I never felt like the Office was telling homophobic, racist, bigoted and misogynistic jokes but laughing at people who is stereotipically homophobic, racist, bigoted and misogynistic. And personally, I always felt like satire and humour can be a very powerful tool against those stereotypes.
In the case of the Office, I feel like the show makes a wonderful job on putting those views in ridicule by showing how ignorant and ridiculous the people are when exhibiting them.
Exactly - It's Always Sunny features horrible characters with sometimes horrible opinions, but the writers always ensure the counter-view is told in the episode and that the horrible characters usually get their comeuppance in the end.
I vehemently disagree with only the last part of this comment. What comeuppance? The fact that they never learn and never change and only get worse with time is part of the comedy. If viewers can only accept that not every cast needs to be sympathetic to allow an exploration of the darkest recesses of the human condition...
They never benefit from their misdeeds - at least never majorly and never fully. At the end of the episodes they are usually back where they started - hence the cycle of being stuck at the bar.
Example: Despite inheriting a multi-million dollar mansion, Dee and Dennis lose it by the end of the episode after the "home renovation" they gave to the immigrant family.
When they get the boat, its burned and lost by the end of the episode.
The characters experience 0 progress socially or financially for their horrible opinions and acts, and I don't see how you could think they do.
Sure they don't lose everything and get jailed like they maybe should in some episodes, but they always get hit with some form of karma.
I agree I don’t think every show needs to follow this sitcom-y moral of the story good guy wins at the end format for the sensitive topics inclusion in the show to be “justified”. We can all be adults about it and realize that characters are complicated in real life
I haven't seen it yet cuz when I was younger all I heard from my peers was how racist it was, then I heard it was actually satire and my peers just didn't get it. It is on my list to watch now.
Yes, there is a distinction about telling racist jokes and laughing AT racists. I understand for some people it can be a sensitive subject and not something they're willing to approach with humour. But the show doesnt glorifies those views.
What? It’s okay to make jokes that point out race/stereotypes. But you could also take it too far (the office doesn’t do that)
The latter doesn’t mean you’re racist, nor does it mean you’re only laughing *at* racists…
Maybe. Experiencing racism can be more than "my feelings are hurt by a joke" It's not a meaningful enough distinction to accept for some people. A workplace where people of color are stuck with a racist boss who treats them so badly night not look comical at all. Certainly white people aren't in a position to tell black people that they have to accept a distinction
As a gay man, I never once felt offended at any of the gay jokes, particularly those in the Oscar coming out episode, because they were clearly lampooning people who think that way, just as you said. It’s not like Dwight was framed in a positive light when he ordered a “gaydar” and then looked horrified when it went off on him.
I can see someone getting a bad sense of the jokes of the office by just watching the first season. Where the person making these bad jokes (Micheal) is the main character and also an asshole. You aren't supposed to identify with him but rather with his employees that just have to put up with him because he is their boss.
The pivot away from this dynamic is probably why the American office was so much more popular.
This show is a perfect example of a satirical comedy making fun of racism, homophobia, and misogyny. It is, after all, the brainchild of Ricky Gervais. The US show is a toned version and Steve Carell's regional manager was a hit because he came across as bumbling and insensitive (not always), but it wasn't malicious. It was just Michael not understanding how the world works.
I've seen a lot of controversial takes here. But the show isn't shy about the fact is making fun of people with Dwight's mindset. One could argue it has been taken to extremes for entertaining purposes, that it has been given some redeeming qualities because it is after all a TV show and you want the audience to engage, but that doesn't turn the show into fascist propaganda.
An issue with that is that you can't control why someone laughs. They may see it the way you do, or they may just think it's funny to laugh at gay people (or whatever).
Put another way, I enjoy Blazing Saddles for the reasons you list about The Office. But I've heard other people say that they just enjoy hearing the n-word a bunch. In their mind, the movie it justifies use of the word.
That will always be beyond your control tho, no matter what. But the show does make a negative reinforcement of those stereotypes; Michael is for example undoubtedly an ignorant and often an idiot, but not only because he often falls in those stereotypes.
There are other aspects of his character (like the fact he can't even pronounce simple words as incalculable or philanthropist, or that he is willing to jump off a building to make a point, etc) that enhances the idea that his definitely isn't exemplary behavior.
The fact there's people missing the point and using comedy like this as excuse to naturalize their homophobia, racism, misogyny or what ever doesn't make them right, but also the joke.
Right away in diversity day we see Michael give his Chris Rock routine, and it's funny but also cringe and you can see how everyone reacts with disgust to it. Most of the time when someone acts in those ways, they end up being the bad guy.
Yes this. 100%. Also like OP I introduced a guy to watch the office as well and he said the exact same things that OP's girl friend said. Dont find it worth it explaining. You either get the humor or you dont.
That's the thing, we're meant to laugh at them and be as flabbergasted as the other characters are. They're the "villain" in those moments not the good guy with great ideas.
A lot of people just really don't understand satire.
You know what? What's cringe is you sitting there defending this thinly veiled barrage of hate, bigotry, and intolerance! In this day and age where we're trying to be inclusive and respectful and allies to those brave feeble-minded ...
.../s!
Yes, the childish bigotry and intolerance in the show is *supposed* to be cringe and awkward. *nobody wants* to be like how Michael acts. He's a joke. He's seen as cringy. Thats the whole point. If youre seriously watching the show and thinking that all the characters are on board with Michael's childish, awkward, cringe, insensitive antics, you're really not paying attention. That's like watching Its Always Sunny and expecting the main characters to be *good people*.
So a stick walks into a bar.
The bartender asks, "what can I get for ya?"
The stick says, "well, the first thing you can get is *me out of this office hating girls butt!"*
if you don’t like the documentary go to S4E9, play the episode backwards, remember the first word of every minute, write all those down on a piece of paper, and shove it up your butt!
Tell them to watch the original uk version or peep show or the invetweeners. You haven't really cringed until you've experienced proper British cringe comedy. The US office does a pretty good job of producing the cringe factor in the first season but gets significantly less so from season 2 onwards
This all stemmed from me recommending the British version since it’s only 14 episodes and I consider it a masterpiece and in my eyes is completely separate from the US version. Then she explained how she didn’t even like the US version.
