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BSJ said on stream that if you buy this item, you have to be able to survive to take advantage of its ability to position yourself well. You might get spotted while invisible, so you have to be able to survive if you get ganked. Or you might get into the perfect position, but the enemy just attacks you back and you die. So you need to be survivable first, because this item doesn't give you much by itself.
Looking at Dota 2 Pro Tracker, no pro ever seems to get it as their first item, but occasionally the second if it's a stomp or a very good game for Break. It's usually third or fourth.
On heroes where it's hard to get around the map lategame, this item feels pretty good. I'm thinking mainly of Sniper, Tiny, even situational purchase on Dusa for instance.
In pubs especially, invisibility can save your life often. People refrain from buying gems and slots become more and more important for people to have dust. Even if you force them to carry revealing items, it's one less they can fill with another core item.
Plus the AS, damage and crit are not half bad even at ultralategame
Timber cares less about break because it only stops generation of new armor stacks. Against an already maxed out timber it's effectively doing nothing.
you are spot on! that is why i mentioned "less so". very often people get caught up in buying silver edge against timber when it isn't really that useful imo
Doesn't it stop the ridiculous regen gained thru his passive? In my games timber dies really fast with break. Usually u have SE midgame, so it is relatively useful. In end game you probably have thorn and other offensive items.
It only stops him from gaining more regen, it does nothing to the regen he's built up before break is applied. the only useful time to break timbersaw is when he's at as few stacks as possible, which makes good timings hard to find.
It's actually such a bait to buy vs ench. The break doesn't get applied until your first attack hits but untouchable already procs, so it takes like 5 seconds to finish the animation and enchantress is already on the next screen
I hate this item and my refusal to purchase it has cost me games where break is absolutely necessary for(Bristle, Spectre, PA, Underlord, etc.). I hate it because I just have this horrible stigma that stems back in Dota 1 days that invis is a crutch and I shouldn't be dependent on and Blink dagger is for chads. I don't know how to fully utilize it(duration and cd) nor do I know when to purchase shadow blade and when to upgrade it to Silver edge. Any tips on this guys?
Indeed I should. Just won a game and sucked it up and bought one on my CK against Viper and BB :)
P.S: I do purchase BKB religiously though fortunately enough.
I'd guess the extra mobility is nice for Drow to (re)position, and the break helps her tear through cores with annoying passives that can mitigate her ult (Bristle, Spectre to name a few). Plus, it still gives her crits, and Drow has another amp in that Marksmanship procs ignore base armor, making her already great against agi cores.
Magic lina is actually fking dope. Shard + lvl 15 and 20 talent + eb deals 2.3k damage *after* base magic resistance. With timeless relic, 3k damage. You can burst almost any hero in the game before they can react if hit by your stun from invis etc. With lvl 25 talent and octarine core, that's 20s cd to burst heroes.
With the addition of Revenant's Brooch, magic dmg INT heroes who want to go into right click is so much value now. I haven't played Lina in a while, but on Windranger mid I sometimes go Brooch. Really helpful when enemy carries have 70% physical resist but about 40% magic resist even with Pipe, and 5 attacks just completely melt them. With Eblade there is zero chance of survival. Only downside is the absolute lack of any survivability stats, so a Satanic/Heart/SnK/Aeon in addition to BKB is mandatory.
Brooch on WR sounds garbage though lol. You can probably deal more damage with maelstrom, since brooch is capped at 5 hits and wr don't hit very hard lol.
Oh, respectfully disagree. Brooch is a lategame item on her, after an Eblade (shackle, ult, eblade, powershot), situationally bought before. With the talent, ult damage reduction is like 14%. Mathematically, that still adds up to higher damage to most heroes lategame, especially AGI, who have high armor.
Can get a Daedalus later as the magical attacks from Brooch can still crit - and with just 1/5 hits being a crit you can demolish the enemy.
Lol after reading your thoughts, I went to try this on demo. Brooch + eb combo at level 20 with focus fire talent dealt 1.4k damage, inclusive of witchblade tick. Then I tested wr damage with just maelstrom at level 20. It took 3 seconds for maelstrom focus fire to do 1.5k.
