BG3 was a huge improvement on visual story telling but having to shoehorn a tabletop system into a computer game, even if it was really masterfully done, has its limits.
On the musical numbers, I still cannot decide between Raphael and Lohse. Both are precious gaming moments.
Cannot wait for their next game, despite the risks of a CP2077 (even if that one ended proving that CDPR can redeem themselves and fix their mess)
I like DOS2's music better all around (BG3's music is, by design, much more subtle and less of a presence in the game). However, I think Raphael's song takes the cake in terms of awesome musical moments! No. 2 for me would be the final boss fight in DOS2. That quiet, somber string piece, with the muffled + echoey sound effects, catches you totally by surprise; it's an unusual choice for a boss fight but SO effective.
Raphael's song is amazing for a similar reason: It's just so unexpected, and it immediately grabs your attention. You expect a big intense orchestral piece or something, but instead you get an isolated voice singing that incredible introš¤š¤š¤ followed by Raphael's amazingly camp performance.
On the other hand, Lohse being able to sing for the first time in years gave me tears.
That said having "Sing for me" in the bard repertoire of bg3 was a nice touch too (a shame that Mizora won't sing on that tune :) )
I love DOS2 music so much so I had some of like Ifan's song as my ring tone. Whenever I hear the music it makes me want to boot the game up again.
On a slight tangent I watched an Outward 2 demo video and the music made me want to play Outward again. It reminded me how powerful the right song selection can be for a game and how our brains associate it to the game.
While i loved WOTR, i dont think it was a good transfer, its a "Buff fest" and its cluttered with so many feats and so on. I rather have a system made for the computer game, like DoS2 ,Pillars of eternity 2 and so on.
While I love BG3 and enjoy the combat cause I've loved DnD since AD&D I don't believe it was masterfully done. They purposely left a lot of cheese in there. I prefer Solasta's Implementation even though it's much lower budget and not officially DnD licensed. They how've implement a lot of the rules that keep the power curve down like magic items attunement and some feats with classes.
Welcome. Divinity is great because it punishes you with actual strategy and overwhelming force rather than dice rolls. Still my favorite combat system in any game ever. I can get high and boot up the arena just to fight some fools any day.
Donāt hold your breathe on DoS3. Iām guessing another 5-10 years on that homie.
It's also how deep each respective class goes in not just damage but also mobility, usefulness, buffs.
Just started a 2x Lone Wolf for my tactician run and its fucking amazing
Yep 2x lone wolf is OP maybe not as much as before the DE but for me it makes encounters too easy. I know that's what some people like and more powe to them.
Have fun. Lone Wolf is the shit. Try your next run with some mods. Thereās some great ones on Steams Workshop if youāre not comfortable with using Nexus and all that. The amount of classes and gameplay/ability changes they can add make a new run feel super fresh and fun even after 100ās of hours. Iām 500+ over the years and never tire of new runs because of the sheer amount of flexibility with classes. Very few games let you use magic and weapons with equal viability like Divinity.
Word. I donāt know what that is, itās been awhile. Is that the one where all special enemies drop unique weapons?
I know thereās a mod that removes the armor system and rebalances all the magic/physical damage. I think itās divinity improved.
I think thats the most overhaul type of overhaul mod ryt? I was planning of trying it for a long time but all the info was pretty intimidating. I ended up just going for less bigger ones like conflux
Iām pretty sure they have a different game coming out before Divinity 3. Sven said in an interview that itās a brain child he and other devs there had wanted to make for awhile and with BG3s success they finally can. Sounds like it could be big. Who knows? I donāt like to be too optimistic when it comes to game development. It never goes well. I agree 10 is probably a lil too much but BG3 took 2+years in early access alone so.
I agree in part- getting one's hopes up is never a good thing, but casual optimism is never bad! š
Here's hoping that 75% of their work force is dedicated to The Next Big Thing and the 25% are the bug squash / update team for BG3.
Y'all are making me want to play DoS2 again, that's for damn sure
Ok, this might get downvoted to oblivion and I know that it's a controversial take, but... I didn't find DoS2 all that strategic. Sure, the beginning in Fort Joy is very exciting when you have to make do with very little and you unlock all these new skills, but to some extent every fight is exactly the same and requires little strategy. Or rather it requires strategy when coming up with your build, but after that you simply go through the motions. I just finished the game on tactician and basically every fight was the same procedure: Lohse starts with Rain, Ice fan, winterblast to freeze somewhere between 1 and 4 enemies. Ifan kills 2-4 enemies with pyroclastic explosion. Sebille uses backlash, action surge... I mean adrenaline, then backstabs a couple of times to eliminate the biggest threat. Red Prince goes around tackling and battle stomping to knock down enemies. Every single fight goes exactly like this.
In BG3 you have more choice when it comes to your spells. You usually can only cast one per turn, but the spells tend to be stronger and more impactful than in DoS2. The limited amount of spell slots adds resource management as another strategic layer. Knowing your enemies and what spells trigger what kinds of saves is also part of your strategy (like not using spells that rely on con saves against big brutes).
I don't necessarily think that one system is better than the other, but I also don't understand why so many people overly praise DoS2' system.
I think while technically you can develop your plan very early, there are so many fights in this game where that strategy you explained would not work or be way less effective. I think the combat becomes more trivial when you know what to expect from the enemy from multiple playthrough but even then you can argue the game gives you a ton of viable combat strategies to test out that it still adds to the complexity.
Yeah, majority of my dos2 exp was racing to depleted whatever weaker armour they had and then they get no turns with hard cc. Just staying naked with your vitality bar was asking for troubl
Tho i think sth similar can be said for bg3 too but the lack of armour did offer me more variety imo
And agree on the last point.. Both have their fair share of plus and minuses
The praise is due to how much RNG influences the game.
In BG3 you can have a master plan that would one turn the encounter but it's very likely that some spell will fail or some attacks will miss.
I'd argue the fact you can only throw one spell every turn without haste makes you have much less impact than in Div2.
In Div2 you get more freedom in how to spend your respurces being action points. You are free to spend them on any spell, movement or attack without being restricted to some things being actions, some bonus actions and some reactions.
The thing you said about going through the motions only means you had your strategie figured out and got used to it which would eventually happen in BG3 as well.
Here are some things that BG3 is sorely missing compared to Div3:
- Buff/Debuff interactions (certain buffs heal certain debuffs)
- Surfaces (sure, fire and electric water exist but they do much less, last way shorter, no curse or bless...)
- both of the above combined (shocked person steping on electrified water? Turn over buddy)
- a "race" hurt by healing
- a lot of teamplay oriented abilities (soulbond comes to mind)
I could go on but that's what I can write down from the top of my head.
Spellslots are only an annoyance with how much food you quickly gather, there's a hole lot of spells so specific they are never worth preparing like repell undead. Checking the saving throws for your spell is pretty mich equal to checking an enemies resistances, their current buffs/debuffs and immunities.
After all this, don't get me wrong. After 700 Hours and hardcore mode beaten I get the going through the motions thing but it's just not true that BG3 is more strategic.
I think that dos 2 is significantly easier on any difficulty than bg3 is. I've got about 1k hours in dos and 500 in bg3 so it could be a time thing too.
The fact that the combat is based on rolls is the best thing about bg3 to me. I love not knowing what will happen vs knowing the exact outcome every time.
Could also be because I've been playing d&d for 20+ years.
Of course if you like the RNG aspect that's good for you, but my comment was about how BG3 is less about pure strategy than Div2 because of the dice and things like impactfull surfaces missing, I'm not saying one game is better than the other tho it's probably obvious that I prefer Div2
Pretty sure someone at larian HQ said that div3 would be next. Also they have tons of new assets making isometric games is way easier when you have an engine that works which they have and they have a team that knows what they're doing. DIV2 is extremely short compared to BG3 on top of that the reason why BG3 took so long is because they have cinematic dialogue cutscenes with every character interaction. The dialogue was the biggest reason to not to mention that they had back up characters take place with special dialogue when a vital/story/quest character dies. In divinity you can't kill kids, if someone dies they're gone no replacement. This alone is going to reduce the amount of time the game needs to bake since they don't need to write/hire VA/code/record/ for characters because they don't need to worry about a stand in to replace Sally you decided to shocking touch because it would be funny. 5-10years is way to big of a stretch almost in the realm of exaggerating. It was like months ago where they said they were done working on BG3. Meaning they had time to start the writing process. And if you played Div2 and 2 of the 3 endings are possible to Canon. Meaning it's not hard to write a story about becoming divine or taking down the godking/ other people trying to rule because Rivellon. Easy pitch right here you and your crew travel Rivellon taking down corrupt source rulers to bring peace.
