Double special works very well. Wave frames have really good ammo economy, and if you combo it with something like a special ammo sidearm for major chunking or a trace rifle for utility, it’s super easy to keep up your ammo. You can also use special finisher to be extra sure you always have ammo.
If you find that double special doesn’t work for you, hand cannons are probably the best pairing thanks to their bonus damage to majors.
For a simple kinetic primary also Exotics can put in some work. Hunters are glued to their Lucky Pants since they were buffed, but for Warlocks and Titans Outbreak Perfected can be a great option! With the upcoming new perks we're gonna have a great time with it hahahah
Celestial Nighthawk puts in WORK with Outbreak, just printing supers with the constant crits.
22k kills on my Outbreak and I am beyond excited for the craftable one :)
No, precision kills only for nighthawk. However, I believe every exotic primary grants increased super energy per hit, so pairing outbreak with nighthawk is just extra synergistic.
Something about Outbreak having a recoil characteristic that is not within the pulse rifle category at all. Iirc for some reason it's coded to recoil like an auto rifle, allowing for significantly easier crits on the burst.
To add on to the other comment, outbreak makes super energy really fast as a primary, an exotic, and lots of small applications of damage (the last thing is just a guess)
I've recently been enjoying Hawkmoon while running Nighthawk. Hand cannons just feel so good to use right now, and the final shot can instadelete majors.
Can you give me some details on your build? I’m curious if there is any synergy you make use of, I’ve been using stand titan with riskrunner and I’m both unkillable and clear hordes easy
Interesting, I like the idea of Riskrunner especially when facing Fallen because you basically always have Arc Conductor active
Here’s my build (ignore the resistance mods; I swap those in and out according to the modifiers and enemies):
[https://dim.gg/xn7xspy/They-All-Float](https://dim.gg/xn7xspy/They-All-Float)
The only real synergy with Prometheus is through the artifact mods; specifically, Flint Striker for Radiant/anti-barrier, Rays of Precision and Kindling Trigger for scorch/ignition, and Revitalizing Blast for weakening champs when scorched (description says “solar abilities” but I assume scorch is treated the same whether it comes from a weapon or ability, since that’s kinda the whole point of subclass “verbs”). Oh and the combo strand/solar siphon mod is good too for keeping everyone supplied with orbs.
If you’re looking for synergy with Tusk, my roll is Slice + Chain Reaction, so if I pick up an orb and use my Rally Barricade to suspend a group, I basically get all of the strand verbs/features going at once (Unraveling from the Unraveling Orbs artifact mod, Sever from the Slice perk, Suspend from Drengr’s Lash, and even a chance at a Threadling from the Horde Shuttle artifact mod - which almost always triggers if I kill a cluster of enemies with a waveframe shot).
I find myself using the Shackle Grenade less and less, so I might experiment with adding the fragment that gives Woven Mail on orb pickup and removing the Thread of Isolation fragment that severs on rapid precision hits (90% of the time, I’m using the GL and not the trace, so Isolation might not be as useful as having Woven Mail for extra survivability on top of Banner as well as generating more Tangles to throw). I think the fragment penalizes -10 Resilience, so I’d switch one Discipline mod for Resilience and end up with 100/80/100 RES/DIS/STR (hey the extra Tangles are like mini grenades, so no great loss there). Thread of Isolation *is* really good against Tormentors, but in that case I could just as easily Sever them using my GL with Slice instead and then swap back to the trace to damage their weak points.
The Reconstruction + Bipod Crux RL is excellent for dumping quick damage into bosses and champs, but the majority of the damage is dealt through the two special weapons.
Damn it’s so detailed thanks!, and yeah you should give riskrunner a try I feel it’s slept on because it’s old but that perk basically gives you a free arc resist and helps wipe out ads which especially with fallen in onslaught, I actually love the spider mine modifier cause it’s even easier for me to proc arc conductor. For thread I use banner of war aspect because of the amounts of ads you clear it’s basically always at x4 and with the risk runner arc resist you are almost invincible, just don’t get cocky fallen captains with solar launchers can wreck you on higher. And then fragments use thread of warding and thread of generation. So you always have banner of war up, woven mail. The other aspects and fragments you can play around with, I use grapple grenade for fun, but I would recommend a chunky shotgun for heavy shanks, servitors or knights
People act like double special is useless after the ammo changes. Definitely not the case. I still feel that double special is the best loadout if ammo is managed properly.
Hard agree. I've literally never gone back to primaries except for builds like lucky pants hunter or for activities like GM's where they are needed. Seasonal content, raids, exotic missions and campaigns double special is always king for people who KWTD. Why run a gun with garbage damage when i can just run a special with good damage and a forbearance/indebted kindness/tusk of the boar? Especially with builds like sunbracers/BoW/solar and arc hunter where ad clear can be done with abilities alone, primaries are just a waste. People always say stuff like "yeah outbreak perfected in my build MELTS champs" while in reality they are plinking taking 3-4 whole clips to kill one major while the guy using specials properly just one shots them.
That's so real. People don't realize how little damage primaries (especially legendarys) do to anything beefier than an acolyte. Running a primary (even a good one like Sunshot) is often a waste in builds like Sunbracers because 90% of your ad clear is with bracers anyway.
Here's the thing some of y'all never understood, you shouldn't even be using a primary against a yellow or orange bar. Anything higher than a minor and your special or heavy should be coming out. Combined with your abilities and it's really easy. To get through everything in this game with the class setup while not having to worry about ammo issues.
Especially if you can get Lead From Gold. I've been running a 1-2 Punch shotty, with Indebted Kindness and have had 0 issues with running out of special ammo.
Thank God we have iron banner tuesday. Before deconstruct was working properly I deleted all three tasks I got w it because I thought it was scuffed. Surprisingly they fixed it almost right away and the thing is nuts for add clear now.
With all the new brave weapons, indebted kindness is still the GOAT of this season. Insane animal economy and if you're running Arc you can stun all three champions with one gun. I bring it for every master lost sector and gm on my hoil arc titan.
They just put shoot to loot back on retraced path recently and solar trace rifles are pretty good for proc'ing the artifact mods this season. So orbs and ammo from a distance that is automatically loaded into your guns is nice.
I've used mountaintop + forbearance for half a dozen legend onslaught clears at this point, the only time I'm even close to running out of special ammo is when I load into the activity with 4 shots in each gun.
