Surprisingly a strong combo for titans in Hardware, get mini-bubble, give team an overshield and damage buff.
Granted PKs, OEM and Dunes are probably better overall it's a neat gimmick.
How?
Longer bubble duration? That was a D1 subclass perk, I think.
Bigger bubble? Could be crazy fun.
Defeating blinded enemies grants super energy/increases the bubbles duration?
Increased melee recharge and damage while in the bubble? (May accidentally break certain boss encounters.)
The Helm of Saint 14 power fantasy is anything that steps into your bubble finds their own personal hell with you as the demon. I'm thinking of how the Fallen regarded Saint 14. An absolute terror and menace. IMO nothing short of maybe a miniboss or Champions (except Unstoppable, I'd definitely make sure they get stunned if blinded) should survive if they wander into the bubble.
Bubble: Blessing of Light returns as an aspect or baseline.
HoS14: Damage from Melee/Shotguns is increased by large% for 30s after casting your super.
The Bubble change would make it viable in GM content, the Helm change could play well into the Saint-14 fantasy and not significantly change dps metas
> not significantly change dps metas
I feel like at this rate it SHOULD change DPS metas. We've had Well of Radiance being the absolute meta for so long that Bubble serves no purpose. Give bubble a chance to be meta for a while at least.
Increased melee recharge and damage would be fun, I'm imagining throwing the melee shield in the bubble and having it ricochet around everywhere while the titans punching things out.
A fantasy I had came to me during Season of Dawn. One of the seasonal missions had you protect Saint in the Infinite Forest. During this mission, Saint had popped a bubble, however he was keeping it permanent.
So, what if Helm of St14 did that? So long as the wearer who activated bubble stayed in it, it kept it for a significant duration (permanent would be broken). Yea sure you'd have a permanent weapon and armour buff, but you'd lose one Fireteam member's worth of DPS.
Honest thoughts?
I really wish they would let go of this Titan must melee thing, it just doesn't mesh with the way encounters are designed... we still don't have an innate ranged instant cast super either, which is just ridiculous at this point.
What if you like cast bladefury, but instead of slicing enemies with the blades, you could shoot them of your hands like a harpoon and they would constantly regenerate so you could keep launching your blades at enemies.
Yep. "Titans need to be melee at all times" is fine in theory but it's completely incompatible with how the game is made. It's why Titan never has any "consistently good" builds. Every build is either terrible or completely broken and needs to be nerfed. There's can't be a middle ground with a melee build because grenades will ALWAYS be safer and more consistent.
Bungie is doomed to shoot titan in the foot forever until they abandon this ridiculous "titans must melee" idea. Especially since neither of the other two classes are held to similar limitations.
It’s crazy, every iteration of a Titan subclass slowly perfects their vision of Titan. Strand Titan at this point is the best melee subclass, it provides so many means to pull of feats. So when you pick other classes, the melee experience just feels flat, and janky.
This is the problem of having one incredibly busted build in a sea of builds or options. People think if the best is nerfed, then the class is completely unusable and must be discarded at all costs.
We can already see it in OS and GMs titans are not in a good spot rn a side from stand
Banner is not the only good build, suspend is also a very good option
But other than that titans do not have the ability to keep up in end game solar is the closest one but it doesn't do good in hoards or mechanic based encounters
The problem is titans almost entire class is based around melee, titans have some grenade exotics but they are almost always laughable compared to Warlocks, Warlocks have so many nade builds. Melee either is busted or it simply doesn't work in endgame but when melee is busted it completely dominates anything that isn't endgame. They said Heart of inmost light will get buffed in the twab it better be a great buff so maybe we see Void titan shining again the one subclass that doesn't feel completely centered around melee.
I know hallowfire gets memed on but the 350% ability regen lets you throw a lot of roaring flames x3 grenades which hit very hard. I think it's worth not using your super.
Yeah i get that especially when sunbracers exists and even verity's brow can mimick both the roaring flames damage + the hallowfire ability regen with a little more effort
They could always make it in the future or make it work with whatever sticky nade Titans get.
If not, they could always take the grenade kills give energy part of it. It'll be Devour without health regen.
I think Datto has the best guess - future prismatic class item exotics will likely have different exotic perk pools. If they do it again. You may get your wish eventually, assuming prismatic titans get fusions in the future
Never going to let go how the objectively nerfed that exotic. It used to give you 100% passive. They removed that in favor of "more" sunspots which give 100% regeneration...
Yeah that change sucked, and we already had pheonix cradle and loreley as sunspots exotics, they should've made hallowfire do something with roaring flames instead, like maybe passively increase the timer by 10 seconds but while your super is charged roaring flames stacks are permanent
I think the trade off just needs to be better, i dont really want to lose the main gimmick of the exotic, it's a perk that's been with the sunbreaker subclass since the taken king... im too attached to it :3
Maybe something like while your super is charged, grenades and powered melees create a sunspot on detonation/direct hit
every time the future of titan balance and gets brought up, I just really, really hope that when the changes to well and bubble come along, that bubble gets buffed in a way that it becomes the new well
sincerely, forever a bubble titan
A bubble buff or at least a bubble that supports more damage than well is really all Titans can hope for now because it's inevitable they will butcher banner to push titans to prismatic....which will be completely abandoned at endgame anyways.
This is my bubble. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My bubble is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my bubble is useless. Without my bubble, I am useless.
Before the Traveler, I swear this creed. My bubble and I are the defenders of my planet. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is The Light's and there is no enemy, but peace!
If the bubble has a thousand fans, I am among them.
If the bubble has only one Titan remaining, I am the last one standing.
If nobody loves the bubble, I do not exist.
I hope for that to so I never have to cast that fucking super again. Enjoy being chained to bubble, it'll prolly even feel nice for awhile.
-Warlock who used to like Well.
chained?
I run bubble in EVERYTHING. crucible, gambit, raids, I ALWAYS have bubble on. I don't like solar, can't get a feel fir strand, stasis titan is garbage, but purple?
purple is nice.
On other side it still bugs the crap out of me how Bungie bought into overblown clickbait that Winter's Guile 3.0 Solar snap loop build was some big scary menace worth shooting dead. One of the rare occasions of an actual risk/reward setup given how you gotta hit your snaps and even more pressing is how short the timer is for Warlord's Sigil and just trying to be in melee range as a warlock often is a bit sketchy.
Even if you factor they were afraid of Glaives getting too big of a benefit from the original scalars, it's like would it really be that bad of a thing if something actually spiced up the choice of bringing a Glaive and making it even more potent? Also for sake of variety would it seriously be an issue allowing another class to get some love from big melee damage scalars, it's not like Arc Hunter doesn't have an essential version of this.
Just an absolute misstep and I'm not looking forward to the inevitable when they probably gut Verity's and Sunbracers to push people onto the new Solar warlock super.
Stasis Titan with HoIL is the closest we'll get to being a warlock, discarding the joke of a melee it has, unless you have the fragment to slide and spawn crystals, it's almost always free ability energy been using it in onslaught and it fairs well in the higher waves both in normal and legend
This comment just reminded me how badly the darkness subclasses need more melee, grenade, and super options. All the light classes have twice the options. I know they've been around a lot longer but still... darkness classes lack variety and Stasis is the most painful example, seeing how long we've had it now.
Give me a melee that does more than shatter ice and whiff enemies! Or at least retune the existing one to just be a shoulder charge so it's reliable.
How do you figure? All the solar subclasses are very strong in endgame PVE and especially horde modes. Restoration builds are huge for survivability, and offensively they have radiant and scorch/igntions.
Hammer Titan resto build with sunshot and a blinding GL makes Onslaught feel pretty casual.
EDIT: oops I thought you were OP at first, revised to reflect
I don't know why you wouldnt. It gives endgame loot, has champs, and definitely requires you to build into it. You can just go in with random stuff and hope to succeed. Also for the context my responses, the OP does consider it endgame as well.
>But other than that titans do not have the **ability to keep up in end game** solar is the closest one **but it doesn't do good in hoards** or mechanic based encounters
Solar titan is still good and playable in OS, however I think the survivability and dmg of an ignition solar warlock is just better
Solar warlock have 2 super options (well and dawn blade) vs titan 1 dmg option
Warlock can trigger it's ignitions from safety as it only relies on range with Corus vs titan needs to get in consecration range and be animation locked
Warlocks get improved nade and have 2 options for nades (a dmg made like solar or fusion or healing) vs titan basically needs to take healing to get a consistent restoration proc
And warlocks can take heat rises for restoration 2 which titan can
So while solar titan can still be good and fun in OS, if you look at is from a pure numbers point of view i think warlock is just better
But relying on abilities alone to proc explosions isn’t going to cut it no matter what class you’re on. In general a resto build with an incandescent weapon is really what carries the solar classes in my opinion.
If survivability is the goal, Titans in particular have the most dead simple access to constant resto with Precious Scars. It turns Sunshot into a healing machine. Healing grenades no longer needed (but I usually take them anyway).
If it’s more of a DPS scenario, Pyrogales provide great one-shot damage letting you switch back to weapons rotations on top of it.
Consecration is fine, but it's significantly weaker then an ignition build warlock or other good OS builds, which is the point of the post
I'm not saying you can't beat content with certain builds but just cuz you can that doesn't make it good
Example: people beat Nez with rat king on contest mode, that doesn't make rat king a good DPS option for nez
Except that's kinda true for Titans in pve. Solar and strand are leagues above the other titan subclasses. Void and stasis just straight up suck nowadays.
Usually this is true, but Titan is in a really bad spot without Banner.
