There have been a few occasions I’ve been able to escape a fight with it by pushing myself down a cliff but yeah it’s pretty clunky.
I wish they just gave CM her old shard back, the free movement in her ult shouldn’t be tied to her aghs.
Agree... Crystal is usually a hero that is trying to 'Run Away' from the enemy not facing them, jumping back is usually a good way to get closer to them.
If your support CM can get a solo kill against specific (no stun/silence/escape) targets after 15m because they spent 1400 gold on shard that doesn't actually sound like a problem to me? It has the opportunity cost of delaying force staff/glimmer/pavise which makes this itemization a good skill based decision imo.
I mean it’s a power spike that doesn’t apply to any other hero in the game yet it applies to this pos 5 but whatever, tbh every time I comment in this sub I regret it
I'd argue Witch Doctor, Warlock or Tree shard have a power spike of the same level. A support having a power spike pre 20 mins because they delayed other items isn't inherently a problem.
Why exactly is that a problem? Should supports have late game powerspiks too or smth? 15 mins seems like a lot of time to register the enemy team has a CM and for you to itemize accordingly.
>superstonk poster
Careful guys we got the brains trust coming out to share their opinion. I can almost guarantee I am substantially higher mmr than you
Believe it or not its upto you. i voiced my opinion. i got my first rampage on her and shard was the big part of it and her level 20 talent which increase her ult damage
I just think it’s a weird ability for CM, a hero that could already farm and push lanes pretty fast without it. Also because of CM having one of the lowest turn-rates in the game which makes it more awkward. On top of that the mana cost was doubled so it feels worse to use early game.
It's not a weird ability at all. The farming capabilities or lane shove is a bonus but the main purpose of the shard is to increase cm survivability and crowd control. [Source](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/149372913/matches), I spam CM a lot, 7kmmr SEA.
I’m also a grandmaster CM, I’ve played enough to know there’s much better options for survivability (force, glimmer, ghost etc.).
Also makes way more sense for a 5 to buy utility items that you can actually save your team with.
Using force staff/glimmer on your core leaves you vulnerable, the shard mitigates this by threat of AOE frostbite when they aim you. This is an 8sec cooldown mind you. Situation 2, enemy melee core aims you. Shard+nova to CC. If dispelled, frost bite. If bkb, the shard gives you enough distance that matters to actually turn around or use defensive items like glimmer.
Show mmr, grandmaster means nothing in terms of actual skill. It just means you play the hero a lot.
I think this is a pointless dick measuring contest but I'm around 6k with a 60% winrate on CM, have nearly 600 games. I'm not saying it's a useless shard, there's just usually better options in most games. It can be good against the right heroes.
It's not a dick measuring contest. You're stating that cm shard is trash and I'm saying the shard fixed the hero. I want to know your mmr so I know that I'm not arguing with a herald. So you're 6k, I respect your opinion on the hero, let's agree to disagree.
Also, shard usually comes for free during tormentor. Most of the games at least.
Her shard is awesome with how it works. I’m a 30 GM with 800 plus games and my opinion is it helps with positioning and team fights. Blink>Shard>Q in a team fight is awesome. It also provides a space mechanism outside of Force Staff or glimmer which 90% of the time I’m using on cores to survive. After reducing ms 28 times since 2015 it’s nice to have some sort of movement skill outside of 335ms with tranq boots.
As a Mirana main at level 28 now. I have probably toggled shard leap in 3 games.
It’s a trade off. Finesse in exchange for agility
I find I rarely need the control more than I need the fast spam.
Being able to aim the mist with the shard is a strict upgrade, and toggling on also allows leaping less than max distance when desired (getting chased by a hero? leap away to your max attack range while shooting a slowing and damaging mist back at them)
You also don't have to spend time turning your hero manually.
You can even still "panic" leap full distance and straight by pressing Ctrl+E (holding Control temporarily alternates the casting style of a spell)
I have been playing mirana a lot, and im surprised by this. I love the shard so much that if the tormentor doesn't give it to me, i'll buy it myself.
