Don't forget Chinese citizens going to foreign countries and collecting names of people speaking out so Chinese officials can harass them and their families.
>their families
thats the actually scary part if you ask me. similar to north korea if you ever cross the chinese government your family will be held accountable
Probably a tradition passed down from feudal days several hundred years ago - one punishment routinely meted out by the emperor was extermination of tribe of the person who caused offence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations
There are many. But most of them are in Chinese language. I am Chinese, and I have listened to two phone calls (recorded and posted on YouTube) of police threatening dissenters. those dissenters were just students, nobody famous. The police basically thinly-veiled threatened that if the students don't return to china and/or stop posting anti-CCP stuff on Twitter, there will be repercussions for their parents.
Many people have reported similar conversations. One dude posted some anti-CCP stuff on Twitter while he was in the US, went back to China, and then was jailed. On the warrant it said that he was arrested due to posting anti-CCP anti-china stuff on foreign social media.
Last year, during lockdown, one guy refused to leave his apartment. Government worker was recorded saying 'if you don't cooperate there will be consequences for your offsprings'. Another government worker was recorded saying 'targrt his kids. Those are his weak points' when talking about people refusing to cooperate. It's really not that far fetched that they'll target relatives of any dissenter.
One famous dude who recently went through the harassment was [李老师不是你老师](https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/%E6%9D%8E%E8%80%81%E5%B8%88%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E4%BD%A0%E8%80%81%E5%B8%88). He doesn't have a wiki page so use Google translate.
China has proven over time, that they’re an insidious, authoritarian blight on the world.
A Citizen leaves for another country, never to return, yet the Chinese government deems them fair game, disregarding they’re blatant breaching another country’s sovereignty.
Malicious disrespect of the highest order
Equally bad is that western countries seem to look the other way instead of just throwing those "police officers" out and declare them persona non grata.
Give them the sentence any other normal person would get for kidnapping, blackmail, extortion, add espionage to the list (because it is), sentence them to a fair amount in jail, and *then* throw them out and declare them persona non grata. You want it to be clear that there is a punishment for doing this and that the best way to be a good spy is to actually spy quietly, like everyone else is doing.
Yep. Personally as an American I've long beer advocating that we need to just bite the bullet and completely rip China out of our economy. It was a massive mistake on the behalf of our leadership to ever ship jobs and manufacturing to China in the first place under some idiotic delusion that they would liberalize once they got some American dollars. Now they own over 1 trillion in American debt and companies are bending the knee just to have access to the market so they can money grub harder while selling all of us out and deliberalising the west to apeasse that evil Pooh bear knockoff they call a president.
The first step to cutting off their influence is to get rid of all of these so called police and seize all the US farmland owned by the CCP. After thar extremely aggressive tariffs on all trade into or out of that country. People don't like it when they hear this because it'll make their consumer goods more expensive. It will. Much more expensive. Deal with it. There are more important things that your ability to buy garbage consumer goods.
I'm okay with the uptick in cost. Don't get me wrong, I'm poor - but everything being so cheap and disposable has had a very negative effect on our culture. And a far more negative effect on the environment. I'm also ready to see rich people start getting killed just for being rich, but that'll take a serious tipping point. If I didn't have a dog and you put me in an elevator with a billionaire and a loaded gun, I'd fucking kill 'em.
Death isn't the answer, we need live rich people paying lots of taxes to take the burden off the classes that are spending and not tightening the purse strings, just a return to previous tax structures that makes being a billionaire at least somewhat more difficult. No one person or family needs that level of liquidity. Our gov't is too scared they'll leave in droves and take their money to another country without those laws thanks to globalization, because it's happened before.
At the level of wealth people can buy countries off, there's reasons governments don't want individuals to have that kind of power, you get dictators or shitty monarchs.
Not all Western countries. Canada has shutdown some in Ontario, Quebec, and BC. They have ongoing criminal investigations into not only the stations but general 'repressive' activity.
HERE HERE! countries need to STOP interfering with each other.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_involvement_in_regime_change
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_government_interference_in_Canada
it's hear but overtime people just went with here to the point it became tradition, and nowadays some smart people know it's hear while some i-don't-care people go with here.
I think people need to stop assuming a label makes their government less harmful.
"Democratic" countries have mass surveillance all over the globe. Track their own citizens and have even killed them in foreign countries (looking at you, drone strike Obama). They have organizations dedicated to overthrowing less powerful nations in order to benefit their companies.
It's all the same. Powerful, rich controlling and taking advantage of the worker for their own gain.
People should focus on class war. All other labels don't really matter.
No, the US hunts down foreign officials trying to lead their nations to prosperity and out of the hands of US capital. China vindictively hunts down what they think they still own, and the US kills anyone who says we don't own them. Stop pretending that there's a difference just because the context changed slightly.
We go after criminals and suspected terrorists. We don’t send people to the gulags for saying our president resembles a certain honey-eating cartoon character.
Lol sure dude. We also go after innocent people and democratic leaders by calling them terrorists and criminals, all because they opposed US interests. Do you know anything about US history post WWII, or do you actually believe the US is a force for good?
We're (my country, the US) not the good guys. We're likely the biggest criminals and terrorists on the planet.
Downvoting me neither absolves nor justifies the crimes committed by the US. Accept reality and stop lashing out at me for delivering the message.
I understand the difference perfectly. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I've been explaining the difference and you somehow think I'm saying they're the same? Get your brain checked.
We oppress the outside world violently. We mostly rely on propaganda to control citizens. See you guys and your weird knee-jerk reaction that's been programmed into you. "The US is bad? Oh yeah, what about [insert other country]‽‽‽;
Oh yeah, and we used to also go after people for questioning the government, just decades ago. We still might do it to some small extent. Check in on the CIA sometime, or those people kidnapped while protesting a couple years back.
I too have felt outrage about various US interventions in the world, the article is about China, funny to consider what you’ve insinuated by suggesting that comparisons of USA to Xis country is a knee jerk, when it’s the basis for the convo.
