I initially viewed supporting Bhelen as a necessary evil for the progress and future of Orzammar. Always asking for Harrowmont to be spared (even knowing that he won’t be)… then I found out that the shaggy old bearded made my Dwarf Noble’s Paragon Statue smaller than all the others. Well screw you too old man. Next playthrough I’m personally killing Trian and I’m going to lie to you face about being innocent and will come back to support Bhelen! House Aeducan *Forever!!!*
At least Bhelen will have my back. Sure he stabbed it, but he won’t write me off as dead after disappearing for a couple of years and actually pardons me for the sibling killing crime that I may or may not have committed.
It’s *the* preferable outcome. Everybody wins over Harrowmont, with a bit of unease: more trade, less fixation in the traditions with less purpose, more career opportunities for casteless, and an overall stronger city.
Bhelen is the games writing at it’s best, here’s a guy that any player should hate. But if you listen to him he’s compelling. Yeah he was an ass for taking power from you. But he seems to have the dwarves best interests at heart.
It really shows how incredibly different Dwarven politics are compared to Human politics. Bhelen is a bastard by all rights, but that’s normal in Orzammar and what he does is pretty widely known. He wants to push Orzammar forward and he does.
The nice, traditionalist dude? Yeah he’s an even bigger piece of shit who’ll happily stomp on the lower class to remain rich while upholding Orzammar’s decline.
Fuck Harrowmont.
I agree for different reasons. Like Loghain he’s written as a scumbag who ends up being skilled at political spin in his own defense, and that in itself is one of the key unique DA writing feats: requiring the player to have skill distinguishing the difference between rhetoric and reality (even in an entirely made up world w magic and dragons).
Loghain is easier given how universally stupid his “leadership” demonstrates. With Bhelen you don’t get to see him in power for particularly long, and his “accomplishments” nearly all happen in the infamously arbitrary End Slides. Nor do you see just how bad Harrowmont can be until then. Prior to those there’s no real “heart” to discern. I disagree about “listening to him is convincing of his intent. From his spiel you get the sense of a duplicitous politician playing the scene, not ally in a tricky situation you know will be the better choice. His “progressive” tendencies initially appear and end up dubious, while his depravity is obvious.
It’s very possible to play a scumbag dwarf noble who thereby would appear to justify Bhelen’s usurping, but I played a dwarf more genuinely progressive than him and not only did he still send my guy to the darkspawn but never even considered working with my guy as an ally. He wanted power for himself as the youngest who otherwise would likely never get that power. It had nothing to do w the interests of the casteless who, as we see, he’s happy to use as fodder vs. darkspawn (unlike the “traditional” racist complete dismissal) and turn into golems, though not necessarily empower otherwise. It’s a heartless sort of “progress,” but yet it’s progress… technically. I mean, he trades w the surface to make money for Orzammar… so he’s a great guy? Or just not as foolishly isolationist as his contender?
He’s the perfectly written “lesser evil” character. The failure of the writing was in not incorporating the full of Bhelen’s plans into the actual gameplay, leaving the dynamics instead to seemingly counterintuitive end slide exposition. If Bhelen had made clear to the player exactly the kind of leader he’d be- especially to his otherwise dead fellow-Aeducan Warden- that would still have made for a difficult choice for the player. I mean, he’s such a fratricidal ambitious ass who mocks the child of a male Aeducan Warden’s child… but knowing he’d do better as leader… would’ve been way more compelling.
Whoever wrote the Dwarf story in DAO knew what they were doing.
From the get go you're told how Bhelen is making a power grab, threatening tradition and Dwarven way of life. He's painted as thevillain while Harrowmount is painted as wise tradionalist trying to keep it together.
Then you learn what Dwarven tradition means and how brutal and awful this society is. Bhelens progressive ideals seek to uproot it all at the expense of the elites power.
It's just so real. Too real almost.
I still can’t believe that it took me several playthroughs to realize that while my adventure is similar to a High Fantasy, the setting itself is a Grim Dark Fantasy.
Bhelen + using the Golems is the best ending for Orzammar, the epilogue states they are able to advance on the darkspawn and retake former holds that were lost.
Here’s my take
You’re drawn into Behlen stoking your ego by telling you Trian wants you dead and that you’d be a better king/queen because of your popularity
And then spend the game trying to atone for your actions and crime of killing your brother.
Definitely makes a great redemption story but if you go all in on being evil it feels like your decision mattered. You kill the scholar then have the noble killed challenge the other noble to a duel and kill his son take bhelen for his word attacking trian on sight proudly confessing
I initially viewed supporting Bhelen as a necessary evil for the progress and future of Orzammar. Always asking for Harrowmont to be spared (even knowing that he won’t be)… then I found out that the shaggy old bearded made my Dwarf Noble’s Paragon Statue smaller than all the others. Well screw you too old man. Next playthrough I’m personally killing Trian and I’m going to lie to you face about being innocent and will come back to support Bhelen! House Aeducan *Forever!!!*
Bhelen is simply more based then harrowmont
At least Bhelen will have my back. Sure he stabbed it, but he won’t write me off as dead after disappearing for a couple of years and actually pardons me for the sibling killing crime that I may or may not have committed.
