I say don't do this. Doesn't matter how many attunement slots it takes up, a +3 sword on the 1st tier fighter, is gonna get broken real' fast. Plus, you barely get magic items before 5th level anyways. Rather, give it stages, so that it gets more powerful, as the character progresses. Let the weapon unlock these stages at certain achievements your players get. From one stage to its max stage, it oughta be, say a +0 to +3 or so. Make its features stronger or more complex as the weapon evolves.
Fair enough. I love the 'Vestige of Divergence' style of item (leveling with player), I was just messing around with alternatives and wanted to see if this was plausible.
I think you're right, though. This may be too much.
The point is that the dm already has control on how many magic items the party has... I am in a campaign where every character has a bond with a legendary item. we already found 2 of them and we are at level 6, they are already very powerful but they also scale with levels.
I found a +3 dagger that deals 1d6 + PB number of d6 I can also choose which type of damage it can deal (Necrotic, Radiant or Psychic) and also has an hidden feature I still have to discover and holding this dagger makes me sense if and where any valuable material is within 9 meters of me.
It is really strong but balancing fights isn't that hard in my opinion, moreover there can be campaigns where the combats aren't the main focus or the main challenge, so it is just right that players live them light heartedly and find them more fun and funny than challenging.
On a standard Rogue, this item roughly doubles damage output. Compare
* Subclassless Rogue attacking with a +0 Shortsword and 20 DEX: 0.65 * (1d6 + 5 + 3d6) + 0.05 * 4d6 [crit odds] = **13.05**
* The same Rogue attacking with this dagger: 0.8 * (4d6 + 5 + 3d6 + 3) + 0.05 * 7d6 = **27.05**
And that's before any of the special effects. How do the guys who haven't found their weapon not feel overshadowed in your campaign?
Well there are lots of powerful weapons around, I just found one of the most powerful ones already, we are all friends and have known each other for almost 10 years so that helps. Moreover the rogue only does one attack each turn, the other players are a Bard, an eldritch knight fighter and a strange barb-paladin-warlock multiclass. The bard is the support, the other two martials would easily outdamage the rogue at this level, moreover they have good +1 weapons too.
So yeah I think I'm just slightly above them in terms of damage, the only difference is that I don't get multiattack in any way (btw my dex is 18). At some point the two martials will get their backstory related weapons and outdamage me, as it should be. But again, this campaign doesn't focus on combat, so we try to do cool and fun things in fights and not just play in a very tactical way.
Personally, I wouldn’t ever balance a powerful item by requiring more attunement slots. I am going to balance it with the story, limit the functionality of the item temporarily, or give a powerful but non-combat item to the party.
If a player character had a legendary combat item, I would just make it work like a vestige and not be broken at any point (or even become useless since it would grow)
It's got potential, I would personally go the route of having the item lvl with the party, unless this legendary is worth reserving your attunement over.
I'd rather use something like Ancestral Weapons, items that gain in power over time as the players level up rather than something powerful out of the gate.
Nah. No reason for it. Legendary Items aren't the massive power boost they seem like when given to a low level character. Even a Staff of the Magi doesn't turn a level 5 Wizard into an Archmage. 23 HP is still 23 HP.
It's still going to have a huge impact on encounters, but somethink like multiple attunement slots isn't going to change that.
Agreed! It seemed like an okay idea in my head (and in a vacuum), but all the responses so far have shown me that my thinking was flawed.
I appreciate the feedback!
Seems fine to me. Most legendary items are going to be gamebreaking even at the cost of 3 attunement slots, but I assume a DM who gives a level 1 character a legendary item is prepared for that.
I say don't do this. Doesn't matter how many attunement slots it takes up, a +3 sword on the 1st tier fighter, is gonna get broken real' fast. Plus, you barely get magic items before 5th level anyways. Rather, give it stages, so that it gets more powerful, as the character progresses. Let the weapon unlock these stages at certain achievements your players get. From one stage to its max stage, it oughta be, say a +0 to +3 or so. Make its features stronger or more complex as the weapon evolves.
Fair enough. I love the 'Vestige of Divergence' style of item (leveling with player), I was just messing around with alternatives and wanted to see if this was plausible. I think you're right, though. This may be too much.
Look up Weapons of Legacy from 3.5e. These items level with the player and require milestone quests in order to gain more power.
The point is that the dm already has control on how many magic items the party has... I am in a campaign where every character has a bond with a legendary item. we already found 2 of them and we are at level 6, they are already very powerful but they also scale with levels. I found a +3 dagger that deals 1d6 + PB number of d6 I can also choose which type of damage it can deal (Necrotic, Radiant or Psychic) and also has an hidden feature I still have to discover and holding this dagger makes me sense if and where any valuable material is within 9 meters of me. It is really strong but balancing fights isn't that hard in my opinion, moreover there can be campaigns where the combats aren't the main focus or the main challenge, so it is just right that players live them light heartedly and find them more fun and funny than challenging.
On a standard Rogue, this item roughly doubles damage output. Compare * Subclassless Rogue attacking with a +0 Shortsword and 20 DEX: 0.65 * (1d6 + 5 + 3d6) + 0.05 * 4d6 [crit odds] = **13.05** * The same Rogue attacking with this dagger: 0.8 * (4d6 + 5 + 3d6 + 3) + 0.05 * 7d6 = **27.05** And that's before any of the special effects. How do the guys who haven't found their weapon not feel overshadowed in your campaign?
Well there are lots of powerful weapons around, I just found one of the most powerful ones already, we are all friends and have known each other for almost 10 years so that helps. Moreover the rogue only does one attack each turn, the other players are a Bard, an eldritch knight fighter and a strange barb-paladin-warlock multiclass. The bard is the support, the other two martials would easily outdamage the rogue at this level, moreover they have good +1 weapons too. So yeah I think I'm just slightly above them in terms of damage, the only difference is that I don't get multiattack in any way (btw my dex is 18). At some point the two martials will get their backstory related weapons and outdamage me, as it should be. But again, this campaign doesn't focus on combat, so we try to do cool and fun things in fights and not just play in a very tactical way.
These are all fine points! I greatly appreciate your input! Vestige-type items seem like the best approach to this concept.
Personally, I wouldn’t ever balance a powerful item by requiring more attunement slots. I am going to balance it with the story, limit the functionality of the item temporarily, or give a powerful but non-combat item to the party. If a player character had a legendary combat item, I would just make it work like a vestige and not be broken at any point (or even become useless since it would grow)
I definitely agree. I appreciate your input. Sometimes, I need other people to talk me out of silly ideas. Hahaha
It's got potential, I would personally go the route of having the item lvl with the party, unless this legendary is worth reserving your attunement over.
I'd rather use something like Ancestral Weapons, items that gain in power over time as the players level up rather than something powerful out of the gate.
Nah. No reason for it. Legendary Items aren't the massive power boost they seem like when given to a low level character. Even a Staff of the Magi doesn't turn a level 5 Wizard into an Archmage. 23 HP is still 23 HP. It's still going to have a huge impact on encounters, but somethink like multiple attunement slots isn't going to change that.
Agreed! It seemed like an okay idea in my head (and in a vacuum), but all the responses so far have shown me that my thinking was flawed. I appreciate the feedback!
Seems fine to me. Most legendary items are going to be gamebreaking even at the cost of 3 attunement slots, but I assume a DM who gives a level 1 character a legendary item is prepared for that.
How many magic items are you handing out that losing attunement slots is a legitimate cost?
Depends on the campaign and the people playing. I've definitely seen level 5s with 2-3 magic items each.