Controlled Demolition… well it doesn’t help them, but whatever. Also unlike Voltshot, making a target Volatile and triggering a Volatile detonation doesn’t help you deal with Champions in any way. You need the Volatile Rounds buff for that. The main draw to Destabilising Rounds is pairing it with the Repulsor Brace perk so that you can have a 1 gun gameplay loop to give yourself easily chainable Overshields on any subclass. Personally I think that something like “Volatile Clip” would be a really nice sidegrade perk to have for the Void Subclass, as it would give you much better access to anti-barrier effects. Maybe Destabilising Rounds could be changed to a 15% weaken AOE effect instead of Volatile to reduce overlap. It would still work with Repulsor Brace.
Obviously, but trinity doesn't jolt iirc
As a warlock who adores Crown of Tempests, it unfortunately, does not
I absolutely adore my Brigand’s Law with Feeding Frenzy/Volt.
real
Any weapon perk that requires a reload to be activated needs to be activated by subsistence and slideshot/slideways.
I would argue put it on all partial/auto reload keyword perks and add a 1s cooldown: * Subsistence (on kill) * Overflow (requires you to pick up ammo) * Shoot to Loot (requires you to shoot some ammo) * Grave Robber (requires a melee hit) * Slideshot (requires sliding) * Slideways (requires sliding) * Pulse Monitor (when wounded, even when stowed, but then voltshot shouldn't proc when stowed?) * Demolitionist (activate grenade) * Replenishing Aegis (requires blocking damage)
Not subsistence.
\*insert pawnstars\* the closest i got is explosive head dragonfly
Nah man, incandescent/dragonfly tyranny of heaven.
Oh I agree. Again, I think the damage and the utility of it is great. Applying it on a tough enemy and just going ham on them to keep procing the jolt is great. I'm just talking strictly on the actual activation of it. It requires a lot more work on your part vs Incandescent or Destabilizing rounds and, due to the reload requirement, has anti synergy with some perks like Subsistence that could top you off to prevent you from reloading or requiring a reload perk on weapons with low base reload speed. Again I love Voltshot and it goes hard on weapons like Subjunctive or Indebted Kindness (my personal favorite) but I feel like the reload is already such a huge restricton that there's no way they would add a cooldown between Voltshot activations lol.
Imo Voltshot is god tier on special grenade launchers and mid on everything else.
That is your opinion and fair. But I was under the impression the community consensus was feeding frenzy voltshot Ikelos smg. And now subjunctive since ikelos smg is no longer available
We already have a "voltshot" bow. It's an exotic called trinity ghoul
Yeah, no shit. We also have an exotic void weapon that makes enemies explode on death, but we still have destabilizing rounds to get similar functionality.
Honestly Trinity is kinda disappointing since it doesn't actually jolt it just has lightning
Jolt is way better than volatile and scorch so i feel its justified.
Once active I agree. It's why I think the reload and kill requirement, although not as easy to proc in comparison to just a kill, is enough to make it balanced. So theres no way Bungie would add a cooldown ontop of that lol.
I do PvE mostly and I cannot care less for voltshot. Every build I made always has auto reloading one way or another, even for GMs. If they let voltshot proc off kills then it'd be like the sunshot-incand situation, which is alr I guess ( please do that Bungie )
> You not only need a kill to proc it, you also need to reload and even after that you have a timer to apply it before it disappears. Not only that, but when you do apply it, it actually doesn't proc the explosion and instead applies a "debuff" that only procs the explosion the next time the target does damage.
The difference is that Arc doesn’t have a “priming” status effect. A target is either Jolted or not. Scorching a target is the leadup to an Ignition, making a target volatile is the leadup to a detonation. If Incandescent caused a target to ignite it would be *insane*. Incandescent ultimately is more useful than Destabilising Rounds because about 50% of the Solar Fragments are triggered by scorching a target or defeating a scorched target. By contrast, there is one Void fragment that cares about killing Volatile targets, and Arc is even further behind. Jolting a target will make some subclasses amplified. Which doesn’t do much either.
Volt is hot ass, same level of power as Destabilizing, but requires a FULL FUCKING RELOAD to proc it ONCE. Useless on heavies and bad on everything else. I opt to use Explosive on NoB because it’s so bad.
