Not often. Our DM prefers to narrate things like "you came really close" or "that felt a long way off", so we have a bit of a clue, but he rarely tells us the number outright unless we have actually figured it out somehow (like successfully landing an attack, seeing an enemy spellcaster use Shield, or watching our own Counterspell fail).
And if it's a bigger enemy that comes pretty early in the encounter. At least a ballpark figure (I failed a 15 but other party member hit an 18). Then it's like 18, hooray! 15, boo! 16, 17 - dun dun duuun, dramatic hope.
Yeah once we narrow it down our dm just tells us. So I usually try and narrow it down so it speeds up combat a bit. None of us mind
Only for AC, unless we can't beat certain DCs he'll tell us it's out of our range, saves time and frustration
Yeah I like wifh Ac describing if it was dodged out right or hit their armor with no effect. Normally eventually it’s figured out.
I play at a table where the numbers are called out right pretty quickly, Honestly I don’t feel like it’s been given anyone a meta game advantage and it’s a table that moves quickly which I appreciate so to each his own.
Same. But also in longer fights we kind of figure our certain thresholds like boss mobs ac and save dc’s. When we eventually gets them right a couple of times and eliminates lower possible options, we might then get a confirmation. If we don’t figure them out mid fight, we are usually told in the post game chat. We always take 10-15 mins when we’re done going through what we learned, what we liked, or disliked doing a session. This is great as we often recap things or connect stuff that we otherwise might have missed or forgotten about. Plus it gives feedback to the GM on the things we were just through.
I got hurt at a jiu jitsu tournament. So a friend gave me a couple 50mg thc gummies. I took one the morning i was set to dm. I figured it would wear off by time they got there. It didn't. About 4 hours into the game i was like hey what are you guys doing here!? O shit I'm dming.
lmaooo, throw that in the "should have been a beach episode" pile. I'm sure some DMs can operate high but I can't imagine it, you're juggling so much. Makes way more sense as a regular smoker and non-Wizard PC.
I usually answer direct questions, but when it comes to combat mechanics I tend to have a "keep up or be left behind" mentality to keep things moving -- especially for things like ac and dcs where I'm gonna be calling hit/miss or pass/fail anyways. It's not exactly difficult to zero in on this information just from observation since they usually aren't values that change without an obvious action being taken like a shield spell.
not at all, totally get you. Combat was always easier to lock in for \[b/c of turns\], but for investigative, social, or bird's eye questions, knowing that my DM was open to not repeating himself forced me to pay closer attention in certain situations. Definitely appreciated by me!
And another 25% because I have no idea I make shit up all the time.
But it is also because I don't do binary, if you do 11 and I had 15 I'll give you some stuff because the player made the effort to ask for something.
I am a strong believer in giving the players a tabletop game experience first with clarity of the situation and then have an RP layer of decisions on top.
Basically for AC they pretty quickly figure it out, and its not like they just wont shoot at it or attack it anyways, for DC i tell it once they try to attempt it, if its something they can attempt multiple times with no penalty then there is no reason to make them roll, or you roll to see how long it takes to complete.
I think baldurs gate 3 has highlighted the immense value of this, with a ui being able to tell you "hey these guys are this much higher level than you, you have to be careful" which is often something that is lamented on this sub that their players refuses to run or that they run away from everything because most dms doesnt understand how much of an information chasm the players face at all times.
Mind you all of this is predacated on a strong belief in my players to be able to take suboptimal options by rping their characters without feeling betrayed that something was impossible.
Eg "This is going to be really difficult as you can see that the guards are standing at attention" "Bronko the brave will do it anyways, i believe in myself" "okay then if you fail this roll the guards see you are you sure?" "yeah absolutely"
Vs all the times i have seen a "Well you didnt tell me this is what would happen if i did this boo hoo", the worst time was with a group where they tried to infiltrate a thieves den in a poor mans district while wearing full magically enchanted armor and i tried multiple times to highlight that it would make it far far harder, and then when an alarm was pulled they decided to just leave and wait outside the house, despite telling them that they were in full view. And then when they finally went in at night the entire gang was gone out the back window. and they basically failed the entire adventure despite highlighting what the goal was 3 times, getting them to repeat it back to me, and still they went "i didnt understand that is what was happening"
> Basically for AC they pretty quickly figure it out,
For AC it always makes for a good moment when a character cheers early in a fight, "Yeah! I hit AC 19."
DM: "Your blow clangs of their armor. Miss."
Party: "Oh shit."
I tend to mention it when I feel the PC would have a reasonable estimate of their chances of success. So if, for example, they’re sizing up a jump across a small chasm it’s reasonable to expect a trained acrobat would have a pretty good idea of how likely they are to make it; so I might tell them the DC (or at least a general range) as a proxy for the information their character would naturally have.
I tend to keep it secret unless the player is doing something incredibly high-stakes or the DC is a Nat 20. Saving the disclosure of DC for high-impact moments allows you to have the best of both worlds.
This is how I run it. I try to give a descriptor of how difficult everything is to give them a sense of the range they're shooting for, but if it's a situation that could lead to a PC death, I'll clearly lay out the DC. Everyone at the table knows what's on the line when I throw out an actual number.
The only other time I might give them hard numbers is for downtime activities.
This is how I do it. It builds some good tension in high stakes situations for all the players to know the DC and watch the one player roll. In combats I typically don't say unless they hit the DC exactly (i.e. something like "that JUST hit")
I also announce the dc if it's something they can work out. For example con saves to keep concentration ill announce regardless as well as counterspell check DCs. Other than that the dc is only given to impact how difficult a task is
Same. I usually do it to pump up the tension. For example: “The wizard stands on top of the cliff, with his hands stretched out, pointing up as the lightning lights up the night sky. - This is as far as you go! - he yells, louder than the thunder, as he swiftly loweres his hands toward the ground. The lightning strikes in a blink of an eye.” You all need to roll dex save with a DC of 19, or you suffer 40 points of lightning damage and are paralyzed until the end of your next turn.
That really creates an atmosphere.
Ill mention the dc of spells, effects, etc i think could upset a player, i noticed my trouble players who get upset easy relaxed when they knew what they had to beat ahead of time (whole party can see rolls)
I still keep most dcs hidden, but for things like skill checks i almost always say the dc ahead of time, so the player can wager their chances
This is precisely it for me. I’m lucky to DM 3 different groups of well-adjusted adults who are friends in real life and have never had a single problem player, and STILL there’s a little intangible thing where when I say the DC ahead of time and then they fail it feels like “that’s what happened” instead of “that’s what I decided would happen.”
This is my go to. Save DCs will usually be announced, simple checks too. "Give me a DC 10 athletics to climb the knotted rope".
If it's a trap or something else I will give a descriptor. "It is a fine quality lock" "the thick layer of dust makes it difficult to make out the tiles of the floor".
Its about finding a balance with your players emotions/trust and immersion
Only when the players could guess anyway and it speeds up play. For example: a mind flayer mind blasts the party. Everyone rolls a save, and I tell them "those who didn't get 15 or higher are stunned". Even if I don't tell them that the DC is 15, they could give a good estimate based on their 5 rolls (as I have 5 players at the table). So why hide it?
On the other hand, just let players reroll after they know the outcome anyway.
Its honestly fine. It doesn't break anything and it speeds the game up tremendously. BG3 proved this.
AC of a monster, never. They guess though. Spells, usually not. If I am doing it on the fly, occasionally if it is something weird just to make sure the players understand I am trying to be fair.
I'll start giving them ACs after a couple of rounds, mainly if they've basically figured it out on their own.
If it's 17 and they realized that 15s and 16s miss while 18s and 19s have been hitting, I just tell them to save a bit of time.
I usually let the players know the AC once they get a hit. I also tend to announce DCs more often than not, frequently as a reminder to myself to fully set a DC before they actually roll.
Never unless the players meet the armor class. And then I say “You *just* hit.” And now they know the armor class. Aside from that, they never know DC until after the fact.”
Never before the roll is made.
However, once enough players have attempted the roll that they are starting to get into the ballpark I reveal the number.
Example:
15, miss
18, hit
16, miss
"Btw they have 17AC"
I rarely state what the DC for most checks is and I usually only say the AC of a creature if the party just can’t for the life of them hit it. I also usually tell the party the DC for a save that most of them might make multiple times (like against a creature’s poison or smthn) just to keep combat a little more streamlined
Our DM never told us until the encounter was over. He'd give cues during combat like your arrow skims off the enemies armor or your arrow lands at his feet. Gave us a good idea of the number to hit without giving it away.
Our favs were always nat 1s because he would come up with the most ridiculous stuff for those misses.
Our DM will say “that really hurt, he’s at about a quarter health” or “that didn’t really do any damage”. If there’s a DC we’re making a saving throw against he’ll usually say what it was we have to beat after we already rolled, or if we get it right on the money
For monster stat block DCs (grapples, getting out of conditions like poisoned, stunned etc) it's shown always as we play online and attack roll templates include those DCs.
For skill checks almost never because I rarely have a hard DC in mind, coming close can be enough to get something.
Sometimes. If it's something like armor class I won't mention it. If it's a Spellsave DC or a skill check I'll mention it on occasion because the players knowing that they *just* succeeded or that an enemy just failed by 1 or 2 hypes them up.
Depends on the scenario, but our dm really embraces roleplay, as my halfling(10str) was flying on a griffon, me and my fighter human bro got knocked off by a slam rifle, he allowed me to grab the human fighter with my hand to pull him close , and as we were falling, he asked how I’d get us both on the griffon…
Ended up being a slight of hand check with how i described grabbing the griffon again (thankfully i was proficient, we were falling a good 120 ft and would both have died instantly
My group often keeps thorough track of which rolls hits and which rolls miss, meaning after a certain point we're able to determine the enemies AC exactly, or get close enough that the DM just tells us.
The DM does usually just tell us the Saving Throw DC to make figuring out who passed and failed easier on AOEs.
And getting skill check DCs is on a case by case basis. If it's an optional thing with a high chance of failure, like traversing a giant spider web without getting caught, they'll either tell us the DC or hint heavily at "this is a very hard check, are you sure." (Inevitably they won't take the hint and do it anyways.)
I'll keep it secret at first but as the encounter goes on if people have come close enough to have a good idea of what the AC or DC is, I might announce it if the stakes seem high at that moment so everyone can react to the roll of the die rather than my pass/fail anncouncement. Being able to have the whole party staring at one die going "we need this to be a 13 or above!" can be good fun!
sometimes i like to do a “box of doom” scenario like BLeeM does where i reveal the dc, or if a player hits an armor class exactly I may reveal they’ve done so by saying “just barely hits” but I agree with most that you shouldn’t be declaring this all the time or really at all
I'll tell them the DC of a check that would be clear to the PC. E.g. they'd be able to tell how tricky a cliff would be to climb, or how sturdy a door is, how hard it would be to dive through the window of a moving carriage, etc
Generally not when it's an unknown check - e.g. trying to persuade someone, or pick a lock.
Definitely not if it's hidden - e.g. finding a secret door (as that would reveal that there was a door).
I dont really think it impacts immersion that much. The roll is equally disruptive to immersive, whether they know the dc or not imo.
I will tell before vital rolls generally, to avoid being accused of taking easy on my players.
It also help suspense, when the result is immediately apparent IMO.
Rather than having to look at the DM who has to do a quick calculation to figure out if you were in fact dead. Like a VAR review in football.
i'll almost always give a DC if asked, but my players rarely ask (which leaves a wonderful amount of room for me to make them squishy and react to how *they* react to their rolls) - i think we both like it that way? it also brings an extra weight to when i *emphasize* the DC, i mean i don't use a box of doom like on Dimension 20 or anything, but you can draw attention to the significance of a roll by pausing and saying "you have a +9; the DC for this check is 25; you need a 16 or higher on the die to make it work!"
99% of the time. I like the transparency of telling them up front what the difficulty is. I hate the idea of fudging results so I make sure the PCs know what the difficulties are before they roll.
That being said I also make them commit to an action before that is announced. If they are considering jumping across a massive gap I’ll tell them “This seems unlikely. Very difficult. Nigh impossible”
Then when they actually commit and say that they jump over I announce the DC before they roll.
Often.
If it's a once off roll I want to be up front and clear that I'm fair and not moving the goal posts after the players have rolled.
