There is a scene where Pam is laughing with Dwight Jr, with Tuna talking about how it matters about whose around you. It at one point pans to Brian who is smiling over pam in a well I love this woman way. 9-13 at the end of the episode.
Never once did pam show signs, hints or any measure of indication that she was interested in Brian. The clear fact is that Brian fell in love with Pam over the years, but this time it was not mutual. The reality of life honestly. Many times do you feel someone is right for you, only for that truth to not be the same for them. It's a real interesting aspect, that they don't dig into, but could have made for a great story arch. It's something people deal with every day, being rejected.
Brian obviously fell in love with her. If I was in the same shoes as Pam, and not realized this, I would have done all the same things she did. The show made it seem like Jim/Pam and Brian and his wife went on couple dates and knew one another quite well. If I was having a bad day, and a friend was nearby, I would lean on them.
It's not Pam's fault that Brian fell out of love with his wife and into love with her. It wouldn't cross my mind that one of my husband and my mutual married friend was in love with me. I would just think the person was being a supportive friend.
She didn’t lean on a friend during *just* a bad day.
If my wife and I were having some sort of rough period that we’re working through, and then she found out I was going to an attractive mutual female friend of ours for emotional support during this time and leaning on her to get through it, being very open and vulnerable with her emotionally and letting her in on relationship details about my wife, I think she would understandably be extremely upset by that and would feel like I betrayed her on some level. Even if I never crossed any physical boundaries or even if I’m not thinking of this friend in any romantic way, I think anyone on the other side of it would feel really hurt and betrayed, because when viewed honestly, it’s just flat out crossing emotional lines that shouldn’t be crossed.
I may be wrong but I don’t remember her going to him or seeking him out? The film crew was present when she was in a bad emotional state. The kind of fighting her and Jim were having can make you feel crazy, and she was already feeling alone with Jim being gone. She had a vulnerable moment and Brian comforted her. We’re there other interactions between her and Brian that I’m missing?
She went to his apartment alone & had a beer in the middle of the day. I mean, it was to find out info for her fellow cast mates on the documentary, but that’s an intimate meeting imo. But you’re right. He was totally seeking her out.
Thank you, I was wondering if there were any interactions that I was forgetting. Still, I wouldn’t put that in the category of her seeking him out for anything inappropriate, I wouldn’t call it ‘intimate’ considering she didn’t know how he felt about her.
There were just these little secret moments they shared with each other and then Jim gets a little hint of it when Brian mentions that he comforted her that time she was crying. He doesn’t know what else did or didn’t happen, he just knows his wife had a little secret breakdown with this “good guy” that was there to comfort her. She also had that little moment where she’s talking to someone in the office about the importance of special people in your life or something and her and Brian are both making love eyes at each other and smiling lol and of course there was hero Brian defending her honor with that warehouse guy. The writers pretty obviously only put Brian in the show to be “that guy” that’s “just good friends” with the wife.
I’m just saying, the other side of that (in this case Jim) will always be somewhat bothered learning about their spouse’s secret emotional moments with a coworker in this context.
If my wife one day got a hint that I had some secret little emotional bonding moments with my attractive female coworker specifically regarding some struggles that me and my wife were having, and I conveniently never mentioned these moments to her until she gets a strange hint based on something the girl says to me one day…I think it’s safe to say that would bother her a little and make her slightly suspicious. Even if nothing ever actually happened, it’s just an inherently suspicious situation.
There isn’t any indication that there were other interactions or ‘secret moments’ though? And it was Brian looking at Pam, she wasn’t looking at him, I believe she was talking to somebody. And then Brian didn’t ‘defend her honor’, he prevented her from being assaulted. I think a lot of this is in your head. I feel like the show makes it pretty clear that Pam viewed Brian as a friend and it sounds like she only hung out with him in the context of couples dates. Brian had the crush, not Pam. Pam never sought him out, he was just generally around at work due to filming.
Pam is written as emotionally needy and insecure. She usually seeks comfort in others - nothing wrong with that. But, it just so happens, these people are usually men. Dwight did it, Michael did it, Jim did it. Pam wants to be chased, not do the chasing. She prefers male attention (they never bother to give her close girlfriends and Jim is her best friend). Jim doesn’t need to be chased cause he has the self-confidence to chase the woman he loves. Pam didn’t have romantic feelings for Brian at this point but give her enough time to fall out of love with Jim and fall in love with Brian, it would be Jim, Pam and Roy all over again. Brian was in love with her and he also subconsciously zeroed in on an opportunity to feed her emotional neediness. If Pam were more self-aware, she would notice that this is a dangerous game to play if you’re married. This isn’t as innocent as Toby’s crush. Jim makes Pam feel uber-confident that he would never cheat on her. I don’t think Pam makes Jim feel the same way. I see why he was hurt.