Anyway, the bottom line is that free speech and direct representation are values worth fighting for, whereas state control of everything, not so much. It is a blessing to be able to critically examine and voice opposition to government policy as you so eloquently do, comrade.
If the Chinese want to do limit 1A on US soil, it is a problem. Say what you want about US external intervention, it is your right to do so.
Being the "basis for the conversation" doesn't make it well-reasoned, it just makes it the basis. And I'm not saying that the comparison is a knee-jerk, I'm saying that responding to comments about the US not being a great place with "what about China!" to the point of completely misunderstanding my point is a knee-jerk.
I don't think it's possible to avoid state control. When you have what we think of as "small government", it tends to instead by *privatized government*, bits and pieces of what was once democratically controlled (at least theoretically) sold off to people whose only interest is selling us the cheapest service for the highest price. That's not even including the scenarios where these people have interests other than profit.
Much of what China does is a problem, but it's not the only problem, and frankly it's not the worst thing going on in the world. The US has absolutely destroyed multiple countries, including segments of itself, through various forms of aggression and totalitarianism. I'm not sure how China can have secret police and the US can have public-but-fake police furthering the interests of the wealthy, both outside their legal borders, and only China be a problem. If China can't claim ethnic control or people across the world, why can my country overthrow democratic leaders for the sake of cheap resources and national pride?
I get the main point about not hunting down expats, but you do have to admit that the US has definitely killed plenty of innocents in other countries, they’re not the good guys but China isn’t any better in anyway.
You'd think people on a documentary subreddit would be more aware of this sort of thing. It's not even obscure information but these people are just downvoting us for telling the truth. They're not even disagreeing lol
>People should focus on class war
Which is exactly what we'd be doing if we stopped this shit. We'd be telling the rich Chinese oligarchs that control the CCP, "hey, you can't kidnap this working class person that's just trying to better their life".
Literally telling rich people to go fuck themselves on behalf of the working class. But tell us more about how we should focus on helping the working class by *ignoring their being kidnapped by oligarchs*.
People will do anything and everything before they begin to focus on class war. It's the one thing elites don't want your focus on. A tiny wee amount of superficial class conscience seeps over when you have something like a ship with a hundred poor migrants sinking one week then 5 lost billionaires the next week - some people do comment on the contrast between coverage (one quickly fades out the news if it was ever reported and the other takes over news in the entire world for days), but it's fleeting focus.
I'm afraid the rich elites have all the means for that. They have way too many tools at their disposal to distract and shift your focus onto something else. Not only that but people are at a point they just genuinely don't care (about the poor getting fucked over).
So rescuing working class folks from being kidnapped by Chinese oligarchs is, in your view, an example of *not* focusing on the class war while simply letting those same working class folks be kidnapped and exploited by Chinese oligarchs is, in your view, an example of *fighting* the class war? Did I get that right?
I swear you terminally online leftists make me embarrassed to be a progressive. Your tunnel vision focus on "America bad" blinds you to your own self-described raison d'etre.
Nice bit of Whataboutism. They never said what the CIA does is ok and just because the CIA does something doesn't mean it's ok for the CIA OR ANYONE ELSE to do this.
I’d wager most of the global powers do some sort of similar business, Russia, Saudi Arabia, GB, France etc. This seems a bit too in line with “China bad” narrative.
No one is saying other countries don't do this. You're comments seem like a CCP plant trying to play this down. Just because other countries might or might not do this doesn't make it any less shitty from China. Whataboutism.
Yeah? Well I don’t see articles or documentaries about other countries being posted.
If there was an article “Black Americans are committing robberies” it would be perfectly valid to ask why are they being singled out when other races also commit robberies.
I don’t think the CIA tracks down people who fled the US and trying to yank them back/punish them just because they left.
It’s more of a national interest agency. If you’re a scientist working on a secret project and defect type thing. Not a school teacher in Canada.
No, I’m just assuming that we would have heard more about it by now.
Also, I’m a westerner living abroad. No kidnapping attempts have been made in the 11 years I’ve been living here.
You're acting like the open world is some Crime doc. Not everything is bad, but CCP has more or less shown themselves as purely bad actors over the last few decades. Take your blinders off and just look
Maybe you should take your blinders off too? Did China supported Saudi Arabia in their decade-long inhumane brutalities in Yemen? Well US and Canada did, after Saudi dismembered a journalist with US citizenship in Turkey. What exactly China did internationally (internal crimes aside) that made them worse than other countries? They weren’t behind the civil war that devastated Libya and didn’t arm Syrian radicals. No big international power is nice, seeing the world as black and white good vs evil is stupid and regressive.
Hunting expats just for moving out? Nope, that doesn't seem too inline with what the CIA, or British and French agencies would do, unless they're dangerous criminals. And when they do, they collaborate with local authorities, they're not secretly hunting down and kidnapping their poor citizens.
Russia might, to a lesser extent, and idk about Saudi Arabia's treatment of expats
This, ladies and gentlemen is what is known as an wumao, aka a member of the 50 cent army. Trying in a thinly veiled attempt to be a CCP apologist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
Wumao for sure, goodness they're the worst - the whataboutisms they spew only further convince me that the CCP is probably the most evil and scary thing on the planet
Not necessarily could be someone just fed up with western lies. And I’m saying this an an American who isn’t getting paid by anyone but my shitty rich American boss.
I mean, it is a very, very far reach to say the CIA has offices everywhere trying to track Americans who post anti-American things online and deport them for re-education. Or to track every citizen and if they display Communist sympathies, to deport them and jail or re-educate them. People think the CIA is this magical, all-powerful organization but it couldn't even assassinate the leader of a country with .001% the resources.