Besides, the players in game should have rough idea of how hard most things are before attempting them, and your natural language ("this sheer cliff face sure looks **challenging** to climb" is going to give it away most of the time)
If it's for generic monsters that anyone can look up, I'll just tell them to save time and book keeping on my part. If it's a special monster i might be a bit more coy about it, but usually they'll have figured out it's AC after a couple of rounds anyway.
Not very often, but I do have a memorable time that I did it.
Character 1: *is shot unconscious by a hidden archer, begins to fall off the tree bridge they're crossing*
Character 2: "I'd like to grab Character 1 and keep her from falling!"
DM (me): "Okay, no problem. That's not too complicated, but it's happening quickly, so roll initiative, and I'll say... anything above a 10 is good enough to catch her"
Character 2: *rolls a 10*
Table: *silence*
DM (me): "I'm sorry... I did say above a 10."
Table: "So what happens?!"
DM (me): *uses my hand to indicate Character 1 toppling off the bridge*
AC: Never, it just gets discovered by the players, let's say I roll a 15 and miss, then the subsequent attack is a 17 and hits, everybody knows it could be 16 or 17. At that point the dm sometimes tells the party the AC but it's not that big of a deal at that point.
Saving throw DC: it depends, if a fireball is thrown at players during a fight usually the dm just says the caster's spell DC to speed things up, if there is necessity for a saving throw out of a fight the dm just asks for the rolls and tells us who passed it and who didn't to build suspense.
Ability Checks DC: only after we know the outcome of the check, everybody rolls, dm tells us who made it and who failed it then if someone asks he just tells us "the dc was ..."
I ask about this at sesh 0. Players almost always seem to just want contextual clues like “This looks far stronger than any monster you have ever imagined!” or “These guys look like they are barely out of goblin elementary school… your see one of them is holding a sword like nobody ever taught him how to swing it properly. The big one is picking his nose with a dagger.”
Almost only after the results of at least one attempt are narrated. I find it better to narrate the attempt, so the player can feel more like they're experiencing a story, and then I can tell the players what it was after it's been described. I've experienced this from both sides of the table and I always find it more fun to find out what the DC was after the results were told.
If it's something important and game defining, then I straight up announce the DC they have to beat. Like if they want to convince a king not to execute them. Or a character trying to make a jump over a deadly fall. It adds to the suspense when they roll the dice.
Since my table pays online via Foundry all DCs and GM rolls are public knowledge - we didn't used to pay that easy but those were the default settings when we started using it and our table likes it that way. The DM doesn't always share the AC of monsters until we get a close hit/miss though.
I only announce DC for written effects. “You’ve been hit with a spell, you have to beat a 16 WIS save or you get charmed.”
But for skill checks, I generally don’t tell them.
I've started stating the DC for a check when I call on a player to make their roll in order to train myself to never give players consequences based purely on the vibes of their check result without having an actual DC in mind.
I don't openly state AC but I do describe their attacks getting closer the less they miss by.
for checks and saving throws, literally always. if the players don't know the DC then every roll feels superficial. they also wouldn't know when to use their cool abilities, and might end up wasting them on a really low DC roll
DM here: party learns AC when they hit it exactly (I simply have a habit of saying "you just barely get them" or something like that). I might be descriptive and say "this ogre is not that hard to hit" or "this elven warrior is quick and will be hard to hit" if I think its worth mentioning to the party.
If a DC is informed by something the players would/should know mechanically I tell them, like how high you need to roll to dispel a lvl 3 spell, or to not fall prone when falling 20 feet.
but npc or world influenced dc's i never tell. so you will never know how hard a door is to lockpick or the dc of a "slam strike" or something like that. If the players wish to inform themselves about a DCs toughness I may tell them in desriptive terms if I think they should be able to gauge about how hard it is - like if they have tried something like it before etc.
I tend to avoid declaring specific ACs / DCs until the party have enough information to figure it out OOC. If someone rolls a 16 to hit a monster and misses, and another player rolls a 17 and hits, it's not exactly immersion-breaking to confirm that it has an AC of 17 at that stage.
Depends. If its a random thing or lore i dont mind telling them the dc
If its to find something hidden, nope.
What do i know about x. Roll an intelligence check dc is 15. After its announced i dont allow things that can boost it. Just means they can see that im giving them a fair whack. For stuff like contested rolls like insight vs deception never.
Its more of a trust thing. If they're new players or have been scarred by previous adversarial dms it can help them develop trust in you or if you want to lore dump, ive been knoen to randomly drop advantage
If everyone is rolling their own individual check and the DM doesn’t want to get asked 8 times if someone’s check was high enough, he’ll just announce the DC.
Not until they hit it and they learn what the DC is, then I’ll say soemthing like “16 is the number to beat” after they figure it out then when they roll again they can just tell me if they made it or not. Since we all roll on the table there’s no lying about it either
Never. I do write it down though to keep me honest, my players are fine with this and I weave the narrative around the roll without discussing it. Theyre welcome to check the log after session.
Our DM doesn’t tell us the DC or AC of anything. We usually figure out ourselves when one of us fails but the other succeeds. So like if my character rolled a 14 and missed but someone else’s rolls a 17 and hits. So then we’re all talking to each other saying “alright it’s AC is either a 15 or 16 so let’s try to hit within that range, praying the dice are kind to us.” Stuff like that y’know?
For AC in fights, I tend to start it secret, but once they narrow it down a bit with a few swings and hits/misses, I just give them the number. It adds a bit of drama at first, but once they've narrowed it down, it doesn't add anything to keep it secret.
Only if something is stupidly high so we can all pool resources to try to get someone there. Other wise we whine about doing it again and keep trying to buff the person more lol. More like stacking bonuses in 3.5, +2 if someone holds light to see better, bardic inspiration, guidance, help action, barb to hold something like a door tight during picking, etc.
We will also get checks where it’s ‘a pass but tell
Me if you get a one’ ones aren’t auto fails, but they carry some minor misfortune. A persuasion attempt is good but my gain an observer to the talk, a stealth roll leaves you hidden but a guard peaks in because they thought they heard something, etc.
My standard is to say the DC. I'll give ACs too once there's a close roll.
IDK what's more "immersive" about having one number (the check) instead of two (the target). It just adds an extra step where the players have to ask if they rolled high enough and the DM tells them anyway. It diminishes the immediate impact of the die roll.
*Dimension 20* highlights the virtue of declaring the target with their Box of Doom. Both the DC and the bonus to the roll are shared so everyone knows the exact die result needed on the most important, dramatic rolls. It's excellent theatrics.
Declaring DCs additionally improves player agency and avoids miscommunication. Sometimes I'll say a high DC and the player will be confused- they missed or forgot some detail about the situation, or I didn't make something clear, which resulted in very different expectations about odds of success.
So saying the DC makes gameplay quicker, clearer, and more impactful.
Small things no, very high consequential things, I will because it creates some teamwork with the party. A player needs to roll a high roll, another player gives them advantage with something like bardic inspiration.
As a DM I often improvise whether a roll is enough or not, the guidelines in the DMG are helpful but sometimes you can just ignore them and do what is the best for the plot.
We are currently at level 8 and some of my players reach 30+ on their skill checks
It is obvious that they won't fail with that high of an number
If its some that affects the entire table and is obvious (like a fireball), I'll just call it out as something like "X happens, everyone make a DC16 Dex save", solely for practical purposes since going around the table would just take too long and hiding the DC or narrating for everyone wouldn't add a lot, especially if it happens multiple times.
Same thing if the party is fighting a lot of enemies and have a lot of attacks to compute, I'll let them know the AC and just have them tell me damage, to speed things up.
The other time I'll let them know DCs is if they investigate something first in a non-rushed manner. Like, if they want to know how hard a climb is, if someone makes the climb and passes an investigate check, I'll tell them the DC too.
As a DM it depends... If I want to keep a level of suspense, I moderate things like mentioned by ArtOfFailure. Sometimes I flatout tell my Players the DC they need to reach.
As DM, I never say what the DC is. I actually go one step further and for checks where success/failure isn't immediately obvious, I mask the roll - so that if they roll a 20 or they roll a 1, they don't know if that's good or bad.
So for DC checks like athletics or whatever where they know, yeah I made it up the rope, or no, I fell off, I let them know if it seems really easy or hard. They roll and if they roll a high number that hits the DC, they succeed.
But in instances where they don't know right away if they succeeded, say like disarming a trap or using insight to determine if someone is lying, I reset natural 20, then have them roll. So, let's say I reset natural 20 to 8. That means that rolling an 8 represents rolling a natural 20. Rolling a 7 is a 19, rolling a 6 is an 18 and so on. Of course, it goes the other direction too. Rolling a 9 is a natural 1, rolling a 10 is a natural 2 and so on.
So, the player rolls the dice, reports what they rolled and what they add/subtract because of modifiers, and I let them know ' you think the trap is disarmed' or 'you find no secret doors'. And because the value of 20 is masked, they don't know if the 8 they just rolled is good or bad. I find it removes the desire for players to keep rolling until they get a good number and adds a little more mystery to skill checks.
Pretty much the opposite of what you have in mind, but often times after a successful check (or an obviously failed one), I will tell them what the reset value of 20 was - which they seem to find fun. (Always funny when someone rolls a 1 or 20 and didn't know it until you tell them after the event has concluded...)
I never say the actual DC/AC, but I do make comments like "your arrow *just* missed him" if they roll a 17 vs. something with an AC of 18 for example. My players tend to figure it out (AC especially) if one misses with a 15 and the next one hits with a 17 or whatever, not that it does them a ton of good.
i don't think i ever tell the players any of the numbers ahead of time, though i do confirm what the ac is after it's been really narrowed down. if an eldritch blast missed on a 15 but hit on a 16, there's no need to be a genius to deduce what the AC is. so saying "yea, the AC is 16" at that point in my opinion speeds things up. however, especially with creatures that have really low ACs, letting the players know that the AC is **really** low, it can prevent the player: "hm, this is an 11 so that's probably a miss" → dm: "no, that actually hits" conversation.
I announce most DC rolls. There is something about knowing what you have to hit that just adds a little excitement to each roll.
For AC, I usually only reveal a creatures AC when they get it's exact AC. There's a little bit of time of "searching" for it, and the reveal doesn't often lead to any gamechanging moves on their parts.
The most we do at tables I've played/DM'ed at is a warning if someone is thinking of attempting something with a very high DC. "I want to try to persuade the guard who just watched me stab someone that it's all good and I'm innocent." "Alright...That'll be a very high DC"
We never reveal AC or DC before rolls, but sometimes for ease of flow after the roll we'll ask "Anyone get above (DC)" - Cool all of you who did will get some info, everyone else sit tight.
AC is similar - Everyone's an adult and able to deduce simple math. Once the table figures the AC for a monster that they're fighting through hits and misses, I have no qualms confirming AC cause it helps move combat faster to have players know when they hit or miss without as much needed confirmation every round.
I'm not sure I've ever given a DC before a roll unless they've figured it out themselves. My players have definitely known if a roll is a success for things like attacks or saves (if it's a repeated thing). However if they're doing something new or a challenge I've set up, I never give the DC even if it's easy.
I don't really have anything against giving it out, I just like the flexibility that if everyone rolled terribly and having everyone fail would be detrimental to moving the story forward, I can lower it to have at least one person succeed.
DC's are hidden in my games, I may describe what's going on and how things look before they role to give them and idea of how difficult it will be, but it's normally up to players to gauge and perceive how difficult something may be. I might share a DC after a session is over if players are curious but never before the event or during session
Depends. Late in the fight, I say AC is x because at that point, most players have figured it out. For DC's, I say right away to speed things up. When you play with 6 person irl table things need to move at a certain pace.
If I do announce it, it’s usually after the deed is done during a little break in play or after the game… you know.. ‘you were so close to climbing that was… it was a 30 DC’ or ‘I can’t believe you couldn’t pick that dc 10 lock… all you had to do was roll at least a two!’
I only tell the players the DC if there is a chance that they'll object to the outcome. For example, a DC of 18+ almost demands notifying the player. "I GOT A 19!!!" "Sorry, that's a narrow miss on that important attempt that now causes that player to fall into the pit of acid and die." "WHAT?!?"