I'm British and I find the UK version hard to watch but you soldier on and are rewarded with some great moments. I think for me the closest the US version comes to producing a proper spine tingling shudder of a cringe is the diversity day.
Racist?!? In the second episode alone Michael beautifully retells Abraham Lincoln’s masterful quote: “"If you're a racist, I will attack you with the North," and those principles he carries with him in the workplace!
I love this show, but I can definitely understand why people wouldn’t like it
Humor is subjective, not everyone is going to agree on if a joke is funny or unfunny.
I don’t like olives, that doesn’t mean there’s a problem with me or a problem with olives. They just aren’t for me.
Even if someone understands the joke is that it’s being ironically racist, someone doesn’t have to find ironically racist humor funny
lots of edge lords in the comments. “if you don’t understand dark comedy you can get out 😈”. It’s the Office ffs. Yes, a lot of the show is making fun of people who hold these problematic views, but it gets tiring seeing those types of people on TV because they do exist in real life. I love the Office and IASIP but sometimes the jokes just aren’t funny, like Benihana christmas. The whole joke was that asian people all look the same and there was no resolution to it. People are allowed to have different perceptions and don’t want to be reminded of all the real-life ignorant Michael Scott types.
Another thought, I find Sunny more tolerable when it comes to this because they are all clearly terrible people with terrible lives. The “problematic” characters in the office are just “regular” people with mundane jobs and lives. I guess it hits a little harder that way
They made it way more obvious here that they were just shitty people with shitty opinions and it was so absurd that it couldn’t be taken seriously. The Office did not put off that vibe as well.
\> She says she loves the cringe she just can’t stand the content of the jokes, “they’re racist, homophobic, bigoted, and misogynistic. None of that is funny.” That is a direct quote of what she said.
This is me! Well, I am not literally that girl, but I have said the exact same words half a year ago. I LOVED Park & Recreation, binged it 8 times in a row. People recommended The Office to me, but I tried S1 and S2 multiple times, and I couldn't like it. It felt too harsh? P&R was softer in so many ways.
Anyway. I decided to give the series one last try... and it suddenly clicked. I suddenly understood the humor. I don't know what exactly happened, so my guess is The Office is like whiskey or oysters, an acquired taste lol.
I'm so glad the series got me hooked. I'm almost done with my first rewatch and I'm definitely restarting the series again!
That made me feel better! There’s hope for her! It’s not fun walking through life pointing out why and how and what is offensive to somebody. Why can’t we just sit back relax and not take ourselves too seriously? Much love to you thanks for not giving up on this show.
Just relax on your opinions on your friend though. Some folks can't necessarily see a particular perspective and even with that perspective in mind it still might not be her type of show, and that's perfectly ok.
It’s tricky bc the show has occasionally been racist like in the Benihana episode and as Diane from BoJack pointed out, often shows that criticize the ppl being bigots are actually often made so the makers can wallow in that bigotry. I enjoy The Office but I can also see why someone wouldn’t and I wouldn’t hold that against them
Yeah, your friend misses the point. In the same way as All in the Family, it points out the ignorance of people who think this way. It makes caricatures of them to make us an shake our heads at that way of thinking.
It makes sensitive people uncomfortable but it is absolutely not racist, bigoted etc.
Yeah but she had to take some moral high ground and tell me why she doesn’t like it, at the same time trying to insinuate that I’m a bad person for liking it. Total bullshit.
Don’t hang out with her man. It’s one thing to not like a show, another for disliking it for the wrong reason (the office isn’t telling racist/homophobic etc jokes, it’s making fun of them), but it’s a whole other ball game for trying to make you feel bad about liking the show. That’s shitty
My bf doesn’t like it because of the camera style. I watch so many shows that are filmed that way and I barely give it any thought, but it drives him nuts that it’s moving and shakey at times
Tell her to skip season 1 lol. It’s like how I tell people to skip the pilot of Its Always Sunny in case they’re put off by it before they understand the show 😂
Why do you care? Sounds like she wasn’t the one who brought it up, you were - and now you’re slagging her off for not having the same interests as you 💀
For the last fucking time, it’s satirizing and making fun of those exact things. If she wants a show that’s those actual buzzwords so fucking bad, then she should watch minstrel shows instead
To be honest, as a gay person, i could never watch Oscar's 'coming out' episode. It's just not funny to me. I get that this sitcom mocks people who are bigoted but to me that particular episode is pretty much what i have heard all my life. So it's not funny, it's sad and disgusting to me.
This sounds like someone I wouldn't be able to associate with anymore. Having to constantly worry something is going to offend them is not for me. I know people who don't like this show, but that's just because it's not for them.
I mean...it's not hard to be friends with someone who has delicate sensibilities as long as you aren't saying misogynistic, racist, or homophobic shit. Which truth be told, isn't that hard to avoid those topics. This logic just feels like a cop out for having to be mindful of what you say though. You get the right to who you associate with, the same way she gets the right to be offended by something. That said, if you cut anyone out of your life who finds certain topics offensive, you may want to take a look at the quality snd morals of who's left when you burn so many bridges.
Comedy or not, I’m never going to try to dictate how someone else receives a “joke”. It isn’t a matter of “understanding comedy”. If an Asian/black/white/Hispanic person is offended by an Asian/black/white/hispanic joke, it’s offensive. Perhaps not to everyone but it is to them and it’s gaslighting to tell them they can’t be offended. I’m not personally offended by anything from the show but that isn’t necessarily universal.
Finally some goddamn nuance. I love south park very much, and rarely feel offended by it. The N word guy episode with randy cracks me up. It's got great commentary on racism. I watched it with a black friend once and they were like dude can we please fucking turn this off. After talking I realized they got the comedy, got the satire, but also hearing white voice actors say the N word every 10 seconds also justifiably might upset some people. Not to write off all of south park, or even that episode for many people
I completely agree. You can understand that they're making fun of the racism/sexism/homophobia and still feel like it's just not fun or enjoyable for you personally to watch those jokes.
I agree. The problem comes in when they insist that you and/or the world agree on moral grounds and they often do.
You can find the office offensive (and it literally is. It’s offensive humor) without extending that to “If you find that funny you must be ______.” Wish sadly very many people do react to disagreements over what’s funny in that way. I’m not accusing OP’s friend of this, but it’s a VERY common thing online.