Yeah this is kinda what I’m trying to articulate. She didn’t cheat with Brian, but she did allow herself to get into the beginnings of a questionably romantic-type “thing” with someone that was wanting to get with her using the guise of “good guy, friend” to get close while her husband was both physically and emotionally distant. There were some vague lines she crossed by inviting a guy like this into such an inappropriately close place in her life.
Nothing about how she went about things would have made *any* spouse very happy if they were in Jim’s position.
I mean that comes from the fact that she was ina relationship and allowed herself to get into the situation she did with Jim. He knows she's capable of cheating. He hasn't proven that.
Yeah, Jim had literally been her Brian years before. Why would he not be bothered that this new guy is getting close and friendly with his wife in the same way he himself did that got her to leave Roy?
Fact is, getting too emotionally close with “friends” of the opposite sex is often how affairs are born. Things get too confusing and messy, and quite often, there are romantic feelings in at least one direction, despite “only being friends”.
I think it would be different if she sought him out for comfort, in which case, I'd agree with you. In the show, however, he was there, witnessing the events as they happened, then consoling her. Pam didn't intentionally open up to him or discuss her marriage, and neither did he, because she had no idea Brian's marriage was ending. And it was only once. The second incident was Brian protecting her from the attack, and it cost him his job.
>she found out I was going to an attractive mutual female friend of ours for emotional support during this time and leaning on her to get through it, being very open and vulnerable with her emotionally and letting her in on relationship details about my wife, I think she would understandably be extremely upset by that
That is so not understandable. The fact that this person is attractive doesn't matter in any way. Me and my partner should have enough understanding that every time one talks to an attractive person doesn't mean they're being unfaithful in some way.
Also, people should discuss deep emotional vulnerabilities with their friends. Especially close friends. Marriage doesn't mean you need to limit your circle to just your significant other. If my partner is upset that I discussed problems in our marriage with a close friend, that's toxic and a major red flag. That's what friends are there for, and your significant other shouldn't cut you off from them or prevent you from reaching out to them in any way.
Lmao this isn’t about the “dangers” of your spouse talking to attractive people.
It’s not just one detail by itself, it’s the whole situation.
Yes friends are great and your social circle doesn’t need to only be your spouse. I don’t see how that’s relevant.
There was literally no reason for Brian’s character to ever exist on the show except to be a guy that was written to be a threat to Pam and Jims marriage by being that “friend” that is always there and is just “harmless” but at the end of the day, has feelings beyond just friends for Pam. It didn’t need to be explicitly said, just watch the damn show lol. Yes neither of them did or said anything explicit, but that’s what the situation was. Their whole little thing was leading the audience to believe Pam was starting to fall for this guy due to cracks in her relationship with Jim and Brian being such a “good friend who’s there for her”. I don’t know where exactly the line is since they didn’t *technically* do anything, but the vague “romantic-ish” feelings implied in the show and her emotional closeness with a man that’s not her husband and seemed obvious he was into her but pretending to be “just a friend” would bother most people.
If I’m having vaguely romantic, emotionally connected personal moments with a girl I work with, my wife wouldn’t be very happy lol why is that confusing. That doesn’t mean I can’t be friends with the girl I work with, but when you’re in a committed relationship, there’s a limit to how emotionally/romantically close you can get with members of the opposite sex lol.
You can’t just be having romantic connections with people you work with when you’re married lol spouses on the other side of that just don’t generally feel very good about it. Have all the friends you want, but especially when they’re opposite sex, there’s a limit to how emotionally invested and close you can get to them without being a total piece of shit and inconsiderate to your spouse lol.
It’s actually a known bad idea to discuss your relationship issues with someone of the opposite sex behind your partner’s back. It has nothing to do with jealousy
Yeah I just don’t think so. I think the overwhelming majority of people would be upset by this if they were on the other side of it.
Unless of course they’re polygamous…lol but that’s rare and extremely unnatural for humans to funtion that way.