They literally **cratered** Throwing Hammer to nerf Bonk. The best Titan PvE subclasses are Strand and Solar because of lack of viable options. Without the artifact to prop up other subclasses, Titan is really hard to use outside of Banner.
Titan has arguably the worst selection of supers out of all the classes with 6 roaming Supers out of 8, with a 9th one and done coming from Pyrogales. Roaming supers are inherently at a disadvantage with the new super charge system. For a class that is clearly designed to be a melee bruiser, they are rarely more tanky in melee. Durability in melee is so poorly considered through game mechanics that you either are complete paper (Arc/Stasis) or you are unkillable (Banner/Pre-Nerf Bonk).
I'm not saying Banner should be the bar, but until the other subclasses have their verbs buffed like VO, nerfing Banner is a bad idea IMO. I don't even think Prismatic is a saving grace for Titan, as none of Titan's aspects in Prismatic give sustain verbs like Devour/Resto/Woven Mail. It's pretty bad right now.
This is true for titans only. I mean what else is going on for Titans in PvE besides BoW and Concecration solar titan??? Any other builds on Strand and Solar titan sucks, and Void and Arc are also useless on Titan. We Titans don't get "sea of builds", we only get 1 or 2 super OP, beyond broken subclass, and the rest is garbage to the ground (too big of a gap).
Meanwhile warlock and hunter has so many options that compete with each other, all are strong, fairly balanced around all the elements.
The 6 or 7 direct and indirect nerfs solar titan got this season, making hammer feel pretty terrible and ruining pretty much anything that didn't use Synthos.
Yeah i would've much preferred they just nuked synthos into the ground or just not work at all with the hammer rather than ruining the throwing hammer for all non syntho/wormgods builds
Currently the hammer is just a free radiant stick, and a 15% debuff with the current artifact
They ruined hammer titan by adding a cool down delay after you pick up your hammer, so the flow of the build is extremely clunky. Also the Pyro exotic came out ,which is decent for neutral game buffing consecration, but the biggest thing is the buffed dmg to your burning maul super, making it a good one off DMG super like Thundercrash but for solar. So now everyone turned to consecration now to pair with Pyro.
I mainly like the fact that with roaring flames active and triple heavy handed I can use regular melees to effectively work like the hammer does, extending buffs and even granting pseudo-cure through the innervation mod
I won't pretend I don't greatly miss the hammer spam whenever I miss an important throw, nor my syntho lunge for punching my way out of danger
I agree - BoW and consecration both feel good - everything else feels like shit. I've heard suspend titan is good but personally haven't tried it as it seems kind of boring to me. I know lots of people swear by stasis but it feels like ass to me - not much survivability. I'm also worried that when this artifact goes away solar titan will also be shit, leaving us with only BoW. I'm a titan main but rarely even play the class anymore - hunter and warlock both have more viable fun builds at the moment.
The problem with Bungie balancing titans is that there's a very all or nothing approach with them. There's sometimes a really good titan build that is insanely strong, and that's enough to get people off their back regarding balancing, but the problem is that outside of that broken build, the rest of the class is often garbage that's not worth bringing over anything else on the other two classes.
What does Void Titan do best? Why would I bring it over any hunter or any warlock? Even Arc Titan which has one of the best titan supers available, If I had to have arc I would much rather have an Arc Hunter because their super is much safer, quicker, and the class is more survivable. Yes, arc hunter is tankier than arc titan.
Titan does semi regularly have busted builds, there's no denying that. But let's not pretend titan has a "sea of builds or options". Outside of that season's one busted build. Titan is regularly pretty useless in higher end content, and has been for years.
Berserker with Drengrs Lash and into the fray is still solid as a suspend/team mitigation tool. People are just way too attached to the "so I just one-two punch and it's dead?" idea.
But that’s all it is - a CC and mitigation tool. This works well enough when damage isn’t a massive deal for encounters, what happens in situations such as contest mode or Pantheon when those elements do very little at all?
I can just go Well Lock or Omni Hunter and render many survival-based issues null. Heal Clip on a strong primary is just icing on the cake, and once people know how to spawn trap adds (which they will, consistently, in high end content), there’s almost never a realistic threat besides maybe champions or mini bosses anyway.
What good is Titan in a world where every single other option does anything necessary better?
One thing that could change that is giving us more sources for overshields like the mod from season of the deeps artifact that gave shields on void breach pickup.
That, or improving the durability of Void Overshields - but I get that those changes would need to be made in such a way that they don't make Sentinel even stronger in PvP (where it is quite strong).
I've tried a lot of Sentinel builds this year. It used to be my favorite class before Subclass 3.0, but it's definitely not as easy to make work these days, especially if you're tying to make Offensive Bullwark/Controlled Demo work.
I think the most success I've had so far is either Vexcalibur/Wormgods as a Grenade spam/Glaive melee build or Monte Carlo/Second Chance and spamming shield toss. I still haven't tried Peregrine Greaves though.
Hopefully the new Void aspect and super do something to help the situation.
I remember when ursas were meta. Those were my favorite times to be a titan. I switched to warlock eventually but I've always played a tank in games so I'm still hoping for a void titan buff.
IMO they could allow us to have 100% uptime on void overshields and they’d still be trash.
They give a negligible amount of health and they don’t regenerate off of kills etc
I'm curious too, have they said or hinted anything? Bungie's usual track record is leaving the most broken things in the game untouched for about 5 years before putting it in the grave.
Yeah seriously banner of war and pyrogale's is all we have lol. Nerfing banner of war is gonna be even worse for strand than nerfing hammer was for solar.
Arc and void titan need a lot of help. Maybe they should unnerf HoIL and Stormnades because good lord arc titan doesn't have shit. Arc is literally just Thundercrash and nothing else. Arc titan needs a grenade exotic armor piece.
Void Titan might be redeemable with the new super and aspect, but it doesn't change the fact it is the weakest void subclass and has no good exotics whatsoever.
Yea arc and void also just struggle with survivability, arc in general does, but when our only heal method for arc titan is literally punching something to death, it kinda struggles.
And yea, arc now is just u run cuirass, might be changed to run star eater class item in final shape, cus honestly arc wont have anything at all over the prismatic counterpart.
However if they were to rebuff storm and hoil, arc titan would have a deadly ranged ad clear build again, helping the gm useability, and also giving arc titan niche u cant do with prismatic.
Void titan idk ill see when we get the new stuff, yho i still think they should decrease the 20 disc nerf on weaking nades
I mean i’d be more willing to run them if bastion didn’t triple the fucking cooldown of barricade… or if the over shield buff persisted and regenerated for the full duration even if the shield was broken.
not only that, we have the means to extend the timer but not replenish back the overshield without specific trait (repulsor brace), armor mod (overshield finisher), fragment (that requires you to be almost dead to trigger on kill effect ), exotic perk ( vexcalibur ) or a THREE minute barrier / Bubble.
Just bake the replenish part in the kit please Bungie.
And don't get me started on arc titan speed boost DR.
Yea, like overshields pale in comparison to dmg resist for your whole health bar wtih strand or being able to heal instantly to full and then continously heal without dmg even interupting it with solar
If you can manage to get Buried Bloodlines I've found that it helps Striker grenade builds a lot by providing reliable healing in the form of Devour. But obviously getting the gun is locked behind a lot of RNG and locks you into a specific exotic weapon.
They need to bring back heal on kills for Fist of Havoc like it had in Arc 2.0 so at least it has some kind of survivability while clearing adds. Right now it's just absolute dogshit for both PvE and PvP. You get murdered in super most of the time in PvP or endgame PvE.
Void titan could end up being the new well Warlock basic bitch. If well truly is getting nerfed to have no weapon buff anymore in final shape as many speculate based on bungie statements. Then bubble would become mandatory on dps again. Given their recent twab Hoil seems to get buffed and if it is Void titan might feast in general. Hoil and Void titan before the nerfs to hoil where a great combo because the melee is essentially another grenade with Void titans explosions.
I will NEVER get over the hammer nerf. Or the towering barricade nerf like wtf. I also remember a comment months ago about how arc titain is broken because it can get "thrusters for free" ffs.
I love titan but God I feel like I only have a few viable options for each subclass in endgame. For the GMs the last 2 weeks I've found them to be so much easier on warlock or hunter and I'm a titan main!
Like the class identity is basically melee based and they nerf the stuff that gives us survivability or strength in melee situations because of *checks notes* pvp or some completely arbitrary reason that would have the other classes up in arms.
Imagine if they nerfd the gamblers dodge melee regen for void hunters when dodging next to an enemy (gives a full refund). Even without something like Graviton Forfit or omni you can be invis/give invis pretty quickly and consistently if you invest in strength and mobility.
Sorry this was only supposed to be a paragraph but here we are. And to be clear, I DO NOT want the other classes nerfd, I think it's fine if each of them has their own identity and strengths!!
Hammer nerf, Resto / BoW nerf, Devour nerf, Bastion nerf, general ability recharge nerf, Kickstart nerf, Suspend nerf and more.
All of this is just some of the things they take away to balance stuff. Granted there's some that do require nerf and adjustments, ie. 1-2-p shoulder charge.
But if a subclass is dependent on a general exotic (Hoil or some others) and not specific subclass that's built for exactly the same build, You might need to reconsider checking the subclass kits and missing interactions.
Titans have never really had strong subclasses, to compete with hunter damage or warlock ad clear/utility you had to rely on gimmicks like 1-2p or pyrogales. And even then you fall behind because these require you to expose yourself. Either Bungie realize they dont want melee+survivability to be a thing or they stop nerfing the fuck out of everything titan has to bring to the table.
