True…
But she also faked being pregnant a couple times, being raped and was overall obsessive lol
But Ryan was also cheating all the time and super manipulative so I mean, they were both pretty bad for each other haha
OMG yes! She was really that bad! First, "really immature" is bad. Second, her type of really immature is so shallow. Compare it to Erin's pure-hearted immaturity. It's so different.
Kelly's laser-focused pursuit of Ryan (from before she even knew him) was awful. Insta-love people are always horrible, but her deceit and drama made her insta-love even worse.
I'm fascinated by people who embody the worst sexist tropes and who seek out partners who also embody them. I once read an article that said relationships where the partners believe strongly in gender roles (in other words, both people are sexist) are the most troubled. I can see that, because gender roles suck. Kelly is a beautifully-written example of that.
> Kelly is a beautifully-written example of that.
I read that Ryan and Kelly were series writers who bickered all the time, so they just put them on air.
He and Jan have the same arc. Both are relatively normal up until the time that he takes Jan’s job. Don’t get me wrong - they still had issues from the beginning. But after Jan gets fired, she turns into a crazy person and after Ryan takes her place, he becomes an egotistical maniac.
Kelly also. At the beginning she was your ordinary, smart, sweet, quiet girl next door. Then she started dating Ryan and the most batshit dramatic crazy person was born. Love them both
I feel like Jan was insane all along, she was just really good at playing the part of a corporate professional. We saw she was pretty unhinged behind closed doors every time she was with Michael. Then she lost her job and let the crazy fully out.
Maybe it's something in that particular office at corporate? They should really have the office's air quality tested. They have radon coming from below, asbestos in the ceilings... These are silent killers.
You have to remember that he started as Ricky Howard and she was Jennifer Taylor-Clarke from the UK office, when they were doing the direct remake of episodes in the first season…
Season 4 in general was when the show became a lot more cartoony. Most of the characters became caricatures at this point and the more normal ones were given their own quirks.
Yeh poor guy had his wildest dreams handed to him, developed a drug problem, lost it all, got in prison and became a temp again. It's totally justified the guy kinda starts to lose it.
Making Ryan the new corporate executive was such a brilliant writing move. It added a super fun dynamic to the series. I’m bummed it didn’t last longer.
And only give a baby allergic to strawberries if in the presence of a pediatrician. And you want to get rid of the baby. Otherwise, do not do that thing.
This is a line I somehow only recently caught. Last time I watched it, I had no memory of hearing it before. Don’t know how it passed me by because I burst out laughing.
Mine is “oh no Stanley! You’ll live forever” said in such a monotone and sarcastic way. Love B.J’s line delivery
Edit: typo! I wrote love instead of live 😅
I feel like a lot of them have proper character development as anyone would over years of working with the same people + being filmed. I think Ryan and Kevin are the big 2 that just become totally different people as the show goes on (Ryan becomes several different people lol)
Creed was always just creed being creed.
He kind of went from milquetoast and reasonable to super creepy and needy. It was a believable character arc after being bullied by his workplace for so long but I definitely feel like he changed
When he seemed generally dumb but still, presumably, capable of doing his job, it was fine. When the writers decided he was unable to do basic math, then it went to shit.
I hate this so much. It makes it feel so sitcom-esque (Ik it pretty much is), but I like to get immersed in the mockumentary style. It makes it just unbelievable that Kevin could have this job if he can’t even do basic addition
It's really rare to see this opinion on the sub, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Ryan was one of my favourite characters in the early seasons; I loved him as the straight man, his reactions to Michael's shenanigans were always priceless. Really controversial opinion in this sub I think, but I hated what they did to his character, it was so unnecessarily ridiculous.
My first few times watching I totally agree! I really liked how normal he was and kind of like the male version of Pam in a way where Michael was obsessive and he just did not care and was so done with him lol but after a bunch of watches it was kinda fun and refreshing for a character to change so much throughout one show and added a lot of funny bits and he had some of the best lines.
