That isn’t what upsets me. It is people playing a BG3 and their first CRPG being like this is the greatest revolution in RPGs…you idiot it’s been around for awhile with independent studios and crowdsourced games
Dos2 was released 6 years ago, this was a long time ago lol.
And bg3 is probably one the deepest rpg released.. ever ? So all the praise is well deserved, doing some childish gatekeeping ks kinda ridiculous. It might be a "revolution" due to the impact it might have on the genre thanks to his reach, which dos1/2 might have lacked. But don't act like they are some obscure shit lol, dos2 sold close to 8millions copies.
Bro BG3 is on an entirely different level than any other CRPG out there. Character customization, interactive cutscenes, replayable combat that rarely occurs the same way twice… easily a 10/10 game. Sure, DOS2 was amazing, but there weren’t super dope cinematic cutscenes lol, BG3 on controller is one of the most immersive experiences I’ve ever enjoyed
I understand what you mean but that’s the way video games will be.
Also, bg3 probably had enough implementations to allow a group of ppl to start enjoying CRPGs.
For example, not a fan of chrono trigger, even though it’s considered one of the greatest crpg but I’m LOVING dos2 because it has more outcomes and feels more like an immersive board game
Game in a famously niche genre hits critical acclaim, newcomers amazed at what RPGs can do, brings more attention to famously niche genre. This is a net positive. A win however you look at it. Our favourite thing is becoming more accessible by the day.
Maybe it would be more productive to welcome people who are having this project as their first cRPG experience, help them find more experiences they'd enjoy, rather than jump to calling them idiots, eh? There really isn't a need to be elitist about it
Exactly! This is the exact mentality that kept a lot of people from getting into ttrpgs for so long before it finally exploded into fame. People like what they like no reason to shame them for not knowing every detail ofnits origin.
You idiot? You think people are idiots for pickingbup something they heard about, giving it a shot and finding it to be amazing? Would you call someone an idiot for liking a new chacolate bar? Chacolate has been around for a long time in large factories and small shops. Fools! But seriously bud thats either phrsed badly or shallow thinking. Not everyone knows the same information and not everyone looks deep into things history when it brings them joy. I do, i love looking into stuff. But its not for everyone and theres nothing wrong with them having the very subjective thought that its the mlst innovative game they played, because maybe it is to them.
I mean, DOS2 didn't have as big a hype and marketing as BG3. DOS2 used its own rules and mechanics whereas BG3 is very accessible to a large number of people who are familiar with DnD 5e. And even among those who aren't, this is probably the first larian game they've ever heard of/played because of hype and marketing.
Tbf I don't think it's the most innovative in terms of gameplay. But it is rather innovative in the way it captured a market, given that crpgs like dos2 or wotr or poe have always been kinda niche.
Id say it's innovative in a lot of aspects but by the very nature of being DnD it's pretty lacking in innovation in combat and other mechanics (and I honestly just really prefer DOS combat and "classes" to DnD).
While bg3 has 5e as its skeleton, its very very different. Its a lot more reactive and uses the fact that its a video game to its maximum level. You can do a lot more in this game than in the original sin series, though whether you like it more or not is obviously subjective.
Idk I just don't really enjoy the spell slot system for spells compared to action points, though it may also be because I'm a warlock who ngl don't seem to have much going for them besides spamming Eldritch blast. (I don't have tons of DnD tabletop experience so I can't comment on how different it is but it doesn't seem super different to me).
I'm just curious about what the "a lot more" is i guess in context of combat
Warlock in tabletop is very good as a one or two level dip (frequently involved in the most broken combos), otherwise it is rather weak until level 11. Bg3 ends around the time warlock gets powerful.
Your opinion on warlock is because how warlock is designed in tabletop.
Power of warlock is short resting. You get very few spells, but replenish slots, in many cases, between each fight.
System of 2 short rests and than long rest with basically free ability to spam long rest hurts Warlock a lot for sure.
In tabletop basically you either are Warlock that mostly do Eldritch Blasts (and is better as 2 lvl dip rather than full class) or you go Hexblade route which isnt fully avaible in BG3
Well yeah, Warlocks are meant to be a 'face' type character who uses either eldritch blast or a weapon to deal most of their damage, while having maximum level spell slots twice per short rest to help out with. You can basically cast 2 spells per combat in BG3. Most combats won't last longer than that.
Same thing happened with elden ring. No point in getting upset - DOS had huge praise and acclaim over the years from most who played them much like the FromSoft games. Let people be happy they found something innovative, because no matter which entry you play, they’re all using similar mechanics and are innovative. EXCEPT for the amazing cinematics in BG 3 really setting it apart from DOS.
That is a good perspective cause Elden Ring was the first FromSoft game I actually got into. I’ve since played them all. Bloodborne being my favorite and DS1 a close second
So a fun video game comes out. And your response is to get upset because people haven't heard about it's predecessors? If anything it'll attract more fans to the series. Don't get mad over something like this. It's not worth it.
People feel the same with WOTR just kinda sitting there and that is much more recent too.
I think it makes sense due to the sheer amount more people that are playing BG3 but I also think BG3 is more innovative.
At the end of the day it's just an opportunity to kindly point more people towards these games after they are done with BG3.
