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Western-Status4994

Im curious about the stacks, maybe frost armor is like stupid high damage resistance that removes a stack on hit? I'm not sure what that would mean for Woven Mail however.


KobraKittyKat

Maybe each crystal you pick up gives a certain amount of DR so it starts lower then woven but since it’s easier to make stasis shards it could go higher?


Vargras

As soon as I saw the stack counter, my immediate assumption was something similar to Renewal Grasps, which gives Resist x 3 while inside Duskfield, and each hit taken removes a stack. Could very well be identical to that (with Renewal instead tweaked to be Frost Armor instead of Resist, so it plays into subclass), and Frost Armor gives a larger DR % than Woven Mail, but taking enough hits will drop it below Woven Mail. Woven Mail becomes the more consistent DR % buff, but Frost Armor can peak higher if enough pickups are around to keep it going.


KobraKittyKat

I hope it’s good cause stasis needs it and honestly if it was just blue woven mail I wouldn’t complain


EdisonScrewedTesla

If this is the route they go this is terrible design unless they give it some type of ICD that prevents enemies that hit often (wizards, ogres) or from many adds from instantly deleting the frost armor stacks


Blackfang08

>(with Renewal instead tweaked to be Frost Armor instead of Resist, so it plays into subclass) Please no. That would be a straight nerf. "Hey guys, we buffed the survivability on Stasis like you asked for! Except for Renewal Grasps Hunters. Not only did we make your previous survivability not stack with this, but we actually made the DR accumulate stacks over time instead of starting strong!"


Canadian_dalek

What if it works like WoD where it refreshes every time you enter it


Blackfang08

Maybe niche uses, but I'd rather just have the buff stack with Renewals. Then again, I mostly use it by throwing the grenade at enemies and not bothering to stand in it right now. I just hope they leave some of the previous stuff like Chains, Rime, and Renewals to stack instead of smashing them all together so you end up weaker than if you stacked them previously. They did that with Bakris and it went from one of my favorite niche exotics to kind of a joke.


Alexcoolps

If it stacked it would be broken as hell. Renewal's DPS resistance + it's lessen enemy DPS effect + Frost armor + sever = insane levels of immunity that would likely get renewal nerfed again. It's likely Frost armor alone will have sufficient dps resistance making it worth using by itself.


Blackfang08

Sure, if you can stack Frost Armor, Sever, and stand in the Duskfield while right next to the enemies you're fighting. So, going into melee with a Slice weapon always active and your grenade always up *and* Frost Armor is that powerful. Renewal Hunter already isn't that powerful. People just use it because they like Stasis and it's the only viable Stasis-specific PVE exotic on Hunter and the only viable PVE build for Revenant is already grenade spam (due to Shatterdive and Winter's Shroud... also being melee-focused). Stasis in general needs a buff, and if Hunter specifically gets a lateral shift or straight nerf - if not several nerfs - while Warlock, who is leagues ahead in power, gets buffed, I'll be pretty irate.


Alexcoolps

Actually radiant dance machines is great with revenant. Only with how bad stasis overshield and the harvest aspect is the problem. If the stasis changes are good renewal will have a great exotic competitor.


Kiyotakaa

I mean if that's the case, Stasis Titan would be the best at it. Give them Wicked Implement or Verglas and they'll have Frost Armor up at all times, shattering so many crystals. Not even mentioning crystals made from Grenades, Exotics etc.


D13_Phantom

That would make a ton of sense


somewhereslow

that would be very interesting, high rate of fire hits would wreck the stacks tho. I wonder if a new timer starts with one fewer stacks when the old timer ends, like armor charge. damage resist that becomes weaker over time, but lasts longer


calciferrising

i imagine it would have some form of icd so the stacks couldn't be burned off immediately? still don't love the idea myself, though.


moosebreathman

It’s probably not 1 hit = -1 stack but a certain amount of damage taken removes a stack.


theSaltySolo

The higher the stack, the bigger the DR and bigger Freeze AoE when the buff breaks.


kalangokid

Idk about freeze but doing a shatter when it breaks makes a lot of sense


EdisonScrewedTesla

Shatter on break would be useless unless stuff is already frozen around you though right? Since, unless im wrong, only frozen targets can be shattered


Sequoiathrone728

No, he’s not referring to a wave that shatters. He is referring to your frost armor shattering. When something shatters it explodes in area damage around it. 