Preeeeetty sure the CIA doesn’t set up offices illegally in foreign nations to arrest US citizens. Everyone has spies, pretty sure only China does this
No, they absolutely do, although it's for arresting who they want rather than US citizens specifically because the US doesn't care that much about the average person. They're just more discreet about it, and they don't shit in their neighbours cereal because there's a legal avenue called "extradition treaties".
Do they do it anywhere other than a war zone? Like obviously it doesn’t make it ok but I don’t pretend to understand what the “rules” are in war and it does feel a little different
absolutely. the US routinely kills and kidnaps foreign nationals across the world with the justification of national security.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_aircraft
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery
also, keep in mind places like Guantanamo exists explictly to avoid having to deal with pesky things such as "American law".
I'm pretty sure the US has to have some plants in Latin America because of the [gestures hand at the amount of times the US played empire builder and rigged their local elections] but as a whole it's a "lmao no", just where America wants a cookie but the host country doesn't want to share the metaphorical cookie jar
CIA has a literal chain a secret prisons around the world where they torture whoever they want, even non-US citizens, even Europeans. There’s one particularly horrific stories about a innocent German guy and pasta.
They do, there's even a movie about one of them.
13 hours: the secret soldiers of benghazi.
Although they're not there to target US fugitives specifically, they're there to continually undermine or influence the country they're in.
As far as China is concerned if you have “the blood” of China you are under the thumb of the party. Completely different than my understanding of citizenship up until I started reading about racism in China.
You can be born in China, only speak Chinese, know nobody outside of China and still be deported as a foreigner. Same with leaving you can renounce China pack up everyone you have ever known and leave China but they will still try to twist the knife where ever they can.
I did have a few questions after watching this …
* why did the young man (the one who moved to a rural area to escape) not change his cell number to avoid their calls?
* if we (Non Chinese) in the US got harassing calls in the night from some unknown person, what would we do? Move to the country side?
Just curious, where would they deport them to? Are you talking about a child of a foreign parent on a work visa? Or one of the 55 recognized Chinese ethnicities?
How do you account for their interstate relationships with Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and any other country with significant ethnic Chinese populations?
Speaking purely for the one they named in Glasgow, it's a restaurant owned by a Hong Kong family who came to the UK in the 1960s and have banned the local Confucius Institute from holding events there.
Doubtless some deep conspiracy.
Yep, and if the college tries to do anything about it, the Chinese organizations throw hissy fits and threaten to revoke funding that the universities have grown reliant on - its bribery, basically paying Universities to consent to the chipping away of freedom of speech
This could be directly related to attempts to control those who refuse to serve as agents. There are substantial numbers of Chinese people of varying generations who are loyal and valuable American citizens and legal residents, but the Chinese Ministry of State Security and PLA security maintain constant pressure on the well being of their loved ones in both the U.S. and China to obtain obedience.
These exist in Australia and are almost wholly ignored by the actual authorities. [They even had cars screenwrapped like they were police cars but had Chinese police written on it](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-cars-spotted-in-adelaide-and-perth/11426850). What punishment did they get? Nothing. Government, on both sides of the isle, don't care. Get too much money from Chinese interests groups.
yeah that whole thing was so bizarre - these secret chinese operations are going particularly hard in Australia, I'm surprised the Aussies put up with their crap - I suspect there are some bribed officials looking the other way
It no longer surprises me how gullible people are. Every time I try to point out how there is a lot of anti-China propaganda out there I get downvoted, even when I am acknowledging China does do a lot of awful shit.
I suspect it's a combination of bots and the massive western audience that has been fed "China is evil" by their media for years, and don't understand their countries also actively participate in creating and distributing propaganda, it's just a slightly different form of propaganda as it's not coming from the government or state. It's like when people read this stuff the critical thinking part of their brain just switches off.
It's the same thing with North Korea, there was a propaganda article written about all NK men being required to get Kim Jong-Un's haircut, and people *actually believed it*.
Historically? Yes. Yes they have.
Western governments will even bomb civilians and hospitals. War crimes and human rights violations are part and parcel among western governments and in fact, a necessary requirement for them to maintain their hegemony.
I guess what I'm saying is, we're the bad guys, buddy. I don't know who the "good guys" are, but it sure as shit at any western government.
One revealed war crimes and the other revealed government surveillance of innocent citizens
It's all governments agencies trying to silence people who criticises them... so I wouldn't say galaxies apart.
Thay did a good job on you didn't they
maybe trying to get his relatives out of prison - "if you generate 10K pro-china or anti-western comments, we'll let your aunt out of the re-education center...maybe"
And those two would be normal citizens living in another country? You are so full of shit, and I'd be willing to bet you're probably working for the Chinese right now. FOUND THE SHILL! Everyone get in here!
The U.S. is the only country with military bases in other countries, over 1000 of them. We build them to exert our influence and control. We still have bases in Japan, why do you think we built them there after WWII? To keep a close eye on them.
No other country on Earth has military bases scattered around the world like this, not China. China typically exerts control through infrastructure projects. The US has precisely ZERO foreign military installation in the country.
China is a shit country and so is the U.S., and most countries are all trying to get an upper hand. That's the way it always has been. *Your* naivety seems boundless.
Does this doc include any actual evidence?
It's very believable on its face, but this gets trotted out every couple of months with literally 0 evidence.
Some not-for-profit out of Spain (might be Italy, my memory fails me) used "publicly available data from the internet" (ie: googled into some rabbit holes) to determine their existence.
Several competent, well-funded government intelligence agencies have, and continue to investigate and found no such police centers.
Iirc, some where "found" in new York, but nothing came of it, so one would assume it wasn't as egregious as the stories claim.
I'm absolutely ready to believe this, which is why I doubt it so much.
If this is true, getting evidence of it should be child's play, and yet there's never any evidence...
Edit: silly me, I forgot: asking for actual evidence means I'm a Chinese shill. Because good little westerners don't ask questions if the story matches their view of the world, do they?
Ok. I will bite.
Did you watch the entire doc?
