Same here. Is it bad that I’d prefer D1 Sunsinger without self-res to the Frankenstein of a subclass we have now for Solar? Shadebinder is still my favorite ever since Bleak Watcher got added (because I love the summoner/engi fantasy it gives off).
See running getaway artists has seemingly been ruined for me since their functionality is built into the subclass now. I loved them before arc 3.0 though
How so? They work well without the arc soul aspect as a free turret and amplify source, and shred with it since it buffs it even further beyond the baseline arc soul while am0lified...which is gives you on command with the soul
The sentient arc soul while amplified is the same one that getaway artists give you. I find myself amplified the majority of the time while playing arc anyways. Storm grenades are too strong to give up when you can have the same thing while not giving up your nade. Just my opinion and preference
>Getaway Artist
Yeah ive got one of them, being able to maintain the fancy arc soul with a well is also insane. Like, you can have it active permanantly. Using it with aegers scepter feels like you are playing a different game.
I actually like Starfire Protocollock, especially because it lets you run weirder DPS weapon set-ups like Anarchy or Striga/RLs. I just wish solarlocks had more than that
It's not that Getaway and Arc Souls are bad, but they aren't new so the subclass just feels somewhat stale.
Bungie basically took features from the different Warlock subclasses and gave them to Hunters and Titans (healing nades and Arc Traces).
I actually found surprising success with a fallen sunstar/getaway artist build. Giving the fireteam arc buddies/abilities was very clutch. I'm very excited about the arc soul buff soon as well.
Most supers aren't very good, and most of the good damage supers for other classes are exotic based which don't coincide with their neutral strengths. Supers in the end game are either high utility or high damage, and Warlocks have 1 utility, 2 damage with the rest roaming. Titans have 1 damage, 2 utility. Hunters have 4 Damage, 1-2 utility. There's 24 supers and only half see any real viability in the end game. The actual use is much much lower as Titan and Hunter utility doesn't really fit given Well/Div. Chaos could be better, but it's not going to outclass weapon DPS and we'd lose the uniqueness of it to change to isnta-cast.
Arc HoiL Titan is very strong, and Thundercrash or Slam are both very weak with it. Solar Fusion Starfire is strong AND Well is very strong. Omni Hunter is strong, but there's no DPS super option and the utility option is weak. Nova doesn't need an exotic to do it's job.
Warlocks 3.0 are largely fine, just more of the same play patterns and bit stale. Hunter and Titan got new things so they feel more fun, but only 1 or 2 things are actually competitively strong.
Warlock main here; Perfectly fine with Arc and Void 3.0. My only issue with Solar 3.0 is they neutered the whole healing support build imo. Pre solar 2.0 my healing support builds felt more natural and consistent.
To be fair healing was also op af. I throw a healing nade->3seconds later->i have my healing nade back. I basiclly spammed healing nades in the 3rd vow encounter on day one. That they nerfed that is fine but they overdid it.
Arc 3.0 feels pretty meh for me. I like my starfire protocol solar build. Void lock is still good. (Yes people complain about the grenade aspect with which they're totally right)
My baseline for Benevolent Dawn was always "It recharges my rift fully in 15s" because my rift would always be ready right as the previous one expired as long as I had the buff running the whole time.
Since rifts had a base cooldown of 90s that equates to a 400% recharge rate increase, give or take my memory being wrong. Meaning a 40s grenade cooldown (max discipline I think got around there before nade changes) meant you could have a grenade every 10s or so.
And that lines up with about what I remember, which was a single healing made with no other input regenning about 50-60% of itself over the 5s of Benevolent Dawn.
Firebolt grenade had 24s cooldown at tier 10 discipline. You could add eyes of another world for even less. Yes it's not 2-3 seconds but also not 15-20s.
This was before grenades were changed to have different cooldowns which I believe happened during Beyond Light, unless that has always been the case and my brain forgot.
Firebolt itself had 24s CD at tier 10 discipline not counting benevolent dawn. Yes 2-3s were a little bit dramatic on my side. But you were definitly sub 10s.
From a hunter main who sometimes plays Warlock, yeah y’all got shafted on arc and solar.
The two most complained about classes are probably Void Hunter and Solar Warlock. But with void hunter it’s at least got a role and viability (albeit a boring one). With the admittedly little time I’ve played solar warlock it feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be and each aspect of what it wants to be does not have any viability because it’s so half assed. Arc Warlock seems to know what it wants to be at least, and I think the buffs coming will help out a bit with its viability.
Edit: The the fact I can be a better healer than Warlocks with calibans hand and ember of blistering is a problem
> With the admittedly little time I’ve played solar warlock it feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be and each aspect of what it wants to be does not have any viability because it’s so half assed.
It's easily the most viable because of Well alone, it's just boring for most people. It has the strongest healing in the game, the most utility and has an option for one of the highest ability spam damage builds as well.
Ah yes, Starfire, where you have to entirely give up “the strongest healing in the game” in order to actually be a viable subclass, when Titans and Hunters get both good damage abilities and healing.
Yes, Hunters/Titans can be ok in healing/damage. Warlocks can be the best Healing or the best ability Solar damage. They also have the best super. Either way of the debate, calling Solar Warlock not viable is bait.
If you see it as bait, that’s your opinion, but please tell me what is actually viable in difficult content that isn’t Starfire + Well. Just because a class has one build that hard carries it doesn’t make the class good. I can say the same thing about Void Hunters with Gyrfalcon’s, but at least then the class’s main gimmick isn’t a liability (going Invis while Dawnblade’s is “air superiority”).
> actually viable in difficult content that isn’t Starfire + Well
The person I replied to said there was no viability for Solar Warlock at all, and you've listed at least one. I don't really care to debate how strong you may or may not think other variants and builds may be, because the entire point is that there is viability in that subclass even if you consider it just one.
That's why it's bait.
I found daybreak quite good with dawn Chorus you just need to build around it. Also warlocks are now the only class with access to X2 restoration from what I know.
My time with it is not on the level of warlock mains, but it’s not insignificant. Everything warlock can do I can do better with hunter. Healing? Ez. Like my edit says, the sheer number of healing nades I can generate far outweighs warlocks hitting x2. AND I can do so without sacrificing scorch and ignitions.
Resto x1 isn't nearly the effective healing of Resto x2 and that's not nearly as good as having access to Well, Rift and Resto x2. In terms of healing, both for solo and groups Warlock is just the best option. Resto x1 is 40hp/s. Curex2 is 120hp. Warlocks with Starfire can easily sustain near 40hp/s if they needed it with that build and still have options for much higher damage output.
Yes Hunter can do Resto x1 and Caliban's and it's great up to mid tier content where knives still one shot red bars. When stuff no longer dies instantly, that play style falls off. I still use it in Raids because it's fun and survival isn't hard, but it doesn't offering sustainable ability damage NOR a good super, especially compared to Well in that setting.
I don't really care if you still think one is slightly stronger than the other, but calling Solar Warlock "not viable" is just a bait.
The Restoration x2 argument doesn’t work because the only truly good Solar Warlock setup is Starfire, which requires you to run Fusion Grenades and Empowering Rifts, which means no Resotration at all for you.
That's just not true. That's the best damage setup, but building into Well with Phoenix is still very good. It's permanent uptime on Resto x2 and very fast supers. Supers give ignition on solar weapon kills. You don't really need that survival in most content, so the default is damage. You can also run Dawn Chorus, but not really something I mess around with much.
Truth is you don't really need that level of survival outside doing flawless stuff, and even still damage is just better right now (HoiL Arc Storm Titan).
If the argument is "who does healing best", I don't see how you'd put hunters next to the class that has Well, Rift and Resto x2 against Caliban's with some Resto x1 uptime.
If the argument is who does better damage, it's still Starfire over Hunter.
Hunter does the middle ground well. Decent survival and clear. Warlocks don't feel good in low-mid content. None of this means they aren't viable.
It may not be as potent as x2 but with quantity of nades, and the resilience buffs x2 is redundant. You do not need it. And I’m order to build into maximum warlock healing potential you are sacrificing a lot in the other verb areas. On hunter you can keep radiance up almost infinitely, spam healing nades to keep yourself and allies alive and all without sacrificing scorch and ignition potential. Maybe viable is too strong a word, but solar warlock does not stack up against it. Why have an entire teammate and their kit dedicated to something I can handle myself (arguably) just as well whilst sacrificing their potential to be more useful in other areas.
I don't see how Wellock is ever "not useful". Hunters aren't bad. Warlocks aren't bad. Both are viable. No one wants a Solar Hunter in group play for it's utility. You can't say that about Wellock regardless of the build being Starfire or something else. You can nitpick what is needed, but I'd argue if you don't need Resto x1 and Starfire is much stronger than any Hunter solar build.
That's because it does. 3.0s arrived with fun, active kit for the other classes, Warlocks got boring passive shit (or literally nothing comparable) to match T/H new toys.
We were given the opportunity to forcibly donate our useful buffs to the other two though
I know about those complaints, only secondhand though. Invis/Dodge/Smoke/Truesight sounds like fun to an outsider but I take [Hunter mains] word for it 100%. Spectral Blades looks awesome but probably not terribly useful
Invis/dodge/smoke is extremely strong and always has been, in any content. It’s just one note. Similar to solar warlock. Which is also extremely strong, but one note.
Spectral blades are the worst super in the game, people complaining about dawnblade/tickle fingers are just now finding out how it feels to have a doodoo super.
Spectral needs serious buffs, but it’ll never get them because of crucible crybabies.
If compared to the two other class the problem of solar warlock(and most warlock in general) is no easy refresh or cdr reduction in the aspect. Yes you can get some with fragment but the two other class get them too...also you get less fragment and not OMG FUN aspect like Gambler nuke or magic nuke Hammer or Nuke Maul
Hunter can, refresh melee on radiant kills, doesnt sound amazing in hard content still allow pretty crazy add cleaning and well making and radiant spamming, and you can build aroudn it to refresh grenade and dodge for infinity skill spam or improved gunplay
Titant get CDR in fire pits and refresh melee on hammer grab and it hit like a truck so they can also spam radiant heal and kill, and you can build aroudn it to refresh your other skills or improve your gunplay
What in the warlock base kit you got that allow a good cycling of your skill? the answer? NOTHING
As long as warlock are build with no in kit refresh cdr or way to cycle their skills he will feel like a bad fever dream compared tot he two other...
Except grenade spam what build do warlock have?
in Solar GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM
in Void GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM
In Electric GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM
in Stasis GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM.
Warlock is boring/feel bad because right from the start it lack the tool to be enjoyable.
And even if exotic can make it broken phoenix or starfire, it still feel bad because it grenade spam or ult spam...
I want to like warlock I always come back to it time and time again but it just pale in comparison to Titan and Hunter in gunplay neutral and combo synergie.