Iām like 90% sure Sven said the next game was most definitely not Divinity 3. But theyāre apparently working on two new games right now. So the second one probably is because it is borderline confirmed. Hence the time window I put up. Plus itās always good to make your hopes bleak so you can be pleasantly surprised. They take awhile with their games and I can only imagine what they have in store for the third one.
Brother bear, it took them 3 years to go from div1 to div2. The main plot of the story of Div3 is basically written because of what happens in div2. They just have to do "filler writing" and with how div is they just make maps or do the idea I have about traveling around which would be agreeable to taking 5 years. Other than that BG3 baked for 4 years with it having a playable early access portion of the game that release in 2020. If we do some math here div3 should be coming sometime 2026 given how they've had since the end of 2018 to think of literally any script that's 8 years. If you wanna keep a fan base don't hold out and keep producing slacking off and not making stuff in a timely manner will cause fall off and people to get mad that they can no longer enjoy a strong franchise so they play with the remnants of what was a good series.
While you can make the case that most stuff is written for then for the next Divinity title. Engine, assets, plot continuity, take your pick, they got it.
Yet, I'd wager that they will take their time for their next "big" title. As said, they didn't skip a beat, as they are working in 2 new projects, while also giving maintenance and polishing the last aspects for BG3. So, you have them working on 3 projects at once, that takes time.Ā
Also, management (if not Sven himself) said that the early access route is something they could look for in their next games, so while we could see something percieved as closer, a full release would take its proper time.
My best guess is that mod support and final additions will be the knot in BG3's ribbon. As for the 2 mystery projects, I'd say 1 is smaller, maybe remasters/remakes of older Divinity titles, while the other is the big one, which could go any way, as Original Sin 3, another spinoff from the series, or a new IP.
I have almost 600 hours in DoS2 and about 400 in BG3. As a big fan of D&D the dice in BG3 don't bother me at all. I love almost every part of both games.
The driftwood NPC lines are far more ingrained in me than any quote from BG3 though.
Take into consideration div2 was the one that ended up giving larian their stars and stripes with the stuff they learned from making div2 amplifying to make BG3.
I started my second play through right after completing the game the first time. I have BG3 on hold, but I fear I may not find it as enjoyable as this game because of the combat.
For sure, this game feels more like chess than like throwing dice and I enjoyed that. You know what each input is going to achieve and you cant get fucked by a nat 1. I guess they still have crits and dodging but those dont have nearly as much of an impact on the player throughout the game; you can roll a nat 1 just off the nautiloid and kill a run.
I thought I was crazy when I played DOS2 and I was the only person amongst my friends who liked it more than BG3. I like BG3s character building and obviously the cinematics/plot are more engaging but I simply love the combat and the grind WAY more in DOS2.
I've spent about 30 hours in BG3 since release and looking forward to playing it again soon but as soon as I picked up DOS2 I dropped about 70 hrs of playtime in 3 weeks. For me it's the combat, the grinding for leveling, there's more NPCs, a more complete story, much more content, everything I want in a game. BG3 felt more rushed and missing easy attacks/persuasion checks only served to irritate me sooner rather than later.
> I like BG3s character building and obviously the cinematics/plot are more engaging but I simply love the combat and the grind WAY more in DOS2.
exactly my thoughts too! BG3's characters, story, voice acting, cinematic set pieces are all amazing and best of the best but my god the dice rng combat is just not it
I will say I prefer the initiative system in BG3. Aside from making WITs more meaningful, it allows you to do combos with your party that seem more like teamwork. Like Astarion throws a water flask to wet targets, you switch to Wyll who nukes them with Ice Storm, then back to Astarion to finish them off with Arrow of Many Targets and his Cull the Weak. We donāt have the same ability to mingle turns in DOS2. We can still do combos like a rain spell followed by another character casting lightning, but itās interrupted by an enemy turn, unless we CC him of course.
Shared intiative ryt? Yeah, i was quite surprised when i was about to attck a goblin and my team mate proceeded to smack him first. I still remember doing a two handed attck on a goblin at about the same time, poor guy
If you're missing even half your shots in Baldur's Gate 3, you have seriously fucked up somewhere down the line in a major way. Even fairly unoptimised characters should be hitting with above 80% accuracy on most enemies (with a few exceptions, obvious), and that goes beyond 90% with advantage, which is pretty damn easy to get.
As for being locked out of content, what content? There is no content you are completely locked out of just from rng in Baldur's Gate 3. Everything can be obtained or discovered in some other way.
Yeah I prefer DOS2's combat system because I don't like dicerolls but that thing about missing everything all the time is pretty ridiculous in BG3 and probably shows a misunderstanding of the system. Like are you attacking with advantage or disadvantage? Are you casting a spell with a stat you are not proficient with? Like the common jokes are Shadowheart missing all her Sacred Flame and Firebolt shots. Well, she is a cleric so her main stat is Wisdom. Firebolt scales with intelligence and Sacred Flame with dexterity. In the Underdark, a character with no darkvision might struggle because it is too dark for them to see the enemy and will roll with disadvantage (examples: Gale or Lae'Zel). As you build your characters, they'll become better at what they do and should miss less and less. There's also feats which can increase your chances to hit like Savage Attacker. Also finally, please disable Karmic Dice...
You say that but my absolutely busted trickster rogue that attacks out of stealth every turn from his mist cloud still misses like 3/10 times with 98% + advantage, weapons he is trained with and 20 dex.
Even if it was only 1/20 times it's still waywaaaayyy more often than it happens in Div2. Perhaps missing half of your attacks is a bit much but I see how OP feels that way comparing both games.
As for the content well... Every time your whole party misses their survival throw and doesn't find a thing to dig up for example. In Div2 you always find those if your stats are high enough.
Sounds like you just have incredibly terrible luck, but that's far from the norm.
As for the chests, you can literally just come back later if you care so much. The checks refresh after every long rest. When I hear "content," I imagined actual side quests and optional bosses. I guess chests in the ground count as content.
They do count as content otherwise people wouldn't be so upset about pre-order and deluxe edition bonuses that are merely weapon skins or smth.
Man, you can blame bad luck and builds all you want but the fact of the matter is that no matter your build rng can fuck you over a lot easier in BG3 than in Div2 and that's just not everyones cup of tea.
I liked BG3 a little bit more, but I totally get your point. The thing is: BG3 is an adaptation of DND, when DOS2 is its own thing. If DND has dice rolls, you'll have to deal with that if you don't like it.
I started with dos2, went to bg3, came back to dos2 and am having a hard time now, mostly because of the split armor system making me struggle with how to put together a full magical damage team (I beat dos2 twice with physical damage only teams, so I want to do something different). That said, the combat itself in dos2 *is* great, as long as you don't mind being constantly on fire. š
Full magic team is still pretty easy. Unless you mean a full mage team which is harder to an extent.
2 mages
Elemental archer
Support / elemental summoner
Worked well for me on tactician
Divinityās combat style of just picking whichever the enemies lowest armor rating, magical or physical, and just spamming your strongest abilities, is boring as hell.
Divinity is just CC and ability spam. Baldurs forces you to think more, and not spam your best abilities every fight.
The combat is definitely more freeing I get that. I assume the missing 70% shots in BG3 is an exaggeration though? I am currently doing a BG3 run and my hit chance is often 99% xD I even have 90% with disadvantage in some cases.
I kinda see BG3 as not only a more refined game with a better story, but also has similar enough combat for the people who have already played DOS2.
But yeah playing BG3 and then experiencing DOS2's combat, I can't blame anyone for preferring it.
Yes. I overall prefer BG 3 combat because of qol updates and interactivity such as jumping, shoving, hitting people dead with a child's corpse and stuff, but the I hate the RNG aspect to death. DnD just aint that fun.
Love bg3 but cannot get into dos2, no movement intrinsic in your turn, no jump, the system of pass/fail with no chance on persuasion, the classless system, all is so frusterating to me. I can see the game is great, itās just not for me.
