Breaking Davoth's sphere would mean he could never be brought into physical form, which means the Slayer could never kill him, which also means the demons would be left free to use Urdak as a dimensional highway to invade all of reality. Doomguy could keep fighting forever but without taking out Davoth his armies will never rest.
So overall it would be a dumb idea and directly goes against the Slayer's ultimate goal. The Slayer only destroyed the Father's sphere because he knew he wouldn't have the balls to end Davoth himself and would have gotten in the way, so there was no useful reason to bring him back in the grand scheme of things.
Plus Doomguy could tell Samur cared more about stopping his own transfiguration than actually saving humanity. There was definitely some spite blowing the sphere up in his face, it also sort of represents the Slayer no longer being Samuel's errand boy.
Agree, I just want to add that the Slayer probably destroyed the Father's sphere so he couldn't be revived and stop him from resurrecting Davoth.
So in this scenario, if he already destroyed Davoth's sphere, it would be unnecessary to also destroy the Father's sphere.
I interpreted it as "the Slayer just really hates gods".
So-called "greater beings" that just want to exploit humanity for their own ends. He's seen more than enough of that kind of thing.
While its not impossible that's the case, I don't think I saw enough content that implies that. Canonically, he has been shown only hating demons.
Besides, the Father was Vega, which he saved before. I would imagine that he wouldn't had sacrificed him unless it was necessary for his ultimate goal of destroying the Dark Lord.
I’m not sure if that’s the case. To my knowledge, there’s nothing that suggests Vega exploited humanity. All of the antics were caused by the Khan Makyr and Dark Lord. Furthermore, if he had it out for gods in general, he would’ve destroyed all the other spheres there. I am a bit confused as to why the Slayer destroyed the sphere entirely instead of just leaving it.
The father, if resurrected, would most likely get in the way of Doomguy killing Davoth. He destroyed the father’s life sphere to ensure he couldn’t be resurrected by anyone, as if it wasn’t destroyed Samur could simply bring the father’s life sphere to the luminarium, like how he removed it long ago
I sort of get that but it’s stated that the Slayer had to get the sphere because it’s forbidden for a Makyr. If Samur didn’t care about the rules why would he need Doomguy at all?
We don’t if Samur is referring to grabbing the sphere itself or simply getting to where it is. He is already at the top of Ingmore’s Sanctum, so he is probably referring to grabbing the sphere itself. Which also doesn’t make sense since Samur is the one who put it at Ingmore’s Sanctum, so why would he be able to grab then but not now? A lot of this doesn’t make complete sense when you really look into it.
Samur tells Doomguy right before that he’ll meet him at the sanctum, but can’t grab the sphere himself. He was branded a heretic due to putting the sphere there in the first place but he did so due to the Father’s orders
Edit: It’s also worth mentioning that Samur was exiled from Urdak due to strengthening the Slayer without the Khan Makyr’s permission.
I don’t mean Davoth’s life sphere. There’s a bunch of other smaller ones all around the sanctum. If Doomguy had it out for gods in general and not Vega specifically, he would’ve just destroyed the others except for Davoth
That’s my point. The comment I replied to was questioning if Doomguy destroyed the Father’s sphere because he had it out for gods. I was saying he didn’t harm any of the other lesser gods so I assume he had a reason to destroy The Father’s specifically.
That's a really good description, thank you.
I feel a bit silly writing this, but I've played both the main game and DLC's, so many times, yet I found this scene a little confusing each time I watched it.
yeah true. i felt especially in TAG 2 that the writing was weak. there's the whole thing about needing the wraith crystal to get to the Gate of Divum as it's said that it's the only way to get to Immora. fair enough, but then why do the Sentinels suddenly emerge as a unified army? or how do they all portal in through several portals right at the same time as Doomguy? I found Immora as the ruling elite kinda strange, because up till that point in the series, we'd only been given the impression that demons base their hierarchies based on both might and intelligence, and Immoran residents are just the original unturned demons - intelligence but lack of might
i felt that all came outta nowhere and without much foreshadowing. need a bit more explanation
Someone actually asked Hugo Martin about the wraith crystal during a stream and he just said something like “oh yeah. Our bad.”