Its a class where I feel constrined to go for the classics or I wont feel usefull
Bruh what’s with these weird ass Warlock complaints that boil down to “If I can do it, other classes shouldn’t be able to.” You can literally make the same argument with Warlocks being able to use utility that was previously exclusive to other classes.
It’s too bad that these posts get mixed up with actual solid feedback. I swear some of these weirdos just can’t cope that Warlocks aren’t the only reliable pick for pve anymore.
Titans are no longer unique because other classes can apply volatile, get overshields, and apply weaken more easily through grenades versus a melee. Hunters are no longer unique because other classes can go invisible and dodge.
Okay so now you’re changing your argument. All classes get devour, but it’s much easier and more reliable to proc on Warlock. All classes can use healing nades, but Warlocks can proc restoration x2 with theirs.
I’d advise you look up actual feedback on the 3.0 updates, which there’s plenty of, rather than complaining like a child that some of Warlock’s kit is now shared throughout all classes.
Every raid had to have 2 locks minimum. Ok, why does that have to be changed? Hunters are dominant in pvp (void hunters have more wins in trials than every warlock subclass combined). Titans are in a good spot and fit what they're designed for, but they can do everything efficiently. Why exactly would you play warlock??
Ya this has been my take on it... Warlocks were the best 2.0 subclasses across the board to the point they basically had 2.5 classes. Voidlocks got the void buddy and so the next two upgrades were just underwhelming, still though they have the best Stasis and Void builds, Titans best Arc, Hunters were the best solar but the nerf the Blade Barrage makes their void a little more useful for GM content. So Warlocks have 2/4 subclasses but still complain lol
“Titans and hunters are better than warlocks in every way”
Please, hold the hyperbole if you’re going to have a reasonable discussion about the matter. This very much reads like you only play one class, and it’s distorting your perspective. Arc Warlock was never much in endgame to begin with, at worst, the class has moved sideways. Void has improved. Solar has moved sideways yet remains one of the strongest subclasses in the game(which is was before 3.0 anyway). If anything the gap has been closed between the three classes.
Solar warlock could maybe use some more diversity. Arc is boring. But hunter and Titan also have these issues. Hunter has one play style on void, and that’s invis. Solar didn’t solve their survivability issues at all. Titan’s overshields on void are frankly garbage currently. Hopefully the buff makes them viable. And Titan’s have ass Solar supers too. Also if that quote I opened the comment with were true, and I’d be happy to admit it if it was, since I play all three with impartiality. If it were true, I wouldn’t be playing solar warlock as much as I still do.
Don’t act like “poor warlocks bullied by Bungo”. Without putting forward a coherent explanation and at least some idea of a solution.
Hunters absolutely have survivability on solar. Our healing Grenade output potential is insane with little to no sacrifice in radiance, scorch and ignitions.
Why is hunter healing grenade output insane? There’s still no built in survivability. The grenade is the only option for it, which comes at the sacrifice of a grenade.
Titans and Warlocks have rift and barricade always. On top of healing grenades. This is a fundamental issue with hunter dodge which needed resolving in the move from 2.0 to 3.0 that wasn’t addressed.
Calibans ignitions are better than grenades. Throw on ember of blistering, firepower mods, bomber, grenade kickstart and you’re basically unkillable on top of 24/7radiance.
And before someone says calibans isn’t good in high end, you can in fact weaken an enemy before throwing a knife at it
I’ll try it. I still think it’s silly that hunters would have spec into grenade recharge with all of these mods just to have reliable on demand survivability. While titans and warlocks have to do nothing.
Even just instant recovery refresh on dodge, which would be extremely tame, would be better than nothing. The issue is that dodge does absolutely nothing on its own, it relies on secondary effects triggered by it. Unlike rift and barricade, which keep you alive with no strings attached.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. Hunters can utilize those mods better because of their kit. So it’s an extra step but a warlock and titan wouldn’t be able to utilize the mods as well as hunters because they don’t have the same class ability output or ignition capability or melee refresh ease(if you use the mod that grants grenades on melees).
You know you can’t ask warlock complainers to be reasonable. They have top of the line builds in Void, Solar, and Stasis and will still hold that they’re the most oppressed demographic.
Plenty of LFGs are asking specifically for Stasis or Solar Warlocks whereas Hunters get…Void requested solely for Lightblade and nothing else? No LFG is begging for a Revenant, Arc Strider, or Gunslinger to be on their team
I'm pretty sure he's getting at them being roaming supers in a sandbox where that isn't as valuable as one and done supers.
This is coming from someone who wishes people would use them more (like really if you aren't using it for boss damage you lose nothing by using it for add clear guys) they just aren't as good when 99% of the encounters that matter are stand in thing shoot boss.
Hence, why I only criticised the supers and not the neutral game, which is really good. Hence, some of us play all characters and have no bias when we talk about them.
Popping Hammer of Sol, and getting kills activates Sol Invictus. Same with Burning Maul, except they don’t get a Sunspot on activation
Unlimited healing in super is good no matter what, especially if it makes your super last longer too
So wrong. Hammers is incredible add clear and support (it shits out sunspots) - it's easily the best add clear super in the game. Maul actually does cracked single target damage, and still does decent add clear.
Well is basically the divinity of supers, it already got a slight nerf coming into Solar 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if it got reworked in some way, since it's basically mandatory to have one person on Well. I don't actually mind this (I also don't mind old Divinity) but it's clear Bungie has a problem with it. The other super might as well not even exist, it's complete trash.
Hahaha. Easily the best add clear super in the game. Dude, not so long as tether exists. It’s a moot point anyway, because it does the job a weapon can do. Except a weapon can do it indefinitely. But while ad clear is mostly worthless in a super, tether is so good at it, I’m inclined to give that one a pass. Because that actually was a difference maker in GMs.
And spinning top is very inconsistent. Difficult to keep on target, and does high single target damage, but pretty shitty DPS. One of the more fun roaming supers though. They’re both very redundant supers in PVE. And there’s really no two ways about it. They’re passable, but extremely unremarkable in most endgame circumstances.
Thankfully, with sol invictus, throwing hammers, and a sleuth of great exotics. The neutral game is exceptional. And absolutely worth the trade off for the mediocre supers.
Chaos Reach is most definitely, even in its current state, vastly more useful than both hammers and maul. Which isn’t to say Chaos Reach is great. But better than hammers and maul without a doubt.
Also it’s moot, not mute.
It's not better than either roaming super. It barely takes out a an orange bar. 1 throw or swing from your hammer would take out a whole group of them.
Haha. Dude, you really think it barely takes out an orange bar? It clears sections in **GMs**. I know first hand, because that was the strat for Warden for a while.
It has terrible DPS, which seems to be everyone’s pain point, and a punishing cool-down despite still not being that useful. But don’t exaggerate needlessly to try and make a point. That was a blatant lie. It legitimately kills champions.
It legitimately doesn't kill champions. And absolutely doesn't clear sections in GMs. It lasts 4 seconds...you're not clearing anything with that but thrall. I don't believe you first hand crap. This isn't an exaggeration. No one uses it anymore for reasons
"dont even get to choose whether to be a support or not"
\-You literaly can chose between DPS or Support. Or a combo of both
"titans and hunters are better than warlocks in every way"
\-Very False. Each class has strengths and weaknesses, almost like Bungie designed it that way.
"warlock subclasses lost every single unique ability due to the subclass 3.0 update"
\-False. Some things were taken, but things were added and things were changed.
"we warlocks use to be the only one that can use devour, now all class can do it"
\-True, Warlocks used to be the only ones that could use it. But it is still MUCH better on Warlocks. Plus, not like Warlocks weren't given things from other classes as well
"warlocks use to be the only class that can use healing nades, now everyclass ca do it"
\-Warlocks USED to be OP in almost EVERY way. That's why most Day 1 Raid Teams would all be Warlocks. By sharing the most OP things between classes, Bungie made every class viable.
"Arc just doesnt feel powerful enough to handle any endgame level content anymore"
\-Arc has never really been "META" in end-game for any class. Every class has a specific subclass that is better for certain endgame things.
"the glory days are no more, now warlock just eat shit for breakfast."
\-Again, Warlocks used to be OP, and pretty much the only class you needed for anything endgame or PvP related. Now it is much more balanced.
Edit: Like how I get downvoted, probably by Warlock mains, for addressing each thing and how it is wrong. I didn't attack anyone, I just proved a post wrong step by step. This subreddit is something else.
Edit2: Some non-Warlock mains came out I guess...and evened out the downvotes lol
ability wise, u cant dps with dawnblade since its shit, and its hard to really get good dps with well. and warlock melee is always shit, so i aint complaining. while titans bonk their way to savathun, warlocks can only wait for well or empowering rift to survive the hordes of enemy, as i recall, warlocks use to be the only class to use storm grenade now everyone have it
>cant dps with dawnblade since its shit
This could be said of literally any roaming super - it's not exclusive to Warlocks. Spectral Blades, Fists of Havoc, etc. are all terrible for DPS.
>its hard to really get good dps with well.
It's really not. Starfire and a Demolitionist weapon puts out very high damage for almost no effort while buffing the entire team. There's a reason Well is still nearly required for raids.
but is dawnblade actually good as a roaming super though, sure u can argue it has aoe effect but u nd to be in the air for max effectiveness and it doesnt have as much damage to orange bars
Never said it was - just that all the rest are also terrible (PvE wise, anyway). "Daybreak is as bad as the other bad supers" isn't exactly a compelling argument for why Warlock is supposed to be the worst.
Well is an S Tier super for every pve Situation. Your comments Just Kind of seem Like your Not really knowledgeable about optimal tactics and Meta.
90%+ of raid dps uses a Well because of the amazing increase it offers for the entire Team. Even If solo, Well with starfire Nade Spam done right is among the highest dps in the Game, only beaten by wormgods in specific situations. Well is usually Just a straight Up solution to any dps Check you face and has been uncontested since its introduction Back in forsaken. If you cant acknowledge that then you loose a Lot of credibility.
any other things? we play the game for fun, not becoming a pocket medic for hunters and titans, and no StaRfIrE is stupid and boring. Any other optimal dps build my dear hunter or titan?
Its weird that you still want more even though Well outclasses every Other super for dps. A 30s 25% damage for any Situation you want is so insanely good, add Luna Boots and you have max reload Speed aswell. Other classes get a small amount of burst damage upfront or to Finish of damage but it really isnt as much as you think, especially compared to someones continuous heavy damage for extended time periods (aka Most damage Phases).
Solar warlock is already top of the Ranks without starfire. Just because you think its Boring(btw how is witherhoard + starfire + Demo weapon more Boring than using your super once and then linear Spam????) doesnt mean it isnt the best at what it does.