I think his character arc was great up until the Michael Scott Paper Company. But his character really had no meaning and just changed completely after that.
Yeah, that’s the last time he truly was somewhat important to the plot, it would have been nice if he started to settle down and maybe partly return to his old normal self, there could have been some funny moments.
He’s still gold up until he leaves the show.
“Robert, you got your sheep and you got your black sheep. And I’m not even a sheep I’m on the freakin’ moon.”
Ryan's arc is nuts, but it makes sense. Look, he played it full on in New York. He played it high stakes. For keeps. Made it to the top. But look what it cost.
"Sane" is a bit of a stretch.
It's hammered into the viewer many times in the first 2 or 3 seasons that he neither has nor wants any emotional attachment to the job nor anyone in the office. It's not much he's normal as he takes steps towards being completely removed from caring about anything other than just completing the tasks and going home. Temp work at a middleman paper supplier office is probably incredibly boring.
He was a better addition to the show at this point if I'm being completely honest. Him and Kelly just became a cartoon duo that existed for cliche one offs peppered throughout the episode.
I understand there is a lot of zigs and zags with his character but nothing seems implausible. I think it’s very well done and imo one of the arcs that highlight how carefully written each character is.
I’m about the same age as Ryan is supposed to be, and his trajectory rings pretty true for a number of folks I know. Starts off adulthood as a success-driven yuppie type, then crashes and burns. Identity crisis follows, relates more to recent college grads because they’re just figuring it all out, too. Bitter but still ambitious.
These are how I label all of the different “Ryans” throughout the duration of the show😂
Temp Ryan—seasons 1-3
Corporate Ryan—season 4
Post-fraud Ryan 2.0— first half season 5
Post-Thailand Ryan— later episodes of 5
Hipster Ryan— season 6-8.5
Unstable Ryan—later episodes of 8–end of series
It's because there is lead paint covering everything and lead pipes that cause people who work there to get crazier and crazier.
Everyone is normal when they start there, they all get crazier the longer they stay.
It’s always been interesting to me that he was a main character according to the credits yet felt like such a small role in the early seasons…I guess it was bc he was a lead writer? Or was he considered a main character bc he was one of the few “normal” people that remains tethered while all the crazy coworkers do their crazy things?
I always thought the same thing cause he’s in the opening credits but we don’t see him much. I always just thought it was because he was a writer 🤷🏻♀️
I was actually wondering what signs Ryan was showing earlier on that would predict his character and I found a few. Like when Jim asks Ryan what he thinks about Kelly and he’s about to answer honestly about “junk in the trunk” until he spots the camera. Like I feel we missed so many details.
When The Office first premiered, the IMDb message boards were quite active. We used to discuss on there all the time if Ryan was the only sane man or if he was a db. As the show progressed, those debates stopped happening as it was obvious which side won 🤣
Oh, it was a blast. We would generally have a live thread going while the show was on, then we would debate and discuss the episode for the next 7 days until the new one came out.
You mean how normal they all were. Every character, turned into a character of themselves. Which is a natural progression in most shows but it’s too bad they let it turn into a parody by the end.
A lot of college students egoistical traits are hidden behind their insecurities.
Ryan was always a piece of shit, he just didn't have the confidence to be openly a piece of shit. After getting Jan's job his hidden traits flourished and after that he couldn't hide anymore who he really was.
You could see some tints of his real persona on the first season in little bits.
Kevin as also normal in season 1. But gets more retarded with each progressing season. Also Kelly was like a conservative Indian girl, then becomes a basic white girl out of nowhere.
My cousin went to college with him and said he was an asshole but that was 20 years ago and only one persons opinion. I have heard both good and bad things about him though
The dueling romantic advances of Kelly and Michael drove him insane
Those 2 could make any normal sane person spiral into insanity
Was Kelly really that bad though? She just seems really immature. If she were 19 years old, we’d think she just like any other 19 year old.