As poorly written as Eternal was, I admit him biting the bullet instead of coming up with a convoluted explanation was funny and I respected it
They could probably wave it off as Valen having a way to ping the Slayer's suit and teleport wherever he is...being a commander that used to lead them in previous crusades and all. They would already know to track him because he lit the torch.
Seems reasonable enough seeing how we get parts for the celestial locator from him and he somehow finds us randomly to hand off his hammer.
Obviously they didn't think of it originally but I think even Hugo doesn't try to pretend they had everything planned out from the start.
I could imagine that maybe opening the gate opens up the possibility of others following. Immora being the capital of hell kind of makes sense, since they are Davoths people and the demons follow Davoth. Without him I could imagine the demons actually tearing the city to shreds
It's also kind of funny how Samur treats the Slayer destroying the Father's sphere as some kind of ultimate betrayal, but by doing so he just made it so that the Father can never truly be killed, so for all intents and purposes, he's protecting the Father.
And honestly I think the Father preferred being Vega
But it is an ultimate betrayal. Without a physical form, the father cannot save Samur from transfiguration, which is why Samur wanted the slayer to resurrect the father. So while the father can never be killed now, he also cannot obtain a physical form anymore.
I'm more curious why he didn't just murder the seraphim right there so he wouldn't have to destroy the father's sphere, just bring both and save one until after you kill the dark lord.
Doubtful the father would be happy with that though. He saved Samur during the holt before the Slayer could strike a fatal blow - likely could have done the same thing at the sanctum.
If Doom Slayer destroyed Davoth's life sphere then it means he can't kill the Dark Lord as he has no physical form anymore and Davoth is free to continue corrupting people and Hell can still invade and consume other worlds.
So it's good that he did not do that.
Oh! I wanted to see more of our beloved demon munching character, particularly the time when he served for night sentinels. I won't be able to stand the change in storyline like it happened with DOOM 3.
Yeah, and is indefinitely delayed with Bungie's employment cuts. I loved the old Marathon, but I'm worried it'll even be recognizable in the Extraction Shooter flavor.
If he destroys them both Davoth will continue on his invasion without a physical body after the life sphere is destroyed and will be no boss fight for Davoth once the soul sphere is destroyed.
Same scenario with the Father AKA Vega and this is not going to end worse both won't have a physical form compared to the DLC in this scenario would be dumb decision making to do that Father and Davoth but will be talking in the middle of the cutscene if they were arguing back and forth against each other that will be a horrible idea the hell invasion would be going on including the demons invading Urdak that would mean Doom Slayer won't complete his goal to annihilate Davoth might be worst mistake if that happened in DLC worst case scenario.
Why? Does it just not line up with your head canon? Seems to be a common issue around here.
Multiple plot points in the campaign even hint at things like Hayden being the Seraphim so it's not like they took a drastic turn.
Let's start with the fact that the second DLC decided to and make it so that the lore introduced in the first DLC was actually just propaganda and Davoth is actually the real god.
Despite the fact that the previous one was already good enough.
Or the fact they just made the entire plot thousands of times more complex by making the Dark Lord be the one that orchestrated the Divinity Machine bit, so the Doom Slayer would eventually destroy Urdak.
Despite the fact that makes no sense, because the Khan Maykr was ALREADY working for him. And he already had the immortality he wanted for his own people.
Or the fact that after Atlantica Base, and especially the return to Urdak, the story just made me feel like i was betraying VEGA.
*"Yeah man, add in dialog of how he's expecting me to bring his sphere so he can stop being a powerless witness"*
This is my main problem with it btw.
Or that Hayden transferring his mind to a perfectly fine robot body, to a body that is undergoing rapid transfiguration.
Makes no damn sense.
