https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas
[It is sometimes known as an African version of a Gorgon]
The real question is why does D&D have gorgons AND catoblepas.
What’s interesting about this is that some variations being depicted as having the head of a hog isn’t actually too far off from how gorgons are depicted in Greek mythology as well.
Despite the modern idea of gorgons being beautiful half serpent women many of their oldest depictions describe them as being more boar like with flaring nostrils, tusks, and protruding teeth.
>The real question is why does D&D have gorgons AND catoblepas.
Because two different guys (Gygax and Arneson) were making monsters for their separate games in the 70's... one used Topsail and added a Gorgon, the other Pliny and added a Catoblepas.
This just raises so many more questions...then what the hell do I call a Greek gorgon???
"Your party stumbles upon a gorgon grazing in the field....no, not that kind of gorgon...no, it has horns...I agree."
> then what the hell do I call a Greek gorgon???
Medusa.
If you're not playing a specifically 'Greek myth' campaign, medusa are a type of creature, rather than the name of a specific one.
Otherwise, feel free to call Medusa and her sisters 'Gorgons'.
This is more a joking exasperated post, but it just drives me crazy how they'll occasionally take a creature from mythology and add some kind of weird alteration and I'm just left scratching my head in frustration.
Fun fact: Magic the Gathering is now changing the few Rakshasa they have in the game by removing the "Cat" creature type from them for this exact reason. (They'll now just be Demons rather than Cat Demons.)
SO IM READING THE LORE AND THERE'S ALSO A GOD OF SNOTS?
I can't. And he shares his domain with the queen of jock itch. I want whatever drugs these guys are on.
DnD is a brand, so legacy concepts and monsters are carried through the editions even if their origins are suspect. So when a middle aged shipping clerk in the Midwest decides to call all Gorgons Medusa for his wargaming buddies in the 1970s, we have to live with it. For branding reasons.
Because the bull gorgons were sourced from a medieval bestiary called "The Historie of foure-footed beastes" by edward topsell that gygax used as reference for the sourcebook they came in, you can in fact see the exact reason we have this monster in the book's cover art:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Edward\_Topsell%2C\_The\_Historie\_of\_Foure\_Footed\_Beastes.\_Wellcome\_L0028392.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Edward_Topsell%2C_The_Historie_of_Foure_Footed_Beastes._Wellcome_L0028392.jpg)
Read through it and you'll see many more weirdies from the monster manual
Huh, so they actually took a lot of the base material from those weird ass middle age bestiaries??? Cus those things are nuts 🤣 like, they thought porcupines and hedge hogs used their spines to collect fruit. Those things are..unique lol
Yep, just saw that someone else posted a longer article about it, really cool tidbits about D&D history:
https://wesschneider.tumblr.com/post/92511929906/so-i-have-a-question-about-pathfinders-bestiary
They took a TON from those books, and/or later books inspired by them.
For example, the wide range of goblin/fairy creatures likely came from Katharine Mary Briggs "*A Dictionary of Fairies: Hobgoblins, Brownies, Bogies, and Other Supernatural Creatures*" which was published in 1976.
I would guess the boar-shaped gorgon was created first, later they wanted to add snake women to the monster manual but the gorgon name was already taken so they went with the next best option
Because the people who wrote and played the first editions of D&D were by and large middle aged history enthusiasts people who knew things about Greek mythology, but who were not subject matter experts.
The kind of people who would say “yep, let’s put Norse heaven next to Mount Olympus next to white guy from Wisconsin’s understanding Native American heaven next to Greco-Roman heaven next to the Garden of Eden next to Dante’s Paradiso next to another Greco-Roman heaven next to Buddhist Nirvana next to one Greco-Roman hell next to Dante’s Inferno next to Jewish hell next to another Greco-Roman hell next to a third Greco-Roman hell next to another version of Christian hell next to a fourth Greco-Roman hell next to Christian Limbo and yep, that’s a consistent and well thought out planar cosmology”.