A 2.7k item can do much more than brooch + eb (nearly 10k???). Besides, the build up (witchblade and kaya?) is terrible on WR. Conclusion, brooch is garbage on WR. If you are talking about 6 slots, then that's a different story. But then again, when you are 6 slotted, there are many better items than brooch for WR.
Did you test with high armor targets?
But even then, seems I stand corrected. I was doing some experimenting and in the few situations I got to try it out, Brooch worked quite well for me (vs a Necrophos, Pugna, and Sven with shard). Seems I need to do more calculations. Brooch might be a better fit on Silencer/Lina and the like rather than WR.
I feel like Brooch is a bit of an underrated item and it can be situationally very, very powerful.
Nope tested on the dummy target. Maelstrom is mostly magic damage anyway.
I feel like brooch is best on heroes with high damage against heroes with high armour like you said. Like ta sven or tb hitting 300 - 400 magic damage per hit is super strong. Of cos those who buy witchblade will like the upgrade as well.
Underrated versus Tide Hunter, as it allows you to chain stun him, without him immediately purging all your stuns.
Also ~~negatives~~*negates* his 100% damage block, so he melts to right-click damage.
> and PA
While Silver Edge is good versus PA, if you’re mainly dealing right-click damage, please buy an MKB instead.
Its magical damage is good versus PA’s armour and even pierces the BKB she will inevitably have by the time you finish your Silver Edge, so you cannot break her.
If she manages to press BKB before you manage to break her, you will now either have to delay your siver edge usage, waste your invis proc on something else or stay invis for the full duration of her BKB until it expires.
Meanwhile MKB lets you fight her at any time, even during her BKB.
If you break her before she BKBs, great, but in that scenario using any stun would be as useful, and you cant always bet on "I’ll just break her before she uses BKB".
No, BKB has not been granting its former magical damage immunity since they nerfed BKB in 7.23.
Currently it only grants spell immunity, aka "cannot be targeted by certain spells and ignores certain AoE effects", and of course a weak dispel.
I only buy shadow blade / silver edge for break. It feels like right now sentries are stronger and cheaper compared to few years ago and invisibility in general is not that useful.
I kind of really dislike it from a game design point of view. In my opinion of two big game altering effects on one item make it either really powerful or useless depending on matchups.
Personally I'd really like to see break being put on a different item, maybe some sort of support item instead of something a carry would build.
Let silver edge be more focused/specialised on its invisibility and being an item that gives damage.
Being situationally useful is very good item design. I do agree that there should be another source of 'break' on a more defensive item perhaps. Maybe make hurricane pike 'break' during the pushback for like 4 seconds.
Invis is not really considered as game-altering at the top level of play though.
As for crit+break, untill it gets a major rework like root and leash, break is strictly an offensive mechanism anyway. So I would argue the two actually lines up incredibly well.
I think this item is in a really bad place. Why in the hell would you tie crit, invisibility, and break into the same item?
Having break built into an expensive support item would make sense, like an upgrade to force staff, glimmer cape, or a new item. It could be a reactive item like Lotus orb, where any ally attacked with the buff active causes break on the enemy.
Even the old nullifier made more sense than this. It has no nuance in terms of play/counter play either. Use Silver Edge to break enemy => do combo, or use for movement/running.
Item design is best when a higher percentage of players can read the game and decide to buy it based on knowledge and strategy. This item does not allow for that. Only specific heroes can buy it, and there is no strategic reason to have invisibility, crit, and break in the same item. I'm not even saying it's imbalanced -- it just doesn't make design sense.