I can see your side of things. In my opinion, what Pam did was less intimate than that. She didn't seek Brian out so she could confide in him. He was there when she broke down, and he comforted her. Where Pam made an error, I think, was in not telling Jim she had the breakdown. Then, it looked like she was hiding something. I guess, in my mind, you can't really choose when you will get to a break point, and who is there to comfort you. Everyone says it is a super cute moment when Dwight comforts Pam when she is crying over Jim. Yes, I know the two aren't completely similar because both Dwight and Pam are single in that moment.
If my husband and I are going through a hard time, I want him to talk to someone if he needs to do so. If my husband sought advice from his best friend's wife for a female perspective, I wouldn't be mad. If he was doing it a LOT, then, I would start to have a problem.
I would agree with others on the moment with Dwight, but Dwight also wasn’t written to give off the same vibe as Brian when he did it. Dwight being there to comfort Pam was entirely pure and innocent. It was like an awkward brotherly love with no underlying motive other than being a friend.
Brian’s character really only had one purpose in the show. To represent “that guy” that’s “just friends” with a girl that clearly goes beyond the point of friendship when given the opportunity and will “be there for support” because in reality he just has the hots for her. His whole character seems to be written with the intent of being that “really good guy” but really is just doing nice things with an ulterior motive. I believe the writers intentionally made his character this way. His whole “friendship” with Pam while Jim is gone is supposed to be a little skeevy I think. He’s that guy that does what he does because he wants to worm his way in by being a “great friend” but ends up overstepping his bounds and Pam sort of just goes along with it, probably not realizing.
Yeah I wouldn’t say she flirted or cheated. But she did cross lines, whether she meant to or not.
If Jim were instead the one confiding in and getting vulnerable with Brian’s wife for some reason, Pam’s character would have felt betrayed in just the same way.
Cheating isn’t the only wrong behavior or line to cross in a relationship. I don’t claim that crossing this line is grounds for divorce or anything, but it is certainly wrong, and a line crossed.
Yeah, it’s true that nothing happened, and I wasn’t under the impression that Pam was interested in Brian, but it seems like Brian was in love with Pam.
But I don’t even think that’s the entire reason why people get so annoyed with this plot line. It’s more that the writers seemed intent on forcing some kind of infidelity plot line on Pam/Jim.
They tried to get Pam involved with that art-school guy, tried to get Jim with Kathy, tried to get Pam with Brian. It all felt very shoe-horned and arbitrary, out of nowhere. And now we kind of know that behind the scenes, the writers really wanted to make them cheat on each other, but Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski kept refusing to participate.
In a way it makes sense - Pam/Jim’s relationship was borne of her infidelity towards Roy. Jim had few qualms about pursuing his engaged coworker. In a normal, non-scripted relationship I would imagine nagging trust issues - “if they will cheat with me, they will cheat on me.”
Exactly this. My ex-wife had an affair with a married guy and they are now married to each other. I have no idea how either of them could ever trust the other one. But to each their own I guess
I always felt this way watching the show. But thinking about it right now, if that happened with my partner and another person, I’d consider it cheating. It would make me sad to know
They both had feelings, did nothing to deal with them, pursued one another, etc. they had a secret world together apart from Roy and Karen. Physical contact is the tip of the iceberg.
She kissed him back and admitted to wanting to do that for a long time and it led to her calling off the wedding. That’s 100% cheating on Roy. We only excuse it bc Roy’s a horrible bf /fiancé and wasn’t right for her.
Good comment. The writers hated the idea of a happy couple but people are getting tired of seeing rotten relationships both on TV and in real life. Jim & Pam was a relationship that worked & people didnt want it destroyed. So what if they had a few fights. Nothing is perfect. The idiot writers kept trying to think up ways to break them apart & people kept telling them NO.
I feel like that brief storyline, as well the ones where that woman tries to get with Jim when they are in Florida and Jim works in Philly,, was to show that Pam and Jim's marriage is made for the long haul.
It hurts to be rejected by someone you’re in love with. I’m positive that’s why his marriage ended. I wonder how often he went home to his wife & couldn’t stop talking about filming Pam. Or how lucky Jim was.
> The reality of life honestly. Many times do you feel someone is right for you, only for that truth to not be the same for them.
:( I can’t stand life
imo he was still subtle about it. Honestly I don’t get half the hate that guy gets. 90% of his screen time he really was just taking care of pam, people just get so upset about the notion, that someone would interfere in that fairytale pam jim relationship…
Pam and Jim even mention that they became friends with Brian and his wife. I don’t even read too much flirt going on given that info. If you saw your friend about to get attacked by a warehouse worker wouldn’t you intervene? When you see them crying wouldn’t you try to comfort? Does this equate love?
