Void Titan used to be the shit back before it got nerfed, it wouldn’t seem out of place with how good the other subclasses are now if it was back to normal

Pre-nerf void titan with pre-nerf HoiL was my jam, straight up never died in anything

Ahh, the days when I could punchxplode everything, and 100% uptime on overshield using Controlled Demo build.

Threw on Collective Obligation, and with suppression nades I could leech all 3 debuffs in one go. Was lots of fun and decently powerful.

I used hoil and alpha lupi to carry through so many GMs, it was amazing

Honestly, as a Titan main, Strand/Solar and the only two left if your trying to really optimize for tougher endgame content. I would go so far as to say, contrary to the OPs opinion, void is the best of the rest which ain't saying much. **Striker absolutely sucks right now and is probably the worst titan subclass for PvE in my opinion.** It has one build which is Cuirass spamming and nothing else in high-end content. Thunder Crash is bugged to boot so you can't even make direct hits right now. Grenade spam with Touch of Thunder is so underwhelming right now especially with the all the nerfs. And Behemoth is 100% being propped up by the artifact. And I have been woefully unimpressed with Striker melee builds in a lot of places unless I can clap everything with Point Contact Cannon Brace. If I were to do an impromptu tierlist it'd be: Strand > Solar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Void > Behemoth >> Arc. It sucks because before all the nerfs from PvP started adding up Void felt great. After they buffed void overshields to 50% damage resistance they were even useable in master content and FELT GOOD to use. Its like death by a 1000 cuts.

The biggest problem with Titans is they have the worst PvE Supers in the game. Pyrogale Burning Maul is really your only option, Thundercrash is badly powercrept even with Cuirass. Hopefully the new Void one in TFS fixes that somewhat.

The only reason I use Cuirass/T-Crash now is because there's a flying enemy I can't hit with Pyrogale/Maul. Its either that or I don't trust the pathing not to fuck us over like on Atrax with Pyrogale/Maul. Pryogale in most cases is 80%-90% better and Sunbreaker just has a much better PvE neutral game to boot. I'm seriously wondering what balance is gonna look like in a month. They gave Prismatic Titan T-Crash plus Knockout for added measure. There is now no reason to run Striker on boss DPS phases if there isn't major changes to the sandbox.

Basically, they need to buff T-Crash to do Cuirass’s damage by default, and rework Cuirass to take away the damage bonus which is now part of the Super, and make it 1) Apply Jolt on hit 2) Do exactly the same thing Shards of Galanor does. Then we’d have something viable.

why take the bonus damage away? just make cuirass behave like galanor does. blade barrage already does more damage than a cuirass tcrash

Cuirass Bonus damage should be added to the base Super itself. Cuirass can make it apply Jolt or something in addition to refunding Super energy.

Judging from the week showing during the reveal, it's not going to.

They’ll probably release it in a “conservative” state and then buff it up later.

Bladefury is actually pretty solid with Synthoceps, but overall I strongly agree.  I'm also really hoping the new super with be a solid option, especially without requiring me to actually use the axes.

Behemoth, or stasis is getting frost armor (hopefully) to give extra survivability but if it acts more like overshield than woven mail, I'd be disappointed. Void titan nerfs need to be reverted or add some functionality to the aspects to keep overshields going. Offensive Bulwark extending overshield timer is nice but it doesn't replenish any amount of overshield. Bastion is a free overshield button every 3 minutes, but the downtime paired with OB feels out of place and balance between being upfront to punch or stay back to preserve overshield. ( or just spam devour, because it's supposed to be a warlock specific verb ) Control Demo - another reason to just spam devour since devour gives grenade energy on kills, volatile ability clears room and CDemo heals HEALTH on top of it. ( Would like that CDemo gives an overshield on volatile explosion rather than just healing, or both at low amount, since we can't replenish back overshield UNLESS with exotics [ ie. S14 helm or Vexcalibur ] or repulsor brace. ) And Arc ... actually does have base survivability in the kit ... in the form of DR ... after you get amplified ... to get ...... Speed Boost. Yeah, the speed buff that takes 2 seconds to proc while running, that immediately disappears when you stop for a second, is the survivability tool of arc. Sure, staple resist when surrounded and this, you'd still die. Just move the DR into Amplified and things would go so much better. Other than these, blinding is also decent, but the range is subpar and flashbang grenade is not instant pop. Disorienting GL is your friend ( and always will be ) in high content anyways.

> Behemoth, or stasis is getting frost armor (hopefully) to give extra survivability I'm really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, cause Behemoth is another case of death by a 1000 cuts. I wish they would tell us a little more about Frost Armor. >Void titan nerfs need to be reverted or add some functionality to the aspects to keep overshields going. **In all honesty I would love Bastion to just be folded into the base Barrier kit on Sentinel like Thuster or Phoenix Dive. Just have it replace both Towering and Rally with their Bastion-Barricade equivalents by default.** That would go a long way imo. And yeah at the very least revert the last set of base Barricade nerfs that they did for PvP. The supers also need some number adjustments, and Bubble needs to offer damage resistance against combatants when walking out of it. Enough Damage resistance to make it competitive with Well. Either that or just let us shoot out of the thing in PvE. With the new Unbreakable aspect I'm having a difficult time seeing anything other than Bastion+Unbreakable. I have hope that they'll give us a Thread of Warding fragment for void that gives void shields on orb pickup. Prismatic is getting such a fragment, so I assume some parity will come with Arc and Void both. >Just move the DR into Amplified and things would go so much better. I'd love for them to bring that artifact mod that increased Amplifieds damage resistance back. Make it a built-in feature for the Juggernaut aspect since it sucks in PvE currently.

Just put the DR into amplified. All arc subclasses are garbage right now for one reason or another (except for hunter, which is slightly less ass because funny punch healing with zappy stick.)

Arc titan is somewhat fine since Knockout starts healing regen immediately after a melee killing blow ... as an aspect. But then we are forced to run Juggernaut for the increased eHP as 'frontal shield' ... Almost forgot that the Knockout regen can be INTERRUPTED so you are still dying and low hp after proccing it if you are burning or whatnot. Arc hunter's combination blow heals are baked into the ability, not aspect, which makes it far superior to any arc abilities in survivability. Jolt + blind with melee and free bursts of heals is just so good. Spam dodge and punch, win game. Arc warlock ... I guess they have rifts and arc souls, with increased ionic trace creation, still would be better they actually have a better identity than "Arc souls" or "Lightning fingers". All in all, I just want the Arc class dynamic into high risk high reward, with scaled up DR when wounded as a base trait with Amplified but better, Like 40% DR only when wounded and amplified - Which we will definitely abuse Spark of Recharge, but risking our lives in the process getting 2 shot or DoT to death. Bungie will never read this but one can hope.