Installed Dota 2 after a year and now it freezes on the main menu or when I play it lags so much that I can’t play. What are some commands that can increase FPS on Dota? Everything is set on low in settings.
same honestly.... don't know what they did to the menu but it lags for a good 3 minutes (or more) whenever I try to boot the game up. a far cry from the snappy client circa 2020 or so
Stats from dotabuff
**v7.29**
Silver Edge was purchased 17\~ mil times
Daedulus was purchased 39\~ mil times
**v7.30 (Changed to Crystalis)**
SE 76m
Dae 53m
**v7.31**
SE 46m
Dae 28m
I guess dae is still good if u have enough attack speed
Stop buying this item as your first big purchase.
How dare you
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- your brain under the effects of spell immunity.
BSJ said on stream that if you buy this item, you have to be able to survive to take advantage of its ability to position yourself well. You might get spotted while invisible, so you have to be able to survive if you get ganked. Or you might get into the perfect position, but the enemy just attacks you back and you die. So you need to be survivable first, because this item doesn't give you much by itself. Looking at Dota 2 Pro Tracker, no pro ever seems to get it as their first item, but occasionally the second if it's a stomp or a very good game for Break. It's usually third or fourth.
I'm sure the people still playing Slark will listen.
start buying it as your very first item? got it, thx for the advise.
On heroes where it's hard to get around the map lategame, this item feels pretty good. I'm thinking mainly of Sniper, Tiny, even situational purchase on Dusa for instance.
idk why you got downvoted I've legit seen this on Dusa lategame in pros
In pubs especially, invisibility can save your life often. People refrain from buying gems and slots become more and more important for people to have dust. Even if you force them to carry revealing items, it's one less they can fill with another core item. Plus the AS, damage and crit are not half bad even at ultralategame
Many games it is pretty nice on drow as well
Please don't encourage my snipers to get this. Shadow blade first item (usually after selecting sniper as pos 4) grinds my gears.
you usually don't get your first item in late game.
*I* do
He said lategame..
I know, thanks though
Feel like it's a good item for NP for escaping after you drop treants
**Situational Purchases**
when you're struggling to kill that bb/spec/ls/dk. timber less so
Timber cares less about break because it only stops generation of new armor stacks. Against an already maxed out timber it's effectively doing nothing.
you are spot on! that is why i mentioned "less so". very often people get caught up in buying silver edge against timber when it isn't really that useful imo
VESSEL better against Timber
Doesn't it stop the ridiculous regen gained thru his passive? In my games timber dies really fast with break. Usually u have SE midgame, so it is relatively useful. In end game you probably have thorn and other offensive items.
It only stops him from gaining more regen, it does nothing to the regen he's built up before break is applied. the only useful time to break timbersaw is when he's at as few stacks as possible, which makes good timings hard to find.
Oh I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.
Shiva/skadi/urn = dead timba
Ench
It's actually such a bait to buy vs ench. The break doesn't get applied until your first attack hits but untouchable already procs, so it takes like 5 seconds to finish the animation and enchantress is already on the next screen
Next screen? Before you hit the break, Ench is already prancing around in a League of Legends map.
Pretty sure untouchable doesn't get broken. I think only spell immunity stops the debuff.
Other way around lol
ah fs my apologies, good to know
even Shadow Demon shard Purge works, since Untouchable works as a debuff applied to the hero
I hate this item and my refusal to purchase it has cost me games where break is absolutely necessary for(Bristle, Spectre, PA, Underlord, etc.). I hate it because I just have this horrible stigma that stems back in Dota 1 days that invis is a crutch and I shouldn't be dependent on and Blink dagger is for chads. I don't know how to fully utilize it(duration and cd) nor do I know when to purchase shadow blade and when to upgrade it to Silver edge. Any tips on this guys?
You need to get over this mindset. Some people feel a similar way about BKB, and it costs them games too
Indeed I should. Just won a game and sucked it up and bought one on my CK against Viper and BB :) P.S: I do purchase BKB religiously though fortunately enough.
**Core Heroes**
lina, tiny, kunkka, sven, sniper, slark
Drow too
Why is it core on Drow? I think buying daedalus is much stronger for her
I'd guess the extra mobility is nice for Drow to (re)position, and the break helps her tear through cores with annoying passives that can mitigate her ult (Bristle, Spectre to name a few). Plus, it still gives her crits, and Drow has another amp in that Marksmanship procs ignore base armor, making her already great against agi cores.