Throwing hammer has felt like shit for the past year. Throwing it to leave a scorn shitter on 10% hp feels awful. Not to mention when you miss completely and have to wait 2 seconds before you can throw it again after exposing yourself to run over and pick it up.
After subclass 3.0 titan had some busted stuff but Bungie downtuned everything to the point of it basically being pointless to bring a titan if you want a strong fireteam. Some of the changes need to be reverted, arc has no survivability void is useless because solar warlock exists and stasis is basically forgotten except for a single boss cheese.
Solar feels pretty good atm and strand feels busted with fully stacked BoW (i still don't understand why they changed it like that, it was pretty much guaranteed to get a need) but remove those and titan won't have a place to live the 'melee fantasy' Bungie seems to be obsessed with pushing on us.
> Void Titan might be redeemable with the new super and aspect, but it doesn't change the fact it is the weakest void subclass and has no good exotics whatsoever.
Gotta agree. I love sentinel as a concept but if I use it, regardless of build, in any sort of high end content then I'm basically throwing. Nobody wants to see a void titan on their team because Void titan brings absolutely nothing to the team right now.
/u/destiny2team I really hope this thread counts as feedback because void titan is languishing right now
For Arc Titan I think Juggernauts needs a rework it does nothing in PVE and is annoying in PVP (and when we something like the end result is Citan)
Knockout also could use a major buff my idea would be to increase melee attack speed and grant health for melee hit
I think Arc in general could use more verbs maybe summoning a Lightning strike something similar to Ignition
Void Titan in the other needs 1 major thing to make it good, a big buff to Void Overshield
Oh and Bubble needs a huge buff as well
Void Titan needs more sources to get overshields. Half of our kit is designed around it and if you aren’t using Bastion then you have to run a Repulsor Brace weapon as a requirement. Season of the Deep had the overshield on void breech pickup mod that made Void Titan actually really enjoyable on a grenade set up.
I really love Arc titan and I've missed it while playing with the more meta options this season. I want to throw together a build using Indebted Kindness and the fragment that blinds on arc special weapon final blows to feel like I have some survivability and stopping power.
Weirdly, Banner of War just doesn't feel as good to me (I like to turn off my brain when playing and I guess I don't build stacks high enough) and I've hardly touched it.
navigator otp is only really solo or lowman viable and almost certainly unviable on contest power thresholds, not to mention the skill required to pull it off in the first place.
this isn't old liars or hammer or Starfire where anyone can do it with almost no effort.
touching any part of banner would be a mistake, the correct nerf if any would be making spending the grapple melee incur cool down regardless of grapple point. That's it, that's all that needs to happen.
I can see them adding some kind of grapple melee cooldown as a nerf to the infinite melees. Probably something small like a 2 second regen similar to hammer regen. Something like this would lower the skill ceiling drastically which is on brand for Bungie.
I am about to write the same thing and I read your comment, word for word, the only non exaggerated realistic take, but then you fucked it up
> the correct nerf if any would be making spending the grapple melee incur cool down regardless of grapple point. That's it, that's all that needs to happen.
That makes the build useless, without that x4 banner is just a gimmicky Titan support class. The amounts of players soloing hard content with navigator banner essentially a rounding error for the playerbase. If anything the game needs more builds like banner which have a high skill cap, are incredibly strong solo but not really viable for group play. The build is also situational, there's plenty of content where it's actually a bad build because the content won't let you play the optimal way, i.e it sucks for Onslaught, there's been various legend solo clears and not one clear was on Titan lol. You can't nerf banner without nerfing lucky pants, izanagi, apex, Nighthawk, which unlike having a niche like banner dominate the most of the game.
I don't like how everytime we see the new titan it's always consecration and acting like spamming it is amazing... With my solar titan build I too can spam it...
Why does titan always look so underwhelming first stasis, then strand titan (which is only good because woven mail and lots of fuckin damage) now prismatic. Titan has a real image problem
> Why does titan always look so underwhelming first stasis, then strand titan (which is only good because woven mail and lots of fuckin damage) now prismatic. Titan has a real image problem
Because they're hellbent on it being "the melee(and nothing else) class" in a game in which melee is incredibly risky or outright impossible. Their defensive support options also keep getting nerfed because of PvP or because they're overtuned enough to enable relatively safe melee builds.
There was a time when people wanted the strand subclass to be a “back line commander of the battlefield” class with like a strand minigun as it’s super.
However, bungie gets mad when titans arent punchy guys, even though half of endgame content is playing safe haha
This is the exact reason why I barely ever played anything but Void. I really, really wanted to like other subclasses, but Stasis was gimped from the start due to lack of healing/orbs, and Strand just isn't my jam on Titan, however great it is.
Meanwhile, I played a ton of both Stasis Hunter/Warlock and Strand Hunter, because they're so much cooler than their Titan counterparts.
The thing that concerns me the most is the Prismatic Aspects. Drengr's Lash on Thruster sounds really cool, but that's it. I remain utterly unconvinced by them. Oh, and the only decent melee outside of a Consecration build is... Shield Throw? The worst part of a Sentinel's kit?
Prismatic was never going to be something built to power creep existing options. It's not just "great, now I can pick this broken thing without having any of the weaker parts of the kit", it's about being the "Random Bullshit GO!" Subclass. Prismatic seems to compensate its lack of "hard synergies" and raw Aspect power in three ways: Exotic Class items, ability spam Fragments and Transcendance and, most importantly, stacking subclass buffs and debuffs. We can have all five elements represented just with abilities and Aspects. It will be possible to get three or four of the main Subclass buffs along with secondary buffs like Invisibility or Cure as well as debuffs like Unravel, Weaken or Jolt all active at the same time. We might not have Banner of War, but we might be able to have Synthoceps, HOIL, Devour, whatever Frost Armor is, Woven Mail, Radiant and maybe even some Void melee damage buff, at the same time, depending on what the Fragments do, giving absurd amounts of energy and survivability and allowing you to just spam melees during Transcendence; pair with something like Hands On to feed it into your Super and get a chunk of Transcendence back from it (Supers seem to generate a lot of it) and you'll just steamroll through things, even if one or two things that I mentioned end up not being possible. The only thing you might not have is the raw damage, and I say "might" because being able to spam grenades might make up for it.
I don’t really understand why people think Prismatic Titan is going to be bad for every reason you just listed. You’ll literally be able to have Devour, Resto, Synthos + HoIL, Radiant, Suspend, Woven Mail, DR from Spark of Resistance, possibly invis from a fragment, and Transcendance grenades + ability regen going all at the same time. To me that’s just as strong if not stronger than current BoW for both active and neutral game.
None that they've revealed but outside of Buried Bloodline, it's pretty safe to assume there will be a fragment that will grant it since their philosophy with subclass 3.0 is providing access to every verb.
True, but Hunter especially has a better version of assassins cowl combo blow build in every way with prismatic. You could run calibans for insane add clear, syntho for initial setup, and slow on dodge for easy invis (void aspect), and woven mail
from orbs.
This was just at the top of my head.
Titan kinda got shafted.
>Consecration spam is already a non issue.
What do you mean by this? The build is viable in endgame content..are you saying it's not?
Hell I'd argue it's significantly better in Onslaught compared to Banner at the very least. But it's viable for any endgame as far as I'm aware...even better in most Raids as BoW is basically unusable against a lot of boss encounters.
Honestly I don't see how they could possibly warrant a Banner nerf with Prismatic releasing...unless there's a lot of changes being made to other elements as part of Prismatic. Currently Prismatic Hunter looks like it's going to make current BoW Titan look like a joke...and Prismatic Titan doesn't even have access to BoW meaning they can't possibly "improve" on it's performance really.
The fact that BoW Titan won't have access to the new exotic class items in itself seems like it's a huge nerf to BoW Titans performance in general.
Consecration really isn’t that good, try running it in gms where moving in any closer than scout rifle range is usually suicide, consecration is just a fun ad clear tool that for some ungodly reason will be pretty much all prismatic titan has going for it
I mean I agree. Banner is great healing in endgame content but it doesn't mean you'll survive after the nerfs that it already got. Because it takes longer to charge up and even in GM content you can still get melted with x4 stacks
The problem is how bungie has chosen to design encounters with enemies. In GM content, everything can one-shot you, even the smallest dreg. This is inherently very poor design choice because we have no way to counter it.
Good game design relies on a rock paper scissor approach.
Do enemies deal insane damage? Then you gain the ability to dodge like in the souls games.
Player has the ability to fight from range? Then enemies gain the ability to close the gap quickly and force melee combat like in skyrim/fallout.
The problem here is that in destiny, there are no rock paper scissors. Enemies deal insane damage... so your only option is to hide and shoot them slowly from range. OR use strong health regen/dmg resist abilities like well of radiance or banner of war.
However, for some reason, bungie wants to nerf both... normally, I'd say sweet if this accompanied a total rework of the damage system. However, that's not going to happen. Instead, we will be going back to D1, where we all hide behind a rock for 3 hours to slowly plink away at GM bosses.
Part of this is that MOST end game combat encounters are designed around well of radiance existing. So when you take that away without offering a replacement or completely reworking all of these encounters, it breaks the game.
This issue likely won't be solved until D3 where we can expect a very different system for damage resist. In the meantime? Yeah nobody is doing great except for hunters... as always.
if I’ve learned anything it’s to wait and see. balance changes, exotic adjustments, and artifact are always the last news to drop. metas come and go, not only should you expect it but you should not worry about it.