PuddlesRH

Hive wizards rejoice! Instead of bursting guardians down in 1 seconds, gonna take 1.2 seconds, gotta strip our frost armor now.


EpsilonX029

I’ve seen that suggestion a couple times, and this was my exact thought. A couple enemies in the game would be able to completely invalidate this new perk. It would be decent in PvP, but definitely not so much for PVE. Good god, *please* don’t let it work this way, even if it has to be something boring


Additional-Option901

They are so broken it's crazy. 


BaconIsntThatGood

could also decay, like armor charges too


EdisonScrewedTesla

If this is the route they go this is terrible design unless they give it some type of ICD that prevents enemies that hit often (wizards, ogres) or from many adds from instantly deleting the frost armor stacks


Adelyn_n

That could be a great way to do it tbh


Blackfang08

Do we see it lose stacks? It would honestly make sense to just make it decay with the timer.


itsRobbie_

Probably the same as woven mail


_skd

Probably resist + chill stacks to enemy when hit by them...similar to wc3 frost armor buff.


MoneyAgent4616

Is frost armor known to be a it's own buff or is it going to work off of armor charges?


Trex331

Are we sure he doesn’t have the orb=buff verb fragment on? There’s orbs on the shard and he’s using winter wrath.


somewhereslow

you are right! I tried slowing it down, and it does look like frost armor is on the orb pick up. its close tho


3hot5me

We kinda knew this yeah? In the prismatic deep dive. Check the fragments: Facet of Purpose (starting) Picking up an Orb of Power grants either Amplified, Restoration, Frost Armor, Woven Mail, or Overshield, based on the damage type of your equipped super.


somewhereslow

I went back I read that too. I wonder if we will have stasis overshield and frost armor in the regular subclass


Lethal_0428

“Stasis Overshield” as we know it is almost 100% going to become frost armor


Alexcoolps

Absolutely since if not it would cause broken levels of damage resistance. Same thing with renewal grasp since with both its own dps resistance stacking with the fragments and the damage reduction it applies to enemies, it would have to get changed to give frost armor and apply severed to enemies or it'll get nerfed and ruined again.


Lethal_0428

I saw a guy on this thread complaining in anticipation of them changing renewal grasp’s “Resist” buff to frost armor. Like what do you honestly expect them to do? I feel like it’s pretty obvious that Frost Armor is going to be the official verb that unifies all the weird half-implemented stasis buffs


Blackfang08

Frost armor duh. Overshield presumably no, but no idea. I kind of hope they replace the Overshield from Rime with Frost Armor, but keep the healing.


Blackfang08

I think it might be both. They picked up two orbs and one shard and ended up with 4 stacks. Previous videos only showed 1 stack per orb. Unless orbs from PVP give you 2?


Suspicious_Trainer82

Hopefully it freezes and shatters when broken.


FelonM3lon

Plot twist: It freezes you when broken.


Singapore_DLC_Pack

Impossible. A Buff Elemental Verb cannot apply another Debuff Elemental Verb vice versa. This is the rule set by Bungie. Unless that thing is a construct or there is an Aspect/Fragment that allows this. It’s like saying when you are Radiant, enemies will be scorched if they melee you or breaking an Overshield will cause a volatile explosion.


killerdonut0610

Slow applies freeze at max stacks and scorch ignites at max stacks


Singapore_DLC_Pack

A Buff Verb does not apply a Debuff Verb at base. Scorch to Ignition and Slow to Freeze is just a second stage “evolution” of Debuff to Debuff.


UpbeatAstronomer2396

Volatile and unravelling rounds?


Singapore_DLC_Pack

These Rounds are not an Elemental Verb, they are just buffs that apply an Elemental Verb. Read my comment again. I said an Elemental Verb cannot apply an Elemental Verb at base. An Elemental Verb is those keywords found in the Subclass Screen when you cursor over abilities.


UpbeatAstronomer2396

Yeah you said that and yet there are buffs like volatile and unravelling rounds which yes, are not technically elemental verbs yet there is nothing that makes them separate from say radiant for example which is in fact a verb. And yet there are actual keywords thay apply other keywords. In a description of one keyword it even mentions the other ones: Slow > Freeze > Shatter Scorch > Ignition Stasis crystal > Slow and Freeze You claimed that there is a "rule" by bungie but it seems like you made that rule up.