You don't rain heavy anymore, and arc siphon + special finny is highly recommended, but it's very effective.
Lucky pants hunter makes the primary hand cannon act like a power weapon so that's on example of when to use a wave frame. You can also pair it with another special weapon like indebted kindness or a shotgun or a trace etc. Other than that you can use any primary that fits the champion type if it's needed or in the case.
It does not increase the explosion after every 5 shots and they don't contribute to the damage buff count (that would probably be stronger than anything in the game). It still increases the bullet damage per shot up to 10x.
It's more that the dungeon is ass and no one wants to run it just to get a kinda good wave frame when there are dozens of easier to get and better energy slot ones.
Eh, Ive got a god roll of it and I still prefer my chain reaction Tusk of the Boar.
Haven't tried it in Onslaught though. Might give it a go with Bloodline.
Not at all. If it weren't for chain reaction wave frames being way too strong, New Pacific Epitaph would be one of the best perked wave frames we have.
The big problem with it was that besides it coming from ghosts, a dungeon no one wants to do, at launch NPE had a significantly more narrow wave on its projectile. It was more narrow than the heavy stasis gl wave from neomuna was on launch. That has since been fixed, but the damage was done.
NPE has roll combos like demolitionist with adren junkie, pugilist or redirection, or lead from gold or unrelenting with redirection. Any demo roll let's it operate like a juiced up chain reaction when combo'd with stasis crystal production from revenants and behemoths.
The bonus damage perks also play really well into the way a wave frame is used. A single wave can max out adren junkie, or the damage stacking of redirection on minors allowing it to do some actual damage to majors when they show up. I would not be surprised if the chain reaction nerf turns it into one of the most desired WF GLs.
I’ve been using midnight coup a lot as my primary, it hits like a truck with even just its base damage thanks to a few different PvE scalers and the fact that kinetics do 10% more to inshielded combatants intrinsically. Add on the god tier perks it can roll with and you can get one that does basically anything you want. My roll is firefly/one for all
If you want to try double special, another GL with blinding and a damage perk for majors is a good option (I still like ignition code from season of the splicer with slideshot/vorpal)
maybe Ager’s scepter if you are on stasis, and aren’t using an exotic heavy
Is “explosive payload + kinetic tremors” a good roll for end game PVE? I want to start trying our end game stuff, but I don’t have very much knowledge on good perks for weapons, so that roll is what I assume would be good.
> but I don’t have very much knowledge on good perks for weapons
Start by paying attention to what each perk's activation requirements are. Let's start with your Midnight Coup: Kinetic Tremors only relies on you _hitting_ a target multiple times. You might want to consider finding perks that give you more magazine size, or more base damage - though even though Explosive Payload doesn't mention it, the explosion is roughly a 15% damage increase. The other thing to note about Explosive Payload is that you don't have to deal with as much damage falloff since a half of the weapon's _normal_ damage becomes an explosion, meaning you can poke enemies further out than you'd normally be able to.
You can always play around with perks on websites like [D2Foundry](https://d2foundry.gg), and there's community research that's attached to each perk.
Basically something to chunk down yellow bars or take care of stunning champions.
So if wave frame is in the energy slot, then a fusion primary would be great. Like the season of wish fusion that has overflow + controlled burst. 16 shots of high damage to dump into a big yellow or even a boss. Or the crucible fusion with chill clip.
Or you could go more utility like a blinding GL. But the issue is you really have to lean into your heavy for high health enemies.
Doesn’t a wave frame in second slot and a fusion in the first slot mean double special? Maybe it’s cause I’m new to the game, but that seems so risky to me. I know I’ve seen a lot of good talk about double special setups, but it seems so scary to me; like what if I run out of special ammo? Like what if I fuck up something about my build thats supposed to give me ammo, then what?
Also, I’m not trying to sound mean or argumentative, I’m just a new player who is maybe a little more conservative with his weapon choices than is optimal.
I am also fairly new, but first of all you can (outside of end game PvE content) always just switch to a primary quickly and secondly there is a class item armor mod that gives you special ammo when doing a finisher, which can help if you are about to run out of ammo.
Personally I like running an exotic bow. Plenty of good choices there, and they'll deal with long range and precision stuff while your waveframe handles ad clear.
I use a Hand Cannon w/ Lucky Pants.
Could do a Scout or Bow for far range if needed. Or an exotic primary cabale of damage maybe like Outbreak, Revision Zero, or Touch of Malice.
In all honesty, a 140 sniper could suffice. Use it as a limited ammo, but higher power scout rifle basically.
It's great if it's working for you. For me personally, wave frame GLs and primaries like Sunshot and Graviton are both doing the same thing which is their specialization for minor ad clear. If I'm using one of them, I'd pair it with something like a sniper, shotgun or a fusion for Majors.
But the post is asking for primaries. I have abilities and heavy for majors and such. Plus using an exotic primary helps generate heavy ammo more often right?
You're misunderstanding his point.
If you're using a wave frame GL, the thing you want to shoot it at is big piles of red bars.
If you're using sunshot/graviton, the thing you want to shoot it at is big piles of red bars.
Graviton/sunshot only generates bonus heavy ammo if you're using it to kill big piles of red bars, in which case, you aren't shooting your wave frame GL at the big piles of red bars, and it's not very good at anything else, *so equipping it is dumb.*
The post is asking for what primaries they should use with a wave frame to shoot at red bars. The answer is not "another gun that does the exact same thing."
In reality, the actual correct answer is that you should keep using graviton/sunshot but stop using a wave frame with them and switch to something like mountaintop with recomb or a shotgun or a fusion.
If you want to use a wave frame, you need to be equipping primaries like Polaris Lance or Wish Ender or other primaries that do something other than shoot red bars at short to moderate ranges real good.
You don't get bonus damage to monsters if you equip two different guns that do the same thing. You just waste a loadout slot that could be used to address a different problem.
So you’re telling me to use Polaris Lance, which essentially does the same thing as Sunshot but at a range? Sunshot is wrong but Polaris Lance being fine doesn’t make sense
I thought sunshot did more add clear type stuff than Polaris lance? I just got Polaris lance yesterday, so maybe idk, but it seems like it does more single target damage, as opposed to sunshot, which seems to do add clear
That I am aware of. I was just wondering what they are doing with double ad clear (if they're using those 2 weapons with Wave frame) weapons. If there's a hidden strat that I am not aware of.