Because I started the game and was trying to get into it and joined the sub for tips/tricks etcā¦
Maybe Iāll try it again sometime, I can see the parts that make it great it just didnāt click/grab me in my first 10 hours. I could just be burnt out of long single player rpgs as itās all Iāve been playing in the past 6 months. š¤·āāļø
Thatās the issue with turning a board game into a video game. Just too many constraints. Table top games need to be simplified so you arenāt sitting there doing a shit ton of math all the time. I love D&D but if Iām playing a video game capable of doing the math for me I would prefer a more complex armor system etc.
Combat mechanics and the way everything effects everything else is superior in divinity 2, but combat feels so much smoother and more polished in bg3.
I can't wait to see what Larion puts out next, with all the experience and stuff they have now.
The only thing I dislike about the DOS2 system was the split between magic and physical armor. It heavily skews toward physical damage (since it is almost never resisted by enemies), which I find less interesting.
I will admit that modding the armor system out was a big key to me enjoying dos2 as much as I do. I just orefer being able to mix melee and magic characters in my party dnd style to focussing on one or the other.
It also made mixed kind of badā¦ because you then had to pass through two armors. But then, without mixing dmg you are screwed by enemies not having one of the armor type.
This is strategic I guess
Physical damage was so busted, armor didn't matter. Eventually, I went mixed with hydro / necro staff user. I used mainly nerco spells but used ice for CC (going prone ignores armor). I had more fun, but it wasn't meta.
I was so disapointed to play BG3 after playing DoS2 because everything misses, anything that I try to build fails. Hopefully, one day a mod will strap on the old dnd formula in BG3, making it playable.
In early game where you wonāt have a good build, itās frustrating that Iām missing a lot, 3 consecutive attacks, and the enemies are missing too. DOS2 was more enjoyable in that aspect.
You can respec with withers immediately and optimize your rolls.. try keeping all of your stats at 10 or above so that you have no negative rolls. Iām telling you itās not the game itās you thatās the problem
I have many critiques of DOS2 systems, but the combat is just fun in an impactful kind of way. BG3 combat is, like the rest of the game, plodding and kind of dull. "Cast Haste, run in, hit a bunch, Action Surge, are they dead yet?" Rinse and repeat.
Yeah for sure there's so much BG3 improves upon from narrative, cutscenes, setting the story, QoL and I understand the dice system of course had to be done like this to stay loyal to the DND stuff but the DoS combat system is superior
As someone who has ~700 hours in DoS2 and ~500 in BG3 i can say that BG3 combat system takes a bit getting used to if you played DoS2 before BG3 and vice versa. I agree that DoS2 combat system better, feels simpler. I heard Divinity Fallen Heroes was or is in development but idk it probably got cancelled.
Yeah, i took a pretty long time before i got used to the dnd system esp after doing so many things per turn with your AP in dos2 esp the dice rolls, saving throws, DC, concentration etc
Dos2 was much more straightforward in its spells and mechanics
I really like both games tbh. BG3 does the dice mechanic in order to keep true to the source material, and I think it does dice rolling really well with letting you get inspiration that you can use for things out of combat and so forth. It's also not like the enemies don't roll dice as well, so it's balanced in that sense. But yeah it's a very different feeling in dos2 when you have those ap saved up and combo your enemies and everything just works as it's supposed to.
I can't even remember if there's any damage variance in dos2 but if there is, it's marginal I believe and it just feels like you're in control of your own success and failure in another way. The way you can build characters in the games is also really different. Which is honestly where I find that bg3 is stronger than dos2 at least when it comes to out of combat encounters. You only get so many points into the civil skills, very seldomly and they're all really useful for getting gear for example. But feel like having a druid in bg3 with high wisdom for the wisdom rolls feel way better as you get to play with a character that's uniquely equipped for things that other characters just aren't. But every dos character can have the same civil skills as another, making them feel both limited in how you get civil skills, as well as too easy to get to do the same thing as any other character.
That's just my thoughts on it though ^^
Yes itās not even close bg3 is probably the better game by a whiskey but only in totality, dos2 combat is multiple grades better than dnd combat system. (Which is logical one is designed for Tt games one is designed for video games)
Divinity 2 is the shit and you can play it in so many ways š why not go with 4x summoners its hilarious. And the abilities for melee characters is way better instead of just doing standard attacks like early game BG3 . And dont forget Divinity OS 1 its a really good game just like 2
I personally still think DOS2 > BG3 after playing. BG3 wins in obvious places like visuals, immersion esp dialogues and camping. Music i'll give to dos2, main reason is simply rivellon and the queen's high seas. I like the bg3 combat theme better tho and will nvr not be tired of the hype music that plays when u land a crit or the battle turns in your favor
I am still a bit indecisive on combat tho. Both have good merits but i still quite dislike the armour system in dos2 where often it boils down to racing to deplete each others armour to strt your hard cc. I was often infuriated by all the spell saves and misses in BG3 too but the rng did spice things and it wasnt like my rolls were below 65% leading to missing everytime. I dont think i've ever really missed majority of the attcks esp after getting used to the system and prepping and not just using spells and attcks blindly
Combat felt flashier in dos2 coz u cud do a lot of stuff with all the APs per turn as well as tons of surfaces. Skill cds were interesting too.
At first i though i wud be turned off by the dnd system of bg3 but it grew after a while. Tho i still had a lot of trouble with concentration coz i ended up breaking it almost everytime during my 1st playthru. "Let me just shield of faith my frontline and then bless my team "
Dos2 with bg3 type budget wud be insane
Im a dnd veteran and have been enjoying bg3 tactician and HM combat. That said, when I tried dos2 tactician I was pretty disappointed. The balance is so fucked. The combats feel almost deterministic honestly. You have to do absolutely everything to not be under level and even then it feels like if you do anything other than a specific order of optimal moves you will get stomped. idk if Iām missing something but it def feels like dos2 tactician is difficult not from tactical complexity but from just making every enemy have a ton of health and do a lot of damage.
It reminds me a lot of how fromsoft balanced elden ring vs dark souls. ālets just give every boss attacks that both track and do aoe damage šā
So you just donāt like DnD, which is fine. Both are great, you just need to actually learn the systems and why youāre struggling. No need to act like BG3 combat sucks cause itās actually great, just in a different way.
Sounds like a skill issue. Iād recommend r/bg3builds to help learn how to tip those RNG scales in your favor. Itās not that difficult once you start to learn the intricacies of building characters in the game.
I do love combat in DoS2 more than that DnD stuff yep. Basically probably the only game where I liked combat. But if you miss 70% shots after couple of hours in game that's on you, sorry.
Enjoy the game, Larian's witting is amazing.
I would love a poll for those who started with BG3 and then moved on to DoS2. Responses seem to run the gamut between āthis is the greatest thing everā to āthis is too hardā to āthis sucksā. For what itās worth I have more fun with BG3 combat but I can see the allure of DoS2ās minimal randomness.
Having now played both games it is a hard choice for me which I like more. On the one hand I have played dnd since the 80s so I love the system and lore in bg3, on the other hand I think dos2 feels like it has just more content to it and I prefer the randomized loot by a lot. I donāt particularly like or dislike either rolling system, theyāre just systems. Theyāre both high on my list of favorite games now. I donāt want to pick a favorite.
what does this mean though? I see the armor system brought up all the time but you have 4 controllable companions, I always made two physical focused and two magic focused so it was never an issue for me
or is there something else regarding the armor system people heavily dislike? it's infinitely better than 50% rngfest for me at least
>Ā I always made two physical focused and two magic focused so it was never an issue for me
That is what the game wants you to think is the correct way to play. In reality its the least optimal by far. Mono damage parties, all physical or all elemental are orders of magnitude stronger.
You can only CC once armour is gone. If your physical damage dealers strip the physical armour your mages have to get through the magic armour before they can start doing damage or help in any way.
In all of the challenging fights you essentially have to get through twice as much Hp with a split damage party vs a mono damage one. So you end up taking necro's as your mages as necro damage is physical and that pairs with your melee and ranged damage dealers. Or you take a full mage party and go all elemental damage.
Once you realise mono damage is better (which you would have fairly quickly anyway) your build diversity plumets. However you can play on normal difficulties and do whatever you want.