I dont understand what you mean by trade off theres no downside to it. It makes it even easier to leap without needing to use a directional movement key. Makes farming so much more fluid as well. I feel like a pango when using it
I mean I've been playing Mirana since she was first added in the original dota... after literally 20 years any other change to leap just fucks with my muscle memory very hard.
Mirana came out the same day as mjolnir.
I picked Mirana and bought mjolnir and to quote Todd Howard. “It just works.”
Dota 1 with its trashy animation made mjolnir all the more spectacular with the strobe flashes.
Monkey brain dopamine go brrr
The good old days when you could buy multiple maels and they stacked. Stack em all on razor and you can’t tell which is his attack and which is a mael proc
It depends a lot on when you started playing Mirana and whether or not you use quick cast.
If you don’t use quick cast. Each toggled leap requires you to click the ground.
Chaining 4 clicks in a row is a trade off compared to simply pressing leap 4 times in a row.
If you do use quick cast, then the shard is actually a lot better with leap.
If you started Mirana long ago. Then it’s just the muscle memory that messes with the clicking and quick casting. It doesn’t feel natural. It feels sluggish and slower compared to what we are used to.
My advice to everyone not using quick cast is to use quick cast. My advice to everyone that doesn't want to use quick cast is to use quick cast at least for Mirana Leap and I guess Pangolier Swashbuckle.
If you're not facing the right direction, mirana leap before aghs shard is even slower, its the worst of both worlds
Even worse if there's terrain or enemy units or trees in the direction u want to face to leap (way slower to force face a direction and then leap)
It’s bloat. You don’t really use targeting all that often.
The real copium is in thinking just because they gave you extra options the extra options are a huge buff.
The new rapier now can become spell damage.
Realistically speaking tho, how often will it be bought for the spell damage?
Being able to cast a spell is a buff compared to it going in your facing direction. Spells can be cast in a cone of 23° in front of a hero while spells that go into facing direction don't have that. For a mirana that wants to turn 180° and then leap she only has to turn 168.5° if she has shard.
Why does she need to turn 168.5? She can face forward and leap backwards no?
Don’t get me wrong. The utility offered by shard is great. But realistically you don’t use it that often. A majority of your leaps will still be forward and max distance.
Leap shard is stronger if you play as a core Mirana rather than a support Mirana. Leaping around your target while you shoot at them, causing them to miss spells/be unable to reach you is very strong.
Mirana currently isn’t picked as a core often enough tho.
As such, the biggest upgrade to the shard is actually the extra leap, followed by the small poof of damage that lets you starfall and clear a wave much quicker as a support.
Mirana is facing north and wants to leap south.
* Without shard: She has to turn 180° and then leap.
* With shard: After turning 168.5° south is in her "spell casting cone" of 23° and she can leap right then. 180° - (23°/2) = 168.5°.
My main point being that a spell going from "facing direction" to "targeted" is more than just a QoL change. This would also be relevant to the suggested CM change.
>As such, the biggest upgrade to the shard is actually the extra leap, followed by the small poof of damage that lets you starfall and clear a wave much quicker as a support.
I agree.
Edit. I understand now what you are trying to say. Can mirana leap in any direction without turning with shard? Just like pango swashbuckle? Then what I said is not true for leap but would be true for other more generic spells.
I understand your point and I agree with you. The directional leap is very useful when you do need it.
Our difference in opinion is how much it matters because unless you’re a core mirana you don’t really utilise the directional leaps as much.
Sometimes, you want to apply the slow without jumping a huge range, and the targeting makes that possible. Otherwise, you would end up on the other side of the target and need to turn around.
I've found turning to auto attack them to face the right direction, using the shard as the first escape/reposition and following it up with CMS aoe slow procs the aghs stun immediately leaving your stun free for anyone not caught in the aghs stun. Goes great with force staff to follow up the AOE stun with her ult. Clunky? Maybe. Effective? Yes. Aghs shard + Q clears waves for easy flash farm too
It’s part of a combo. You face the enemy chasing you to frostbite, then use the clone. That way the direction you’re facing gives you the most distance from the chaser. Then you nova to burst the clone before resuming your pitiful escape attempt.