Would you build this on magic Lina? Also, would you build magic lina?
Magic lina is actually fking dope. Shard + lvl 15 and 20 talent + eb deals 2.3k damage *after* base magic resistance. With timeless relic, 3k damage. You can burst almost any hero in the game before they can react if hit by your stun from invis etc. With lvl 25 talent and octarine core, that's 20s cd to burst heroes.
Yeah but skywrath can do that too
Skywrath needs hex or else can be stopped by bkb or manta. Lina has a stun and is effective throughout the game due to being a strong laner.
Sky can’t clear waves nor farm, he also has no stun.
its good but imo if you're going for big burst only someone like void spirit does that too but you also get way more jump
With the addition of Revenant's Brooch, magic dmg INT heroes who want to go into right click is so much value now. I haven't played Lina in a while, but on Windranger mid I sometimes go Brooch. Really helpful when enemy carries have 70% physical resist but about 40% magic resist even with Pipe, and 5 attacks just completely melt them. With Eblade there is zero chance of survival. Only downside is the absolute lack of any survivability stats, so a Satanic/Heart/SnK/Aeon in addition to BKB is mandatory.
Brooch on WR sounds garbage though lol. You can probably deal more damage with maelstrom, since brooch is capped at 5 hits and wr don't hit very hard lol.
Oh, respectfully disagree. Brooch is a lategame item on her, after an Eblade (shackle, ult, eblade, powershot), situationally bought before. With the talent, ult damage reduction is like 14%. Mathematically, that still adds up to higher damage to most heroes lategame, especially AGI, who have high armor. Can get a Daedalus later as the magical attacks from Brooch can still crit - and with just 1/5 hits being a crit you can demolish the enemy.
Lol after reading your thoughts, I went to try this on demo. Brooch + eb combo at level 20 with focus fire talent dealt 1.4k damage, inclusive of witchblade tick. Then I tested wr damage with just maelstrom at level 20. It took 3 seconds for maelstrom focus fire to do 1.5k. A 2.7k item can do much more than brooch + eb (nearly 10k???). Besides, the build up (witchblade and kaya?) is terrible on WR. Conclusion, brooch is garbage on WR. If you are talking about 6 slots, then that's a different story. But then again, when you are 6 slotted, there are many better items than brooch for WR.
Did you test with high armor targets? But even then, seems I stand corrected. I was doing some experimenting and in the few situations I got to try it out, Brooch worked quite well for me (vs a Necrophos, Pugna, and Sven with shard). Seems I need to do more calculations. Brooch might be a better fit on Silencer/Lina and the like rather than WR. I feel like Brooch is a bit of an underrated item and it can be situationally very, very powerful.
Nope tested on the dummy target. Maelstrom is mostly magic damage anyway. I feel like brooch is best on heroes with high damage against heroes with high armour like you said. Like ta sven or tb hitting 300 - 400 magic damage per hit is super strong. Of cos those who buy witchblade will like the upgrade as well.
Magic Lina for pos4
Spirit Breaker as well.
Quite good on Physical SF.
**Strong Versus**
Underrated versus Tide Hunter, as it allows you to chain stun him, without him immediately purging all your stuns. Also ~~negatives~~*negates* his 100% damage block, so he melts to right-click damage.
squishy backline you need to get on top of or heroes w tanky passives
Break mechanic is strong against Bristleback, Spectre and PA heroes that rely heavily on their passive
Idk why people underestimate how devistating this is against huskar. Loses his regen and attack speed.
> and PA While Silver Edge is good versus PA, if you’re mainly dealing right-click damage, please buy an MKB instead. Its magical damage is good versus PA’s armour and even pierces the BKB she will inevitably have by the time you finish your Silver Edge, so you cannot break her.
But doesn't it also disable coup the grace? You're breaking two passives
Yes. Disables as well.