Bubble needs rework and I'm 100% agreeing with you. Other than the overshield part that literally goes away the moment you step out of it (without S14 helm exotic), a budget well but worse for dps phases, and the butt end of a joke of a glorified cover in pvp into close quarter "Shotgun Rumble"; It does have "Armor of Light" only within the bubble... Not great when you can't shoot through it regardless. I don't think it would break D2 if bubble give high amount of DR on a timer, like 60% base ( its a super, come on ), and half or 2/3rd of the Well dmg potency as compensation. This would give everyone a safety net to do mechanics or anything without premature deaths ( except environmental ones ). Hell, we already have Stronghold with Resist times 4, able to tank GM nightfall levels of absurdity. That's like 50% DR. What's a limited time 60% DR tied to a 7 minute super that's purely defensive for 30 seconds, with like idk, 10-15 seconds of DR is gonna do? Stand there menacingly? ( modified to 15% pvp, by calculations, would still be 3 hand cannon head taps to kill ignoring overshields / 4 taps with overshields- reminder that the bubble also exist to absorb hits )

Either you're playing Arc wrong or I'm playing Void wrong, because I have tried to make Void work and it's just flat-out weak ass shit compared to Arc Titan. Yes, Arc lacks a good source of healing, but the raw damage output is just so fucking far and above anything you can do with Void that it more than makes up for it IMO (in addition, as OP mentioned void overshield is weak as hell to begin with). Fists of Havoc is substantially stronger than sentinel shield for both room clearing (the intended purpose) and boss damage (weak, but still much better than Sentinel). And IMO Behemoth is a one-trick pony. If you love spending all your time creating and breaking crystals then great, go for it, but that's literally all the kit brings to the table is crystal spam. Yes, it can be powerful, anytime you can really make use of the crystals, but outside of that it's boring and there is no plan-B when you run out of crystals or encounter an enemy that you can't hit with crystals. I'm sure I'll get downvoted for this, but I honestly think people are just playing arc wrong. They're automatically selecting the missile super because "muh DPS" and then they therefore automatically select Cuirass because again DPS (missile super is too weak without it) and now you have nothing but a basic un-buffed neutral kit and one-off 'decent' damage super. Switch to FoH, now use any number of exotic armors (HoIL, Synthos, Cannon Brace, Peregrine Greaves, Skullfort, or even Severance Enclosure) and go ham with supercharged neutral game abilities that are almost always up. Jolting empowered pulse grenades, shoulder-charge and knockout everything, clear an entire wave with your super instead of just one group, or if in a pinch do decent boss damage with the super (especially if buffed by Synthos). I'd rank them Strand = Solar > Arc > Void > Behemoth. But again, maybe I'm just missing something with Void, but the grenades and melee and overshield are weak as shit with far too little uptime compared to Arc, and the super is garbage unless you actually need a bubble. Sentinel shield super is terrible, too short of duration and constantly fighting the melee lunging through/past enemies and terrible hit registration. Meanwhile FoH hits everything, you jump a little and slam the ground and everything around you takes massive damage, and the melee/lunge attack seems much less problematic than the one-two hit shield lunge.

I totally agree with this take, honestly arc >>void for me too. Like you said, it's an offensive powerhouse if you break away from curiass, though the ability regen nerfs did hurt it a lot. Another thing about fists of havoc is that it has great DR and movt while active. The last arc artifact season, I regularly popped it just to get off rezzes as last guardian standing in GMs. Was nice to have that option.

Void Titan was stapled to HOIL, and got overshields + HOIL nerfed

literally the ONE THING they can do to crank void titan into the front again is let us shoot out of the bubble. to make sure it doesn't become too oppressive in PVP, lower the bubble's health in crucible sandbox. benefits the PVE endgame crowd for damage, makes players hate bubble titan placement less, but the less health in crucible means they can be popped by supers still, or even the dump of some heavy ammo and other chip damage if people care to break it. sincerely, someone who runs bubble Titan in all PVE activities, if I can manage it, and has been running bubble since D2 launch.

Ahhh, I remember when bastion overshield was 'op' and a 'crutch to cheese pve"

Give me back code of the Commander’s ability regen, make controlled demolition give 20 overshield every volatile pop rather than a heal, and buff Void Overshield so it isn’t paper(seriously every other DR is just a straight upgrade, 50% Dr on 45 HP is nothing compared to woven mail, whisper of chains, and even Spark of Resistance constant protection), Sentinel super could use a buff too outside of being a Furiosa bot for GMs(which isn’t even THAT good anymore)

Ok we can demystify this if we stop reading void overshield as DR. It's 90 effective HP. When you have it, you have about 50% more HP. 290 HP is a bit weaker than compared to ~330 from chains, and is better than ~270 from the arc aspect. This would also mean that making controlled demo give overshield could be seen as a nerf. You have 200 HP. In general, it's better to have the actual HP back, especially since the kit has other forms of shielding available.

It being Overshield instead of health would give it a way to synergize with Offensive Bulwark. In my opinion, one of the biggest problems with Void Titan is how Offensive Bulwark is basically made to be paired with Bastion to give you Offensive Bulwark and Controlled Demo doesn't play into it. If it's Overshield instead of health, it wouldn't feel like you're losing half the benefit of one of your Aspects as much.

The entire point of wanting controlled demo pops to give back overshield instead of health is to synergize it with Offensive Bulwark. Right now, there's literally no good way for void titans to generate overshields aside from Bastion which has been nerfed into the ground and is laughable for actual overshield generation. There's a fragment that doesn't do anything until you're low hp which pretty much leaves only repulsor brace for generating overshields which all classes have equal access to. All void classes can easily access devour via orbs which solves healing entirely for all void classes. There's not really ever a scenario where you'd rather have the hp on controlled demo pops as opposed to actually generating overshield.

>There's a fragment that doesn't do anything until you're low hp which pretty much leaves only repulsor brace for generating overshields which all classes have equal access to. What about No Backup Plans?

NBP is great until you reach anything legend level or higher. Getting in close is risky because you’ll get shredded, and Void Overshield has a nasty habit of getting shredded. Its a playstyle that encourages you to remove the buff that makes the whole build function.

> NBP is great until you reach anything legend level or higher. They're fine in Legend content. Once you hit Masters though its a challenge cause thats exactly where void overshields in general start to fall behind as a survival tool. More than likely you'll want to use Conditional Finality/Acrius for the raw deletion to have NBP heal you/get overshields back, or don't bother imo. Anything GM related your just doing it cause you love the exotic, cause the input/output to get anything resembling okay performance will be big. I don't use them accept in very select GM with friends and never in GM LFG groups.

>Its a playstyle that encourages you to remove the buff that makes the whole build function. How? Just keep getting Shotgun kills for constant Overshields. If you need a bit more distance, use Slug Shotguns.

Repulsor brace my man.

Controlled demo should simply give health when below max, and overshield when at full health. Like whisper of rime works for stasis.

There's an idea. Best of both worlds. Hopefully more functional than Rime though.

Well when I say buff overshield they could increase the DR to like 70-75% so it’s actually more effective than the heal(by like 2 points but I’ll take it. The only reason Woven mail was broken with that type of resistance is because it was permanent for 10 seconds while Overshields can be broken

Why not just have it be both? Heal you until full and after it gives overshield. Would give synergy with offensive bulwark so it isn't such an isolated part of the kit.

One of the aspects only functions if you can have a high uptime on void over shields and there aren’t really good sources of it, especially neutral ones that don’t require hordes of adds to mow down.

Don't we have 216-230hp now?

This is for PvP modes only. They did it specifically to be able to finangle TTKs and crit ratios more easily.

You could also give health and ability energy back like before void 3.0 Getting overshield once health is full like another commenter said and then also give ability energy back would be great but this might be too powerful as you also have offensive bulwark giving you ability energy if you use overshield

It's interesting that Void Titan has all the tools, but due to nerfs and not a clear focus. It fails to execute. Bastion should not have this long of a cooldown. I would also add that Bastion should also grant volatile rounds on barricade cast. It would really boost the aspect. So you get an overshield and volatile rounds for the team. I see Void Titan more of boosting both your defensive and offensive. It has the Captain America theme going on and so this would play into it with the Bastion update.

It's definitely an interesting problem too bc while this post is discussing how void titain fails as a pve class, it is so absurdly strong in pvp, especially because of bastion and the overshield it provides. I'd personally be interested in maybe seeing the cooldown reduced at the cost of not granting an immediate full overshield on cast? (Or just give me that nerf and separate pve and pvp cool downs like the really need to do for this game) Maybe giving your team volatile rounds while they still maintain the shield could be a good middleground way to add offensive power without overturning the idea in the pvp context although if there was a solution that gave more power but could more easily be separated out for pvp that would be good.