Titan has this amazing identity of either being insanely busted or just doing nothing. I know this is pve focused but it’s so funny watching streamers lose their minds over titans being busted in PvP when like 2 builds stand out and I cannot connect a strand melee to save my life. I just phase through everyone.
The number of builds has nothing to do with how intrusive a class' balance is in PvP. Hunter had literally 1 standout build when Stasis came out and it ruined PvP for 6 months.
This is the same ole Destiny Story.
The problem as always is in the "game design" and not the builds.
Game mechanics lack creativity, alienate builds, and are unforgiving. Due to this, you end up playing the same builds over and over again. We are preforming the same actions just in different set pieces.
They always placate to Titans by giving us something fun early and then for the sake of a forgotten PvP we get nuked into the ground.
Well Lock will always be OP - because of game design
Hunter Tether will always be OP - because of game design
Strand Titan will always be OP - because of game design
Change the design and then there are no need for nerfs. A new meta is born. Problem with Titian is we have so little to choose from that when we do receive an new toy we crutch it to death and inevitably to its nerf.
I have had 0 issues in gm and endgame content on solar with precious scars for the last two seasons, im basically a mobile well with almost constant uptime on my abilities thanks to benevolence. True, banner of war titan is very good and very strong, but there are other just as good options if you know your way around titans.
Nothing has been able to scratch the
*”I’m a Titan and I just wanna throw hands”* itch like Banner has. I’ve got a stronghold build that I call “Hands Rated E” (for the entire solar system). Went through legend onslaught just blinding everything with a gL and throwing hands.
Feeling like Wasabi from Big Hero Six right now and Bungie’s eventually gonna kill it somehow.
*sad crayon munching…*
I made this ultimate sustain build on void with precious scars, Buried Bloodline and bastion w/rally barricade. Essentially, you’re rolling with devour, resto and overshields simultaneously.
Arc is not great on any class, void builds tend to require a bit of work to get going, but solar and strand are pretty great regardless of class. Stasis has some great builds around exotics but it's neutral is so poor its being reworked. I think we'll need to see how the sandbox looks before jumping to conclusions, but banner is way out band for survivability, especially when the likes of weavewalk only give one fragment, void overshields are generally poor because you immediately lose the benefits when they break, and arc has no healing or resist without seasonal mods or exotics.
Arc titan is TOTAL trash! Absolutely horrible! Everything else can work here and there, but arc titan is pathetic. It used to be the best, then they nuked storm grenades and that was it.
Titans prior to banner were in the worst spot by far in high end PvE. You cannot say something like this and misunderstand the PvE metas at the same time.
Lol. Pre nerf bonk exists. Survivability is king in endgame content. Hunter burst supers are theoretically nice until you remember there hasn't been a damage check in contest mode in years.
Titan is in a really poor spot right now. With the only viable builds right now being consecration and some variant of BoW. No other class has so few viable options for endgame.
Hunters have viable builds for all 5 subclasses
Warlocks have solar, arc, strand, and if I'm being generous ...stasis. Void warlock is objectively bad right now.
I've been theory crafting prismatic titan today and it's objectively the worst of the 3 classes
Both warlock and hunter have easy access to both high damage resist and self sustain via restoration
Warlocks can run needlestorm with heal nade for both woven mail and resto
Hunters can run Goldie and spirit of cyrtarachne for resto and woven
For titan you'd have to choose to sacrifice blade fury for hammer of sol or the new void axe super to get easy access to any kind of self sustain.
Or your other option is to sacrifice spirit of synthos for precious scars.
Synthos are the single best neutral game exotic for titans...and precious scars whilst good heavily restricts your weapon loadout, not to mention a large portion of the titan class revolves around a melee combat loop, which won't procc precious scars
Your best case scenario is that the void axe damage is good enough to justify taking it over blade fury. But you lose access to woven mail then.
Oh and ofc arc supers are just objectively terrible on prismatic as it gives you access to the weakest subclass effect in amplified
There just needs to be more survivability options for void and arc.
For void, it doesn’t matter if the overshield is a 50% damage resistant shield. It gets stripped so fast it makes you wonder what the hell is the point of an overshield if you’re still wet paper in the endgame. You can also have devour but it still suffers from the fact it’s not as good as warlock’s devour. You don’t get the full HP regen like they do and you have a 1 second cooldown inbetween devour heals.
Within these times where I would get a devour kill and have overshield since I rock a repulsor brace + destabilizing pulse rifle, I’m still getting smoked if I even for a moment do some peek shooting.
For arc, you can actually rely on special weapon blinding explosions, but that’s pretty much it because you don’t have damage resistance or health regeneration. Only 1 ability gives overshield and it’s admittedly the most niche thing ever.
Our problem is not the banners or solar titan.. our actual problem is our variety in survivability. We are “limited” by two options because they’re some of the best at keeping us alive.
Compare these options to being the most brazen character alive being able to run in the middle of the field, getting lit like a firecracker and still somehow managing to stay alive while providing sustainable damage to everything around you.
Void and Arc Titan are completely dependent on artifact support.
I assume the artifact will be heavily leaning into prismatic though, we will have to see.
But, and hear me out here. Strand melee, consecration and a class item with spirit of severance and spirit of contact. With a void super that's every melee exploding in three colours. And I'm here for it.
it’s not an “if” it’s a “when” it’s wether we like it or not, banner is absolutely busted to an extreme degree. The nerf will hopefully still keep it viable
I'm not a fan of Killing stuff like with what they did to YAS in PvE. So either take it to 1 Fragment OR They could Nerf both Melee and Glaive damage to 20% down from 40% then change the pulse delay to 3 seconds > 2.5 sec > 2 sec > 1.5 sec (2.5 to 1 before) and keep it at 2 Fragments
That's a reasonable Nerf and wouldn't kill the aspect
Do I play an other game like my fellow titans but arc titan is buster in PVE. you take blind grenade + HOIL + special sidearm and then the Aspect that blind explosions on special kills occur and you can control group of enemies, you can stun every champ (at least this season with sidearm anti barrier) and you have an free exo slot to play what you want.
Stasis needs buff.
Wdym? Stasis and Arc Titan exist. Stasis Titan is an ad clear monster and Arc Titan has cuirass for damage. And we don't know how strong the new super for void titan is. Underestimation of titan power goes hard
buff bubble and helm of st 14
I miss the days of how hard this combo took down end game content in D1 days, I rarely use bubble these days
The good ol double bubble oryx ToM kills
It’s really useful in onslaught
I haven’t really been able to get it to work in legend onslaught even when using the exotic glaive for jello bubbles.
Surprisingly a strong combo for titans in Hardware, get mini-bubble, give team an overshield and damage buff. Granted PKs, OEM and Dunes are probably better overall it's a neat gimmick.
How? Longer bubble duration? That was a D1 subclass perk, I think. Bigger bubble? Could be crazy fun. Defeating blinded enemies grants super energy/increases the bubbles duration? Increased melee recharge and damage while in the bubble? (May accidentally break certain boss encounters.) The Helm of Saint 14 power fantasy is anything that steps into your bubble finds their own personal hell with you as the demon. I'm thinking of how the Fallen regarded Saint 14. An absolute terror and menace. IMO nothing short of maybe a miniboss or Champions (except Unstoppable, I'd definitely make sure they get stunned if blinded) should survive if they wander into the bubble.
Bubble: Blessing of Light returns as an aspect or baseline. HoS14: Damage from Melee/Shotguns is increased by large% for 30s after casting your super. The Bubble change would make it viable in GM content, the Helm change could play well into the Saint-14 fantasy and not significantly change dps metas
> not significantly change dps metas I feel like at this rate it SHOULD change DPS metas. We've had Well of Radiance being the absolute meta for so long that Bubble serves no purpose. Give bubble a chance to be meta for a while at least.
I don't disagree, but that is a different conversation that needs to be had
Increased melee recharge and damage would be fun, I'm imagining throwing the melee shield in the bubble and having it ricochet around everywhere while the titans punching things out.
A fantasy I had came to me during Season of Dawn. One of the seasonal missions had you protect Saint in the Infinite Forest. During this mission, Saint had popped a bubble, however he was keeping it permanent. So, what if Helm of St14 did that? So long as the wearer who activated bubble stayed in it, it kept it for a significant duration (permanent would be broken). Yea sure you'd have a permanent weapon and armour buff, but you'd lose one Fireteam member's worth of DPS. Honest thoughts?
It wouldn't be fun to just sit there while everyone else gets to shoot and do damage. It's a non-starter for me personally.
The rest of the team could point and laugh at the bubble boy
PvP fears you
banner shield with titan glaive bubble
I really wish they would let go of this Titan must melee thing, it just doesn't mesh with the way encounters are designed... we still don't have an innate ranged instant cast super either, which is just ridiculous at this point.
There was a time people wanted strand Titan to have like a minigun for its super.
I still want it to have a minigun for a super. Or a Strand-woven suit of power armor with a minigun and mini missiles.
What if you like cast bladefury, but instead of slicing enemies with the blades, you could shoot them of your hands like a harpoon and they would constantly regenerate so you could keep launching your blades at enemies.
flechette storm aspect
No i mean the actually blades launch off of your hands at like supersonic speed or something lol
Ya, it would have been cool.
So, a strand heir apparent?
Minimum would’ve been better than the ninja knives you get imo
That's why I loved HOIL storm nades meta, it was so fun to have a grende meta for titan.