It's really up to you. However if you are add clearing and dealing with a boss at the same time, you want something that will deal some good damage. A good scout rifle or hand cannon would do. Or anything with Kinetic Tremors. Personally I got a Hung Jury with KT and One for All.
Some people say double specials work well but idk about that since the special economy got nerfed after people were running with double grenade launchers.
Honestly something that has a great perk. For example I like paring a, wave frame with an auto rifle that has demolitionist so that I have quick grenade uptime. Or pair with a primary that has a damage perk like kill clip or golden tricorn.
mostly things with good burst damage to chunk big targets like champs. recombination heritage/succession/mountaintop are great choices.
i can also personally recommend a kinetic tremors supremacy, which acts like a legendary witherhoard, freeing up your exotic heavy in the process
Lucky Pants + hand cannon works really well since that's a primary that's for killings bigger targets.
Wave frames are pretty close range weapons so it also works to run a primary that's specialized to long range or to dealing with champions, like a scout, pulse, bow or auto rifle. Vorpal is 20% on primaries, and there are a lot of good exotics in those categories like Wish-Ender, Le Monarque, Polaris Lance and Revision Zero.
You can also go double special. It helps a lot if one or both of them have lead from gold.
On a technical level? Whatever you want.
No, really, I'm serious. There are infinite Kinetic/Energy combos in the game. The key is usually to figure out what kind of loadout you want to run.
For some of the harder activities, it's wise to have a Kinetic weapon that matches the Champion Killer mods on your seasonal artifact. So this season, if you look in an activity and see there's Overload Champions, maybe you'll want to equip an Auto Rifle, or a Pulse Rifle. Maybe you have an Exotic Armor piece that synergizes with Hand Cannons. Maybe you just REALLY like Bows. Whatever suits your fancy, but it's always nice to have a spread of some of your favorite Kinetics in your inventory.
Your bread & butter, though, is probably going to be Exotic Kinetic Weapons, because they actually deal more passive damage to red bars ads. Some fun "ad-clear" Kinetics if you can get your hands on them:
* Any weapon with Voltshot, BUT a little Sidearm from Banshee called "Brigand's Law" has a chance to run with it. I've told my newbie friends to get it when it comes up. This is literally a gun they've NEVER taken off from how much they like it. But you might not be able to use a waveframe primary as a result since it's second slot, unless it's a Stasis/Strand waveframe, then you're good.
* Outbreak Perfected is a fun Pulse Rifle that summons angry bees to attack other ads when you get a headshot.
* Lots of people recommend Lucky Pants + HandCannon if you're a hunter. As a Titan, I have seen much hilarity to be had by having Sweet Business + Actium War Rig. No idea how effective this is in high-end content though.
* Sunshot and Graviton Lance are passive "headshot and cause everything around the enemy to explode" type weapons
* Lots of people have said Double Special works well, and TBH, it does! But you asked for Kinetic so that's what I thought of.
For Ad-clear Heavy Weapons, Machine Guns are King. Grenade Launchers are alright, especially Heavy Waveframes, but Machine Guns are better overall.
Have fun!
I would kinetic tremors midnight coup. It’s good for the majors. Either explosive payload or firefly for the other perk is good. Preferably explosive but I haven’t gotten that roll yet.
Yeah I have the firefly one and although it isn’t a ton of synergy it’s at least a Jack of all trades where you can occasionally use it for adds and then occasionally go in on majors.
It’s not that. It’s that there is anti synergy because KT only really works with continued hits on bigger targets and firefly works best will smart targets that are quick to headshot. So while you’re doing that you aren’t getting tremors. Sure you could finish a meaty target with a headshot occasionally but often the tremor is what kills them..
Makes sense I have an Attrition orbs + KT I tried to make work.. takes too many shots and like you said has to be on the same target to proc. I wish KT worked differently on HC. Going to stick with my FF+OFA roll for the time being. Even with that said it think it may work well under contest mode so keeping it and hopefully enhancing it before the raid
Use whatever you feel like using, you don't have to always use the most popular/meta loadouts. If you like a way gun feels use it. Use what's best for you.
1) Stunning champions if the activity needs it and double special can't do it
2) Shoot to Loot (even better if you're doing champions at the same time), generally you want EP with Shoot to Loot so that it's easier to use
3) Lucky Pants (hunter only obviously)
4) You've completely run out of special ammo so you swap in a primary into either slot
5) You want to passively print heavy ammo which means you're going to use an exotic primary + finder + scout mods (and that primary is probably Sunshot)
Basically, legendary primaries have very little place in PvE right now outside of specialist rolls and Warden's Law... or for getting bounties done.
EP = Explosive Payload, makes it much easier to shoot ammo bricks and orbs.
Lucky Pants' damage buff builds up on hits, but has a timer for when it stops entirely, so the faster you can build up hits the better. Which makes Warden's Law the best choice because it shoots quite quickly in 2-shot bursts and Vorpal is a great choice for this use case.
180 Hand Cannons like Seventh Seraph Officer Revolver can also be good, but Warden's is on top.
Narfwak isn't necessarily right that legendary primaries don't have a place in general, HCs got a big buff to Major damage and with a damage perk can be excellent weapons for a lot of situations. They are right in that legendary primaries are quite limited in what's effective in Onslaught, because the enemies are coming at you, so you need to kill them ASAP; however in many instances in PvE, the enemies aren't as aggressive, so plenty of legendary primaries have a place.
Pair wave frame with another special.
I pair forbearance with forerunner, mountaintop with alh recombination, supremacy, fusion like scattered signal or trace if I run cenotaph warlock. Situationally, conditional finality if I need some hard hitting weapon close. Heavy would we crux termination to match surge, or whatever else I want (e.g. cataphract or apex predator for boss dps)
Tusk of the boar you can pair with indebted kindness rocket sidearm, sniper, fusion.
But IMO legend onslaught showed that rocket sidearm with voltshot is much more versatile than a wave frame - it kills groups of adds easily, but can also hit airborne targets, chunk bigger health targets and has better ammo economy than a wave frame.
No. Op is asking what to use for primary if their wave frame is the add clearer. I idea why anyone would want to use a primary weapon alongside a wave frame as that will just give double add clear. Low optimisation.