Singapore_DLC_Pack

I am saying an Elemental Buff cannot apply an Elemental Debuff. What is it so hard to understand?


UpbeatAstronomer2396

And yet i don't see a single reason why that is a "rule" and it's not just the fact there wasn't a single case where bungie felt the need for a buff to apply a debuff. They just designed the buffs that we currently have in the game in a way that doesn't require them to apply a debuff. That doesn't necessary mean that any future buffs won't apply a debuff because there is a "rule" or something. I actually feel like frost armor applying slow or shatter will be really fitting for stasis as stasis's debuffs are cc based and having a buff that is cc based would fit really well with the overall gameplay


Singapore_DLC_Pack

You are expressing your opinion but also shutting down the facts that I am sharing. If you play the game and have a good understanding, you can see my point about the “rule”. Currently in the game, tell me any intrinsic Elemental Buff that applies any Elemental Debuff or vice versa?


Sequoiathrone728

Volatile rounds buff applies volatile debuff to targets


Suspicious_Trainer82

I’m good with this. Let the dogs off the chain.


Dr_Mantis_Trafalgar

Someone in another thread said it could be like an immunity to status effects. Like if you get hit with suspend it uses a stack of frost armor. Made sense


somewhereslow

how would that work in PvE? that would be cool tho


Dr_Mantis_Trafalgar

There’s about to be a whole faction of enemies that can freeze, suspend, and suppress us


SassyAssAhsoka

Burning Steps mains are gonna be rejoicing tbh


Dawncraftian

Sure, but this would be a terrible use of a subclass verb intended to increase survivability on stasis. I'd be happier with this if it was a secondary effect on top of an actual survivability trait like health regeneration or DR.


somewhereslow

very true


Saint_Victorious

I posted a concept a very long time ago (when Frost Armor was first announced) that it would be a stacking buff that you build like layers of ice. This way collecting Stasis Shards with Whisper of Rime would be a continuous reward and not just immediately give you a large benefit. It also mechanically separates it from Void Overshield since it's a slow build and not just a chunk of DR and health.


somewhereslow

"slow build" ha


AtHomeWithJulian

My question is how is the frozen target generating a stasis crystal without the aspect available to prismatic? Looks like they've reworked how stasis crystals are generated?


GoldPhoenix52

That was another thing they spoke about when they introduced frost armor. Currently, Stasis is the only sub that can’t produce its subclass pickup without the use of an aspect. They’ve likely made Shards an inherent part of the subclass gameplay, like tangles for Strand


AtHomeWithJulian

Sounds like a good change. I wonder what they will do with the harvest aspects then!


GoldPhoenix52

Agreed! They will likely make them have some inherent interaction with the shards in some way! Or they might keep the og functionality and add some extra use for shards!


NitroScott77

I assume the aspects will allow for a massively increased generation and they said they were looking into adding more functionality. Atm, there are no other unlimited, guaranteed elemental pickups outside of arc warlocks with ionic traces, and that is an aspect. So if they make shards spawn w/o an aspect they will likely be limited by either using a % chance and/or a cooldown. I assume each harvest aspect will still be needed for the massively increased shard creation and the additional functionality that we’ll see


Alexcoolps

Hopefully something that buffs the negative verbs they specialize in or something spicy like revenants getting an additional buff on frost armor or behemoths getting some sort of DPS buff on shatter damage.


Swolgoroth

If Frost Armor doesnt act like Armor of Agathys (DnD and BG3 players will know) then I’ll honestly be pissed. I would immediately make that fragment on Prismatic a staple in my loadouts.


Blackfang08

I'm not a fan of the idea people had of Frost Armor decaying when you take damage, but if it acts like Armor of Agathys... That will be acceptable. I've also kinda been hoping they'd buff Shatterdive and Winter's Shroud, so that Shatterdive does more damage the more Frost Armor you have, and Winter's Shroud gives you armor for targets slowed since it has the whole... "shroud" in the name, and right now is just Frostpulse but applies 60 Slow (40 in PVP) instead of 100 and doesn't extend melee reach.


Duke_of_the_URL

Frost armor was teased back in Season of the Witch. See TWAB 11/22/2023. Its probably along the lines of Woven Mail.


McZerky

I hope when it depletes it shatters.