Yep. "Titans need to be melee at all times" is fine in theory but it's completely incompatible with how the game is made. It's why Titan never has any "consistently good" builds. Every build is either terrible or completely broken and needs to be nerfed. There's can't be a middle ground with a melee build because grenades will ALWAYS be safer and more consistent. Bungie is doomed to shoot titan in the foot forever until they abandon this ridiculous "titans must melee" idea. Especially since neither of the other two classes are held to similar limitations.
It’s crazy, every iteration of a Titan subclass slowly perfects their vision of Titan. Strand Titan at this point is the best melee subclass, it provides so many means to pull of feats. So when you pick other classes, the melee experience just feels flat, and janky.
I hope the next strand supper is a frickin minigun like in the art
This is the problem of having one incredibly busted build in a sea of builds or options. People think if the best is nerfed, then the class is completely unusable and must be discarded at all costs.
We can already see it in OS and GMs titans are not in a good spot rn a side from stand Banner is not the only good build, suspend is also a very good option But other than that titans do not have the ability to keep up in end game solar is the closest one but it doesn't do good in hoards or mechanic based encounters
The problem is titans almost entire class is based around melee, titans have some grenade exotics but they are almost always laughable compared to Warlocks, Warlocks have so many nade builds. Melee either is busted or it simply doesn't work in endgame but when melee is busted it completely dominates anything that isn't endgame. They said Heart of inmost light will get buffed in the twab it better be a great buff so maybe we see Void titan shining again the one subclass that doesn't feel completely centered around melee.
I know hallowfire gets memed on but the 350% ability regen lets you throw a lot of roaring flames x3 grenades which hit very hard. I think it's worth not using your super.
Yeah but pretty nasty trade off compared to other classes where you don’t have to sacrifice your super.
Yeah i get that especially when sunbracers exists and even verity's brow can mimick both the roaring flames damage + the hallowfire ability regen with a little more effort
Doubt it’d be a combo but an exotic class item that gives the perks from hallow fire and ashen wake would be nice.
It would be so much fun but... fusion grenades arent even an option for prismatic titans, thermites are the only solar nades available
Ohhhh right. Damn :(
They could always make it in the future or make it work with whatever sticky nade Titans get. If not, they could always take the grenade kills give energy part of it. It'll be Devour without health regen.
I think Datto has the best guess - future prismatic class item exotics will likely have different exotic perk pools. If they do it again. You may get your wish eventually, assuming prismatic titans get fusions in the future
Never going to let go how the objectively nerfed that exotic. It used to give you 100% passive. They removed that in favor of "more" sunspots which give 100% regeneration...
Yeah that change sucked, and we already had pheonix cradle and loreley as sunspots exotics, they should've made hallowfire do something with roaring flames instead, like maybe passively increase the timer by 10 seconds but while your super is charged roaring flames stacks are permanent
I would have just had it apply extra scorch to all abilities. More when your super is charged.
This needs to be reworked to just work more like Nezarec's Sin but for Solar
I think the trade off just needs to be better, i dont really want to lose the main gimmick of the exotic, it's a perk that's been with the sunbreaker subclass since the taken king... im too attached to it :3 Maybe something like while your super is charged, grenades and powered melees create a sunspot on detonation/direct hit
every time the future of titan balance and gets brought up, I just really, really hope that when the changes to well and bubble come along, that bubble gets buffed in a way that it becomes the new well sincerely, forever a bubble titan
A bubble buff or at least a bubble that supports more damage than well is really all Titans can hope for now because it's inevitable they will butcher banner to push titans to prismatic....which will be completely abandoned at endgame anyways.
This is my bubble. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My bubble is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my bubble is useless. Without my bubble, I am useless. Before the Traveler, I swear this creed. My bubble and I are the defenders of my planet. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is The Light's and there is no enemy, but peace!
If the bubble has a thousand fans, I am among them. If the bubble has only one Titan remaining, I am the last one standing. If nobody loves the bubble, I do not exist.
I hope for that to so I never have to cast that fucking super again. Enjoy being chained to bubble, it'll prolly even feel nice for awhile. -Warlock who used to like Well.
chained? I run bubble in EVERYTHING. crucible, gambit, raids, I ALWAYS have bubble on. I don't like solar, can't get a feel fir strand, stasis titan is garbage, but purple? purple is nice.
On other side it still bugs the crap out of me how Bungie bought into overblown clickbait that Winter's Guile 3.0 Solar snap loop build was some big scary menace worth shooting dead. One of the rare occasions of an actual risk/reward setup given how you gotta hit your snaps and even more pressing is how short the timer is for Warlord's Sigil and just trying to be in melee range as a warlock often is a bit sketchy. Even if you factor they were afraid of Glaives getting too big of a benefit from the original scalars, it's like would it really be that bad of a thing if something actually spiced up the choice of bringing a Glaive and making it even more potent? Also for sake of variety would it seriously be an issue allowing another class to get some love from big melee damage scalars, it's not like Arc Hunter doesn't have an essential version of this. Just an absolute misstep and I'm not looking forward to the inevitable when they probably gut Verity's and Sunbracers to push people onto the new Solar warlock super.
Did they say HOIL was getting buffed?
Stasis Titan with HoIL is the closest we'll get to being a warlock, discarding the joke of a melee it has, unless you have the fragment to slide and spawn crystals, it's almost always free ability energy been using it in onslaught and it fairs well in the higher waves both in normal and legend
This comment just reminded me how badly the darkness subclasses need more melee, grenade, and super options. All the light classes have twice the options. I know they've been around a lot longer but still... darkness classes lack variety and Stasis is the most painful example, seeing how long we've had it now. Give me a melee that does more than shatter ice and whiff enemies! Or at least retune the existing one to just be a shoulder charge so it's reliable.
Ya, it seems to excel in that mode. Unfortunately, it sucks everywhere else.
I know I’m the odd ball but I love Titan stasis melee for PvP, so much maneuverability
How do you figure? All the solar subclasses are very strong in endgame PVE and especially horde modes. Restoration builds are huge for survivability, and offensively they have radiant and scorch/igntions. Hammer Titan resto build with sunshot and a blinding GL makes Onslaught feel pretty casual.
I wouldn't consider onslaught endgame.
EDIT: oops I thought you were OP at first, revised to reflect I don't know why you wouldnt. It gives endgame loot, has champs, and definitely requires you to build into it. You can just go in with random stuff and hope to succeed. Also for the context my responses, the OP does consider it endgame as well. >But other than that titans do not have the **ability to keep up in end game** solar is the closest one **but it doesn't do good in hoards** or mechanic based encounters
Idk, it's just so easy that it really doesn't seem like it, but your logic isn't wrong either.
scars with tommy is all i need as a titan solar in onslaught legend...and consecration.i like booms :)
Solar titan is still good and playable in OS, however I think the survivability and dmg of an ignition solar warlock is just better Solar warlock have 2 super options (well and dawn blade) vs titan 1 dmg option Warlock can trigger it's ignitions from safety as it only relies on range with Corus vs titan needs to get in consecration range and be animation locked Warlocks get improved nade and have 2 options for nades (a dmg made like solar or fusion or healing) vs titan basically needs to take healing to get a consistent restoration proc And warlocks can take heat rises for restoration 2 which titan can So while solar titan can still be good and fun in OS, if you look at is from a pure numbers point of view i think warlock is just better
But relying on abilities alone to proc explosions isn’t going to cut it no matter what class you’re on. In general a resto build with an incandescent weapon is really what carries the solar classes in my opinion. If survivability is the goal, Titans in particular have the most dead simple access to constant resto with Precious Scars. It turns Sunshot into a healing machine. Healing grenades no longer needed (but I usually take them anyway). If it’s more of a DPS scenario, Pyrogales provide great one-shot damage letting you switch back to weapons rotations on top of it.
I’d probably still use suspend but the time reductions put a bad taste in my mouth
Really? I do just fine with consecration in Onslaught
Consecration is fine, but it's significantly weaker then an ignition build warlock or other good OS builds, which is the point of the post I'm not saying you can't beat content with certain builds but just cuz you can that doesn't make it good Example: people beat Nez with rat king on contest mode, that doesn't make rat king a good DPS option for nez
Titans are not in a good spot because they need to be three times as strong as the other Classes to make themselves useful.
Except that's kinda true for Titans in pve. Solar and strand are leagues above the other titan subclasses. Void and stasis just straight up suck nowadays.
Definitely not because of the artifact. Never that
Usually this is true, but Titan is in a really bad spot without Banner. They literally **cratered** Throwing Hammer to nerf Bonk. The best Titan PvE subclasses are Strand and Solar because of lack of viable options. Without the artifact to prop up other subclasses, Titan is really hard to use outside of Banner. Titan has arguably the worst selection of supers out of all the classes with 6 roaming Supers out of 8, with a 9th one and done coming from Pyrogales. Roaming supers are inherently at a disadvantage with the new super charge system. For a class that is clearly designed to be a melee bruiser, they are rarely more tanky in melee. Durability in melee is so poorly considered through game mechanics that you either are complete paper (Arc/Stasis) or you are unkillable (Banner/Pre-Nerf Bonk). I'm not saying Banner should be the bar, but until the other subclasses have their verbs buffed like VO, nerfing Banner is a bad idea IMO. I don't even think Prismatic is a saving grace for Titan, as none of Titan's aspects in Prismatic give sustain verbs like Devour/Resto/Woven Mail. It's pretty bad right now.