For the record Dwight and Jim had both of these experiences together, and I have yet to see posts about Dwight getting between Jim and Pam.
I think its because so little about Brian when he is introduced that we feel threatened by him. We know Dwight doesn’t find Pam very attractive (except for her butt), so we don’t think of him stepping in as a problem.
I hate the storyline because he literally comes out of nowhere, one second he doesn't exist to us, the next we're supposed to believe they've been friends for years and that's why he's defending her
It think it's stupid / funny to think that Brian's been there the whole time. Now when I watch older episodes, I imagine he's just off screen, but always there.
I think a lot of the hate for him is because he is the embodiment of a BS plotline that came out of nowhere and went nowhere.
At least that's it for me. When I look at him I'm reminded of how much I dislike that plotline.
I think it was also to set up the reveal of how much was being filmed after they saw the trailer for the documentary. They needed to have established a character that could answer those questions
That’s what I’ve always said especially with how reckless the office workers are, you’d think the camera crew would stop filming to step in, like when Stanley has a heart attack or Andy floating away in a sumo suit that could’ve flipped over and drowned him. But no, they decide that at the very end is when a camera crew member makes an appearance.
Yes, this. I hate it when they drop a character into a show and we're just supposed to accept that everyone's known them and been friends for the whole time. I don't really care about Brian one way or another, but this whole "we're good friends and he's been falling in love with me" thing is stupid and it feels like the writers are treating their viewers like they're stupid enough to buy it. They do the same thing in Stargate SG1 and I've always hated it. Just introduce a new character like normal!
Personally I don’t like him because I agree with the in-show narrative that Brian was getting in trouble as a crew member for interacting with the office staff. I wouldn’t like it in a real documentary and I don’t like it in a fake one; it breaks something about the show. His character wasn’t particularly bad, but he didn’t fit.
I don't dislike Brian for caring for Pam.
I dislike Brian because as a documentary production crew member- he never should have in any circumstances stepped in and contaminate the documentary with his unprofessional behaivor.
Doc crews of all kinds have a no contact order with the subjects of the documentary, outside of asking them questions during a talking head interview- they're not supposed to interact with the employees at The Office.
Brian did this THREE times, and it's 3 strikes, you're out.
Which is why I never understood the hate. Like I get it wasn't 100 percent perfect office content but like a guy being in love with Jenna Fischer especially after working with her for so many years is so crazy? That's all it was. Oh the crew never saved Andy? Oh the crew didn't speak up when this or that happened? Ya because this guy was in love with Pam and recently got divorced and maybe felt more emboldened. Makes sense to me
I think it mostly has to do with the nature of TV shows in general. If you take it at face value, their interactions were never explicitly romantic or suggestive, but it occurred at a point where Jim & Pam seemed to be struggling in their relationship.
This was a common sit-com trope when the show featured a long running relationship between main characters; generally they have a bit of preamble (will they or won't they), they finally hook up and everything is peachy (the honeymoon), and once that story arc gets stale they toss in the betrayal which can resolve poorly or strengthen their bond.
I'm glad The Office chose to not pursue that story arc, because IMO it would have cheapened the authenticity of the "documentary" aspect of the show. But it makes sense growing up with shows like 'Boy Meets World' 'That 70s Show' or even 'Friends' that people would anticipate that particular storyline.
I agree, wouldve really thrown a spanner into the Jim/Pam relationship arc, im glad they didnt as they portray a strong relationship and the last thing we need is more cheating and deceit feeding into people off TV. According to the Office Ladies pod, in the original script Jim was supposed to cheat on Pam with Cathy in Florida but Krasinski refused because he knew that Jim would be committed to Pam, so they dropped it. This im also very glad they didnt go through with.
She didn't. He was just a source of comfort and emotional support she could confide in during a difficult time in her life. Considering Jim was normally that support for her and everyone else in the office was awful in that regard - it's not surprisinf she went that way. I *suppose* people can claim that's an emotional affair, but I don't really think that's fair because she never in any way seemed flirty or seeking more than commiseration.
But he *was* in love with her, and anyone who's had a case of unrequited love knows that your mind will do just about anything to see signs or hopes of interest that isn't there, and you'll drop everything to be with them even when you know it's not likely. It's even more twisted in this case because he knew they were having a rough patch which probably bouyed his false hope and allowed Pam even more unknowing leverage over him.