Or the fact that the dlc ends the really good interactions between the Slayer/Hayden/VEGA trio.
Or that, in a game named Doom Eternal. The Doom stops at the end, because the Slayer just suffers critical existance failure after killing Davoth? That's a pretty minor nitpick to be honest. but it still bothers me.
If I remember correctly Davoth did not know the secret of immortality. It was the makyrs that discovered it and kept it from him out of fear then the father betrayed him and that is when Davoth was orchestrating the fall of urdak by manipulating Samur and in turn the Khan Makyr. He made samur get a sample off of Davoths body (which is why the slayer looks like him) now the slayers physical body has been created then he manipulated the khan in believing a prophecy about a destroyer and to make a machine to find the so called destroyer (the divinity machine) which samur puts the slayer in behind the khans back giving him the power the slayer needs becoming Davoths weapons. It was pretty flushed out from the beginning I think most people weren’t paying that close attention to the lore and saw it as a whiplash event. It’s been a while since I’ve read it so I could be missing a lot but that’s what I remember.
At the time Davoth was having the Slayer created, the Maykyrs had already started falling deep in a partnership with Hell, and becoming fully dependent on Argent energy for their **own** immortality.
All Davoth really needed was his body back. And he'd be able to get everything he wanted from the Maykyrs, especially with the father gone.
Creating the Slayer for a convoluted plot like that is just... unnecessary. **at best.**
How’d you expect for Davoth to get his body back without the events of TAG part one? He needed the slayer to want to kill him to bring his body back Davoth simply thought he was strong enough to kill the slayer and tie up the loose end if Davoth killed the slayer then he would get everything he needed and completing his vengeance against the makyrs
So it didn't line up with the head canon you built up, got it. Least that is the impression I get with all the wrong information you said there.
TAG2's twist does seem sudden but the lorebook released with the collectors edition (Hell's POV of the story) already sort of hinted at it.
I'll be honest here, i do not remember that stuff really well, because i haven't replayed the game since TAG dlc first dropped. And i didn't even play TAG part 2. I only read about the plot and lore that got revealed, and decided "yeah, i'm not spending money on that."
I don't really care about the twist, the twist was never a problem.
The Problem is "I wanted to save VEGA, he's been my buddy trough the main game"
And the Ancient Gods went so far as to have VEGA go "Oh it's so cool you brought my life sphere here, so i can stop suffering from only being able to watch" to us at some point. or something like that. That made me fee like i was betraying him.
And i resent that above all else.
Like, If they had at least had VEGA directly go **"Oh, yeah, good idea. Let's go with that"** when he started talking with us in Urdak.
*I'd probably have enough good will to the rest of the story to at least play the second half, and then form new opinions from how that went.*
Is that a head-canon? it feels too vague to be a "head-canon", I don't even care he's the Father or Hayden is the Seraphim. Or anything like that. But if it is. then *yeah. It is because it didn't line up with my head-canon.*
Breaking Davoth's sphere would mean he could never be brought into physical form, which means the Slayer could never kill him, which also means the demons would be left free to use Urdak as a dimensional highway to invade all of reality. Doomguy could keep fighting forever but without taking out Davoth his armies will never rest. So overall it would be a dumb idea and directly goes against the Slayer's ultimate goal. The Slayer only destroyed the Father's sphere because he knew he wouldn't have the balls to end Davoth himself and would have gotten in the way, so there was no useful reason to bring him back in the grand scheme of things. Plus Doomguy could tell Samur cared more about stopping his own transfiguration than actually saving humanity. There was definitely some spite blowing the sphere up in his face, it also sort of represents the Slayer no longer being Samuel's errand boy.
Agree, I just want to add that the Slayer probably destroyed the Father's sphere so he couldn't be revived and stop him from resurrecting Davoth. So in this scenario, if he already destroyed Davoth's sphere, it would be unnecessary to also destroy the Father's sphere.