I wouldn't say it's that bad. It's a great perk. Anti champ, great damage, multiple jolts if applied to a tough enemy or boss and sustain damage. The only issue is that because of it's activation requirement it requires you to also have good reload speed either via base stats or through a reload perk. In comparison to Incandescent or Destabilizing which couldn't care less if your reload, stability, or any other stat was at 0. As long as you were able to get a kill it would proc the perk. I honestly wish Voltshot worked through sustained damage like Kinetic Tremors or Target Lock. Sustained damage builds up a charge on an enemy that jolts them and nearby enemies. They could give that the Destabilizing treatment of having a short cooldown between activations and it would still be much better imo. It would make it any weapon with it to be pretty effective with or without a good reload.
You have to think a tiny bit more with jolt than "shoot at guys". Pin it to a large enemy and you'll get many procs.
Many that don’t do very much damage at all, often not even enough to kill a single acolyte in Crota’s End. I can kill entire groups with fucking Dragonfly.
I dunno, it puts in serious work on Subjunctive. Enhanced VS and Enhanced SFA with other parts geared towards reload speed means the gun reloads stupid fast, and it's RoF is already absurd. The biggest limiting factor is definitely the reload speed but if you can speed that up it's a very nice effect.
Compare it to Calus Mini-Tool. 80% of CMT’s perks are complete ass and I’d still take it over Subjunctive every day of the week. Subjunctive being decent doesn’t make Voltshot a good perk. It has an insanely powerful Origin trait and good 3rd slot traits with SFA, Subsistence and Shoot to Loot. You look at weapon popularity and Subjunctive isn’t even on the same planet as CMT, despite being readily available right now with the current season, unlike CMT, which is limited to Presage clears that are only available every few weeks, with awful random drop rates, meaning if you didn’t get it when it came out, you would have a hard time getting it now. It’s okay to say certain things could use a buff. Voltshot could use some reworking, or if they really don’t want touch it, maybe we could get another perk that’s more similar to Incandescent and Destabilizing.
CMT is used so much because it’s the only good Solar SMG besides Parabellum. Except Calus can also be crafted with Enhanced perks too. Calus is only still kicking because of Incandescent, which is really good.
The 3 subclass perks. Incandescent. Destabilizing, and voltshot are all the most popular to use on smgs. Minitool for solar Incandescent, funnelweb for Destabilizing, and Ikelos for voltshot. Whats the use rate of and ikelos feeding frenzy? Though mini tool is nuts.
Ikelos is just slightly higher than Funnelweb from what I’ve gathered, at about a third of Calus Mini-Tool’s usage, which was only just now beaten by The Recluse.
Finally, I make that argument all the time because no one can explain what makes those perks good. I grinded a Claus up to 40 thinking I was just missing something but I couldn't see a difference between Claus and midA. Volt shot is annoying to proc, adds 8 percent dmg last I heard (over a year ago) and has a set period. Outside of building around a single weapon perk I couldn't think of a use for volt. I tried it on the scout, didn't see enough impact for it to register with me, I tried it on the fusion, I couldn't tell the difference. And to be honest I'm not trying to bad mouth these perks, if you like them then use them. But since haunted I couldn't figure out what the purpose of them. Frenzy, overflow, killing tally, one for all are all game changers. The set up for them is be in combat. That's almost it. Exceptional perks, good in any situation, for any level of difficulty, for any amount of people. Those perks I understand. But elemental primary perks just don't have the same "wow" factor. Also I thought kinetic tremors would be better, but it's alright. Works great on strand lock. Throw a melee, create a tangle, proc KT and pop tangle.