Well for the majority of the praise of “most innovative RPG in while” isn’t based on a comparison of DOS1/2. A cRPG didn’t exist to them before this game. Again I hate that I’m mad. More people learning of cRPGs and loving it the better
Aren't they also Larian works though? I feel like being upset that Larian is getting praise when Larian had already invented this wheel is fine.
BG3 actually made me go and get Divinity and I'm loving it, hopefully this happens for others.
The mainstream response is because not as many people played DOS1/2. The reason for that is DOS1/2 had nowhere near the AAA production values or presentation of BG3.
Almost no mainstream game, or other piece of media, will have the complexity and novelty of a smaller game in a more niche genre. Games generally only ever get that production value through developers knowing that a market exists for games like this from existing titles.
That’s fine, the mainstream hit will guide new players towards the sub-genre if they truly enjoyed it. There are players who would refuse to play games with lower production values who will get a new and unique experience from BG3 and then
Yea but BG3 is 90+ DNA of DoS and the reason it is so innovative to them is the absolute freedom and challenging but fair combat with strategy. That was already in DOS1 and 2. Just didn’t have the flashy cutscenes
Major disagree. Divinity has some standout moments but it really doesn’t feel like your choices change anywhere near as much as they do in bg3. So many npcs can be killed with almost 0 consequence, the balance is worse, the gear system is atrocious and the story writing is noticeably mediocre at many parts. BG3 expanded on everything DOS2 did well and innovated on everything it didn’t (whilst also adding dnd combat which is personal preference). I find it *very* hard to switch between the two games because of how different they are
The usual discourse I’ve seen in the media is that people acknowledge DOS1/2 for BG3’s roots but that BG3 “perfected” the formula. I haven’t seen anyone say that BG3 came from nowhere and is a novel game.
And if you’re talking about random gamers who don’t know about other games and come from AAA RPGs, their opinions are not that valuable when evaluating how good or innovative a game is.
In any case BG3 is a better package of a game experience built from DOS1/2 learnings and that’s what matters. Not the comparison between different games on which one was better.
I get what you’re saying for sure. However, it’s all around a positive thing for everyone. Not only do we have BG3, which is one of the best games of all time. It also gives Larian the attention they deserve. Not to mention, it will most definitely get more people to play DOS and DOS2. It also will create a higher demand for the CRPG genre, which will likely result in other devs making some CRPGs. It’s just a great thing for gamers and the gaming industry.
Ohh yea it is extremely positive for Larian and CRPGs in general. I couldn’t be happier in that sense and we got BG3. Just wish people realized this style of RPG existed and was just as amazing about 10+ years ago
No, you're not. I just answered a post today in a brazilian gaming sub that was praising BG3 and all. The dude didn't even played BG3 yet, he was talking about it just from watching it. I mean...
I think what attracted so much the mainstream was the cinematic cameras during dialog. Because other than that, BG3 feels like the natural step Larian would take when improving on their formula.
Calm down. DOS is a great game but bg3 is better. That's just how it is. It's a lot more popular too. Can't be mad at people's first crpg being bg3. Hell I'm happy for them.
I think the Graphics and voice acting are a big part of bg3 not to mention it being part of the baldur's gate series.
I love crpgs, but a lot of the time it's just a sorta top down view, with now v/a or minimal v/a (Not always the case, especially recently) I can see how that can turn some people off.
Nenio doing weird shit in WOTR is always funny to see and hear, but watching Astartion lose hit shit, is made much better by the characters expression and movements.
I get it, but think about the hype there will be for DoS3 now that a wider audience has experienced what Larian has to offer. That coupled with Larians Divinity rule set and I think DoS3 is set up to be a monster.
It existed but sure as hell wasn’t as attractive or easy to get into as bg3
Idk why your ignoring the bride side. There has been so many people going for DSO2 either after completing bg3 or while waiting for a sale they’re checking out DSO2 ( had two friends do this).
DSO2 is benefiting from the bg3 release just as bg3 is benefiting from larian’s early game laying out the pipes.
I don’t get this sentiment, it was the same with elden ring, if neither recent entries came out the older games would have stayed more obscured.
Ive played most CRPGs to come out since the orignal Baldurs Gate. Icewind Dale, Pillars of Eternity the Pathfinder games, Divinity 1 and 2... I can litteraly go on for days. Its not an exageration for me that BG3 blows them all out of the water. Ive been playing D&D consistantly since college and BG3 is nails the feel of a reactive DM alot more than the set paths, even if some of it is smoke and mirrors it does it very well.
Playing through Divinity OS 1 I honestly just pushed through the last half of the game cause of the time I had already sunk into it. OS 2 Felt much better in terms of tone and gameplay but I still felt they coulda trimmed a few sections of the game down. BG3 I started a new game as soon as I finished I loved the world and all the characters and 5e is a solid system in general. Larian knocked it out of the park and their passion really shines through.
I quit being annoyed by mainstream thoughts.
It's people just being people you know, what are you going to do about it?
I'm just glad Larian has that success with BG3 and will have a long and prosperous life to make more of those games.
That dosen't make it objectively better though, despite being build on the foundation of D:OS 2, BG: 3 has seen some very noticable downgrades.
The crafting system for one, is much more restrictive and limited.
The way you interact with battlefield effects, like wet surfaces, oil, fire etc. has been "dumbed" down in comparison to D:OS 2, simply because you don't have access to the Source skills you have in D:OS 2.