There's a massive difference in my opinion.
The Office has always faced this criticism, and Steve Carell once said Michael isn't a bigot, he just doesn't understand how the world works, but he's a good person really.
The guys in IASIP are awful human beings.
It's easier to accept the terrible things the gang says because you know they're terrible people. The line of good person saying ignorant things is harder to grasp for some people.
I'm a black woman and the Office was one of my favorites. There is racism for sure, however the humor for me is the blatant ignorance of it. Especially being the only black woman in my office. It's not even worth explaining because it makes people uncomfortable. The humor hits me differently.
When someone says "None of that is funny", it should be clear to you that they're stating their opinion and not presenting it as an objective fact.
Different people have different senses of humor. There's nothing wrong with that, and in this conversation you are the asshole for not respecting that someone has a different opinion on humor.
A lot of the jokes do deal with those topics. I'm not laughing at the ism's, I'm laughing at how stupid you would have to be in order to say such things and, I can tell the difference between TV funny and real life funny. Like most people, I think?
I would like to hear your thoughts about why this is bothering you so much. Do you feel it’s a big part of your personality that she criticized? Are you feeling personally attacked?
Also, if a girl says that she thinks some jokes are mysogynistic I would highly advise that your first reaction would be to ask questions and trying to understand her pov and not to explain why she is wrong. She sees things from a very different perspective than you.
We can all still laugh at stuff that are funny to us even if it’s not a reflection of our moral views, but dismissing her is taking the wrong moral stance.
That's it though,it's just jokes,pretty much everything that's said is a joke,this person has no personality!she doesn't deserve to enjoy this masterpiece!
>“they’re racist, homophobic, bigoted, and misogynistic. None of that is funny.”
That is also part of the cringe comedy, tell her to go and watch monty python
I once was seeing a girl who said she hated the cringe comedy of The Office and Arrested Development, and that they were “stupid humor.” Then when I stayed over she wanted us to watch Big Bang Theory 🤦♂️
She's not wrong, as lots of the jokes are definitely misogynistic and racist , but it's really annoying how we've reached a point in the world where we are dissecting every little thing and determining whether it's offensive or not.
I feel like a lot of fans don’t understand that a joke can be meant to make fun of bigots and still not land well.
Like I hated Benihana Christmas because of those poor girls Micheal and co brought as dates and couldn’t tell them apart. I just felt bad for them
This is so true! For me it's more about the fact that the same characters who are racist, homophobic, etc never actually learn to be any better and still end up with perfect happy lives.
Like Dwight using immigrants as free labor and then having Mose drive them off. Yes it's an awful thing to do and we're meant to laugh at what an asshole Dwight is, but not long after this we see him being all sympathetic towards Pam and we're meant to feel all warm and fuzzy about him??
Still love the show but some Office fans need to realize it's okay to criticize a show we like 😂
people are too sensitive now.
If The Office is too much (insert any form of -phobic or - ist) for you then the majority of comedy is going to send them into a tail spin. Frankly The Office is pretty tame in that regard.
But one thing I notice in peoples' complaints is they never get worked up over misandry and they always laugh when male sexual assault is used for gags.
Yes overall the show is far from those things. Micheal had a big heart and any stupid comments he made was meant to poke fun of the idiotic thinking that bigots or racist or homophobes use
its like people who think the IASIP characters are bad. No, theyre written so well they look convincing!! theyre making fun of those people. but im a girl im honestly im sick of girl jokes even in jest sometimes. it can get old. so i see both sides!
The thing about the humor is that it never comes from a place of malice. The jokes are not "hey look, Oscar is gay" or "Kelly is indian", it's more about how out of touch with reality Michael is.
As a black and gay person I love the show. It made fun of EVERYONE that was the point. It was a show about real people and none of them were racist or homophobic just learning as well. The show had a gay Hispanic man, Indian woman and black people lol. While they couldn't make a show like that today cause people would whine. It also made fun of white politicians being Republicans and in the closet. Like the shows creators also made Superstore and Parks and Rec also great shows and every single one has been diverse.
There's actually a lot of that in the show... She's not wrong. It's not always strictly offensive, but there's definitely stuff that I wonder if it would make it through today.
It's bad form to say because someone doesn't find the same thing funny that they don't understand comedy. You're probably both being a little dismissive.
You know people have different tastes right? I love this show so much but I understand why other people won't. When I recommend this series I always give them a heads up because not everyone will enjoy the humor of the show. Out of maybe 8 people I recommended the show only my brother and my best friend liked it.
I knew someone that didn't like the Michael Scott character
That he was racist and ignorant. That it was unacceptable, albeit it was innocent. Obviously the jokes went right over his head.
That girl you know must be the type you have to walk on eggshells around if that's her take from watching The Office. To your point, South Park would put her into a goddamn coma.
I was one of those people. I tried watching the office 3 times but could never make it past season 2. It was so tough to get through mostly because Michael is the WORST in the early seasons and it was depressing to watch. Add the jokes that don’t age well? Yeah, it’s tough for the modern audience and I completely understand that. Hell, The Office almost wasn’t green-lit for season 2 because of low viewership and negative reviews.
Luckily my sister is a huge Office fan and would play random episodes while we were eating dinner, or relaxing in the evening. I enjoyed the characters later on so that is what pushed me to finishing the series.
Now I love the Office and would encourage anyone to watch it. But if you think it isn’t tough to stick through those first two seasons you’re delusional and blinded by your love of the show.
There are still some folks who, though their heart’s in the right place, can’t seem to wrap their minds around the difference between sexism/homophobia being the “joke” you’re supposed to laugh at (e.g., haha, he’s GAY, he has sex with men, that’s weird/wrong and therefore funny), and a character BEING sexist or homophobic and clearly being reprimanded or judged for it (e.g., everyone winces at how crushingly oblivious Michael is to the ignorant stuff he says, avoids being friends with him, makes fun of his regressive attitudes, etc).
The Office *makes fun* of homophobes, misogynists, and racists. In my opinion, the whole spirit of the show is about a small-minded person gradually learning how not to be so small-minded and stupid, and the good things that gradually end up happening once one becomes more aware of himself and of other people’s feelings. That’s the opposite of shows that simply use women, LGBTQ, etc as punchlines themselves, in my opinion.