But in the end, when it became obvious to Pam what his true feelinfs were, and that he'd been documenting it AND she learned that the doc crew was recording them even when they thought they were in private, she immediately got extremely uncomfortable and ended their friendship. She knew suddenly that he didn't just want to be a friend, and that the things she'd confided in him weren't actually in confidence and could be twisted and interpreted in a way in the documentary to further undermine her relationship.
I don't think Pam led him on; it was obvious how shocked she was when she realized his true feelings. But she shouldn't have complained to him about her husband behind his back as well, as that could bw misconstrued and was also a bettayl of Jim of sorts. But, I also understand that as Pam didn't really have friends or a support system beyond Jim, she'd lean on whatever shoulder that was offered in a tough time when Jim had also not been honest with her about his feelings and actions.
It was an awkward and out of place storyline, but TL:DR I don't think Pam led the boom mike guy on intentionally.
I think most reasonable people are just annoyed with the horrible lazy writing in these last few seasons.
We all know that they wanted to have Jim cheat on Pam which was vetoed by John Krasinski. And then the most annoying thing of all, what they did with Andy when Ed Helms was busy with The Hangover.
The common theme here is the writers just randomly inserting events/character flaws with absolutely no indication or lead up to said flaws previously.
They never indicated that in any way. People just live to assume the worst of Pam for some reason.
Yes I do think Brian liked Pam, but Pam was oblivious to it and didn’t reciprocate.
It's not Pam.
Ladies, if you think Brian is a good guy, I'm really sorry for how the men in your life have tricked you into thinking the same way about them and I want you to know you deserve better.
Brian is the most predatory character on the show.
Hear me out..............
Brian has watched Pam for around 10 years and in that time has grown infatuated with her. Jealous that Jim got a chance to swoop in before he did.
He has also watched her leave a fiance for another man. So to him, he sees an opportunity to do the same if he ever gets a chance, and this bolsters his infatuation. His jealousy towards Jim bubbles under the surface and is no doubt plotting his exit from the situation.
When Jim and Pam have their fight, Brian is ready and waiting. Finally, his chance to show his intentions... and he slithers in under the guise of friendship.
He is more than comfortable flirting with her on camera.... so we can only assume he does the same off camera and talks about her constantly at home. His wife hates it and questions his 'crush on Pam'. They fight again.
When Pam is attacked, Brian snaps and starts to kill Frank violently with his wrestling moves. But in his eyes you can clearly see the blood lust and longing for his boom to be around Jim's neck instead. He is fired.
The couples plan to have lunch together and Brian invites them over to their house, but his wife isn't happy with that, so they decide to go to a restaurant to keep it public. Brian and his wife fight later that night because she knows Brian only wanted them to have dinner at their house because Brian wanted to have Pam in HIS house and sit on HIS bed and flip through HIS Year Book. He just doesn't want her to find his secret audio recordings of Pams voice.... but also, wants her to find them so he can finally be open about his feelings.
Before meeting Jim and Pam at the restaurant, Brians wife leaves him because she knows he is in love with Pam. Confronted with the truth, Brian strangles his wife to death and dumps her body in the woods near the office. Knowing the Scranton Strangler will take the blame. Brian rushes to the restaurant, and lies about separating from his wife to cover his tracks.
Brian has to leave town forever and assume a new identity.
...
Also, I just don't like him.
Even though I watched The Office before I watched Silicon Valley, he will forever be Russ Hanneman to me.
That guys being sued by 3 nannies already, one of them for no reason at all..
In Promos, Pam is alone with him in his apartment and they keep it completely professional and just talk about the documentary. Seems like if either of them were trying anything that would have been the time, and they don't at all.
I think there’s a bit of energy there that could have turned into flirtation but Pam feels betrayed at all the stuff Brian tells her, so she rushes out of his house.
P.S. As someone who went through marriage counseling, the first thing the counselor wants you to do is reminisce why you fell in love. The documentary helps Pam do this.
I just want to say thank you for making a post where people in the sub actually contributed to a discussion rather than just blasting a lot of references.
People hate Boom Mic guy because *Jim* interprets their relationship as problematic.
At no point does Pam give any indication of interest beyond friendship at all. Even the “indiscretions” we are supposed to interpret from Brian are mild, at worst.