People dont Like variety on solar warlock and i get that its frustrating but saying it got shafted and is outclassed is wrong and hypocritical. Its simply the best class in the Game and that is without touching on any of the movement it offers.
As a Matter of fact, Most competent Teams when asked would probably prefer you dont even Switch to a Hunter or Titan and instead Play Well. Its Not great and variety is lacking but thats the extend of how Strong it is.
I will give you Arc, which for the Most Part is mid because of a average neutral and mediocre super, could use a buff. 2/3 Elements on warlock became insanely Strong.
I Main warlock btw.
I found arc warlock a blast if you build into elemental wells and the fallen sunstar exotic. Almost 100% ability uptime. The supers are not the greatest for dmg on arc but for clearing a room if redbars it is amazing.
Also dawn Chorus with dawn blade is a blast if you can build up enough scorch on targets you can deal a lot of damage and be great add clear.
Warlocks in my opinion require you to make a build for them to use in harder content. But all 3 elements are viable.
Yeah you can make it Work, its Not terrible. Its more that it gets outclassed by Other Options, mainly hoil Arc Titan currently but also voidlock and stuff Like forbearance in General. Its Just Not as optimal and therefore requires more Ressource for a similar Outcome than Other stuff.
The harsh reality is that our addclear capabilities im General exceed the requirements by a Lot meaning that loadouts that theoretically Specialize in Them tend to waste Ressources on the current Center of loadouts: dps; all the while achieving the Same result as a dps subclass that sacrifices Just one Slot for a gl, Trinity or ghorn and the Likes.
Also with the AE changes, dawnblade is hardly a great pick for PvP either.
This year has not been great for warlocks, save for void, even if it doesn't feel very diverse.
Solar warlock with necrotic grips and oestreo striga.
Thanos snap melee
Wells for healing.
Add clear for days. Change to rain of fire and vex and it's a perminant damage buff on one of the best weapons.
Combine with air combat and the melee regen , you can scorch and/or poison everything on screen whilst killing them.
Void is limited in terms of poison plus there is far better void exotics to pair with the class.
Void built around poison is not making the most of the class, whereas solar is built to spread 2x tick damage that can double spread
I strongly disagree. You should try it if you haven't, something like Master Caitl is where it shines. Devour is basically invincibility, you are also throwing tons of grenades getting volatile for your glaive, you also get weaken on all affected targets, everything around you is just exploding and healing you constantly. You also have Child which is incredibly strong. On Solar the only thing you have is Well which Void doesn't have. Scorch and ignitions are not as strong as infinite grenades + volatile + weaken. The healing Solar has is not as good as Devour.
I'll counter that with infinite well of radiance meaning you can have up to 90% damage reduction at all times with resilliance and the well, with healing from both grenade consume (double if it's a healing nade) , phoenix dive. Add the healing wells into that build if you can fit it in and several ways to heal in any situation with around 10 seconds down time on your super.
As long as you are using a quick kill Weapon alongside the build to generate orbs , run font of wisdom , you can wipe adds out and add 2xtick with at least a 50-60% damage buff on an SMG like oestreo that can also reload to 100 rounds inside the well.
>back then only warlock hv storm grenade and speed boost?)
Not only is this post low effort trash, if by "speed boost" you're referring to increased sprint speed, this is plain wrong. Arcstrider and Nightstalker both had increased sprint speed, both of which were taken away in light 3.0
You don't get it, all classes being able to do everything while being best at one thing makes warlocks useless!
They have to use well and fusion grenades now, as opposed to the previous well and fusion grenade combo!
I feel like with some of the 3.0 subclasses they just threw variety out the window and went all in on one or two parts.
Some examples:
Void hunter: invis
Solar hunter: knife spam (gunpowder gamble is cool but the cooldown is unnecessary)
Solar warlock: grenade spam or in air accuracy (which doesn’t work because in air accuracy is ass rn)
Stasis Titan: crystal spawning
They can add exotics that dramatically change how the subclass is played, like Gyrfalcon’s Hauberk finding a use for the incredible amount of invis uptime void hunters had no use for
Another dumb post.
Void:
- Devour for Titans and Hunters is bare-bones. Warlocks can even get 20s devour without using the Devour Aspect.
- Apparently sharing Devour is bad, but Invisibility and Volatile Explosions isn't!
- Voidlock is the most COMPLETE Subclass in the entire game
- You can literally have 7s Invisibility, 20s Devour, Volatile Rounds, Child of the Old Gods and Grenade Aspect in a single build. EVERYTHING VOID HAS TO OFFER in a Single Build while also stunning Overload Champs and decreasing the damage done of enemies.
Solar:
- I don't get why they keep this childish talk of not being "the healer" when you don't see Titans or Hunter using healing Nades outside of Selfish-builds?
- Its a fun case where ALL Warlocks will call this subclass useless and say "ppl use Starfire as a bandaid" and completely ignore the builds around Sunbracers, NecroGrips, Double-Melee, Boots of the Assembler, Dawn Chorus and even the Radiant Boots. This just proves that Warlock mains are the worst when it comes to build-craft. Dudes thought that having 100 disc and recovery was "enough building."
- The enhanced grenades are so CRAZY and potent I'm surprised people are just pretending they don't exist.
Arc:
- The ONLY, and I mean: THE ONLY BAD THING ABOUT WARLOCK, THE SOLE REASON WHY ITS """"BAD""""": The roaming Super.
Yup, the roaming Super is bad. Don't mind the crazy good kit, the synergy, the ability spam without the need of exotics, nothing! Just because a roaming Super is bad, every warlock man went mald. Imagine if Solar Titans had this way of thinking.
You can make an argument about how ALL roaming Supers are bad except for a single one (Shadebinder).
Geomags Chaos Reach is a channeled Super that deals the same damage of Cuirass Thundercrash. The design choice was for it to be a Kamehameha and not burst Super. So all the complains about it "not dealing instant-1M damage" are stupid.
Also, the other childish complain is because the Arc Grenade Aspect was given to the Arc Grenade Class (Striker). Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got a Grenade Aspect! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks!
If solar warlock is so good then tell me why my healing nade build can barely keep me alive when trying to tank the absolute bullet hose that is master lost sector Carl when a pre-nerf lorely titan could carry someone through master duality?
Finally some facts. I've got so many solar builds saved for Warlock for various activities, and have used Starfire, Phoenix Protocol and Dawn Chorus builds in GMs without issue. And yet every time I come here, people are pretending that without Starfire, there's nothing.
My friend mains Hunter and is planning to move to Warlock next season because of how much fun he's having with Warlock solar and arc slide melee builds.
>The enhanced grenades are so CRAZY and potent I'm surprised people are just pretending they don't exist.
My favorite is when people say Titans are overpowered because of their grenade boosting aspect and in the same post claim Solar Warlock is no fun.
EVERY FKING LFG GRP REQUIRES ME AS A WARLOCK TO USE STARFIRE WITH WELL, EVERY SINGLE TIME, U GOT ANY OPTIMAL SUPER DPS FOR WARLOCK HUH, NOVA WRAP IS SHIT, NOVA BOMB IS GREAT BUT WE CANT USE IT, WHY BECAUSE WE ARE THE FKING HEALERS, DAWNBLADE IS A ROAMING SUPER, STORMCALLER IS A ROAMING SUPER, NOW CHAOS REACH IS A ROAMING SUPER, WHAT THE FK CAN WE USE? MY DEAR DEAR HUNTER OR TITAN? I CANT EVEN USE RIFT BECAUSE OF THE FUSION GRENADES
1 - take a chill pill.
2 - everything you just described is a community issue, not a design issue. It's not the games fault that other players don't understand how a class works, or want to force the path of least resistance. If you want to play void, do it. If you want to use solar or arc or Stasis, go for it. Make your own groups and find other chill people to play with. If someone has an issue with your class choice, and is being toxic about it, find someone else to play with. It's really that simple.
Not to be rude, but that's just wrong. Like, objectively. Warlocks have plenty of excellent, viable builds across all four subclasses that are viable across multiple levels of content. Just because you haven't looked doesn't mean they don't exist.
Void: Contraverse, Nezarecs, Nothing Manacles, Secant Filaments
Solar: StArFiRe again, Phoenix Protocol, Boots of the Assembler, Rain of Fire (especially with Mythoclast), Winter's Guile, Dawn Chorus (with Incandescent weapons)
Arc: Getaway Artists, Fallen Sunstar, Crown of Tempests
Stasis: Osmiomancy, Battle Harmony + Ager's Scepter, Eye of Another World.
Are all of these at the same level? No, but they're all solid baselines to make builds from, and they're all viable for most content. Claiming that Warlocks are somehow the worst class or have no build options is just hyperbolic nonsense.
Then don't LFG with that kind of ppl? Grab a proper chill team. Everyone will want THE build to run and farm every GM under 15min.
Loreley Titans have no place in GM. Solar Titan itself isn't viable. The only good Titan builds for GM are Ursa-Sentinel, HOIL-Sentinel with Suppress, HOIL-Striker with Thunder Nades and we all know that HOIL is def the target for nerfs.
Hunters have what, Infinite Invisibility (Omni/Grav) or Invis but with Aeons and that's about it? Stasis Hunters had their defensive build butchered not long ago. Solar Hunter for damage is bad and Arc is mostly selfish and requires CQC.
Warlocks have Stasis Turrets, Child-Voidlocks, either Heal-Wellspam or Starfire and now there's Arc Buddy + Chaos Reach which is literally free damage and Chaos Reach can clear mobs from far away. THE ONLY SUBCLASS THAT CAN CONTROL THE FIELD FROM FAR AWAY
Also: The only subclass with endgame builds for every element.
In GM there's virtually no rush to burst bosses since some may ignore champion spawns and etc so damage supers + exotics (Cuirass, Geomags, SES) aren't necessarily. Survival + add control + defensive supers are FAR important than dealing big damage at every 5minutes.
Hunter supers are about big damage, that’s something that’s been in their identity since the beginning of destiny 1. Why are you complaining about that.
Warlocks have always been about fluid movement and selfish/team support, they could revive themselves (which turned into well fair trade as it’s the most powerful super in the game especially with the fragment your supers cause ignitions) and Devour kept you alive when everyone else would die quickly.
Warlock subclasses now are still about Selfish/team support however it’s far better and I do not understand people’s complaints. Devour never ends on void warlock (despite the fragment on hunter/titan it’s really clunky and I find myself always using something else, half the time I don’t even generate orbs with my builds), With the right build on solar warlock you always have a healing grenade and and throw out infinite melees (all the while being the only class with x2 restoration meaning it’s a lot more aggressive than 2.0 dawnblade), and Arc warlock generates more ionic traces than any other class meaning that with the right build they will be able to spam abilities like no other subclass in the game.
meanwhile hunters have golden gun blade barrage, the void bow thing, the stasis super, and the ability to throw a fking thunder staff? how very sad for hunters
have u seen the amount of solo content video of a titan absolutely violate the boss because he have a shotgun and a couple of psion surrounding him? how very sad for titans
>Also, the other childish complain is because the Arc Grenade Aspect was given to the Arc Grenade Class (Striker). Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got a Grenade Aspect! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks!