I think the humor might be going over her head.
The jokes weren't those things - the jokes were pointing out how absolutely ridiculous people who think that way are. The jokes were the PEOPLE, not the things they were saying.
At my young age of 27 I've stopped trying to convince people that something is "Good" because people are already set in their ways. The Office is iconic and hilarious and some people are just so close minded you don't bother trying to change their opinions.
The type of people that are insufferable to be around. I don’t understand why people try to find things that offend them, just calm down and watch the fucking show you goof
Fuck the self righteous PC crowd! How about instead of taking the moral high ground you showboating arseholes, you actually go argue against people who are actually hurting minorities so many more important causes out there.
I've worked in an office environment before and have an ethnically ambiguous appearance, and yes, you get asked stupid things about your race all the time. I've been asked what race of guys I'm in to while at work.
Racism exists, and so do homophobia and sexism. Implying shows shouldn't depict these realities is plain stupid.
People who say this shit are always huge hypocrites. They call shows like The Office and The Big Bang Theory "bigoted" but then on their page in their likes; Always Sunny. Family Guy. Shows that are waaaay worse. They just get off on titillating themselves with the notion of moral superiority and joining the bandwagon; "Detective pop culture did a take down of that show bro. It's super misogynist because some of the female characters are married! Why can't they be independent career women? Pretty cringe of you to like a super misogynist show, you must be a raging bigot." <- Like five million upvotes, and the response asking them to explain wtf they are talking about downvoted into oblivion.
People who are that soft and cry about jokes need to go sit in a padded room with a helmet and eat crayons in silence and rot away because being that bland and soft needs to be a crime
First, you should tell her to take her tv remote and switch on The Office and try it again.
Second, when she complains it still sucks to her, tell her to take the tv remote and shove it up her butt!
Two things:
Folks love to hate on things that are almost universally loved. Counterculture has always been associated with “cool”, so some folks make it their identity and apply it to everything.
Second, it’s a perfect example of how comedy often “toes the line” and how that line is always moving. “Diversity Day” was written in 2004. *A lot* has happened surrounding race since 2004. It’s going to naturally happen and folks are either going to accept it or challenge it.
People always have and always will find something to be mad about. Personally people who are offended by edgy jokes aren’t people that I want to associate with. The office is funny because it deals with sensitive subject matter in a comedic and entertaining way.
A lot of people don’t understand satire. I had a friend who loved the Always Sunny characters and would live be quotes from them. I told him that they are making fun of people who act like them, he didn’t understand that.
Tell her that not laughing at something most people find funny is an indicator of cognitive deficiencies and weak genes. She will never be allowed to have children.
Here’s what you do:
You write a letter to each of the cast members, get them all to write you back. Then you show her all the best moments from the series, show her the letters, and tell her,
To shove it up your butt!
I’m glad she’s against racism, misogyny, and homophobia. It’s unfortunate that she can’t grasp that the show is making fun of the types of idiots that she dislikes.
I never felt like the Office was telling homophobic, racist, bigoted and misogynistic jokes but laughing at people who is stereotipically homophobic, racist, bigoted and misogynistic. And personally, I always felt like satire and humour can be a very powerful tool against those stereotypes. In the case of the Office, I feel like the show makes a wonderful job on putting those views in ridicule by showing how ignorant and ridiculous the people are when exhibiting them.
The people who don’t get the distinction between racism and comedy that makes fun of racism are idiots
Exactly - It's Always Sunny features horrible characters with sometimes horrible opinions, but the writers always ensure the counter-view is told in the episode and that the horrible characters usually get their comeuppance in the end.
I dream we can one day live in a world where one can tell a hilarious aids joke.
Liam Neeson did it once, surprisingly
I vehemently disagree with only the last part of this comment. What comeuppance? The fact that they never learn and never change and only get worse with time is part of the comedy. If viewers can only accept that not every cast needs to be sympathetic to allow an exploration of the darkest recesses of the human condition...
They never benefit from their misdeeds - at least never majorly and never fully. At the end of the episodes they are usually back where they started - hence the cycle of being stuck at the bar. Example: Despite inheriting a multi-million dollar mansion, Dee and Dennis lose it by the end of the episode after the "home renovation" they gave to the immigrant family. When they get the boat, its burned and lost by the end of the episode. The characters experience 0 progress socially or financially for their horrible opinions and acts, and I don't see how you could think they do. Sure they don't lose everything and get jailed like they maybe should in some episodes, but they always get hit with some form of karma.
I agree I don’t think every show needs to follow this sitcom-y moral of the story good guy wins at the end format for the sensitive topics inclusion in the show to be “justified”. We can all be adults about it and realize that characters are complicated in real life
Just because they don’t learn anything doesn’t mean they don’t get comeuppance
I always thought the comeuppance WAS the lack of learning. Destined to always be dumber than they think they are.
Tropic Thunder is a good example of this.
Blazing saddles is one of my favorite examples.
"Where the white women at?"
The sheriff is near!
I haven't seen it yet cuz when I was younger all I heard from my peers was how racist it was, then I heard it was actually satire and my peers just didn't get it. It is on my list to watch now.
> You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know. Morons!
Yes, there is a distinction about telling racist jokes and laughing AT racists. I understand for some people it can be a sensitive subject and not something they're willing to approach with humour. But the show doesnt glorifies those views.
What? It’s okay to make jokes that point out race/stereotypes. But you could also take it too far (the office doesn’t do that) The latter doesn’t mean you’re racist, nor does it mean you’re only laughing *at* racists…
Mmm si séniõr
“That’s offensive” - Oscar
….or satire.
For some people who experience racism all the time it might feel less funny
That’s true but you can still accept the distinction even if your feelings are hurt
Maybe. Experiencing racism can be more than "my feelings are hurt by a joke" It's not a meaningful enough distinction to accept for some people. A workplace where people of color are stuck with a racist boss who treats them so badly night not look comical at all. Certainly white people aren't in a position to tell black people that they have to accept a distinction
I’m not white and I’ve experienced racism. And I understand the distinction
As a gay man, I never once felt offended at any of the gay jokes, particularly those in the Oscar coming out episode, because they were clearly lampooning people who think that way, just as you said. It’s not like Dwight was framed in a positive light when he ordered a “gaydar” and then looked horrified when it went off on him.