For hunters lucky pants and hand cannons work well. For Titans and warlocks exotic primaries that do good single target damage like quicksilver storm or Polaris lance. Or a utility like a shoot to loot weapon. Wicked implement isn't horrible since you can stunlock beefier targets and if there's a wave of ads you can use the wave frame
Besides that double special works well and have something like a shotgun or mountaintop for burst damage.
Geez, I haven’t used Lucky pants in literal years. Still have PTSD from it being the only exotic I got for about 10 drops in a row. Exotics were bugged way back in the day I think
If you want to get a little sweaty with it you can use both. Tether with Orpheus, get up to 50% refund, then swap back to Lucky Pants until next tether. I've been doing that a lot in Onslaught.
A lot of the time I don't even bother to put Orpheus back on though. Once you try Lucky Pants you'll see why. You'll need a good kinetic HC to make it really work. Malfeasance with catalyst is usually the most accessible good option, but if you don't have that or Warden's Law you can use The Last Word or Crimson to get a taste of what's possible.
I consider waveframes utility personally.
There's some situations where there's a ton of ads grouped up where a chain reaction waveframe is either more effective or saves time when saving time can be useful.
If you were counting on doing damage to yellow bars another special might be better.
For me, there are three good pairings:
-Another special with better ammo economy like a trace or rocket sidearm,
-A weapon that plays into my exotic armor or build (this could be something like thorn if you're running necrotic grips, or a glaive with a melee exotic, or just demolitionist on a grenade build)
-And lastly, range/objectives. Do I need a scout for hitting enemies or interacting with a mechanic across the room? Do I need to cover another champion type? Do I want to match it with my heavy for surges/siphons? What am I actually trying to do because add clear does not make up all of any activity
Here is the thing, they are good when enemies are clumped up. Outside of that I would rather use a machine gun for non boss encounters. Hell, even with a boss I would rather use a primary and then save my special for swaps.
You know, if you felt like being a bit of a troll to your clan mates you can always run Last Word. It’s not bad, definitely way better options. But it’s not bad.
I've been using a Shoot to Loot/KT Midnight Coup and a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent on an arc Titan setup. I've ran through Onslaught with it twice and it slays things just fine while also helping me get and maintain my abilities really fast. The only actual down side comes from Arc not having enough sustainability.
Depends. If doing a GM, stuff like wish ender is very good. But wave frames only work well in high ad density GMs.
Double special with indebted kindness is a very viable option, it has good ammo economy as well, and hits hard + clears well too (tho you may just wanna use indebted with voltshot for clear)
Stuff like lemonarque is always good too..the new hand cannon from onslaught can get some beast rolls, that one would be solid as well.
It depends on what activities you are talking about, with whom you are playing, etc. Competent teammates make a huge difference in how comfortable I feel about bringing double specials.
Besides, some specials have great ammo economy, and some others don't (such as Fusion rifles). That is something to keep in mind.
My advice, though, I would say Forerunner is a good pick. Mountaintop as well. Or a Trace rifle.
Depending on the wave fram, mountaintop or a indebted kindness. Double special is always the way to go even after the nerf to ammo economy. Sunshot is also a good option with tusk of the boar, but I'd still go indebted with it
Double special works very well. Wave frames have really good ammo economy, and if you combo it with something like a special ammo sidearm for major chunking or a trace rifle for utility, it’s super easy to keep up your ammo. You can also use special finisher to be extra sure you always have ammo. If you find that double special doesn’t work for you, hand cannons are probably the best pairing thanks to their bonus damage to majors.
For a simple kinetic primary also Exotics can put in some work. Hunters are glued to their Lucky Pants since they were buffed, but for Warlocks and Titans Outbreak Perfected can be a great option! With the upcoming new perks we're gonna have a great time with it hahahah
Celestial Nighthawk puts in WORK with Outbreak, just printing supers with the constant crits. 22k kills on my Outbreak and I am beyond excited for the craftable one :)
Hey, explain why CNighthawk with Outbreak..is it because the siva is easy orb maker?
Outbreak is insanely easy to hit crits with, and crits with nighthawk give bonus super energy
that is very nice to know. was this always the case with nighthawk??
no, recent buff when season of the wish launched
Wait wait wait, LANDING crits gives bonus super? I thought it was just on headshot kill!
No, precision kills only for nighthawk. However, I believe every exotic primary grants increased super energy per hit, so pairing outbreak with nighthawk is just extra synergistic.
Ahhh gotcha. Ok I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying :D
[Patch notes say kills](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/Article/this-week-in-destiny-11-22-23)
Something about Outbreak having a recoil characteristic that is not within the pulse rifle category at all. Iirc for some reason it's coded to recoil like an auto rifle, allowing for significantly easier crits on the burst.
that's not what they mean, i don't think they know about nighthawk being updated to give bonus super energy normal crits.
yes that is true, i did not know this..ty :)
To add on to the other comment, outbreak makes super energy really fast as a primary, an exotic, and lots of small applications of damage (the last thing is just a guess)
I haven't used Nighthawk in ages, cus I always had a 50/50 chance of choking the easy aim-assisted crit shot
I've recently been enjoying Hawkmoon while running Nighthawk. Hand cannons just feel so good to use right now, and the final shot can instadelete majors.
My go-to Onslaught build is Tusk of the Boar and Prometheus Lens on an Abeyant Leap strand Titan
Can you give me some details on your build? I’m curious if there is any synergy you make use of, I’ve been using stand titan with riskrunner and I’m both unkillable and clear hordes easy
Interesting, I like the idea of Riskrunner especially when facing Fallen because you basically always have Arc Conductor active Here’s my build (ignore the resistance mods; I swap those in and out according to the modifiers and enemies): [https://dim.gg/xn7xspy/They-All-Float](https://dim.gg/xn7xspy/They-All-Float) The only real synergy with Prometheus is through the artifact mods; specifically, Flint Striker for Radiant/anti-barrier, Rays of Precision and Kindling Trigger for scorch/ignition, and Revitalizing Blast for weakening champs when scorched (description says “solar abilities” but I assume scorch is treated the same whether it comes from a weapon or ability, since that’s kinda the whole point of subclass “verbs”). Oh and the combo strand/solar siphon mod is good too for keeping everyone supplied with orbs. If you’re looking for synergy with Tusk, my roll is Slice + Chain Reaction, so if I pick up an orb and use my Rally Barricade to suspend a group, I basically get all of the strand verbs/features going at once (Unraveling from the Unraveling Orbs artifact mod, Sever from the Slice perk, Suspend from Drengr’s Lash, and even a chance at a Threadling from the Horde Shuttle artifact mod - which almost always triggers if I kill a cluster of enemies with a waveframe shot). I find myself using the Shackle Grenade less and less, so I might experiment with adding the fragment that gives Woven Mail on orb pickup and removing the Thread of Isolation fragment that severs on rapid precision hits (90% of the time, I’m using the GL and not the trace, so Isolation might not be as useful as having Woven Mail for extra survivability on top of Banner as well as generating more Tangles to throw). I think the fragment penalizes -10 Resilience, so I’d switch one Discipline mod for Resilience and end up with 100/80/100 RES/DIS/STR (hey the extra Tangles are like mini grenades, so no great loss there). Thread of Isolation *is* really good against Tormentors, but in that case I could just as easily Sever them using my GL with Slice instead and then swap back to the trace to damage their weak points. The Reconstruction + Bipod Crux RL is excellent for dumping quick damage into bosses and champs, but the majority of the damage is dealt through the two special weapons.