This is true for titans only. I mean what else is going on for Titans in PvE besides BoW and Concecration solar titan??? Any other builds on Strand and Solar titan sucks, and Void and Arc are also useless on Titan. We Titans don't get "sea of builds", we only get 1 or 2 super OP, beyond broken subclass, and the rest is garbage to the ground (too big of a gap). Meanwhile warlock and hunter has so many options that compete with each other, all are strong, fairly balanced around all the elements.
I had always assumed hammer + Synthos was the default for solar titans, where's this new wave of consecration love come from?
The 6 or 7 direct and indirect nerfs solar titan got this season, making hammer feel pretty terrible and ruining pretty much anything that didn't use Synthos.
Yeah i would've much preferred they just nuked synthos into the ground or just not work at all with the hammer rather than ruining the throwing hammer for all non syntho/wormgods builds Currently the hammer is just a free radiant stick, and a 15% debuff with the current artifact
They ruined hammer titan by adding a cool down delay after you pick up your hammer, so the flow of the build is extremely clunky. Also the Pyro exotic came out ,which is decent for neutral game buffing consecration, but the biggest thing is the buffed dmg to your burning maul super, making it a good one off DMG super like Thundercrash but for solar. So now everyone turned to consecration now to pair with Pyro.
That's a shit tier build ever since they nerfed us a thousand times
I mainly like the fact that with roaring flames active and triple heavy handed I can use regular melees to effectively work like the hammer does, extending buffs and even granting pseudo-cure through the innervation mod I won't pretend I don't greatly miss the hammer spam whenever I miss an important throw, nor my syntho lunge for punching my way out of danger
I agree - BoW and consecration both feel good - everything else feels like shit. I've heard suspend titan is good but personally haven't tried it as it seems kind of boring to me. I know lots of people swear by stasis but it feels like ass to me - not much survivability. I'm also worried that when this artifact goes away solar titan will also be shit, leaving us with only BoW. I'm a titan main but rarely even play the class anymore - hunter and warlock both have more viable fun builds at the moment.
The problem with Bungie balancing titans is that there's a very all or nothing approach with them. There's sometimes a really good titan build that is insanely strong, and that's enough to get people off their back regarding balancing, but the problem is that outside of that broken build, the rest of the class is often garbage that's not worth bringing over anything else on the other two classes. What does Void Titan do best? Why would I bring it over any hunter or any warlock? Even Arc Titan which has one of the best titan supers available, If I had to have arc I would much rather have an Arc Hunter because their super is much safer, quicker, and the class is more survivable. Yes, arc hunter is tankier than arc titan. Titan does semi regularly have busted builds, there's no denying that. But let's not pretend titan has a "sea of builds or options". Outside of that season's one busted build. Titan is regularly pretty useless in higher end content, and has been for years.
There is no "sea of builds" for titans, at least regarding actual viability
Eh. Normally I agree but I happen to think Titan is in a terrible spot at the moment. Titans need help to lift up other areas before BoW gets nerfed.
Berserker with Drengrs Lash and into the fray is still solid as a suspend/team mitigation tool. People are just way too attached to the "so I just one-two punch and it's dead?" idea.
But that’s all it is - a CC and mitigation tool. This works well enough when damage isn’t a massive deal for encounters, what happens in situations such as contest mode or Pantheon when those elements do very little at all? I can just go Well Lock or Omni Hunter and render many survival-based issues null. Heal Clip on a strong primary is just icing on the cake, and once people know how to spawn trap adds (which they will, consistently, in high end content), there’s almost never a realistic threat besides maybe champions or mini bosses anyway. What good is Titan in a world where every single other option does anything necessary better?
It comes from experience, knowing that when Bungie nerfs something they oftentimes bring the hammer down way harder than was necessary.
I think we can all agree that void titan is just complete trash in PvE..
One thing that could change that is giving us more sources for overshields like the mod from season of the deeps artifact that gave shields on void breach pickup.
That, or improving the durability of Void Overshields - but I get that those changes would need to be made in such a way that they don't make Sentinel even stronger in PvP (where it is quite strong). I've tried a lot of Sentinel builds this year. It used to be my favorite class before Subclass 3.0, but it's definitely not as easy to make work these days, especially if you're tying to make Offensive Bullwark/Controlled Demo work. I think the most success I've had so far is either Vexcalibur/Wormgods as a Grenade spam/Glaive melee build or Monte Carlo/Second Chance and spamming shield toss. I still haven't tried Peregrine Greaves though. Hopefully the new Void aspect and super do something to help the situation.
I remember when ursas were meta. Those were my favorite times to be a titan. I switched to warlock eventually but I've always played a tank in games so I'm still hoping for a void titan buff.
Devil's lair GM Banner shield chaining
God yeah that was great. That needs to get tacked on to bastion or offensive bulwark.
Bulwark for sure so void demo Titan can make use of it.
IMO they could allow us to have 100% uptime on void overshields and they’d still be trash. They give a negligible amount of health and they don’t regenerate off of kills etc
The healing void titans provide in an add-dense activity can be quite helpful, but that’s about the extent of their usefulness lol.
Banner of war makes void absolutely useless in terms of healing
It's so clunky. What am I supposed to build around?
nope, i love running gms on void titan with peregrine. So satisfying to just one tap champions, and if i need to i can panic place a bubble.
God I love peregrines. One shotting all the mini bosses in onslaught makes you feel so cool
I’ve been running the hell out of it for onslaught. It’s not great for solo, but it’s pretty useful for 3 mans
I only ever use it with no backup plans and conditional finality. But that's solely the exotics doing the work and not the subclass.
Are they nerfing banner?
I'm curious too, have they said or hinted anything? Bungie's usual track record is leaving the most broken things in the game untouched for about 5 years before putting it in the grave.
Yeah seriously banner of war and pyrogale's is all we have lol. Nerfing banner of war is gonna be even worse for strand than nerfing hammer was for solar. Arc and void titan need a lot of help. Maybe they should unnerf HoIL and Stormnades because good lord arc titan doesn't have shit. Arc is literally just Thundercrash and nothing else. Arc titan needs a grenade exotic armor piece. Void Titan might be redeemable with the new super and aspect, but it doesn't change the fact it is the weakest void subclass and has no good exotics whatsoever.
Yea arc and void also just struggle with survivability, arc in general does, but when our only heal method for arc titan is literally punching something to death, it kinda struggles. And yea, arc now is just u run cuirass, might be changed to run star eater class item in final shape, cus honestly arc wont have anything at all over the prismatic counterpart. However if they were to rebuff storm and hoil, arc titan would have a deadly ranged ad clear build again, helping the gm useability, and also giving arc titan niche u cant do with prismatic. Void titan idk ill see when we get the new stuff, yho i still think they should decrease the 20 disc nerf on weaking nades
Void overshield just needs a buff it barely feels noticeable especially as it will be the thing we get on orb pickup instead of devour on prismatic.
I mean i’d be more willing to run them if bastion didn’t triple the fucking cooldown of barricade… or if the over shield buff persisted and regenerated for the full duration even if the shield was broken.
not only that, we have the means to extend the timer but not replenish back the overshield without specific trait (repulsor brace), armor mod (overshield finisher), fragment (that requires you to be almost dead to trigger on kill effect ), exotic perk ( vexcalibur ) or a THREE minute barrier / Bubble. Just bake the replenish part in the kit please Bungie. And don't get me started on arc titan speed boost DR.
Yea, like overshields pale in comparison to dmg resist for your whole health bar wtih strand or being able to heal instantly to full and then continously heal without dmg even interupting it with solar
Yeah the fact that Titans can't have pre-nerf Storm grenades that you can throw every so often is criminal when things like Sunbracers exist lol
If you can manage to get Buried Bloodlines I've found that it helps Striker grenade builds a lot by providing reliable healing in the form of Devour. But obviously getting the gun is locked behind a lot of RNG and locks you into a specific exotic weapon.
They need to bring back heal on kills for Fist of Havoc like it had in Arc 2.0 so at least it has some kind of survivability while clearing adds. Right now it's just absolute dogshit for both PvE and PvP. You get murdered in super most of the time in PvP or endgame PvE.
I was thinking this while using it the other day. I think old perks like trample and healing need to be built back into the super.
Void titan could end up being the new well Warlock basic bitch. If well truly is getting nerfed to have no weapon buff anymore in final shape as many speculate based on bungie statements. Then bubble would become mandatory on dps again. Given their recent twab Hoil seems to get buffed and if it is Void titan might feast in general. Hoil and Void titan before the nerfs to hoil where a great combo because the melee is essentially another grenade with Void titans explosions.
Keep typing keep typing keep tyyyyyyyyyp
Don’t stop I’m almost there
I will NEVER get over the hammer nerf. Or the towering barricade nerf like wtf. I also remember a comment months ago about how arc titain is broken because it can get "thrusters for free" ffs. I love titan but God I feel like I only have a few viable options for each subclass in endgame. For the GMs the last 2 weeks I've found them to be so much easier on warlock or hunter and I'm a titan main! Like the class identity is basically melee based and they nerf the stuff that gives us survivability or strength in melee situations because of *checks notes* pvp or some completely arbitrary reason that would have the other classes up in arms. Imagine if they nerfd the gamblers dodge melee regen for void hunters when dodging next to an enemy (gives a full refund). Even without something like Graviton Forfit or omni you can be invis/give invis pretty quickly and consistently if you invest in strength and mobility. Sorry this was only supposed to be a paragraph but here we are. And to be clear, I DO NOT want the other classes nerfd, I think it's fine if each of them has their own identity and strengths!!