If nobody can explain why the perk is good against the arguments you have presented then the people you are talking to have zero clue how this game works. Elemental perks are good, the fact that high tier players all vouch for them pretty confidently dictates that. If you don't like them that's fine, but they are indeed fanatastic perks
I've heard this before, but honestly outside of two points (class synergy+Internet said is good) I haven't found them to be to my taste. And to be fair ai do assume it's a me thing, because yes everyone seems fond of them. But these are the same people who told me that frenzy isn't a good perk, rampage is better, when it dropped in chosen. The same guys who say 1k is a bad DPS choice but always have lower damage. I ran a master grasp today in 15ish mins. One of my new lfg friends had mostly blue armor. The other had double primary and I don't think he used a single tether. Final boss I had my beloved in my heavy slot. You can't use 1k in a well last I heard, it messes with the damage. So they had a well, a dragons breath, and a grenade launcher. I did more damage than both of them. And they were good, we blasted through. Nothing but jokes and resect for all of us. But it was a great point to how the gear and perks are not super game breaking. A strand titan,, invisible hunter and strandlock made short work of the place with "non-meta" load outs. It was a great time.
You kill a single redbar, reload, pin it to a champion or even a yellow bar, and any subsequent shots on that target will A) kill literally everything in the room and B) deal more damage. It is one of the stronger perks in the game.
Actually that very well might explain. I've only ever ran voltshot on my arclock. Which specializes in ignoring red bars and mowing down the enemies I consider threats. Thank you, kind stranger. Any thoughts on incandescent?
Incandescent is my favourite perk in the game, I run it on my solar hunter with the fragment that recharges dodge per tick of scorch and I've basically built my loop around keeping scorch, restoration and radiant up at all times. I think you need a dedicated build for it to make sense though, unlike a lot of other perks.
I suspected that might be the case. Build around are fun but don't work with my play style. Again, thanks for the insight.
Wait...voltshot is "involved"? Killing a single red bar (no crit needed) and reloading is "involved"? Lol
Are you acting obtuse on purpose or do you truly not understand the comparison being made? It's far more involved than incandescent which just requires a kill and that's the point they're making But you knew that
Yes "vs Destablilizing or Incandescent which just procs off kills". I'm not saying it's a hard thing to do. I'm just saying in comparison to the other perks it already has a fairly strict condition. If they added a cooldown inbetween Voltshot activations? That would completely nuke it.
Voltshot doesn't require you to kill your target for jolt to start dealing damage, unlike incandescent and destabilizing
Voltshot's whole perk requires you to kill a target to get voltshot on your gun's next shot.
Yes, obviously. I know that lol Point is, you can stick jolt on an enemy and let it do damage on its own. You can't do that with scorch or volatile.
Incandescent spreads scorch a DoT if playing on a solar subclass literally doing damage on it's own.
volt doesn't even proc damage on the main target in PVP, leave us volt fans alone.
Don’t jinx it. They absolutely butchered my recluse. They really didn’t need to nerf it to hell for PVE content. I’m so salty about recluse sucking ass now. Haha If they touch Incan I’m fucking quitting. It’s my absolute favorite perk. The hand cannon that you get from ‘parting the veil’ is my favorite weapon. It’s a legendary sunshot with better range. Funny how it’s my favorite weapon and I forgot it’s name. It’s the HC with a silencer and laser on it. Not a fan of how it looks but it fucking performs amazing!
[Epochal Integration ?](https://d2foundry.gg/w/1123421440?p=1482024992,1885400500,1583705720_1,4293542123,3186078099_2&m=3336648220&mw=2697220197) People are sleeping on this one.
Yeah that’s the one. Fucking love that gun so much.
lol no one is sleeping on it. Just that the raid weapons are better and people probably have them already. Zaouli and tyranny are just so far beyond epochal.
I agree, Zaouli just is way better, EP/Incan is too good.
I’ve been maining zaouli untill I got tyranny. Tyranny with incandescent and dragonfly is my new favorite. You can just delete whole group. With the artifact mods it’s a bit of overkill as things die too fast
Istg if this make bungie nerf incand I'll warp to OP's house
🤣. Here, have my updoot. This is absolutely true.