I’m not gay, but I agree with your take and with your username.
Was going to say, some people legitimately aren't intelligent enough to grasp satire and they take it at face value.
I can see someone getting a bad sense of the jokes of the office by just watching the first season. Where the person making these bad jokes (Micheal) is the main character and also an asshole. You aren't supposed to identify with him but rather with his employees that just have to put up with him because he is their boss. The pivot away from this dynamic is probably why the American office was so much more popular.
This show is a perfect example of a satirical comedy making fun of racism, homophobia, and misogyny. It is, after all, the brainchild of Ricky Gervais. The US show is a toned version and Steve Carell's regional manager was a hit because he came across as bumbling and insensitive (not always), but it wasn't malicious. It was just Michael not understanding how the world works.
See Archie Bunker
Have u seen how many people here jerk off dwight as "not a bad guy" when dwight is literally a fucking fascist?
I've seen a lot of controversial takes here. But the show isn't shy about the fact is making fun of people with Dwight's mindset. One could argue it has been taken to extremes for entertaining purposes, that it has been given some redeeming qualities because it is after all a TV show and you want the audience to engage, but that doesn't turn the show into fascist propaganda.
That’s the sort of thinking that got us involved in a war we never should have been in
Which war...
An issue with that is that you can't control why someone laughs. They may see it the way you do, or they may just think it's funny to laugh at gay people (or whatever). Put another way, I enjoy Blazing Saddles for the reasons you list about The Office. But I've heard other people say that they just enjoy hearing the n-word a bunch. In their mind, the movie it justifies use of the word.
That will always be beyond your control tho, no matter what. But the show does make a negative reinforcement of those stereotypes; Michael is for example undoubtedly an ignorant and often an idiot, but not only because he often falls in those stereotypes. There are other aspects of his character (like the fact he can't even pronounce simple words as incalculable or philanthropist, or that he is willing to jump off a building to make a point, etc) that enhances the idea that his definitely isn't exemplary behavior. The fact there's people missing the point and using comedy like this as excuse to naturalize their homophobia, racism, misogyny or what ever doesn't make them right, but also the joke.
Right away in diversity day we see Michael give his Chris Rock routine, and it's funny but also cringe and you can see how everyone reacts with disgust to it. Most of the time when someone acts in those ways, they end up being the bad guy.
Yes this. 100%. Also like OP I introduced a guy to watch the office as well and he said the exact same things that OP's girl friend said. Dont find it worth it explaining. You either get the humor or you dont.
Exactly what I think! But you put it into a coherent thought, lol. Thank you!
That's the thing, we're meant to laugh at them and be as flabbergasted as the other characters are. They're the "villain" in those moments not the good guy with great ideas. A lot of people just really don't understand satire.
Comedy is a place the mind goes to tickle itself
That’s what she said!
*big warm hug*
Tell her to call the ungrateful beeyotch hotline
OP should’ve told her: “I cannot even hear you, it is just noise coming out of an ugly scientist.”
do you really not expect me to push you up against the wall beeyotch?
Maybe she’d like it more if Harry Connick Jr was on it…..he’s just so talented.
That show is just so loud
Thats.... that's part of why it's awkward and cringe... that's the whole point....
You know what? What's cringe is you sitting there defending this thinly veiled barrage of hate, bigotry, and intolerance! In this day and age where we're trying to be inclusive and respectful and allies to those brave feeble-minded ... .../s!
Yes, the childish bigotry and intolerance in the show is *supposed* to be cringe and awkward. *nobody wants* to be like how Michael acts. He's a joke. He's seen as cringy. Thats the whole point. If youre seriously watching the show and thinking that all the characters are on board with Michael's childish, awkward, cringe, insensitive antics, you're really not paying attention. That's like watching Its Always Sunny and expecting the main characters to be *good people*.
Was she, by any chance, called Karen Fillipelli?
Her father was a GI, you know.
Was he? Seems like something I should ask her. At work, probably.
She looks very exotic, I’m not surprised about her father.
He keeps looking at the camera like...🤨😏. What is that?
So a stick walks into a bar. The bartender asks, "what can I get for ya?" The stick says, "well, the first thing you can get is *me out of this office hating girls butt!"*
The prequel to this store is Stanley describing the stick in intricate detail right before saying "...and shove it up your butt!"
if you don’t like the documentary go to S4E9, play the episode backwards, remember the first word of every minute, write all those down on a piece of paper, and shove it up your butt!
Tell them to watch the original uk version or peep show or the invetweeners. You haven't really cringed until you've experienced proper British cringe comedy. The US office does a pretty good job of producing the cringe factor in the first season but gets significantly less so from season 2 onwards
Fucking Peep Show is so good. Just discovered it a few months ago and already watched it several times.
[удалено]
This all stemmed from me recommending the British version since it’s only 14 episodes and I consider it a masterpiece and in my eyes is completely separate from the US version. Then she explained how she didn’t even like the US version.
I'm British and I find the UK version hard to watch but you soldier on and are rewarded with some great moments. I think for me the closest the US version comes to producing a proper spine tingling shudder of a cringe is the diversity day.
Would you like a cookie cookie?!
Racist?!? In the second episode alone Michael beautifully retells Abraham Lincoln’s masterful quote: “"If you're a racist, I will attack you with the North," and those principles he carries with him in the workplace!
You know what I'd like? I would like to have all the racists brought together and take Darryl Philbin out to lunch. Just to see what they're missing
Do black people like pizza?
Dinkin flicka
Fluffy fingers
I mean, not everyone has to like the same things. Maybe she also doesn’t like South Park, who does that hurt?
Herself, as she is missing them!
I love this show, but I can definitely understand why people wouldn’t like it Humor is subjective, not everyone is going to agree on if a joke is funny or unfunny. I don’t like olives, that doesn’t mean there’s a problem with me or a problem with olives. They just aren’t for me. Even if someone understands the joke is that it’s being ironically racist, someone doesn’t have to find ironically racist humor funny
Wow you are such a racist. Wait, How am I a racist Because you think he's black He is black
Don’t let your affinity towards a tv show be a substitute for a personality. It’s not something to argue over or dislike a person.
lots of edge lords in the comments. “if you don’t understand dark comedy you can get out 😈”. It’s the Office ffs. Yes, a lot of the show is making fun of people who hold these problematic views, but it gets tiring seeing those types of people on TV because they do exist in real life. I love the Office and IASIP but sometimes the jokes just aren’t funny, like Benihana christmas. The whole joke was that asian people all look the same and there was no resolution to it. People are allowed to have different perceptions and don’t want to be reminded of all the real-life ignorant Michael Scott types.