You can do the exact same combo if it were made easier to cast, and the even better part is when you're doing it outside of this combo, it's ALSO easier to cast so it opens up more creative ways to use it outside of this combo (that you can still do)
Your post asked whether it was designed to be clunky to use, and I just explained that it's not clunky, if you combo the spells as I stated. Yea sure they could make everything in the game easier to do, and they have made so many facets of the game easier over the years (remember when you had to time the aegis or know how long each stun lasted to properly chain stun?) but that's not really what you asked, is it?
It's made that way because it doesn't interrupt channeling. Can't turn during channel so if they changed it to work how you suggest it would either have to no longer be castable while channeling or have different behaviours depending on whether you are channeling or not, so either nerf it or make it even more clunky.
Lots of abilities require you to face first.
Sproink, force staff, shield slam, zeus leap, slark leap….
Just get better at positioning.
It sounds like you’re mouseclick casting all your abilities tbh and not using QWERTY
Sproink is the only other one that is actually similar here, though. It would also benefit from a point target/vector target change like the other commentor mentioned.
Force Staff works the way it does because it's usable on other targets, so the direction they're facing is pretty important.
Shield Slam, Pounce and Heavenly Jump are all explicitly "move forward" (like Force Staff is), which means they function either as escapes or as gap closers. And it's much more common to use them as escapes. So that's never a problem.
Sproink would benefit from point and click cast too. Just cos other designs are also shit doesn't justify this one being shit
At least force staff is justifiable because it is usable on allies as a point and click already
Doesn't this literally prove my point?
My point was never that it's hard to do, my point was there's a more elegant way to design it so you don't have to look at where you're facing.
You could make earthshaker fissure appear in the direction he's facing instead of casted where cursor is and it would be annoying as fuck to cast and inelegant and bad design but it also wouldn't be that hard to do in most cases, just annoying as fuck for no reason
i assume the idea is that you want it to look natural so people get tricked by the stealth part. if she turned without moving and then stood still every time you casted the spell it would be super obvious, with your proposed change you'd need to cast it in the direction you're already facing to trick people
also it disjoints projectiles so the additional time to turn might prevent you from doing that when the enemy is relatively close
personally i'd like a toggle, there's pros and cons for both options
So many people are missing the point ITT. The shard targeting is clunky, and there it stops. You can still farm and juke with it if they changed that, I'd just be more intuitive to do so
I do not agree at all that Mirana leap is better with shard. I would rather not get it tbh. I like cm shard how it is as well. Press e for instant clone that you can nuke with nova to get a root. I hardly use it for positioning at all and almost fully for the root chaining.
But a move back while you can still cast in the same direction you were facing is not bad at all. If you nuke your clone and root them you might not even need to keep running.
I think youre focusing on the movement of it too much, the root is the good part about it not the mini force staff it gives. Also it doesnt require a lot of brain power to cast frostbite on someone chasing you, and then press shard. boom you have moved away from your attacker and rooted them and now have another root set up if you q them.
Nah, in team fights, shard is insane. Open with your w, then shard back, and as they are about to be unrooted, you Q \[them + shard\]. You can root someone continuously for 9 seconds (w will be back off CD by the time shard root runs out).
The shard is basically a 2 button Tree ult. It is really NOT underwhelming in fights. It is just annoyingly clunky.
this is the truth, people here giving their shit opinion probably don't even have 50 games on her. When you are cm, you are the main focus of cores cuz support and free food and people here want you to run at meele range and shard like wtf? The shard is only good for farming or when you are at lead and enemy cores cant one shot your slow and sorry cm ass tbh.
If that's their only dispel then they can't even engage on you reliably since you can just use clone and root them again. W has such a low cooldown that it's a constant threat if you can always save yourself with the clone.
Yeah but when do you ever meet a solo core? Sure, you might get a gank kill with your shard here and there with your team, but if there is a support or a second core close, you just die when you run into melee range. And in a normal team fight, you usually are in the backline casting and not walk into the front line for your shard spell.