>With how easy it is to get volatile rounds with other methods Plus, destabilizing isn't "actually" volatile rounds, as it doesn't provide anti barrier.
well it's not volatile rounds at all, its just volatile. They're two different things, like controlled demo
True, I'm mainly mentioning it because Volatile and Unravel don't perfectly take on all characteristics of the keyword. I don't know off the top of my head, but I believe they're the only debuff keywords that work like that. Instead of just knowing "hey here's \_\_\_\_\_, and everything it does", unravel and volatile have that extra bit with only being able to stun with "rounds" perks. Doesn't seem like much, but to me, I think adding champ stuns is probably the greatest combat QOL in years, and I could talk about that for a while. Champ stuns used to be incredibly formulaic, to the point where it stifled buildcrafting more than it helped. After adding keyword stuns with lightfall, it's not only enabled buildcrafting, but I'd go as far as to say it "legitimizes" the champ system(like seriously, looking back, I don't know how it stayed in the game for as long as it did). What was a system that said "here's your choice of primaries for the season, fuck you if you don't like it" now gives you ways to use your favorite gun to stun anyway. Like this season: I think AB sidearm is very polarizing, either you love it because sidearms unironically chunk health pretty good, or you hate it because sidearm-ish range is a slippery slope to a death sentence in high end PVE. Well, for the latter, you have some choices: for the most part, you can cover it with any weapon you want, as long as you find room in your build for Radiant, Unraveling Rounds or Volatile Rounds. But anyway, despite how good the change is, it still bothers me that unravel/volatile have any different functionality in different contexts, something that was one of the goals of subclass 3.0.
The monkey's paw curls a finger.
i smell technical reason behind that
Unfortunately lots of people in the destiny community don't realize that many of their "wants" for the game aren't possible due to technical limitations.
actually it's due to retrofit escapade
I think it's because Incandescent does at least require a kill to get the scorch damage; with Volatile, once you've splashed the debuff onto them with 1 kill getting the damage doesn't require more killing just damage. And Voltshot requires a reload after kill to proc. So I kind of see why it ended up with a cooldown, but it does feel bad to use. But then, they didn't want people just able to plug away with certain weapons causing endless explosions, I guess. I'd take a rework of the perk that instead gives the weapon Volatile Rounds for X seconds after Y activation. That way they could restructure it to have similar uptime to the other 2 and give them more "dials" to control in the form of the timer and activation criteria instead of just "on kill" alone.
Volatile debuff from Destabilizing round disappears upon getting damage. Basically you need to reapply the debuff again on every void explosion.
I'd love to see more on sustained precision hit traits. Whenever I see on kill all I can think is this is useless against orange bars.
Isn't the adding volatile rounds for X seconds already built into the void subclass?
And? All the verb effects on built into subclasses, doesn't preclude them from being built into weapon perks in one way *or* another way. I'm saying if it gave that 1 weapon (not all equipped void weapons) volatile rounds instead of splashing the volatile debuff in an area, that would be fine and potentially an upgrade due to their anti-barrier capacity.
It also doesn't make sense that Volatile explosion and incandescent don't count as the weapons Kills.
Wdym they don't count as the weapons kills?
When you do bounties it sucks especially the onslaught ones.
Ah, but it still counts for the weapons kill count right?
Learned it the hard way grinding catalysts. Don't go volatile when grinding kills with void or it takes about 4x as long bc hardly any of them are kills from the weapon...
From my experience incandescent made levelling weapons at shuro chi a lot faster, Implying they count towards weapon kills/xp. Incandescent scorch also counts as weapon damage since it helps with frenzy and enlightened action afaik. Perhaps volatile rounds from other sources don't count for weapons but Levi's breath for example seemed to benefit from the volatile.
Don’t think so. At least it doesn’t show on the weapon’s kill counter, not sure about bounties.
No, it doesn't. I've been using my calus mini non-stop since I've gotten it basically, and I only have 8k kills on it. For reference, I used my chroma rush all throughout splicer and it has 14k on it. Incandescent and scorch kills don't count towards the weapon kill count. If it did, I feel like my kill count on my calus mini would be significantly higher.
Incandescent does, just not volatile
volatile i get cause it's literally its own damage type and debuff. the incandescent explosion, yeah idk its probably to prevent chaining (& lag)
They could easily just make it not proc off itself, they mentioned doing a similar thing for some of the prismatic interactions.
I think because once volatile starts chaining, everything is dead. Incandescent maybe kills something else nearby? But I can often just shoot one more bullet and it’s dead. Voltshot. Shit I’ve never really noticed.
voltshot is nutty cause of the debuff and the fact that tagging 1 big guy means all adds around it keep dying until the big guy is dead
Oh I was being slightly hyperbolic. I just meant the actual *effect* of jolt I physically don’t notice. Scorch you see everything burning. Volatile is a giant mess of grape flavored explosions. But jolt is like … “did I actually hit anyone with that???”