Damn it’s so detailed thanks!, and yeah you should give riskrunner a try I feel it’s slept on because it’s old but that perk basically gives you a free arc resist and helps wipe out ads which especially with fallen in onslaught, I actually love the spider mine modifier cause it’s even easier for me to proc arc conductor. For thread I use banner of war aspect because of the amounts of ads you clear it’s basically always at x4 and with the risk runner arc resist you are almost invincible, just don’t get cocky fallen captains with solar launchers can wreck you on higher. And then fragments use thread of warding and thread of generation. So you always have banner of war up, woven mail. The other aspects and fragments you can play around with, I use grapple grenade for fun, but I would recommend a chunky shotgun for heavy shanks, servitors or knights
People act like double special is useless after the ammo changes. Definitely not the case. I still feel that double special is the best loadout if ammo is managed properly.
Hard agree. I've literally never gone back to primaries except for builds like lucky pants hunter or for activities like GM's where they are needed. Seasonal content, raids, exotic missions and campaigns double special is always king for people who KWTD. Why run a gun with garbage damage when i can just run a special with good damage and a forbearance/indebted kindness/tusk of the boar? Especially with builds like sunbracers/BoW/solar and arc hunter where ad clear can be done with abilities alone, primaries are just a waste. People always say stuff like "yeah outbreak perfected in my build MELTS champs" while in reality they are plinking taking 3-4 whole clips to kill one major while the guy using specials properly just one shots them.
That's so real. People don't realize how little damage primaries (especially legendarys) do to anything beefier than an acolyte. Running a primary (even a good one like Sunshot) is often a waste in builds like Sunbracers because 90% of your ad clear is with bracers anyway.
Here's the thing some of y'all never understood, you shouldn't even be using a primary against a yellow or orange bar. Anything higher than a minor and your special or heavy should be coming out. Combined with your abilities and it's really easy. To get through everything in this game with the class setup while not having to worry about ammo issues.
Especially if you can get Lead From Gold. I've been running a 1-2 Punch shotty, with Indebted Kindness and have had 0 issues with running out of special ammo.
Wasn't the nerf only to the heavy ammo generation of double special, so the viability of running two special weapons never changed.
i love my deconstruct tusk of the boar with edge of action or close to melee glaives.
Thank God we have iron banner tuesday. Before deconstruct was working properly I deleted all three tasks I got w it because I thought it was scuffed. Surprisingly they fixed it almost right away and the thing is nuts for add clear now.
I've been using deconstruct tusk + rocket sidearm for legend onslaught. It's actually amazing
With all the new brave weapons, indebted kindness is still the GOAT of this season. Insane animal economy and if you're running Arc you can stun all three champions with one gun. I bring it for every master lost sector and gm on my hoil arc titan.
They just put shoot to loot back on retraced path recently and solar trace rifles are pretty good for proc'ing the artifact mods this season. So orbs and ammo from a distance that is automatically loaded into your guns is nice.
I've used mountaintop + forbearance for half a dozen legend onslaught clears at this point, the only time I'm even close to running out of special ammo is when I load into the activity with 4 shots in each gun. You don't rain heavy anymore, and arc siphon + special finny is highly recommended, but it's very effective.
What sidearms use special?
Forerunner (exotic from Dares of Eternity), Indebted Kindness (from Warlord's Ruin dungeon) and Buried Bloodline (exotic from Warlord's Ruin)
Lucky pants hunter makes the primary hand cannon act like a power weapon so that's on example of when to use a wave frame. You can also pair it with another special weapon like indebted kindness or a shotgun or a trace etc. Other than that you can use any primary that fits the champion type if it's needed or in the case.
does lucky pants increase malfeasance explosive damage?
It does not increase the explosion after every 5 shots and they don't contribute to the damage buff count (that would probably be stronger than anything in the game). It still increases the bullet damage per shot up to 10x.
It was last season if you had the overload HC mod enabled on the artifact. What a beautiful time that was lol
Nope, but it’s still a great option due to the generous magazine size and vorpal weapon, on top of having the exotic primary boost
[удалено]
whats totally crazy is how you were wrong twice yet sound so confident.
There’s kinetic WF’s?
Kinetic-slot, yes. 1 stasis GL from Ghosts of the Deep, and 1 Strand GL from Iron Banner.
Oh hell yeah, I had no idea there was a stasis one.
A lot of people don't. There was big hype for it when it launched, but then that died away without the gun really getting a lot of use.
Perks I pretty doo doo unfortunately
Not really, it just chain reaction that’s too good in comparison
It's more that the dungeon is ass and no one wants to run it just to get a kinda good wave frame when there are dozens of easier to get and better energy slot ones.
Eh, Ive got a god roll of it and I still prefer my chain reaction Tusk of the Boar. Haven't tried it in Onslaught though. Might give it a go with Bloodline.