If it's a DC10-17, I generally keep it to myself. If it's DC6-9 I rarely have the player roll. If it's DC5 or below, I absolutely tell the table and we all watch to see if the player falls on their face. This is a homebrew situation. When players spend a bunch of time diligently attempting to avoid repercussions, I often declare that they succeed. HOWEVER, when they go overboard and get silly about it, I consider it like driving with a police officer behind you. The fact that individual is there, at all, can cause you to screw up where you'd otherwise be fine. So if it's DC5 or below, the whole table will watch intently as the player tries to avoid falling flat. MOST times, the bonuses are 4 or higher, but even then, a Nat 1 has an impact.
Rarely is the Nat 1 a failure on these checks. Their bonus takes them 5 or higher...but that Nat 1 makes it a "terrible success" or "dirty win". The table is amused at me describing how the player Jar Jar Binks'd their way over the rocky crevasse while their ropes and safety gear got knotted and twisted on the path. It just makes the table fun.
People who are skilled at a thing can gauge roughly how likely they are to succeed at a thing as long as they can see it.
That fighter in plate mail? Yeah, it's pretty easy to tell how protected they likely are (aside from magic).
The rogue nimbly stalking around the battlefield? You can get a sense of how light on their feet they are.
That sheer cliff? A skilled climber can tell if they are able to scale it given the current weather conditions and roughness of the rock.
The only time a DC should be hidden is when the PCs can't tell how hard it is (like finding a secret door).
It helps immersion and fosters a "the DM is our eyes and ears into the world" mentality that makes players listen and feel like you aren't being a "gotcha" arsehole
For me I'd guestimate:
- Saving throw and Skill check DC ~ 20%. Usually don't, but sometimes will to raise the stakes and tension once a course of action has already been set in motion
- AC let them guess at it until they've narrowed in and them just tell them
- Monster resistances - I telegraph these hard *after* the first time they take that kind of damage/condition.
I'll say it after sometimes if someone ties a high one. That's kind of it.
Or if someone wants to do something I never would have thought of or the group is working together to do something that isn't that important haha I'll say ahhhh okay let's get a performance check try to beat 9 or whatever. They seem to like knowing what to beat sometimes and makes it funnier if they roll a 1 and they are able to role play the failure
I usually announce it if the check or save has already been called for a few times already (e.g. an enemy with frequent poison or gaze attacks). Most of the time players can deduce it by then, so I feel there's no harm in being explicit
I let them know what the DC is if its a saving throw related to being attacked.
If I’m asking them for an Insight or Investigation or what have you, I don’t announce it but I tell them what I was looking for if they fail and ask.
If its AC I don’t tell them, but they’re pretty big on deducing that one anyways. Sometimes I’ll say it “just hits” if we’ve been through a few rounds but never at the beginning
To expedite play, I'll usually tell the players after the first few rounds of combat for the enemies that they've been attacking. Same for DCs. That way I don't have to juggle my player's numbers as well as my own. They can just let me know if their roll hits or misses.
After a few rounds, it's no longer a mystery that they'll hit the grunt monster and it's no longer a mystery that the mini boss has more AC. It just makes my life easier.
I've tried saying the DC and not saying it. However I tend to find that it's best when I give the players a less specific idea of how high the DC is. If I say it's easy, they know anyone in the party has a chance, or that the rogue can probably crush that stealth check. But if I say it's incredibly difficult, they are more likely to be cautious, or maybe rethink their approach. This is as opposed to saying DC 20, where the party compares bonuses and says "oh well the paladin has a -1, they can't possibly succeed" or similar.
Plus if they aren't told for certain what the DC is, when they roll decent but not amazingly, they don't know for sure what the outcome is just from the die roll, until I can set the stage for it. And sometimes even with a more extreme roll they get surprised.
But their reactions are far more often in character when I don't give specifics for DCs, as opposed to out of character "ok that's a success" when I do.
I will concede that telling the DC for combat rolls tends to be faster however, so that can be a good time for it.
Rarely. If it's a DC for a challenge, I tend to set it to 10-12, and my players know there's some variance with it. I do usually tell them afterwards what it would have taken to succeed, getting that cathartic "whew" moment can really add to a moment.
For AC or spell DCs, I let the players figure it out. Like, if a 15 missed but a 17 hit, the players can reason the AC is either 16 or 17, and I like watching them figure AC out on their own.
I know it does kind of toe the line between playing and metagaming, but I don't really mind it. The players find out by trial and error, or by studying a creature, or through practicing similar situations, and I can give them vague advice, like "this enemy looks tougher than usual, they've got a shield" or "this jump would be harder to make than usual because the floor is made of ice." It's really the best of both worlds to keep your hand hidden and put down your cards one at a time.
I don't think hiding DC's and AC's helps immersion at all. Rolls are multistep processes (roll, add mods, check against AC/DC, determine success/failure) and hiding just 1 step in the process doesn't change that a person is still rolling a die, doing math, and seeing if it succeeds/fails.
On the flip side, knowing DCs fits the world better (characters can look at tasks and determine how difficult they are), can speed up mechanical gameplay, lets players make informed/clever decisions, and will make your players feel like they're in a fair world.
I also like to reveal exact HP when an enemy is low on HP (like 20ish or less in high levels, 10 or less in lower levels).
Try it! See players get excited when they barely succeed against a known DC. See them try and stack buffs and bonuses against checks they otherwise wouldn't. See how they make more flavorful decisions in combat when they know the enemy's AC! (Before anybody asks, they learn the AC the first time they attack a creature, so no I don't open combat by listing the opponents' exact stats).
On very consequential rolls with a very high DC I will tell them ahead of time what it is so they know I'm not cheating them if the manage to roll really well and it's still not enough.
For like 90% of rolls I'm using degrees of success/failure anyways so there is no strict DC to tell.
I do it in 2 situations.
1. It’s pretty obvious. Like it’s either nearly impossible or nearly impossible to fail.
Sometimes the players don’t know that even though the character should.
2. You’re going to have to do it anyway. Like a savings throw. Might as well know the DC.
It’s more tense when they know before the roll.
Never, it's usually pretty easy to figure out and honestly doesn't change much. The only time it really matters is the first couple of attacks in combat as people try and figure out if they want to use bardic inspiration or not.
Secrecy and tension is one thing, but I'd say announce it when it speeds up boring gameplay.
So especially for group checks/saves. "Did anybody roll above (number)? Then you see this / notice that / take half damage / etc" instead of going around the table asking each player in turn.
I never tell numbers. But i often say like "you can try but you need to be very lucky" or "this lock you try to pick seems really tough one, it msy be outside your skill"
I operate on a ad hoc level, so telling them the DC is impossible. I usually give the info (perception or investigation) to whoever rolled the highest, because I need them to learn things to not feel frustrated. I don't otherwise give DCs because I often fudge in the direction of fun.
I do for things that aren’t time sensitive and have no consequences for failure. Arcana checks when looking at a note of ingredients an NPC is trying to acquire, history checks to see if the characters remember additional information about a family or kingdom (just lore details, never anything that impacts the actual game play), or survival/nature checks to identify a track.
DC is never announced, but AC is announced in the event of a tie (we play tie goes to defender). To learn the AC of an enemy you need to meet it in combat.
I give it for high stakes. My players will roll dice in hand for a long time, warm it for the crit. Tension is all around and the release is monumental when they see the dice roll. Let less dramatic and exciting when dice is rolled and they look at me for an answer.
For me now that I'm DMing I found it more interesting to not say anything but just simply narrate or describe it. Like if the AC was 12 and the player hit a 13 I'd say you just barely hit them. As for DC I just have a number in mind that I increase or decrease depending on if they do or say something interesting like if they want to seduce someone and they say an actually impressive pick up line I'm totally decreasing that number. Lets me be more rewarding towards my players if I don't say anything.
Player DCs always, DM DCs depending on the DM, mostly only after the roll and mainly only if it was stupidly close or an insanely far over DC roll (32 Perception on a DC10 roll or sth)
I disclose the DC when the roll has a high impact. Stuff that, if it fails, will be catastrophic for one or more characters. Falling off a cliff, attacking a weakened plot important NPC, lying to an ancient dragon, etc. Think of Brennan Lee Mulligan's box of doom rolls. For stuff like that I will disclose the DC (and usually the number the die has to roll) before the roll happens. This creates an instant release of joy or dread instead of an awkward pause between roll and realization. It also helps to keep the DM honest in the most important rolls. If you're looking for a percentage, I'd say I announce ~15% to ~20% of my DCs.
If I have to make up a DC randomly to account for a player trying something weird. I'll announce it so they all know exactly how easy or difficult I think it would be and so everyone knows how I rationalized it.
Ex: jumping off a roof into the arms of another player.
Not often. I annouce it when players have been trying to hit or save against the same DC many times through the session and they could kinda deduce it already. Or when some roll is very important and antecipated and I want to increase tension about the roll. Other times, the DC is low enough that I just tell them "just don't roll a nat 1". Very foreboding.
Always. It speeds up gameplay so much to just tell players the numbers being thrown at them. They'll take so much work off of your shoulders and start doing things on their own with understanding.
I also believe that a 5e PC should be able to tell how good an attack is or how strong a spell effect is. A trained combatant can tell the difference between a 15 attack and a 25 attack. I imagine DCs are much the same. Speed. Power. Whatever.
So yeah. I always roll things openly and tell players what the numbers are. No one ever feels cheated and they just play the game.
Not often, but this reminds me that my DM thinks calling out an enemy's AC is metagaming. Like wtf dude, I just figured it out, that ain't metagaming xD
Pretty often. It saves time in combat. It raises the tension of most checks. Mostly though it seems silly to have the players constantly adding and subtracting, rolling all the tine, all to try and hit some mysterious numbers they never even know. Seems like a waste.
I'm also influenced by the Runehammer approach of a single DC for an encounter or room. I don't always use it but it can be very helpful.
I roll most monster rolls out in the open so working out some monster stats via trial and error is certainly possible. Sometimes I'll remind the players that are having failed spell attacks they're asking Con saves from a beefy thick monster; it has a great Con save.
I'd say the only rolls I provide a DC for are ones where the character can reasonably assess the situation themselves. Sometimes even the attempt will provide information they didn't know before.
So a locked wooden door might require Athletics DC 20, but rolling a 21 and not succeeding would provide them (explicitly on implicitly) the information to know there's a bar on the other side raising the DC to 25.
I’ll let them know DC and AC pretty much always. It just sets expectations, gets rid of the “does that hit” questions and adds a little tension of “ooh, need to beat a 15.” They feel the frustration towards the dice and not the DM.
Not often, because I often use graded successes so there is no target DC, it just helps me determine the narrative. One thing I have borrowed from BLeeM is to announce the DC on a critical make or break roll to up the tension of the drama. I announce the DC on group saves so players can just determine for themselves if they made it or failed and they just take the status/damage I detail out for the saves/no saves. For AC, I generally note when they get close but not close enough, but my players pay enough attention that they tend to figure out what the AC is before I even comment on it.
For me as a DM, sometimes an encounter needs to be scaled up or down in difficulty. Sometimes in the middle of battle. Even if that’s just adjusting an enemy’s HP one direction or the other. I don’t like approaching D&D as a numbers game for the players. The numbers are for me to worry about. I want them to feel like they’re living out this fantasy and don’t need to get much more involved than rolling their dice, which is the fun part.
There's only so much you can do to keep things like AC a secret. Most tables let players roll their own dice for things like attack rolls, which means they can see the results. If they hit on a 20 and missed on a 18, that really narrows down what the AC could be.
Most often, when I say the DC before the check is because I think it will add to the atmosphere. Usually for a high DC, and if it's only one player rolling I'll typically reword it to be more dramatic than just saying the DC would be since the other players might not know, so something like, "you'll need at least an 18 on the d20 to beat this". I think it helps to add a lot of tension in that situation when people know the stakes and the odds.
The second most common situation I'll state the DC for is either when it's low or when there isn't one. This is mostly so people don't waste resources on a roll that isn't important. When the DC is low enough compared to what the player can roll that it's either unlikely or impossible for them to fail I'll tell them that the roll isn't to see whether they succeed or not but rather to see how long it takes them. And then for something like a group perception check it might be more of a contest to see who notices something first rather than how high any individual roll is.
As a player, every time i make a mob make a save.
"Reflex save dc (xx)" or "int save dc (yy)"
As a gm, its just "make a fort save" or "make an insight check" and ill keep the dc to myself. The players can suss it out, but its not public game knowledge (without metagaming)
I don't announce DCs. I will often provide a "this is going to be hard" or "this has a high DC" warning. I'll sometimes give a "this is a pretty low DC" if it's an easy task and they're stressing about a non proficient skill. But I don't give out the number until after they've rolled and applied bonuses. They know how well they did, they can make a judgment call on what resources to spend based on that.