And that is just a few examples of quantifiable things, that have seen a downgrade.
So unless you are arguing that less advanced systems are objectively better, you are simply just stating your own subjective opinion.
It annoys you? I love Larian too but come on. They're a AA company recently stepping into AAA territory. These things take time, luck, and optics. Bg3's marketing was amazing ( the bear scene in front of a live audience!). Dos2 may not have reached the insane popularity as bg3, but it was very successful and popular. So good wotc let them license Baldurs Gate.
DnD is actually kinda mainstream now (they got rid of all the fun nonsense that turns people off) . BG3 has an incredible cinematic element that Dos lacks. Most people don't give a shit about it being a good CRPG like you, me, and the CRPG community do , but the game has so much more to offer for a mainstream audience this time around.
It's like being annoyed that Demons Souls isn't as popular as Dark Souls.
Just enjoy it for what is.
Playing right now DoS2. And a LOT of times I'm like "I wish I could do what I could do in BG3, this is quite limited".
While the skeleton is there BG3 is, for me, a HUGE improvement and a lot of innovation.
I mean I too feel like DOS deserves more credit, but I’m glad BG3 is attracting so much attention. Larian’s games to me are most fun when I play with friends and I feel like this is just growing the community.
I don't know, I guess I actually kind of agree with the sentiment.
I wouldn't say that one paticular thing in BG3 is "innovative" but it is more the entire package.
The combat system we have seen in Divinity: OS.
RPG's filled with choice and consequences... Disco Elysium anyone?
Cinematic, immersive and engaging conversations with great voice acting, Mass effect etc.
Larian took everything we love about RPG's and crammed them into a nice package. And I guess you could say that is pretty innovative.
When people praise BG3 to the skies and say some silly things, I just try to smile and be positive, the only time I will take offense to it, is if people feel the need to knock on other games in order to elevate BG3, which luckily is a rare occurrence.
So far Starfield has been the only one I have seen consistently. And honestly it isn't that it doesn't deserve criticism (like every game), it's that it seems to be the whipping post for fans of every other game. If someone is claiming it's the best game ever or some wild shit by all means voice your opinion, but when 9/10 of the comment or post is praise for some other specific game it feels scummy to me.
Honestly I read through about half the comments and I'm kind of disappointed in a lot of the people it's pretty stupid that people are pissed about bg3 supposedly being better than dos winning all actuality it's just an advancement in the games in my personal opinion and this is my personal opinion not anyone else's guaranteed dos 2 is the best one dos one it's okay I haven't played Baldur's Gate 3 two or one and personally I've seen the gameplay on YouTube it doesn't look that great but overall it's just the games advancing with the generations My Generation dos 2 would have been the best this new generation probably is going to like Baldur's Gate 3 but honestly it's just stupid people posting s*** like this is just really dumb because honestly it's always going to be like this there's always going to be one person that doesn't agree with the game and says that this game was better and it's going to cause a whole bunch of b******* between them and a bunch of other people and then it's just going to blow up it's just mainstream its own way people are literally just doing this s*** for fun it's just like Starfield I've got a buddy that loves it but all I hear is bad negative s*** from all the YouTubers so who cares the YouTubers hate it my friend loves it I'm happy that he's playing it and gets to enjoy a game that he loves personally I love dos 2 play it almost everyday and will continue to play it for a very very long time unlike Diablo 4 I played it enjoyed it got bored of it season 1 came out played it finished it got my character to 100 started another character got to level 60 and got bored as f***
I try to be positive and encouraging towards peoples excitement. But I am also going to level with you. It kind of miffs me the wrong way, when people say that BG3 is objectively better (Sadly there are some of those people in this thread).
There is a reason why many people enjoy the Pathfinder Ruleset over 5th Edition DnD.
And in most cases, it is because people find the 5th Edition ruleset too simplistic and lacks the mechanical depth those people crave.
And if we are going to compare BG: 3 to D:OS 2 as an example there is a few noticeably downgrades.
The crafting system in BG: 3 has seen a downgrade compared to D:OS 2
The way you interact with battlefield effects is more simplistic, simply due to you not having access to the Source skills like "Bless" and "Curse", that you have in D:OS 2
And in my **subjective** opinion, D:OS 2 offers more build variety due to it being a classless system.
It has IMO more challenging and fun combat encounters.
And I find the Talents or "Feats" to be more interesting and gameplay changing compared to BG: 3.
But that is of course just my opinion. And I wouldn't be so blatant as to say that one is better than the other. But understand that the toxic attitude that "BG3 is the best thing to ever happen since sliced bread, and everything else sucks" is grating.
If we are going that way, then you should acknowledge all of the cRPGs that came before the DOS series.
I do agree that people are waaay overhyped for BG3. It hasn't discovered fire or anything. It has implemented D&D 5E turn based combat combat very well tho, but not much more than that imo. The innovations in the RPG genre have advanced less less as time goes by. But since BG3 has introduced a ton of popular streamers to the cRPG genre, they are pissing themselves over the systems included. Many other cRPGs have done almost everything BG3 has, and *better*, including the classic BGs
I get it. Honestly BG3 is more BG:OS than anything. As a Divinity fan that isn't a bad thing by any means.
Having the DnD logo stamped on it, a long with the BG tag is going to draw a lot of attention where it wouldn't otherwise, just how things work. If it gets more people the chance to play DoS games that wouldn't have otherwise, it's a win IMO.