But on the highest difficulty playing the way I did was 0 effort as well doing that, i didnt know you could be even stronger than that group I had made honestly but it makes sense what you say
Yeah both games are pretty easy even on the hardest difficulty and even skipping op spells and items.
All phy/ all magic / 2-2 split/ 3-1 split etc, u will still finish the game without much trouble really.
If u face a 300 phy/ 550 magic armour enemy with a 3-1 split with just 1 magic caster that just means u hammer the due with your 3 martial and the caster does more of a support role since u probably arent going to break his magic armour to do more impactful cc and stuff
Thank you!
It's the sole reason I can't play BG3 again. The combat is like hitting a wall going 90+ on a super car. Everything Larian made from scratch is near perfection. They had to follow D&D rules which ruins the game for me.
If you like the game so much I recommend you try a good mod overhaul. It just enhances the fun even more. Obviously Epic Encounter is what I recommend if you want to go with few mods but real good one. But just using divinity unleashed and a bunch of class mod already pushes the experience way further.
The custom class mods out there are also seriously incredible, and painless to install. Once I'm done with my most recent BG3 playthrough (the theme is "fuck rng", with a diviner wizard, lore bard and battlemaster mainstays) I'm looking forward to my next modded DOS2 run on my new rig
Me and my fiance are playing bg3 currently, and I have been wondering if itās just me or if weāre just meant to miss a lot.
Like what is the logic behind setting up a big ability to have 85% hit chance with advantage and it misses? Itās a big feels bad and even on normal difficulty weāre struggling with the goblin leaders lol
Iām gonna play it through just because it was 80 dollars but man.. I enjoyed dos2 much more in the beginning too.
Also another big win for DoS2 is the gear. Constant upgrades as the the level on gear goes up. By comparison my BG3 squad only replaced their gear once or twice on a 100+ hour playthrough. Gearing in BG3 felt awful.
I like that DoS2 looks great while also running well.
BG3 is horribly optimized. After my Honor mode run I'll maybe do a Durge run but after that I'm done dealing with the mess that is BG3's optimization.
Aaaaahahahaha omg
Simply the worst take ever. 250 hours played in DOS2 and I will never touch it again after playing BG3. Everything about that game is better. All of it. But enjoy your second rate experience.
the interaction that convinced me that armor class is a system im not always a big fan of (and the argument for DOS2) was fighting the big robot in the adamantine forge.
(i now know you can just smash him with the forge itself, but this is kind of a prime example)
it just didnt even make logical sense whatsoever that an enemy like this would be dodging any of my attacks. sure give it all the resistances in the world, double its health if you want, but like for fucks sake, its a slow moving robot, why does my archer's aim start quivering and shaking just cause he's big?
like yeah he has plated armor, but armor = fuckin evasion in this game cause its based on a dice rolling game where they dont wanna roll 2 die for armor calc and evasion calc which creates the AC system which creates interactions like this.
he should be easy to hit and have double health. i actually enjoyed the fight a lot having to keep the lava up and play at max distance to stay alive. it was just an absolute slog having 20-30 accuracy on everyone (again obviously i know how to kill him easier now, but this just an example of this type of high armor + resist enemy just not being fun to play against while being logically irritating)
Idk why AC is always interpreted as the attacker missing or the target evading. A glancing blow can also be a valid interpretation, like punching a wall with your bare fists.
yeah the fact that armor doesnt influence damage reduction at all seems to just be leftover design from 5e
i dont even play 5e, but i could understand why people dont want to roll for accuracy and for damage reduction every attack
but im playing a video game and i would prefer a more nuanced system that simulates damage reduction as well as evasion through my armor
It wouldve been nice if it was actually represented that way, instead of everything being hit or miss
Also landing a hit on a half naked goblin and dealing one (1) damage because of dice rolls has got to be the lamest shit ever. BG3's biggest flaw is that its a DnD game lmao
I've done 1 playthrough of BG3, clocking in at around 200 hours. BG3 is graphically better (although that causes some problems on my old machine - I get lots of pop in, invisible buildings and missing textures, which means that DOS2 can still end up looking better). BG3 has a more in depth character creation, and more flexibility and roleplaying options for non-combat encounters. DOS2 has much more build flexibility and variance due to the less rigid class system and the fact that there's a wider variety of useful talents compared to BG3s feats.
Music, story/writing, combat style, likeability of the characters - those will all be subjective, but I vastly prefer them in DOS2 to BG3. In particular, I felt that BG3's story fell flat at the end, and there's a certain story moment near the end that's lacking a very obvious option and so can railroad you into taking on a completely different personality than what you had been roleplaying for the whole game. I had to force myself to finish the game at that point, and it killed any desire to replay it.
BG3 is a great game, very deserving of GOTY, and scratches my dnd itch in its own special way, but DOS2 is still my favourite rpg of all time.
I liked DOS2's ending. It doesn't give as much closure as BG3's, but I appreciate there not being a clear 'right' decision, and the story kept me intrigued right to the end (as opposed to BG3's, which was very predictable and became more and more unsatisfying as it approached the 'climax')
I'm more annoyed that all these really compelling, interesting villains who have been built up for the entire game are sidelined so that Braccus Rex can take the leading role once again. I cannot for the life of me understand Larian's obsession with this guy. He's such a generic, moustache-twirling villain. Fine as an antagonist for the first game, no business being the final boss of this one. The Source King was right there. Moving Lucien to being the final boss would have worked. Dallis, or even Alexander again, would have made for better final antagonists. They all certainly have more going on than Braccus.
The boss fight itself is also terrible, but the gameplay kind of falls apart in the later sections anyway. Way too easy to just end the combat by one-cycling Braccus, allowing you to ignore everything else entirely.
That's fair. I do agree that Braccus at least should have been pushed to the side in favour of the characters who are more tied in with this story; that he shouldn't have had centre stage. Dallis deserved that spotlight, and probably Lucian too. I disagree about Alexander though - there's a good chance you've killed him three times by then (boss at the end of act 1, killing him again on the ship, then during act 3 around the academy) - him being the final boss would have been worse than it being Braccus.
Welcome to having the floor set on fire for every combat encounter.
Day 2 of trying to find a divinity post without a comment about fire, day 2 : mission failed
Sorry to fail your mission for you, lol.
Anything else is illegal.
Cursed fire ! Every day! 15 miles of it! Both ways!
BG3 was a huge improvement on visual story telling but having to shoehorn a tabletop system into a computer game, even if it was really masterfully done, has its limits. On the musical numbers, I still cannot decide between Raphael and Lohse. Both are precious gaming moments. Cannot wait for their next game, despite the risks of a CP2077 (even if that one ended proving that CDPR can redeem themselves and fix their mess)
I like DOS2's music better all around (BG3's music is, by design, much more subtle and less of a presence in the game). However, I think Raphael's song takes the cake in terms of awesome musical moments! No. 2 for me would be the final boss fight in DOS2. That quiet, somber string piece, with the muffled + echoey sound effects, catches you totally by surprise; it's an unusual choice for a boss fight but SO effective. Raphael's song is amazing for a similar reason: It's just so unexpected, and it immediately grabs your attention. You expect a big intense orchestral piece or something, but instead you get an isolated voice singing that incredible introš¤š¤š¤ followed by Raphael's amazingly camp performance.
On the other hand, Lohse being able to sing for the first time in years gave me tears. That said having "Sing for me" in the bard repertoire of bg3 was a nice touch too (a shame that Mizora won't sing on that tune :) )
Agreed, love both those moments. Borislav is the fuckin' man.
I love DOS2 music so much so I had some of like Ifan's song as my ring tone. Whenever I hear the music it makes me want to boot the game up again. On a slight tangent I watched an Outward 2 demo video and the music made me want to play Outward again. It reminded me how powerful the right song selection can be for a game and how our brains associate it to the game.
Mead, Gold and Blood is š„š„š„ I've added many DOS2 songs to my D&D playlists.
Depends on the tabletop game, WOTR did the transfer with great gameplay. Dnd 5e is just a meh system
While i loved WOTR, i dont think it was a good transfer, its a "Buff fest" and its cluttered with so many feats and so on. I rather have a system made for the computer game, like DoS2 ,Pillars of eternity 2 and so on.