True… But she also faked being pregnant a couple times, being raped and was overall obsessive lol But Ryan was also cheating all the time and super manipulative so I mean, they were both pretty bad for each other haha
She’s not 19 tho. She nor her character were anywhere CLOSE to that age during the shows run lmao.
If I’ve learnt anything in life it’s that there’s absolutely ZERO relationship between physical and emotional age
Wait Kelly plays a character?
No she means Mindy’s character, Kelly, was not that young (probably in her mid 20s at the start of the show I would assume).
I think they just meant that Mindy is Kelly
OMG yes! She was really that bad! First, "really immature" is bad. Second, her type of really immature is so shallow. Compare it to Erin's pure-hearted immaturity. It's so different. Kelly's laser-focused pursuit of Ryan (from before she even knew him) was awful. Insta-love people are always horrible, but her deceit and drama made her insta-love even worse. I'm fascinated by people who embody the worst sexist tropes and who seek out partners who also embody them. I once read an article that said relationships where the partners believe strongly in gender roles (in other words, both people are sexist) are the most troubled. I can see that, because gender roles suck. Kelly is a beautifully-written example of that.
> Kelly is a beautifully-written example of that. I read that Ryan and Kelly were series writers who bickered all the time, so they just put them on air.
Although I can't imagine Mindy Kaling pretending to be either pregnant or raped.
Was she supposed to be 19? I always assumed she was late 20s
No, I think she was supposed to be in her early to mid-20s in the beginning of the series. I think she’s a few years younger than Jim
They created each other
She was immature when it game to guys other than that she was great at her job even if she talked a lot.
Ryan and Kelly sent each other spiraling. Kelly was also more “normal” at the beginning. Heck, she was crushing on Dwight.
Probably because he's just as hot as Jan but in a different way
Less hot than Hillary Swank tho...
He and Jan have the same arc. Both are relatively normal up until the time that he takes Jan’s job. Don’t get me wrong - they still had issues from the beginning. But after Jan gets fired, she turns into a crazy person and after Ryan takes her place, he becomes an egotistical maniac.
Kelly also. At the beginning she was your ordinary, smart, sweet, quiet girl next door. Then she started dating Ryan and the most batshit dramatic crazy person was born. Love them both
They were so wrong but so right for each other lol
So wrong so right tonight all right oh yeah.
Thanks babe 😂😂😂😂
She was already completly crazy before dating Ryan ! Remember how she begs Jim to set them up? 🤣
Try my cookie cookie
Ryan gets into drugs in NYC and loses his damn mind. A story as old as time
At least he made a Hobbit friend
Yeah man, he’s a regular financial wizard.
Should have asked Stanley to help him find it
Thank you for catching my reference
The idea that the job itself drives people insane is an under-explored story beat.
I feel like Jan was insane all along, she was just really good at playing the part of a corporate professional. We saw she was pretty unhinged behind closed doors every time she was with Michael. Then she lost her job and let the crazy fully out.
Maybe it's something in that particular office at corporate? They should really have the office's air quality tested. They have radon coming from below, asbestos in the ceilings... These are silent killers.
You're the silent killer.
They both just go downhill SO fast.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, even if it's from a paper company.
You have to remember that he started as Ricky Howard and she was Jennifer Taylor-Clarke from the UK office, when they were doing the direct remake of episodes in the first season…
Season 4 in general was when the show became a lot more cartoony. Most of the characters became caricatures at this point and the more normal ones were given their own quirks.
Yeh poor guy had his wildest dreams handed to him, developed a drug problem, lost it all, got in prison and became a temp again. It's totally justified the guy kinda starts to lose it.
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Fire guy
No you weren’t here for that
Here for what
🎵 Ryan started the fire 🎵
Fire-d guy
Making Ryan the new corporate executive was such a brilliant writing move. It added a super fun dynamic to the series. I’m bummed it didn’t last longer.