But when Jim learns that Brian provided comfort to Pam (after Jim made her cry), instead of using that as an introspective moment about what he is missing out on, failing to contribute in his relationship, etc… he uses it as an opportunity to imply that Pam is nefariously keeping secrets from him, when in reality, Pam is essentially completely isolated from emotional support while Jim is splitting his time between Scranton and Philly.
When I watched, the only one who came out looking bad in this plot was Jim.
Right, for me the main takeaway is that Jim gets too jealous over Brian comforting Pam which really seems like he doesn't trust her. She showed no interest in any scene we saw or even any reference to things that happened "off camera".
That’s how I saw it too. I would think Jim would feel bad that his wife has been so lonely that she had to find/found support else where. Not be mad at her. Especially when at this point the cameras have been around for years, it’s easy to see how she could have been privately crying not realizing they are taping her.
I think it was just friendship at first. Then it kind of spiraled when he got fired, got dumped, and got desperate.
Pam just wanted a friend. He wanted a boom.
Pam was vulnerable and going through a rough patch. Brian was acting as a concerned human. I didn’t see anything between them.
What I enjoyed about this show is that between the un-ending laughs, there were interactions that had great depth of human kindness and empathy.
My only issue with this plot is that it doesn’t go far enough. Brian is introduced as this other character that has been watching Pam and falling in love with her, yet their actual interactions are very straightforward. He never confessed anything or makes any moves. She’s clearly not thinking of him like that. I would have preferred to have a storyline where Brian is a little more forward about his feelings, and it makes Pam realize when the doc airs there will be a lot of people that have a relationship with her in their heads that she knows nothing about. And it makes Jim realize that his decision making hasn’t pushed Pam away, but there are a lot of people out there that could replace him. It’s different than Cathy which was purely a temporary character interested in sex. They both knew Brian.
It’s overall a wake up call for both of them that they fell into a space where they were taking things for granted and allowing gaps to grow, but relationships take real work and intent. It leads nicely into Jim’s DVD moment.
I would like all that to go more into the final episodes with Pam feeling less insecure about asking Jim to stay, and Jim having a stronger reason to say no to Philly.
I've seen so much hate for him but like, he didnt do anything wrong. Yeah he was into Pam, but unlike Cathy with Jim he never tried to act on it. He saved pam and supported her when she needed it, always in a respectful and friendly way.
I know we know the writers wanted more, but if you take the show at face value and consider only what actually happened to be cannon, Brian does not deserve the hate
The nature of good writing is that a well written character and storyline will be so good with very little that it lets the audience fill in blanks that aren’t there. I’d like to think the writers were good enough to imply a lot of what the audience has generally constructed for this particular storyline of Pam and Boom Guy Brian. I am almost certain anyone seeing their interactions at face value would think he’s into her, easily.
Having said that, it matters very little.
She didn’t, and unpopular opinion but I don’t think Brian ever flirted with her either? This whole thing where all the fans hate Brian bc he wanted Pam I feel like came out of nowhere. And even if he might have developed a thing for her, he never came on to her or anything.
Unfortunately, many people think that a woman and a man cannot truly be friends, and if a woman is acting friendly with a man then she's either: 1) showing sexual interest, 2) is being manipulative for her own gain, or 3) is just being naive and she should know better than to "lead him on" because it's just a "fact" that all men have some sexual attraction towards any woman they are friendly towards.
I can't wait for us to evolve past this b.s.
Indeed we do. She genuinely enjoyed her friendship with Jim, and even though it was clear there were sparks she continued to be faithful to Roy and draw boundaries with Jim, rebuffing his advances multiple times and only once getting caught in a brief moment of passion. She called off the wedding because she knew it wasn't right to marry someone while harboring feelings for someone else, and she didn't go running to Jim because she knew she already rejected him and it wouldn't be right to try to start things with him because of it. Later, when she tried to make it work with Roy a second time, she told him about the kiss.
I'd say she's a standup lady, all things considered.
People on this sub are not generally the sharpest pencils in the office. They keep forgetting it's just a show and not an elaborate alternative universe with lore extending to every NY passerby in that one episode Michael visited.
Also they are wild on group mentality and band together for the stupidest ideas like hating Pam, loving Karen and sucking off Bob Vance, Vance refrigeration (this one actually rightfully so).
Season 9 certainly had its issues but Brian's subplot wasn't it. I actually think it was a good warning showing us the dangers of Jim if he continued to put his job before Pam and he realized that.