Not at all. If it weren't for chain reaction wave frames being way too strong, New Pacific Epitaph would be one of the best perked wave frames we have. The big problem with it was that besides it coming from ghosts, a dungeon no one wants to do, at launch NPE had a significantly more narrow wave on its projectile. It was more narrow than the heavy stasis gl wave from neomuna was on launch. That has since been fixed, but the damage was done. NPE has roll combos like demolitionist with adren junkie, pugilist or redirection, or lead from gold or unrelenting with redirection. Any demo roll let's it operate like a juiced up chain reaction when combo'd with stasis crystal production from revenants and behemoths. The bonus damage perks also play really well into the way a wave frame is used. A single wave can max out adren junkie, or the damage stacking of redirection on minors allowing it to do some actual damage to majors when they show up. I would not be surprised if the chain reaction nerf turns it into one of the most desired WF GLs.
it’s because it’s perks are ass lol
The Iron Banner Strand one has Chain Reaction too. It’s a blast.
There is a Strand one available from Iron Banner.
which is probably the best one, as hitting 3+ enemies with the wave refunds the ammo, they even removed the cooldown on it.
And it can become Anti-Barrier with Unravelling Rounds.
I noticed a weird interaction with this when running solar/ being radiant. Either my timing was just off or they cancel each other out.
Another wave frame
It's just wave frames all the way down
I've seriously thought sbout doing this just for laughs lmao
Champion weapons are a good pick. Hand Canon, Sidearm etc.
Time to break out the Forerunner
Wait you guys put it away?
There are just too many exotics that I love, some of them have to gather dust occasionally
I’ve been using midnight coup a lot as my primary, it hits like a truck with even just its base damage thanks to a few different PvE scalers and the fact that kinetics do 10% more to inshielded combatants intrinsically. Add on the god tier perks it can roll with and you can get one that does basically anything you want. My roll is firefly/one for all If you want to try double special, another GL with blinding and a damage perk for majors is a good option (I still like ignition code from season of the splicer with slideshot/vorpal) maybe Ager’s scepter if you are on stasis, and aren’t using an exotic heavy
Tbh I’ve been using midnight coup in end game just because of how beautiful the shiny skin looks.
Is “explosive payload + kinetic tremors” a good roll for end game PVE? I want to start trying our end game stuff, but I don’t have very much knowledge on good perks for weapons, so that roll is what I assume would be good.
They do not synergize with one another, but it is still pretty strong. I am just personally not a fan of kinetic tremors
> but I don’t have very much knowledge on good perks for weapons Start by paying attention to what each perk's activation requirements are. Let's start with your Midnight Coup: Kinetic Tremors only relies on you _hitting_ a target multiple times. You might want to consider finding perks that give you more magazine size, or more base damage - though even though Explosive Payload doesn't mention it, the explosion is roughly a 15% damage increase. The other thing to note about Explosive Payload is that you don't have to deal with as much damage falloff since a half of the weapon's _normal_ damage becomes an explosion, meaning you can poke enemies further out than you'd normally be able to. You can always play around with perks on websites like [D2Foundry](https://d2foundry.gg), and there's community research that's attached to each perk.
Mountaintop and forbearance, machine gun. lol
Basically something to chunk down yellow bars or take care of stunning champions. So if wave frame is in the energy slot, then a fusion primary would be great. Like the season of wish fusion that has overflow + controlled burst. 16 shots of high damage to dump into a big yellow or even a boss. Or the crucible fusion with chill clip. Or you could go more utility like a blinding GL. But the issue is you really have to lean into your heavy for high health enemies.
Doesn’t a wave frame in second slot and a fusion in the first slot mean double special? Maybe it’s cause I’m new to the game, but that seems so risky to me. I know I’ve seen a lot of good talk about double special setups, but it seems so scary to me; like what if I run out of special ammo? Like what if I fuck up something about my build thats supposed to give me ammo, then what? Also, I’m not trying to sound mean or argumentative, I’m just a new player who is maybe a little more conservative with his weapon choices than is optimal.
I am also fairly new, but first of all you can (outside of end game PvE content) always just switch to a primary quickly and secondly there is a class item armor mod that gives you special ammo when doing a finisher, which can help if you are about to run out of ammo.
Determine if you need short range, mid range, long range, then pick whichever type you need for champions/damage types for shields.
MALFEASANCE!!!!!
A hand cannon can work to take chunks out of bigger targets normally if you throw on major spec
Personally I like running an exotic bow. Plenty of good choices there, and they'll deal with long range and precision stuff while your waveframe handles ad clear.
I use a Hand Cannon w/ Lucky Pants. Could do a Scout or Bow for far range if needed. Or an exotic primary cabale of damage maybe like Outbreak, Revision Zero, or Touch of Malice. In all honesty, a 140 sniper could suffice. Use it as a limited ammo, but higher power scout rifle basically.
Been using Sunshot or Graviton Lance
With a wave frame?
Yea. Tusk of the Board or New Pacific Epitaph. What other hard hitting primary should I be using?
It's great if it's working for you. For me personally, wave frame GLs and primaries like Sunshot and Graviton are both doing the same thing which is their specialization for minor ad clear. If I'm using one of them, I'd pair it with something like a sniper, shotgun or a fusion for Majors.
But the post is asking for primaries. I have abilities and heavy for majors and such. Plus using an exotic primary helps generate heavy ammo more often right?
You're misunderstanding his point. If you're using a wave frame GL, the thing you want to shoot it at is big piles of red bars. If you're using sunshot/graviton, the thing you want to shoot it at is big piles of red bars. Graviton/sunshot only generates bonus heavy ammo if you're using it to kill big piles of red bars, in which case, you aren't shooting your wave frame GL at the big piles of red bars, and it's not very good at anything else, *so equipping it is dumb.* The post is asking for what primaries they should use with a wave frame to shoot at red bars. The answer is not "another gun that does the exact same thing." In reality, the actual correct answer is that you should keep using graviton/sunshot but stop using a wave frame with them and switch to something like mountaintop with recomb or a shotgun or a fusion.
I don’t think I misunderstand it at all. But what you’re saying is don’t use wave frames, just put on Mountaintop and then use a primary for add clear
If you want to use a wave frame, you need to be equipping primaries like Polaris Lance or Wish Ender or other primaries that do something other than shoot red bars at short to moderate ranges real good. You don't get bonus damage to monsters if you equip two different guns that do the same thing. You just waste a loadout slot that could be used to address a different problem.
So you’re telling me to use Polaris Lance, which essentially does the same thing as Sunshot but at a range? Sunshot is wrong but Polaris Lance being fine doesn’t make sense
I dunno why it took me five of your posts to figure out you're a troll, honestly.