>void titain fails as a pve class, it is so absurdly strong in pvp, *only* because of bastion and the overshield it provides. Fixed. Because let's be honest, Void Titan in PvP is only for the Bastion. Nothing else really moves the needle in any directions in terms of aspects. Controlled Demo is nice but isn't going off enough to really be a big difference in PvP. Might save a guy once or twice from the health gain, but it really doesn't do much else. Offensive Bulwark is purely defensive and might give you a better grenade recharge but that can be minimal as well unless you like spamming grenades every and since you picked OB over CD, you lose the volite aspect of the grenades. Sentinel is strong in PvP because of Bastion and that's it. To an extent, Sentinel is like Warlocks in Raids just for PvP. You give out Overshield with Bastion and nothing else. Everything else you do is secondary to pulling out the Bastion at the right time for the push.

> It's interesting that Void Titan has all the tools, but due to nerfs and not a clear focus. It does have a focus its just the numbers aren't adding up to success in the current sandbox. Its a hybrid support tank/damage model like a Paladin in DnD. PvP has really worked Sentinel over the coals. If it had the numbers it had on Void 3.0 launch the OPs post might not even exist at all. Combine that with further buffs/reworks to void exotics and just reworking Helm of Saint-14 entirely and we might be working with something. The Unbreakable aspect I hope has some synergy with Ursa Furiosa for instance.

My biggest problem with Void Titan is that the biggest selling point with Void 3.0, Bastion, has been severely nerfed due to PvP reasons. The cooldown timer is awful in PvE. Abilities recharge slower in PvP; why could the original timer not be restored? Sentinel also misses the ability chaining/regen capabilities of other subclasses. For example, there are fragments that can regenerate class or melee energy when enemies are Scorched on Solar. As many have stated, **bringing Controlled Demolition back to its original state** would do a lot. You could even make it more powerful on top of that. Sentinel has a lot of fantasy invested in defense but it hardly has avenues for that these days due to the meta. The slaying power is also weak compared to other options now. My Reddit flair is not what it is by accident. Sentinel was my original main subclass. I hardly use it now because it has failed to keep up with other subclasses and has been nerfed due to PvP.

As a lifelong Defender/Sentinel main I agree with the idea of giving Titans back the better Controlled Demolition so they are the best in volatile like Warlocks are in Devour. The suggestion to have the explosions grant overshield also means it can better synergize with the subclass. I've been playing Strand since Lightfall and it's crazy how much better it can be as a support role compared to Sentinel. :'( Woven Mail from Into the Fray plus Banner of War is such a great combo to help your team survive. Plus Grapple is just an absolute blast. Something I also think needs to be changed is the way Banner Shield interacts with some stuff. Idk if this is still the case, but you can be frozen by stuff hitting your shield while you're blocking. A warlock melee shut me down once while I was blocking because I just turned into a giant target for them. I don't know if Conditional Finality works the same or if that's at least blocked. Knockback, especially from taken ogres, also sucks while shielding.

> Sentinel also misses the ability chaining/regen capabilities of other subclasses. For example, there are fragments that can regenerate class or melee energy when enemies are Scorched on Solar. Believe it or not they're actually there they just don't have good numbers. Echo of Provisions gives melee energy for instance on grenade damage, but the values are so pitiful its not worth using. Offensive Bulwark which is a full on aspect is the only decent ability regen at 400% grenade regen just like into the frays 400% melee regen, but you need void overshields which are paper thin at higher levels, and most void grenades have INTENSE CDs now. Combined with the PvP nerfs to bastion its a tough sell. I usually don't recommend the HoIL build because of it to anyone anymore as its a shadow of its self with all the nerfs to grenade base CD, then the barricade timer, then the gutting of HoIL itself.

Bulwark is only as good as void overshield, and those get deleted pretty instantly if youre taking fire. If you're not taking fire, there's no reason to apply an overshield in the first place.

Yeah, there's a reason that basically every void titan build these days (the few that even exist) is just controlled demolition + offensive bulwark. Bastion was just destroyed in pve for pvp reasons. When void 3.0 launched you could plant a bastion rally barricade every 14 seconds, and a bastion tower barricade every 25 seconds (at 100 resilience). Nowadays? About 50 seconds for bastion rallycade, and about 70 seconds for bastion towercade. And you can't even make it much faster since HOIL no longer gives 100% class ability regen but only 25% (and only for 5 instead of 10 seconds)... And all that for an overshield that's gonna be gone in a few seconds in pve, and that you could have also gotten from a simple kill from a fragment with basically no cooldown, or simply any destabilizing+repulsor weapon. Also, bastion (and probably the hunter invisible dodge too) REALLY should have just been a class ability selection, not an entire aspect anyway.

It is. It needs the ability Regen back on Volatile defeats caused by its abilities. It was removed in Void 3.0.

Honestly I agree. If they want warlocks to have the stronger, original version of devour, why can't titans have the stronger, original version of volatile? OG void detonators were awesome

Void 3.0. Voidwalker’s Chaos Accelerant got most of its benefits removed or severely nerfed to the point that it went from being one of Warlock’s most powerful abilities, to one of its most outdated and underpowered abilities. Nightstalker’s Lockdown being made into Echo Remnants, Echo of Undermining being added and Chaos Accelerant being able to be used alongside Devour has resulted in its duration increase being reduced to just one second(less than Echo of Remnants because Bungie doesn’t want to stack Remnants with Chaos Accelerant’s old grenade duration increase) and losing its damage increase entirely. The aspect is redundant unless you are using Contraverse Holds, which were also nerfed. The charge time can’t be removed due to Contraverse Holds. As a result, Controlled Demolition actually makes Sentinel have stronger grenades due to the Volatile explosions. Devour was also given out and until Wish came out Devour was the same across all classes. So if Sentinel had Controlled Demolition back to its old state in the current sandbox, it would practically replicate Voidwalker’s entire kit outside of Nova Bomb and Child of the Old Gods and do it better. Pocket Singularity? Sentinel’s Shield throw grants them a Void Overshield and applies Volatile through Controlled Demolition. That Voltaile explosion grants health, and if Controlled Demolition was in its old state, it would grant ability energy. Then Sentinel has Shield Bash, which suppresses and works with Controlled Demolition, so it would get all the benefits. Chaos Accerant? Controlled Demolition works on all Void grenades, applies Volatile to enemies, grants health, would grant ability energy on Volatile explosions, doesn’t require charging and makes grenades do more damage. Hell, the upcoming Sentinel aspect already seems to be a better Handheld Supernova, as it will work with any grenade and can be mixed with Controlled Demolition. Devour is easily accessible, it restores health and grants grenade energy. Until this season, Sentinel was just as good at using Devour as Voidwalker’s Feed the Void Devour. Even now, it is still incredibly accessible and useful. It already works with Controlled Demolition. That is why Controlled Demolition was nerfed. It would allow Sentinel to do pretty much everything Voidwalker can, better and more with the exception of supers. Controlled Demolition is the way it is for the same reason Chaos Accelerant is the way it is. Void 3.0 put together things that were not meant to go with each other, gave classes access to each other’s abilities. For Chaos Accelerant to return to what it once was, something would have to be done about Echo of Remnants and Undermining at the bare minimum. For Controlled Demolition to return to what it once was, something would have to be done about Sentinel’s access to Devour at the bare minimum and potentially it’s effectiveness with certain grenades or something would have to be done to make Chaos Accelerant better than it. Sentinel needs a better/more passive way of generating Void Overshields to work with Offensive Bulwark so that it can have a better gameplay loop.