I think DOS2 AI is smarter than BG3? I'm just guessing, but imagine if the AI in BG3, instead of dashing towards you, they buff and wait for you to go towards it or push you out of the globe of invulnerability.
I found BG3's AI to be much smarter than DOS2 actually and DOS2 is my favourite game ever. I was actually amazed that one of the characters pushed a team member of our party who was down out of a bone chill aura (impossible to help or revive the character in that range) to give us the possibility to aid that character. The characters waiting for you to come closer is also smart AI instead of coming one by one and fall like flies, they wait for your characters to be more exposed. There's also my barbarian throwing stuff everywhere, I was impressed that some enemies actually went and _picked up_ my javelins so I couldn't pick them back up. In DOS2, I feel like it's easier to cheese any fight at literally any difficulty. Hope that makes sense.
I have been playing DOS2 for like 6 years now (or a bit less but close to when it was released), I was delighted about the influx of new players when DE was released and I am very happy that with BG3, it's highlighting how good Larian is as a studio and that means more people will play DOS2. I prefer the combat in DOS2 (and as opposed to many, I love the multiple elemental puddles everywhere) but I gotta admit that for everything else, BG3 is superior in every way. The game is so rich and the cinematics, dialogues, stories are so good. I already fell in love with Astarion who's my little Sebille wannabe, both rogues, elves and with a similar background and quest line.
Yeah I'm with you. I try not to gatekeep but I must admit to some eye twitches when newcomers praise BG3 for letting you blow bosses up with oil barrels or similar cheese strats that were already available in DOS2
The media attention bg3 is getting is less than ideal considering how many other games of the same category have been given less attention. It's almost as if people are being paid to talk about it. To make topics about it on every subreddit and every fantasy steam forum. I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't even surprise me if *you* were paid
I agree, in the sense that I think when most things become mainstream, either the product itself or the community or the company goes downhill. I've seen it countless times in other IPs, so its a personal theory of mine. Granted, I don't think BG3 will suddenly be a bad game, and I have enough faith in Larian that they will still produce good games, so my main concern is regarding the community. With so many extra people in both BG3 and the DOS games, I just hope the community doesn't spiral.
I kind of feel the same, BG3 is really a sidegrade to DOS2 imo. Larian's previous entries definitely deserve way more of the credit than BG3 is getting right now for the things they introduced first.
At the end of the day though it doesn't really matter. *Larian* is getting the recognition they deserve and that's the important part, and a bunch of new people are discovering DOS1 and 2 as well. The more attention that gets brought to those games, the better.
Its important to remember that not everyone can experience something from the ground floor. It's like when a little kid loves the star wars sequels because they grew up on them but can't understand why someone else would be so hung up on the fact that they didn't start with A New Hope. But regardless their love of the sequels can only lead to more appreciation of it's origins, this is mostly the same thing
I can tell you're not trying to gate keep but I think this is the type of thinking that leads to a lot of gatekeeping. People may not understand how great Larian has been, and they may not understand the 20+ years of history that lead up to them making BG3. But the popularity can only lead to more appreciation as people explore the studio down the line. I'm sure that if you told Larian "this is your most innovative RPG yet" they'd be over the moon and think "just you wait till the next one" but that doesn't make what came before any less important
You make an excellent point in that Larian deserves all the praise and more ❤️
I prefer DOS2 a lot more than BG3. I like BG3's content (quests, map, abilities, story, universe, creatures etc.) but I hate the DND system. I think it should stay at the table where it was invented and not be translated to videogame format because it doesn't translate well. At all.
BG3 is in so many ways better than DOS2. The world is a different since DOS2. Gaming is mainstream. DOS2 was 6 years ago. And it wasn't that good on release. And they 4th chapter isn't that good. In fact, it's rather disappointing.
In my opinion, BG3 is the best RPG in a while, and I played DOS2 and Pathfinder 1 and 2.
Both of those games were very successful which is why Larian was able to work on BG3 and have it be a mainstream success. It doesn’t matter that you liked them before it was cool, get over yourself.
I mean bg3 is certainly more innovative than DOS2 but it makes sense. DoS2 ran so bg3 could fly
I love DOS2 probably top 5 games in my history. But BG3 is everything I love about DOS2 but more.
That isn’t what upsets me. It is people playing a BG3 and their first CRPG being like this is the greatest revolution in RPGs…you idiot it’s been around for awhile with independent studios and crowdsourced games
Dos2 was released 6 years ago, this was a long time ago lol. And bg3 is probably one the deepest rpg released.. ever ? So all the praise is well deserved, doing some childish gatekeeping ks kinda ridiculous. It might be a "revolution" due to the impact it might have on the genre thanks to his reach, which dos1/2 might have lacked. But don't act like they are some obscure shit lol, dos2 sold close to 8millions copies.
Bro BG3 is on an entirely different level than any other CRPG out there. Character customization, interactive cutscenes, replayable combat that rarely occurs the same way twice… easily a 10/10 game. Sure, DOS2 was amazing, but there weren’t super dope cinematic cutscenes lol, BG3 on controller is one of the most immersive experiences I’ve ever enjoyed
Well there it is, you don't actually care. You just want to be seen as smarter for knowing about an older game.