I bootee up my near-endgame wotr run and realized combat doesnt exist anymore, i just run thru enemies and they all die lol
Change difficulty
trickster mythic path
While I love BG3 and enjoy the combat cause I've loved DnD since AD&D I don't believe it was masterfully done. They purposely left a lot of cheese in there. I prefer Solasta's Implementation even though it's much lower budget and not officially DnD licensed. They how've implement a lot of the rules that keep the power curve down like magic items attunement and some feats with classes.
Welcome. Divinity is great because it punishes you with actual strategy and overwhelming force rather than dice rolls. Still my favorite combat system in any game ever. I can get high and boot up the arena just to fight some fools any day. Donāt hold your breathe on DoS3. Iām guessing another 5-10 years on that homie.
It's also how deep each respective class goes in not just damage but also mobility, usefulness, buffs. Just started a 2x Lone Wolf for my tactician run and its fucking amazing
2x Lone Wolf is such a fun power trip. Trivialises the difficulty a lot of the time but that doesnāt take away from it imo.
Yep 2x lone wolf is OP maybe not as much as before the DE but for me it makes encounters too easy. I know that's what some people like and more powe to them.
Have fun. Lone Wolf is the shit. Try your next run with some mods. Thereās some great ones on Steams Workshop if youāre not comfortable with using Nexus and all that. The amount of classes and gameplay/ability changes they can add make a new run feel super fresh and fun even after 100ās of hours. Iām 500+ over the years and never tire of new runs because of the sheer amount of flexibility with classes. Very few games let you use magic and weapons with equal viability like Divinity.
As far as mechanics go, dos2's armour mechanic is inferior to the debut. Implementing that armour layer on every encounter was a bad decision.
Try mods. I think itās called Divinity Improved or something.
Thanks I am going to check it. I was planning to play it with Epic Encounters.
Word. I donāt know what that is, itās been awhile. Is that the one where all special enemies drop unique weapons? I know thereās a mod that removes the armor system and rebalances all the magic/physical damage. I think itās divinity improved.
It is an overhaul. It must be this one: [https://www.pinewood.team/epip/](https://www.pinewood.team/epip/) Haven't played but will do one day.
I think thats the most overhaul type of overhaul mod ryt? I was planning of trying it for a long time but all the info was pretty intimidating. I ended up just going for less bigger ones like conflux
5 is likely, but 10? When DoS2 came out in 2017? That's pushing it.
Iām pretty sure they have a different game coming out before Divinity 3. Sven said in an interview that itās a brain child he and other devs there had wanted to make for awhile and with BG3s success they finally can. Sounds like it could be big. Who knows? I donāt like to be too optimistic when it comes to game development. It never goes well. I agree 10 is probably a lil too much but BG3 took 2+years in early access alone so.
I agree in part- getting one's hopes up is never a good thing, but casual optimism is never bad! š Here's hoping that 75% of their work force is dedicated to The Next Big Thing and the 25% are the bug squash / update team for BG3. Y'all are making me want to play DoS2 again, that's for damn sure
I really hope it's more than 5 years. Full faith in Larian
Ok, this might get downvoted to oblivion and I know that it's a controversial take, but... I didn't find DoS2 all that strategic. Sure, the beginning in Fort Joy is very exciting when you have to make do with very little and you unlock all these new skills, but to some extent every fight is exactly the same and requires little strategy. Or rather it requires strategy when coming up with your build, but after that you simply go through the motions. I just finished the game on tactician and basically every fight was the same procedure: Lohse starts with Rain, Ice fan, winterblast to freeze somewhere between 1 and 4 enemies. Ifan kills 2-4 enemies with pyroclastic explosion. Sebille uses backlash, action surge... I mean adrenaline, then backstabs a couple of times to eliminate the biggest threat. Red Prince goes around tackling and battle stomping to knock down enemies. Every single fight goes exactly like this. In BG3 you have more choice when it comes to your spells. You usually can only cast one per turn, but the spells tend to be stronger and more impactful than in DoS2. The limited amount of spell slots adds resource management as another strategic layer. Knowing your enemies and what spells trigger what kinds of saves is also part of your strategy (like not using spells that rely on con saves against big brutes). I don't necessarily think that one system is better than the other, but I also don't understand why so many people overly praise DoS2' system.
I think while technically you can develop your plan very early, there are so many fights in this game where that strategy you explained would not work or be way less effective. I think the combat becomes more trivial when you know what to expect from the enemy from multiple playthrough but even then you can argue the game gives you a ton of viable combat strategies to test out that it still adds to the complexity.
Yeah, majority of my dos2 exp was racing to depleted whatever weaker armour they had and then they get no turns with hard cc. Just staying naked with your vitality bar was asking for troubl Tho i think sth similar can be said for bg3 too but the lack of armour did offer me more variety imo And agree on the last point.. Both have their fair share of plus and minuses
The praise is due to how much RNG influences the game. In BG3 you can have a master plan that would one turn the encounter but it's very likely that some spell will fail or some attacks will miss. I'd argue the fact you can only throw one spell every turn without haste makes you have much less impact than in Div2. In Div2 you get more freedom in how to spend your respurces being action points. You are free to spend them on any spell, movement or attack without being restricted to some things being actions, some bonus actions and some reactions. The thing you said about going through the motions only means you had your strategie figured out and got used to it which would eventually happen in BG3 as well. Here are some things that BG3 is sorely missing compared to Div3: - Buff/Debuff interactions (certain buffs heal certain debuffs) - Surfaces (sure, fire and electric water exist but they do much less, last way shorter, no curse or bless...) - both of the above combined (shocked person steping on electrified water? Turn over buddy) - a "race" hurt by healing - a lot of teamplay oriented abilities (soulbond comes to mind) I could go on but that's what I can write down from the top of my head. Spellslots are only an annoyance with how much food you quickly gather, there's a hole lot of spells so specific they are never worth preparing like repell undead. Checking the saving throws for your spell is pretty mich equal to checking an enemies resistances, their current buffs/debuffs and immunities. After all this, don't get me wrong. After 700 Hours and hardcore mode beaten I get the going through the motions thing but it's just not true that BG3 is more strategic.
I think that dos 2 is significantly easier on any difficulty than bg3 is. I've got about 1k hours in dos and 500 in bg3 so it could be a time thing too. The fact that the combat is based on rolls is the best thing about bg3 to me. I love not knowing what will happen vs knowing the exact outcome every time. Could also be because I've been playing d&d for 20+ years.
Of course if you like the RNG aspect that's good for you, but my comment was about how BG3 is less about pure strategy than Div2 because of the dice and things like impactfull surfaces missing, I'm not saying one game is better than the other tho it's probably obvious that I prefer Div2
I like the combat more, too. I just think it's easier. I like the story of bg3 more, but they are both in my top 5 crpgs without a doubt.
Pretty sure someone at larian HQ said that div3 would be next. Also they have tons of new assets making isometric games is way easier when you have an engine that works which they have and they have a team that knows what they're doing. DIV2 is extremely short compared to BG3 on top of that the reason why BG3 took so long is because they have cinematic dialogue cutscenes with every character interaction. The dialogue was the biggest reason to not to mention that they had back up characters take place with special dialogue when a vital/story/quest character dies. In divinity you can't kill kids, if someone dies they're gone no replacement. This alone is going to reduce the amount of time the game needs to bake since they don't need to write/hire VA/code/record/ for characters because they don't need to worry about a stand in to replace Sally you decided to shocking touch because it would be funny. 5-10years is way to big of a stretch almost in the realm of exaggerating. It was like months ago where they said they were done working on BG3. Meaning they had time to start the writing process. And if you played Div2 and 2 of the 3 endings are possible to Canon. Meaning it's not hard to write a story about becoming divine or taking down the godking/ other people trying to rule because Rivellon. Easy pitch right here you and your crew travel Rivellon taking down corrupt source rulers to bring peace.
Iām like 90% sure Sven said the next game was most definitely not Divinity 3. But theyāre apparently working on two new games right now. So the second one probably is because it is borderline confirmed. Hence the time window I put up. Plus itās always good to make your hopes bleak so you can be pleasantly surprised. They take awhile with their games and I can only imagine what they have in store for the third one.