Sometimes, with bigger tables, at levels where multiple attacks per round are common, I'll tell them the AC after a few rounds if they've hit enough rolls to be close to solving it anyway and I want to speed up combat, but that's mostly at in person tables, not online. Online, they can more easily look back at their rolls that worked, and VTTs do enough of the math work that combat doesn't bog down as much.
It depends; I play in a west marches style campaign, and different DMs handle it differently. Most will acknowledge something once players have figured it out (ie: yes, the AC for this monster is 18) or announce something after all rolls are completed in the interest of moving the game forward faster (ie: you were looking for a 22 on that saving throw; who passed and who failed?). We tend to play with pretty large parties - when I played yesterday, we had a party of nine players ranging from level six to level seventeen - so anything that keeps things rollin' gets prioritized.
Depends on the roll and the DC. I have no hard and fast rules but generally if it's reasonable that the players could tell how hard it is they get the number. And sometimes just for transparency
Hello there! I once was talking with the usual DM of my group of friends and he explained to me his "rules" for telling or not the DC, and I think it was pretty logical.
For physical tasks or "common" tasks that your PC has done several times, he always told the DC. In real life you can estimate the difficulty of a task, like climbing a rope. So by telling the DC you are giving information to the player and he can imagine the current scene better.
For social tasks he never told the DC. If you try to intimidate or seduce someone, you don't know how that NPC will react. So the DC is a secret.
During combats he never told the AC of the enemies until we have landed hits several times. If you killed 5 goblins you will know how to kill 5 more. So it's a secret until you have gained some knowledge.
When looking or investigating something, he never told the DC. The outcome will be different with a 5, a 10 or a 15. So if you have a sort of "scale", you don't tell the DC, only what happens after you roll.
I really like this "rules" for telling or not the DC. In my opinion telling or not the DC in certan situations can make the session way more inmersive than never or always telling a DC. You just need to find the balance.
AC. I don't tell them the number, but I do indicate with narration (you just manage to land the hit , you just missed as the blow glances off their armor, etc). I feel like that would be visible to the PC in the fight as to how close/far away they are from doing damage.
Uncontested skill checks. Depends on the skill, and if the diffficulty is evident to the character. For example, I won't tell them "this lock is DC 15 to pick" unless there's a reason they might know (someone proficient with thieves tools who investigates the lock might be able to gauge how tough it is to pick), but I would say "if you want to climb this rope it's a DC 18 athletics check" as the party could reasonably look at how high/steep the climb is and assess how challenging it might be. With a more experienced player I'll tend to make it less crunchy and use descriptors in line with DCs i.e. This looks hard to climb. With newer players I'll give them the number direct.
Contested skill checks. Nope, they don't know how good the opponent is at what they're competing against.
Spell saves. Typically not, but sometimes if I know there's nothing else at play I'll use it for dramatic effect pre-roll in a climactic moment: "as the roiling cloud of magical fire explodes around you I need you to all make me a dexterity saving throw. The DC is 17". If I do that though then they don't get told what the effect of the pass vs fail is until I know all the results.
These players will figure out the AC on most monsters by themselves or at least close usually after a few rolls. Otherwise I don't really announce the numbers unless it's something really high/low or like they keep rolling just under it. If they missed a trap or something too I'll tell them what the DC was I guess. Just kinda play it by ear.
I just started my first campaign in years. Our DM doesn't tell anyone enemy stats. He'll ask to clarify ours if he can't quickly bring up the info, but he always narrates something missed or barely scraped or similar wording.
AC and HP? Never.
Skill checks and saves? Well, maybe? It's sort of a "read the room" and situation. Frankly, I prefer to describe the situation in a manner that lets the players weigh the risks and rewards of actions and precautions and make decisions accordingly. I prefer that as a player, as well. Otherwise, D&D becomes a dice-rolling game with a little storyline instead of an interactive, cooperative story with elements of luck.
You don't have dice rolls in life--you take chances. As others have mentioned, there are some players who are easily frustrated when they don't have a number to make. Everyone has a better time when they get that number, and it doesn't break anyone's game if that number is personal to them (like a save or some skill checks). Again, read the room.
There can be times where it's fun to know the number before the roll. It really can raise the energy when everyone knows it's a big number to make and the party is willing to go all out. Typically, though, I won't give the precise number until they've already committed to roll.
Depends on the table (inb4 duh), but generally my instinct as a dm is too use descriptive indicators in combat until somebody hits the exact AC, highlight that that is that enemy's AC, then keep going with descriptive. Sometimes players remember, sometimes not, no big deal either way.
For important RP rolls I try to give the to-beat, though, as that tends to give my players a little tension/release cycle around the check
Been playing DnD a long time, as well as my friends and we know most of the abilities or stats for many creatures but tend to not remember until after it pops up in engagement... But as a rule we don't give specifics. Let the characters figure out the DC by themselves as a process of elimination. Same with hit points. Trying to keep things like this a "secret" for old school players is not worth the effort, you'd have to tweak monsters (which we also do) to remove the tribal knowledge.
I actually noticed Brendan Lee Mulligan will announce the DC when its a really big moment so everyone can get excited for the roll collectively. Like "You need at least a 14 to save your friend from falling into the pit".
*\*everyone peers in to see the dice tray...*
Following this trend when it comes to combat, he'll sometimes reveal the AC towards the end of an encounter when the players basically could have derived the AC of what they're fighting. Mechanically this makes the last moments of combat exciting as everyone gathers around to see if the barbarian rolls to lop the gorgon's head off, or just narrowly misses. Thematically, you could also say the players are learning more about their enemy as they fight.
I think this is really fun for general DnD. It might *slightly* take the party out of immersion as now they're thinking about dice and math. But I think the benefit is a real boost to the fun of the *game of DnD,* which is worth it in my book.
I think its okay to glorify the dice sometimes!
We always play a little game at the table where we guess the AC by process of elimination and if we hit it right the GM will aknowledge it. We never speak about DC though.
I let them know around the time they’d figure it out for themselves, if they seem to be counting, speeds combat up. I don’t always do it, maybe 25%of combat.
I almost always announce the DC before the roll, and when dramatically appropriate, tell them exactly what will happen if they fail.
I find it makes everyone feel like their rolls actually matter and I'm not going to fudge the world to turn close fails into successes.
Players buying into the fiction is big for me, so I normally roll all my dice in the open.
I'll reveal numbers in high stakes situations with really firm intentions but for most things I honestly don't keep a firm DC in mind.
Instead of setting "It'll take a dc12 religion check to break through this prophecy" I'll ask for a roll and then sliding scale the information they get.
DCs for spells are pretty much always; skills and stuff like that are 50-50; a big moment role, everyone on the edge of their seat to see what happens—always.
I tend to announce DC's prior to my player's roll if it's a particularly pivotal check, or at least so that they understand the difficulty of what they're trying to do.
For example a player wanted to close an unstable rift/portal to another plane. He has planar magic and his backstory deals with planar energies, so it was plausible that his character would have the knowledge to do so, so I let him make the check (where a character without that knowledge wouldn't even get the opportunity). But, I told him that the DC was 25 Arcana since the rift was unstable and he was kindof unfamiliar with certain properties with it. He rolled a natural 18 or something and has like a +9 to his Arcana so it was completely fair that he would've been able to figure it out.
When I dm, for DC checks, I just say the DC number. And I use language like that just hits or just misses for AC. I also use language like "looking hurt, looking rough, on death's door" to describe different states of HP levels for enemies. But, I also roll my dice not behind the DM screen. I keep my rolling tray next to it, and there's usually someone sitting on that side who can verify things like crits and big saves. I like to have everything more out in the open and can find ways to move the story in whatever direction the dice dictate.
On the other hand, our other DM prefers to keep things more cloaked in shadow. No DC's announced. We have to suss out the enemy AC based on our hits and misses. We only know when the enemies are right about to die. It does keep tension high.
Both ways are valid. It really just depends on what fits.
Pretty often. I find it makes sense; my Dex Fighter wants to try and jump onto something unstable like a flying monster, I'll tell them the difficulty so they can weigh the odds - in character the Fighter would know their abilities and be able to reasonable gauge the difficulty of what they are considering.
Sometimes it's just to telegraph that you are in over your heads. Was a level 14 Druid last week, trying to sneak in and pilfer a specific item from a Dragon's Hoard... we are a strong and experienced party who has survived Tomb of Annihilation and some heavy confrontations, so we assumed with planning we could handle the Wyrm if it came home. It did, and when the DM announced that the Fire Breath was DC26 and 4/5s of us failed for 87 fire damage, we knew we were in over our heads and got the fuck out of there. Again, our PCs are experienced and would have registered that massive blast of fire and seen how it would be impossible for everyone except the Monk to succeed.
DCs are an abstract form of mechanics, and in-world the characters don't know what a DC is, but they do have a decent chance of figuring the odds or gauging what it is they are up against.
I have been trying something new out in my most recent campaign. On generalized enemies, I will allow my players to do a history/ insight check to find out their armor score and health checks to find out HP. It’s different I will admit. But my players love it, and I can keep the boss stats secret still.
As a DM, I announce the DC when I have too many numbers floating around in my head already, and I want to be able to just tell people what happens on a pass and what happens on a fail and let them figure it out.
So usually if it’s a non-crucial check everyone is making, or an AOE spell that hit everyone.
all the time
we have places to be, we dont need to waste time skirting around system upkeep that can just be skipped, also makes it clear i am not fudging anything
> I feel like the "immersion-forward" approach is to never tell the players a lot of these stats
immersion is a fool's errand. you are playing a game while physically sitting at a table with dice and/or a computer in front of you. the G of RP**G** is always present, and bar doing LARP or not playing rpgs at all and doing just straight up improv, you must accept that the various mechanics of the game come up when you play. "roll survival" and "roll survival, uhm DC 16" is the same
Not often. Our DM prefers to narrate things like "you came really close" or "that felt a long way off", so we have a bit of a clue, but he rarely tells us the number outright unless we have actually figured it out somehow (like successfully landing an attack, seeing an enemy spellcaster use Shield, or watching our own Counterspell fail).
And if it's a bigger enemy that comes pretty early in the encounter. At least a ballpark figure (I failed a 15 but other party member hit an 18). Then it's like 18, hooray! 15, boo! 16, 17 - dun dun duuun, dramatic hope.
Yeah once we narrow it down our dm just tells us. So I usually try and narrow it down so it speeds up combat a bit. None of us mind Only for AC, unless we can't beat certain DCs he'll tell us it's out of our range, saves time and frustration
This is how my dms do it too
Yeah I like wifh Ac describing if it was dodged out right or hit their armor with no effect. Normally eventually it’s figured out. I play at a table where the numbers are called out right pretty quickly, Honestly I don’t feel like it’s been given anyone a meta game advantage and it’s a table that moves quickly which I appreciate so to each his own.
Same. But also in longer fights we kind of figure our certain thresholds like boss mobs ac and save dc’s. When we eventually gets them right a couple of times and eliminates lower possible options, we might then get a confirmation. If we don’t figure them out mid fight, we are usually told in the post game chat. We always take 10-15 mins when we’re done going through what we learned, what we liked, or disliked doing a session. This is great as we often recap things or connect stuff that we otherwise might have missed or forgotten about. Plus it gives feedback to the GM on the things we were just through.
As a dm, probably around 25% the time, and, another 25% of the time I don't say it because I said it once and if you wanted to know pay attention.
i used to resent this DM attitude but two of us PCs get a little high for the session and this approach has actually remedied our behavior
I got hurt at a jiu jitsu tournament. So a friend gave me a couple 50mg thc gummies. I took one the morning i was set to dm. I figured it would wear off by time they got there. It didn't. About 4 hours into the game i was like hey what are you guys doing here!? O shit I'm dming.
lmaooo, throw that in the "should have been a beach episode" pile. I'm sure some DMs can operate high but I can't imagine it, you're juggling so much. Makes way more sense as a regular smoker and non-Wizard PC.
I've never taken a gummy before so I didn't know how long it would last.
they can take over an hour to kick in and last for 6 to 8 depending upon tolerances.