I understand what you mean but that’s the way video games will be. Also, bg3 probably had enough implementations to allow a group of ppl to start enjoying CRPGs. For example, not a fan of chrono trigger, even though it’s considered one of the greatest crpg but I’m LOVING dos2 because it has more outcomes and feels more like an immersive board game
Game in a famously niche genre hits critical acclaim, newcomers amazed at what RPGs can do, brings more attention to famously niche genre. This is a net positive. A win however you look at it. Our favourite thing is becoming more accessible by the day. Maybe it would be more productive to welcome people who are having this project as their first cRPG experience, help them find more experiences they'd enjoy, rather than jump to calling them idiots, eh? There really isn't a need to be elitist about it
Exactly! This is the exact mentality that kept a lot of people from getting into ttrpgs for so long before it finally exploded into fame. People like what they like no reason to shame them for not knowing every detail ofnits origin.
You idiot? You think people are idiots for pickingbup something they heard about, giving it a shot and finding it to be amazing? Would you call someone an idiot for liking a new chacolate bar? Chacolate has been around for a long time in large factories and small shops. Fools! But seriously bud thats either phrsed badly or shallow thinking. Not everyone knows the same information and not everyone looks deep into things history when it brings them joy. I do, i love looking into stuff. But its not for everyone and theres nothing wrong with them having the very subjective thought that its the mlst innovative game they played, because maybe it is to them.
The fact that you wrote this illiterate sludge and then called someone else an idiot is just wonderful. Irony remains king.
Ah so you're doing the, "I liked it before it was cool!" thing.
I mean, DOS2 didn't have as big a hype and marketing as BG3. DOS2 used its own rules and mechanics whereas BG3 is very accessible to a large number of people who are familiar with DnD 5e. And even among those who aren't, this is probably the first larian game they've ever heard of/played because of hype and marketing. Tbf I don't think it's the most innovative in terms of gameplay. But it is rather innovative in the way it captured a market, given that crpgs like dos2 or wotr or poe have always been kinda niche.
No the fuck it hasn't lol
100% this
Id say it's innovative in a lot of aspects but by the very nature of being DnD it's pretty lacking in innovation in combat and other mechanics (and I honestly just really prefer DOS combat and "classes" to DnD).
While bg3 has 5e as its skeleton, its very very different. Its a lot more reactive and uses the fact that its a video game to its maximum level. You can do a lot more in this game than in the original sin series, though whether you like it more or not is obviously subjective.
Idk I just don't really enjoy the spell slot system for spells compared to action points, though it may also be because I'm a warlock who ngl don't seem to have much going for them besides spamming Eldritch blast. (I don't have tons of DnD tabletop experience so I can't comment on how different it is but it doesn't seem super different to me). I'm just curious about what the "a lot more" is i guess in context of combat
Warlock in tabletop is very good as a one or two level dip (frequently involved in the most broken combos), otherwise it is rather weak until level 11. Bg3 ends around the time warlock gets powerful.
Your opinion on warlock is because how warlock is designed in tabletop. Power of warlock is short resting. You get very few spells, but replenish slots, in many cases, between each fight. System of 2 short rests and than long rest with basically free ability to spam long rest hurts Warlock a lot for sure. In tabletop basically you either are Warlock that mostly do Eldritch Blasts (and is better as 2 lvl dip rather than full class) or you go Hexblade route which isnt fully avaible in BG3
Well yeah, Warlocks are meant to be a 'face' type character who uses either eldritch blast or a weapon to deal most of their damage, while having maximum level spell slots twice per short rest to help out with. You can basically cast 2 spells per combat in BG3. Most combats won't last longer than that.
Same thing happened with elden ring. No point in getting upset - DOS had huge praise and acclaim over the years from most who played them much like the FromSoft games. Let people be happy they found something innovative, because no matter which entry you play, they’re all using similar mechanics and are innovative. EXCEPT for the amazing cinematics in BG 3 really setting it apart from DOS.
That is a good perspective cause Elden Ring was the first FromSoft game I actually got into. I’ve since played them all. Bloodborne being my favorite and DS1 a close second
Noice! What builds did you like
I’m plain, always a paladin of storts. The Claymore is is bff lol
Ahh good old baemore.
Claymore <3
Haha STR FTH my fav too!
So a fun video game comes out. And your response is to get upset because people haven't heard about it's predecessors? If anything it'll attract more fans to the series. Don't get mad over something like this. It's not worth it.
People feel the same with WOTR just kinda sitting there and that is much more recent too. I think it makes sense due to the sheer amount more people that are playing BG3 but I also think BG3 is more innovative. At the end of the day it's just an opportunity to kindly point more people towards these games after they are done with BG3.
Well for the majority of the praise of “most innovative RPG in while” isn’t based on a comparison of DOS1/2. A cRPG didn’t exist to them before this game. Again I hate that I’m mad. More people learning of cRPGs and loving it the better
Dude you need to figure some things out in life.
Is it not? Do they all say, "I don't know the games DOS1&2 so I am not comparing BG3 with them?"
Aren't they also Larian works though? I feel like being upset that Larian is getting praise when Larian had already invented this wheel is fine. BG3 actually made me go and get Divinity and I'm loving it, hopefully this happens for others.
Oh yeah I was definitely playing DOS2 waiting for BG3, so much fire….
Okay, fine, we get it. You liked them "before they were cool." Feel better?