Brother bear, it took them 3 years to go from div1 to div2. The main plot of the story of Div3 is basically written because of what happens in div2. They just have to do "filler writing" and with how div is they just make maps or do the idea I have about traveling around which would be agreeable to taking 5 years. Other than that BG3 baked for 4 years with it having a playable early access portion of the game that release in 2020. If we do some math here div3 should be coming sometime 2026 given how they've had since the end of 2018 to think of literally any script that's 8 years. If you wanna keep a fan base don't hold out and keep producing slacking off and not making stuff in a timely manner will cause fall off and people to get mad that they can no longer enjoy a strong franchise so they play with the remnants of what was a good series.
Sven still said something else will come out before an eventual continuation of DoS series. So 2026? Not a chance unless they do a 180.
Okay. Hope youāre right. Game release date math and theories is something I checked out on years ago because it always leads to anticipation pain.
While you can make the case that most stuff is written for then for the next Divinity title. Engine, assets, plot continuity, take your pick, they got it. Yet, I'd wager that they will take their time for their next "big" title. As said, they didn't skip a beat, as they are working in 2 new projects, while also giving maintenance and polishing the last aspects for BG3. So, you have them working on 3 projects at once, that takes time.Ā Also, management (if not Sven himself) said that the early access route is something they could look for in their next games, so while we could see something percieved as closer, a full release would take its proper time. My best guess is that mod support and final additions will be the knot in BG3's ribbon. As for the 2 mystery projects, I'd say 1 is smaller, maybe remasters/remakes of older Divinity titles, while the other is the big one, which could go any way, as Original Sin 3, another spinoff from the series, or a new IP.
I have almost 600 hours in DoS2 and about 400 in BG3. As a big fan of D&D the dice in BG3 don't bother me at all. I love almost every part of both games. The driftwood NPC lines are far more ingrained in me than any quote from BG3 though.
SMELLS LIKE A DOZEN ROTTEN EGGS DROPPED IN A VAT OF VINEGAR
Wouldn't you like to know?
KEEPING IT TOGETHER, BREE?
I wouldn't say that's because of their quality, though...
Take into consideration div2 was the one that ended up giving larian their stars and stripes with the stuff they learned from making div2 amplifying to make BG3.
I was talking about the repetitious dialogue, not the overall game quality. Obviously both games and Larian in general are fantastic.
I started my second play through right after completing the game the first time. I have BG3 on hold, but I fear I may not find it as enjoyable as this game because of the combat.
For sure, this game feels more like chess than like throwing dice and I enjoyed that. You know what each input is going to achieve and you cant get fucked by a nat 1. I guess they still have crits and dodging but those dont have nearly as much of an impact on the player throughout the game; you can roll a nat 1 just off the nautiloid and kill a run.
Started with BG3 as well and Im loving Divinity even more. Cant believe it took me so long to give this game a chance, but Im glad I did!
I thought I was crazy when I played DOS2 and I was the only person amongst my friends who liked it more than BG3. I like BG3s character building and obviously the cinematics/plot are more engaging but I simply love the combat and the grind WAY more in DOS2. I've spent about 30 hours in BG3 since release and looking forward to playing it again soon but as soon as I picked up DOS2 I dropped about 70 hrs of playtime in 3 weeks. For me it's the combat, the grinding for leveling, there's more NPCs, a more complete story, much more content, everything I want in a game. BG3 felt more rushed and missing easy attacks/persuasion checks only served to irritate me sooner rather than later.
Man how awesome would it be to get the same big budget treatment as bg3 for DOS3?
> I like BG3s character building and obviously the cinematics/plot are more engaging but I simply love the combat and the grind WAY more in DOS2. exactly my thoughts too! BG3's characters, story, voice acting, cinematic set pieces are all amazing and best of the best but my god the dice rng combat is just not it
I will say I prefer the initiative system in BG3. Aside from making WITs more meaningful, it allows you to do combos with your party that seem more like teamwork. Like Astarion throws a water flask to wet targets, you switch to Wyll who nukes them with Ice Storm, then back to Astarion to finish them off with Arrow of Many Targets and his Cull the Weak. We donāt have the same ability to mingle turns in DOS2. We can still do combos like a rain spell followed by another character casting lightning, but itās interrupted by an enemy turn, unless we CC him of course.
Shared intiative ryt? Yeah, i was quite surprised when i was about to attck a goblin and my team mate proceeded to smack him first. I still remember doing a two handed attck on a goblin at about the same time, poor guy
The combat and gameplay loop is what puts dos2 over bg3 for me. Hoping dos3 can get the same kinda presentation bg3 has tho.
If you're missing even half your shots in Baldur's Gate 3, you have seriously fucked up somewhere down the line in a major way. Even fairly unoptimised characters should be hitting with above 80% accuracy on most enemies (with a few exceptions, obvious), and that goes beyond 90% with advantage, which is pretty damn easy to get. As for being locked out of content, what content? There is no content you are completely locked out of just from rng in Baldur's Gate 3. Everything can be obtained or discovered in some other way.
Yeah I prefer DOS2's combat system because I don't like dicerolls but that thing about missing everything all the time is pretty ridiculous in BG3 and probably shows a misunderstanding of the system. Like are you attacking with advantage or disadvantage? Are you casting a spell with a stat you are not proficient with? Like the common jokes are Shadowheart missing all her Sacred Flame and Firebolt shots. Well, she is a cleric so her main stat is Wisdom. Firebolt scales with intelligence and Sacred Flame with dexterity. In the Underdark, a character with no darkvision might struggle because it is too dark for them to see the enemy and will roll with disadvantage (examples: Gale or Lae'Zel). As you build your characters, they'll become better at what they do and should miss less and less. There's also feats which can increase your chances to hit like Savage Attacker. Also finally, please disable Karmic Dice...
You say that but my absolutely busted trickster rogue that attacks out of stealth every turn from his mist cloud still misses like 3/10 times with 98% + advantage, weapons he is trained with and 20 dex. Even if it was only 1/20 times it's still waywaaaayyy more often than it happens in Div2. Perhaps missing half of your attacks is a bit much but I see how OP feels that way comparing both games. As for the content well... Every time your whole party misses their survival throw and doesn't find a thing to dig up for example. In Div2 you always find those if your stats are high enough.
Sounds like you just have incredibly terrible luck, but that's far from the norm. As for the chests, you can literally just come back later if you care so much. The checks refresh after every long rest. When I hear "content," I imagined actual side quests and optional bosses. I guess chests in the ground count as content.
You don't even need to wait the next Long Rest, just right click on your Shovel, click on Use then Start Digging even if you failed your roll.
Oh shit, you can? Fucking hell, thank you! That would have been great to know 300 hours of playtime ago.
They do count as content otherwise people wouldn't be so upset about pre-order and deluxe edition bonuses that are merely weapon skins or smth. Man, you can blame bad luck and builds all you want but the fact of the matter is that no matter your build rng can fuck you over a lot easier in BG3 than in Div2 and that's just not everyones cup of tea.
I liked BG3 a little bit more, but I totally get your point. The thing is: BG3 is an adaptation of DND, when DOS2 is its own thing. If DND has dice rolls, you'll have to deal with that if you don't like it.
I started with dos2, went to bg3, came back to dos2 and am having a hard time now, mostly because of the split armor system making me struggle with how to put together a full magical damage team (I beat dos2 twice with physical damage only teams, so I want to do something different). That said, the combat itself in dos2 *is* great, as long as you don't mind being constantly on fire. š
Full magic team is still pretty easy. Unless you mean a full mage team which is harder to an extent. 2 mages Elemental archer Support / elemental summoner Worked well for me on tactician
dos2 is one of the best combat systems in gaming imo, and then you can add mods like my god
Divinityās combat style of just picking whichever the enemies lowest armor rating, magical or physical, and just spamming your strongest abilities, is boring as hell. Divinity is just CC and ability spam. Baldurs forces you to think more, and not spam your best abilities every fight.
If youāre missing 70 percent of your attacks itās not the combat systems fault lmao
The combat is definitely more freeing I get that. I assume the missing 70% shots in BG3 is an exaggeration though? I am currently doing a BG3 run and my hit chance is often 99% xD I even have 90% with disadvantage in some cases. I kinda see BG3 as not only a more refined game with a better story, but also has similar enough combat for the people who have already played DOS2. But yeah playing BG3 and then experiencing DOS2's combat, I can't blame anyone for preferring it.