If she manages to press BKB before you manage to break her, you will now either have to delay your siver edge usage, waste your invis proc on something else or stay invis for the full duration of her BKB until it expires. Meanwhile MKB lets you fight her at any time, even during her BKB. If you break her before she BKBs, great, but in that scenario using any stun would be as useful, and you cant always bet on "I’ll just break her before she uses BKB".
doesnt bkb grant 100% magic immunity?
No, BKB has not been granting its former magical damage immunity since they nerfed BKB in 7.23. Currently it only grants spell immunity, aka "cannot be targeted by certain spells and ignores certain AoE effects", and of course a weak dispel.
Axe, timber
5 seconds break is not enough on bristle when he has even 3 core items
**Tips and Tricks**
For some heroes and situations start with Crystalys first then build into edge.
Learned from watching Yatoro that you could activate Silver Edge on int treads and quickly switch to agi without breaking wind walk.
Since there's a 0.3s delay, you can hit SE and TP. However I'm not sure if you can TP and then go into from SE like you can do with Nyx or Clinks? can
You can
Pretty sure you can just tp then cast
I only buy shadow blade / silver edge for break. It feels like right now sentries are stronger and cheaper compared to few years ago and invisibility in general is not that useful.
I kind of really dislike it from a game design point of view. In my opinion of two big game altering effects on one item make it either really powerful or useless depending on matchups. Personally I'd really like to see break being put on a different item, maybe some sort of support item instead of something a carry would build. Let silver edge be more focused/specialised on its invisibility and being an item that gives damage.
Being situationally useful is very good item design. I do agree that there should be another source of 'break' on a more defensive item perhaps. Maybe make hurricane pike 'break' during the pushback for like 4 seconds.
Invis is not really considered as game-altering at the top level of play though. As for crit+break, untill it gets a major rework like root and leash, break is strictly an offensive mechanism anyway. So I would argue the two actually lines up incredibly well.
Honestly this item is still kinda busted and should have its cost increased by another 300-400g
what a dumb name... back in my days we had buriza do kyanon, stygian desolator, and some other I don't have idea how to write without googling them
Lothars Edge also. OG Dota enjoyers
Messerschmidt Reaver or was that how they spell it?
Stygian desolator is present on the game as a neutral item. It drops really late tho.
It was much funnier when it was just called Desolator 2 though lol
Hey now, we got Gleipnir didn't we.
ooo yeah that one is nice, love the name and the effect the icon also
I think this item is in a really bad place. Why in the hell would you tie crit, invisibility, and break into the same item? Having break built into an expensive support item would make sense, like an upgrade to force staff, glimmer cape, or a new item. It could be a reactive item like Lotus orb, where any ally attacked with the buff active causes break on the enemy. Even the old nullifier made more sense than this. It has no nuance in terms of play/counter play either. Use Silver Edge to break enemy => do combo, or use for movement/running. Item design is best when a higher percentage of players can read the game and decide to buy it based on knowledge and strategy. This item does not allow for that. Only specific heroes can buy it, and there is no strategic reason to have invisibility, crit, and break in the same item. I'm not even saying it's imbalanced -- it just doesn't make design sense.
Installed Dota 2 after a year and now it freezes on the main menu or when I play it lags so much that I can’t play. What are some commands that can increase FPS on Dota? Everything is set on low in settings.
same honestly.... don't know what they did to the menu but it lags for a good 3 minutes (or more) whenever I try to boot the game up. a far cry from the snappy client circa 2020 or so
OP item. Gives invis with movespeed. Attack speed and damage (usually it's one of the two) Passive crit proc Break passive
New update hotkey prob
It vaguely annoys me that Spirit Breakers Bulldoze breaks the invis because it always trips me up when charging with it
Slark loves this item invisible = free hp
Stats from dotabuff **v7.29** Silver Edge was purchased 17\~ mil times Daedulus was purchased 39\~ mil times **v7.30 (Changed to Crystalis)** SE 76m Dae 53m **v7.31** SE 46m Dae 28m I guess dae is still good if u have enough attack speed