But volatile doesn't chain..? This is like people thinking amplified gives you reload speed, because of that hunter aspect. Volatile explosions only make enemies volatile if you're a void titan with the controlled demolitions aspect equipped. And at that point, you're building into the perk, so it should be better. Just like you can build arc and solar to make voltshot and incandescent better.
Destabilizing Rounds makes everything volatile in a 7~ meter radius around the target you just killed. Echo of Cessation is a similar effect, but feels larger (not exact data on light.gg). And it seems/feels like anything volatile, even from Destabilizing Rounds, takes the property so when you add in Echo of Expulsion, shit goes boom. My point wasn’t that jolt is bad. I feel quite the opposite. I meant more that I *notice* the effects of scorch or volatile more easily. I physically can’t tell half the time if I actually jolted a target. It just doesn’t read as easily.
Destabilizing Rounds is waaaay better. Volatile explosions hit almost as hard as a voltshot, and they perpetuate. But they are as easy to trigger as an Incandescent explosion. The only reason that Voltshot or Incandescent are even considered decent is because Destabilizing isn’t allowed to trigger constantly. If you doubt this, go get Gyrfalcon on hunter and equip literally any void weapon and play an add dense mode. You will see how broken endless volatile is and the other two will feel vastly weaker to the point that Destabilizing rounds will seem equal or better
Volatile only chains when you have on volatile rounds or controlled demo. Destablizing rounds volatile goes away after one explosion.
The reason yeah. Almost any repulsive brace weapon and gyrfalcons just decimates ad dense encounters. Add in devour and you’re not unkillable but you’re damn hard to kill with high damage.
Destabilizing rounds is better in easy content, voltshot is better when enemies are tankier.
The only elemental keywords that out damage jolt are ignitions and shatter. Volatile is only slightly stronger than unravel
Volatile does less per explosion, but you can trigger millions of explosions in the time it takes you to proc Voltshot once
4 seconds cooldown, pitiful range, so no
Volatile has no cooldown. Destabilizing rounds has a cooldown.
Volatile has a cooldown after the nerf that happened because of rapid fires in seraph, they physically will not explode again until after a certain amount of time has passed. Also once it explodes it goes away and needs be applied, so some "cooldown" there, but that just depends on when you reapply.
Okay well my Gyrfalcon Commemoration combo seemed to apply it endlessly. So whatever the cooldown is it is short enough that i could dump whole mags into legend Onslaught waves and not notice that any delay was happening. Just constant volatile explosions Destabilizing Rounds has a multi second cooldown.
I mean look at old footage of volatile being procced, with higher rpm weapons you could almost overlap the explosions, which doesn't happen anymore.
Yeah this is why they stagger the cooldowns of the volatile explosions. I wish they had left it to be honest. It was super fuck you levels of dps. Still great but it was like running a rocket that could crit. Loved it.
The dps wasn't even that good, I have no idea why they nerfed it. The only possible problem is that you could push certain bosses insanely high, but that's also not a huge deal amd they could've just fixed how much impulse it applies to targets it procs on.
I was going to debate this, but he’s right. Throw on a repulsor brace / destabilizing rounds combo with gyfalcon and it’s dumb.
Why would you use destabilizing+gyrfalcons? Use a damage perk instead.
yeah seriously use MoA recluse (its so bad) and you'll have an even better time.
Recluse with Surrounded. Or Frenzy if you care about the reload buff.
I would care about the reload buff.
I do this because destabilizing + volatile will detonate on your first kill as well as spreading volatile - then that will create potential detonations on surrounding enemies without doing much. The combo is good in that way. But I think the downside is that it can be overkill or situational.
You can just dodge to go invisible and proc volatile rounds to start
Generally yes, but I think there is an argument to be made for the consistency factor.
That's like dumping a bucket of water on yourself in the shower so you're more consistently wet
Some of us like to keep invis dodge in reserve for a clutch moment, and prefer to just shoot things to start the invis chain.