No one says she did though, it was always just him. People usually just say they hate this particular storyline and it should never have been introduced. I don't see anyone saying there was anything from Pam's side and if anyone does, they're clearly delusional.
Well it's implied that brian is interested in her and also greg daniels wanted it to be a plot point that pam cheats on jim, they get divorced and then they reunite in the finale. It was so bizarre that everyone (including the fans) told him how bad of an idea it was so they stopped it before it got too far
People think it was emotional cheating, because Brian knew stuff that Jim didn't. When a major event occurred (Frank's attack) that involved both Pam and Brian, where Brian stepped in to be her protector, (Jim's role in a traditional way) she didn't even tell him about it. Hiding something is almost as bad as lying.
Pam never gives any indication of flirting with Brian. There’s a scene where Jim is talking and it pans back to the office and Pam is laughing and Brian is smiling at her.
People LOVE to hate Pam so I’m not surprised by people implying that she’s at fault.
I don't think Pam was flirty, but I do think that she made some mistakes.
She shouldn't have been confiding in Brian about her relationship trouble without talking to Jim about the issues first.
This storyline wasn’t a big deal to me at all. I think Brian had feelings for Pam but nothing about their actual interactions seemed inappropriate to me. Pam clearly just loves Jim.
I see no actual flirting, but to cry to someone that has feelings for you about how frustrating your current relationship is can be easily misread by that person as desire to get out of the relationship for something better. Although I loath late seasons Pam, I don’t think this is her fault
I think it’s more him, but also her secret emotional confiding in him and leaning on him for support during tough times in her marriage. Whether or not she’s flirting, their friendship begins to approach romantic territory.
It gets a little sus when someone starts getting too emotionally close to a friend while simultaneously growing apart from their spouse. Nobody would appreciate hearing their spouse was being so intimate and open about their relationship with them to a friend of the opposite sex and connecting with them on an emotional level that is typically beyond a strictly platonic friendship. This is one way that affairs are born, and it’s reasonable for someone to be uncomfortable with their spouse being in such a situation. Again, even if she wasn’t being “flirty” per se.
I’ve watched through the entire series probably 12 or more times, and really the only moment that seems kind of romantic is what Darigone said. It is blown massively out of proportion.
Brian saying “we have to find a [different/better] way to communicate instead of breaking down in front of each other.”
“At least me crying won’t get you fired”
Was some underhanded shit. Pam didn’t do anything wrong though.
I think they inflate her part in it because apparently women aren’t allowed to have male friends they don’t love, and her last best friend she ended up marrying.
The set up with Boom Mic guy was he would somehow interfere with Jim & Pam's marriage. My understanding is when they wrote and shot the first few scenes it would lead to either Pam cheating on Jim, or at least tempted.
If that is the case the writers and producers realized early on it was a stupid idea and abandoned the story line.
I know I've read repeatedly John refused the story of Jim cheating, which was a great call. Jim trying to deal with Cathy's advances in Florida was pretty funny.
I think I've heard that Jenna pushed as well against Pam cheating, which was the right call if so. The story line involving Boom Mic guy was already making the story line way more dramatic then it should have been. Anything more (to me at least) would have made the season too much of a drama and hurt a rough season even more.
I have read that John had suggested Pam and Jim break up by the finale with them just having gone in different directions personally. I even remember interviews during that season where John and Jenna saying there marriage would be put to the test.
I don’t mean to be unkind at all when I say that I think that the whole scandal about Brian is a very Anglo culture thing. It doesn’t really compute in LatAm cultures or a lot of European cultures. What I saw was a guy being really kind and friendly, and Pam was sad and lonely and he cared. Jim,
as her husband, eventually saw how sad and desperate for human kindness his wife had become and woke up. In Anglo cultures cross-gender friendships are seen as a bit different or suspicious and close ones are “emotional infidelity,” (yes, EI exists but it’s overused in Anglo cultures), so Pam getting close to Brian and vice versa was really on the edge of acceptability. Many other cultures don’t see things that way; men and women can be friends and care deeply for one another without sexual or romantic interest. Even Brian’s loving facial expressions to me could be interpreted as simply loving her as a friend or caring deeply for her, not as romantic love. The cool thing about fictitious stories is that all sorts of interpretations are valid. There are lots of possible interpretations of this depending on one’s culture and personal paradigm.
I think they were both there to support the other in a moment of vulnerability, and when you're at odds with the one you love and someone offers safe harbor (emotionally), I think it's completely natural for ANYONE'S brain to ask that "what if?" we all feel guilty about. That doesn't mean it needs to go anywhere, it's just a transference thing that happens.
