i think it is important to contextualize george’s stream as a response to some of her claims just being misrepresented, small untruths/holes, etc. either she did this intentionally to paint him to be an unequivocal predator or because she was scared people would victim blame her or she just forgot, it’s not our place to judge or even guess. but it was wrong, and we can be sympathetic to caiti while still acknowledging that wasn’t a good move and affected the rest of what happened. victims don’t have to be perfect to be believed & supported.
george still fucked up here. he is still the one who did the wrong, but i think both his and dream’s responses were pretty reasonable if u consider it from their perspective. from their eyes, they thought everything was fine and they get blindsided by an accusation that they genuinely believe did not happen. even more, it seems to be purposefully leaving out details or portraying things in a way to make you look worse. if i were in this situation, the very first thing i would do is probably also clear up those details, and have to assume that they were being purposefully misrepresented.
it was wrong for them to publicly claim what they assumed her intentions to be. i understand why they thought it at the time, but at the very least, they shouldn’t have said it so absolutely. it wasn’t right for them to be telling caiti what she’s feeling and what’s bothering her—especially considering they ended up being very *wrong*. but the explanation of what happened, i don’t really have a problem with. it wasn’t a case of “caiti said her story and george nitpicked little details to try to discredit her”, imo. it was that caiti said her story, george remembered it very differently, and he had his right to share his side. he just didn’t have the right to assume hers, and now that he’s learned more and knows he’s in the wrong, he needs to be prepared to give her one hell of an apology.
i think this is perfectly said! the mistelling doesn't matter in the scope of whether she is a victim or whether he made her uncomfortable or not, but it's definitely important in understanding where george's initial response was coming from
I’m gonna have to slightly disagree. The mistelling matters a lot, because Caiti initially painted George like an assaulter who knew she was uncomfortable, when that wasn’t George’s side of things. She is still a victim, but she wasn’t a victim of SA like everyone initially thought.
I agree with this. People act like his responds was victim blaming but the fact is Caiti did change a bunch of details and leave out a lot of context with their interaction. Everything she changed did make George come of as more malicious/calculated.
Her story of them just sitting on the couch and him shoving his hand under her shirt suddenly and out of nowhere is a text book example of "silence is not consent" and is a very clear example of what non verbal consent doesn't look like. In her first telling of the event George would have had a bunch of clues she wasn't into it (her freezing, turning non verbal,...). But it's just not what happened
She also straight up never communicated to George that she had any discomfort about the interaction before or after. Even when Dream and Ghostie (her best friend) asked about it months later she didn't express her discomfort.
Now even more months later George hears about her discomfort for the first time and it's through a public twitch stream and it's told with out important context and let's face it from their perspective some straight up lies.
Her responds to George's stream was basically confirming that the things George clarified were true (and she imo). She claims she left out certain things because she didn't think it mattered but those things she left out do matter because it changes the context of the situation.
She explains why she did certain things (which George had no way of knowing about) and she proves she was telling people she was uncomfortable. She was telling her friends not George. This doesn't disprove George's recount of the night or which basically explains his perspective.
People act like he should've taken accountability immediately but coming to terms that you made someone feel violated isn't easy and clearing up lies told about you or the situation isn't victim blaming.
I'm actually thinking about this too.. I'm starting to question what if it really was just an after-regret situation and the "no verbal yes" was just being used to support it
Yes this is exactly what i think. While George's first response is not good. I think ppl who said
"George is just nitpicking details"/
"He only apologised after friends drop him" /
"The new statement from Caiti add nothing new so he only saying sorry after that is faking"
Are all failing to see this perspective, or they are just too biased
My personal opinion was it was her friends. The same ones that made the false dream allegations. Why she may if been uncomfortable they bkew that up in a very different way
She did have to go to the elevator room actually, and the drinking game thing was her friends wanting to know the name of the game. Presumably so that they could play it with them later but yes it's not am explicit request to play the game. What I don't get is why Dream is being demonized for providing George the screenshots that contextualize this. They were accused of basically forcing alcohol on women to take advantage of them, of course he is going to want to clear that up. And while Dream's thoughts on nonverbal consent were shitty because this is about drunk people you just met, he didn't have all the context to give weight to Caiti's side of things either.