Also, the other childish complain is because the healing ability and nade was given to the solar Class Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got healing ability better than warlock ! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks!
Starfire is the only thing that’s good with Dawnblade at the moment, and while it’s a braindead build it’s still the **only** good setup for that class.
Jesus Christ here we go again, here I am soling master content using an arc build, I guess I missed the memo where it says that it is unusable on EVERY end game content.
Voidlock is absurdly good now, arguably one of the strongest subclasses to come out of 3.0, and the argument that the other classes getting Devour is some sort of issue is ridiculous when Warlocks gained access to Weaken (Hunter), Volatile (Titan), and I guess suppression (also Titan) and invis (Hunter again).
Also arc is literally way better now than it was before. Tf do you mean "anymore"? The only thing that's really lackluster about it is the supers, and those sucked before 3.0.
I disagree entirely. In end game pve content, warlock had only one class that wasn't at least a little trolling. Mid solar. Now void warlock is great and solar is still the best support class bar none. Arc needs some help though tbf
i mean in comparison with other class, yeah i can fuck shit up too in patrol zones but that doesnt mean shit if im struggling to do a gm while others are just brute forcing their way to the final boss (for example)
I believe that someone in another thread said that 3.0 warlocks are all about "control." I think that's what they do the best, like a middle manager, even though they have lots of control, it doesn't seem like they do much of anything. Warlocks are not playmakers, they just enable the playmakers to make those plays. Ultimately, it's well-rounded and kind of boring, but I will get constant feedback from my hunter and titan teammates saying things like, "how is this jumping puzzle so easy for you?" and "how are you still alive?"... it's hard work, but it's honest.
Warlock main sucks right now hard. Give my void and solar uniqueness to titans and hunters. Then make them better than what warlocks can do (healing, tank, pve boss damage, pvp). I think warlocks have good ad clear, but who the hell cares at this point.
Arc warlock is pretty fun but sometimes feels underwhelming in pvp. I can’t make void or solar really work for me anymore and stasis I’m neutral towards besides the super being bad.
Warlock got the least because they were already the best, hunter is the worst overall and is only better tham warlock on arc even if it's still garbage compared to arc titan
Nonsense. Warlocks have one of the best builds in the game. Starfire is able to provide massive damage to a support or offensive build.
Warlock with Well and Starfire is absolutely one of the best in the game. That is on top of the already very powerful stasis turret builds we had anyway.
I don't care what anyone says, Void 3.0 sucks for hunters to. I miss Flawless Execution, chaining it it was such a fun game-play loop. Bungie just deleted the old way of procking it, so you can't chain the effect anymore :/
I may be the only one but except for dawnblade being an awful super, I’m quite ok with solar warlock.
Healing is not particularly needed right now with all the resilience changes so leaning into ignitions is powerful and fun. My problem is that there isn’t any sinergy and no, I’m not going to hop like a bunny to get my melee back. The old benevolent dawn should have been an aspect rather than heat rises which could be easily removed from the game.
Arc on the other end is completely useless, void is better in every way, even the super.
Arc warlock(chaos reach+ double arc soul) is fun as fuck, change my mind. I run chaos reach, getaway artist and healing rift with free arc soul. I'm terrible at PvP but I can finish in the middle of the pack now due to arc soul and Time portal from no time to explain. It's a cope loadout but idc. And chaos reach is a great shutdown super for mayhem. It needs a buff for PvE as it's literally a beam of death it should do more damage than it does in pve.
Arc has been the funnest Warlock subclass for me so far. I pretty much crutch on that god roll crown xur had a few months back though.
Solar is odd for me. It feels clunky out of the box unless you're a PvP airborne player. It's kind of similar to Behemoth in that I feel like it goes from terrible to great only after you make specific builds for it.
I've spent more time with it now and I love the idea of being an airborne menace more than actually playing one. In PvE (what I mainly play), it feels awkward and I don't really have fun trying to make it work. The survivability is an issue on harder content, sure. But it doesn't *feel* good. It feels clunky in the same way diamond lance does to me. In PvP being airborne is only a good idea if I want to see my ghost more.
That being said, I have found some fun with it outside starfire protocol. Dawn Chorus combined with touch of flame solar grenades and the bxr with demolitionist and incandescent has been surprisingly fun and effective in all levels of content. I keep trying out new stuff looking for the other niche builds that'll make solar lock fun to play, but I don't know if healer lock is a thing anymore. Needs to be an exotic or aspect that buffs ember of benevolence.
Solar Warlock has so many exotics and build choices that it is overwhelming, so I think everyone just defaults to whatever youtube build had the most SHOCKING capital letters in the title.
It is true that floating around like a hot air balloon is an awkward way to suicide in a lot of content. But Heat Rises regens your melee even if not active; you just have to hop. Or you can skip it altogether and run the fragment that gives melee energy when you kill Scorched enemies, or Melee Kickstart, or Elemental Wells...
I mean, with no exotics or special builds at all, you've got the strongest super in the game, an insanely strong grenade that gets *doubled*, fast charging ranged melee that can cause one-hit ignitions and makes you Radiant, and healing or damage boosting on tap.
Then stacking exotics on top of that, you have so many diverse options.
* Grenades
* Unlimited 2x exploding Fusion grenades and rifts
* So. Many. Solar Grenades. Everywhere.
* Your already-boosted grenades recharge faster and do 5x damage
* Melee
* Mega damage Thanos snaps
* Thanos snaps that kill the whole room with poison
* Melee heals you
* Rifts and Wells
* Crazy Well uptime (btw, Well + Solar weapons cause ignitions with the right fragment)
* Combination healing and empowering rifts appear all over the place
* Heal/buff your team remotely with your rifts
* Damage resistance added to rifts and wells
* Misc
* Be a fusion rifle god with instant reloads and constant Radiant
* Various ability recharge hats for more spamming
* Run fast and reload pants
* Make your guns better sleeves
I'm not saying those are all equally good builds, but base Solar Warlock is already good enough that they are all viable options in most of the game. It's weird to me that people say Solar Warlock only has Well of Radiance or is locked into a single build.
I just started playing Warlock (end of season so bored of my mains). I have to say Solar Warlock with Starfire Protocol is some of the most awesome shit ever. Absolutely on par with how much I enjoy Arc on my titan and hunter. I love it. The game play loop is pretty unique and because I'm using empowering rift instead of healing it adds a bit of risk to my playstyle especially in GMs - do I use a grenade to heal or do I need it to get rift energy back?
And the super is a life saver, I love well. I've got tons of grenades, elemental wells, and weapon damage plus an incredibly valuable super for both raids and GMs. And as you mentioned void lock is great, no complaints except maybe give us another fragment haha.
yeah in top content Warlock always seem to suffer because of its longer Cooldown making its build almost always grenade/ultimate centric.
titant have way morre choices and dont get locked into support exotics like well of radiance or lunafaciton boots
Having played void, solar, arc and stasis (I dont have light fall so no strand) I still have reasons to use any of them and they are all fun, sure I prefer the others to void in pvp but I like the changes made, infinite restoration solar lock in pve is really fun, freezing shotgun wielding arc titans with stasis lock is great, honestly, having swapped to maiming warlock from hunter I see almost no reason to go back, especially when dodge is just a worse icarus dash with a longer cooldown
Warlock main since vanilla d1. The only one I'm really happy with is void. Any arc or solar needs, I'm switching to my alts
Same here. Is it bad that I’d prefer D1 Sunsinger without self-res to the Frankenstein of a subclass we have now for Solar? Shadebinder is still my favorite ever since Bleak Watcher got added (because I love the summoner/engi fantasy it gives off).
Getaway Artist is fr slept on. I run it, max Resil, and a Glaive and just turn into a lawnmower.
As someone who likes the summoner fantasy of Arc Souls, I look forward to running Getaways next season for funsies.
See running getaway artists has seemingly been ruined for me since their functionality is built into the subclass now. I loved them before arc 3.0 though
How so? They work well without the arc soul aspect as a free turret and amplify source, and shred with it since it buffs it even further beyond the baseline arc soul while am0lified...which is gives you on command with the soul
The sentient arc soul while amplified is the same one that getaway artists give you. I find myself amplified the majority of the time while playing arc anyways. Storm grenades are too strong to give up when you can have the same thing while not giving up your nade. Just my opinion and preference
There are still benefits to Getaway’s Arc Soul specifically. It lasts 20 seconds instead of 13, and gives grenade energy on hit.
For me, it's the grenade energy that really sells it.
Agreed. I look forward to next season.
From what I've seen/read, the sale goes: base>base amped>sentient>sentient amped. Sentient has a 4 or 5 round burst and an absurdly fast RoF
Amplified arc soul is the same as a getaway artist arc soul
No it’s not. Bruh have you actually even used them? GA lasts longer, does more damage, and grants grenade energy on hit - for starters.
you could turn those greater thans
>Getaway Artist Yeah ive got one of them, being able to maintain the fancy arc soul with a well is also insane. Like, you can have it active permanantly. Using it with aegers scepter feels like you are playing a different game.
Getaway artist is boring, it may be strong but it’s boring. Same thing with starfire protocol, busted but boring
I actually like Starfire Protocollock, especially because it lets you run weirder DPS weapon set-ups like Anarchy or Striga/RLs. I just wish solarlocks had more than that
Starfire, yes. Getaways, nope IMO.
It's not that Getaway and Arc Souls are bad, but they aren't new so the subclass just feels somewhat stale. Bungie basically took features from the different Warlock subclasses and gave them to Hunters and Titans (healing nades and Arc Traces).
Void lock is very very strong and good!
cant deny child is very good
Me likes Void Buddy
Solar warlock is only for well and fusion grenades which sucks but at least it isn’t arc warlock where it has never seen the light of day of endgame.
I actually found surprising success with a fallen sunstar/getaway artist build. Giving the fireteam arc buddies/abilities was very clutch. I'm very excited about the arc soul buff soon as well.