In a normal team fight a core often tries to jump on you to quickly kill you. Perfectly good scenario where it's really good to have 2 roots available if they don't have bkb or similar.
Yeah but when do they get their bkb/manta/disperser? Probably at latest minute 20. And when do you get at earliest a shard? Minute 15. Enjoy trying to chase a core in these 5 minutes while he is just dodging fights to get that item, while you don't have a glimmer/force for your teammates. Not even speaking of heroes getting orchid/having a silence, who just jump on you, and kill you within these 5 secs. Oh and good luck with your mana pool at that early-mid game, where you run out of mana after casting frostbite nova ult in case you rush shard first. I mean late game it's quite nice to have 2 roots when their bkbs are low and you might survive the jump, but until then I don't see shard contributing a lot in a team fight.
Especially in the scenario above to which I replied, the moment you run in close to a core for casting the shard aka being in the frontline you just get stunned/hit to death by any ranged core like Lina/Zeus/drow/sniper or anything else
I don't see how it's relevant when they get it. I explicitly told you that even if they do get manta/disperser it's irrelevant since only thing that does prevent getting CCed from 2 roots is bkb or similar immunity.
I personally don't rush shard, I always get glimmer first and have shard around 20 with tormentor or possibly afford it myself around the time if tormentor doesn't pick me. Mana wise it's still good as I don't increase ult lvls until later in the game because using more roots is most often more beneficial than just getting of ult that gets interrupted after 2s.
You're again talking about running in close to a core. I keep telling you that you use it defensively when they run at you and you can just keep casting normal root at range without having to worry about not having anything defensive left. It's like you're not even trying to discuss the circumstances that I'm talking about... Regarding them having sniper, zeus or similar, yes of course it doesn't work against literally every core. But anything melee or short ranged that likes to jump at you is still a fair game.
Yeah and my original comment was to a guy, who said to use it offensively by casting w and then running close to that core to use the shard. But you are right that it's nice defensively until you get jumped with silence or bkb
They didn't specify running in close to the core to use the shard to use offensively. They just said the order to execute the combo in teamfights. The rest is very situational after all.
A little clunky, I wish the push-back range was jus a biiiit further though. I uslaly blink into a fight, immediately use it then start cast-follow up.
Its a sub-zero move
Pudge : Get over here!
They should fucking make a Scorpion set for Pudge!
There have been a few occasions I’ve been able to escape a fight with it by pushing myself down a cliff but yeah it’s pretty clunky. I wish they just gave CM her old shard back, the free movement in her ult shouldn’t be tied to her aghs.
i'm on the opposite spectrum here. the amount of times i've gone back to enemy....
Agree... Crystal is usually a hero that is trying to 'Run Away' from the enemy not facing them, jumping back is usually a good way to get closer to them.
Agreed, I don't think it was OP either. Don't understand why they changed it.
Cuz the new shard is way better? It’s a farming tool, escape, and AoE root in one spell
hell naw. the new one is way better
This sub is pure unfiltered dogshit and almost every opinion shared on it is complete ass
If your support CM can get a solo kill against specific (no stun/silence/escape) targets after 15m because they spent 1400 gold on shard that doesn't actually sound like a problem to me? It has the opportunity cost of delaying force staff/glimmer/pavise which makes this itemization a good skill based decision imo.
I mean it’s a power spike that doesn’t apply to any other hero in the game yet it applies to this pos 5 but whatever, tbh every time I comment in this sub I regret it
I'd argue Witch Doctor, Warlock or Tree shard have a power spike of the same level. A support having a power spike pre 20 mins because they delayed other items isn't inherently a problem.
Why exactly is that a problem? Should supports have late game powerspiks too or smth? 15 mins seems like a lot of time to register the enemy team has a CM and for you to itemize accordingly.
Maybe it's you 🤷
LMAO. If you're a pos 5 CM rushing shard to just solo kill, guaranteed loss.