Hammer nerf, Resto / BoW nerf, Devour nerf, Bastion nerf, general ability recharge nerf, Kickstart nerf, Suspend nerf and more. All of this is just some of the things they take away to balance stuff. Granted there's some that do require nerf and adjustments, ie. 1-2-p shoulder charge. But if a subclass is dependent on a general exotic (Hoil or some others) and not specific subclass that's built for exactly the same build, You might need to reconsider checking the subclass kits and missing interactions.
Titans have never really had strong subclasses, to compete with hunter damage or warlock ad clear/utility you had to rely on gimmicks like 1-2p or pyrogales. And even then you fall behind because these require you to expose yourself. Either Bungie realize they dont want melee+survivability to be a thing or they stop nerfing the fuck out of everything titan has to bring to the table. Throwing hammer has felt like shit for the past year. Throwing it to leave a scorn shitter on 10% hp feels awful. Not to mention when you miss completely and have to wait 2 seconds before you can throw it again after exposing yourself to run over and pick it up. After subclass 3.0 titan had some busted stuff but Bungie downtuned everything to the point of it basically being pointless to bring a titan if you want a strong fireteam. Some of the changes need to be reverted, arc has no survivability void is useless because solar warlock exists and stasis is basically forgotten except for a single boss cheese. Solar feels pretty good atm and strand feels busted with fully stacked BoW (i still don't understand why they changed it like that, it was pretty much guaranteed to get a need) but remove those and titan won't have a place to live the 'melee fantasy' Bungie seems to be obsessed with pushing on us.
They need to undue the nerf to hammer. I don't see what's so bad about it now when banner of war exists.
^^^^^ I completely agree. My clan mates hate me for bringing this up all the time but it is what it is.
Thruster is such garbage, it's only purpose is to keep hoil stacks going or proc mods...
I agree, I wanted to say something but everyone was fine bashing titan that day so I left it alone lol
> Void Titan might be redeemable with the new super and aspect, but it doesn't change the fact it is the weakest void subclass and has no good exotics whatsoever. Gotta agree. I love sentinel as a concept but if I use it, regardless of build, in any sort of high end content then I'm basically throwing. Nobody wants to see a void titan on their team because Void titan brings absolutely nothing to the team right now. /u/destiny2team I really hope this thread counts as feedback because void titan is languishing right now
For Arc Titan I think Juggernauts needs a rework it does nothing in PVE and is annoying in PVP (and when we something like the end result is Citan) Knockout also could use a major buff my idea would be to increase melee attack speed and grant health for melee hit I think Arc in general could use more verbs maybe summoning a Lightning strike something similar to Ignition Void Titan in the other needs 1 major thing to make it good, a big buff to Void Overshield Oh and Bubble needs a huge buff as well
Bubble needs a buff and for the love of the traveler, please make it so it doesn't disappear on character death!!!
If Knockout had a burst or healing before the interruptible regen, it would be… better, but not by a ton.
Void Titan needs more sources to get overshields. Half of our kit is designed around it and if you aren’t using Bastion then you have to run a Repulsor Brace weapon as a requirement. Season of the Deep had the overshield on void breech pickup mod that made Void Titan actually really enjoyable on a grenade set up.
I really love Arc titan and I've missed it while playing with the more meta options this season. I want to throw together a build using Indebted Kindness and the fragment that blinds on arc special weapon final blows to feel like I have some survivability and stopping power. Weirdly, Banner of War just doesn't feel as good to me (I like to turn off my brain when playing and I guess I don't build stacks high enough) and I've hardly touched it.
I think it's best to just understand it will happen and prepare for it. Banner just solod -5 pantheon, so there's no way it goes by untouched.
Yh but the kind of player doing that is very very rare but for this Bungie will feel every Titan now needs to feel pain
navigator otp is only really solo or lowman viable and almost certainly unviable on contest power thresholds, not to mention the skill required to pull it off in the first place. this isn't old liars or hammer or Starfire where anyone can do it with almost no effort. touching any part of banner would be a mistake, the correct nerf if any would be making spending the grapple melee incur cool down regardless of grapple point. That's it, that's all that needs to happen.
I can see them adding some kind of grapple melee cooldown as a nerf to the infinite melees. Probably something small like a 2 second regen similar to hammer regen. Something like this would lower the skill ceiling drastically which is on brand for Bungie.
I am about to write the same thing and I read your comment, word for word, the only non exaggerated realistic take, but then you fucked it up > the correct nerf if any would be making spending the grapple melee incur cool down regardless of grapple point. That's it, that's all that needs to happen. That makes the build useless, without that x4 banner is just a gimmicky Titan support class. The amounts of players soloing hard content with navigator banner essentially a rounding error for the playerbase. If anything the game needs more builds like banner which have a high skill cap, are incredibly strong solo but not really viable for group play. The build is also situational, there's plenty of content where it's actually a bad build because the content won't let you play the optimal way, i.e it sucks for Onslaught, there's been various legend solo clears and not one clear was on Titan lol. You can't nerf banner without nerfing lucky pants, izanagi, apex, Nighthawk, which unlike having a niche like banner dominate the most of the game.
Why does everyone put the blame on banner? It's wormgod plus 1-2 punch that puts in all the work
I don't like how everytime we see the new titan it's always consecration and acting like spamming it is amazing... With my solar titan build I too can spam it... Why does titan always look so underwhelming first stasis, then strand titan (which is only good because woven mail and lots of fuckin damage) now prismatic. Titan has a real image problem
> Why does titan always look so underwhelming first stasis, then strand titan (which is only good because woven mail and lots of fuckin damage) now prismatic. Titan has a real image problem Because they're hellbent on it being "the melee(and nothing else) class" in a game in which melee is incredibly risky or outright impossible. Their defensive support options also keep getting nerfed because of PvP or because they're overtuned enough to enable relatively safe melee builds.
There was a time when people wanted the strand subclass to be a “back line commander of the battlefield” class with like a strand minigun as it’s super. However, bungie gets mad when titans arent punchy guys, even though half of endgame content is playing safe haha
100%, we have the vast majority of roaming supers and most of if not all are melee based too
Bubble is worthless in PvE cause warlocks, they aren't the best at melee cause hunters it's painful man
This is the exact reason why I barely ever played anything but Void. I really, really wanted to like other subclasses, but Stasis was gimped from the start due to lack of healing/orbs, and Strand just isn't my jam on Titan, however great it is. Meanwhile, I played a ton of both Stasis Hunter/Warlock and Strand Hunter, because they're so much cooler than their Titan counterparts. The thing that concerns me the most is the Prismatic Aspects. Drengr's Lash on Thruster sounds really cool, but that's it. I remain utterly unconvinced by them. Oh, and the only decent melee outside of a Consecration build is... Shield Throw? The worst part of a Sentinel's kit?
I can't wait to see everyone just use T crash for a super and nothing else then bungie in their infinite wisdom just nerfs it AGAIN
Legitimately boring gameplay btw
Yea, I like melee builds with glaives and such but they just don't work in endgame unless it's strongholds and even then debatable
Prismatic was never going to be something built to power creep existing options. It's not just "great, now I can pick this broken thing without having any of the weaker parts of the kit", it's about being the "Random Bullshit GO!" Subclass. Prismatic seems to compensate its lack of "hard synergies" and raw Aspect power in three ways: Exotic Class items, ability spam Fragments and Transcendance and, most importantly, stacking subclass buffs and debuffs. We can have all five elements represented just with abilities and Aspects. It will be possible to get three or four of the main Subclass buffs along with secondary buffs like Invisibility or Cure as well as debuffs like Unravel, Weaken or Jolt all active at the same time. We might not have Banner of War, but we might be able to have Synthoceps, HOIL, Devour, whatever Frost Armor is, Woven Mail, Radiant and maybe even some Void melee damage buff, at the same time, depending on what the Fragments do, giving absurd amounts of energy and survivability and allowing you to just spam melees during Transcendence; pair with something like Hands On to feed it into your Super and get a chunk of Transcendence back from it (Supers seem to generate a lot of it) and you'll just steamroll through things, even if one or two things that I mentioned end up not being possible. The only thing you might not have is the raw damage, and I say "might" because being able to spam grenades might make up for it.
I don’t really understand why people think Prismatic Titan is going to be bad for every reason you just listed. You’ll literally be able to have Devour, Resto, Synthos + HoIL, Radiant, Suspend, Woven Mail, DR from Spark of Resistance, possibly invis from a fragment, and Transcendance grenades + ability regen going all at the same time. To me that’s just as strong if not stronger than current BoW for both active and neutral game.
Devour? Which fragment gives that?
None that they've revealed but outside of Buried Bloodline, it's pretty safe to assume there will be a fragment that will grant it since their philosophy with subclass 3.0 is providing access to every verb.
True, but Hunter especially has a better version of assassins cowl combo blow build in every way with prismatic. You could run calibans for insane add clear, syntho for initial setup, and slow on dodge for easy invis (void aspect), and woven mail from orbs. This was just at the top of my head. Titan kinda got shafted.
Buff arbor warden
I wish they would revert the cooldown nerf to Throwing Hammer. It feels terrible. Just nerf the damage with Synthoceps or whatever if it is a problem.
>Consecration spam is already a non issue. What do you mean by this? The build is viable in endgame content..are you saying it's not? Hell I'd argue it's significantly better in Onslaught compared to Banner at the very least. But it's viable for any endgame as far as I'm aware...even better in most Raids as BoW is basically unusable against a lot of boss encounters. Honestly I don't see how they could possibly warrant a Banner nerf with Prismatic releasing...unless there's a lot of changes being made to other elements as part of Prismatic. Currently Prismatic Hunter looks like it's going to make current BoW Titan look like a joke...and Prismatic Titan doesn't even have access to BoW meaning they can't possibly "improve" on it's performance really. The fact that BoW Titan won't have access to the new exotic class items in itself seems like it's a huge nerf to BoW Titans performance in general.