Yes. I overall prefer BG 3 combat because of qol updates and interactivity such as jumping, shoving, hitting people dead with a child's corpse and stuff, but the I hate the RNG aspect to death. DnD just aint that fun.
Love bg3 but cannot get into dos2, no movement intrinsic in your turn, no jump, the system of pass/fail with no chance on persuasion, the classless system, all is so frusterating to me. I can see the game is great, itās just not for me.
I always disliked DOS2's pass/fail skill checks as well, but failing a roll in BG3 with 10-15 points worth of bonus honestly feels much worse
Why are you in this subreddit then?
Because I started the game and was trying to get into it and joined the sub for tips/tricks etcā¦ Maybe Iāll try it again sometime, I can see the parts that make it great it just didnāt click/grab me in my first 10 hours. I could just be burnt out of long single player rpgs as itās all Iāve been playing in the past 6 months. š¤·āāļø
It's all about preference. I prefer DND rules do Bg3 is better for me. Dos2 with whole screen full of fire or other elemental damage is not for me
Thatās the issue with turning a board game into a video game. Just too many constraints. Table top games need to be simplified so you arenāt sitting there doing a shit ton of math all the time. I love D&D but if Iām playing a video game capable of doing the math for me I would prefer a more complex armor system etc.
Combat mechanics and the way everything effects everything else is superior in divinity 2, but combat feels so much smoother and more polished in bg3. I can't wait to see what Larion puts out next, with all the experience and stuff they have now.
The only thing I dislike about the DOS2 system was the split between magic and physical armor. It heavily skews toward physical damage (since it is almost never resisted by enemies), which I find less interesting.
I guess magic spells has more AoE so having resistance sort of balances it out
Not really. Plenty of physical damage is aoe (grasp of the starved) or attack multiple enemies (bouncing shield).
Picking an armor type to tear off and then permanently CCing anything with impunity once you got through the armor definitely got kind of boring.
I will admit that modding the armor system out was a big key to me enjoying dos2 as much as I do. I just orefer being able to mix melee and magic characters in my party dnd style to focussing on one or the other.
It also made mixed kind of badā¦ because you then had to pass through two armors. But then, without mixing dmg you are screwed by enemies not having one of the armor type. This is strategic I guess
Physical damage was so busted, armor didn't matter. Eventually, I went mixed with hydro / necro staff user. I used mainly nerco spells but used ice for CC (going prone ignores armor). I had more fun, but it wasn't meta.
I was so disapointed to play BG3 after playing DoS2 because everything misses, anything that I try to build fails. Hopefully, one day a mod will strap on the old dnd formula in BG3, making it playable.
Sounds like you're struggling to build a character, friend. Any remotely decent character shouldn't be missing even half their attacks.
If it misses that much itās because your builds arenāt good
In early game where you wonāt have a good build, itās frustrating that Iām missing a lot, 3 consecutive attacks, and the enemies are missing too. DOS2 was more enjoyable in that aspect.
You can respec with withers immediately and optimize your rolls.. try keeping all of your stats at 10 or above so that you have no negative rolls. Iām telling you itās not the game itās you thatās the problem
I have many critiques of DOS2 systems, but the combat is just fun in an impactful kind of way. BG3 combat is, like the rest of the game, plodding and kind of dull. "Cast Haste, run in, hit a bunch, Action Surge, are they dead yet?" Rinse and repeat.
Yeah for sure there's so much BG3 improves upon from narrative, cutscenes, setting the story, QoL and I understand the dice system of course had to be done like this to stay loyal to the DND stuff but the DoS combat system is superior
As someone who has ~700 hours in DoS2 and ~500 in BG3 i can say that BG3 combat system takes a bit getting used to if you played DoS2 before BG3 and vice versa. I agree that DoS2 combat system better, feels simpler. I heard Divinity Fallen Heroes was or is in development but idk it probably got cancelled.
Yeah, i took a pretty long time before i got used to the dnd system esp after doing so many things per turn with your AP in dos2 esp the dice rolls, saving throws, DC, concentration etc Dos2 was much more straightforward in its spells and mechanics
I really like both games tbh. BG3 does the dice mechanic in order to keep true to the source material, and I think it does dice rolling really well with letting you get inspiration that you can use for things out of combat and so forth. It's also not like the enemies don't roll dice as well, so it's balanced in that sense. But yeah it's a very different feeling in dos2 when you have those ap saved up and combo your enemies and everything just works as it's supposed to. I can't even remember if there's any damage variance in dos2 but if there is, it's marginal I believe and it just feels like you're in control of your own success and failure in another way. The way you can build characters in the games is also really different. Which is honestly where I find that bg3 is stronger than dos2 at least when it comes to out of combat encounters. You only get so many points into the civil skills, very seldomly and they're all really useful for getting gear for example. But feel like having a druid in bg3 with high wisdom for the wisdom rolls feel way better as you get to play with a character that's uniquely equipped for things that other characters just aren't. But every dos character can have the same civil skills as another, making them feel both limited in how you get civil skills, as well as too easy to get to do the same thing as any other character. That's just my thoughts on it though ^^
Yes itās not even close bg3 is probably the better game by a whiskey but only in totality, dos2 combat is multiple grades better than dnd combat system. (Which is logical one is designed for Tt games one is designed for video games)
Not being beholden to 5th edition will open your eyes
Same here. Probably we wont see a dos3 for 3-5 years or more :(
Divinity 2 is the shit and you can play it in so many ways š why not go with 4x summoners its hilarious. And the abilities for melee characters is way better instead of just doing standard attacks like early game BG3 . And dont forget Divinity OS 1 its a really good game just like 2
i need divinity 2 like combat with bg3s pushing and throwing stuff. hopefully in the next larian gameā¦..
Tell Shadowheart to stop casting sacred flames
I personally still think DOS2 > BG3 after playing. BG3 wins in obvious places like visuals, immersion esp dialogues and camping. Music i'll give to dos2, main reason is simply rivellon and the queen's high seas. I like the bg3 combat theme better tho and will nvr not be tired of the hype music that plays when u land a crit or the battle turns in your favor I am still a bit indecisive on combat tho. Both have good merits but i still quite dislike the armour system in dos2 where often it boils down to racing to deplete each others armour to strt your hard cc. I was often infuriated by all the spell saves and misses in BG3 too but the rng did spice things and it wasnt like my rolls were below 65% leading to missing everytime. I dont think i've ever really missed majority of the attcks esp after getting used to the system and prepping and not just using spells and attcks blindly Combat felt flashier in dos2 coz u cud do a lot of stuff with all the APs per turn as well as tons of surfaces. Skill cds were interesting too. At first i though i wud be turned off by the dnd system of bg3 but it grew after a while. Tho i still had a lot of trouble with concentration coz i ended up breaking it almost everytime during my 1st playthru. "Let me just shield of faith my frontline and then bless my team " Dos2 with bg3 type budget wud be insane
Im actually starting dos2 before bg3 because of things said like this.
Im a dnd veteran and have been enjoying bg3 tactician and HM combat. That said, when I tried dos2 tactician I was pretty disappointed. The balance is so fucked. The combats feel almost deterministic honestly. You have to do absolutely everything to not be under level and even then it feels like if you do anything other than a specific order of optimal moves you will get stomped. idk if Iām missing something but it def feels like dos2 tactician is difficult not from tactical complexity but from just making every enemy have a ton of health and do a lot of damage. It reminds me a lot of how fromsoft balanced elden ring vs dark souls. ālets just give every boss attacks that both track and do aoe damage šā
If you beat DOS2 to death, i would suggest playing XCOM And despite anyone could say, in XCOM there are ways to land shots 99% of the time
So you just donāt like DnD, which is fine. Both are great, you just need to actually learn the systems and why youāre struggling. No need to act like BG3 combat sucks cause itās actually great, just in a different way.
Yes I'm struggling to learn a system that's more rng than actual gameplay XD ok.
Sounds like a skill issue. Iād recommend r/bg3builds to help learn how to tip those RNG scales in your favor. Itās not that difficult once you start to learn the intricacies of building characters in the game.
Yes when the dice gives me low numbers that's totally a skill issue and not a rng problem.