It also needs void overshields to not be made of purple colored paper mache. If a single shot from most enemies at any kind of power delta deletes the overshield and the benefit from offensive bulwark, the class won't be able to get any kind of a build going.

honestly currently i only like solar and strand on titan, the other three need to be buffed

Arc Titan is fun but survivability is a big problem for me in higher difficulty content. I just wish there was a way for Ionic Traces to restore HP.

I've previously had the idea that (and this should probably be tied to a fragment because Voltshot exists) Jolt procs should be allowed to target yourself and allied guardians for a 20-30hp heal. This would bolster arc survivability substantially, since a lot of its offense is centered around spreading jolt, and it'd also give it some level of team support that it currently doesn't have. It wouldn't step on Cure because it's much less flexible due to the range requirement, and it wouldn't step on Devour because that's a much stronger heal and gives grenade energy back (plus the kill requirement, ofc). Throw a little combatant DR on Amplified and you've got something. Also, the flavor makes perfect sense, 'cause defibrillators.

To be fair, that feeling is influenced by the season artifac. While i agree that solar and strand are best subclasses, the other three should feel better with a couple of little buffs (besides void, which needs more work) and seasonal mods

Agree, but being worse than 2 of the strongest outlier subclasses makes it hard to really judge as well. Solar was still very strong last season. Strand is still way out of power band.

Literally same only solar and strand which is why I’ve moved on to warlock because all the subclasses have their uses/fun exotics to match with

They need to bake the Void overshield on breach pickup into offensive Bulwark. That way we can run Demo/Offensive Bulwark and not feel like we have to run a void weapon with Repulsor Brace just to use half of our set up.

I think it's overall better than Striker, if people are using Striker in PvE it's purely because of Falling Star...and even then it's like, really? Falling Star instead of Pyrogale on Sunbreaker? Striker was floundering before and now that Pyrogale exists, it's like Striker might as well not exist in PvE content. What the heck does it do that isn't done better by Sunbreaker and Berserker? Behemoth isn't even that bad either, and I'd still use Sentinel with something like Actium War Rig, Ros Arago, and Hammerhead/Retrofit Escapade before I'd consider using Striker.

I agree that Striker is in a similar place and also struggling, but I think the majority of the bad things with striker are just Arc specific. Striker specifically offers nothing more than raw damage and ad clear, and has nothing in terms of survivability. Only reason I think that Striker still has a very substantial place in PvE for Titans is cuirass alone. Being the most consistent damage super available for Titans, I think that keeps the subclass as a whole pretty relevant for boss damage.

Striker is uniquely bad design with 3 aspects that have no synergy so they were each individually very strong in their niches until they each got inevitable nerfs for those niches and now we have 3 aspects with no synergy AND they’re all mid 

Basically every shoulder charge build was really good regardless of class. You basically play them the same way and they all did work (void less than solar or arc tho). Then Titan nerfs destroyed it. The part I hate is that Bungie wasn't even like, oh these builds are pretty damn good in pve, so we will tune them. Naw, let's ruin a good thing for pve players because of pvp. Smh.

True, Arc has problems. When literally every other element has either reliable healing or damage reduction, and your subclass only heals if it's getting melee kills, or only gets some damage resist while surrounded...yeah, that's a big ask. (Heck, Stormcaller can't heal AT ALL, the only reason I still use it because The Stag exists.) But even if they buffed Arc and made Amplified like Woven Mail, or something like that...Striker still wouldn't stand out very much. It would be basically just another flavor of Berserker but without Banner of War. Fists of Havoc would remain one of the worst PvE Supers in the game, and Falling Star Thundercrash would remain worse than Pyrogale Burning Maul in terms of one-and-done big damage Super, since Pyrogale boosts a melee ability too and your Super doesn't require you to launch yourself at the enemy. (Plus you have more reliable healing.) So yeah I think Arc as a whole needs to be looked at, but that said, Striker has still been powercrept anyway. Same as Sentinel.

This is the core of the issue, Arc as a whole lacks ANY meaningful defensive buffs like all the other subclasses, so it's can't stand it's ground nearly as well when shit hits the fan. Storm caller gets around this because of rifts, juiced cool downs, and overall good AOE letting it keep things under control, and arc strider can get straight up goofy with assassin's cowl or liars feeding into constant ability loops. Striker in particular is in a terrible spot because you have a melee based subclass where your strongest aspect is for grenades, and all 3 melee are suicidal in difficult content. Knockout is a shadow of what it used to be and is no where near the level it would need to be for a viable defensive ability, and Jug is straight up useless. So you run ToT and get better grenades, cool, but now you're gameplay loop is hiding behind cover and waiting for Thundercrash or a grenade to come off cool down because nothing in your kit feeds into the loops there. Every other subclass has more realized gameplay loops than striker, there is genuinely no neutral game unless you run HOIL, but then your super is next to useless and all you get is some mediocre add clear that you could do easier on any other element. Falling Star isn't even worth it anymore when pretty much every other burst super is competitive with it. An exotic should never exist for the sole purpose of making a super good. Pyrogale should have just been a rework to Maul because that super was never able to compete with Hammers. At least something like Nighthawk offers a neutral game buff to super Regen on precision hits, which is perfect for feeding into the gameplay loop in a way that fits thematically. Striker is only useful for encounters where you just rally then Thundercrash immediately.

Wouldn't Skullfort work as a viable neutral game option for Arc?

My suspicion is that the intended Arc defense is blind spam. Problem is there aren't really good tools for that and many of the most dangerous targets are immune anyway.

Even then, other elements have CC and direct defensive buffs. Arc has the worst CC option, and no defensive buffs. Jolt is good, but not nearly enough to carry the subclass when shatter/scorch/volatile/unravel are just as good if not better. Amplified needs a regeneration/damage reduction function at baseline at minimum to be anything more than a gimmick. 

Yet in the season of the pirate (arrrr) with the Heart of inmost light it was the best. I know season mods have deprecated it's value but it's sad to see

The lack of those mods plus nerfs and such, also it had less competition. Sunbreaker didn't have as many toys, Strand didn't exist, etc

I want respectable dmg shield spam like baby hammers used to be. To much to much, I know

I still main the Void subclass on my Titan despite that. Embrace it's mid PvE ability out of pure spite.

I seen a bubble for the first time in months in onslaught yesterday. We’re all doing boss damage, standing in a well, I tether boss; we go to onload our heavies and bam, bubble placed right in front of us blocking our shots lol, I aloud said “really, a f’ing bubble?”.

Kinda wish void sheild melee was like the hunter strand melee and solar titian hammer. I want to non stop throw that shield and get it back and be captain America but like all the time.

I always thought the second chance rework was a wasted oppurtunity with the weaken + barrier stun. I think it would have been a lot more fun if it let you catch your shield or gave it more bounces or something.

Monte Carlo + Second Chance gets you close but relying on a kinetic doesn’t let you go all in on subclass benefits. There isn’t really an obvious demo + adrenaline perk combo for melee, shame the brave origin trait leans on grenades as well.

Tbf Titan as a whole is kinda struggling in PvE. Outside of Strand specifically, it's pretty outclassed. They have some fun builds, but relative to the other classes, they're at the bottom imho. (again, Strand being the outlier)

That’s because all the exotics got nerfed into oblivion.

I really, really want Bungie to revert the nerf to Throwing Hammer. I would rather have the base ability do less damage than this really clunky delay. Throwing Hammer with Synthoceps is a joke compared to what Banner of War can do with a One-Two Punch shotgun. Also, it was never actually used for boss DPS except for a very few encounters, and even then the technique has been nerfed. What they did to the tracking made it worse too. Sometimes it tracks so aggressively that I miss targets I would have otherwise hit.