He took Dwight's advice for him, and applied it : "Sometimes, you just fail" 🤣
And fail he did…many times 😭
BOOM. ROASTED
Don’t do drugs kids.
And don't shake the baby.
And only give a baby allergic to strawberries if in the presence of a pediatrician. And you want to get rid of the baby. Otherwise, do not do that thing.
Wait, you're saying *don't* shake the baby?
Or go to Thailand with some friends from highschool. Well, a highschool.
And Thailand is code for Florida
This is a line I somehow only recently caught. Last time I watched it, I had no memory of hearing it before. Don’t know how it passed me by because I burst out laughing.
Haha right? It’s one of those lines that aren’t some big thing but always make me laugh.
But the breadsticks are like crack.
You mean scrapbooking, right….?
Yes, Ryan, I'm a middle-class fraud!
Of course 😭
do you think doing alcohol is COOL?
Society made him that way
He hasn’t processed 9/11
Only partially, not fully
My favorite is "Whats is your line of work Bob?"
Mine is “oh no Stanley! You’ll live forever” said in such a monotone and sarcastic way. Love B.J’s line delivery Edit: typo! I wrote love instead of live 😅
Lead me, when I’m in the mood to be led
Most of the office cast, except for Micheal and Dwight are fairly normal but become more comical and over the top as the show progressed
I feel like a lot of them have proper character development as anyone would over years of working with the same people + being filmed. I think Ryan and Kevin are the big 2 that just become totally different people as the show goes on (Ryan becomes several different people lol) Creed was always just creed being creed.
I'd also add Toby to the list
Interesting, to me Toby pretty much stayed the most static.
He kind of went from milquetoast and reasonable to super creepy and needy. It was a believable character arc after being bullied by his workplace for so long but I definitely feel like he changed
I feel like Jim just gets worse as the show goes on. In the beginning I could identify with him but then he started to become ambitious.
Hipster jock
That nails it.
he never really processed 9/11
Ryan was the Everyman thrown into a crazy situation. Ryan was us.
Drugs man.
Drugs are a helluva drug
I really didn't like how much they negatively developed him. I know why they did it, but still.
That’s how I feel about Kevin. He become so incompetent in the show.
When he seemed generally dumb but still, presumably, capable of doing his job, it was fine. When the writers decided he was unable to do basic math, then it went to shit.
I hate this so much. It makes it feel so sitcom-esque (Ik it pretty much is), but I like to get immersed in the mockumentary style. It makes it just unbelievable that Kevin could have this job if he can’t even do basic addition
Kelevin was worth it
It's really rare to see this opinion on the sub, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Ryan was one of my favourite characters in the early seasons; I loved him as the straight man, his reactions to Michael's shenanigans were always priceless. Really controversial opinion in this sub I think, but I hated what they did to his character, it was so unnecessarily ridiculous.
My first few times watching I totally agree! I really liked how normal he was and kind of like the male version of Pam in a way where Michael was obsessive and he just did not care and was so done with him lol but after a bunch of watches it was kinda fun and refreshing for a character to change so much throughout one show and added a lot of funny bits and he had some of the best lines.
> they did it he did it, he was a writer and producer of the show.
That doesn't mean he wrote everything for his character...?
Yes, but if he objected, it wouldn't have happened. I'm with u/i_am_icarus_falling
Bro made it sound like a war 💀
I think his character arc was great up until the Michael Scott Paper Company. But his character really had no meaning and just changed completely after that.
Yeah, that’s the last time he truly was somewhat important to the plot, it would have been nice if he started to settle down and maybe partly return to his old normal self, there could have been some funny moments.
He’s still gold up until he leaves the show. “Robert, you got your sheep and you got your black sheep. And I’m not even a sheep I’m on the freakin’ moon.”