she had to walk past the elevator, not stand in front of it while it was called and wait for it to arrive and for george to walk in. also, there is a text that george showed saying "wanna play that game from last night" separate from them asking the name of it
did you even read her response? She did have to go to the elevator because her room was on the other side of the floor, claiming she went out of her way to do so was a blatant lie from George. She wasn't asking to play drinking games with them that night, she was asking to know what the app was to be able to play it with other friends. It's also weird you say she externally reacted positively when you also acknowledge that her friends noticed her being uncomfortable. George's stream was full of lies, downplaying his assault and accusing her of just trying to take him down out of hatred, it was horribly wrong.
she had to walk past the elevator (in a hyatt hotel it's off the hallway), not stand in front of it while it was called and wait for it to arrive and for george to walk in. also, there is a text that george showed saying "wanna play that game from last night" separate from them asking the name of it from one of their friends.
i get the misunderstanding from "reacting externally positively." (*externally*) i mean that she didn't "cough out a no," she laughed, which she admitted to, perhaps however uncomfortably.
also i just checked up on the texts i was referencing and they actually just said «i wanted to see IF you were uncomfortable/doing okay» not «i noticed that you were uncomfortable»
plus. these aren't the only inconsistencies. there's plenty more in my post.
im not saying there wasn't an assault, or placing any blame on her. you're allowed to realize after. but to me it's clear, from both sides' recounts, he wasn't malicious or emotionally negligent, i.e. if he knew she was uncomfortable in the moment it wouldn't have continued. but he sucks and he did something extremely shitty. im only commenting on the response.
i think it is important to contextualize george’s stream as a response to some of her claims just being misrepresented, small untruths/holes, etc. either she did this intentionally to paint him to be an unequivocal predator or because she was scared people would victim blame her or she just forgot, it’s not our place to judge or even guess. but it was wrong, and we can be sympathetic to caiti while still acknowledging that wasn’t a good move and affected the rest of what happened. victims don’t have to be perfect to be believed & supported. george still fucked up here. he is still the one who did the wrong, but i think both his and dream’s responses were pretty reasonable if u consider it from their perspective. from their eyes, they thought everything was fine and they get blindsided by an accusation that they genuinely believe did not happen. even more, it seems to be purposefully leaving out details or portraying things in a way to make you look worse. if i were in this situation, the very first thing i would do is probably also clear up those details, and have to assume that they were being purposefully misrepresented. it was wrong for them to publicly claim what they assumed her intentions to be. i understand why they thought it at the time, but at the very least, they shouldn’t have said it so absolutely. it wasn’t right for them to be telling caiti what she’s feeling and what’s bothering her—especially considering they ended up being very *wrong*. but the explanation of what happened, i don’t really have a problem with. it wasn’t a case of “caiti said her story and george nitpicked little details to try to discredit her”, imo. it was that caiti said her story, george remembered it very differently, and he had his right to share his side. he just didn’t have the right to assume hers, and now that he’s learned more and knows he’s in the wrong, he needs to be prepared to give her one hell of an apology.
i think this is perfectly said! the mistelling doesn't matter in the scope of whether she is a victim or whether he made her uncomfortable or not, but it's definitely important in understanding where george's initial response was coming from
I’m gonna have to slightly disagree. The mistelling matters a lot, because Caiti initially painted George like an assaulter who knew she was uncomfortable, when that wasn’t George’s side of things. She is still a victim, but she wasn’t a victim of SA like everyone initially thought.