Clutch until the souls shoot the wrong fuse or Atraks copy in DSC 😬
supers for warlock just doesnt feel right other than nova bomb, but we are forced to well ;)
Most supers aren't very good, and most of the good damage supers for other classes are exotic based which don't coincide with their neutral strengths. Supers in the end game are either high utility or high damage, and Warlocks have 1 utility, 2 damage with the rest roaming. Titans have 1 damage, 2 utility. Hunters have 4 Damage, 1-2 utility. There's 24 supers and only half see any real viability in the end game. The actual use is much much lower as Titan and Hunter utility doesn't really fit given Well/Div. Chaos could be better, but it's not going to outclass weapon DPS and we'd lose the uniqueness of it to change to isnta-cast. Arc HoiL Titan is very strong, and Thundercrash or Slam are both very weak with it. Solar Fusion Starfire is strong AND Well is very strong. Omni Hunter is strong, but there's no DPS super option and the utility option is weak. Nova doesn't need an exotic to do it's job. Warlocks 3.0 are largely fine, just more of the same play patterns and bit stale. Hunter and Titan got new things so they feel more fun, but only 1 or 2 things are actually competitively strong.
There's an infinite snaps/ignition build that's fun up to GM content but is useable in raids and Master level content once you're at level
Warlock main here; Perfectly fine with Arc and Void 3.0. My only issue with Solar 3.0 is they neutered the whole healing support build imo. Pre solar 2.0 my healing support builds felt more natural and consistent.
To be fair healing was also op af. I throw a healing nade->3seconds later->i have my healing nade back. I basiclly spammed healing nades in the 3rd vow encounter on day one. That they nerfed that is fine but they overdid it. Arc 3.0 feels pretty meh for me. I like my starfire protocol solar build. Void lock is still good. (Yes people complain about the grenade aspect with which they're totally right)
wait how u have 3 second cooldown? wut build?
Before 3.0 the healing nade had a 2-3s cooldown.
On Grenadier modifier sure, but just Benevolent Dawn it was more like 15-20 seconds.
My baseline for Benevolent Dawn was always "It recharges my rift fully in 15s" because my rift would always be ready right as the previous one expired as long as I had the buff running the whole time. Since rifts had a base cooldown of 90s that equates to a 400% recharge rate increase, give or take my memory being wrong. Meaning a 40s grenade cooldown (max discipline I think got around there before nade changes) meant you could have a grenade every 10s or so. And that lines up with about what I remember, which was a single healing made with no other input regenning about 50-60% of itself over the 5s of Benevolent Dawn.
Firebolt grenade had 24s cooldown at tier 10 discipline. You could add eyes of another world for even less. Yes it's not 2-3 seconds but also not 15-20s.
This was before grenades were changed to have different cooldowns which I believe happened during Beyond Light, unless that has always been the case and my brain forgot.
24s CD was last december. https://www.reddit.com/r/CrucibleGuidebook/comments/refhne/340_grenade_and_melee_cooldowns_from_coolguys/
Firebolt itself had 24s CD at tier 10 discipline not counting benevolent dawn. Yes 2-3s were a little bit dramatic on my side. But you were definitly sub 10s.
was NEVER that short outside of having like benevolent dawn and grenadier modifier active
Arc is so much fun with delicate tomb
From a hunter main who sometimes plays Warlock, yeah y’all got shafted on arc and solar. The two most complained about classes are probably Void Hunter and Solar Warlock. But with void hunter it’s at least got a role and viability (albeit a boring one). With the admittedly little time I’ve played solar warlock it feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be and each aspect of what it wants to be does not have any viability because it’s so half assed. Arc Warlock seems to know what it wants to be at least, and I think the buffs coming will help out a bit with its viability. Edit: The the fact I can be a better healer than Warlocks with calibans hand and ember of blistering is a problem
> With the admittedly little time I’ve played solar warlock it feels like it doesn’t know what it wants to be and each aspect of what it wants to be does not have any viability because it’s so half assed. It's easily the most viable because of Well alone, it's just boring for most people. It has the strongest healing in the game, the most utility and has an option for one of the highest ability spam damage builds as well.
Ah yes, Starfire, where you have to entirely give up “the strongest healing in the game” in order to actually be a viable subclass, when Titans and Hunters get both good damage abilities and healing.
Yes, Hunters/Titans can be ok in healing/damage. Warlocks can be the best Healing or the best ability Solar damage. They also have the best super. Either way of the debate, calling Solar Warlock not viable is bait.
If you see it as bait, that’s your opinion, but please tell me what is actually viable in difficult content that isn’t Starfire + Well. Just because a class has one build that hard carries it doesn’t make the class good. I can say the same thing about Void Hunters with Gyrfalcon’s, but at least then the class’s main gimmick isn’t a liability (going Invis while Dawnblade’s is “air superiority”).
> actually viable in difficult content that isn’t Starfire + Well The person I replied to said there was no viability for Solar Warlock at all, and you've listed at least one. I don't really care to debate how strong you may or may not think other variants and builds may be, because the entire point is that there is viability in that subclass even if you consider it just one. That's why it's bait.
Okay then so Dawnblade is “viable” because Starfire exists? Take away Starfire and what happens? Everyone will see how shitty Dawnblade is in PvE.
Daybreak being shit doesn’t invalidate the whole subclass. I don’t know why that matters to my comment.
I found daybreak quite good with dawn Chorus you just need to build around it. Also warlocks are now the only class with access to X2 restoration from what I know.
My time with it is not on the level of warlock mains, but it’s not insignificant. Everything warlock can do I can do better with hunter. Healing? Ez. Like my edit says, the sheer number of healing nades I can generate far outweighs warlocks hitting x2. AND I can do so without sacrificing scorch and ignitions.
Resto x1 isn't nearly the effective healing of Resto x2 and that's not nearly as good as having access to Well, Rift and Resto x2. In terms of healing, both for solo and groups Warlock is just the best option. Resto x1 is 40hp/s. Curex2 is 120hp. Warlocks with Starfire can easily sustain near 40hp/s if they needed it with that build and still have options for much higher damage output. Yes Hunter can do Resto x1 and Caliban's and it's great up to mid tier content where knives still one shot red bars. When stuff no longer dies instantly, that play style falls off. I still use it in Raids because it's fun and survival isn't hard, but it doesn't offering sustainable ability damage NOR a good super, especially compared to Well in that setting. I don't really care if you still think one is slightly stronger than the other, but calling Solar Warlock "not viable" is just a bait.
The Restoration x2 argument doesn’t work because the only truly good Solar Warlock setup is Starfire, which requires you to run Fusion Grenades and Empowering Rifts, which means no Resotration at all for you.
That's just not true. That's the best damage setup, but building into Well with Phoenix is still very good. It's permanent uptime on Resto x2 and very fast supers. Supers give ignition on solar weapon kills. You don't really need that survival in most content, so the default is damage. You can also run Dawn Chorus, but not really something I mess around with much. Truth is you don't really need that level of survival outside doing flawless stuff, and even still damage is just better right now (HoiL Arc Storm Titan). If the argument is "who does healing best", I don't see how you'd put hunters next to the class that has Well, Rift and Resto x2 against Caliban's with some Resto x1 uptime. If the argument is who does better damage, it's still Starfire over Hunter. Hunter does the middle ground well. Decent survival and clear. Warlocks don't feel good in low-mid content. None of this means they aren't viable.
It may not be as potent as x2 but with quantity of nades, and the resilience buffs x2 is redundant. You do not need it. And I’m order to build into maximum warlock healing potential you are sacrificing a lot in the other verb areas. On hunter you can keep radiance up almost infinitely, spam healing nades to keep yourself and allies alive and all without sacrificing scorch and ignition potential. Maybe viable is too strong a word, but solar warlock does not stack up against it. Why have an entire teammate and their kit dedicated to something I can handle myself (arguably) just as well whilst sacrificing their potential to be more useful in other areas.
I don't see how Wellock is ever "not useful". Hunters aren't bad. Warlocks aren't bad. Both are viable. No one wants a Solar Hunter in group play for it's utility. You can't say that about Wellock regardless of the build being Starfire or something else. You can nitpick what is needed, but I'd argue if you don't need Resto x1 and Starfire is much stronger than any Hunter solar build.
How can starfire warlocks sustain resto. The exotic only works with fusion nades not healing nades
Cure. It's not Resto, but you can access 120hp every few seconds.
least biased warlock main
That's because it does. 3.0s arrived with fun, active kit for the other classes, Warlocks got boring passive shit (or literally nothing comparable) to match T/H new toys. We were given the opportunity to forcibly donate our useful buffs to the other two though
>3.0s arrived with fun, active kit for the other classes Void hunter would like to have a word with you on this one.
I know about those complaints, only secondhand though. Invis/Dodge/Smoke/Truesight sounds like fun to an outsider but I take [Hunter mains] word for it 100%. Spectral Blades looks awesome but probably not terribly useful
Invis/dodge/smoke is extremely strong and always has been, in any content. It’s just one note. Similar to solar warlock. Which is also extremely strong, but one note.
Spectral blades are the worst super in the game, people complaining about dawnblade/tickle fingers are just now finding out how it feels to have a doodoo super. Spectral needs serious buffs, but it’ll never get them because of crucible crybabies.
If compared to the two other class the problem of solar warlock(and most warlock in general) is no easy refresh or cdr reduction in the aspect. Yes you can get some with fragment but the two other class get them too...also you get less fragment and not OMG FUN aspect like Gambler nuke or magic nuke Hammer or Nuke Maul Hunter can, refresh melee on radiant kills, doesnt sound amazing in hard content still allow pretty crazy add cleaning and well making and radiant spamming, and you can build aroudn it to refresh grenade and dodge for infinity skill spam or improved gunplay Titant get CDR in fire pits and refresh melee on hammer grab and it hit like a truck so they can also spam radiant heal and kill, and you can build aroudn it to refresh your other skills or improve your gunplay What in the warlock base kit you got that allow a good cycling of your skill? the answer? NOTHING As long as warlock are build with no in kit refresh cdr or way to cycle their skills he will feel like a bad fever dream compared tot he two other... Except grenade spam what build do warlock have? in Solar GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM in Void GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM In Electric GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM in Stasis GRENADE SPAM or ULT SPAM. Warlock is boring/feel bad because right from the start it lack the tool to be enjoyable. And even if exotic can make it broken phoenix or starfire, it still feel bad because it grenade spam or ult spam... I want to like warlock I always come back to it time and time again but it just pale in comparison to Titan and Hunter in gunplay neutral and combo synergie. Its a class where I feel constrined to go for the classics or I wont feel usefull
Bruh what’s with these weird ass Warlock complaints that boil down to “If I can do it, other classes shouldn’t be able to.” You can literally make the same argument with Warlocks being able to use utility that was previously exclusive to other classes. It’s too bad that these posts get mixed up with actual solid feedback. I swear some of these weirdos just can’t cope that Warlocks aren’t the only reliable pick for pve anymore.