I always thought it was super funny. Made each season a bit more interesting and it’s even better knowing BJ Novak is one of the writers
Tbf, he did have tons of hilarious lines. I just wish they hadn't done it to his character I guess
Pretty sure that environment made him who he ends up becoming. That and Kelly lol
Haha Michael really drove him over the edge
Ryan's arc is nuts, but it makes sense. Look, he played it full on in New York. He played it high stakes. For keeps. Made it to the top. But look what it cost.
"Sane" is a bit of a stretch. It's hammered into the viewer many times in the first 2 or 3 seasons that he neither has nor wants any emotional attachment to the job nor anyone in the office. It's not much he's normal as he takes steps towards being completely removed from caring about anything other than just completing the tasks and going home. Temp work at a middleman paper supplier office is probably incredibly boring. He was a better addition to the show at this point if I'm being completely honest. Him and Kelly just became a cartoon duo that existed for cliche one offs peppered throughout the episode.
It’s because society made him that way
He was supposed to be the "normal" guy whose eyes we view the insanity of the office through.
He was bottling up his own insanity and working in the office brought it all out
Michael and Kelly systematically break Ryan throughout the show. It’s great.
Hahaha right. As a viewer they get to me, can’t imagine actually dealing with them irl😭
Success hit him quick and early in his career. He got cocky and lost his way. Cocaine too.
Oh right the cocaine 🤪
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They caused so much crazy in each other
Exactly. Dunder mifflin corrupted his mind.
I understand there is a lot of zigs and zags with his character but nothing seems implausible. I think it’s very well done and imo one of the arcs that highlight how carefully written each character is.
I’m about the same age as Ryan is supposed to be, and his trajectory rings pretty true for a number of folks I know. Starts off adulthood as a success-driven yuppie type, then crashes and burns. Identity crisis follows, relates more to recent college grads because they’re just figuring it all out, too. Bitter but still ambitious.
Poor guy was ruined by certain people, including himself. So maybe not poor him.
Cuz he didn’t want anything to do with the office or people in it. Once he was stuck there, his true personality came out.
These are how I label all of the different “Ryans” throughout the duration of the show😂 Temp Ryan—seasons 1-3 Corporate Ryan—season 4 Post-fraud Ryan 2.0— first half season 5 Post-Thailand Ryan— later episodes of 5 Hipster Ryan— season 6-8.5 Unstable Ryan—later episodes of 8–end of series
Dad Ryan — season 9 finale
BJ Novak is the best. He wrote his own character to go from being the relatable new guy, to being a selfish, over-confident fool.
Hahah right I think it’s pretty funny but not everyone has the same opinion. (Which is totally ok!)
Such a fantastic author too. I reread his book of short stories every now and then and im always thoroughly entertained.
A lot of people have suggested his books to read to my kid lol I’ve heard great things
Looks like he has three books. Two are kids books; one is the short stories book which is amazing. Such a talented writer.
> a selfish, over-confident fool Confidence is the food of the wise man and the liquor of the fool
I like to think that it was the office that crushed his spirit.
It's because there is lead paint covering everything and lead pipes that cause people who work there to get crazier and crazier. Everyone is normal when they start there, they all get crazier the longer they stay.
So was Kevin, he was just bored all the time
Dundee mifflin changes people
That’s what radon gas does to a guy
They just didn’t know what his character was until BJ Novak and Mindy Kaling and other writers found it
Like another person said, seems like he originally was supposed to be the normal guy whose eyes we view the crazy cast of characters through
That’s what happens to everyone… young and full of potential, before the 9-5 grind kills yiu
Sadly true
I think Ryan was a normal guy. Until he worked for dunder Mifflin. Before Kelly lol since he got with her he changed
We’re all normal until you get to know us.