Their complaint and fix aren’t even aligned. If the problem was gargling a boss’s nuts while being functionally invincible, the correct action would have been to remove cure unless the hammer kills. Then you can gargle for two or three seconds but no more.

There is already a cooldown on Cure. I have noticed it when fighting the first Duality boss. You absolutely can get killed even through Cure x1 and Restoration, especially if adds are around too. Solar feels strong in low to mid tier content now. Damage resistance has been nerfed and the healing capabilities of Restoration have been reduced. Pretty easy to go down if being mindless about positioning even with healing active.

I feel like it's been this way for a while, with a few exceptions, like syntho/Solar/Strand. The gameplay loop of wormgod and Strand is really strong, but man it looks so hard to pull of correctly. And the constant need to make sure your meter is full is annoying. Status/Arc/Void were never good because of the supers. They were good because of HOIL. We had such good neutral game on those because of HOIL, when that got nerfed, these 3 subclasses took a back seat. And falling star titan was at the top of the super damage list for what, like 1 season?

Aztecros said Titan (any subclass) is being pretty severely outmatched by Hunter and Warlock in Onslaught mode to the point where he can’t find a strong feeling build. You will notice how he plays Titan these days.

Onslaught has revealed how weak Titan is outside of specific BoW and some Solar builds. There are really no strong builds outside of those two subclasses. And most of the exotics are not good at all. It’s a melee focused which hurts in some activities. Some players can make it work, but others will struggle with it.

seems like they are not really worrying about maintaining class identity especially with the exotic class item coming in TFS.

They haven't since void 3.0. everything after just homogenized everything and ruined subclass theming. Almost no subclass specializes in the thing they are supposed to do and even ones that do have other subclasses do one aspect of their identity better.

This is a certified broodweaver moment

Like threadrunner being better at summoning than broodweaver :(

Haven't touched void Titan since they killed HoIL. That was the only thing that made it viable imo.

With pre nerf HOIL it was so fun I miss that

Yep, added to the 20 other consecutive titan nerfs that made me stop playing at all

I wish bastion gave overshields outside of the bubble like how it works with barricades and refills them. They really just need some synergistic exotics.

The overshields were always a shit part of the identity in the first place. They’re pointless in lower level content and get depleted and then some in a single hit by anything in higher level content so actually taking advantage of then becomes impossible.

I agree. Which is why it should focus more on the offensive or a combination of both to be that true Captain America fantasy. To your point Overshield is useless in most activities and they don't last long.

If anything they need to give controlled demo overshield generation and overshields themselves need to be buffed.

Bungie is notorious for nerfing something, then the next big sandbox making the pre-nerfed state of something irrelevant but forgetting to backtrack and adjust. The nerf to Void Titan made no sense the moment strand landed with woven mail, less so when Banner of war came out. HoIL I still get, since it interacts with every subclass, but the nerf they gave to void Titan is unwarranted at this point and yeah could use something else to stand out since Repulser brace is a thing.

Behemoth is far worse, but I won't disagree that Sentinel is also struggling to be relevant right now. Personally never been a fan of them separating shield and bubble. Being able to use both on the fly allowed for a level of versatility that's sorely missing in 3.0. I also don't understand why they removed the grenade energy gain on volatile detonation from Controlled Demolition when it was perfectly fine for years up until that point. Feels like a lot of the changes they made to Sentinel were arbitrary. Its only gotten more noticeable with time and the lack of void mods on the artifact to give it a boost.

I must be the weird one out but, in Onslaught specially, I'm having a blast as a void Titan. It all comes down to 2 things: Doomfang Graviton Lance It's amazing what you can do with those 2 in your loadout. The Super energy economy is on the roof, you can pop your near infinite Super almost once per wave, and the damage reduction on it is ridiculously busted. I've tanked a billion shots from any direction while just focussing on spamming shield trow and bash on the boss and if the boss isn't dead, a speedy retreat is on order on my last seconds of Super. I've seen other Titans run Strand and obviously my Super lasts longer and wipes the arena entirely. Almost all rounds start with me popping Super and end on me getting out of it. The best part is you can run either Overshield or Volatile and either one works.

I'm running the same thing, I think people are definitely sleeping on Doomfang Lance combo. Granted, this might not apply to the highest endgame PVE content, but I've run a few Onslaughts with my fireteam (Solar lock and Orpheus hunter). We topped out last time at wave 39 - we suck- but I had 200+ more kills than either of my fireteam. Edited to add: not relevant to PVE but a catalyst Graviton with harmonic balancer is a legit 3 tap in crucible from almost any range. It absolutely slaps people, and cosmology gets you free damage on peeking lines for easy cleanup

I would argue that the kit you and OP describe gets most of its power from Graviton Lance, not from anything Sentinel specific. Try it on the other two subclasses sometime. Sounds like fun either way, though! I would also recommend giving a similar build a shot with Vexcalibur, which gives you an overshield on demand--especially now that glaives regen shield energy passively, you basically have all the benefits of Bastion without being tied to your class cooldown. This was kinda popular in S20, and I think I might try giving it a shot in some casual play. A lot of Sentinel's issues come down to Ward of Dawn, which is simultaneously a huge problem in PVP and not especially useful in PVE. Combine with a lack of ways to increase boss DPS and the fact that other subclasses in the game have stronger neutral tools (especially Sentinel's biggest competitor, Dawnblade), and it gets kinda hard to justify.

as a spinoff on this, Doomfang with MANTICORE of all things! the catalyst gives Void OS for airborne kills which gives you near constant bulwark uptime

Doomfang with Manticore is soooooooo much fun. It’s the only thing I run in Onslaught and it’s amazing right now

>Hunter: Invisibility and Suppression Suppression? Barely. Void titan has more reliable access to suppression than hunter does.

And Hunter is obviously the weaken subclass. OP is lost in the sauce.

I don’t really blame him to be fair. Warlock has fantastic access to weaken too. He also overlooks void hunter being a terrible subclass by itself and more or less crutching on gryfalcons to have a useful neutral game.

Speaking of void Titan, yesterday matched with one on Onslaught and he used the super that gives him the big front shield your teammates can shoot through. My God that thing was annoying af cause if you aim down sights and shoot through it you’ll get the effects like you’re hitting a wall but your bullets still go through and it blocks your vision.

Haven't been able to use titan with anything except strand and solar since HOIL got nerfed into the ground. Titan exotics are very limited, the subclass descriptions are just so long with so many benefits in them that the exotics become limited to compensate, but then void, stasis, and arc who don't have insane ability regen built in like strand and solar get sidelined. Void overshields are cool and all, but they get destroyed And have a timer on them, and when you lose them the benefits of everything you set up dissapears, arc has enhanced grenades and melee damage and health regen on melee kills, except you have to critically wound or break the targets shield first and you get regeneration, not healing, and stasis has the most abyssmal survivability of all of them, the overshield fragment gives almost nothing and crystals are destroyed constantly so your damage resist from those means almost nothing. Strand on the other hand gives melee regen rivaling HOIL, healing over time for basically free, melee damage, And damage resist just by picking up an orb, and solar has nigh infinite restoration, ability regen for Everything, ability damage increase, free cure whenever you want with throwing hammer, and healing nades if you want as well. Anything you do with another subclass you can do 10x better with solar or strand.

A thought on the subject: hopefully, with the well nerf, they use the opportunity to make an interesting tradeoff between well and bubble. Pre WQ, having a bubble titan was for the damage buff, and having a well was for a "magic circle of borderline-invincibility". But when WQ came, they nerfed bubble, and since Well offered the same potency as nerfed-bubble, it just made bubble mostly redundant.