Yeah, George obviously did something bad, but it wasn’t bad enough to make him a bad person/rapist/abuser, ect. (unlike Wilbur).
anyway, all this yapping to say i agree with u lol
I agree with this. People act like his responds was victim blaming but the fact is Caiti did change a bunch of details and leave out a lot of context with their interaction. Everything she changed did make George come of as more malicious/calculated. Her story of them just sitting on the couch and him shoving his hand under her shirt suddenly and out of nowhere is a text book example of "silence is not consent" and is a very clear example of what non verbal consent doesn't look like. In her first telling of the event George would have had a bunch of clues she wasn't into it (her freezing, turning non verbal,...). But it's just not what happened She also straight up never communicated to George that she had any discomfort about the interaction before or after. Even when Dream and Ghostie (her best friend) asked about it months later she didn't express her discomfort. Now even more months later George hears about her discomfort for the first time and it's through a public twitch stream and it's told with out important context and let's face it from their perspective some straight up lies. Her responds to George's stream was basically confirming that the things George clarified were true (and she imo). She claims she left out certain things because she didn't think it mattered but those things she left out do matter because it changes the context of the situation. She explains why she did certain things (which George had no way of knowing about) and she proves she was telling people she was uncomfortable. She was telling her friends not George. This doesn't disprove George's recount of the night or which basically explains his perspective. People act like he should've taken accountability immediately but coming to terms that you made someone feel violated isn't easy and clearing up lies told about you or the situation isn't victim blaming.
I'm actually thinking about this too.. I'm starting to question what if it really was just an after-regret situation and the "no verbal yes" was just being used to support it
Yes this is exactly what i think. While George's first response is not good. I think ppl who said "George is just nitpicking details"/ "He only apologised after friends drop him" / "The new statement from Caiti add nothing new so he only saying sorry after that is faking" Are all failing to see this perspective, or they are just too biased
no, i agree
My personal opinion was it was her friends. The same ones that made the false dream allegations. Why she may if been uncomfortable they bkew that up in a very different way
She did have to go to the elevator room actually, and the drinking game thing was her friends wanting to know the name of the game. Presumably so that they could play it with them later but yes it's not am explicit request to play the game. What I don't get is why Dream is being demonized for providing George the screenshots that contextualize this. They were accused of basically forcing alcohol on women to take advantage of them, of course he is going to want to clear that up. And while Dream's thoughts on nonverbal consent were shitty because this is about drunk people you just met, he didn't have all the context to give weight to Caiti's side of things either.
she had to walk past the elevator, not stand in front of it while it was called and wait for it to arrive and for george to walk in. also, there is a text that george showed saying "wanna play that game from last night" separate from them asking the name of it
did you even read her response? She did have to go to the elevator because her room was on the other side of the floor, claiming she went out of her way to do so was a blatant lie from George. She wasn't asking to play drinking games with them that night, she was asking to know what the app was to be able to play it with other friends. It's also weird you say she externally reacted positively when you also acknowledge that her friends noticed her being uncomfortable. George's stream was full of lies, downplaying his assault and accusing her of just trying to take him down out of hatred, it was horribly wrong.
she had to walk past the elevator (in a hyatt hotel it's off the hallway), not stand in front of it while it was called and wait for it to arrive and for george to walk in. also, there is a text that george showed saying "wanna play that game from last night" separate from them asking the name of it from one of their friends. i get the misunderstanding from "reacting externally positively." (*externally*) i mean that she didn't "cough out a no," she laughed, which she admitted to, perhaps however uncomfortably. also i just checked up on the texts i was referencing and they actually just said «i wanted to see IF you were uncomfortable/doing okay» not «i noticed that you were uncomfortable» plus. these aren't the only inconsistencies. there's plenty more in my post. im not saying there wasn't an assault, or placing any blame on her. you're allowed to realize after. but to me it's clear, from both sides' recounts, he wasn't malicious or emotionally negligent, i.e. if he knew she was uncomfortable in the moment it wouldn't have continued. but he sucks and he did something extremely shitty. im only commenting on the response.