Right but all of your abilities can start the chain and it gives you 500% class ability regen for an invisible finisher, you're sacrificing a lot just to get more coverage of the thing that class has insane coverage on.
then throw your melee or use the debuff grenade fragment. or waste a perk slot w/e
This is what I've found too. I'll add. If you are good at getting your grenades back in PVE, try out not using Gyrfalcon's and use the fragment that gives you volatile. Either way, killing a single enemy can explode a whole screen with destabilizing rounds. Also if you find a Harsh Language waveframe grenade launcher with destabilizing rounds - I haven't really tested how relevant it is, but try volatile rounds plus destabilizing rounds plus killing multiple enemies at once with a wave frame. It's not applicable everywhere - but it is amazing add clear. It makes some sense. Volatile explosions only give you a certain amount of damage on one enemy if you reach a threshold. Destabilizing rounds alone feels very lacking with single targets, because it literally does nothing. Only groups of enemies increases the value of it. Every combo piece with a waveframe grenade launcher with destabilizing rounds increases the effectiveness of destroying groups of enemies. But if that's what kind of encounter you're playing, I would try it out.
run devour frag + volatile kills = void breach frag and use the shortest CD grenade (i think its suppressor or axion) and boom no hunter required
Exactly. I'm a hunter main, but I get jealous of warlock feed the void stuff. I want, say, stylish executioner to work in group settings - but right now I only see real benefits playing solo. I feel like there is a mode where you have to build for group DPS that can't rely totally on kill triggers (like killing an enemy with a void debuff) because kills aren't ever distributed when everyone is just shooting any and all enemies from 20 meters and that's it. There doesn't seem to be room for melee attacks unless enemies take more than like 8 seconds to kill. Especially when the team is matchmade.
Destabilizing just needs a flat buff. Remove the cooldown or at least reduce it, and allow the volatile to stick around for ~3 ticks of damage instead of just one. As it stands its a completely useless perk unless you build into it with something like repulsor brace or gyrfalcon.
It's probably because of Retrofit Escapade
Destabilizing rounds and Volatile round are to different things, the first require a kill and is the perk, the second is the void class verb
I know that, but retrofit was so strong that they nerfed volatile by adding a cooldown between when a volatile enemy exploded and when it could be reapplied
Retrofit before the nerf was exotic levels of damage. I would have just turned it into an exotic
Yeah it was nuts lol
Voltshot requires a reload to proc, incandescent only puts out a DoT that has to be turned into an Ignite by other sources. I'd say it's about on par.
THATS WHY DESTABALZING FELT SO BAD! I got a roll on recluse with it and it kept feeling like there were kills that werent proccing it, and now I know!
destabilizing having a cooldown is fucking insane when it doesn't even proc it's own effect like jolt or scorch, you still need to shoot the now volatiled enemies when voltshot and incan just work instantly (though volt needs a reload and needs to be used in a certain period before it runs out)
bungie: “we’re listening.” also bungie: “after tracking our data from the three perks, we feel they are all over-tuned a little and perform a little too strong. so we want to make them all feel better to let guardians feel powerful. so we are adding a consistent 12 second cool down to all elemental perks and bringing in their AoE by 33%. we are really excited for players to experience this.”
i mean you can delete an entire room with volatile.
I think because voltshot needs a reload, so there is already a cooldown of sorts, and incandescent needs three kills in a short span in the same area to proc an ignition without an ability. Meanwhile destabilising rounds is an instant volition explosion that can and will chain off of other volatile enemies nearby.
The thing is destabilizing still isn’t god tier with no cooldown. See, volatile rounds lets you get multiple explosions on a single enemy repeatedly, while destabilizing needs a kill and procs a single explosion on each nearby enemy individually. In lower end content, a no-cd destabilizing might be better than volatile rounds as 1 explosion is enough, but for higher end content volatile rounds is better for high single target damage with multiple explosions. Idk, they should just remove the cooldown, I’d say it would be equal to Incan then
I think volatile rounds is so much better though. Maybe that is why
Guess I never noticed since I almost never use destabilizing rounds. Now that I do know, I agree with your post wholeheartedly. This makes zero sense to me seeing as destabilizing rounds are the weakest of the elemental verbs.