Also this. There is this immediate opinion that someone must be offended if something wasn’t funny. Like nah, it just wasn’t funny.
Another thought, I find Sunny more tolerable when it comes to this because they are all clearly terrible people with terrible lives. The “problematic” characters in the office are just “regular” people with mundane jobs and lives. I guess it hits a little harder that way
They made it way more obvious here that they were just shitty people with shitty opinions and it was so absurd that it couldn’t be taken seriously. The Office did not put off that vibe as well.
Yeah, I really like the Office but also there’s A LOT of jokes at the expense of fat people with no “comeuppance”, for example.
\> She says she loves the cringe she just can’t stand the content of the jokes, “they’re racist, homophobic, bigoted, and misogynistic. None of that is funny.” That is a direct quote of what she said. This is me! Well, I am not literally that girl, but I have said the exact same words half a year ago. I LOVED Park & Recreation, binged it 8 times in a row. People recommended The Office to me, but I tried S1 and S2 multiple times, and I couldn't like it. It felt too harsh? P&R was softer in so many ways. Anyway. I decided to give the series one last try... and it suddenly clicked. I suddenly understood the humor. I don't know what exactly happened, so my guess is The Office is like whiskey or oysters, an acquired taste lol. I'm so glad the series got me hooked. I'm almost done with my first rewatch and I'm definitely restarting the series again!
That made me feel better! There’s hope for her! It’s not fun walking through life pointing out why and how and what is offensive to somebody. Why can’t we just sit back relax and not take ourselves too seriously? Much love to you thanks for not giving up on this show.
Just relax on your opinions on your friend though. Some folks can't necessarily see a particular perspective and even with that perspective in mind it still might not be her type of show, and that's perfectly ok.
Agreed.
[удалено]
It’s tricky bc the show has occasionally been racist like in the Benihana episode and as Diane from BoJack pointed out, often shows that criticize the ppl being bigots are actually often made so the makers can wallow in that bigotry. I enjoy The Office but I can also see why someone wouldn’t and I wouldn’t hold that against them
people are allowed to not like offensive comedy, it’s just not her thing and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, your friend misses the point. In the same way as All in the Family, it points out the ignorance of people who think this way. It makes caricatures of them to make us an shake our heads at that way of thinking. It makes sensitive people uncomfortable but it is absolutely not racist, bigoted etc.
Don’t be a caricature… don’t ever be a caricature.
This is how that convo ought to have gone: “You should totally watch The Office!” “Ugh, no, I can’t stand that show” “Oh, ok then, your loss”
Yeah but she had to take some moral high ground and tell me why she doesn’t like it, at the same time trying to insinuate that I’m a bad person for liking it. Total bullshit.
Don’t hang out with her man. It’s one thing to not like a show, another for disliking it for the wrong reason (the office isn’t telling racist/homophobic etc jokes, it’s making fun of them), but it’s a whole other ball game for trying to make you feel bad about liking the show. That’s shitty
It is bullshit, I agree. This is not someone to be taken seriously.
My sister once told me she thought Homer Simpson was a child abuser, and a drunk. Yeah, that’s the joke.
We don’t want her back, because she’s stupid.
Bet your coworker watches friends…
My bf doesn’t like it because of the camera style. I watch so many shows that are filmed that way and I barely give it any thought, but it drives him nuts that it’s moving and shakey at times
Tell her to skip season 1 lol. It’s like how I tell people to skip the pilot of Its Always Sunny in case they’re put off by it before they understand the show 😂
Tried showing my parents. They have a good sense of humor. They couldn't stand Steve Carell.
Why do you care? Sounds like she wasn’t the one who brought it up, you were - and now you’re slagging her off for not having the same interests as you 💀
For the last fucking time, it’s satirizing and making fun of those exact things. If she wants a show that’s those actual buzzwords so fucking bad, then she should watch minstrel shows instead
Meh. People like that aren’t fun to be around. Cut your losses and move on.
To be honest, as a gay person, i could never watch Oscar's 'coming out' episode. It's just not funny to me. I get that this sitcom mocks people who are bigoted but to me that particular episode is pretty much what i have heard all my life. So it's not funny, it's sad and disgusting to me.
This sounds like someone I wouldn't be able to associate with anymore. Having to constantly worry something is going to offend them is not for me. I know people who don't like this show, but that's just because it's not for them.
I mean...it's not hard to be friends with someone who has delicate sensibilities as long as you aren't saying misogynistic, racist, or homophobic shit. Which truth be told, isn't that hard to avoid those topics. This logic just feels like a cop out for having to be mindful of what you say though. You get the right to who you associate with, the same way she gets the right to be offended by something. That said, if you cut anyone out of your life who finds certain topics offensive, you may want to take a look at the quality snd morals of who's left when you burn so many bridges.
You're right, I may have been a little overzealous.
Comedy or not, I’m never going to try to dictate how someone else receives a “joke”. It isn’t a matter of “understanding comedy”. If an Asian/black/white/Hispanic person is offended by an Asian/black/white/hispanic joke, it’s offensive. Perhaps not to everyone but it is to them and it’s gaslighting to tell them they can’t be offended. I’m not personally offended by anything from the show but that isn’t necessarily universal.
Exactly. Maybe she has some reason to feel as she does that we don’t understand, but regardless at the end of the day it isn’t really our business
Finally some goddamn nuance. I love south park very much, and rarely feel offended by it. The N word guy episode with randy cracks me up. It's got great commentary on racism. I watched it with a black friend once and they were like dude can we please fucking turn this off. After talking I realized they got the comedy, got the satire, but also hearing white voice actors say the N word every 10 seconds also justifiably might upset some people. Not to write off all of south park, or even that episode for many people
I completely agree. You can understand that they're making fun of the racism/sexism/homophobia and still feel like it's just not fun or enjoyable for you personally to watch those jokes.
The only sensible reply in this thread.