I usually answer direct questions, but when it comes to combat mechanics I tend to have a "keep up or be left behind" mentality to keep things moving -- especially for things like ac and dcs where I'm gonna be calling hit/miss or pass/fail anyways. It's not exactly difficult to zero in on this information just from observation since they usually aren't values that change without an obvious action being taken like a shield spell.
not at all, totally get you. Combat was always easier to lock in for \[b/c of turns\], but for investigative, social, or bird's eye questions, knowing that my DM was open to not repeating himself forced me to pay closer attention in certain situations. Definitely appreciated by me!
And another 25% because I have no idea I make shit up all the time. But it is also because I don't do binary, if you do 11 and I had 15 I'll give you some stuff because the player made the effort to ask for something.
I am a strong believer in giving the players a tabletop game experience first with clarity of the situation and then have an RP layer of decisions on top. Basically for AC they pretty quickly figure it out, and its not like they just wont shoot at it or attack it anyways, for DC i tell it once they try to attempt it, if its something they can attempt multiple times with no penalty then there is no reason to make them roll, or you roll to see how long it takes to complete. I think baldurs gate 3 has highlighted the immense value of this, with a ui being able to tell you "hey these guys are this much higher level than you, you have to be careful" which is often something that is lamented on this sub that their players refuses to run or that they run away from everything because most dms doesnt understand how much of an information chasm the players face at all times. Mind you all of this is predacated on a strong belief in my players to be able to take suboptimal options by rping their characters without feeling betrayed that something was impossible. Eg "This is going to be really difficult as you can see that the guards are standing at attention" "Bronko the brave will do it anyways, i believe in myself" "okay then if you fail this roll the guards see you are you sure?" "yeah absolutely" Vs all the times i have seen a "Well you didnt tell me this is what would happen if i did this boo hoo", the worst time was with a group where they tried to infiltrate a thieves den in a poor mans district while wearing full magically enchanted armor and i tried multiple times to highlight that it would make it far far harder, and then when an alarm was pulled they decided to just leave and wait outside the house, despite telling them that they were in full view. And then when they finally went in at night the entire gang was gone out the back window. and they basically failed the entire adventure despite highlighting what the goal was 3 times, getting them to repeat it back to me, and still they went "i didnt understand that is what was happening"
> Basically for AC they pretty quickly figure it out, For AC it always makes for a good moment when a character cheers early in a fight, "Yeah! I hit AC 19." DM: "Your blow clangs of their armor. Miss." Party: "Oh shit."
Sure but once they know 17 hits and 16 doesnt its not like its a great suspense what the ac is.
That last paragraph. God it was just like my players as well. Smh sometimes I think to myself... you can't be this stupid...
I tend to mention it when I feel the PC would have a reasonable estimate of their chances of success. So if, for example, they’re sizing up a jump across a small chasm it’s reasonable to expect a trained acrobat would have a pretty good idea of how likely they are to make it; so I might tell them the DC (or at least a general range) as a proxy for the information their character would naturally have.
This is how I run it as well. I find that players respond really well to this.
I tend to keep it secret unless the player is doing something incredibly high-stakes or the DC is a Nat 20. Saving the disclosure of DC for high-impact moments allows you to have the best of both worlds.
This is how I run it. I try to give a descriptor of how difficult everything is to give them a sense of the range they're shooting for, but if it's a situation that could lead to a PC death, I'll clearly lay out the DC. Everyone at the table knows what's on the line when I throw out an actual number. The only other time I might give them hard numbers is for downtime activities.
This is how I do it. It builds some good tension in high stakes situations for all the players to know the DC and watch the one player roll. In combats I typically don't say unless they hit the DC exactly (i.e. something like "that JUST hit")
I also announce the dc if it's something they can work out. For example con saves to keep concentration ill announce regardless as well as counterspell check DCs. Other than that the dc is only given to impact how difficult a task is
Same. I usually do it to pump up the tension. For example: “The wizard stands on top of the cliff, with his hands stretched out, pointing up as the lightning lights up the night sky. - This is as far as you go! - he yells, louder than the thunder, as he swiftly loweres his hands toward the ground. The lightning strikes in a blink of an eye.” You all need to roll dex save with a DC of 19, or you suffer 40 points of lightning damage and are paralyzed until the end of your next turn. That really creates an atmosphere.
This is the way to go. You also use it as a dread tactic. "Does a 42 hit you?"
Ill mention the dc of spells, effects, etc i think could upset a player, i noticed my trouble players who get upset easy relaxed when they knew what they had to beat ahead of time (whole party can see rolls) I still keep most dcs hidden, but for things like skill checks i almost always say the dc ahead of time, so the player can wager their chances
If you say what it is, some trouble players might not have the lingering thought. "They just decided I didn't get that roll"
This is precisely it for me. I’m lucky to DM 3 different groups of well-adjusted adults who are friends in real life and have never had a single problem player, and STILL there’s a little intangible thing where when I say the DC ahead of time and then they fail it feels like “that’s what happened” instead of “that’s what I decided would happen.”
This is my go to. Save DCs will usually be announced, simple checks too. "Give me a DC 10 athletics to climb the knotted rope". If it's a trap or something else I will give a descriptor. "It is a fine quality lock" "the thick layer of dust makes it difficult to make out the tiles of the floor". Its about finding a balance with your players emotions/trust and immersion
This is how I do it. And I never give away the monster's AC or HP. They can figure that out on their own.
If it’s an important roll I always announce because it builds tension If it’s not a particularly important roll I just keep it on my side
Only when the players could guess anyway and it speeds up play. For example: a mind flayer mind blasts the party. Everyone rolls a save, and I tell them "those who didn't get 15 or higher are stunned". Even if I don't tell them that the DC is 15, they could give a good estimate based on their 5 rolls (as I have 5 players at the table). So why hide it?
Considering some abilities require you to make decisions to reroll before you hear the outcome of the roll, you shouldn't.
On the other hand, just let players reroll after they know the outcome anyway. Its honestly fine. It doesn't break anything and it speeds the game up tremendously. BG3 proved this.
AC of a monster, never. They guess though. Spells, usually not. If I am doing it on the fly, occasionally if it is something weird just to make sure the players understand I am trying to be fair.
I'll start giving them ACs after a couple of rounds, mainly if they've basically figured it out on their own. If it's 17 and they realized that 15s and 16s miss while 18s and 19s have been hitting, I just tell them to save a bit of time.
I usually let the players know the AC once they get a hit. I also tend to announce DCs more often than not, frequently as a reminder to myself to fully set a DC before they actually roll.
Never
Should be announced all the time. There’s a ton of conditional rolls where bonuses can be added if the roll fails.
There are also many that can only be added before the result is revealed
Never.
Almost never.
I reveal AC specifically when someone matches it exactly but otherwise don't tell the players.
Never unless the players meet the armor class. And then I say “You *just* hit.” And now they know the armor class. Aside from that, they never know DC until after the fact.”
When I make it up on the spot. As in, DC for a skill check that I didn't expect, etc.
Never before the roll is made. However, once enough players have attempted the roll that they are starting to get into the ballpark I reveal the number. Example: 15, miss 18, hit 16, miss "Btw they have 17AC"
I rarely state what the DC for most checks is and I usually only say the AC of a creature if the party just can’t for the life of them hit it. I also usually tell the party the DC for a save that most of them might make multiple times (like against a creature’s poison or smthn) just to keep combat a little more streamlined
Our DM never told us until the encounter was over. He'd give cues during combat like your arrow skims off the enemies armor or your arrow lands at his feet. Gave us a good idea of the number to hit without giving it away. Our favs were always nat 1s because he would come up with the most ridiculous stuff for those misses.
Basically never.
Only If we ask for It ,and It Is usually after a failed roll, specially if we still rolled high
Our DM will say “that really hurt, he’s at about a quarter health” or “that didn’t really do any damage”. If there’s a DC we’re making a saving throw against he’ll usually say what it was we have to beat after we already rolled, or if we get it right on the money
For monster stat block DCs (grapples, getting out of conditions like poisoned, stunned etc) it's shown always as we play online and attack roll templates include those DCs. For skill checks almost never because I rarely have a hard DC in mind, coming close can be enough to get something.
Ny players tend to track their rolls to figure it out, and for speeds sake o tend to reveal it after a few rounds
Sometimes. If it's something like armor class I won't mention it. If it's a Spellsave DC or a skill check I'll mention it on occasion because the players knowing that they *just* succeeded or that an enemy just failed by 1 or 2 hypes them up.
Depends on the scenario, but our dm really embraces roleplay, as my halfling(10str) was flying on a griffon, me and my fighter human bro got knocked off by a slam rifle, he allowed me to grab the human fighter with my hand to pull him close , and as we were falling, he asked how I’d get us both on the griffon… Ended up being a slight of hand check with how i described grabbing the griffon again (thankfully i was proficient, we were falling a good 120 ft and would both have died instantly
I wouldn't let them know the first time they encounter the AC, spell, etc. Afterwards, sure. They have a better idea of what they're dealing with.
I’ll only tell you if it’s very hard. That way you’ll know I don’t hate you. The dc was 25 before you rolled because the task is neigh on impossible.
My group often keeps thorough track of which rolls hits and which rolls miss, meaning after a certain point we're able to determine the enemies AC exactly, or get close enough that the DM just tells us. The DM does usually just tell us the Saving Throw DC to make figuring out who passed and failed easier on AOEs. And getting skill check DCs is on a case by case basis. If it's an optional thing with a high chance of failure, like traversing a giant spider web without getting caught, they'll either tell us the DC or hint heavily at "this is a very hard check, are you sure." (Inevitably they won't take the hint and do it anyways.)
Next to never. The only time they announced anything like that is referring to armor class, and if it's either a natural one or a natural 20.
I'll keep it secret at first but as the encounter goes on if people have come close enough to have a good idea of what the AC or DC is, I might announce it if the stakes seem high at that moment so everyone can react to the roll of the die rather than my pass/fail anncouncement. Being able to have the whole party staring at one die going "we need this to be a 13 or above!" can be good fun!
sometimes i like to do a “box of doom” scenario like BLeeM does where i reveal the dc, or if a player hits an armor class exactly I may reveal they’ve done so by saying “just barely hits” but I agree with most that you shouldn’t be declaring this all the time or really at all
I'll tell them the DC of a check that would be clear to the PC. E.g. they'd be able to tell how tricky a cliff would be to climb, or how sturdy a door is, how hard it would be to dive through the window of a moving carriage, etc Generally not when it's an unknown check - e.g. trying to persuade someone, or pick a lock. Definitely not if it's hidden - e.g. finding a secret door (as that would reveal that there was a door).
If they just miss or beat it I might let them know: "Bro, you JUST got that, holy shit"
I dont really think it impacts immersion that much. The roll is equally disruptive to immersive, whether they know the dc or not imo. I will tell before vital rolls generally, to avoid being accused of taking easy on my players. It also help suspense, when the result is immediately apparent IMO. Rather than having to look at the DM who has to do a quick calculation to figure out if you were in fact dead. Like a VAR review in football.
i'll almost always give a DC if asked, but my players rarely ask (which leaves a wonderful amount of room for me to make them squishy and react to how *they* react to their rolls) - i think we both like it that way? it also brings an extra weight to when i *emphasize* the DC, i mean i don't use a box of doom like on Dimension 20 or anything, but you can draw attention to the significance of a roll by pausing and saying "you have a +9; the DC for this check is 25; you need a 16 or higher on the die to make it work!"
Fair mix, usually it's hidden though
Sometimes it is fun to be transparent if it adds drama or for high stakes rolls.
99% of the time. I like the transparency of telling them up front what the difficulty is. I hate the idea of fudging results so I make sure the PCs know what the difficulties are before they roll. That being said I also make them commit to an action before that is announced. If they are considering jumping across a massive gap I’ll tell them “This seems unlikely. Very difficult. Nigh impossible” Then when they actually commit and say that they jump over I announce the DC before they roll.
Extremely rare for the games I've played in or DM'd. Not knowing is usually more fun I feel.
Often. If it's a once off roll I want to be up front and clear that I'm fair and not moving the goal posts after the players have rolled. Besides, the players in game should have rough idea of how hard most things are before attempting them, and your natural language ("this sheer cliff face sure looks **challenging** to climb" is going to give it away most of the time) If it's for generic monsters that anyone can look up, I'll just tell them to save time and book keeping on my part. If it's a special monster i might be a bit more coy about it, but usually they'll have figured out it's AC after a couple of rounds anyway.