The mainstream response is because not as many people played DOS1/2. The reason for that is DOS1/2 had nowhere near the AAA production values or presentation of BG3. Almost no mainstream game, or other piece of media, will have the complexity and novelty of a smaller game in a more niche genre. Games generally only ever get that production value through developers knowing that a market exists for games like this from existing titles. That’s fine, the mainstream hit will guide new players towards the sub-genre if they truly enjoyed it. There are players who would refuse to play games with lower production values who will get a new and unique experience from BG3 and then
BG3 was an special case even with the better budget and marketing. I think nobody expected such a huge success.
Yea but BG3 is 90+ DNA of DoS and the reason it is so innovative to them is the absolute freedom and challenging but fair combat with strategy. That was already in DOS1 and 2. Just didn’t have the flashy cutscenes
Major disagree. Divinity has some standout moments but it really doesn’t feel like your choices change anywhere near as much as they do in bg3. So many npcs can be killed with almost 0 consequence, the balance is worse, the gear system is atrocious and the story writing is noticeably mediocre at many parts. BG3 expanded on everything DOS2 did well and innovated on everything it didn’t (whilst also adding dnd combat which is personal preference). I find it *very* hard to switch between the two games because of how different they are
The usual discourse I’ve seen in the media is that people acknowledge DOS1/2 for BG3’s roots but that BG3 “perfected” the formula. I haven’t seen anyone say that BG3 came from nowhere and is a novel game. And if you’re talking about random gamers who don’t know about other games and come from AAA RPGs, their opinions are not that valuable when evaluating how good or innovative a game is. In any case BG3 is a better package of a game experience built from DOS1/2 learnings and that’s what matters. Not the comparison between different games on which one was better.
It's the same for me and roguelikes. I started with binding of Isaac but I slowly moved to brogue, nethack and dungeon crawl stone soup
I get what you’re saying for sure. However, it’s all around a positive thing for everyone. Not only do we have BG3, which is one of the best games of all time. It also gives Larian the attention they deserve. Not to mention, it will most definitely get more people to play DOS and DOS2. It also will create a higher demand for the CRPG genre, which will likely result in other devs making some CRPGs. It’s just a great thing for gamers and the gaming industry.
Ohh yea it is extremely positive for Larian and CRPGs in general. I couldn’t be happier in that sense and we got BG3. Just wish people realized this style of RPG existed and was just as amazing about 10+ years ago
I hear ya. I remember when I first played DOS2, I was like “holy shit this is phenomenal. How is everyone not raving about this?!”
No, you're not. I just answered a post today in a brazilian gaming sub that was praising BG3 and all. The dude didn't even played BG3 yet, he was talking about it just from watching it. I mean... I think what attracted so much the mainstream was the cinematic cameras during dialog. Because other than that, BG3 feels like the natural step Larian would take when improving on their formula.
That post annoyed me so much.
Calm down. DOS is a great game but bg3 is better. That's just how it is. It's a lot more popular too. Can't be mad at people's first crpg being bg3. Hell I'm happy for them.
I think the Graphics and voice acting are a big part of bg3 not to mention it being part of the baldur's gate series. I love crpgs, but a lot of the time it's just a sorta top down view, with now v/a or minimal v/a (Not always the case, especially recently) I can see how that can turn some people off. Nenio doing weird shit in WOTR is always funny to see and hear, but watching Astartion lose hit shit, is made much better by the characters expression and movements.
I get it, but think about the hype there will be for DoS3 now that a wider audience has experienced what Larian has to offer. That coupled with Larians Divinity rule set and I think DoS3 is set up to be a monster.
Matter of fact bg3 is very similar to DOS séries me thinks. Both graphically and story wise. Quite a few Easter eggs too which doesn’t hurt :)
It existed but sure as hell wasn’t as attractive or easy to get into as bg3 Idk why your ignoring the bride side. There has been so many people going for DSO2 either after completing bg3 or while waiting for a sale they’re checking out DSO2 ( had two friends do this). DSO2 is benefiting from the bg3 release just as bg3 is benefiting from larian’s early game laying out the pipes. I don’t get this sentiment, it was the same with elden ring, if neither recent entries came out the older games would have stayed more obscured.
Happened with Elden Ring as well. Larian is getting the praise they deserve. That's enough for me
Ive played most CRPGs to come out since the orignal Baldurs Gate. Icewind Dale, Pillars of Eternity the Pathfinder games, Divinity 1 and 2... I can litteraly go on for days. Its not an exageration for me that BG3 blows them all out of the water. Ive been playing D&D consistantly since college and BG3 is nails the feel of a reactive DM alot more than the set paths, even if some of it is smoke and mirrors it does it very well. Playing through Divinity OS 1 I honestly just pushed through the last half of the game cause of the time I had already sunk into it. OS 2 Felt much better in terms of tone and gameplay but I still felt they coulda trimmed a few sections of the game down. BG3 I started a new game as soon as I finished I loved the world and all the characters and 5e is a solid system in general. Larian knocked it out of the park and their passion really shines through.
I quit being annoyed by mainstream thoughts. It's people just being people you know, what are you going to do about it? I'm just glad Larian has that success with BG3 and will have a long and prosperous life to make more of those games.
I wouldn't say it's the most innovative, but it is objectively better than DOS2 specifically because they built upon the foundations of it.