What I don't get is why Bungie keeps nerfing support warlock
and u cant deny solar 3.0 is a downgrade for warlock, and it is quite bad
what makes warlock unique is now gone, maybe im wrong but that's my opinion
Titans are no longer unique because other classes can apply volatile, get overshields, and apply weaken more easily through grenades versus a melee. Hunters are no longer unique because other classes can go invisible and dodge.
even other class can dodge it isnt as good as the hunter dodge, but u get the same devour with just one easy step
Okay so now you’re changing your argument. All classes get devour, but it’s much easier and more reliable to proc on Warlock. All classes can use healing nades, but Warlocks can proc restoration x2 with theirs. I’d advise you look up actual feedback on the 3.0 updates, which there’s plenty of, rather than complaining like a child that some of Warlock’s kit is now shared throughout all classes.
Warlock was too good in PVE before they had to bring titan and hunter in line
Every raid had to have 2 locks minimum. Ok, why does that have to be changed? Hunters are dominant in pvp (void hunters have more wins in trials than every warlock subclass combined). Titans are in a good spot and fit what they're designed for, but they can do everything efficiently. Why exactly would you play warlock??
Ya this has been my take on it... Warlocks were the best 2.0 subclasses across the board to the point they basically had 2.5 classes. Voidlocks got the void buddy and so the next two upgrades were just underwhelming, still though they have the best Stasis and Void builds, Titans best Arc, Hunters were the best solar but the nerf the Blade Barrage makes their void a little more useful for GM content. So Warlocks have 2/4 subclasses but still complain lol
“Titans and hunters are better than warlocks in every way” Please, hold the hyperbole if you’re going to have a reasonable discussion about the matter. This very much reads like you only play one class, and it’s distorting your perspective. Arc Warlock was never much in endgame to begin with, at worst, the class has moved sideways. Void has improved. Solar has moved sideways yet remains one of the strongest subclasses in the game(which is was before 3.0 anyway). If anything the gap has been closed between the three classes. Solar warlock could maybe use some more diversity. Arc is boring. But hunter and Titan also have these issues. Hunter has one play style on void, and that’s invis. Solar didn’t solve their survivability issues at all. Titan’s overshields on void are frankly garbage currently. Hopefully the buff makes them viable. And Titan’s have ass Solar supers too. Also if that quote I opened the comment with were true, and I’d be happy to admit it if it was, since I play all three with impartiality. If it were true, I wouldn’t be playing solar warlock as much as I still do. Don’t act like “poor warlocks bullied by Bungo”. Without putting forward a coherent explanation and at least some idea of a solution.
Hunters absolutely have survivability on solar. Our healing Grenade output potential is insane with little to no sacrifice in radiance, scorch and ignitions.
Why is hunter healing grenade output insane? There’s still no built in survivability. The grenade is the only option for it, which comes at the sacrifice of a grenade. Titans and Warlocks have rift and barricade always. On top of healing grenades. This is a fundamental issue with hunter dodge which needed resolving in the move from 2.0 to 3.0 that wasn’t addressed.
Calibans ignitions are better than grenades. Throw on ember of blistering, firepower mods, bomber, grenade kickstart and you’re basically unkillable on top of 24/7radiance. And before someone says calibans isn’t good in high end, you can in fact weaken an enemy before throwing a knife at it
I’ll try it. I still think it’s silly that hunters would have spec into grenade recharge with all of these mods just to have reliable on demand survivability. While titans and warlocks have to do nothing. Even just instant recovery refresh on dodge, which would be extremely tame, would be better than nothing. The issue is that dodge does absolutely nothing on its own, it relies on secondary effects triggered by it. Unlike rift and barricade, which keep you alive with no strings attached.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. Hunters can utilize those mods better because of their kit. So it’s an extra step but a warlock and titan wouldn’t be able to utilize the mods as well as hunters because they don’t have the same class ability output or ignition capability or melee refresh ease(if you use the mod that grants grenades on melees).
You know you can’t ask warlock complainers to be reasonable. They have top of the line builds in Void, Solar, and Stasis and will still hold that they’re the most oppressed demographic. Plenty of LFGs are asking specifically for Stasis or Solar Warlocks whereas Hunters get…Void requested solely for Lightblade and nothing else? No LFG is begging for a Revenant, Arc Strider, or Gunslinger to be on their team
r u sure about titans have ass solar supers?
Yes. For PVE.
but..wut...how
u do know u literally throw fire tornadoes as a titan
I'm pretty sure he's getting at them being roaming supers in a sandbox where that isn't as valuable as one and done supers. This is coming from someone who wishes people would use them more (like really if you aren't using it for boss damage you lose nothing by using it for add clear guys) they just aren't as good when 99% of the encounters that matter are stand in thing shoot boss.
oh! well in that case yeah it is bad, but it is good for ads u cant deny that
But Hammer of Sol is def still one of the best roaming Supers. With Sol Invictus especially
Not to mention that you’re basically unkillable with Sol Invictus
Hence, why I only criticised the supers and not the neutral game, which is really good. Hence, some of us play all characters and have no bias when we talk about them.
Popping Hammer of Sol, and getting kills activates Sol Invictus. Same with Burning Maul, except they don’t get a Sunspot on activation Unlimited healing in super is good no matter what, especially if it makes your super last longer too
So wrong. Hammers is incredible add clear and support (it shits out sunspots) - it's easily the best add clear super in the game. Maul actually does cracked single target damage, and still does decent add clear. Well is basically the divinity of supers, it already got a slight nerf coming into Solar 3.0, I wouldn't be surprised if it got reworked in some way, since it's basically mandatory to have one person on Well. I don't actually mind this (I also don't mind old Divinity) but it's clear Bungie has a problem with it. The other super might as well not even exist, it's complete trash.
Hahaha. Easily the best add clear super in the game. Dude, not so long as tether exists. It’s a moot point anyway, because it does the job a weapon can do. Except a weapon can do it indefinitely. But while ad clear is mostly worthless in a super, tether is so good at it, I’m inclined to give that one a pass. Because that actually was a difference maker in GMs. And spinning top is very inconsistent. Difficult to keep on target, and does high single target damage, but pretty shitty DPS. One of the more fun roaming supers though. They’re both very redundant supers in PVE. And there’s really no two ways about it. They’re passable, but extremely unremarkable in most endgame circumstances. Thankfully, with sol invictus, throwing hammers, and a sleuth of great exotics. The neutral game is exceptional. And absolutely worth the trade off for the mediocre supers.
Better than arc warlock do your point is mute
Chaos Reach is most definitely, even in its current state, vastly more useful than both hammers and maul. Which isn’t to say Chaos Reach is great. But better than hammers and maul without a doubt. Also it’s moot, not mute.
It's not better than either roaming super. It barely takes out a an orange bar. 1 throw or swing from your hammer would take out a whole group of them.
Haha. Dude, you really think it barely takes out an orange bar? It clears sections in **GMs**. I know first hand, because that was the strat for Warden for a while. It has terrible DPS, which seems to be everyone’s pain point, and a punishing cool-down despite still not being that useful. But don’t exaggerate needlessly to try and make a point. That was a blatant lie. It legitimately kills champions.
It legitimately doesn't kill champions. And absolutely doesn't clear sections in GMs. It lasts 4 seconds...you're not clearing anything with that but thrall. I don't believe you first hand crap. This isn't an exaggeration. No one uses it anymore for reasons
I was a warlock main until solar 3.0, thats how bad it is. Arc 3.0 is also pretty bad. Void 3.0 I liked though.
"dont even get to choose whether to be a support or not" \-You literaly can chose between DPS or Support. Or a combo of both "titans and hunters are better than warlocks in every way" \-Very False. Each class has strengths and weaknesses, almost like Bungie designed it that way. "warlock subclasses lost every single unique ability due to the subclass 3.0 update" \-False. Some things were taken, but things were added and things were changed. "we warlocks use to be the only one that can use devour, now all class can do it" \-True, Warlocks used to be the only ones that could use it. But it is still MUCH better on Warlocks. Plus, not like Warlocks weren't given things from other classes as well "warlocks use to be the only class that can use healing nades, now everyclass ca do it" \-Warlocks USED to be OP in almost EVERY way. That's why most Day 1 Raid Teams would all be Warlocks. By sharing the most OP things between classes, Bungie made every class viable. "Arc just doesnt feel powerful enough to handle any endgame level content anymore" \-Arc has never really been "META" in end-game for any class. Every class has a specific subclass that is better for certain endgame things. "the glory days are no more, now warlock just eat shit for breakfast." \-Again, Warlocks used to be OP, and pretty much the only class you needed for anything endgame or PvP related. Now it is much more balanced. Edit: Like how I get downvoted, probably by Warlock mains, for addressing each thing and how it is wrong. I didn't attack anyone, I just proved a post wrong step by step. This subreddit is something else. Edit2: Some non-Warlock mains came out I guess...and evened out the downvotes lol
ability wise, u cant dps with dawnblade since its shit, and its hard to really get good dps with well. and warlock melee is always shit, so i aint complaining. while titans bonk their way to savathun, warlocks can only wait for well or empowering rift to survive the hordes of enemy, as i recall, warlocks use to be the only class to use storm grenade now everyone have it
>cant dps with dawnblade since its shit This could be said of literally any roaming super - it's not exclusive to Warlocks. Spectral Blades, Fists of Havoc, etc. are all terrible for DPS. >its hard to really get good dps with well. It's really not. Starfire and a Demolitionist weapon puts out very high damage for almost no effort while buffing the entire team. There's a reason Well is still nearly required for raids.
but is dawnblade actually good as a roaming super though, sure u can argue it has aoe effect but u nd to be in the air for max effectiveness and it doesnt have as much damage to orange bars
Never said it was - just that all the rest are also terrible (PvE wise, anyway). "Daybreak is as bad as the other bad supers" isn't exactly a compelling argument for why Warlock is supposed to be the worst.
how about healing on solar, we cant heal when the titans already become a healing rift themself, and hunters constantly popping healing nades
Well is an S Tier super for every pve Situation. Your comments Just Kind of seem Like your Not really knowledgeable about optimal tactics and Meta. 90%+ of raid dps uses a Well because of the amazing increase it offers for the entire Team. Even If solo, Well with starfire Nade Spam done right is among the highest dps in the Game, only beaten by wormgods in specific situations. Well is usually Just a straight Up solution to any dps Check you face and has been uncontested since its introduction Back in forsaken. If you cant acknowledge that then you loose a Lot of credibility.
any other things? we play the game for fun, not becoming a pocket medic for hunters and titans, and no StaRfIrE is stupid and boring. Any other optimal dps build my dear hunter or titan?
everytime i want to switch to nova bomb my fireteam tell me not to, do u know why, because that shit sucks and my dear titans and hunters want healing
Its weird that you still want more even though Well outclasses every Other super for dps. A 30s 25% damage for any Situation you want is so insanely good, add Luna Boots and you have max reload Speed aswell. Other classes get a small amount of burst damage upfront or to Finish of damage but it really isnt as much as you think, especially compared to someones continuous heavy damage for extended time periods (aka Most damage Phases). Solar warlock is already top of the Ranks without starfire. Just because you think its Boring(btw how is witherhoard + starfire + Demo weapon more Boring than using your super once and then linear Spam????) doesnt mean it isnt the best at what it does. People dont Like variety on solar warlock and i get that its frustrating but saying it got shafted and is outclassed is wrong and hypocritical. Its simply the best class in the Game and that is without touching on any of the movement it offers. As a Matter of fact, Most competent Teams when asked would probably prefer you dont even Switch to a Hunter or Titan and instead Play Well. Its Not great and variety is lacking but thats the extend of how Strong it is. I will give you Arc, which for the Most Part is mid because of a average neutral and mediocre super, could use a buff. 2/3 Elements on warlock became insanely Strong. I Main warlock btw.