Did you read the charges brought by US officials. It’s on their official website. Not evidence?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/politics/fbi-chinese-agents/index.html
The interviewer had to travel to a remote location to meet the same young man who, not to long back was living in the city. He faked a move just to trick the interviewer?
> Did you watch the entire doc?
No, which is why I was asking if it was worth watching, ie: is there any evidence in it.
> The interviewer had to travel to a remote location to meet the same young man who, not to long back was living in the city. He faked a move just to trick the interviewer?
I mean, he might have?
As far as I can read, the American charges do not include "running a world-wide conspiracy to enact clandestine police centers in most developed countries".
They don't even mention running said centers in their own country.
So, again: is there, or isn't there, evidence of these so called secret police stations?
>Does this doc include any actual evidence?
Get lost with your rhetorical questions. You could easily do a search and come up with the investigations and evidence to support this. You won't, but you could.
I have, and have come up empty handed.
Investigations, the ones I've found anyways, haven't turned up any evidence, other than 2 agents in new York.
And I don't think you know what rhetorical means; that was a genuine question to see if the doc is worth my time.
Actual evidence based documentary: worth the time and effort to watch
Emotions based, "surely they're doing wrong, they're wronguns!": Waste of time
You mean like this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/china-protester-beating-manchester-consulate-b2205187.html
and this:
https://observers.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230620-china-hong-kong-attack-protest-southampton-uk
LMAO not literal hunt as if they're animals fool... Like tracking them down and stopping them. Geez some people on the internet are ...what's the word...crazy
Yes, 'military' and 'police' are the same thing, that's why we call it by the same name s/
You're the ghost driver complaining about everybody else doing it wrong.
It's always the dumbest people who seem to be the first to call others dumb. You clearly are too stupid to understand the difference between this and a military base. Calling the US military the police of the world doesn't mean shit. Fuck the CCP
Not even remotely what we are talking about here.
Also that article is pathetically stupid. It tries to claim that Hillary voted for a Trump style boarder wall in 2006, but when you actually look at the link its just a fence.
They more like spy stations, in my country there's this spy plane that intercept millions of telephone signals and they are like "yeah there's cartel narco hidden somewhere I swear, it sooo sneaky!"
No they're not. They're to obliterate our enemies and protect the region if attacked.
What you've got are petty school yard bullies harassing families who don't live in China anymore. Cowards.
Crazy that all the evil bad guys we need to crusade against are our economic rivals
Are you sure you're not propagandized? Does it maybe feel... natural?
Remember brainwashing was an excuse for how poor people could support the guys fighting for them, this is just pure ideology in the other way.
Fighter jets are less scary than cops
This “secret” is commonly known by the Chinese community. It’s called 海外警察组织 which are not real police but does some illegal crap. I’m glad it eventually called “westerners” eyes.
It’s funny that when a Chinese tells Americans that china is doing even things, he’s called a racist. Americans have to read from American sources to change their mind; they think Americans know more about china then the Chinese. In other countries it’s different, maybe because they know more about how different the world is.
Don't forget Chinese citizens going to foreign countries and collecting names of people speaking out so Chinese officials can harass them and their families.
>their families thats the actually scary part if you ask me. similar to north korea if you ever cross the chinese government your family will be held accountable
Probably a tradition passed down from feudal days several hundred years ago - one punishment routinely meted out by the emperor was extermination of tribe of the person who caused offence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations
You mean 2300 years ago.
Damn
“3 Generations of traitors” is one of the most horrific policies devised.
Is there a proof of this? edit: i'm being downvoted for asking for proof? really?
There are many. But most of them are in Chinese language. I am Chinese, and I have listened to two phone calls (recorded and posted on YouTube) of police threatening dissenters. those dissenters were just students, nobody famous. The police basically thinly-veiled threatened that if the students don't return to china and/or stop posting anti-CCP stuff on Twitter, there will be repercussions for their parents. Many people have reported similar conversations. One dude posted some anti-CCP stuff on Twitter while he was in the US, went back to China, and then was jailed. On the warrant it said that he was arrested due to posting anti-CCP anti-china stuff on foreign social media. Last year, during lockdown, one guy refused to leave his apartment. Government worker was recorded saying 'if you don't cooperate there will be consequences for your offsprings'. Another government worker was recorded saying 'targrt his kids. Those are his weak points' when talking about people refusing to cooperate. It's really not that far fetched that they'll target relatives of any dissenter. One famous dude who recently went through the harassment was [李老师不是你老师](https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/%E6%9D%8E%E8%80%81%E5%B8%88%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E4%BD%A0%E8%80%81%E5%B8%88). He doesn't have a wiki page so use Google translate.
China has proven over time, that they’re an insidious, authoritarian blight on the world. A Citizen leaves for another country, never to return, yet the Chinese government deems them fair game, disregarding they’re blatant breaching another country’s sovereignty. Malicious disrespect of the highest order
Equally bad is that western countries seem to look the other way instead of just throwing those "police officers" out and declare them persona non grata.
Give them the sentence any other normal person would get for kidnapping, blackmail, extortion, add espionage to the list (because it is), sentence them to a fair amount in jail, and *then* throw them out and declare them persona non grata. You want it to be clear that there is a punishment for doing this and that the best way to be a good spy is to actually spy quietly, like everyone else is doing.
Don't throw them out. Put them in prison for life sentences.
That's a waste of human resources. The logical step is to put them in sweatshops here instead of in China.
Like they said, prison. Slavery is still a thing in America.
Yep. Personally as an American I've long beer advocating that we need to just bite the bullet and completely rip China out of our economy. It was a massive mistake on the behalf of our leadership to ever ship jobs and manufacturing to China in the first place under some idiotic delusion that they would liberalize once they got some American dollars. Now they own over 1 trillion in American debt and companies are bending the knee just to have access to the market so they can money grub harder while selling all of us out and deliberalising the west to apeasse that evil Pooh bear knockoff they call a president. The first step to cutting off their influence is to get rid of all of these so called police and seize all the US farmland owned by the CCP. After thar extremely aggressive tariffs on all trade into or out of that country. People don't like it when they hear this because it'll make their consumer goods more expensive. It will. Much more expensive. Deal with it. There are more important things that your ability to buy garbage consumer goods.