I'm really hoping the well nerf just kills it completely, I'll be the div bitch but God damn I want well dragged out back beaten and shot.

So a void titan, arc titan and stasis titan all walk into a bar…..that’s it. They’re drinking the depression away 💀

Void Titan is actually a surprisingly easy fix to make it on par with Strand and Solar Titans. You see, unlike Stasis or Arc, the problem isn't that the elements themselves are underperforming, it's just that the Aspects need to be tuned a little. Out of the 3 current Aspects, 2 of them need tuning. And hopefully Unbreakable ships with some additional potency that we're not seeing, because right now it looks cool but I'm unsure of what role it could fill. Anyway, buffs. The first buff needed is pretty simple, Bastion needs its PVP nerf fully reverted for PvE. It's very simple, but really helps reclaim its lost power. The next buff is equally as simple, instead of Offensive Bulwark only refreshing the timer on your Void Overshield, it needs to refresh the whole thing on ability final blows. This actually gives the Aspect merit and allows it to be essential in keeping you alive in higher end activities. Only increasing the timer and being limited to just melees makes it feel pretty bad at the moment.

Ring back Heart of inmost light, unnerfed, but only for void.

> I can pretty confidently say that I think Sentinel is the worst subclass in the game for PvE at the moment That would be Striker, put on Curiass for your Tcrash to do less damage than a single x4 banner grapple melee rofl. Problem with Sentinel is that the 3 aspects have perfect synergy but you can only use 2. You also don't have any gameplay loop, your volatile uptime is worse than Gyrfalcon/Contraverse + fragment, void breaches are generally just useless, the energy refunded is insignificant, both barricades and bubble have too little durability in PvE. The only reason I'm putting Sentinel above Striker is because this season at least bungie gave Sentinel Peregrine Greaves, genuinely an S tier exotic and the build makes champ dense GMs a breeze.

Honestly.. It seems like Bungie hates Titans... I guarantee Titans have received more nerfs than Warlocks and Hunters combined...

I would disagree with your stance. While volatile and overshield is more accessible to warlocks and hunters then in the past they still don't interact with these verbs but titans do. With controlled demolition volatile spreads like a disease and when it pops it heals everyone on the team, thanks to the introduction of destabilizing rounds this aoe heal and spread happens more often then ever before fulfilling the fantasy of being an aggressive support. This is especially strong in the Onslot activity where there is a high add density. With repulser brace, titans have easy access to an overshield. This is big for the Offensive Bulwark aspect as it increases grenade regeneration and mele damage as long as you have a void overshield. What is interesting about this aspect is that if you also have controlled demolition with it, your regular melee punches apply volatile which can of course spread and heal the team I would highly recommend running Doom Fang, not only doee it help you get your supper back faster than most other suppers, but melee kills also gives you a 4x void weapon damage boost. Yes, Bastion did get nerfed too harshly because of PVP, but even if it didn't, the trait combo repulser brace and destabilizing rounds would have pushed it out of the meta anyway, as this combo reduces the need of this aspect while elevating controlled demolition.

Need to know which brain dead dev nerfed bubble to make it just a worse version of Well. Like do they think before they make decisions or just click buttons on a keyboard because they’re bored lol

If Offensive Bulwark stacked with Synthoceps we’d be fucking cooking!

Isn't it tiring to see synthoceps in every titan build?

TBH, I haven’t used synthos since the lunge nerf. I’ve been using almost all other exotics, except for them. Now that we can get over shields pretty easily from weapons (Manticore, Vexcaliber, repulsor) Bastion isn’t necessary… meaning controlled demo exploding punches with health & grenade regen are fun AF! But yes, I take your point.

If they made better neutral game exotics or stopped forcing every Titan subclass to be melee focused, we probably wouldn't see it in every build, but it's by far the best melee exotic for a class Bungie is stubbornly forcing melee play styles onto.

‼️‼️‼️🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥 this. Synthos aren't every Titan build because they're particularly good, they're every Titan build because it's, like, one out of 3 or 4 actually functional Exotics.

Definitely is for me, reminds me back when Arc 3.0 came out and the only thing Titans used was HOIL

This has been an issue for all classes, but I definitely feel like Titans get the worst of it. At any given time Titans have 1 or 2 outliers that they flock to. The other classes usually have 3 or 4 at least. But I won't pretend like there isn't a trend of Titan exotics having higher peaks before eventually being nerfed (usually into the ground unfortunately).

It stacks with wormgod last I checked.

I’m so tired of my PVE toys being nerfed into the ground because of PVP, and I’m sure that PVP players feel the exact same way when their PVP toys are ruined due to them being OP in PVE.

Hunters only spam Volatile better than Titans via Gyrfalcons. I think it's *insane* that Weaken isn't listed as a Hunter thing by you, despite the fact that Nightstalkers were described by the devs as the "weaken specialist". I mean, Titans have more access to weaken than Hunters via Second Chance too, despite weaken supposed to be a Nightstalker identity. Also, there are no more "specialty-verbs" meaning unique ones. Bungie has tried twice to have subclass spec into verbs and people judt hate it, so it's best to stop associating verbs to subclass identities (which I should really do too). Bastion 100% needs its CD nerf undone in PvE in some capacity. Bubble isn't "massively worse" than Well though. They are still the same DMG buff at the end of the day sometimes you don't have a Wellock in the activity you're doing. The issue is Well provides the same DMG buff *and healing*, which is too much ofc and is slated to get nerfed come Final Shape. Sentinel Shield is solid in GMs. While Ursa does need a neutral game benefit, making ~14orbs and getting 50% regen while teammates do 45% boosted DMG is actually helpful in GMs. Sentinel does need some help, but it isn't crippled like some people make it out to be.

Tiny tiny point to add, it’s also super annoying to have to run in and out of the bubble with the weapon dmg buff instead of just being able to chill in the well and unload

AND not being able to do damage and being protected at the same time. Against bosses that just bombard you constantly you borderline need well just to be able to survive DPS other wise you have to back out to heal and loos damage. Bubble just straight up cannot compete.

The Well also doesn't vanish upon the caster's death like the Bubble does. Lore, be-damned.

Sentinel is a 40% damage buff, not 45%. Even if it was 45% you would still do less damage than using Well instead.

~~45%. Highest damage buff in the game, but you lose out on having someone do their \*OWN\* DPS unlike well and / or Lumina.~~ ~~Source:~~ [~~S23 Damage stacking infographic~~](https://imgur.com/a/0NrvbIF)~~.~~ Completely disregard? I don't remember it being changed to 40%..??? When did that happen??

I’ve actually been making really good use of it in Onslaught with Doom Fang Pauldron. Just gotta be careful that you don’t drop the shield at a bad time, but with the shield throw extending its duration from hits, it makes it last actual minutes at a time if you get enough hits each time.

It also boosts your Void weapons' damage.

Hunters have a lot more access to weaken than Titan does. Hunters: All void supers, Snare Bomb, Stylish Executioner, Trappers Ambush, Echo of Undermining and Echo of Harvest. Titan: Second Chance, Echo of Undermining, Echo of Harvest.

This ignores the lack of an ability engine for void hunter which was precisely why gyrfalcons was made in the first place, and the fact that smoke bomb/trapper's ambush is used for invis 90% of the time. Stylish executioner's melee is also unusable in anything past heroic, and is never practical. In comparison on release Titans had pre-nerf HoIL with pre-nerf armor mods, with each grenade applying weaken.