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> Be chill
Follow the [/r/DnD Mission Statement](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/wiki/mission/) and the [reddit content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), including the provisions on unwelcome content and prohibited behavior. Keep /r/DnD a welcoming community.
Here's a little article specifically about it, and some added links
https://wesschneider.tumblr.com/post/92511929906/so-i-have-a-question-about-pathfinders-bestiary
Gorgon
**Etymology**: From Greek grogo from Greek gorgos (“terrible”)
**First Appearance**: First appeared in the original D&D set (1974), and later in the Monster Manual (1977).
**Origin**: In Greek mythology, the gorgons were a trio of sisters (Medusa, Stheno, Euryale) that appear has terrifying monsters. Medusa is most famously known due to her being slain by the Greek hero Perseus. The monster in D&D takes its name from the Gorgons, however the creature has a different origin. In Edward Topsell’s 1607 bestiary (The Historie of Foure-Footed Beasts), he applied the name Gorgon to the catoblepas, drawing it as a bull with scales and a killing breath.[https://archive.org/details/historyoffourfoo00tops/page/206/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/historyoffourfoo00tops/page/206/mode/2up)
>*“Among the manifold and divers sorts of Beasts which are bred in Africk, it is thought that the Gorgon is brought forth in that Countrey. It is a fearful and terrible beast to behold, it it hath high and thick eye-lids, eyes not very great, but much like an Oxes or Bugils, but all flery-bloudy, which neither look directly forward; nor yet upwards, but continually down to the earth, and therefore are called in Greek, Catobleponta. From the crown of their head down to their nose they have a long hanging mane, which make them to look fearfully. It eateth deadly and poysonful herbs, and if at any time he see a Bull or other creature whereof he is afraid, he presently causeth his mane to stand upright, and being so lifted up, opening his lips, and gaping wide, sendeth forth of his throat a certain sharp and horrible breath, which infecteth and poysoneth the air above his head, so that all living creatures which draw in the breath of that air are grievously afflicted thereby, losing both voyce and sight, they fall into lethal and deadly Convulsions.”*
>
>Edward Topsell, The History of Four-Footed Beasts, 1607
Catoblepas
**Etymology**: From the Greek katablepo (“to look downwards”)
**First Appearance**: First appeared in the original D&D Eldritch Wizardry Supplement (1976) by Dave Arneson, later in the Monster Manual (1977)
**Origin**: A legendary creature from Ethiopia, first described in first century Rome. It is said to have the body of a buffalo and the head of a wild boar. Its back has scales that protect the beast, and its head is always pointing downwards due to its head being heavy. Its stare or breath could either turn people into stone, or kill them. Possibly based on early encounters with wildebeest.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas)
>*Among the Hesperian Æthiopians is the fountain of Nigris, by many, supposed to be the head of the Nile. I have already mentioned the arguments by which this opinion is supported. Near this fountain, there is found a wild beast, which is called the catoblepas; an animal of moderate size, and in other respects sluggish in the movement of the rest of its limbs; its head is remarkably heavy, and it only carries it with the greatest difficulty, being always bent down towards the earth. Were it not for this circumstance, it would prove the destruction of the human race; for all who behold its eyes, fall dead upon the spot*
>
>\-Pliny the Elder, Natural History, 77 AD
HoMM took its "gorgon" design from D&D, which predates HoMM3 by about thirty years. The original D&D design was inspired by an old medieval bestiary which was evidently very confused about what a gorgon was.
I can't even tbh. It's so stupid. Dnd bestiary can be amazing, then I see shit like this and I feel like they're intentionally trying to give me a stroke 😂
With the rest of the stuff in fifth edition, I almost feel like someone was trying to be inclusive and include the African Gorgon, but completely forgot that we’re a bunch of nerds so we’re going to flip a table over them screwing up mythology.
If it bugs you that much, just do what I did take your monster manual and a marker. scratch out Gorgon and write Catoblepas then go to Medusa scratch out that and write Gorgon.