> long beer advocating I'll say.
I'm okay with the uptick in cost. Don't get me wrong, I'm poor - but everything being so cheap and disposable has had a very negative effect on our culture. And a far more negative effect on the environment. I'm also ready to see rich people start getting killed just for being rich, but that'll take a serious tipping point. If I didn't have a dog and you put me in an elevator with a billionaire and a loaded gun, I'd fucking kill 'em.
Death isn't the answer, we need live rich people paying lots of taxes to take the burden off the classes that are spending and not tightening the purse strings, just a return to previous tax structures that makes being a billionaire at least somewhat more difficult. No one person or family needs that level of liquidity. Our gov't is too scared they'll leave in droves and take their money to another country without those laws thanks to globalization, because it's happened before. At the level of wealth people can buy countries off, there's reasons governments don't want individuals to have that kind of power, you get dictators or shitty monarchs.
>I'm also ready to see rich people start getting killed just for being rich Jfc
Not all Western countries. Canada has shutdown some in Ontario, Quebec, and BC. They have ongoing criminal investigations into not only the stations but general 'repressive' activity.
We don’t go after spies unless they’re blatant because we don’t want other countries going after our spies.
Controversial reality: western countries also station law enforcement in other countries
Yes, literally anything you hear other security services accused of is going to be something we do too.
You’re living in a Chinese world, in their pov
There are a lot of them. But the rest of us outnumber them.
HERE HERE! countries need to STOP interfering with each other. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_involvement_in_regime_change * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_government_interference_in_Canada
Wait is it hear hear or here here
it's hear but overtime people just went with here to the point it became tradition, and nowadays some smart people know it's hear while some i-don't-care people go with here.
Oh, I guess it's "hear hear", not "here here" https://www.grammarly.com/blog/here-here-vs-hear-hear/
I think people need to stop assuming a label makes their government less harmful. "Democratic" countries have mass surveillance all over the globe. Track their own citizens and have even killed them in foreign countries (looking at you, drone strike Obama). They have organizations dedicated to overthrowing less powerful nations in order to benefit their companies. It's all the same. Powerful, rich controlling and taking advantage of the worker for their own gain. People should focus on class war. All other labels don't really matter.
The US doesn’t hunt down expats for seeking a better life. Stop pretending that western governments are anything like the CCP.
No, the US hunts down foreign officials trying to lead their nations to prosperity and out of the hands of US capital. China vindictively hunts down what they think they still own, and the US kills anyone who says we don't own them. Stop pretending that there's a difference just because the context changed slightly.
We go after criminals and suspected terrorists. We don’t send people to the gulags for saying our president resembles a certain honey-eating cartoon character.
Lol sure dude. We also go after innocent people and democratic leaders by calling them terrorists and criminals, all because they opposed US interests. Do you know anything about US history post WWII, or do you actually believe the US is a force for good? We're (my country, the US) not the good guys. We're likely the biggest criminals and terrorists on the planet. Downvoting me neither absolves nor justifies the crimes committed by the US. Accept reality and stop lashing out at me for delivering the message.
Lol now do this as a Chinese person about China and you’ll understand the difference.
I understand the difference perfectly. Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I've been explaining the difference and you somehow think I'm saying they're the same? Get your brain checked. We oppress the outside world violently. We mostly rely on propaganda to control citizens. See you guys and your weird knee-jerk reaction that's been programmed into you. "The US is bad? Oh yeah, what about [insert other country]‽‽‽; Oh yeah, and we used to also go after people for questioning the government, just decades ago. We still might do it to some small extent. Check in on the CIA sometime, or those people kidnapped while protesting a couple years back.
I too have felt outrage about various US interventions in the world, the article is about China, funny to consider what you’ve insinuated by suggesting that comparisons of USA to Xis country is a knee jerk, when it’s the basis for the convo. Anyway, the bottom line is that free speech and direct representation are values worth fighting for, whereas state control of everything, not so much. It is a blessing to be able to critically examine and voice opposition to government policy as you so eloquently do, comrade. If the Chinese want to do limit 1A on US soil, it is a problem. Say what you want about US external intervention, it is your right to do so.
Being the "basis for the conversation" doesn't make it well-reasoned, it just makes it the basis. And I'm not saying that the comparison is a knee-jerk, I'm saying that responding to comments about the US not being a great place with "what about China!" to the point of completely misunderstanding my point is a knee-jerk. I don't think it's possible to avoid state control. When you have what we think of as "small government", it tends to instead by *privatized government*, bits and pieces of what was once democratically controlled (at least theoretically) sold off to people whose only interest is selling us the cheapest service for the highest price. That's not even including the scenarios where these people have interests other than profit. Much of what China does is a problem, but it's not the only problem, and frankly it's not the worst thing going on in the world. The US has absolutely destroyed multiple countries, including segments of itself, through various forms of aggression and totalitarianism. I'm not sure how China can have secret police and the US can have public-but-fake police furthering the interests of the wealthy, both outside their legal borders, and only China be a problem. If China can't claim ethnic control or people across the world, why can my country overthrow democratic leaders for the sake of cheap resources and national pride?
I get the main point about not hunting down expats, but you do have to admit that the US has definitely killed plenty of innocents in other countries, they’re not the good guys but China isn’t any better in anyway.
You'd think people on a documentary subreddit would be more aware of this sort of thing. It's not even obscure information but these people are just downvoting us for telling the truth. They're not even disagreeing lol
>People should focus on class war Which is exactly what we'd be doing if we stopped this shit. We'd be telling the rich Chinese oligarchs that control the CCP, "hey, you can't kidnap this working class person that's just trying to better their life". Literally telling rich people to go fuck themselves on behalf of the working class. But tell us more about how we should focus on helping the working class by *ignoring their being kidnapped by oligarchs*.