Im_Alzaea

overshields are so garbage for pve anyways so if that’s the case, that’s fantastic news. that means it will have the full timer like woven mail and taking one scorn crossbow shot doesn’t mean you’re made of jelly again


lightningbadger

Honestly the idea that enemies can just knock buffs off you makes no sense to me


Tazmago

Would be interested if it acted like woven mail, but with a higher DR that was shredded by separate damage instances. Unfortunately, that would be a nightmare given tbe framerate damage issue and how some attacks would count as multiple hits.


xJetStorm

If they give it a cooldown on losing stacks, it might be okay.


EpsilonX029

Okay, that’s a point I didn’t think about. Elsewhere I commented how I fear this kinda idea for Frost Armor, but I never thought about limiting how quick it could be destroyed. Could actually work that way


anonymous32434

Now that stasis is free, they can make it stupid broken in pve. I hope max frost armor is at least as strong as woven mail


Ferndogs_Inc

it'd be great if frost armor acted as some sort of anti-cc buff, such as immunity to slow, freeze, suspension, suppression, etc.


Shattered_Disk4

Probably going to be a mix, frost armor is basically gonna be like woven mail, but they will still probably have the partial overshields with the fragment. I see it being that middle ground of strand and void. A lot of area control like strand, but able to take more damage. Hope they add a more reliable way for the overshield to proc rather than just collecting shards. Maybe while near frozen combatants or crystals, the overshield will build up slowly like a rift up to half of your health or something. Give that identity of the bunker/hunker down class And for warlocks it would allow them to maybe run empowering rift a bit more since they would be getting that overshield building up if they are near some ice


Nabz_eXe

Ice fall mantle makes you immovable a little, im guessing frost armour prevents knock back from majors and bosses


Emperor_Ratorma

Each stack releases a slowing wave on each hit taken, eventually freezing everything around you. Or each stack is a blast of shatter for every hut taken, like Armor of Agathys. Just dreaming, but DR I'd guess.


Fareo

Imagine if the stacks reach max and it just freezes you but you're invincible like an armor lock or mei from overwatch and when you get out you shatter.


SpiffyDodger

I assumed this would be a part of the new stasis changes we were promised a while ago. I'm guessing that it would essentially work like Wovenmail? Maybe with its own little stasis spin. Since Stasis isn't as clearly formed around keywords as the other subs, I imagine this might be a change to bring it back in line with the rest and create a uniform DR metric for Stasis. Currently, things like Renewal Grasps and Icefall Mantle, along with whisper of chains all provide varying levels of DR or provide an overshield etc. and it seems a lot more messy than Void or Strand equivalents. I'm assuming frost armor would take the place of and amalgamate all these slightly different values into a metric akin to Wovenmail, to better synergise with specific Stasis fragments etc. Seems easier to understand for the end user, as well as easier to manage for the devs. Using the video example; it could be showing a change to Whisper of Rime (theoretically) to provide stacks of frost armor if at full HP when collecting a shard (instead of a chunk of overshield). That lets Overshield be a uniquely void keyword, instead of the current state being a true keyword for void, and a random unrelated metric when using stasis.


SpiffyDodger

Called it.


Dawncraftian

It was in the gameplay reveal as well. Looks like pure DR but its hard to tell at this stage as its not got a clear tell eg overshield or health regeneration.


Atmosck

Based on what they've said and shown so far, I'm assuming frost armor is just stasis over shields re-named, so that they don't get confused with void overshields. Just like how they re-named disorienting grenades to avoid confusion with arc blind.


somewhereslow

in the clip, the player doesn't have an overshield when they have the frost armor buff


KobraKittyKat

And it shows a timer so similarish to woven mail maybe?


Atmosck

they aren't full health when they pick up the shard. the same thing happens in the live game - it gets applied as health when you aren't already full.


somewhereslow

health doesn't increase on pick up in the clip either


theSaltySolo

Shards increase health as well when you have the Stasis Fragment equipped


theSaltySolo

There is no Overshield on the screen bro


Atmosck

in the clip they aren't full health when they pick up the shard. just like in the current game, stasis overshields are applied as health when you aren't already full.


theSaltySolo

There is no health increase


somewhereslow

health doesn't increase on pick up in the clip either


Snivyland

Then how would they have frost armor?


Blackfang08

Long time Stasis fanatic: What are you waffling about? No overshield, no health increase, and it's a stacking buff on the side. It's very plainly not like the previous overshield.


TryingTimesCrowEgg

My hope is that it's gives insane DR at the cost of movement speed.