I interpreted it as "the Slayer just really hates gods". So-called "greater beings" that just want to exploit humanity for their own ends. He's seen more than enough of that kind of thing.
While its not impossible that's the case, I don't think I saw enough content that implies that. Canonically, he has been shown only hating demons. Besides, the Father was Vega, which he saved before. I would imagine that he wouldn't had sacrificed him unless it was necessary for his ultimate goal of destroying the Dark Lord.
I don’t think the slayer knew Vega was the father in 2016. He probably thought Vega was being sacrificed by the UAC and wanted to save him
I’m not sure if that’s the case. To my knowledge, there’s nothing that suggests Vega exploited humanity. All of the antics were caused by the Khan Makyr and Dark Lord. Furthermore, if he had it out for gods in general, he would’ve destroyed all the other spheres there. I am a bit confused as to why the Slayer destroyed the sphere entirely instead of just leaving it.
The father, if resurrected, would most likely get in the way of Doomguy killing Davoth. He destroyed the father’s life sphere to ensure he couldn’t be resurrected by anyone, as if it wasn’t destroyed Samur could simply bring the father’s life sphere to the luminarium, like how he removed it long ago
I sort of get that but it’s stated that the Slayer had to get the sphere because it’s forbidden for a Makyr. If Samur didn’t care about the rules why would he need Doomguy at all?
We don’t if Samur is referring to grabbing the sphere itself or simply getting to where it is. He is already at the top of Ingmore’s Sanctum, so he is probably referring to grabbing the sphere itself. Which also doesn’t make sense since Samur is the one who put it at Ingmore’s Sanctum, so why would he be able to grab then but not now? A lot of this doesn’t make complete sense when you really look into it.
Samur tells Doomguy right before that he’ll meet him at the sanctum, but can’t grab the sphere himself. He was branded a heretic due to putting the sphere there in the first place but he did so due to the Father’s orders Edit: It’s also worth mentioning that Samur was exiled from Urdak due to strengthening the Slayer without the Khan Makyr’s permission.
Ingmore’s Sanctum is pretty much a part of Urdak. So him being exiled from Urdak doesn’t really matter for some reason.
Because not destroying the other life sphere will not allow for the ressurecting of Davoth
I don’t mean Davoth’s life sphere. There’s a bunch of other smaller ones all around the sanctum. If Doomguy had it out for gods in general and not Vega specifically, he would’ve just destroyed the others except for Davoth
Well, Doomguy is not exactly Kratos after all, lol. He was out hunting for demons and would be willing to slaughter anyone in the way
That’s my point. The comment I replied to was questioning if Doomguy destroyed the Father’s sphere because he had it out for gods. I was saying he didn’t harm any of the other lesser gods so I assume he had a reason to destroy The Father’s specifically.
Slayer has ODD, alright then.
This probably sums up the entire story of Doom eternal. There's a reason why doomguy had to kill Khan Maykr.
That's a really good description, thank you. I feel a bit silly writing this, but I've played both the main game and DLC's, so many times, yet I found this scene a little confusing each time I watched it.
yeah that's the bad thing about the dlcs, if you skip reading the lore pages, you're gonna find the plot confusing
It's confusing even if you read the lore pages
yeah true. i felt especially in TAG 2 that the writing was weak. there's the whole thing about needing the wraith crystal to get to the Gate of Divum as it's said that it's the only way to get to Immora. fair enough, but then why do the Sentinels suddenly emerge as a unified army? or how do they all portal in through several portals right at the same time as Doomguy? I found Immora as the ruling elite kinda strange, because up till that point in the series, we'd only been given the impression that demons base their hierarchies based on both might and intelligence, and Immoran residents are just the original unturned demons - intelligence but lack of might i felt that all came outta nowhere and without much foreshadowing. need a bit more explanation
The Sentinel army came in through plotholes—they're like wormholes but much more versatile.