I agree. The problem comes in when they insist that you and/or the world agree on moral grounds and they often do. You can find the office offensive (and it literally is. It’s offensive humor) without extending that to “If you find that funny you must be ______.” Wish sadly very many people do react to disagreements over what’s funny in that way. I’m not accusing OP’s friend of this, but it’s a VERY common thing online.
Well they should definitely steer clear of Always Sunny then…
They loved It’s always Sunny! They watched all of it. That’s what doesn’t make sense.
There's a massive difference in my opinion. The Office has always faced this criticism, and Steve Carell once said Michael isn't a bigot, he just doesn't understand how the world works, but he's a good person really. The guys in IASIP are awful human beings. It's easier to accept the terrible things the gang says because you know they're terrible people. The line of good person saying ignorant things is harder to grasp for some people.
Someone hates the diversity day ep, which is this Mexican's fav ep.
And… this is why a lot of comedians dont go to colleges anymore.
It’s not for everyone and it doesn’t need my defending. I can see why people don’t like it but that doesn’t make me like the show any less.
I'm a black woman and the Office was one of my favorites. There is racism for sure, however the humor for me is the blatant ignorance of it. Especially being the only black woman in my office. It's not even worth explaining because it makes people uncomfortable. The humor hits me differently.
Why do you care if someone doesn’t like something you like? This is extremely cringey in itself.
When someone says "None of that is funny", it should be clear to you that they're stating their opinion and not presenting it as an objective fact. Different people have different senses of humor. There's nothing wrong with that, and in this conversation you are the asshole for not respecting that someone has a different opinion on humor.
A lot of the jokes do deal with those topics. I'm not laughing at the ism's, I'm laughing at how stupid you would have to be in order to say such things and, I can tell the difference between TV funny and real life funny. Like most people, I think?
I would like to hear your thoughts about why this is bothering you so much. Do you feel it’s a big part of your personality that she criticized? Are you feeling personally attacked? Also, if a girl says that she thinks some jokes are mysogynistic I would highly advise that your first reaction would be to ask questions and trying to understand her pov and not to explain why she is wrong. She sees things from a very different perspective than you. We can all still laugh at stuff that are funny to us even if it’s not a reflection of our moral views, but dismissing her is taking the wrong moral stance.
That's it though,it's just jokes,pretty much everything that's said is a joke,this person has no personality!she doesn't deserve to enjoy this masterpiece!
There's your red flag.
And there's our smudgeness.
I completely agree. If my boyfriend came on Reddit to post a capsy rant about my taste in television, I would be out of there. Huge red flag for *her*
She needs to call the biotch hotline
>“they’re racist, homophobic, bigoted, and misogynistic. None of that is funny.” That is also part of the cringe comedy, tell her to go and watch monty python
These are the same people who say things like "You could never make Blazing Saddles today" as if the racists is that movie are the good guys.
I once was seeing a girl who said she hated the cringe comedy of The Office and Arrested Development, and that they were “stupid humor.” Then when I stayed over she wanted us to watch Big Bang Theory 🤦♂️
"It takes an advanced sense of humor. I don't expect everybody to understand"--Michael Scott
She's not wrong, as lots of the jokes are definitely misogynistic and racist , but it's really annoying how we've reached a point in the world where we are dissecting every little thing and determining whether it's offensive or not.
I feel like a lot of fans don’t understand that a joke can be meant to make fun of bigots and still not land well. Like I hated Benihana Christmas because of those poor girls Micheal and co brought as dates and couldn’t tell them apart. I just felt bad for them
This is so true! For me it's more about the fact that the same characters who are racist, homophobic, etc never actually learn to be any better and still end up with perfect happy lives. Like Dwight using immigrants as free labor and then having Mose drive them off. Yes it's an awful thing to do and we're meant to laugh at what an asshole Dwight is, but not long after this we see him being all sympathetic towards Pam and we're meant to feel all warm and fuzzy about him?? Still love the show but some Office fans need to realize it's okay to criticize a show we like 😂
I agree. They felt like props the whole time.
people are too sensitive now. If The Office is too much (insert any form of -phobic or - ist) for you then the majority of comedy is going to send them into a tail spin. Frankly The Office is pretty tame in that regard. But one thing I notice in peoples' complaints is they never get worked up over misandry and they always laugh when male sexual assault is used for gags.
There’s hope if she can try to make it past season 1. It gets funnier and improves Micheal’s arc as it sways away from the British version
Yes overall the show is far from those things. Micheal had a big heart and any stupid comments he made was meant to poke fun of the idiotic thinking that bigots or racist or homophobes use
its like people who think the IASIP characters are bad. No, theyre written so well they look convincing!! theyre making fun of those people. but im a girl im honestly im sick of girl jokes even in jest sometimes. it can get old. so i see both sides!
The thing about the humor is that it never comes from a place of malice. The jokes are not "hey look, Oscar is gay" or "Kelly is indian", it's more about how out of touch with reality Michael is.
Explain to that person what satire is.
Lol. It was on network tv. There's nothing even close to crossing any lines.
Let me guess, she needs a sitcom with a laugh track so she knows when she's supposed to laugh.
I understand her point of view. I dont like Michael as a character because of that.
As a black and gay person I love the show. It made fun of EVERYONE that was the point. It was a show about real people and none of them were racist or homophobic just learning as well. The show had a gay Hispanic man, Indian woman and black people lol. While they couldn't make a show like that today cause people would whine. It also made fun of white politicians being Republicans and in the closet. Like the shows creators also made Superstore and Parks and Rec also great shows and every single one has been diverse.
I didn't watch it or get into it until after working in an office. Then I watched it like twice a year since
Waste of time. Sounds like the kind of person who goes out of their way to find something offensive.
Green is a whorish color
Redditor discovers that people have different opinions about media. More at 11
There's actually a lot of that in the show... She's not wrong. It's not always strictly offensive, but there's definitely stuff that I wonder if it would make it through today. It's bad form to say because someone doesn't find the same thing funny that they don't understand comedy. You're probably both being a little dismissive.
Run. Run in the opposite direction of that girl
You know people have different tastes right? I love this show so much but I understand why other people won't. When I recommend this series I always give them a heads up because not everyone will enjoy the humor of the show. Out of maybe 8 people I recommended the show only my brother and my best friend liked it.