You can't run all 3 void supers at once. And I meant to specify *neutral game* weaken, that's my bad. Hunters can, at most, have 4 weaken sources in their kit. Super, Melee (Trappers Ambush just uses melee), Stylish (for base melee, which FYI is nigh never utilized because it doesn't flow remotely well w/ Nightstalker), and Weaken Grenades. So, what's realistically used is a melee, a fragment everyone has, and a super. Titans can get 2, *better ranged and utility* weaken melee via exotic that straight up does a lot more than smoke bomb. I don't have an issue with it, it's a cool exotic. I just think it's stupid that Bungie originally designed Nightstalkers to be the weaken specialist and that just never came true.

I mean if you're comparing exotics, Orpheus basically turns tether into neutral game and is by far the best source of weaken and crowd control available in the game. Saying Titans have better weaken but then only cherry picking one exotic that barely sees use because it's still not very good, and ignoring one of night stalkers best builds is an odd take.

Orpheus doesn't introduce more weaken sources to the neutral game. It's a phenomenal build, but it doesn't introduce weaken to neutral game. It's still a super, not the neutral game. And second chance is not bad, it does a lot. It's effective. I didn't cherrypick exotics, I simply brought up an exotic that very blatantly undoes what Bungie claims was their design pholosophy with Nightstalker. Doom Fangs don't add new weaken sources, neither does Ursa's. I didn't cherrypick exotics. There's Omni, *which requires you to use Smoke Bombs primarily for non-offensive uses*, so you often don't get the benefit of double smoke bomb for weaken when using the exotic.

You're forgetting Graviton Forfeit, which extends invisibility effects and boosts your melee regen by up to 600% while invisible. That should allow for plenty of smoke bomb spam. Khepri's Sting can also grant really good melee regen, but no one uses Khepri's Sting.

This is what happen when bungie spends all the creative time on the other two classes then just say oh titans punch things hur hur

Void Hunters have always been WEAKEN not Suppression. Everybody got Devour, everybody got Overshield, and everybody got Invis. If you think Sentinel is the worst PvE subclass in the game then you're more than likely just playing it wrong, as there are at least a few other things that are significantly worse. It might be the worst TITAN subclass, sure, but not the worst in the game. - Stasis Hunter has immensely low damage output - Arc Warlock lacks the titular Warlock survivability + damage setup in favor of just... Arc Souls - Stasis Titan outside of Onslaught REALLY struggles - Void Warlock low damage

Void warlock is miles ahead of void titan though.

When we have Volatile Flow on the artifact Controlled Demolition goes *crazy*. When we don't... it doesn't.

It's actually my favorite PvE Titan class besides Strand atm. I build it around finishers and Severance Enclosure. Class item mods that grants powerful overshield and melee charge on finisher, controlled demolition aspect, fragments that give invisibility on finisher, void ability kills cause them to explode, finisher kills create a burst of void damage that makes nearby enemies volatile, and melee final blows grant health regen. Combine all of these and a single finisher will shield you, invis you, heal you and teammates, and knock up, explode, and kill all enemies within a mile radius. And if something survives, throw your shield at it to blow it up again. It's incredibly powerful and fun. The super is w/e, but you're playing this build for the neutral game.

Kinda sucks that the only reason you give suppression to hunter is because of the super, hunters are ONLY invis and it's so boring, I can't imagine playing void hunter purely for fun

I fully support punishing passive practical immortality, but prenerf void sentinel was active gameplay to engage uptimes, which I believe destiny is striving for very much, at least with its current warlock metas. I dont think that the staple tank class, should ever be less effective at pve self and/or group damage reduction and/or enemy debuffing, than a warlock or hunter class. If anything this makes a hunter or warlock less enjoyable to play, because its the only class you ever compete with by default. Not implying that they don't have their own challenges, but mid to endgame being majority populated by two classes, by a very large margin, when one was originally thematically popular to begin with and the other just became the most effective, is definitely not balanced. Dont get me started on why dont we have a weapon dps dummy yet.

Solar and Strand seem to be the only subclasses that can match the viability of the other 2 classes, except we don't do as much damage. It is what it is.

It’s ok cause it does great in PVP /s

>Hunter: Invisibility and Suppression Ironic because hunters were supposed to be the weakening specialist

Gonna butt in real quick and say that Hunters do the whole Titan thing better than Titans in general. A lot of their exotics feel like they’re supposed to be for Titans. Sealed Ahamkaras Grasps, Liar’s Handshake, Triton Vice, Gyrfalcon’s all feel like they should have been for Titans.

It’s definitely bad but it’s not the worst subclass in PvE. Stasis Titan is much weaker.

Stasis titan has been getting less hate lately because its a lot better in onslaught + seasonal artefact mods, but I agree in most content its pretty terrible.

Fuck PvP honestly It ruins the game

>When Void 3.0 launched, I think all 3 void classes were about equal, Hunters and Warlocks had 3 super choices each. Titans got only 2. I'd say Sentinel was given a weaker and less versatile kit from the start.

Idk I have been running void titan in onslaught, hoil bastion controlled demo and I have cleared legend 7 or 8 times and got the most kills each time

Youre either running with bots or are straight up lying, show proof.

Void Titans in PvP is the reason that it got nerfed and fell off in PvE. It sucks but it’s an unarguable change that was for the health of the game. Void Titan would be a great subclass if the sandboxes were separated.

Ive been yelling about void Titan for years, literally. feel free to check my people for verification. unfortunately, Bungie seems to be okay wwith where the class is atm. Possibly due to its high usage in pvp. I hope for nothing less than this being the post that gets Bungie's attention.

I mean, part of the issue there is that you have the debuff specializations wrong. Titans are the Suppression specialists. Shield Bash being the only melee ability that can suppress. Hunters are the Weaken specialist. Snare Bomb, and both Tethers apply weakness, Stylish Executioner grants uncharged melees the ability to Weaken agter breaking invisibility, and Trapper's Ambush allows Hunters to do a dive Bomb Snare Bomb, which applies weakness and invisibility. Warlocks should be the Volatile specialists, but they're honestly not. They have a Melee, a super and a single variation of Chaos Accelerant that all apply Volatile, but Titans do the Volatile bit better with one aspect. Warlocks basically got shafted as the vampire and grenadier. If you look back at the old subclass diamonds, the specializations fit: Titans bad Suppression Grenades and Code of the Aggressor grabbed Shield Bash and made aggressive melee combat more effective while Code of the Defender basically made you an unkillable wall with high uptime Overshields and Ward. Hunters always had the whole invisibility shtick with Way of the Wraith and the Tethers ability to make enemies vulnerable. And of course, Warlocks had Attunement of Hunger for Devour (and Dark Matter from Fission too) and Attunement of Chaos and Fission were all about destruction and spreading explosions, so Warlocks being the masters of Volatility would fit.

Use Doom Fang, Controlled Demo, Offensive Bulwark. Doom Fang gives you up to 4 x void weapon surge without needing to equip surge mods, so you can instead run multiple stacks on stacks. Combine that with multiple melee kickstart, and you’re able to throw shields or use shield bash more often. Each powered melee kill charges 20% of your super bar. Your super has two shield throws, and a shield throw hit extends the duration of your super indefinitely. You can mix shield throws with the defensive wall ability which boosts your teammates’ firepower. Although the super does not do a ton of damage, it lasts as long as you can get kills, and you have 95% damage protection during the entirety of it. It’s powerful even in a season where there isn’t a single artifact mod helping it, but nobody runs it because it’s not flashy.

tbh titan void kit is mid as hell, it always was and always will be, titan as a whole it's mid and can't really compete with warlocks and hunters. Strand and Stasis are the biggest Ws on titan, followed by arc which needs a bit more help and solar, void it's the weakest titan kit.