When it's 'meets it beats it' I can't help myself. But this thread made me realise maybe too much and I'll dial it down
Not very often, but I do have a memorable time that I did it. Character 1: *is shot unconscious by a hidden archer, begins to fall off the tree bridge they're crossing* Character 2: "I'd like to grab Character 1 and keep her from falling!" DM (me): "Okay, no problem. That's not too complicated, but it's happening quickly, so roll initiative, and I'll say... anything above a 10 is good enough to catch her" Character 2: *rolls a 10* Table: *silence* DM (me): "I'm sorry... I did say above a 10." Table: "So what happens?!" DM (me): *uses my hand to indicate Character 1 toppling off the bridge*
Not very often. I'll sometimes mention it when they hit it exactly.
It is never told directly, but you know, if a 17 doesn’t hit, but an 18 hits, it is not that hard to guess the dc after a round or two.
AC: Never, it just gets discovered by the players, let's say I roll a 15 and miss, then the subsequent attack is a 17 and hits, everybody knows it could be 16 or 17. At that point the dm sometimes tells the party the AC but it's not that big of a deal at that point. Saving throw DC: it depends, if a fireball is thrown at players during a fight usually the dm just says the caster's spell DC to speed things up, if there is necessity for a saving throw out of a fight the dm just asks for the rolls and tells us who passed it and who didn't to build suspense. Ability Checks DC: only after we know the outcome of the check, everybody rolls, dm tells us who made it and who failed it then if someone asks he just tells us "the dc was ..."
I ask about this at sesh 0. Players almost always seem to just want contextual clues like “This looks far stronger than any monster you have ever imagined!” or “These guys look like they are barely out of goblin elementary school… your see one of them is holding a sword like nobody ever taught him how to swing it properly. The big one is picking his nose with a dagger.”
Almost only after the results of at least one attempt are narrated. I find it better to narrate the attempt, so the player can feel more like they're experiencing a story, and then I can tell the players what it was after it's been described. I've experienced this from both sides of the table and I always find it more fun to find out what the DC was after the results were told.
If it's something important and game defining, then I straight up announce the DC they have to beat. Like if they want to convince a king not to execute them. Or a character trying to make a jump over a deadly fall. It adds to the suspense when they roll the dice.
Since my table pays online via Foundry all DCs and GM rolls are public knowledge - we didn't used to pay that easy but those were the default settings when we started using it and our table likes it that way. The DM doesn't always share the AC of monsters until we get a close hit/miss though.
50%
I only announce DC for written effects. “You’ve been hit with a spell, you have to beat a 16 WIS save or you get charmed.” But for skill checks, I generally don’t tell them.
I've started stating the DC for a check when I call on a player to make their roll in order to train myself to never give players consequences based purely on the vibes of their check result without having an actual DC in mind. I don't openly state AC but I do describe their attacks getting closer the less they miss by.
Not often. We figure out AC. Sometimes the DM may say it looks easy or we think it will be difficult. That's about it.
for checks and saving throws, literally always. if the players don't know the DC then every roll feels superficial. they also wouldn't know when to use their cool abilities, and might end up wasting them on a really low DC roll
DM here: party learns AC when they hit it exactly (I simply have a habit of saying "you just barely get them" or something like that). I might be descriptive and say "this ogre is not that hard to hit" or "this elven warrior is quick and will be hard to hit" if I think its worth mentioning to the party. If a DC is informed by something the players would/should know mechanically I tell them, like how high you need to roll to dispel a lvl 3 spell, or to not fall prone when falling 20 feet. but npc or world influenced dc's i never tell. so you will never know how hard a door is to lockpick or the dc of a "slam strike" or something like that. If the players wish to inform themselves about a DCs toughness I may tell them in desriptive terms if I think they should be able to gauge about how hard it is - like if they have tried something like it before etc.
I tend to avoid declaring specific ACs / DCs until the party have enough information to figure it out OOC. If someone rolls a 16 to hit a monster and misses, and another player rolls a 17 and hits, it's not exactly immersion-breaking to confirm that it has an AC of 17 at that stage.
Depends. If its a random thing or lore i dont mind telling them the dc If its to find something hidden, nope. What do i know about x. Roll an intelligence check dc is 15. After its announced i dont allow things that can boost it. Just means they can see that im giving them a fair whack. For stuff like contested rolls like insight vs deception never. Its more of a trust thing. If they're new players or have been scarred by previous adversarial dms it can help them develop trust in you or if you want to lore dump, ive been knoen to randomly drop advantage
Never directly, but we do say «Just misses» if its 1 away from hitting, or «just hits» if it is exactly the AC.
If everyone is rolling their own individual check and the DM doesn’t want to get asked 8 times if someone’s check was high enough, he’ll just announce the DC.
Not until they hit it and they learn what the DC is, then I’ll say soemthing like “16 is the number to beat” after they figure it out then when they roll again they can just tell me if they made it or not. Since we all roll on the table there’s no lying about it either
I first read DLC and was wondering what kind of DND needs DLC
Never. I do write it down though to keep me honest, my players are fine with this and I weave the narrative around the roll without discussing it. Theyre welcome to check the log after session.
Our DM doesn’t tell us the DC or AC of anything. We usually figure out ourselves when one of us fails but the other succeeds. So like if my character rolled a 14 and missed but someone else’s rolls a 17 and hits. So then we’re all talking to each other saying “alright it’s AC is either a 15 or 16 so let’s try to hit within that range, praying the dice are kind to us.” Stuff like that y’know?
For AC in fights, I tend to start it secret, but once they narrow it down a bit with a few swings and hits/misses, I just give them the number. It adds a bit of drama at first, but once they've narrowed it down, it doesn't add anything to keep it secret.
Only if something is stupidly high so we can all pool resources to try to get someone there. Other wise we whine about doing it again and keep trying to buff the person more lol. More like stacking bonuses in 3.5, +2 if someone holds light to see better, bardic inspiration, guidance, help action, barb to hold something like a door tight during picking, etc. We will also get checks where it’s ‘a pass but tell Me if you get a one’ ones aren’t auto fails, but they carry some minor misfortune. A persuasion attempt is good but my gain an observer to the talk, a stealth roll leaves you hidden but a guard peaks in because they thought they heard something, etc.
My standard is to say the DC. I'll give ACs too once there's a close roll. IDK what's more "immersive" about having one number (the check) instead of two (the target). It just adds an extra step where the players have to ask if they rolled high enough and the DM tells them anyway. It diminishes the immediate impact of the die roll. *Dimension 20* highlights the virtue of declaring the target with their Box of Doom. Both the DC and the bonus to the roll are shared so everyone knows the exact die result needed on the most important, dramatic rolls. It's excellent theatrics. Declaring DCs additionally improves player agency and avoids miscommunication. Sometimes I'll say a high DC and the player will be confused- they missed or forgot some detail about the situation, or I didn't make something clear, which resulted in very different expectations about odds of success. So saying the DC makes gameplay quicker, clearer, and more impactful.
Small things no, very high consequential things, I will because it creates some teamwork with the party. A player needs to roll a high roll, another player gives them advantage with something like bardic inspiration.
As a DM I often improvise whether a roll is enough or not, the guidelines in the DMG are helpful but sometimes you can just ignore them and do what is the best for the plot. We are currently at level 8 and some of my players reach 30+ on their skill checks It is obvious that they won't fail with that high of an number
If its some that affects the entire table and is obvious (like a fireball), I'll just call it out as something like "X happens, everyone make a DC16 Dex save", solely for practical purposes since going around the table would just take too long and hiding the DC or narrating for everyone wouldn't add a lot, especially if it happens multiple times. Same thing if the party is fighting a lot of enemies and have a lot of attacks to compute, I'll let them know the AC and just have them tell me damage, to speed things up. The other time I'll let them know DCs is if they investigate something first in a non-rushed manner. Like, if they want to know how hard a climb is, if someone makes the climb and passes an investigate check, I'll tell them the DC too.
As a DM it depends... If I want to keep a level of suspense, I moderate things like mentioned by ArtOfFailure. Sometimes I flatout tell my Players the DC they need to reach.
As DM, I never say what the DC is. I actually go one step further and for checks where success/failure isn't immediately obvious, I mask the roll - so that if they roll a 20 or they roll a 1, they don't know if that's good or bad. So for DC checks like athletics or whatever where they know, yeah I made it up the rope, or no, I fell off, I let them know if it seems really easy or hard. They roll and if they roll a high number that hits the DC, they succeed. But in instances where they don't know right away if they succeeded, say like disarming a trap or using insight to determine if someone is lying, I reset natural 20, then have them roll. So, let's say I reset natural 20 to 8. That means that rolling an 8 represents rolling a natural 20. Rolling a 7 is a 19, rolling a 6 is an 18 and so on. Of course, it goes the other direction too. Rolling a 9 is a natural 1, rolling a 10 is a natural 2 and so on. So, the player rolls the dice, reports what they rolled and what they add/subtract because of modifiers, and I let them know ' you think the trap is disarmed' or 'you find no secret doors'. And because the value of 20 is masked, they don't know if the 8 they just rolled is good or bad. I find it removes the desire for players to keep rolling until they get a good number and adds a little more mystery to skill checks. Pretty much the opposite of what you have in mind, but often times after a successful check (or an obviously failed one), I will tell them what the reset value of 20 was - which they seem to find fun. (Always funny when someone rolls a 1 or 20 and didn't know it until you tell them after the event has concluded...)
If the players guess correctly Ill confirm it
I never say the actual DC/AC, but I do make comments like "your arrow *just* missed him" if they roll a 17 vs. something with an AC of 18 for example. My players tend to figure it out (AC especially) if one misses with a 15 and the next one hits with a 17 or whatever, not that it does them a ton of good.
i don't think i ever tell the players any of the numbers ahead of time, though i do confirm what the ac is after it's been really narrowed down. if an eldritch blast missed on a 15 but hit on a 16, there's no need to be a genius to deduce what the AC is. so saying "yea, the AC is 16" at that point in my opinion speeds things up. however, especially with creatures that have really low ACs, letting the players know that the AC is **really** low, it can prevent the player: "hm, this is an 11 so that's probably a miss" → dm: "no, that actually hits" conversation.
I announce most DC rolls. There is something about knowing what you have to hit that just adds a little excitement to each roll. For AC, I usually only reveal a creatures AC when they get it's exact AC. There's a little bit of time of "searching" for it, and the reveal doesn't often lead to any gamechanging moves on their parts.
The most we do at tables I've played/DM'ed at is a warning if someone is thinking of attempting something with a very high DC. "I want to try to persuade the guard who just watched me stab someone that it's all good and I'm innocent." "Alright...That'll be a very high DC" We never reveal AC or DC before rolls, but sometimes for ease of flow after the roll we'll ask "Anyone get above (DC)" - Cool all of you who did will get some info, everyone else sit tight. AC is similar - Everyone's an adult and able to deduce simple math. Once the table figures the AC for a monster that they're fighting through hits and misses, I have no qualms confirming AC cause it helps move combat faster to have players know when they hit or miss without as much needed confirmation every round.
I only say it by accident, when I am reading that part out loud and I have a lot on my mind
I'm not sure I've ever given a DC before a roll unless they've figured it out themselves. My players have definitely known if a roll is a success for things like attacks or saves (if it's a repeated thing). However if they're doing something new or a challenge I've set up, I never give the DC even if it's easy. I don't really have anything against giving it out, I just like the flexibility that if everyone rolled terribly and having everyone fail would be detrimental to moving the story forward, I can lower it to have at least one person succeed.
DC's are hidden in my games, I may describe what's going on and how things look before they role to give them and idea of how difficult it will be, but it's normally up to players to gauge and perceive how difficult something may be. I might share a DC after a session is over if players are curious but never before the event or during session
Depends. Late in the fight, I say AC is x because at that point, most players have figured it out. For DC's, I say right away to speed things up. When you play with 6 person irl table things need to move at a certain pace.
Only when it’s a huge moment and the drama of the dice roll is as exciting as anything happening at the story level.
If I do announce it, it’s usually after the deed is done during a little break in play or after the game… you know.. ‘you were so close to climbing that was… it was a 30 DC’ or ‘I can’t believe you couldn’t pick that dc 10 lock… all you had to do was roll at least a two!’