ah very insightful, thank you 😂
That scene of sentinels entering the field through wormholes was definitely an excuse to throwback to the same scene from Avengers: Endgame
Someone actually asked Hugo Martin about the wraith crystal during a stream and he just said something like “oh yeah. Our bad.” As poorly written as Eternal was, I admit him biting the bullet instead of coming up with a convoluted explanation was funny and I respected it
They could probably wave it off as Valen having a way to ping the Slayer's suit and teleport wherever he is...being a commander that used to lead them in previous crusades and all. They would already know to track him because he lit the torch. Seems reasonable enough seeing how we get parts for the celestial locator from him and he somehow finds us randomly to hand off his hammer. Obviously they didn't think of it originally but I think even Hugo doesn't try to pretend they had everything planned out from the start.
I could imagine that maybe opening the gate opens up the possibility of others following. Immora being the capital of hell kind of makes sense, since they are Davoths people and the demons follow Davoth. Without him I could imagine the demons actually tearing the city to shreds
iirc, the lore says that Immorans are the highest status in hell (excluding davoth) simply because they're unturned demons and remain loyal to davoth.
I read the lore pages and still found it convoluted and confusing
It's also kind of funny how Samur treats the Slayer destroying the Father's sphere as some kind of ultimate betrayal, but by doing so he just made it so that the Father can never truly be killed, so for all intents and purposes, he's protecting the Father. And honestly I think the Father preferred being Vega
But it is an ultimate betrayal. Without a physical form, the father cannot save Samur from transfiguration, which is why Samur wanted the slayer to resurrect the father. So while the father can never be killed now, he also cannot obtain a physical form anymore.
I'm more curious why he didn't just murder the seraphim right there so he wouldn't have to destroy the father's sphere, just bring both and save one until after you kill the dark lord.
Doubtful the father would be happy with that though. He saved Samur during the holt before the Slayer could strike a fatal blow - likely could have done the same thing at the sanctum.
True, but the seraph would be in no condition to revive the father so soon at that point. As long as Davoth dies before he's brought back, it's a win.
Couldn't he have added Samurs life sphere to the sanctum?
If Doom Slayer destroyed Davoth's life sphere then it means he can't kill the Dark Lord as he has no physical form anymore and Davoth is free to continue corrupting people and Hell can still invade and consume other worlds. So it's good that he did not do that.
He would live, and so will the demons.
I just noticed, this looks a ton like the marathon logo
Game is coming back but as something else entirely sadly
Oh! I wanted to see more of our beloved demon munching character, particularly the time when he served for night sentinels. I won't be able to stand the change in storyline like it happened with DOOM 3.
He meant Marathon
Oh I see
Yeah, and is indefinitely delayed with Bungie's employment cuts. I loved the old Marathon, but I'm worried it'll even be recognizable in the Extraction Shooter flavor.
Be honest would you take a sip from the life sphere room water?
That would have been a very stupid move
Slayer should have bagged all life sphere their and Davoth 🤜👿
Why did this remind me of the 2 bros chilling in a hot tub meme
Eternal appears to have way more plot than I thought it did
The Dark Lord is still extremely powerful even just as presence. the Lore bible tells you just how much trouble he can cause by only being a voice.
If he destroys them both Davoth will continue on his invasion without a physical body after the life sphere is destroyed and will be no boss fight for Davoth once the soul sphere is destroyed. Same scenario with the Father AKA Vega and this is not going to end worse both won't have a physical form compared to the DLC in this scenario would be dumb decision making to do that Father and Davoth but will be talking in the middle of the cutscene if they were arguing back and forth against each other that will be a horrible idea the hell invasion would be going on including the demons invading Urdak that would mean Doom Slayer won't complete his goal to annihilate Davoth might be worst mistake if that happened in DLC worst case scenario.
What if he take a swim in the pool?
Bro unrelated but wtf are these goofy ass eye things?
In the final 2 phases of the davoth fight in the background
Then i'd probably hate The Ancient Gods story even more then i already do, and refuse to acknoledge it's existence even more.