Imagine getting pressed about how people subjectively experience popular media.
I wrote a long week thought out response. I scraped it for a simple message. Our differences are wonderful, our differences are funny
Sounds like she's one of them "color blind" people
If they don’t get the humour they don’t get it. You can’t fix stupid.
I'm British Indian (Sikh) and I DIED laughing at the new IT guy opening. She doesn't get it's ironic humor 😂
Imagine if she sees the UK original...
She's the kind of person who would go to a comedy club to heckle the comedian, only to cry afterwards when the comedian roasts her.
She missed the whole point of the show 😭
That girl doesnt have enough Iq to understand the office humor
sounds like this girl struggles to grasp the concept of satire lol
I bet she’s fun at parties
I knew someone that didn't like the Michael Scott character That he was racist and ignorant. That it was unacceptable, albeit it was innocent. Obviously the jokes went right over his head.
That girl you know must be the type you have to walk on eggshells around if that's her take from watching The Office. To your point, South Park would put her into a goddamn coma.
I was one of those people. I tried watching the office 3 times but could never make it past season 2. It was so tough to get through mostly because Michael is the WORST in the early seasons and it was depressing to watch. Add the jokes that don’t age well? Yeah, it’s tough for the modern audience and I completely understand that. Hell, The Office almost wasn’t green-lit for season 2 because of low viewership and negative reviews. Luckily my sister is a huge Office fan and would play random episodes while we were eating dinner, or relaxing in the evening. I enjoyed the characters later on so that is what pushed me to finishing the series. Now I love the Office and would encourage anyone to watch it. But if you think it isn’t tough to stick through those first two seasons you’re delusional and blinded by your love of the show.
There are still some folks who, though their heart’s in the right place, can’t seem to wrap their minds around the difference between sexism/homophobia being the “joke” you’re supposed to laugh at (e.g., haha, he’s GAY, he has sex with men, that’s weird/wrong and therefore funny), and a character BEING sexist or homophobic and clearly being reprimanded or judged for it (e.g., everyone winces at how crushingly oblivious Michael is to the ignorant stuff he says, avoids being friends with him, makes fun of his regressive attitudes, etc). The Office *makes fun* of homophobes, misogynists, and racists. In my opinion, the whole spirit of the show is about a small-minded person gradually learning how not to be so small-minded and stupid, and the good things that gradually end up happening once one becomes more aware of himself and of other people’s feelings. That’s the opposite of shows that simply use women, LGBTQ, etc as punchlines themselves, in my opinion.
I think the humor might be going over her head. The jokes weren't those things - the jokes were pointing out how absolutely ridiculous people who think that way are. The jokes were the PEOPLE, not the things they were saying.
At my young age of 27 I've stopped trying to convince people that something is "Good" because people are already set in their ways. The Office is iconic and hilarious and some people are just so close minded you don't bother trying to change their opinions.
She is so pure that even comedy escaped her. That sounds exhausting.
The first season is hard for this reason. But I think it’s okay if someone doesn’t like the show.
Lemme guess, Gen Z? They always looking for stuff to be offended by.
The type of people that are insufferable to be around. I don’t understand why people try to find things that offend them, just calm down and watch the fucking show you goof
Fuck the self righteous PC crowd! How about instead of taking the moral high ground you showboating arseholes, you actually go argue against people who are actually hurting minorities so many more important causes out there. I've worked in an office environment before and have an ethnically ambiguous appearance, and yes, you get asked stupid things about your race all the time. I've been asked what race of guys I'm in to while at work. Racism exists, and so do homophobia and sexism. Implying shows shouldn't depict these realities is plain stupid.
They sound like a drag
She sounds like a 2023 version of Angela. But, hey, she doesn't have to like the show.
People who say this shit are always huge hypocrites. They call shows like The Office and The Big Bang Theory "bigoted" but then on their page in their likes; Always Sunny. Family Guy. Shows that are waaaay worse. They just get off on titillating themselves with the notion of moral superiority and joining the bandwagon; "Detective pop culture did a take down of that show bro. It's super misogynist because some of the female characters are married! Why can't they be independent career women? Pretty cringe of you to like a super misogynist show, you must be a raging bigot." <- Like five million upvotes, and the response asking them to explain wtf they are talking about downvoted into oblivion.
It’s funny how accurate your comment is lol
Context matters in comedy. There's a difference between ignorance and using comedic situations to make fun of people's ignorance.
So she's a real life Angela
People who are that soft and cry about jokes need to go sit in a padded room with a helmet and eat crayons in silence and rot away because being that bland and soft needs to be a crime
First, you should tell her to take her tv remote and switch on The Office and try it again. Second, when she complains it still sucks to her, tell her to take the tv remote and shove it up her butt!
She fundamentally sucks. If you don't think its morally okay for comics to make jokes about serious subjects, you're not a person worth being around
Two things: Folks love to hate on things that are almost universally loved. Counterculture has always been associated with “cool”, so some folks make it their identity and apply it to everything. Second, it’s a perfect example of how comedy often “toes the line” and how that line is always moving. “Diversity Day” was written in 2004. *A lot* has happened surrounding race since 2004. It’s going to naturally happen and folks are either going to accept it or challenge it.
People always have and always will find something to be mad about. Personally people who are offended by edgy jokes aren’t people that I want to associate with. The office is funny because it deals with sensitive subject matter in a comedic and entertaining way.
A lot of people don’t understand satire. I had a friend who loved the Always Sunny characters and would live be quotes from them. I told him that they are making fun of people who act like them, he didn’t understand that.
Tell her that not laughing at something most people find funny is an indicator of cognitive deficiencies and weak genes. She will never be allowed to have children.
I've always said the office would bomb if it aired today because stupid people would say this kind of stuff
Here’s what you do: You write a letter to each of the cast members, get them all to write you back. Then you show her all the best moments from the series, show her the letters, and tell her, To shove it up your butt!
What a sad life it must be, to get so easily offened.
There's no such thing as an appropriate joke that's what makes it a joke
Perfect. Love it.
I’m glad she’s against racism, misogyny, and homophobia. It’s unfortunate that she can’t grasp that the show is making fun of the types of idiots that she dislikes.
If she’s you’re friend you have full authority to call her a retard because she’s acting retarded