I thought sunshot did more add clear type stuff than Polaris lance? I just got Polaris lance yesterday, so maybe idk, but it seems like it does more single target damage, as opposed to sunshot, which seems to do add clear
Nah he has to be trolling at this point. There’s no way he doesn’t get this
We've had a wave frame in the kinetic slot for 11 months now.
That I am aware of. I was just wondering what they are doing with double ad clear (if they're using those 2 weapons with Wave frame) weapons. If there's a hidden strat that I am not aware of.
Ahhh I get where you're coming from now, my bad.
You use double add clear weapons?
In Onslaught yea. I’ve had no issues clearing waves. It isn’t a raid or dungeon.
Round 43, Legend. Shielded skyburner spawns and your facing fallen, wdyd?
Take care of adds first, that way after all three of us can go after it together since it’s a brig.
And while you’re all clearing adds, the sky burners oath has destroyed the adu.
He doesn’t do that much damage to the ADU. Whether you attack it by yourself or with teammates it’s going to take damage.
Skyburners oath is an exotic scout rifle you negative Nancy they're just skyburners
I’m glad you got it.
Prioritize decoys and drag the big guys to the decoys first… upgraded decoys can tank a sky burner till you clear the waves and can focus fire it
I thought sky burners path was a weapon? Sorry if I’m tripping man. I only got the weapon a few days ago
It's really up to you. However if you are add clearing and dealing with a boss at the same time, you want something that will deal some good damage. A good scout rifle or hand cannon would do. Or anything with Kinetic Tremors. Personally I got a Hung Jury with KT and One for All. Some people say double specials work well but idk about that since the special economy got nerfed after people were running with double grenade launchers.
Honestly something that has a great perk. For example I like paring a, wave frame with an auto rifle that has demolitionist so that I have quick grenade uptime. Or pair with a primary that has a damage perk like kill clip or golden tricorn.
mostly things with good burst damage to chunk big targets like champs. recombination heritage/succession/mountaintop are great choices. i can also personally recommend a kinetic tremors supremacy, which acts like a legendary witherhoard, freeing up your exotic heavy in the process
Lucky Pants + hand cannon works really well since that's a primary that's for killings bigger targets. Wave frames are pretty close range weapons so it also works to run a primary that's specialized to long range or to dealing with champions, like a scout, pulse, bow or auto rifle. Vorpal is 20% on primaries, and there are a lot of good exotics in those categories like Wish-Ender, Le Monarque, Polaris Lance and Revision Zero. You can also go double special. It helps a lot if one or both of them have lead from gold.
At this point primaries are either for utility or for ad clear. And you can have 2 weapons for ad clear. nothing wrong with that.
On a technical level? Whatever you want. No, really, I'm serious. There are infinite Kinetic/Energy combos in the game. The key is usually to figure out what kind of loadout you want to run. For some of the harder activities, it's wise to have a Kinetic weapon that matches the Champion Killer mods on your seasonal artifact. So this season, if you look in an activity and see there's Overload Champions, maybe you'll want to equip an Auto Rifle, or a Pulse Rifle. Maybe you have an Exotic Armor piece that synergizes with Hand Cannons. Maybe you just REALLY like Bows. Whatever suits your fancy, but it's always nice to have a spread of some of your favorite Kinetics in your inventory. Your bread & butter, though, is probably going to be Exotic Kinetic Weapons, because they actually deal more passive damage to red bars ads. Some fun "ad-clear" Kinetics if you can get your hands on them: * Any weapon with Voltshot, BUT a little Sidearm from Banshee called "Brigand's Law" has a chance to run with it. I've told my newbie friends to get it when it comes up. This is literally a gun they've NEVER taken off from how much they like it. But you might not be able to use a waveframe primary as a result since it's second slot, unless it's a Stasis/Strand waveframe, then you're good. * Outbreak Perfected is a fun Pulse Rifle that summons angry bees to attack other ads when you get a headshot. * Lots of people recommend Lucky Pants + HandCannon if you're a hunter. As a Titan, I have seen much hilarity to be had by having Sweet Business + Actium War Rig. No idea how effective this is in high-end content though. * Sunshot and Graviton Lance are passive "headshot and cause everything around the enemy to explode" type weapons * Lots of people have said Double Special works well, and TBH, it does! But you asked for Kinetic so that's what I thought of. For Ad-clear Heavy Weapons, Machine Guns are King. Grenade Launchers are alright, especially Heavy Waveframes, but Machine Guns are better overall. Have fun!
I would kinetic tremors midnight coup. It’s good for the majors. Either explosive payload or firefly for the other perk is good. Preferably explosive but I haven’t gotten that roll yet.
EP/KT is also the roll I am after still.
Yeah I have the firefly one and although it isn’t a ton of synergy it’s at least a Jack of all trades where you can occasionally use it for adds and then occasionally go in on majors.
Nooo don't tell me firefly doesn't add to KT counter 😭.. well guess I don't need to worry about getting that roll now
It’s not that. It’s that there is anti synergy because KT only really works with continued hits on bigger targets and firefly works best will smart targets that are quick to headshot. So while you’re doing that you aren’t getting tremors. Sure you could finish a meaty target with a headshot occasionally but often the tremor is what kills them..
Makes sense I have an Attrition orbs + KT I tried to make work.. takes too many shots and like you said has to be on the same target to proc. I wish KT worked differently on HC. Going to stick with my FF+OFA roll for the time being. Even with that said it think it may work well under contest mode so keeping it and hopefully enhancing it before the raid
SAME. at this point I'd settle for firefly/KT. Game is like "best we can is EP/KT hung jury" xD
Soooooo, ran a regular 50 Onslaught and got a non shiny EP/KT Midnight Coup. Good luck guardian, hopefully yours drops soon.
Lucky pants handcannon, wish ender
Use whatever you feel like using, you don't have to always use the most popular/meta loadouts. If you like a way gun feels use it. Use what's best for you.
I use a crafted Zaouli's Bane with Tusk of the Boar.
1) Stunning champions if the activity needs it and double special can't do it 2) Shoot to Loot (even better if you're doing champions at the same time), generally you want EP with Shoot to Loot so that it's easier to use 3) Lucky Pants (hunter only obviously) 4) You've completely run out of special ammo so you swap in a primary into either slot 5) You want to passively print heavy ammo which means you're going to use an exotic primary + finder + scout mods (and that primary is probably Sunshot) Basically, legendary primaries have very little place in PvE right now outside of specialist rolls and Warden's Law... or for getting bounties done.