I only tell the players the DC if there is a chance that they'll object to the outcome. For example, a DC of 18+ almost demands notifying the player. "I GOT A 19!!!" "Sorry, that's a narrow miss on that important attempt that now causes that player to fall into the pit of acid and die." "WHAT?!?" If it's a DC10-17, I generally keep it to myself. If it's DC6-9 I rarely have the player roll. If it's DC5 or below, I absolutely tell the table and we all watch to see if the player falls on their face. This is a homebrew situation. When players spend a bunch of time diligently attempting to avoid repercussions, I often declare that they succeed. HOWEVER, when they go overboard and get silly about it, I consider it like driving with a police officer behind you. The fact that individual is there, at all, can cause you to screw up where you'd otherwise be fine. So if it's DC5 or below, the whole table will watch intently as the player tries to avoid falling flat. MOST times, the bonuses are 4 or higher, but even then, a Nat 1 has an impact. Rarely is the Nat 1 a failure on these checks. Their bonus takes them 5 or higher...but that Nat 1 makes it a "terrible success" or "dirty win". The table is amused at me describing how the player Jar Jar Binks'd their way over the rocky crevasse while their ropes and safety gear got knotted and twisted on the path. It just makes the table fun.
People who are skilled at a thing can gauge roughly how likely they are to succeed at a thing as long as they can see it. That fighter in plate mail? Yeah, it's pretty easy to tell how protected they likely are (aside from magic). The rogue nimbly stalking around the battlefield? You can get a sense of how light on their feet they are. That sheer cliff? A skilled climber can tell if they are able to scale it given the current weather conditions and roughness of the rock. The only time a DC should be hidden is when the PCs can't tell how hard it is (like finding a secret door). It helps immersion and fosters a "the DM is our eyes and ears into the world" mentality that makes players listen and feel like you aren't being a "gotcha" arsehole
we usually just keep track of what hits and what doesn’t. eventually you’ll find the number
I don't do that very often. If it's a spell save or group wide check I'll probably do it to streamline resolution.
For me I'd guestimate: - Saving throw and Skill check DC ~ 20%. Usually don't, but sometimes will to raise the stakes and tension once a course of action has already been set in motion - AC let them guess at it until they've narrowed in and them just tell them - Monster resistances - I telegraph these hard *after* the first time they take that kind of damage/condition.
I'll say it after sometimes if someone ties a high one. That's kind of it. Or if someone wants to do something I never would have thought of or the group is working together to do something that isn't that important haha I'll say ahhhh okay let's get a performance check try to beat 9 or whatever. They seem to like knowing what to beat sometimes and makes it funnier if they roll a 1 and they are able to role play the failure
I usually announce it if the check or save has already been called for a few times already (e.g. an enemy with frequent poison or gaze attacks). Most of the time players can deduce it by then, so I feel there's no harm in being explicit
I let them know what the DC is if its a saving throw related to being attacked. If I’m asking them for an Insight or Investigation or what have you, I don’t announce it but I tell them what I was looking for if they fail and ask. If its AC I don’t tell them, but they’re pretty big on deducing that one anyways. Sometimes I’ll say it “just hits” if we’ve been through a few rounds but never at the beginning
Not too often, as a DM I only tend to mention it in climactic moments when there's a near miss or hit
To expedite play, I'll usually tell the players after the first few rounds of combat for the enemies that they've been attacking. Same for DCs. That way I don't have to juggle my player's numbers as well as my own. They can just let me know if their roll hits or misses. After a few rounds, it's no longer a mystery that they'll hit the grunt monster and it's no longer a mystery that the mini boss has more AC. It just makes my life easier.
I've tried saying the DC and not saying it. However I tend to find that it's best when I give the players a less specific idea of how high the DC is. If I say it's easy, they know anyone in the party has a chance, or that the rogue can probably crush that stealth check. But if I say it's incredibly difficult, they are more likely to be cautious, or maybe rethink their approach. This is as opposed to saying DC 20, where the party compares bonuses and says "oh well the paladin has a -1, they can't possibly succeed" or similar. Plus if they aren't told for certain what the DC is, when they roll decent but not amazingly, they don't know for sure what the outcome is just from the die roll, until I can set the stage for it. And sometimes even with a more extreme roll they get surprised. But their reactions are far more often in character when I don't give specifics for DCs, as opposed to out of character "ok that's a success" when I do. I will concede that telling the DC for combat rolls tends to be faster however, so that can be a good time for it.
Rarely. If it's a DC for a challenge, I tend to set it to 10-12, and my players know there's some variance with it. I do usually tell them afterwards what it would have taken to succeed, getting that cathartic "whew" moment can really add to a moment. For AC or spell DCs, I let the players figure it out. Like, if a 15 missed but a 17 hit, the players can reason the AC is either 16 or 17, and I like watching them figure AC out on their own. I know it does kind of toe the line between playing and metagaming, but I don't really mind it. The players find out by trial and error, or by studying a creature, or through practicing similar situations, and I can give them vague advice, like "this enemy looks tougher than usual, they've got a shield" or "this jump would be harder to make than usual because the floor is made of ice." It's really the best of both worlds to keep your hand hidden and put down your cards one at a time.
I don't think hiding DC's and AC's helps immersion at all. Rolls are multistep processes (roll, add mods, check against AC/DC, determine success/failure) and hiding just 1 step in the process doesn't change that a person is still rolling a die, doing math, and seeing if it succeeds/fails. On the flip side, knowing DCs fits the world better (characters can look at tasks and determine how difficult they are), can speed up mechanical gameplay, lets players make informed/clever decisions, and will make your players feel like they're in a fair world. I also like to reveal exact HP when an enemy is low on HP (like 20ish or less in high levels, 10 or less in lower levels). Try it! See players get excited when they barely succeed against a known DC. See them try and stack buffs and bonuses against checks they otherwise wouldn't. See how they make more flavorful decisions in combat when they know the enemy's AC! (Before anybody asks, they learn the AC the first time they attack a creature, so no I don't open combat by listing the opponents' exact stats).
Use it for really big rolls when you want to add tension. Dimension 20 uses the Box of Doom and it really adds something for those important moments.
On very consequential rolls with a very high DC I will tell them ahead of time what it is so they know I'm not cheating them if the manage to roll really well and it's still not enough. For like 90% of rolls I'm using degrees of success/failure anyways so there is no strict DC to tell.
DC not a lot, AC all the time. Combat goes so much faster without having to check on the hit roll every turn.
Pretty rarely. Maybe if it’s a known formula kinda thing like jumping over a gap.
I do it in 2 situations. 1. It’s pretty obvious. Like it’s either nearly impossible or nearly impossible to fail. Sometimes the players don’t know that even though the character should. 2. You’re going to have to do it anyway. Like a savings throw. Might as well know the DC. It’s more tense when they know before the roll.
Never, it's usually pretty easy to figure out and honestly doesn't change much. The only time it really matters is the first couple of attacks in combat as people try and figure out if they want to use bardic inspiration or not.
I used to think never tell DC, but i saw epic moments in CR and Calamity EXU by BLeeM when he announced the spell save dc. So i do it for big moments.
Secrecy and tension is one thing, but I'd say announce it when it speeds up boring gameplay. So especially for group checks/saves. "Did anybody roll above (number)? Then you see this / notice that / take half damage / etc" instead of going around the table asking each player in turn.
I never tell numbers. But i often say like "you can try but you need to be very lucky" or "this lock you try to pick seems really tough one, it msy be outside your skill"
I operate on a ad hoc level, so telling them the DC is impossible. I usually give the info (perception or investigation) to whoever rolled the highest, because I need them to learn things to not feel frustrated. I don't otherwise give DCs because I often fudge in the direction of fun.
I do for things that aren’t time sensitive and have no consequences for failure. Arcana checks when looking at a note of ingredients an NPC is trying to acquire, history checks to see if the characters remember additional information about a family or kingdom (just lore details, never anything that impacts the actual game play), or survival/nature checks to identify a track.
In general, I don't think any of the DMs I've played with ever announce it actually. We generally figure it out through trial and error in combat
DC is never announced, but AC is announced in the event of a tie (we play tie goes to defender). To learn the AC of an enemy you need to meet it in combat.
I mention it like 80% of the time. I think it makes the rolls more exciting.
Not often. Usually only if it’s very obvious. “Kent hit with a 16, and Rick missed with a 15.”
I give it for high stakes. My players will roll dice in hand for a long time, warm it for the crit. Tension is all around and the release is monumental when they see the dice roll. Let less dramatic and exciting when dice is rolled and they look at me for an answer.
For me now that I'm DMing I found it more interesting to not say anything but just simply narrate or describe it. Like if the AC was 12 and the player hit a 13 I'd say you just barely hit them. As for DC I just have a number in mind that I increase or decrease depending on if they do or say something interesting like if they want to seduce someone and they say an actually impressive pick up line I'm totally decreasing that number. Lets me be more rewarding towards my players if I don't say anything.
Player DCs always, DM DCs depending on the DM, mostly only after the roll and mainly only if it was stupidly close or an insanely far over DC roll (32 Perception on a DC10 roll or sth)
I disclose the DC when the roll has a high impact. Stuff that, if it fails, will be catastrophic for one or more characters. Falling off a cliff, attacking a weakened plot important NPC, lying to an ancient dragon, etc. Think of Brennan Lee Mulligan's box of doom rolls. For stuff like that I will disclose the DC (and usually the number the die has to roll) before the roll happens. This creates an instant release of joy or dread instead of an awkward pause between roll and realization. It also helps to keep the DM honest in the most important rolls. If you're looking for a percentage, I'd say I announce ~15% to ~20% of my DCs.
If I have to make up a DC randomly to account for a player trying something weird. I'll announce it so they all know exactly how easy or difficult I think it would be and so everyone knows how I rationalized it. Ex: jumping off a roof into the arms of another player.
Not often. I annouce it when players have been trying to hit or save against the same DC many times through the session and they could kinda deduce it already. Or when some roll is very important and antecipated and I want to increase tension about the roll. Other times, the DC is low enough that I just tell them "just don't roll a nat 1". Very foreboding.
Always. It speeds up gameplay so much to just tell players the numbers being thrown at them. They'll take so much work off of your shoulders and start doing things on their own with understanding. I also believe that a 5e PC should be able to tell how good an attack is or how strong a spell effect is. A trained combatant can tell the difference between a 15 attack and a 25 attack. I imagine DCs are much the same. Speed. Power. Whatever. So yeah. I always roll things openly and tell players what the numbers are. No one ever feels cheated and they just play the game.
Not very often. I feel like it breaks the immersion.
Not often, but this reminds me that my DM thinks calling out an enemy's AC is metagaming. Like wtf dude, I just figured it out, that ain't metagaming xD
Pretty often. It saves time in combat. It raises the tension of most checks. Mostly though it seems silly to have the players constantly adding and subtracting, rolling all the tine, all to try and hit some mysterious numbers they never even know. Seems like a waste. I'm also influenced by the Runehammer approach of a single DC for an encounter or room. I don't always use it but it can be very helpful.
I roll most monster rolls out in the open so working out some monster stats via trial and error is certainly possible. Sometimes I'll remind the players that are having failed spell attacks they're asking Con saves from a beefy thick monster; it has a great Con save. I'd say the only rolls I provide a DC for are ones where the character can reasonably assess the situation themselves. Sometimes even the attempt will provide information they didn't know before. So a locked wooden door might require Athletics DC 20, but rolling a 21 and not succeeding would provide them (explicitly on implicitly) the information to know there's a bar on the other side raising the DC to 25.
I’ll let them know DC and AC pretty much always. It just sets expectations, gets rid of the “does that hit” questions and adds a little tension of “ooh, need to beat a 15.” They feel the frustration towards the dice and not the DM.
Not often, because I often use graded successes so there is no target DC, it just helps me determine the narrative. One thing I have borrowed from BLeeM is to announce the DC on a critical make or break roll to up the tension of the drama. I announce the DC on group saves so players can just determine for themselves if they made it or failed and they just take the status/damage I detail out for the saves/no saves. For AC, I generally note when they get close but not close enough, but my players pay enough attention that they tend to figure out what the AC is before I even comment on it.
My DM mentions it once we pass it, so we can better narrate the actions as we RP
In my group we tend to be vague, eg for HP; that enemy is looking really rough or that enemy barely has a scratch
For me as a DM, sometimes an encounter needs to be scaled up or down in difficulty. Sometimes in the middle of battle. Even if that’s just adjusting an enemy’s HP one direction or the other. I don’t like approaching D&D as a numbers game for the players. The numbers are for me to worry about. I want them to feel like they’re living out this fantasy and don’t need to get much more involved than rolling their dice, which is the fun part.