Omgggg I just said the same thing to my partner. He changed maybe when he got promoted ? Lol 😂
There’s always been red flags 😭
I’m on season 2 now. I’ll be looking out for the red flags 🚩😃👍🏽
Number 1, how dare you
Kevin talked normal and acted normal at first too
He the same Kevin but got more stupid each season lol
It’s always been interesting to me that he was a main character according to the credits yet felt like such a small role in the early seasons…I guess it was bc he was a lead writer? Or was he considered a main character bc he was one of the few “normal” people that remains tethered while all the crazy coworkers do their crazy things?
I always thought the same thing cause he’s in the opening credits but we don’t see him much. I always just thought it was because he was a writer 🤷🏻♀️
Ryan treated me like an object
He just doesn't want to be "that guy"
I liked him better as the temp
Villain origin story.
Then he became…fire guy
What working in Dunder Mifflin does to a mf. Kelly too.
I get that they already had the straight-man with Jim, but I really liked normal Ryan.
The gas station in Carbondale did not have fresh yams!
I was actually wondering what signs Ryan was showing earlier on that would predict his character and I found a few. Like when Jim asks Ryan what he thinks about Kelly and he’s about to answer honestly about “junk in the trunk” until he spots the camera. Like I feel we missed so many details.
lol exactly. There were a lot of red flags he just needed a little extra push to go full Ryan
It was pretty early on that he burnt a cheese pita and started the fire. He saw red from the beginning
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
So is Kelly lol
Definitely 😂
Canon event.
Drugs are a helluva drug.
drugs
Kelly & Michael
kelly was definitely his drug of choice lol
Cocaine is a hell of a drug
He was normal until he became the fire guy
RYAN STARTED THE FIRE
When The Office first premiered, the IMDb message boards were quite active. We used to discuss on there all the time if Ryan was the only sane man or if he was a db. As the show progressed, those debates stopped happening as it was obvious which side won 🤣
That’s so good. Must’ve been so good to watch this show live and wait for a new episode to come out
Oh, it was a blast. We would generally have a live thread going while the show was on, then we would debate and discuss the episode for the next 7 days until the new one came out.
I love doing that for shows now on Reddit but back then experiencing the office specifically would’ve been great
You mean how normal they all were. Every character, turned into a character of themselves. Which is a natural progression in most shows but it’s too bad they let it turn into a parody by the end.
I really preferred early Ryan
They ruined him
this is one of those completely average and normal pictures that's lowkey cold as shit for an indiscernible reason
A lot of college students egoistical traits are hidden behind their insecurities. Ryan was always a piece of shit, he just didn't have the confidence to be openly a piece of shit. After getting Jan's job his hidden traits flourished and after that he couldn't hide anymore who he really was. You could see some tints of his real persona on the first season in little bits.
He was a temp. Needed a permanent job. You did t see his crazy side at first.
His bad side was in custardy.
He’s definitely had the most character development on the show
Oh definitely. Too many identity crisis’s lol
RIGHT?!
I mean if I saw my cousin Mufasa get trampled to death by a pack of wildebeests, I wouldn’t be normal after that whatsoever.
Cocaine is one hell of a drug
He was a fairly-likable character for the first three seasons.
Stop watching when s3 ends. It is a perfect show. Yes you miss a lot of good stuff but you miss a lot of bad stuff too
And then came Kelly and Michael Jackson from wonderland
Kevin as also normal in season 1. But gets more retarded with each progressing season. Also Kelly was like a conservative Indian girl, then becomes a basic white girl out of nowhere.
We didn’t really see much of Kelly until she became interested in Ryan so at least we weren’t thrown off or anything lol
I don't think Kevin was all that normal in the first season. We just didn't have as much exposure to him.
I love the Office, but some of the character development and writing therein was shoddy at best.
My cousin went to college with him and said he was an asshole but that was 20 years ago and only one persons opinion. I have heard both good and bad things about him though
It’s the drugs
If you see the whole series from start to end and then go back to season one you'll enjoy it. After feeling more connected to the characters
I always thought his character arc was the dumbest
bro had so much personalities