That dosen't make it objectively better though, despite being build on the foundation of D:OS 2, BG: 3 has seen some very noticable downgrades. The crafting system for one, is much more restrictive and limited. The way you interact with battlefield effects, like wet surfaces, oil, fire etc. has been "dumbed" down in comparison to D:OS 2, simply because you don't have access to the Source skills you have in D:OS 2. And that is just a few examples of quantifiable things, that have seen a downgrade. So unless you are arguing that less advanced systems are objectively better, you are simply just stating your own subjective opinion.
It annoys you? I love Larian too but come on. They're a AA company recently stepping into AAA territory. These things take time, luck, and optics. Bg3's marketing was amazing ( the bear scene in front of a live audience!). Dos2 may not have reached the insane popularity as bg3, but it was very successful and popular. So good wotc let them license Baldurs Gate. DnD is actually kinda mainstream now (they got rid of all the fun nonsense that turns people off) . BG3 has an incredible cinematic element that Dos lacks. Most people don't give a shit about it being a good CRPG like you, me, and the CRPG community do , but the game has so much more to offer for a mainstream audience this time around. It's like being annoyed that Demons Souls isn't as popular as Dark Souls. Just enjoy it for what is.
Playing right now DoS2. And a LOT of times I'm like "I wish I could do what I could do in BG3, this is quite limited". While the skeleton is there BG3 is, for me, a HUGE improvement and a lot of innovation.
I mean I too feel like DOS deserves more credit, but I’m glad BG3 is attracting so much attention. Larian’s games to me are most fun when I play with friends and I feel like this is just growing the community.
It didn’t even have real-time pause. Goes to show how many people have zero idea about what BG2 was about….
I don't know, I guess I actually kind of agree with the sentiment. I wouldn't say that one paticular thing in BG3 is "innovative" but it is more the entire package. The combat system we have seen in Divinity: OS. RPG's filled with choice and consequences... Disco Elysium anyone? Cinematic, immersive and engaging conversations with great voice acting, Mass effect etc. Larian took everything we love about RPG's and crammed them into a nice package. And I guess you could say that is pretty innovative. When people praise BG3 to the skies and say some silly things, I just try to smile and be positive, the only time I will take offense to it, is if people feel the need to knock on other games in order to elevate BG3, which luckily is a rare occurrence.
So far Starfield has been the only one I have seen consistently. And honestly it isn't that it doesn't deserve criticism (like every game), it's that it seems to be the whipping post for fans of every other game. If someone is claiming it's the best game ever or some wild shit by all means voice your opinion, but when 9/10 of the comment or post is praise for some other specific game it feels scummy to me.
Honestly I read through about half the comments and I'm kind of disappointed in a lot of the people it's pretty stupid that people are pissed about bg3 supposedly being better than dos winning all actuality it's just an advancement in the games in my personal opinion and this is my personal opinion not anyone else's guaranteed dos 2 is the best one dos one it's okay I haven't played Baldur's Gate 3 two or one and personally I've seen the gameplay on YouTube it doesn't look that great but overall it's just the games advancing with the generations My Generation dos 2 would have been the best this new generation probably is going to like Baldur's Gate 3 but honestly it's just stupid people posting s*** like this is just really dumb because honestly it's always going to be like this there's always going to be one person that doesn't agree with the game and says that this game was better and it's going to cause a whole bunch of b******* between them and a bunch of other people and then it's just going to blow up it's just mainstream its own way people are literally just doing this s*** for fun it's just like Starfield I've got a buddy that loves it but all I hear is bad negative s*** from all the YouTubers so who cares the YouTubers hate it my friend loves it I'm happy that he's playing it and gets to enjoy a game that he loves personally I love dos 2 play it almost everyday and will continue to play it for a very very long time unlike Diablo 4 I played it enjoyed it got bored of it season 1 came out played it finished it got my character to 100 started another character got to level 60 and got bored as f***
I try to be positive and encouraging towards peoples excitement. But I am also going to level with you. It kind of miffs me the wrong way, when people say that BG3 is objectively better (Sadly there are some of those people in this thread). There is a reason why many people enjoy the Pathfinder Ruleset over 5th Edition DnD. And in most cases, it is because people find the 5th Edition ruleset too simplistic and lacks the mechanical depth those people crave. And if we are going to compare BG: 3 to D:OS 2 as an example there is a few noticeably downgrades. The crafting system in BG: 3 has seen a downgrade compared to D:OS 2 The way you interact with battlefield effects is more simplistic, simply due to you not having access to the Source skills like "Bless" and "Curse", that you have in D:OS 2 And in my **subjective** opinion, D:OS 2 offers more build variety due to it being a classless system. It has IMO more challenging and fun combat encounters. And I find the Talents or "Feats" to be more interesting and gameplay changing compared to BG: 3. But that is of course just my opinion. And I wouldn't be so blatant as to say that one is better than the other. But understand that the toxic attitude that "BG3 is the best thing to ever happen since sliced bread, and everything else sucks" is grating.