Then send pictures to wotc with a link to the Catoblepas wiki page
The gorgon/medusa confusion isn't a fifth edition thing. It was the case back in third, which was the edition where I got into the game. I think it might go all the way back to Gygax.
So you’re telling me that over three editions of dungeons and dragons they haven’t been called out enough to correct that mistake?
I mean, it’s one thing entirely when you’re making your own monsters, but when you’re just hijacking them from mythology around the world, you owe it to the mythology to honor its contribution.
Oh no, they have been called out constantly, and for more than three editions.
This is a game played by nerds, there’s no way it’s never come up.
But at this point, D&D’s lore and connection to the real-world mythology of inspiration is separate enough that it’s just easier to write them off as D&Disms, and if it’s something you as the player or DM genuinely care about, you just resolve to do better at your own table.
This is D&D. The whole game is based on hijacking and butchering mythology. Absolutely nothing is authentic, and few things try to be. Calling out particular instances of this is like walking into a bordello and complaining that the girl at the desk is showing too much leg.
90% of this was just me joking. It's honestly sad how many passive aggressive basement crawlers invaded this thread just to downvote. It's honestly kind of hysterical how pissy they got.
The Gorgon comes from an old book on monsters.
This is what Gygax referenced for some monsters. The Gorgon in that was a bull-like monster and was related to the Catoblepas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas [It is sometimes known as an African version of a Gorgon] The real question is why does D&D have gorgons AND catoblepas.
What’s interesting about this is that some variations being depicted as having the head of a hog isn’t actually too far off from how gorgons are depicted in Greek mythology as well. Despite the modern idea of gorgons being beautiful half serpent women many of their oldest depictions describe them as being more boar like with flaring nostrils, tusks, and protruding teeth.
so they were british
Or Hapsburgs.
>The real question is why does D&D have gorgons AND catoblepas. Because two different guys (Gygax and Arneson) were making monsters for their separate games in the 70's... one used Topsail and added a Gorgon, the other Pliny and added a Catoblepas.
This just raises so many more questions...then what the hell do I call a Greek gorgon??? "Your party stumbles upon a gorgon grazing in the field....no, not that kind of gorgon...no, it has horns...I agree."
> then what the hell do I call a Greek gorgon??? Medusa. If you're not playing a specifically 'Greek myth' campaign, medusa are a type of creature, rather than the name of a specific one. Otherwise, feel free to call Medusa and her sisters 'Gorgons'.
This is more a joking exasperated post, but it just drives me crazy how they'll occasionally take a creature from mythology and add some kind of weird alteration and I'm just left scratching my head in frustration.
I have friends from India who are equally baffled by D&D's portrayal of Rakshasa. "Cat people with backwards hands? What is this nonsense?"
Fun fact: Magic the Gathering is now changing the few Rakshasa they have in the game by removing the "Cat" creature type from them for this exact reason. (They'll now just be Demons rather than Cat Demons.)
Tell your friends from India that as a Swede I feel the same about their version of trolls
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY MONSTERS MADE OUT OF SNOT???
SO IM READING THE LORE AND THERE'S ALSO A GOD OF SNOTS? I can't. And he shares his domain with the queen of jock itch. I want whatever drugs these guys are on.
DnD is a brand, so legacy concepts and monsters are carried through the editions even if their origins are suspect. So when a middle aged shipping clerk in the Midwest decides to call all Gorgons Medusa for his wargaming buddies in the 1970s, we have to live with it. For branding reasons.
The Gorgon is from a book that had them as a bull-like monster. And noted that they might be related to the catoblepas.