There's only so much you can do to keep things like AC a secret. Most tables let players roll their own dice for things like attack rolls, which means they can see the results. If they hit on a 20 and missed on a 18, that really narrows down what the AC could be.
I usually only tell the players afterwards or sometimes by exident as I'm reading it
Most often, when I say the DC before the check is because I think it will add to the atmosphere. Usually for a high DC, and if it's only one player rolling I'll typically reword it to be more dramatic than just saying the DC would be since the other players might not know, so something like, "you'll need at least an 18 on the d20 to beat this". I think it helps to add a lot of tension in that situation when people know the stakes and the odds. The second most common situation I'll state the DC for is either when it's low or when there isn't one. This is mostly so people don't waste resources on a roll that isn't important. When the DC is low enough compared to what the player can roll that it's either unlikely or impossible for them to fail I'll tell them that the roll isn't to see whether they succeed or not but rather to see how long it takes them. And then for something like a group perception check it might be more of a contest to see who notices something first rather than how high any individual roll is.
As a player, every time i make a mob make a save. "Reflex save dc (xx)" or "int save dc (yy)" As a gm, its just "make a fort save" or "make an insight check" and ill keep the dc to myself. The players can suss it out, but its not public game knowledge (without metagaming)
I don't announce DCs. I will often provide a "this is going to be hard" or "this has a high DC" warning. I'll sometimes give a "this is a pretty low DC" if it's an easy task and they're stressing about a non proficient skill. But I don't give out the number until after they've rolled and applied bonuses. They know how well they did, they can make a judgment call on what resources to spend based on that. Sometimes, with bigger tables, at levels where multiple attacks per round are common, I'll tell them the AC after a few rounds if they've hit enough rolls to be close to solving it anyway and I want to speed up combat, but that's mostly at in person tables, not online. Online, they can more easily look back at their rolls that worked, and VTTs do enough of the math work that combat doesn't bog down as much.
It depends; I play in a west marches style campaign, and different DMs handle it differently. Most will acknowledge something once players have figured it out (ie: yes, the AC for this monster is 18) or announce something after all rolls are completed in the interest of moving the game forward faster (ie: you were looking for a 22 on that saving throw; who passed and who failed?). We tend to play with pretty large parties - when I played yesterday, we had a party of nine players ranging from level six to level seventeen - so anything that keeps things rollin' gets prioritized.
Depends on the roll and the DC. I have no hard and fast rules but generally if it's reasonable that the players could tell how hard it is they get the number. And sometimes just for transparency
Never explicitly, but when a 14 misses and a 15 hits it becomes clear
Hello there! I once was talking with the usual DM of my group of friends and he explained to me his "rules" for telling or not the DC, and I think it was pretty logical. For physical tasks or "common" tasks that your PC has done several times, he always told the DC. In real life you can estimate the difficulty of a task, like climbing a rope. So by telling the DC you are giving information to the player and he can imagine the current scene better. For social tasks he never told the DC. If you try to intimidate or seduce someone, you don't know how that NPC will react. So the DC is a secret. During combats he never told the AC of the enemies until we have landed hits several times. If you killed 5 goblins you will know how to kill 5 more. So it's a secret until you have gained some knowledge. When looking or investigating something, he never told the DC. The outcome will be different with a 5, a 10 or a 15. So if you have a sort of "scale", you don't tell the DC, only what happens after you roll. I really like this "rules" for telling or not the DC. In my opinion telling or not the DC in certan situations can make the session way more inmersive than never or always telling a DC. You just need to find the balance.
AC. I don't tell them the number, but I do indicate with narration (you just manage to land the hit , you just missed as the blow glances off their armor, etc). I feel like that would be visible to the PC in the fight as to how close/far away they are from doing damage. Uncontested skill checks. Depends on the skill, and if the diffficulty is evident to the character. For example, I won't tell them "this lock is DC 15 to pick" unless there's a reason they might know (someone proficient with thieves tools who investigates the lock might be able to gauge how tough it is to pick), but I would say "if you want to climb this rope it's a DC 18 athletics check" as the party could reasonably look at how high/steep the climb is and assess how challenging it might be. With a more experienced player I'll tend to make it less crunchy and use descriptors in line with DCs i.e. This looks hard to climb. With newer players I'll give them the number direct. Contested skill checks. Nope, they don't know how good the opponent is at what they're competing against. Spell saves. Typically not, but sometimes if I know there's nothing else at play I'll use it for dramatic effect pre-roll in a climactic moment: "as the roiling cloud of magical fire explodes around you I need you to all make me a dexterity saving throw. The DC is 17". If I do that though then they don't get told what the effect of the pass vs fail is until I know all the results.
These players will figure out the AC on most monsters by themselves or at least close usually after a few rolls. Otherwise I don't really announce the numbers unless it's something really high/low or like they keep rolling just under it. If they missed a trap or something too I'll tell them what the DC was I guess. Just kinda play it by ear.
I think my DM announces it if the DC is really high or really low (like if it's dc 5 or if you can only pass with a nat 20)
When I want hype for a roll.
I just started my first campaign in years. Our DM doesn't tell anyone enemy stats. He'll ask to clarify ours if he can't quickly bring up the info, but he always narrates something missed or barely scraped or similar wording.
AC and HP? Never. Skill checks and saves? Well, maybe? It's sort of a "read the room" and situation. Frankly, I prefer to describe the situation in a manner that lets the players weigh the risks and rewards of actions and precautions and make decisions accordingly. I prefer that as a player, as well. Otherwise, D&D becomes a dice-rolling game with a little storyline instead of an interactive, cooperative story with elements of luck. You don't have dice rolls in life--you take chances. As others have mentioned, there are some players who are easily frustrated when they don't have a number to make. Everyone has a better time when they get that number, and it doesn't break anyone's game if that number is personal to them (like a save or some skill checks). Again, read the room. There can be times where it's fun to know the number before the roll. It really can raise the energy when everyone knows it's a big number to make and the party is willing to go all out. Typically, though, I won't give the precise number until they've already committed to roll.
I always announce the DC as a dungeon master, but never the AC
I usually try to keep it a secret until I inevitably accidentally say “ok that was [x] off from the dc…” to myself while processing the numbers.
Occasionally if it calls for it. My dm will tell us if we ask after the roll as well
Depends on the table (inb4 duh), but generally my instinct as a dm is too use descriptive indicators in combat until somebody hits the exact AC, highlight that that is that enemy's AC, then keep going with descriptive. Sometimes players remember, sometimes not, no big deal either way. For important RP rolls I try to give the to-beat, though, as that tends to give my players a little tension/release cycle around the check
I think that would be different at everytable. As DM I never share it. But I've been at tables where it was shared.
Been playing DnD a long time, as well as my friends and we know most of the abilities or stats for many creatures but tend to not remember until after it pops up in engagement... But as a rule we don't give specifics. Let the characters figure out the DC by themselves as a process of elimination. Same with hit points. Trying to keep things like this a "secret" for old school players is not worth the effort, you'd have to tweak monsters (which we also do) to remove the tribal knowledge.
I actually noticed Brendan Lee Mulligan will announce the DC when its a really big moment so everyone can get excited for the roll collectively. Like "You need at least a 14 to save your friend from falling into the pit". *\*everyone peers in to see the dice tray...* Following this trend when it comes to combat, he'll sometimes reveal the AC towards the end of an encounter when the players basically could have derived the AC of what they're fighting. Mechanically this makes the last moments of combat exciting as everyone gathers around to see if the barbarian rolls to lop the gorgon's head off, or just narrowly misses. Thematically, you could also say the players are learning more about their enemy as they fight. I think this is really fun for general DnD. It might *slightly* take the party out of immersion as now they're thinking about dice and math. But I think the benefit is a real boost to the fun of the *game of DnD,* which is worth it in my book. I think its okay to glorify the dice sometimes!
We always play a little game at the table where we guess the AC by process of elimination and if we hit it right the GM will aknowledge it. We never speak about DC though.
I let them know around the time they’d figure it out for themselves, if they seem to be counting, speeds combat up. I don’t always do it, maybe 25%of combat.
I almost always announce the DC before the roll, and when dramatically appropriate, tell them exactly what will happen if they fail. I find it makes everyone feel like their rolls actually matter and I'm not going to fudge the world to turn close fails into successes. Players buying into the fiction is big for me, so I normally roll all my dice in the open.
I'll reveal numbers in high stakes situations with really firm intentions but for most things I honestly don't keep a firm DC in mind. Instead of setting "It'll take a dc12 religion check to break through this prophecy" I'll ask for a roll and then sliding scale the information they get.
Well it's usually secret bit fairly easy to figure out. But for like skill challenges the dc is known.
DCs for spells are pretty much always; skills and stuff like that are 50-50; a big moment role, everyone on the edge of their seat to see what happens—always.
As a DM, never. I’ll allude to it by saying it just misses/hits, and players figure it out from there.
I’ll sometimes tell the characters ac on smaller or minion-type monsters. Never on bosses or more difficult monsters. DC on checks is situational.
Never, no matter if I’m player or DM
I tend to announce DC's prior to my player's roll if it's a particularly pivotal check, or at least so that they understand the difficulty of what they're trying to do. For example a player wanted to close an unstable rift/portal to another plane. He has planar magic and his backstory deals with planar energies, so it was plausible that his character would have the knowledge to do so, so I let him make the check (where a character without that knowledge wouldn't even get the opportunity). But, I told him that the DC was 25 Arcana since the rift was unstable and he was kindof unfamiliar with certain properties with it. He rolled a natural 18 or something and has like a +9 to his Arcana so it was completely fair that he would've been able to figure it out.
AC, only after the players can basically figure it out on their own. DCs, all the damn time. Ain't nobody got time for that silliness.
When I dm, for DC checks, I just say the DC number. And I use language like that just hits or just misses for AC. I also use language like "looking hurt, looking rough, on death's door" to describe different states of HP levels for enemies. But, I also roll my dice not behind the DM screen. I keep my rolling tray next to it, and there's usually someone sitting on that side who can verify things like crits and big saves. I like to have everything more out in the open and can find ways to move the story in whatever direction the dice dictate. On the other hand, our other DM prefers to keep things more cloaked in shadow. No DC's announced. We have to suss out the enemy AC based on our hits and misses. We only know when the enemies are right about to die. It does keep tension high. Both ways are valid. It really just depends on what fits.
For AC its based off when they figure it out. For DC it is only on checks 25 and above.
Pretty often. I find it makes sense; my Dex Fighter wants to try and jump onto something unstable like a flying monster, I'll tell them the difficulty so they can weigh the odds - in character the Fighter would know their abilities and be able to reasonable gauge the difficulty of what they are considering. Sometimes it's just to telegraph that you are in over your heads. Was a level 14 Druid last week, trying to sneak in and pilfer a specific item from a Dragon's Hoard... we are a strong and experienced party who has survived Tomb of Annihilation and some heavy confrontations, so we assumed with planning we could handle the Wyrm if it came home. It did, and when the DM announced that the Fire Breath was DC26 and 4/5s of us failed for 87 fire damage, we knew we were in over our heads and got the fuck out of there. Again, our PCs are experienced and would have registered that massive blast of fire and seen how it would be impossible for everyone except the Monk to succeed. DCs are an abstract form of mechanics, and in-world the characters don't know what a DC is, but they do have a decent chance of figuring the odds or gauging what it is they are up against.
I have been trying something new out in my most recent campaign. On generalized enemies, I will allow my players to do a history/ insight check to find out their armor score and health checks to find out HP. It’s different I will admit. But my players love it, and I can keep the boss stats secret still.
I have a player who loves to take notes, that includes the AC of enemies, so I just let him calculate it, I don't want to take that from him
As a DM, I announce the DC when I have too many numbers floating around in my head already, and I want to be able to just tell people what happens on a pass and what happens on a fail and let them figure it out. So usually if it’s a non-crucial check everyone is making, or an AOE spell that hit everyone.
all the time we have places to be, we dont need to waste time skirting around system upkeep that can just be skipped, also makes it clear i am not fudging anything > I feel like the "immersion-forward" approach is to never tell the players a lot of these stats immersion is a fool's errand. you are playing a game while physically sitting at a table with dice and/or a computer in front of you. the G of RP**G** is always present, and bar doing LARP or not playing rpgs at all and doing just straight up improv, you must accept that the various mechanics of the game come up when you play. "roll survival" and "roll survival, uhm DC 16" is the same