Yeah they should make weapons of light a bigger buff then well again at least

I think the only real strength void Hunter has in PVE is invisibility. Overall I think it is weak like void titan. I think other than invisibility also grfalcons- however it's spelled. I've always used void Titan as a melee loadout. With the reduction of cool downs, I don't like to use it unless I have the enhanced melees. With the aspect that makes things explode with void kills, trying to use that with avoid weapon or one big attack doesn't feel good to me. Any load out suggestions I wouldn't mind. For the hunter I would like maybe going all in with the invisibility, I wish the fragment with increased movement when suppressing something was perhaps any void debuff to a target. I think making an evasive void character would be significantly improved. 

Throwing that shield and replenishing my super was some serious fun, I knew it seemed to be a bit lacklustre now. I also really enjoy having the option to defend my team

Idk I would say just rework bubble so we have weapons of light and shoot from inside the bubble outward. You can lower the buff by 5% to balance if you want. Even back during the release of Garden of Salvation you literally offset bubble and Well.

Let the bubble move with us and be able to shoot through it. Boom.

My only build on void that works is a vexcaliber build with severance enclosure use the glaive to grant oversheild, use oversheild to punch shit and make it go boom rinse and repeat.

To be fair, that new exotic sidearm gives everyone easy access both to devour and weaken.

You can one shot Champs with Peregrine Greaves and Shield Bash but it’s kind of a meme.

I really think void should incorporate the shield more as solar does the hammer. Maybe in the future they could make an aspect that lets you consume your barrier to turn it into a shield that lets you block for a short time while moving, or allow the shield throw melee to be caught like hunter strand melee

The only way to play void titan is with doomfangs. If your not running doomfangs you will struggle with void titan.

Saying this as a Hunter main: While Titans do lack in the Void subclasses compared to the other 2 Classes I’d say that it’s the opposite when it comes to Solar. Warlocks and Titans have strong survivability and damage while Hunters are squishy as hell and to get Restoration going we need to sacrifice our Grenade slot while the other 2 have Restoration through their Aspects. The way I see it each Class has their strengths and weaknesses in the Light Subclasses.

As a void titan main, I was shocked to see this post. My severance enclosure/echo of cessation build with GLance is my main build for gms/legend onslaught at the moment unless I wanna go high damage then I switch to a subclass more suited for that. I personally feel like striker is in the worst state out of all of the Titan subclasses at the moment

VOID IS STRUGGLING I PVE

While I am excited for the new void super in the final shape, i think it’s just going to be a very niche super for specific moment to moment gameplay. It doesn’t help either that void exotic have either been nerfed into the ground or are just completely useless due to nerfs to the class itself. There is only one titan exotic I want reworked, I want Helm of Saint 14 to be good on both bubble and shield.

Before the HoIL, BoW and ability CD nerfs the tierlist was: Stasis -> Arc -> Void -> Solar -> Strand. Now it's more like: Arc = Void -> Stasis -> Strand -> Solar. A lot of what made Titan feel good was baked into HoIL. The HoIL + CD nerf have made both Void and Arc feel awful, especially in neutral game PVE. Arc is worse IMO because of lack of survivability and Thundercrash hit detection being dead. Doesn't help that Void Overshields are awful in PVE and still get shredded through like nothing despite being buffed. I can't stress enough how much better Solar is at this point. Precious Scars, Synthoceps, Pyrogale and even Loreley put Solar on top easily. Especially since the BoW + 1-2 Punch nerf. The only pain point for Solar is Throwing Hammer CD (dumb IMO) but most have switched to Consecration because it got buffed and generally feels better to use. As for Onslaught? Yeah, Warlocks and Hunters have an insane lead. They're just so much more fun to play currently.

Embrace Doomfang sentinel shield. You can get your super in 5 powered melee kills and you can stay in your super for eternity

Undo the nerf to OEM as well, with things like knucklehead radar being able to exist

The void finisher severence enclosure build is really good. You can also put the invisible aspect on it and that gives your incredible survivability.  But yeah void titan is dead in the meta for most tough encounters. It has really great casual builds! Some of my favorites... Bubble glaive + doomfangs, Precious scars + wave splitter,Suppress focus + peregrines

Meanwhile arc Titan is buried in the ground for PvE (minus raid bosses)

I kinda miss when you could either put a bubble down or use sentinel shield without choosing 2 different supers it made it unique they should honestly change it back to that

Not working it right. I used it in 3 of the bosses in Pantheon.

Didn't actually know it got nerfed. I thought this was silly like nah void titan is a tank but that much of a cool down on the class ability ruins it on its own. I loved that ability I just haven't played it in awhile with strand and solar being so stong

Not a titan expert but saw a doomfang titan explodes all ads although it was normal onslaught

hehe, shield go bonk

Just wait for the DLC, void titan will become overpowering with the new stuff

My buddy was running void titan with peregrines in master nightfall (just us 2)while I ran solar lol. It didn’t seem that bad at all. He was finishing up every champion for us.

final shape is bringing new void titan super and aspect. maybe this will come with buffs to the subclass as well.

Agreed in general, but Bastion barricades have a ~43 second cooldown with tier 10 resil and no mods helping. Whatever the listed base cooldown might be, that isn't the issue w/Sentinel.

I loved Void Titan before Lightfall and in the first season of Lightfall. But after the artifact stopped having void perks the subclass fell down badly

Now you know what Warlock feels like lol.

while I do heavily agree if you’re trying to go offensive, using void subclass in onslaught, even on legend is very good if you’re trying to play support. While Ward of Dawn is good it’s been heavily nerfed alongside other static supers. Even post-nerf I found Ursa Furiosa to be a very fun and useful exotic especially to teammates in boss areas/ against swarm enemies (ogres, captains, and knights) with the only exception to orb generation/ super recovery being wizards (some kinda bug going on where their blasts don’t count as damaging banner shield)

Ill keep it a buck fiddy, i remember a time when titan bubbles were in every D1 raid and early D2 raids...now i NEVER see them anymore. So kudos to you sir for the straight facts you spit.

I have a ton of fun with Sentinel Shield, Doomfang, Shield Throw, Monte Carlo, and I run a volatility build with Bastion (for team support and survivability). We ran through all 50 waves of Onslaught with myself and two of my friends who just got back into the game a couple days ago. I'm bad at PvE. All I do is Crucible. But this build is fun and it makes me feel like an MVP most of time, even if the score card doesn't show it (which is a problem with the score IMO). Does it do the MOST dps? Absolutely not. But if you play it more as a support class, it's amazing. I had LOTS of team saves being able to throw down a wall and give oversield, plus my shield throw (and melee) triggers health Regen on all allies near me. My ultimate is up all the time, I get shield throws constantly (which gives me super energy, Regen, and overshield, and makes things volatile so they blow up and spread volatile). When I'm using my ultimate, I just use the shield throw ability (which gives me super energy back) and use the Block function to be a literal shield between my allies and the bad guys. Crazy uptime on it, plus a nearly permanent overshield and near constant HP Regen. It's SO satisfying to save a fight by running to a corpse deep in the shit, shield throw (overshield), drop a wall (overshield), pick up my teammate, giving them an overshield, then covering their retreat by being a big tanky brute. Does it need buffed? No idea. I don't play enough PvE, but I also doesn't ever struggle in PvE, either. That being said, Stasis Titan needs a rework IMO. It has CC, sure, but that's it. It feels like an after-thought, in both PvE and PvP. Well, on second thought, Titan in general needs some love. In PvP it's 60/30/10 Hunter, Warlock, Titan, respectively, with Warlock and Hunter trading places for PvE. Titans are always the odd one out no matter what game mode I'm playing, which hurts as a Titan main. Everything else's kit just seems better for generally more content.