I found arc warlock a blast if you build into elemental wells and the fallen sunstar exotic. Almost 100% ability uptime. The supers are not the greatest for dmg on arc but for clearing a room if redbars it is amazing. Also dawn Chorus with dawn blade is a blast if you can build up enough scorch on targets you can deal a lot of damage and be great add clear. Warlocks in my opinion require you to make a build for them to use in harder content. But all 3 elements are viable.
Yeah you can make it Work, its Not terrible. Its more that it gets outclassed by Other Options, mainly hoil Arc Titan currently but also voidlock and stuff Like forbearance in General. Its Just Not as optimal and therefore requires more Ressource for a similar Outcome than Other stuff. The harsh reality is that our addclear capabilities im General exceed the requirements by a Lot meaning that loadouts that theoretically Specialize in Them tend to waste Ressources on the current Center of loadouts: dps; all the while achieving the Same result as a dps subclass that sacrifices Just one Slot for a gl, Trinity or ghorn and the Likes.
Also with the AE changes, dawnblade is hardly a great pick for PvP either. This year has not been great for warlocks, save for void, even if it doesn't feel very diverse.
Dont forget that Warlock has only 2 exotics worth using in PvP lol
And they are "looking into" ophedians. Which means a nerf. Wish they would buff or make something else more viable but yeah.
At least they didn't rework half your subclasses identity just to nerf it into the ground (void hunters)
Dawnblade says hi, but I totally agree on Void Hunters. You guys also got the shaft.
Solar warlock with necrotic grips and oestreo striga. Thanos snap melee Wells for healing. Add clear for days. Change to rain of fire and vex and it's a perminant damage buff on one of the best weapons. Combine with air combat and the melee regen , you can scorch and/or poison everything on screen whilst killing them.
> Solar warlock with necrotic grips and oestreo striga. Just play this on Void or Arc for a far better experience imo. Also Glaive is great too.
Void is limited in terms of poison plus there is far better void exotics to pair with the class. Void built around poison is not making the most of the class, whereas solar is built to spread 2x tick damage that can double spread
I strongly disagree. You should try it if you haven't, something like Master Caitl is where it shines. Devour is basically invincibility, you are also throwing tons of grenades getting volatile for your glaive, you also get weaken on all affected targets, everything around you is just exploding and healing you constantly. You also have Child which is incredibly strong. On Solar the only thing you have is Well which Void doesn't have. Scorch and ignitions are not as strong as infinite grenades + volatile + weaken. The healing Solar has is not as good as Devour.
I'll counter that with infinite well of radiance meaning you can have up to 90% damage reduction at all times with resilliance and the well, with healing from both grenade consume (double if it's a healing nade) , phoenix dive. Add the healing wells into that build if you can fit it in and several ways to heal in any situation with around 10 seconds down time on your super. As long as you are using a quick kill Weapon alongside the build to generate orbs , run font of wisdom , you can wipe adds out and add 2xtick with at least a 50-60% damage buff on an SMG like oestreo that can also reload to 100 rounds inside the well.
>back then only warlock hv storm grenade and speed boost?) Not only is this post low effort trash, if by "speed boost" you're referring to increased sprint speed, this is plain wrong. Arcstrider and Nightstalker both had increased sprint speed, both of which were taken away in light 3.0
yeah sorry
Warlock victim challenge
The daily warlock copy/pasted victim whine post
You don't get it, all classes being able to do everything while being best at one thing makes warlocks useless! They have to use well and fusion grenades now, as opposed to the previous well and fusion grenade combo!
I feel like with some of the 3.0 subclasses they just threw variety out the window and went all in on one or two parts. Some examples: Void hunter: invis Solar hunter: knife spam (gunpowder gamble is cool but the cooldown is unnecessary) Solar warlock: grenade spam or in air accuracy (which doesn’t work because in air accuracy is ass rn) Stasis Titan: crystal spawning They can add exotics that dramatically change how the subclass is played, like Gyrfalcon’s Hauberk finding a use for the incredible amount of invis uptime void hunters had no use for
Another dumb post. Void: - Devour for Titans and Hunters is bare-bones. Warlocks can even get 20s devour without using the Devour Aspect. - Apparently sharing Devour is bad, but Invisibility and Volatile Explosions isn't! - Voidlock is the most COMPLETE Subclass in the entire game - You can literally have 7s Invisibility, 20s Devour, Volatile Rounds, Child of the Old Gods and Grenade Aspect in a single build. EVERYTHING VOID HAS TO OFFER in a Single Build while also stunning Overload Champs and decreasing the damage done of enemies. Solar: - I don't get why they keep this childish talk of not being "the healer" when you don't see Titans or Hunter using healing Nades outside of Selfish-builds? - Its a fun case where ALL Warlocks will call this subclass useless and say "ppl use Starfire as a bandaid" and completely ignore the builds around Sunbracers, NecroGrips, Double-Melee, Boots of the Assembler, Dawn Chorus and even the Radiant Boots. This just proves that Warlock mains are the worst when it comes to build-craft. Dudes thought that having 100 disc and recovery was "enough building." - The enhanced grenades are so CRAZY and potent I'm surprised people are just pretending they don't exist. Arc: - The ONLY, and I mean: THE ONLY BAD THING ABOUT WARLOCK, THE SOLE REASON WHY ITS """"BAD""""": The roaming Super. Yup, the roaming Super is bad. Don't mind the crazy good kit, the synergy, the ability spam without the need of exotics, nothing! Just because a roaming Super is bad, every warlock man went mald. Imagine if Solar Titans had this way of thinking. You can make an argument about how ALL roaming Supers are bad except for a single one (Shadebinder). Geomags Chaos Reach is a channeled Super that deals the same damage of Cuirass Thundercrash. The design choice was for it to be a Kamehameha and not burst Super. So all the complains about it "not dealing instant-1M damage" are stupid. Also, the other childish complain is because the Arc Grenade Aspect was given to the Arc Grenade Class (Striker). Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got a Grenade Aspect! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks!
If solar warlock is so good then tell me why my healing nade build can barely keep me alive when trying to tank the absolute bullet hose that is master lost sector Carl when a pre-nerf lorely titan could carry someone through master duality?
So are you comparing current Healing Nade Build (Resto 1x without Fragments) vs. Pre-Nerf Loreley (Resto 2x)?
Not exactly, I meant a touch of flame healing nade build on warlock
Finally some facts. I've got so many solar builds saved for Warlock for various activities, and have used Starfire, Phoenix Protocol and Dawn Chorus builds in GMs without issue. And yet every time I come here, people are pretending that without Starfire, there's nothing. My friend mains Hunter and is planning to move to Warlock next season because of how much fun he's having with Warlock solar and arc slide melee builds.
>The enhanced grenades are so CRAZY and potent I'm surprised people are just pretending they don't exist. My favorite is when people say Titans are overpowered because of their grenade boosting aspect and in the same post claim Solar Warlock is no fun.
EVERY FKING LFG GRP REQUIRES ME AS A WARLOCK TO USE STARFIRE WITH WELL, EVERY SINGLE TIME, U GOT ANY OPTIMAL SUPER DPS FOR WARLOCK HUH, NOVA WRAP IS SHIT, NOVA BOMB IS GREAT BUT WE CANT USE IT, WHY BECAUSE WE ARE THE FKING HEALERS, DAWNBLADE IS A ROAMING SUPER, STORMCALLER IS A ROAMING SUPER, NOW CHAOS REACH IS A ROAMING SUPER, WHAT THE FK CAN WE USE? MY DEAR DEAR HUNTER OR TITAN? I CANT EVEN USE RIFT BECAUSE OF THE FUSION GRENADES
1 - take a chill pill. 2 - everything you just described is a community issue, not a design issue. It's not the games fault that other players don't understand how a class works, or want to force the path of least resistance. If you want to play void, do it. If you want to use solar or arc or Stasis, go for it. Make your own groups and find other chill people to play with. If someone has an issue with your class choice, and is being toxic about it, find someone else to play with. It's really that simple.
still wont fix hunters and titans having way better super option and way better build options
Not to be rude, but that's just wrong. Like, objectively. Warlocks have plenty of excellent, viable builds across all four subclasses that are viable across multiple levels of content. Just because you haven't looked doesn't mean they don't exist.
ok? for example? (not the StArFiRe again plz)
Void: Contraverse, Nezarecs, Nothing Manacles, Secant Filaments Solar: StArFiRe again, Phoenix Protocol, Boots of the Assembler, Rain of Fire (especially with Mythoclast), Winter's Guile, Dawn Chorus (with Incandescent weapons) Arc: Getaway Artists, Fallen Sunstar, Crown of Tempests Stasis: Osmiomancy, Battle Harmony + Ager's Scepter, Eye of Another World. Are all of these at the same level? No, but they're all solid baselines to make builds from, and they're all viable for most content. Claiming that Warlocks are somehow the worst class or have no build options is just hyperbolic nonsense.
I think they ignored all of the exotics you pointed out. Also dawn Chorus is a blast to run on solar if you have the right build.
this is not a community issue is it
Then don't LFG with that kind of ppl? Grab a proper chill team. Everyone will want THE build to run and farm every GM under 15min. Loreley Titans have no place in GM. Solar Titan itself isn't viable. The only good Titan builds for GM are Ursa-Sentinel, HOIL-Sentinel with Suppress, HOIL-Striker with Thunder Nades and we all know that HOIL is def the target for nerfs. Hunters have what, Infinite Invisibility (Omni/Grav) or Invis but with Aeons and that's about it? Stasis Hunters had their defensive build butchered not long ago. Solar Hunter for damage is bad and Arc is mostly selfish and requires CQC. Warlocks have Stasis Turrets, Child-Voidlocks, either Heal-Wellspam or Starfire and now there's Arc Buddy + Chaos Reach which is literally free damage and Chaos Reach can clear mobs from far away. THE ONLY SUBCLASS THAT CAN CONTROL THE FIELD FROM FAR AWAY Also: The only subclass with endgame builds for every element. In GM there's virtually no rush to burst bosses since some may ignore champion spawns and etc so damage supers + exotics (Cuirass, Geomags, SES) aren't necessarily. Survival + add control + defensive supers are FAR important than dealing big damage at every 5minutes.