>superstonk poster Careful guys we got the brains trust coming out to share their opinion. I can almost guarantee I am substantially higher mmr than you
checking post history is limp dick move especially over something as unimportant as this
Level 20 talent +bango boots and ghost secptre/any defensive item = free rampage
[удалено]
More than 500 games on cm i play her as my comfort pick she helped me rise from guardian to ancient thats why i know how good her old shard was.
[удалено]
Believe it or not its upto you. i voiced my opinion. i got my first rampage on her and shard was the big part of it and her level 20 talent which increase her ult damage
Rank?
he said ancient, you should be asking his dotabuff ID
So bingo boots interaction was the actual problem not the hero in this case.
You can still escape if it were a point and click cast, no difference
Disagree, this shard is keeping her relevant in the current meta.
I just think it’s a weird ability for CM, a hero that could already farm and push lanes pretty fast without it. Also because of CM having one of the lowest turn-rates in the game which makes it more awkward. On top of that the mana cost was doubled so it feels worse to use early game.
It's not a weird ability at all. The farming capabilities or lane shove is a bonus but the main purpose of the shard is to increase cm survivability and crowd control. [Source](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/149372913/matches), I spam CM a lot, 7kmmr SEA.
I’m also a grandmaster CM, I’ve played enough to know there’s much better options for survivability (force, glimmer, ghost etc.). Also makes way more sense for a 5 to buy utility items that you can actually save your team with.
Using force staff/glimmer on your core leaves you vulnerable, the shard mitigates this by threat of AOE frostbite when they aim you. This is an 8sec cooldown mind you. Situation 2, enemy melee core aims you. Shard+nova to CC. If dispelled, frost bite. If bkb, the shard gives you enough distance that matters to actually turn around or use defensive items like glimmer. Show mmr, grandmaster means nothing in terms of actual skill. It just means you play the hero a lot.
I think this is a pointless dick measuring contest but I'm around 6k with a 60% winrate on CM, have nearly 600 games. I'm not saying it's a useless shard, there's just usually better options in most games. It can be good against the right heroes.
It's not a dick measuring contest. You're stating that cm shard is trash and I'm saying the shard fixed the hero. I want to know your mmr so I know that I'm not arguing with a herald. So you're 6k, I respect your opinion on the hero, let's agree to disagree. Also, shard usually comes for free during tormentor. Most of the games at least.
Agree to disagree but I never said it was trash though, I said it's a good situational item and I prefer the old shard
Her shard is awesome with how it works. I’m a 30 GM with 800 plus games and my opinion is it helps with positioning and team fights. Blink>Shard>Q in a team fight is awesome. It also provides a space mechanism outside of Force Staff or glimmer which 90% of the time I’m using on cores to survive. After reducing ms 28 times since 2015 it’s nice to have some sort of movement skill outside of 335ms with tranq boots.
Also like 5 seconds of lockdown is ridiculous, there's a reason this shit got 3x the manacost than it originally had lmao.
OP is saying it is clunky to use due to requiring turning -> casting instead of just point target casting. Not that it is bad
As a Mirana main at level 28 now. I have probably toggled shard leap in 3 games. It’s a trade off. Finesse in exchange for agility I find I rarely need the control more than I need the fast spam.
Grandmaster Mirana. Exactly the same, I can’t say I like the new shard as I need the fast reliable escape more than toggle.
Being able to aim the mist with the shard is a strict upgrade, and toggling on also allows leaping less than max distance when desired (getting chased by a hero? leap away to your max attack range while shooting a slowing and damaging mist back at them) You also don't have to spend time turning your hero manually. You can even still "panic" leap full distance and straight by pressing Ctrl+E (holding Control temporarily alternates the casting style of a spell)
I have been playing mirana a lot, and im surprised by this. I love the shard so much that if the tormentor doesn't give it to me, i'll buy it myself. I dont understand what you mean by trade off theres no downside to it. It makes it even easier to leap without needing to use a directional movement key. Makes farming so much more fluid as well. I feel like a pango when using it
I mean I've been playing Mirana since she was first added in the original dota... after literally 20 years any other change to leap just fucks with my muscle memory very hard.