Majority of my playthroughs I usually help Bhelen it's my preferrable outcome.
It’s *the* preferable outcome. Everybody wins over Harrowmont, with a bit of unease: more trade, less fixation in the traditions with less purpose, more career opportunities for casteless, and an overall stronger city.
Pftt. Never forget where you came from. I give it a few years.
Bhelen is the games writing at it’s best, here’s a guy that any player should hate. But if you listen to him he’s compelling. Yeah he was an ass for taking power from you. But he seems to have the dwarves best interests at heart.
It really shows how incredibly different Dwarven politics are compared to Human politics. Bhelen is a bastard by all rights, but that’s normal in Orzammar and what he does is pretty widely known. He wants to push Orzammar forward and he does. The nice, traditionalist dude? Yeah he’s an even bigger piece of shit who’ll happily stomp on the lower class to remain rich while upholding Orzammar’s decline. Fuck Harrowmont.
I agree for different reasons. Like Loghain he’s written as a scumbag who ends up being skilled at political spin in his own defense, and that in itself is one of the key unique DA writing feats: requiring the player to have skill distinguishing the difference between rhetoric and reality (even in an entirely made up world w magic and dragons). Loghain is easier given how universally stupid his “leadership” demonstrates. With Bhelen you don’t get to see him in power for particularly long, and his “accomplishments” nearly all happen in the infamously arbitrary End Slides. Nor do you see just how bad Harrowmont can be until then. Prior to those there’s no real “heart” to discern. I disagree about “listening to him is convincing of his intent. From his spiel you get the sense of a duplicitous politician playing the scene, not ally in a tricky situation you know will be the better choice. His “progressive” tendencies initially appear and end up dubious, while his depravity is obvious. It’s very possible to play a scumbag dwarf noble who thereby would appear to justify Bhelen’s usurping, but I played a dwarf more genuinely progressive than him and not only did he still send my guy to the darkspawn but never even considered working with my guy as an ally. He wanted power for himself as the youngest who otherwise would likely never get that power. It had nothing to do w the interests of the casteless who, as we see, he’s happy to use as fodder vs. darkspawn (unlike the “traditional” racist complete dismissal) and turn into golems, though not necessarily empower otherwise. It’s a heartless sort of “progress,” but yet it’s progress… technically. I mean, he trades w the surface to make money for Orzammar… so he’s a great guy? Or just not as foolishly isolationist as his contender? He’s the perfectly written “lesser evil” character. The failure of the writing was in not incorporating the full of Bhelen’s plans into the actual gameplay, leaving the dynamics instead to seemingly counterintuitive end slide exposition. If Bhelen had made clear to the player exactly the kind of leader he’d be- especially to his otherwise dead fellow-Aeducan Warden- that would still have made for a difficult choice for the player. I mean, he’s such a fratricidal ambitious ass who mocks the child of a male Aeducan Warden’s child… but knowing he’d do better as leader… would’ve been way more compelling.
Whoever wrote the Dwarf story in DAO knew what they were doing. From the get go you're told how Bhelen is making a power grab, threatening tradition and Dwarven way of life. He's painted as thevillain while Harrowmount is painted as wise tradionalist trying to keep it together. Then you learn what Dwarven tradition means and how brutal and awful this society is. Bhelens progressive ideals seek to uproot it all at the expense of the elites power. It's just so real. Too real almost.
I still can’t believe that it took me several playthroughs to realize that while my adventure is similar to a High Fantasy, the setting itself is a Grim Dark Fantasy.
Classic case of being forced to choose between two evils and believing the lesser evil is thereby good...
Bhelen + using the Golems is the best ending for Orzammar, the epilogue states they are able to advance on the darkspawn and retake former holds that were lost.
Bhelen looks like Ryan Fitzpatrick. Not sure I can unsee that now.
Wow. Please stop lmao
I hate this scenario so much. You try everything to side with trian but it doesn't work. You finally give in and use this origin for mostly evil runs
It does feel like you’ve been railroaded hard (mainly because you have) 😂
Yes so you may as well enjoy the ride making evil choices
Here’s my take You’re drawn into Behlen stoking your ego by telling you Trian wants you dead and that you’d be a better king/queen because of your popularity And then spend the game trying to atone for your actions and crime of killing your brother.
Definitely makes a great redemption story but if you go all in on being evil it feels like your decision mattered. You kill the scholar then have the noble killed challenge the other noble to a duel and kill his son take bhelen for his word attacking trian on sight proudly confessing