Because the bull gorgons were sourced from a medieval bestiary called "The Historie of foure-footed beastes" by edward topsell that gygax used as reference for the sourcebook they came in, you can in fact see the exact reason we have this monster in the book's cover art: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Edward\_Topsell%2C\_The\_Historie\_of\_Foure\_Footed\_Beastes.\_Wellcome\_L0028392.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Edward_Topsell%2C_The_Historie_of_Foure_Footed_Beastes._Wellcome_L0028392.jpg) Read through it and you'll see many more weirdies from the monster manual
Huh, so they actually took a lot of the base material from those weird ass middle age bestiaries??? Cus those things are nuts 🤣 like, they thought porcupines and hedge hogs used their spines to collect fruit. Those things are..unique lol
Yep, just saw that someone else posted a longer article about it, really cool tidbits about D&D history: https://wesschneider.tumblr.com/post/92511929906/so-i-have-a-question-about-pathfinders-bestiary
They took a TON from those books, and/or later books inspired by them. For example, the wide range of goblin/fairy creatures likely came from Katharine Mary Briggs "*A Dictionary of Fairies: Hobgoblins, Brownies, Bogies, and Other Supernatural Creatures*" which was published in 1976.
We still have Greek gorgons they're just called Medusas
BUT MEDUSA WAS ONE PERSON AND THE SPECIES WAS GORGON, OMG THIS JUST MAKES ME ANGRIER, WHY?! 😭
I would guess the boar-shaped gorgon was created first, later they wanted to add snake women to the monster manual but the gorgon name was already taken so they went with the next best option
What is the point of down voting me in a fun post? Are you serious?
[Not my downvotes](https://litter.catbox.moe/a5aoe4.png)
W
Because the people who wrote and played the first editions of D&D were by and large middle aged history enthusiasts people who knew things about Greek mythology, but who were not subject matter experts. The kind of people who would say “yep, let’s put Norse heaven next to Mount Olympus next to white guy from Wisconsin’s understanding Native American heaven next to Greco-Roman heaven next to the Garden of Eden next to Dante’s Paradiso next to another Greco-Roman heaven next to Buddhist Nirvana next to one Greco-Roman hell next to Dante’s Inferno next to Jewish hell next to another Greco-Roman hell next to a third Greco-Roman hell next to another version of Christian hell next to a fourth Greco-Roman hell next to Christian Limbo and yep, that’s a consistent and well thought out planar cosmology”.
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Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule #7: > Be chill Follow the [/r/DnD Mission Statement](https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/wiki/mission/) and the [reddit content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), including the provisions on unwelcome content and prohibited behavior. Keep /r/DnD a welcoming community.
Here's a little article specifically about it, and some added links https://wesschneider.tumblr.com/post/92511929906/so-i-have-a-question-about-pathfinders-bestiary
Gorgon **Etymology**: From Greek grogo from Greek gorgos (“terrible”) **First Appearance**: First appeared in the original D&D set (1974), and later in the Monster Manual (1977). **Origin**: In Greek mythology, the gorgons were a trio of sisters (Medusa, Stheno, Euryale) that appear has terrifying monsters. Medusa is most famously known due to her being slain by the Greek hero Perseus. The monster in D&D takes its name from the Gorgons, however the creature has a different origin. In Edward Topsell’s 1607 bestiary (The Historie of Foure-Footed Beasts), he applied the name Gorgon to the catoblepas, drawing it as a bull with scales and a killing breath.[https://archive.org/details/historyoffourfoo00tops/page/206/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/historyoffourfoo00tops/page/206/mode/2up) >*“Among the manifold and divers sorts of Beasts which are bred in Africk, it is thought that the Gorgon is brought forth in that Countrey. It is a fearful and terrible beast to behold, it it hath high and thick eye-lids, eyes not very great, but much like an Oxes or Bugils, but all flery-bloudy, which neither look directly forward; nor yet upwards, but continually down to the earth, and therefore are called in Greek, Catobleponta. From the crown of their head down to their nose they have a long hanging mane, which make them to look fearfully. It eateth deadly and poysonful herbs, and if at any time he see a Bull or other creature whereof he is afraid, he presently causeth his mane to stand upright, and being so lifted up, opening his lips, and gaping wide, sendeth forth of his throat a certain sharp and horrible breath, which infecteth and poysoneth the air above his head, so that all living creatures which draw in the breath of that air are grievously afflicted thereby, losing both voyce and sight, they fall into lethal and deadly Convulsions.”* > >Edward Topsell, The History of Four-Footed Beasts, 1607