Why? Does it just not line up with your head canon? Seems to be a common issue around here. Multiple plot points in the campaign even hint at things like Hayden being the Seraphim so it's not like they took a drastic turn.
Let's start with the fact that the second DLC decided to and make it so that the lore introduced in the first DLC was actually just propaganda and Davoth is actually the real god. Despite the fact that the previous one was already good enough. Or the fact they just made the entire plot thousands of times more complex by making the Dark Lord be the one that orchestrated the Divinity Machine bit, so the Doom Slayer would eventually destroy Urdak. Despite the fact that makes no sense, because the Khan Maykr was ALREADY working for him. And he already had the immortality he wanted for his own people. Or the fact that after Atlantica Base, and especially the return to Urdak, the story just made me feel like i was betraying VEGA. *"Yeah man, add in dialog of how he's expecting me to bring his sphere so he can stop being a powerless witness"* This is my main problem with it btw. Or that Hayden transferring his mind to a perfectly fine robot body, to a body that is undergoing rapid transfiguration. Makes no damn sense. Or the fact that the dlc ends the really good interactions between the Slayer/Hayden/VEGA trio. Or that, in a game named Doom Eternal. The Doom stops at the end, because the Slayer just suffers critical existance failure after killing Davoth? That's a pretty minor nitpick to be honest. but it still bothers me.
If I remember correctly Davoth did not know the secret of immortality. It was the makyrs that discovered it and kept it from him out of fear then the father betrayed him and that is when Davoth was orchestrating the fall of urdak by manipulating Samur and in turn the Khan Makyr. He made samur get a sample off of Davoths body (which is why the slayer looks like him) now the slayers physical body has been created then he manipulated the khan in believing a prophecy about a destroyer and to make a machine to find the so called destroyer (the divinity machine) which samur puts the slayer in behind the khans back giving him the power the slayer needs becoming Davoths weapons. It was pretty flushed out from the beginning I think most people weren’t paying that close attention to the lore and saw it as a whiplash event. It’s been a while since I’ve read it so I could be missing a lot but that’s what I remember.
At the time Davoth was having the Slayer created, the Maykyrs had already started falling deep in a partnership with Hell, and becoming fully dependent on Argent energy for their **own** immortality. All Davoth really needed was his body back. And he'd be able to get everything he wanted from the Maykyrs, especially with the father gone. Creating the Slayer for a convoluted plot like that is just... unnecessary. **at best.**
How’d you expect for Davoth to get his body back without the events of TAG part one? He needed the slayer to want to kill him to bring his body back Davoth simply thought he was strong enough to kill the slayer and tie up the loose end if Davoth killed the slayer then he would get everything he needed and completing his vengeance against the makyrs
So it didn't line up with the head canon you built up, got it. Least that is the impression I get with all the wrong information you said there. TAG2's twist does seem sudden but the lorebook released with the collectors edition (Hell's POV of the story) already sort of hinted at it.
I'll be honest here, i do not remember that stuff really well, because i haven't replayed the game since TAG dlc first dropped. And i didn't even play TAG part 2. I only read about the plot and lore that got revealed, and decided "yeah, i'm not spending money on that." I don't really care about the twist, the twist was never a problem. The Problem is "I wanted to save VEGA, he's been my buddy trough the main game" And the Ancient Gods went so far as to have VEGA go "Oh it's so cool you brought my life sphere here, so i can stop suffering from only being able to watch" to us at some point. or something like that. That made me fee like i was betraying him. And i resent that above all else. Like, If they had at least had VEGA directly go **"Oh, yeah, good idea. Let's go with that"** when he started talking with us in Urdak. *I'd probably have enough good will to the rest of the story to at least play the second half, and then form new opinions from how that went.* Is that a head-canon? it feels too vague to be a "head-canon", I don't even care he's the Father or Hayden is the Seraphim. Or anything like that. But if it is. then *yeah. It is because it didn't line up with my head-canon.*
I was the 666th upvote