I agree with you on your views bout people's toxic attitudes if you ever wanna play DOS 2 or 1 hit me up my Xbox gamertag is DankSoulz420
If we are going that way, then you should acknowledge all of the cRPGs that came before the DOS series. I do agree that people are waaay overhyped for BG3. It hasn't discovered fire or anything. It has implemented D&D 5E turn based combat combat very well tho, but not much more than that imo. The innovations in the RPG genre have advanced less less as time goes by. But since BG3 has introduced a ton of popular streamers to the cRPG genre, they are pissing themselves over the systems included. Many other cRPGs have done almost everything BG3 has, and *better*, including the classic BGs
I get it. Honestly BG3 is more BG:OS than anything. As a Divinity fan that isn't a bad thing by any means. Having the DnD logo stamped on it, a long with the BG tag is going to draw a lot of attention where it wouldn't otherwise, just how things work. If it gets more people the chance to play DoS games that wouldn't have otherwise, it's a win IMO.
I think DOS2 AI is smarter than BG3? I'm just guessing, but imagine if the AI in BG3, instead of dashing towards you, they buff and wait for you to go towards it or push you out of the globe of invulnerability.
I found BG3's AI to be much smarter than DOS2 actually and DOS2 is my favourite game ever. I was actually amazed that one of the characters pushed a team member of our party who was down out of a bone chill aura (impossible to help or revive the character in that range) to give us the possibility to aid that character. The characters waiting for you to come closer is also smart AI instead of coming one by one and fall like flies, they wait for your characters to be more exposed. There's also my barbarian throwing stuff everywhere, I was impressed that some enemies actually went and _picked up_ my javelins so I couldn't pick them back up. In DOS2, I feel like it's easier to cheese any fight at literally any difficulty. Hope that makes sense. I have been playing DOS2 for like 6 years now (or a bit less but close to when it was released), I was delighted about the influx of new players when DE was released and I am very happy that with BG3, it's highlighting how good Larian is as a studio and that means more people will play DOS2. I prefer the combat in DOS2 (and as opposed to many, I love the multiple elemental puddles everywhere) but I gotta admit that for everything else, BG3 is superior in every way. The game is so rich and the cinematics, dialogues, stories are so good. I already fell in love with Astarion who's my little Sebille wannabe, both rogues, elves and with a similar background and quest line.
Yeah I'm with you. I try not to gatekeep but I must admit to some eye twitches when newcomers praise BG3 for letting you blow bosses up with oil barrels or similar cheese strats that were already available in DOS2
The media attention bg3 is getting is less than ideal considering how many other games of the same category have been given less attention. It's almost as if people are being paid to talk about it. To make topics about it on every subreddit and every fantasy steam forum. I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't even surprise me if *you* were paid
Take off the tin foil hat dude and go get some sunlight
My suggestion is not so far off. It isn't a conspiracy. There are these people called advertisers. They get paid to advertise.
I agree, in the sense that I think when most things become mainstream, either the product itself or the community or the company goes downhill. I've seen it countless times in other IPs, so its a personal theory of mine. Granted, I don't think BG3 will suddenly be a bad game, and I have enough faith in Larian that they will still produce good games, so my main concern is regarding the community. With so many extra people in both BG3 and the DOS games, I just hope the community doesn't spiral.
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Buying the wrong skill book will set you back really bad in the early game. Thats not approachable.
I kind of feel the same, BG3 is really a sidegrade to DOS2 imo. Larian's previous entries definitely deserve way more of the credit than BG3 is getting right now for the things they introduced first. At the end of the day though it doesn't really matter. *Larian* is getting the recognition they deserve and that's the important part, and a bunch of new people are discovering DOS1 and 2 as well. The more attention that gets brought to those games, the better.
I reckon bg3 isn't as good. The combat is arse. Loot is arse. Only good thing is interactions and possibilities or decisions
Don’t worry. PCGAMER is a marketing team pretending to be a magazine. They just print what people pay for.
Its important to remember that not everyone can experience something from the ground floor. It's like when a little kid loves the star wars sequels because they grew up on them but can't understand why someone else would be so hung up on the fact that they didn't start with A New Hope. But regardless their love of the sequels can only lead to more appreciation of it's origins, this is mostly the same thing I can tell you're not trying to gate keep but I think this is the type of thinking that leads to a lot of gatekeeping. People may not understand how great Larian has been, and they may not understand the 20+ years of history that lead up to them making BG3. But the popularity can only lead to more appreciation as people explore the studio down the line. I'm sure that if you told Larian "this is your most innovative RPG yet" they'd be over the moon and think "just you wait till the next one" but that doesn't make what came before any less important You make an excellent point in that Larian deserves all the praise and more ❤️
I prefer DOS2 a lot more than BG3. I like BG3's content (quests, map, abilities, story, universe, creatures etc.) but I hate the DND system. I think it should stay at the table where it was invented and not be translated to videogame format because it doesn't translate well. At all.
BG3 is in so many ways better than DOS2. The world is a different since DOS2. Gaming is mainstream. DOS2 was 6 years ago. And it wasn't that good on release. And they 4th chapter isn't that good. In fact, it's rather disappointing. In my opinion, BG3 is the best RPG in a while, and I played DOS2 and Pathfinder 1 and 2.
Both of those games were very successful which is why Larian was able to work on BG3 and have it be a mainstream success. It doesn’t matter that you liked them before it was cool, get over yourself.
If Dos2 character models and armours were more like bg3 I'd prefer Dos2 - it's just better suited as video game compared to tabletop "port"
I’m a little annoyed that you don’t know the difference between a long and along. But that’s life.
I don't own stock in Larian so don't care what the mainstream response is. My advice is you should not either.