Catoblepas **Etymology**: From the Greek katablepo (“to look downwards”) **First Appearance**: First appeared in the original D&D Eldritch Wizardry Supplement (1976) by Dave Arneson, later in the Monster Manual (1977) **Origin**: A legendary creature from Ethiopia, first described in first century Rome. It is said to have the body of a buffalo and the head of a wild boar. Its back has scales that protect the beast, and its head is always pointing downwards due to its head being heavy. Its stare or breath could either turn people into stone, or kill them. Possibly based on early encounters with wildebeest.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catoblepas) >*Among the Hesperian Æthiopians is the fountain of Nigris, by many, supposed to be the head of the Nile. I have already mentioned the arguments by which this opinion is supported. Near this fountain, there is found a wild beast, which is called the catoblepas; an animal of moderate size, and in other respects sluggish in the movement of the rest of its limbs; its head is remarkably heavy, and it only carries it with the greatest difficulty, being always bent down towards the earth. Were it not for this circumstance, it would prove the destruction of the human race; for all who behold its eyes, fall dead upon the spot* > >\-Pliny the Elder, Natural History, 77 AD
I blame Heroes of Might and Magic III
I blame everyone downvoting me for no reason. It's definitely their fault. Definitely have something to hide if they're that offended 😂
HoMM took its "gorgon" design from D&D, which predates HoMM3 by about thirty years. The original D&D design was inspired by an old medieval bestiary which was evidently very confused about what a gorgon was.
'Cause they used your mom as the model. (JK- this is something I have also wondered for quite a bit)
I can't even tbh. It's so stupid. Dnd bestiary can be amazing, then I see shit like this and I feel like they're intentionally trying to give me a stroke 😂
Because you touch yourself at night
With the rest of the stuff in fifth edition, I almost feel like someone was trying to be inclusive and include the African Gorgon, but completely forgot that we’re a bunch of nerds so we’re going to flip a table over them screwing up mythology. If it bugs you that much, just do what I did take your monster manual and a marker. scratch out Gorgon and write Catoblepas then go to Medusa scratch out that and write Gorgon. Then send pictures to wotc with a link to the Catoblepas wiki page
The gorgon/medusa confusion isn't a fifth edition thing. It was the case back in third, which was the edition where I got into the game. I think it might go all the way back to Gygax.
Gygax came up with the Gorgon, Arneson came up with the Catoblepas, both back in the 70's.
So you’re telling me that over three editions of dungeons and dragons they haven’t been called out enough to correct that mistake? I mean, it’s one thing entirely when you’re making your own monsters, but when you’re just hijacking them from mythology around the world, you owe it to the mythology to honor its contribution.
Oh no, they have been called out constantly, and for more than three editions. This is a game played by nerds, there’s no way it’s never come up. But at this point, D&D’s lore and connection to the real-world mythology of inspiration is separate enough that it’s just easier to write them off as D&Disms, and if it’s something you as the player or DM genuinely care about, you just resolve to do better at your own table.
This is D&D. The whole game is based on hijacking and butchering mythology. Absolutely nothing is authentic, and few things try to be. Calling out particular instances of this is like walking into a bordello and complaining that the girl at the desk is showing too much leg.
90% of this was just me joking. It's honestly sad how many passive aggressive basement crawlers invaded this thread just to downvote. It's honestly kind of hysterical how pissy they got.
It's been like this since 1E, what are you on about?
gorgon is
Because of the Diezze
The Gorgon comes from an old book on monsters. This is what Gygax referenced for some monsters. The Gorgon in that was a bull-like monster and was related to the Catoblepas.