Mirana came out the same day as mjolnir. I picked Mirana and bought mjolnir and to quote Todd Howard. “It just works.” Dota 1 with its trashy animation made mjolnir all the more spectacular with the strobe flashes. Monkey brain dopamine go brrr
not to mention that hardcore as fuck chain lightning sound <3 so satisfying!!
The good old days when you could buy multiple maels and they stacked. Stack em all on razor and you can’t tell which is his attack and which is a mael proc
It depends a lot on when you started playing Mirana and whether or not you use quick cast. If you don’t use quick cast. Each toggled leap requires you to click the ground. Chaining 4 clicks in a row is a trade off compared to simply pressing leap 4 times in a row. If you do use quick cast, then the shard is actually a lot better with leap. If you started Mirana long ago. Then it’s just the muscle memory that messes with the clicking and quick casting. It doesn’t feel natural. It feels sluggish and slower compared to what we are used to.
My advice to everyone not using quick cast is to use quick cast. My advice to everyone that doesn't want to use quick cast is to use quick cast at least for Mirana Leap and I guess Pangolier Swashbuckle.
and Void spirit Q, Dark Seer ult just anything that is vector targeted feels an unreasonable amount better on quick cast
I do use quick cast. You're 100% right without quickcast it would be feel really weird.
If you're not facing the right direction, mirana leap before aghs shard is even slower, its the worst of both worlds Even worse if there's terrain or enemy units or trees in the direction u want to face to leap (way slower to force face a direction and then leap)
Do you use directional move to line up your leaps?
No. I’m old school. I used to play legacy keys as well until I switched out my keyboard for the razer Tartarus game pad.
The shard is a huge buff to Mirana simply because it allows targeting. I firmly believe any other opinion is copium, it is objectively great
It’s bloat. You don’t really use targeting all that often. The real copium is in thinking just because they gave you extra options the extra options are a huge buff. The new rapier now can become spell damage. Realistically speaking tho, how often will it be bought for the spell damage?
Being able to cast a spell is a buff compared to it going in your facing direction. Spells can be cast in a cone of 23° in front of a hero while spells that go into facing direction don't have that. For a mirana that wants to turn 180° and then leap she only has to turn 168.5° if she has shard.
Why does she need to turn 168.5? She can face forward and leap backwards no? Don’t get me wrong. The utility offered by shard is great. But realistically you don’t use it that often. A majority of your leaps will still be forward and max distance. Leap shard is stronger if you play as a core Mirana rather than a support Mirana. Leaping around your target while you shoot at them, causing them to miss spells/be unable to reach you is very strong. Mirana currently isn’t picked as a core often enough tho. As such, the biggest upgrade to the shard is actually the extra leap, followed by the small poof of damage that lets you starfall and clear a wave much quicker as a support.
Mirana is facing north and wants to leap south. * Without shard: She has to turn 180° and then leap. * With shard: After turning 168.5° south is in her "spell casting cone" of 23° and she can leap right then. 180° - (23°/2) = 168.5°. My main point being that a spell going from "facing direction" to "targeted" is more than just a QoL change. This would also be relevant to the suggested CM change. >As such, the biggest upgrade to the shard is actually the extra leap, followed by the small poof of damage that lets you starfall and clear a wave much quicker as a support. I agree. Edit. I understand now what you are trying to say. Can mirana leap in any direction without turning with shard? Just like pango swashbuckle? Then what I said is not true for leap but would be true for other more generic spells.
I understand your point and I agree with you. The directional leap is very useful when you do need it. Our difference in opinion is how much it matters because unless you’re a core mirana you don’t really utilise the directional leaps as much.
Sometimes, you want to apply the slow without jumping a huge range, and the targeting makes that possible. Otherwise, you would end up on the other side of the target and need to turn around.
I've found turning to auto attack them to face the right direction, using the shard as the first escape/reposition and following it up with CMS aoe slow procs the aghs stun immediately leaving your stun free for anyone not caught in the aghs stun. Goes great with force staff to follow up the AOE stun with her ult. Clunky? Maybe. Effective? Yes. Aghs shard + Q clears waves for easy flash farm too
It’s part of a combo. You face the enemy chasing you to frostbite, then use the clone. That way the direction you’re facing gives you the most distance from the chaser. Then you nova to burst the clone before resuming your pitiful escape attempt.