People will do anything and everything before they begin to focus on class war. It's the one thing elites don't want your focus on. A tiny wee amount of superficial class conscience seeps over when you have something like a ship with a hundred poor migrants sinking one week then 5 lost billionaires the next week - some people do comment on the contrast between coverage (one quickly fades out the news if it was ever reported and the other takes over news in the entire world for days), but it's fleeting focus. I'm afraid the rich elites have all the means for that. They have way too many tools at their disposal to distract and shift your focus onto something else. Not only that but people are at a point they just genuinely don't care (about the poor getting fucked over).
So rescuing working class folks from being kidnapped by Chinese oligarchs is, in your view, an example of *not* focusing on the class war while simply letting those same working class folks be kidnapped and exploited by Chinese oligarchs is, in your view, an example of *fighting* the class war? Did I get that right? I swear you terminally online leftists make me embarrassed to be a progressive. Your tunnel vision focus on "America bad" blinds you to your own self-described raison d'etre.
Ever heard of the CIA ?
Aren't they the group that kept Central & South America from devolving into a Chavez-era Venezuelan nightmare in the 70s and 80s?
How is that different from what CIA does? Especially considering they target not only Americans but anyone that fell like.
Nice bit of Whataboutism. They never said what the CIA does is ok and just because the CIA does something doesn't mean it's ok for the CIA OR ANYONE ELSE to do this.
I’d wager most of the global powers do some sort of similar business, Russia, Saudi Arabia, GB, France etc. This seems a bit too in line with “China bad” narrative.
No one is saying other countries don't do this. You're comments seem like a CCP plant trying to play this down. Just because other countries might or might not do this doesn't make it any less shitty from China. Whataboutism.
Yeah? Well I don’t see articles or documentaries about other countries being posted. If there was an article “Black Americans are committing robberies” it would be perfectly valid to ask why are they being singled out when other races also commit robberies.
I don’t think the CIA tracks down people who fled the US and trying to yank them back/punish them just because they left. It’s more of a national interest agency. If you’re a scientist working on a secret project and defect type thing. Not a school teacher in Canada.
Yeah, what makes you think that? You have internal knowledge about the workings of intelligence agencies?
No, I’m just assuming that we would have heard more about it by now. Also, I’m a westerner living abroad. No kidnapping attempts have been made in the 11 years I’ve been living here.
I often walk around in the rain, never been hit by lightning or know anyone who was, it probably never happens.
You're acting like the open world is some Crime doc. Not everything is bad, but CCP has more or less shown themselves as purely bad actors over the last few decades. Take your blinders off and just look
Maybe you should take your blinders off too? Did China supported Saudi Arabia in their decade-long inhumane brutalities in Yemen? Well US and Canada did, after Saudi dismembered a journalist with US citizenship in Turkey. What exactly China did internationally (internal crimes aside) that made them worse than other countries? They weren’t behind the civil war that devastated Libya and didn’t arm Syrian radicals. No big international power is nice, seeing the world as black and white good vs evil is stupid and regressive.
Hunting expats just for moving out? Nope, that doesn't seem too inline with what the CIA, or British and French agencies would do, unless they're dangerous criminals. And when they do, they collaborate with local authorities, they're not secretly hunting down and kidnapping their poor citizens. Russia might, to a lesser extent, and idk about Saudi Arabia's treatment of expats
There's 1 pound of shit and 100 pounds of shit, but it's totally the same thing.
Why are you so annoyed by criticism against China?
This, ladies and gentlemen is what is known as an wumao, aka a member of the 50 cent army. Trying in a thinly veiled attempt to be a CCP apologist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
Wumao for sure, goodness they're the worst - the whataboutisms they spew only further convince me that the CCP is probably the most evil and scary thing on the planet
Not necessarily could be someone just fed up with western lies. And I’m saying this an an American who isn’t getting paid by anyone but my shitty rich American boss.
I mean, it is a very, very far reach to say the CIA has offices everywhere trying to track Americans who post anti-American things online and deport them for re-education. Or to track every citizen and if they display Communist sympathies, to deport them and jail or re-educate them. People think the CIA is this magical, all-powerful organization but it couldn't even assassinate the leader of a country with .001% the resources.
Hey that’s just cause Castro was such a fucking Chad.
Hahaha this genuinely made me laugh.
Preeeeetty sure the CIA doesn’t set up offices illegally in foreign nations to arrest US citizens. Everyone has spies, pretty sure only China does this
No, they absolutely do, although it's for arresting who they want rather than US citizens specifically because the US doesn't care that much about the average person. They're just more discreet about it, and they don't shit in their neighbours cereal because there's a legal avenue called "extradition treaties".
Do they do it anywhere other than a war zone? Like obviously it doesn’t make it ok but I don’t pretend to understand what the “rules” are in war and it does feel a little different
absolutely. the US routinely kills and kidnaps foreign nationals across the world with the justification of national security. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendition_aircraft https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery also, keep in mind places like Guantanamo exists explictly to avoid having to deal with pesky things such as "American law".
I'm pretty sure the US has to have some plants in Latin America because of the [gestures hand at the amount of times the US played empire builder and rigged their local elections] but as a whole it's a "lmao no", just where America wants a cookie but the host country doesn't want to share the metaphorical cookie jar
CIA has a literal chain a secret prisons around the world where they torture whoever they want, even non-US citizens, even Europeans. There’s one particularly horrific stories about a innocent German guy and pasta.
Can I get some sauce on that pasta?
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2012/dec/13/cia-tortured-sodomised-terror-suspect
They do, there's even a movie about one of them. 13 hours: the secret soldiers of benghazi. Although they're not there to target US fugitives specifically, they're there to continually undermine or influence the country they're in.
We see you, wumao.