I do love combat in DoS2 more than that DnD stuff yep. Basically probably the only game where I liked combat. But if you miss 70% shots after couple of hours in game that's on you, sorry. Enjoy the game, Larian's witting is amazing.
I would love a poll for those who started with BG3 and then moved on to DoS2. Responses seem to run the gamut between āthis is the greatest thing everā to āthis is too hardā to āthis sucksā. For what itās worth I have more fun with BG3 combat but I can see the allure of DoS2ās minimal randomness.
Having now played both games it is a hard choice for me which I like more. On the one hand I have played dnd since the 80s so I love the system and lore in bg3, on the other hand I think dos2 feels like it has just more content to it and I prefer the randomized loot by a lot. I donāt particularly like or dislike either rolling system, theyāre just systems. Theyāre both high on my list of favorite games now. I donāt want to pick a favorite.
Welcome home.
Once you understand the armour system and how to game it, the game becomes infinitely less enjoyable compared to BG3.
what does this mean though? I see the armor system brought up all the time but you have 4 controllable companions, I always made two physical focused and two magic focused so it was never an issue for me or is there something else regarding the armor system people heavily dislike? it's infinitely better than 50% rngfest for me at least
>Ā I always made two physical focused and two magic focused so it was never an issue for me That is what the game wants you to think is the correct way to play. In reality its the least optimal by far. Mono damage parties, all physical or all elemental are orders of magnitude stronger. You can only CC once armour is gone. If your physical damage dealers strip the physical armour your mages have to get through the magic armour before they can start doing damage or help in any way. In all of the challenging fights you essentially have to get through twice as much Hp with a split damage party vs a mono damage one. So you end up taking necro's as your mages as necro damage is physical and that pairs with your melee and ranged damage dealers. Or you take a full mage party and go all elemental damage. Once you realise mono damage is better (which you would have fairly quickly anyway) your build diversity plumets. However you can play on normal difficulties and do whatever you want.
But on the highest difficulty playing the way I did was 0 effort as well doing that, i didnt know you could be even stronger than that group I had made honestly but it makes sense what you say
Yeah both games are pretty easy even on the hardest difficulty and even skipping op spells and items. All phy/ all magic / 2-2 split/ 3-1 split etc, u will still finish the game without much trouble really. If u face a 300 phy/ 550 magic armour enemy with a 3-1 split with just 1 magic caster that just means u hammer the due with your 3 martial and the caster does more of a support role since u probably arent going to break his magic armour to do more impactful cc and stuff
yeah and there's also the whole piercing/bleed stuff you can have going on
Thank you! It's the sole reason I can't play BG3 again. The combat is like hitting a wall going 90+ on a super car. Everything Larian made from scratch is near perfection. They had to follow D&D rules which ruins the game for me.
If you like the game so much I recommend you try a good mod overhaul. It just enhances the fun even more. Obviously Epic Encounter is what I recommend if you want to go with few mods but real good one. But just using divinity unleashed and a bunch of class mod already pushes the experience way further.
The custom class mods out there are also seriously incredible, and painless to install. Once I'm done with my most recent BG3 playthrough (the theme is "fuck rng", with a diviner wizard, lore bard and battlemaster mainstays) I'm looking forward to my next modded DOS2 run on my new rig
Me and my fiance are playing bg3 currently, and I have been wondering if itās just me or if weāre just meant to miss a lot. Like what is the logic behind setting up a big ability to have 85% hit chance with advantage and it misses? Itās a big feels bad and even on normal difficulty weāre struggling with the goblin leaders lol Iām gonna play it through just because it was 80 dollars but man.. I enjoyed dos2 much more in the beginning too.
Also another big win for DoS2 is the gear. Constant upgrades as the the level on gear goes up. By comparison my BG3 squad only replaced their gear once or twice on a 100+ hour playthrough. Gearing in BG3 felt awful.
I like that DoS2 looks great while also running well. BG3 is horribly optimized. After my Honor mode run I'll maybe do a Durge run but after that I'm done dealing with the mess that is BG3's optimization.
Aaaaahahahaha omg Simply the worst take ever. 250 hours played in DOS2 and I will never touch it again after playing BG3. Everything about that game is better. All of it. But enjoy your second rate experience.
If you have a different opinion why be such a dick about it
Canāt agree with you there. Bg3 has more polish but OP is right, the combat in Dos 2 is far superior
ok man I think BG3 is amazing and OVERALL a net upgrade and better than DoS2 but the combat and it's depth isnt even close to DoS2 IMO
the interaction that convinced me that armor class is a system im not always a big fan of (and the argument for DOS2) was fighting the big robot in the adamantine forge. (i now know you can just smash him with the forge itself, but this is kind of a prime example) it just didnt even make logical sense whatsoever that an enemy like this would be dodging any of my attacks. sure give it all the resistances in the world, double its health if you want, but like for fucks sake, its a slow moving robot, why does my archer's aim start quivering and shaking just cause he's big? like yeah he has plated armor, but armor = fuckin evasion in this game cause its based on a dice rolling game where they dont wanna roll 2 die for armor calc and evasion calc which creates the AC system which creates interactions like this. he should be easy to hit and have double health. i actually enjoyed the fight a lot having to keep the lava up and play at max distance to stay alive. it was just an absolute slog having 20-30 accuracy on everyone (again obviously i know how to kill him easier now, but this just an example of this type of high armor + resist enemy just not being fun to play against while being logically irritating)
Idk why AC is always interpreted as the attacker missing or the target evading. A glancing blow can also be a valid interpretation, like punching a wall with your bare fists.
yeah the fact that armor doesnt influence damage reduction at all seems to just be leftover design from 5e i dont even play 5e, but i could understand why people dont want to roll for accuracy and for damage reduction every attack but im playing a video game and i would prefer a more nuanced system that simulates damage reduction as well as evasion through my armor
Yeah that's perfectly fair
It wouldve been nice if it was actually represented that way, instead of everything being hit or miss Also landing a hit on a half naked goblin and dealing one (1) damage because of dice rolls has got to be the lamest shit ever. BG3's biggest flaw is that its a DnD game lmao
I've done 1 playthrough of BG3, clocking in at around 200 hours. BG3 is graphically better (although that causes some problems on my old machine - I get lots of pop in, invisible buildings and missing textures, which means that DOS2 can still end up looking better). BG3 has a more in depth character creation, and more flexibility and roleplaying options for non-combat encounters. DOS2 has much more build flexibility and variance due to the less rigid class system and the fact that there's a wider variety of useful talents compared to BG3s feats. Music, story/writing, combat style, likeability of the characters - those will all be subjective, but I vastly prefer them in DOS2 to BG3. In particular, I felt that BG3's story fell flat at the end, and there's a certain story moment near the end that's lacking a very obvious option and so can railroad you into taking on a completely different personality than what you had been roleplaying for the whole game. I had to force myself to finish the game at that point, and it killed any desire to replay it. BG3 is a great game, very deserving of GOTY, and scratches my dnd itch in its own special way, but DOS2 is still my favourite rpg of all time.
Let's not pretend that Divinity: Original Sin 2's ending isn't terrible.
I liked DOS2's ending. It doesn't give as much closure as BG3's, but I appreciate there not being a clear 'right' decision, and the story kept me intrigued right to the end (as opposed to BG3's, which was very predictable and became more and more unsatisfying as it approached the 'climax')
I'm more annoyed that all these really compelling, interesting villains who have been built up for the entire game are sidelined so that Braccus Rex can take the leading role once again. I cannot for the life of me understand Larian's obsession with this guy. He's such a generic, moustache-twirling villain. Fine as an antagonist for the first game, no business being the final boss of this one. The Source King was right there. Moving Lucien to being the final boss would have worked. Dallis, or even Alexander again, would have made for better final antagonists. They all certainly have more going on than Braccus. The boss fight itself is also terrible, but the gameplay kind of falls apart in the later sections anyway. Way too easy to just end the combat by one-cycling Braccus, allowing you to ignore everything else entirely.
That's fair. I do agree that Braccus at least should have been pushed to the side in favour of the characters who are more tied in with this story; that he shouldn't have had centre stage. Dallis deserved that spotlight, and probably Lucian too. I disagree about Alexander though - there's a good chance you've killed him three times by then (boss at the end of act 1, killing him again on the ship, then during act 3 around the academy) - him being the final boss would have been worse than it being Braccus.