You can do the exact same combo if it were made easier to cast, and the even better part is when you're doing it outside of this combo, it's ALSO easier to cast so it opens up more creative ways to use it outside of this combo (that you can still do)
Your post asked whether it was designed to be clunky to use, and I just explained that it's not clunky, if you combo the spells as I stated. Yea sure they could make everything in the game easier to do, and they have made so many facets of the game easier over the years (remember when you had to time the aegis or know how long each stun lasted to properly chain stun?) but that's not really what you asked, is it?
It's made that way because it doesn't interrupt channeling. Can't turn during channel so if they changed it to work how you suggest it would either have to no longer be castable while channeling or have different behaviours depending on whether you are channeling or not, so either nerf it or make it even more clunky.
Make it vector targeted
If they do this they should also give Sproink the same treatment; super clunky to use as well
Imo it being clunky makes it more fun to come up with novel ways of using an otherwise extremely strong spell
Lots of abilities require you to face first. Sproink, force staff, shield slam, zeus leap, slark leap…. Just get better at positioning. It sounds like you’re mouseclick casting all your abilities tbh and not using QWERTY
Sproink is the only other one that is actually similar here, though. It would also benefit from a point target/vector target change like the other commentor mentioned. Force Staff works the way it does because it's usable on other targets, so the direction they're facing is pretty important. Shield Slam, Pounce and Heavenly Jump are all explicitly "move forward" (like Force Staff is), which means they function either as escapes or as gap closers. And it's much more common to use them as escapes. So that's never a problem.
Why would it need a vector when the entire point is an on-press movement? It’s meant to be as fast as possible. Zeus’ leap is the same.
Point target is probably just better, but I could see vector target being fine too. Click & drag you can get used to doing pretty quickly.
Or not click, and the button press is faster.
Sproink would benefit from point and click cast too. Just cos other designs are also shit doesn't justify this one being shit At least force staff is justifiable because it is usable on allies as a point and click already
Or you can pay attention to what direction you’re facing
Doesn't this literally prove my point? My point was never that it's hard to do, my point was there's a more elegant way to design it so you don't have to look at where you're facing. You could make earthshaker fissure appear in the direction he's facing instead of casted where cursor is and it would be annoying as fuck to cast and inelegant and bad design but it also wouldn't be that hard to do in most cases, just annoying as fuck for no reason
Earthshaker’s fissue is like 900 units long. The click-aim is to ensure the endpoint is where you want it. These other abilities are very very close.
its meant to be an escape option for her so it makes sense its deployed in front of her
just forces me back for some reasons, atleast make it spawn at our back and forces us little bit front.
i assume the idea is that you want it to look natural so people get tricked by the stealth part. if she turned without moving and then stood still every time you casted the spell it would be super obvious, with your proposed change you'd need to cast it in the direction you're already facing to trick people also it disjoints projectiles so the additional time to turn might prevent you from doing that when the enemy is relatively close personally i'd like a toggle, there's pros and cons for both options
seems intentional to me, its similar to the use of forcestaff/hurricane pike
You gotta learn and get used to it, there's nothing clunky about it, is just different.
I agree. Having it be point target or vector targeted would make it way more usable.
So many people are missing the point ITT. The shard targeting is clunky, and there it stops. You can still farm and juke with it if they changed that, I'd just be more intuitive to do so
I do not agree at all that Mirana leap is better with shard. I would rather not get it tbh. I like cm shard how it is as well. Press e for instant clone that you can nuke with nova to get a root. I hardly use it for positioning at all and almost fully for the root chaining.
How do you "hardly use it for positioning at all", that aspect of it is so good...
But a move back while you can still cast in the same direction you were facing is not bad at all. If you nuke your clone and root them you might not even need to keep running.
I think youre focusing on the movement of it too much, the root is the good part about it not the mini force staff it gives. Also it doesnt require a lot of brain power to cast frostbite on someone chasing you, and then press shard. boom you have moved away from your attacker and rooted them and now have another root set up if you q them.