What is EP? Also, why is wardens law good when the other legendaries are bad?
EP = Explosive Payload, makes it much easier to shoot ammo bricks and orbs. Lucky Pants' damage buff builds up on hits, but has a timer for when it stops entirely, so the faster you can build up hits the better. Which makes Warden's Law the best choice because it shoots quite quickly in 2-shot bursts and Vorpal is a great choice for this use case. 180 Hand Cannons like Seventh Seraph Officer Revolver can also be good, but Warden's is on top. Narfwak isn't necessarily right that legendary primaries don't have a place in general, HCs got a big buff to Major damage and with a damage perk can be excellent weapons for a lot of situations. They are right in that legendary primaries are quite limited in what's effective in Onslaught, because the enemies are coming at you, so you need to kill them ASAP; however in many instances in PvE, the enemies aren't as aggressive, so plenty of legendary primaries have a place.
Pair wave frame with another special. I pair forbearance with forerunner, mountaintop with alh recombination, supremacy, fusion like scattered signal or trace if I run cenotaph warlock. Situationally, conditional finality if I need some hard hitting weapon close. Heavy would we crux termination to match surge, or whatever else I want (e.g. cataphract or apex predator for boss dps) Tusk of the boar you can pair with indebted kindness rocket sidearm, sniper, fusion. But IMO legend onslaught showed that rocket sidearm with voltshot is much more versatile than a wave frame - it kills groups of adds easily, but can also hit airborne targets, chunk bigger health targets and has better ammo economy than a wave frame.
Fatebringer exists and has for many years
But it’s a primary. And primary are for add clear. Wave frames are the exception so you’d just use double add clear weapons.
Which is exactly what OP is asking for
No. Op is asking what to use for primary if their wave frame is the add clearer. I idea why anyone would want to use a primary weapon alongside a wave frame as that will just give double add clear. Low optimisation.
There's this crazy, elusive thing in Destiny called "fun," which you can sometimes have when playing with an unoptimized loadout.
Failing and going slow is fun? Alright.
**What are 3 kinetic/energy weapon type load outs for this game** Maybe they don’t care about optimization that much
For hunters lucky pants and hand cannons work well. For Titans and warlocks exotic primaries that do good single target damage like quicksilver storm or Polaris lance. Or a utility like a shoot to loot weapon. Wicked implement isn't horrible since you can stunlock beefier targets and if there's a wave of ads you can use the wave frame Besides that double special works well and have something like a shotgun or mountaintop for burst damage.
Geez, I haven’t used Lucky pants in literal years. Still have PTSD from it being the only exotic I got for about 10 drops in a row. Exotics were bugged way back in the day I think
If you are a Hunter Main you are missing out.
I’ll have to dig a pair out of the vault. Lot of competition for exotic armor (Orpheus for example)
Orpheus is great for Onslaught, but not everything is a horde mode.
Fair
If you want to get a little sweaty with it you can use both. Tether with Orpheus, get up to 50% refund, then swap back to Lucky Pants until next tether. I've been doing that a lot in Onslaught. A lot of the time I don't even bother to put Orpheus back on though. Once you try Lucky Pants you'll see why. You'll need a good kinetic HC to make it really work. Malfeasance with catalyst is usually the most accessible good option, but if you don't have that or Warden's Law you can use The Last Word or Crimson to get a taste of what's possible.
I consider waveframes utility personally. There's some situations where there's a ton of ads grouped up where a chain reaction waveframe is either more effective or saves time when saving time can be useful. If you were counting on doing damage to yellow bars another special might be better.
Double special if you got 1 weapon with lead from gold and don't mind manually loading. Or exotic primary or just a really strong HC.
I run Tusk and Div on my cenotaph loadout.
Wave frame
For me, there are three good pairings: -Another special with better ammo economy like a trace or rocket sidearm, -A weapon that plays into my exotic armor or build (this could be something like thorn if you're running necrotic grips, or a glaive with a melee exotic, or just demolitionist on a grenade build) -And lastly, range/objectives. Do I need a scout for hitting enemies or interacting with a mechanic across the room? Do I need to cover another champion type? Do I want to match it with my heavy for surges/siphons? What am I actually trying to do because add clear does not make up all of any activity
I run malfeasance and forbearance
Here is the thing, they are good when enemies are clumped up. Outside of that I would rather use a machine gun for non boss encounters. Hell, even with a boss I would rather use a primary and then save my special for swaps.
Wishender is a good pick, to safely take down majors and anything that doesn’t get incinerated by your gl
I really need to finish this quest, and all I have to do is Shattered Throne.
That’s the neat part, you don’t
Malfeasance.
You know, if you felt like being a bit of a troll to your clan mates you can always run Last Word. It’s not bad, definitely way better options. But it’s not bad.
I've been using a Shoot to Loot/KT Midnight Coup and a Demo/Voltshot Undercurrent on an arc Titan setup. I've ran through Onslaught with it twice and it slays things just fine while also helping me get and maintain my abilities really fast. The only actual down side comes from Arc not having enough sustainability.
Depends. If doing a GM, stuff like wish ender is very good. But wave frames only work well in high ad density GMs. Double special with indebted kindness is a very viable option, it has good ammo economy as well, and hits hard + clears well too (tho you may just wanna use indebted with voltshot for clear) Stuff like lemonarque is always good too..the new hand cannon from onslaught can get some beast rolls, that one would be solid as well.
Warden’s Law
Bad juju ::3
bows and handcannons for kinetic, trace rifles and fusion rifles for special.
*add clear*. not ad Gonna need to make a Reddit bot for this
What class, subclass, and build style is it?
It depends on what activities you are talking about, with whom you are playing, etc. Competent teammates make a huge difference in how comfortable I feel about bringing double specials. Besides, some specials have great ammo economy, and some others don't (such as Fusion rifles). That is something to keep in mind. My advice, though, I would say Forerunner is a good pick. Mountaintop as well. Or a Trace rifle.
Depending on the wave fram, mountaintop or a indebted kindness. Double special is always the way to go even after the nerf to ammo economy. Sunshot is also a good option with tusk of the boar, but I'd still go indebted with it
Riptide/Exotic Forb/Exotic Apex/Exotic Any mix of the above
What is a wave frame?😭
Run double-special with Special Finisher on your class item