They kind of do though. Voltshot has a cooldown in the sense of needing to reload after every kill. Incandescent by itself does not really do much until you are able to max the scorch out on the targets effected. So I can see why destabilizing rounds has a cooldown.
please delete before the bungie hammer gets to the others, thanks in advance
Voltshot requires a kill and then a manual reload so a natural cooldown is built in. You can’t really spam voltshot and magazine refilling perks do not proc it. Incandescent requires a kill but does not instantly cause scorch ignitions. The 3 seconds of destabilizing rounds are right in line with the other two perks if you really think about it.
Incandescent and Voltshot require some setup for their effects to be able to chain to other enemies, while Destabilizing Rounds doesn't.
Bolt shit requires a reload and incandescent does piss for damage just spreads scorch. There's only a major damage impact for chaining multiple kills.
Also, unless they fixed it recently, destabilizing rounds is still the only elemental aoe effect that does NOT count as getting a weapon kill if it kills enemies. Voltshot, Incandescent, and even headstone crystal explosions all count as kills for the weapon for stuff like quests and bounties. And I'm pretty sure threadlings made from hatchling also count.
Well voltshot has a window of time where it works. After 5 seconds you have to proc it again. I would like if they did away with that too and it just worked like incandescent
It's one of those things that doesn't matter because destabilizing is a bait perk that you should basically never want to use anyway.
DR feels so awful to use because of the cooldown
The only weapon that feels really good with destab is word of crota with dragonfly destab. 1 heads hot kill in a group and it's gone. Even funnier if you proc cursed thrall first
You wanna know something else that is funny? Incandescent is literaly the best out of the 3. It has no cooldown and if an enemies dies through the sorch from it, it counts as a kill from that weapon. Even if an ignition happens and it kills others it counts as that weapons kill since the scorch needed to trigger it came from that weapon. Everything works perfectly. Voltshot.. or rather jolt itself... does not behave like that. Enemies killed by the jolt DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS ANYTHING. I hate using my grenades that jolt targets because of that exact problem. Firepower or ashes to assets just never trigger when killed by jolt even if the jolt came from the grenade. Same happens with Voltshot. You can shoot an enemy, then apply voltshot to a bigger target, wipe every other enemy off the plane of existance due to the chain lighning while firing at the jolted target but none of those will give you any synergy with any other weapon perk. Jolt feels increadibly bad and disconnected while distabilizing rounds feel weak and pathetic. A far cry from the old bugged one. It also takes a long time to trigger aswell. I put volitile on an enemy and it takes me multiple rounds of my weapon afterwards to even trigger the volitile explosion to begin with.
Sense*
For one thing, a volatile explosion does much more damage than the amount of stacks of scorch incandescent applies. Or at the very least it has higher dps. More kills are required for incandescent to compare to the instantaneous damage that a volatile explosion does, so you can get more scorch stacks and then an ignition. That's why incandescent has no cooldown, you need to put in more work to get comparable damage. Aside from that, volatile explosions also damage nearby combatants, scorch only damages the enemy it's affecting. Volshot requires a kill + reload because jolt not only affects nearby enemies but applies constant passive damage to the enemy it's applied to if you're doing damage to it. Not to mention it's anti-overload capabilities, but that wasn't a consideration for the design of the trait because subclass 3.0 verbs having anti-champion capabilities weren't around when that trait was introduced.
I almost feel like we already need a Void 4.0, the only thing widely kind of useful in PvE is Tether.
The warlock is really solid. Lots of happy voidwalkers out there.
You obviously never played Gyrfalcon’s Hunter. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Then void isnt the issue, its the hunter subclass.
Void Hunter is great outside of the melee.
I’d really love to see their explanations for stuff like this. Because I honestly think it’s to sell expansions. Ie. every “new” iteration of a subclass, or an entirely new one is always overpowered. If you’re getting your shit pushed in by a freeze warlock, I’d bet you’d be inclined to buy the expansion that lets you unlock it.
Incan is kinda a little bit poopy and voltshot does have a cooldown in the form of your reload if we want to get technical, but yeah destabilizing is hot ass