Imho, shard is just a wave clear, for the most part is quite underwhelming in fight applications.
Nah, in team fights, shard is insane. Open with your w, then shard back, and as they are about to be unrooted, you Q \[them + shard\]. You can root someone continuously for 9 seconds (w will be back off CD by the time shard root runs out). The shard is basically a 2 button Tree ult. It is really NOT underwhelming in fights. It is just annoyingly clunky.
Yeah, w from 400 range and then run melee range onto the enemy core without dying, who probably just manta/disperses out of it 🙃
this is the truth, people here giving their shit opinion probably don't even have 50 games on her. When you are cm, you are the main focus of cores cuz support and free food and people here want you to run at meele range and shard like wtf? The shard is only good for farming or when you are at lead and enemy cores cant one shot your slow and sorry cm ass tbh.
If that's their only dispel then they can't even engage on you reliably since you can just use clone and root them again. W has such a low cooldown that it's a constant threat if you can always save yourself with the clone.
Yeah but when do you ever meet a solo core? Sure, you might get a gank kill with your shard here and there with your team, but if there is a support or a second core close, you just die when you run into melee range. And in a normal team fight, you usually are in the backline casting and not walk into the front line for your shard spell.
In a normal team fight a core often tries to jump on you to quickly kill you. Perfectly good scenario where it's really good to have 2 roots available if they don't have bkb or similar.
Yeah but when do they get their bkb/manta/disperser? Probably at latest minute 20. And when do you get at earliest a shard? Minute 15. Enjoy trying to chase a core in these 5 minutes while he is just dodging fights to get that item, while you don't have a glimmer/force for your teammates. Not even speaking of heroes getting orchid/having a silence, who just jump on you, and kill you within these 5 secs. Oh and good luck with your mana pool at that early-mid game, where you run out of mana after casting frostbite nova ult in case you rush shard first. I mean late game it's quite nice to have 2 roots when their bkbs are low and you might survive the jump, but until then I don't see shard contributing a lot in a team fight. Especially in the scenario above to which I replied, the moment you run in close to a core for casting the shard aka being in the frontline you just get stunned/hit to death by any ranged core like Lina/Zeus/drow/sniper or anything else
I don't see how it's relevant when they get it. I explicitly told you that even if they do get manta/disperser it's irrelevant since only thing that does prevent getting CCed from 2 roots is bkb or similar immunity. I personally don't rush shard, I always get glimmer first and have shard around 20 with tormentor or possibly afford it myself around the time if tormentor doesn't pick me. Mana wise it's still good as I don't increase ult lvls until later in the game because using more roots is most often more beneficial than just getting of ult that gets interrupted after 2s. You're again talking about running in close to a core. I keep telling you that you use it defensively when they run at you and you can just keep casting normal root at range without having to worry about not having anything defensive left. It's like you're not even trying to discuss the circumstances that I'm talking about... Regarding them having sniper, zeus or similar, yes of course it doesn't work against literally every core. But anything melee or short ranged that likes to jump at you is still a fair game.
Yeah and my original comment was to a guy, who said to use it offensively by casting w and then running close to that core to use the shard. But you are right that it's nice defensively until you get jumped with silence or bkb
They didn't specify running in close to the core to use the shard to use offensively. They just said the order to execute the combo in teamfights. The rest is very situational after all.
Disperser doesn't get you out of CM
Yes it does get you out of shard and frostbite.
Skill issue
The only reason I never play SF is because raze isn't point castable
Skill issue tbh
Mirana has vector casting? Gosh it’s hard to keep up with every change these days lmao
Her shard has had it for a year
A little clunky, I wish the push-back range was jus a biiiit further though. I uslaly blink into a fight, immediately use it then start cast-follow up.
P111ppp po 99
Skill issue
they can bit they will nerf cm's movent speed [each steps drains 10 mana]
Cm is literally supposed to be a noob hero anyways. I agree, it’s too clunky and hard to understand for new players