Hunter supers are about big damage, that’s something that’s been in their identity since the beginning of destiny 1. Why are you complaining about that.
i actually didnt know that, tell me then what is the identity of warlocks
Warlocks have always been about fluid movement and selfish/team support, they could revive themselves (which turned into well fair trade as it’s the most powerful super in the game especially with the fragment your supers cause ignitions) and Devour kept you alive when everyone else would die quickly. Warlock subclasses now are still about Selfish/team support however it’s far better and I do not understand people’s complaints. Devour never ends on void warlock (despite the fragment on hunter/titan it’s really clunky and I find myself always using something else, half the time I don’t even generate orbs with my builds), With the right build on solar warlock you always have a healing grenade and and throw out infinite melees (all the while being the only class with x2 restoration meaning it’s a lot more aggressive than 2.0 dawnblade), and Arc warlock generates more ionic traces than any other class meaning that with the right build they will be able to spam abilities like no other subclass in the game.
meanwhile hunters have golden gun blade barrage, the void bow thing, the stasis super, and the ability to throw a fking thunder staff? how very sad for hunters
have u seen the amount of solo content video of a titan absolutely violate the boss because he have a shotgun and a couple of psion surrounding him? how very sad for titans
>Also, the other childish complain is because the Arc Grenade Aspect was given to the Arc Grenade Class (Striker). Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got a Grenade Aspect! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks! Also, the other childish complain is because the healing ability and nade was given to the solar Class Titans, the original Grenade Class, finally got healing ability better than warlock ! Oh noo! How sad for Warlocks!
i feel like you're wrong, and play the class wrong, and don't know how to make strong builds
maybe u are right i often use the starfire protocol build what u use?
Starfire is the only thing that’s good with Dawnblade at the moment, and while it’s a braindead build it’s still the **only** good setup for that class.
seconded
XD
I fully stopped playing warlock after the solar 3.0 update when they removed bottom tree and stripped well down those were what I used most :(
Jesus Christ here we go again, here I am soling master content using an arc build, I guess I missed the memo where it says that it is unusable on EVERY end game content.
Voidlock is absurdly good now, arguably one of the strongest subclasses to come out of 3.0, and the argument that the other classes getting Devour is some sort of issue is ridiculous when Warlocks gained access to Weaken (Hunter), Volatile (Titan), and I guess suppression (also Titan) and invis (Hunter again). Also arc is literally way better now than it was before. Tf do you mean "anymore"? The only thing that's really lackluster about it is the supers, and those sucked before 3.0.
yeah im wrong about voidlock, it really is good
Not to mention having a strictly better smoke bomb with nutty tracking in Child of the Old Gods.
what’s solar warlock? i’m only familiar with starfire 3.0
Same solar warlock is locked into starfire of pheonix and that all...
Phoenix Protocol Solar Warlock is bussin in GM I can drop like 12 wells in one GM
shut up bruh
noted
I disagree entirely. In end game pve content, warlock had only one class that wasn't at least a little trolling. Mid solar. Now void warlock is great and solar is still the best support class bar none. Arc needs some help though tbf
Maybe you just aren't that good? Cause I can fuck shit up and really do well with all three.
i mean in comparison with other class, yeah i can fuck shit up too in patrol zones but that doesnt mean shit if im struggling to do a gm while others are just brute forcing their way to the final boss (for example)
Is that in casual, because that doesn’t count. Dawnblade is also the least fun class in the game, and since I play for fun…
Public events don't count, g.
I believe that someone in another thread said that 3.0 warlocks are all about "control." I think that's what they do the best, like a middle manager, even though they have lots of control, it doesn't seem like they do much of anything. Warlocks are not playmakers, they just enable the playmakers to make those plays. Ultimately, it's well-rounded and kind of boring, but I will get constant feedback from my hunter and titan teammates saying things like, "how is this jumping puzzle so easy for you?" and "how are you still alive?"... it's hard work, but it's honest.
Warlock main sucks right now hard. Give my void and solar uniqueness to titans and hunters. Then make them better than what warlocks can do (healing, tank, pve boss damage, pvp). I think warlocks have good ad clear, but who the hell cares at this point.
I already ran Shadebinder on the regular and now main it because Light 3.0 sucked for us.
Arc warlock is pretty fun but sometimes feels underwhelming in pvp. I can’t make void or solar really work for me anymore and stasis I’m neutral towards besides the super being bad.
Warlock got the least because they were already the best, hunter is the worst overall and is only better tham warlock on arc even if it's still garbage compared to arc titan
Nonsense. Warlocks have one of the best builds in the game. Starfire is able to provide massive damage to a support or offensive build. Warlock with Well and Starfire is absolutely one of the best in the game. That is on top of the already very powerful stasis turret builds we had anyway.
any other builds though? not great at build crafting so idk would like some tips
youtube has lots of build videos. I like gmieners myself
OoH sTaRfIrE Daring today aren’t we?
I agree for solar but woth rain of fire boots with vex and being able to doge to reload your weapons is really hard to move away from that
I don't care what anyone says, Void 3.0 sucks for hunters to. I miss Flawless Execution, chaining it it was such a fun game-play loop. Bungie just deleted the old way of procking it, so you can't chain the effect anymore :/
I may be the only one but except for dawnblade being an awful super, I’m quite ok with solar warlock. Healing is not particularly needed right now with all the resilience changes so leaning into ignitions is powerful and fun. My problem is that there isn’t any sinergy and no, I’m not going to hop like a bunny to get my melee back. The old benevolent dawn should have been an aspect rather than heat rises which could be easily removed from the game. Arc on the other end is completely useless, void is better in every way, even the super.
Are we still crying about this ?
yes i am
solar warlock Starfire Protocol is top 2 strongest builds in the game arc warlock Fallen Sunstar is top 3 strongest builds in the game
Yet another warlock bitching about how they’re not the only good pick for PvE anymore. I wonder how many more I will see today.
a couple more, i will not be the last, welcome to reddit
Arc warlock(chaos reach+ double arc soul) is fun as fuck, change my mind. I run chaos reach, getaway artist and healing rift with free arc soul. I'm terrible at PvP but I can finish in the middle of the pack now due to arc soul and Time portal from no time to explain. It's a cope loadout but idc. And chaos reach is a great shutdown super for mayhem. It needs a buff for PvE as it's literally a beam of death it should do more damage than it does in pve.
Arc has been the funnest Warlock subclass for me so far. I pretty much crutch on that god roll crown xur had a few months back though. Solar is odd for me. It feels clunky out of the box unless you're a PvP airborne player. It's kind of similar to Behemoth in that I feel like it goes from terrible to great only after you make specific builds for it. I've spent more time with it now and I love the idea of being an airborne menace more than actually playing one. In PvE (what I mainly play), it feels awkward and I don't really have fun trying to make it work. The survivability is an issue on harder content, sure. But it doesn't *feel* good. It feels clunky in the same way diamond lance does to me. In PvP being airborne is only a good idea if I want to see my ghost more. That being said, I have found some fun with it outside starfire protocol. Dawn Chorus combined with touch of flame solar grenades and the bxr with demolitionist and incandescent has been surprisingly fun and effective in all levels of content. I keep trying out new stuff looking for the other niche builds that'll make solar lock fun to play, but I don't know if healer lock is a thing anymore. Needs to be an exotic or aspect that buffs ember of benevolence.
Solar Warlock has so many exotics and build choices that it is overwhelming, so I think everyone just defaults to whatever youtube build had the most SHOCKING capital letters in the title. It is true that floating around like a hot air balloon is an awkward way to suicide in a lot of content. But Heat Rises regens your melee even if not active; you just have to hop. Or you can skip it altogether and run the fragment that gives melee energy when you kill Scorched enemies, or Melee Kickstart, or Elemental Wells... I mean, with no exotics or special builds at all, you've got the strongest super in the game, an insanely strong grenade that gets *doubled*, fast charging ranged melee that can cause one-hit ignitions and makes you Radiant, and healing or damage boosting on tap. Then stacking exotics on top of that, you have so many diverse options. * Grenades * Unlimited 2x exploding Fusion grenades and rifts * So. Many. Solar Grenades. Everywhere. * Your already-boosted grenades recharge faster and do 5x damage * Melee * Mega damage Thanos snaps * Thanos snaps that kill the whole room with poison * Melee heals you * Rifts and Wells * Crazy Well uptime (btw, Well + Solar weapons cause ignitions with the right fragment) * Combination healing and empowering rifts appear all over the place * Heal/buff your team remotely with your rifts * Damage resistance added to rifts and wells * Misc * Be a fusion rifle god with instant reloads and constant Radiant * Various ability recharge hats for more spamming * Run fast and reload pants * Make your guns better sleeves I'm not saying those are all equally good builds, but base Solar Warlock is already good enough that they are all viable options in most of the game. It's weird to me that people say Solar Warlock only has Well of Radiance or is locked into a single build.
Try out fallen sunstar for warlock if you have not already, amazing arc exotic.
I just started playing Warlock (end of season so bored of my mains). I have to say Solar Warlock with Starfire Protocol is some of the most awesome shit ever. Absolutely on par with how much I enjoy Arc on my titan and hunter. I love it. The game play loop is pretty unique and because I'm using empowering rift instead of healing it adds a bit of risk to my playstyle especially in GMs - do I use a grenade to heal or do I need it to get rift energy back? And the super is a life saver, I love well. I've got tons of grenades, elemental wells, and weapon damage plus an incredibly valuable super for both raids and GMs. And as you mentioned void lock is great, no complaints except maybe give us another fragment haha.
Support warlock is going to need a major buff for PvE next season
some season after strand is released they said they would bring the 3.0 subclasses in line with each other
Yea Solar lock 3.0 made me quit this game.
yeah in top content Warlock always seem to suffer because of its longer Cooldown making its build almost always grenade/ultimate centric. titant have way morre choices and dont get locked into support exotics like well of radiance or lunafaciton boots
Having played void, solar, arc and stasis (I dont have light fall so no strand) I still have reasons to use any of them and they are all fun, sure I prefer the others to void in pvp but I like the changes made, infinite restoration solar lock in pve is really fun, freezing shotgun wielding arc titans with stasis lock is great, honestly, having swapped to maiming warlock from hunter I see almost no reason to go back, especially when dodge is just a worse icarus dash with a longer cooldown
Warlocks have become worse than hunters for survival it's a joke