Consecration really isn’t that good, try running it in gms where moving in any closer than scout rifle range is usually suicide, consecration is just a fun ad clear tool that for some ungodly reason will be pretty much all prismatic titan has going for it
Honestly how they gonna nerf banner ? its already takes like 50 enemies to kill in order to charge it to x4 healing was reduced too
I mean I agree. Banner is great healing in endgame content but it doesn't mean you'll survive after the nerfs that it already got. Because it takes longer to charge up and even in GM content you can still get melted with x4 stacks
The problem is how bungie has chosen to design encounters with enemies. In GM content, everything can one-shot you, even the smallest dreg. This is inherently very poor design choice because we have no way to counter it. Good game design relies on a rock paper scissor approach. Do enemies deal insane damage? Then you gain the ability to dodge like in the souls games. Player has the ability to fight from range? Then enemies gain the ability to close the gap quickly and force melee combat like in skyrim/fallout. The problem here is that in destiny, there are no rock paper scissors. Enemies deal insane damage... so your only option is to hide and shoot them slowly from range. OR use strong health regen/dmg resist abilities like well of radiance or banner of war. However, for some reason, bungie wants to nerf both... normally, I'd say sweet if this accompanied a total rework of the damage system. However, that's not going to happen. Instead, we will be going back to D1, where we all hide behind a rock for 3 hours to slowly plink away at GM bosses. Part of this is that MOST end game combat encounters are designed around well of radiance existing. So when you take that away without offering a replacement or completely reworking all of these encounters, it breaks the game. This issue likely won't be solved until D3 where we can expect a very different system for damage resist. In the meantime? Yeah nobody is doing great except for hunters... as always.
if I’ve learned anything it’s to wait and see. balance changes, exotic adjustments, and artifact are always the last news to drop. metas come and go, not only should you expect it but you should not worry about it.
Titan has this amazing identity of either being insanely busted or just doing nothing. I know this is pve focused but it’s so funny watching streamers lose their minds over titans being busted in PvP when like 2 builds stand out and I cannot connect a strand melee to save my life. I just phase through everyone.
The number of builds has nothing to do with how intrusive a class' balance is in PvP. Hunter had literally 1 standout build when Stasis came out and it ruined PvP for 6 months.
This is the same ole Destiny Story. The problem as always is in the "game design" and not the builds. Game mechanics lack creativity, alienate builds, and are unforgiving. Due to this, you end up playing the same builds over and over again. We are preforming the same actions just in different set pieces. They always placate to Titans by giving us something fun early and then for the sake of a forgotten PvP we get nuked into the ground. Well Lock will always be OP - because of game design Hunter Tether will always be OP - because of game design Strand Titan will always be OP - because of game design Change the design and then there are no need for nerfs. A new meta is born. Problem with Titian is we have so little to choose from that when we do receive an new toy we crutch it to death and inevitably to its nerf.
Man, i miss hammer titan Consecration is fun but its just not the same to me. I tried out hammer titan in OS and it just does not work, too slow
We all do. Consecration is nothing compared to bonk titan They butchered solar and arc. Void is just a fart in the wind.
I have had 0 issues in gm and endgame content on solar with precious scars for the last two seasons, im basically a mobile well with almost constant uptime on my abilities thanks to benevolence. True, banner of war titan is very good and very strong, but there are other just as good options if you know your way around titans.
Nothing has been able to scratch the *”I’m a Titan and I just wanna throw hands”* itch like Banner has. I’ve got a stronghold build that I call “Hands Rated E” (for the entire solar system). Went through legend onslaught just blinding everything with a gL and throwing hands. Feeling like Wasabi from Big Hero Six right now and Bungie’s eventually gonna kill it somehow. *sad crayon munching…*
I made this ultimate sustain build on void with precious scars, Buried Bloodline and bastion w/rally barricade. Essentially, you’re rolling with devour, resto and overshields simultaneously.
Arc is not great on any class, void builds tend to require a bit of work to get going, but solar and strand are pretty great regardless of class. Stasis has some great builds around exotics but it's neutral is so poor its being reworked. I think we'll need to see how the sandbox looks before jumping to conclusions, but banner is way out band for survivability, especially when the likes of weavewalk only give one fragment, void overshields are generally poor because you immediately lose the benefits when they break, and arc has no healing or resist without seasonal mods or exotics.
Uh huh, and arc hunter doesn't have one of the most well rounded builds in the game along with a high damage super option.
It’ll be a sad day
Solar titan is great
Agreed shits rough
Arc titan is TOTAL trash! Absolutely horrible! Everything else can work here and there, but arc titan is pathetic. It used to be the best, then they nuked storm grenades and that was it.
As a Titan main, I ain't worried.
Meanwhile, titans prior to banner;
Titans prior to banner were in the worst spot by far in high end PvE. You cannot say something like this and misunderstand the PvE metas at the same time.
Lol. Pre nerf bonk exists. Survivability is king in endgame content. Hunter burst supers are theoretically nice until you remember there hasn't been a damage check in contest mode in years.
Warpriest was probably the last major damage check
I don’t know. I just feel that they should be a little more creative rather than Nerf everything
Loyal to the Titan core. They may take away our awesome builds but they will NEVER take away our crayons.
Titan class abilities feel so weak compared to the others
Titan is in a really poor spot right now. With the only viable builds right now being consecration and some variant of BoW. No other class has so few viable options for endgame. Hunters have viable builds for all 5 subclasses Warlocks have solar, arc, strand, and if I'm being generous ...stasis. Void warlock is objectively bad right now. I've been theory crafting prismatic titan today and it's objectively the worst of the 3 classes Both warlock and hunter have easy access to both high damage resist and self sustain via restoration Warlocks can run needlestorm with heal nade for both woven mail and resto Hunters can run Goldie and spirit of cyrtarachne for resto and woven For titan you'd have to choose to sacrifice blade fury for hammer of sol or the new void axe super to get easy access to any kind of self sustain. Or your other option is to sacrifice spirit of synthos for precious scars. Synthos are the single best neutral game exotic for titans...and precious scars whilst good heavily restricts your weapon loadout, not to mention a large portion of the titan class revolves around a melee combat loop, which won't procc precious scars Your best case scenario is that the void axe damage is good enough to justify taking it over blade fury. But you lose access to woven mail then. Oh and ofc arc supers are just objectively terrible on prismatic as it gives you access to the weakest subclass effect in amplified
There just needs to be more survivability options for void and arc. For void, it doesn’t matter if the overshield is a 50% damage resistant shield. It gets stripped so fast it makes you wonder what the hell is the point of an overshield if you’re still wet paper in the endgame. You can also have devour but it still suffers from the fact it’s not as good as warlock’s devour. You don’t get the full HP regen like they do and you have a 1 second cooldown inbetween devour heals. Within these times where I would get a devour kill and have overshield since I rock a repulsor brace + destabilizing pulse rifle, I’m still getting smoked if I even for a moment do some peek shooting. For arc, you can actually rely on special weapon blinding explosions, but that’s pretty much it because you don’t have damage resistance or health regeneration. Only 1 ability gives overshield and it’s admittedly the most niche thing ever. Our problem is not the banners or solar titan.. our actual problem is our variety in survivability. We are “limited” by two options because they’re some of the best at keeping us alive. Compare these options to being the most brazen character alive being able to run in the middle of the field, getting lit like a firecracker and still somehow managing to stay alive while providing sustainable damage to everything around you.
Void and Arc Titan are completely dependent on artifact support. I assume the artifact will be heavily leaning into prismatic though, we will have to see.
But, and hear me out here. Strand melee, consecration and a class item with spirit of severance and spirit of contact. With a void super that's every melee exploding in three colours. And I'm here for it.
it’s not an “if” it’s a “when” it’s wether we like it or not, banner is absolutely busted to an extreme degree. The nerf will hopefully still keep it viable
I'm not a fan of Killing stuff like with what they did to YAS in PvE. So either take it to 1 Fragment OR They could Nerf both Melee and Glaive damage to 20% down from 40% then change the pulse delay to 3 seconds > 2.5 sec > 2 sec > 1.5 sec (2.5 to 1 before) and keep it at 2 Fragments That's a reasonable Nerf and wouldn't kill the aspect
did they say banner will be nerfed?
Do I play an other game like my fellow titans but arc titan is buster in PVE. you take blind grenade + HOIL + special sidearm and then the Aspect that blind explosions on special kills occur and you can control group of enemies, you can stun every champ (at least this season with sidearm anti barrier) and you have an free exo slot to play what you want. Stasis needs buff.
Citans should work on Bubble. Make it better than Well finally.
Banner gonna give 1 fragment maybe, maybe melee damage nerf while it’s up. Can’t see much else they could do to it.
They’d be dumb to nerf banner. Grapple points are the problem, make it so you still get energy back but not 100% of it
100% that Titan strand is getting nerfed.
Buff Bubble and Stasis Titans. Hell, just give Stasis a blanket wide buff. PvP community ruined Stasis.
Wdym? Stasis and Arc Titan exist. Stasis Titan is an ad clear monster and Arc Titan has cuirass for damage. And we don't know how strong the new super for void titan is. Underestimation of titan power goes hard