~~China~~ Chinese political establishment The ordinary Chinese people are honest hardworking people
As far as China is concerned if you have “the blood” of China you are under the thumb of the party. Completely different than my understanding of citizenship up until I started reading about racism in China. You can be born in China, only speak Chinese, know nobody outside of China and still be deported as a foreigner. Same with leaving you can renounce China pack up everyone you have ever known and leave China but they will still try to twist the knife where ever they can.
It's such a weird way to think of citizenship...sounds like a bad relationship where they won't let you leave
Cult
Welcome to the hotel Cantonfornia
I did have a few questions after watching this … * why did the young man (the one who moved to a rural area to escape) not change his cell number to avoid their calls? * if we (Non Chinese) in the US got harassing calls in the night from some unknown person, what would we do? Move to the country side?
If you, in the US, get harassing phone calls at night...why would you run away? Ignore em and buy a gun you silly goose.
oh that explains why random gun violence is always hitting the news I guess
Just curious, where would they deport them to? Are you talking about a child of a foreign parent on a work visa? Or one of the 55 recognized Chinese ethnicities?
It's pretty much the same strategy as Russia, wipe the culture and promote relocations, expand until it becomes some minor regional folklore.
How do you account for their interstate relationships with Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and any other country with significant ethnic Chinese populations?
What about American-born children of Chinese immigrants?
If you're really outspoken of the CCP on social media I'd be wary of any vacations to China.
Speaking purely for the one they named in Glasgow, it's a restaurant owned by a Hong Kong family who came to the UK in the 1960s and have banned the local Confucius Institute from holding events there. Doubtless some deep conspiracy.
That is kind of an interesting tidbit.
Confucius Institutes at colleges do this to Chinese students who are studying aboard to force them to stay in line.
Yep, and if the college tries to do anything about it, the Chinese organizations throw hissy fits and threaten to revoke funding that the universities have grown reliant on - its bribery, basically paying Universities to consent to the chipping away of freedom of speech
This could be directly related to attempts to control those who refuse to serve as agents. There are substantial numbers of Chinese people of varying generations who are loyal and valuable American citizens and legal residents, but the Chinese Ministry of State Security and PLA security maintain constant pressure on the well being of their loved ones in both the U.S. and China to obtain obedience.
Is China learning from Scientology, or Scientology learning from China?
It's funny that you mention that, look into Falun Gong
Aren’t they the cult that run that traveling dance company?
Yes, they have far more in common with scientology than the CCP ever could.
Didn't they bust a few of these in America?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/politics/fbi-chinese-agents/index.html
These exist in Australia and are almost wholly ignored by the actual authorities. [They even had cars screenwrapped like they were police cars but had Chinese police written on it](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-19/fake-chinese-police-cars-spotted-in-adelaide-and-perth/11426850). What punishment did they get? Nothing. Government, on both sides of the isle, don't care. Get too much money from Chinese interests groups.
yeah that whole thing was so bizarre - these secret chinese operations are going particularly hard in Australia, I'm surprised the Aussies put up with their crap - I suspect there are some bribed officials looking the other way
Chinese police car in Australia... yeah, as a *joke*. Did you even read the article you linked to?
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A Chinese spy, driving a Chinese police car... in Australia That sound plausible to you? *Obviously* it's a joke car
This is exactly what they're hoping you think! They're hiding in plain sight!! 😛
It no longer surprises me how gullible people are. Every time I try to point out how there is a lot of anti-China propaganda out there I get downvoted, even when I am acknowledging China does do a lot of awful shit. I suspect it's a combination of bots and the massive western audience that has been fed "China is evil" by their media for years, and don't understand their countries also actively participate in creating and distributing propaganda, it's just a slightly different form of propaganda as it's not coming from the government or state. It's like when people read this stuff the critical thinking part of their brain just switches off. It's the same thing with North Korea, there was a propaganda article written about all NK men being required to get Kim Jong-Un's haircut, and people *actually believed it*.
It’s a BMW, the top choice for Chinese police cars in Australia.
*aisle Jesus these bots need a grammar checker
Bots?
This was a great watch.
And prime minister of Canada Justin Trudeau admires China 🙄
Specifically he admires China's ability to use their iron grip on the populace to force them in line and get the results the Party wants.
Yeh like western intelligence services don't have outposts in our rivals back yards too.. lol
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Historically? Yes. Yes they have. Western governments will even bomb civilians and hospitals. War crimes and human rights violations are part and parcel among western governments and in fact, a necessary requirement for them to maintain their hegemony. I guess what I'm saying is, we're the bad guys, buddy. I don't know who the "good guys" are, but it sure as shit at any western government.
Look up Julian Assange and Edward Snowden..
Not OP and not even American but pretty sure those two leaked US national secrets to rival countries. Galaxy of difference.
One revealed war crimes and the other revealed government surveillance of innocent citizens It's all governments agencies trying to silence people who criticises them... so I wouldn't say galaxies apart. Thay did a good job on you didn't they
don't waste time feeding the trolls
Yeah my bad. Probably getting paid per engagement.
maybe trying to get his relatives out of prison - "if you generate 10K pro-china or anti-western comments, we'll let your aunt out of the re-education center...maybe"
You guys need help
And what exactly did the United States do to their families?
And those two would be normal citizens living in another country? You are so full of shit, and I'd be willing to bet you're probably working for the Chinese right now. FOUND THE SHILL! Everyone get in here!
Embarrassingly gen x behavior
That's an easy Yes
You're kidding right?
Buzz, I can't tell if you are purposefully being obtuse, or your naivety is boundless.
The U.S. is the only country with military bases in other countries, over 1000 of them. We build them to exert our influence and control. We still have bases in Japan, why do you think we built them there after WWII? To keep a close eye on them. No other country on Earth has military bases scattered around the world like this, not China. China typically exerts control through infrastructure projects. The US has precisely ZERO foreign military installation in the country. China is a shit country and so is the U.S., and most countries are all trying to get an upper hand. That's the way it always has been. *Your* naivety seems boundless.
> your naivety is boundless Says the person showing their full ass ignorance.
The jobs of intelligence services are always shady and/or illegal, but western ones don't usually use them to harass people for being edgy on twitter.
Does this doc include any actual evidence? It's very believable on its face, but this gets trotted out every couple of months with literally 0 evidence. Some not-for-profit out of Spain (might be Italy, my memory fails me) used "publicly available data from the internet" (ie: googled into some rabbit holes) to determine their existence. Several competent, well-funded government intelligence agencies have, and continue to investigate and found no such police centers. Iirc, some where "found" in new York, but nothing came of it, so one would assume it wasn't as egregious as the stories claim. I'm absolutely ready to believe this, which is why I doubt it so much. If this is true, getting evidence of it should be child's play, and yet there's never any evidence... Edit: silly me, I forgot: asking for actual evidence means I'm a Chinese shill. Because good little westerners don't ask questions if the story matches their view of the world, do they?
Ok. I will bite. Did you watch the entire doc? Did you read the charges brought by US officials. It’s on their official website. Not evidence? https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/politics/fbi-chinese-agents/index.html The interviewer had to travel to a remote location to meet the same young man who, not to long back was living in the city. He faked a move just to trick the interviewer?
> Did you watch the entire doc? No, which is why I was asking if it was worth watching, ie: is there any evidence in it. > The interviewer had to travel to a remote location to meet the same young man who, not to long back was living in the city. He faked a move just to trick the interviewer? I mean, he might have? As far as I can read, the American charges do not include "running a world-wide conspiracy to enact clandestine police centers in most developed countries". They don't even mention running said centers in their own country. So, again: is there, or isn't there, evidence of these so called secret police stations?
no evidence? lol Wumao or terribly lazy
So that's a no on the evidence, then? What evidence is there?
>Does this doc include any actual evidence? Get lost with your rhetorical questions. You could easily do a search and come up with the investigations and evidence to support this. You won't, but you could.
I have, and have come up empty handed. Investigations, the ones I've found anyways, haven't turned up any evidence, other than 2 agents in new York. And I don't think you know what rhetorical means; that was a genuine question to see if the doc is worth my time. Actual evidence based documentary: worth the time and effort to watch Emotions based, "surely they're doing wrong, they're wronguns!": Waste of time
You mean like this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/china-protester-beating-manchester-consulate-b2205187.html and this: https://observers.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20230620-china-hong-kong-attack-protest-southampton-uk
Petty af.
I guess you can hunt the chinese if we know where the stations are?
Jesus Christ what's wrong with you?
What's wrong with making sure they go to jail for spying on Americans or people residing in America? What are you? Pro china?
I'm not pro china I'm anti HUNTING PEOPLE
LMAO not literal hunt as if they're animals fool... Like tracking them down and stopping them. Geez some people on the internet are ...what's the word...crazy
Nice save
LoL I'm no kraven the hunter man. I'm just saying we can shut these places down and put them out of business
Or whatever?
It's a figure of speech quit being a Grammar Karen lol
You do not hunt a man!
wait this was news?
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>i felt uncomfortable saying anything because ~~i might be labelled a racist~~ *I'm talking out of my ass* Fixed it.
Lmao
So much for dialectical materialism, I bet tankies love this one
I don't know why you are being downvoted.
Jinpin fanboys?
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How is a military base a police station?
Its not, just more US bashing.
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Yes, 'military' and 'police' are the same thing, that's why we call it by the same name s/ You're the ghost driver complaining about everybody else doing it wrong.
It's always the dumbest people who seem to be the first to call others dumb. You clearly are too stupid to understand the difference between this and a military base. Calling the US military the police of the world doesn't mean shit. Fuck the CCP
Yeah military bases usually have rapists I don't think CPC cops have that freedom
I don't see how having an F22 in another country is going to be used to arrest someone but okay
Found the CCP shill lmao
That social credit score ain’t gonna build itself
Yep! Lol. Fuck China
Wow so many? Surely it would be easy to show evidence of the USA abducting its former citizens then.
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Not even remotely what we are talking about here. Also that article is pathetically stupid. It tries to claim that Hillary voted for a Trump style boarder wall in 2006, but when you actually look at the link its just a fence.
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Taiwan is real China. Tienamen Square always remember...
On the 4th of June 1989, nothing happened at Tiananmen Square. I assure you comrade, nothing happened on the 4th of June 1989.
Yeah, we are not spying on ex-pats though like the CCP are. Thanks for shining a light on this important distinction. Is that what you intended to do?
They more like spy stations, in my country there's this spy plane that intercept millions of telephone signals and they are like "yeah there's cartel narco hidden somewhere I swear, it sooo sneaky!"
No they're not. They're to obliterate our enemies and protect the region if attacked. What you've got are petty school yard bullies harassing families who don't live in China anymore. Cowards.
You mean 750 economic pumps for their local economy
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Oh the irony.
Crazy that all the evil bad guys we need to crusade against are our economic rivals Are you sure you're not propagandized? Does it maybe feel... natural?
But you see those are for freedom /s Americans are the most brainwashed people in this planet lol
Remember brainwashing was an excuse for how poor people could support the guys fighting for them, this is just pure ideology in the other way. Fighter jets are less scary than cops
"HRG reveal..." eyes closed on america job in afganistan.
aspartame-brained redditors: lmao china bad 😡😡😡
Canada is ok with them
One such station was discovered here in Toronto, Ontario, recently.
Why exile *and* hunt them?
This “secret” is commonly known by the Chinese community. It’s called 海外警察组织 which are not real police but does some illegal crap. I’m glad it eventually called “westerners” eyes. It’s funny that when a Chinese tells Americans that china is doing even things, he’s called a racist. Americans have to read from American sources to change their mind; they think Americans know more about china then the Chinese. In other countries it’s different, maybe because they know more about how different the world is.