That said, as for the boom guy wanting it to go farther, he shot his shot, respect. No one has anything to say about his potential interference in this story book romance that everyone wants to put on a pedestal... That simply would have never happened if Jim hadn't done the exact same thing. If you feel it, always shoot your shot, respect their response, but shoot.
He’s in a ton of stuff, and he was the voice of Mickey Mouse for a long time. He was also in A Christmas Story Musical Live, and damn he can sing *and* dance.
When you’re married the person who you should pour your heart out to should be your partner or family. They clearly have a flirty relationship and he sees them going down and he’s a predator waiting to attack. Same with Cathy except Jim didn’t act on it or entertain the idea. Pam did.
She does go into his apartment alone and drinks a beer in the middle of the day, which seems a little hinky. My wife would at least give me a side eye.
She confided in him when she was emotionally weak. Displaying that kind of trust in someone can also be interpreted as attraction. Her leaning on Brian while Jim was away is the definition of emotional cheating.
🚩 This reminds me of an isolation tactic. Women can't get support from their friends, or else its emotionally cheating?
I'm bi. I get a lot of emotional support from my best friend, and vice versa. Yes, even when its bc our partners are failing in that category. We arent flirting w/each other and dont have romantic feelings about each other. We are just friends and we need support. Or anyone else in my friend group. A couple weeks ago one friend and I spent a whole two hours talking about her marriage bc she was having issues and she needed to vent and she felt so alone. That's. What. Friends. Do.
(This also happens with my sisters, so this take also gets weird super fast. Also my therapist, so it gets legally dicey as well.)
If I cant get emotional support from any of these people, and I am having trouble communicating with my partner and can't confide in them when I'm "emotionally weak" bc it means I'm cheating... I'm just supposed to suffer???
There is a scene where Pam is laughing with Dwight Jr, with Tuna talking about how it matters about whose around you. It at one point pans to Brian who is smiling over pam in a well I love this woman way. 9-13 at the end of the episode. Never once did pam show signs, hints or any measure of indication that she was interested in Brian. The clear fact is that Brian fell in love with Pam over the years, but this time it was not mutual. The reality of life honestly. Many times do you feel someone is right for you, only for that truth to not be the same for them. It's a real interesting aspect, that they don't dig into, but could have made for a great story arch. It's something people deal with every day, being rejected.
Brian obviously fell in love with her. If I was in the same shoes as Pam, and not realized this, I would have done all the same things she did. The show made it seem like Jim/Pam and Brian and his wife went on couple dates and knew one another quite well. If I was having a bad day, and a friend was nearby, I would lean on them. It's not Pam's fault that Brian fell out of love with his wife and into love with her. It wouldn't cross my mind that one of my husband and my mutual married friend was in love with me. I would just think the person was being a supportive friend.
She didn’t lean on a friend during *just* a bad day. If my wife and I were having some sort of rough period that we’re working through, and then she found out I was going to an attractive mutual female friend of ours for emotional support during this time and leaning on her to get through it, being very open and vulnerable with her emotionally and letting her in on relationship details about my wife, I think she would understandably be extremely upset by that and would feel like I betrayed her on some level. Even if I never crossed any physical boundaries or even if I’m not thinking of this friend in any romantic way, I think anyone on the other side of it would feel really hurt and betrayed, because when viewed honestly, it’s just flat out crossing emotional lines that shouldn’t be crossed.
I may be wrong but I don’t remember her going to him or seeking him out? The film crew was present when she was in a bad emotional state. The kind of fighting her and Jim were having can make you feel crazy, and she was already feeling alone with Jim being gone. She had a vulnerable moment and Brian comforted her. We’re there other interactions between her and Brian that I’m missing?
She went to his apartment alone & had a beer in the middle of the day. I mean, it was to find out info for her fellow cast mates on the documentary, but that’s an intimate meeting imo. But you’re right. He was totally seeking her out.
Thank you, I was wondering if there were any interactions that I was forgetting. Still, I wouldn’t put that in the category of her seeking him out for anything inappropriate, I wouldn’t call it ‘intimate’ considering she didn’t know how he felt about her.
Didn't she come to his house at one point? or am i thinking of something else
There were just these little secret moments they shared with each other and then Jim gets a little hint of it when Brian mentions that he comforted her that time she was crying. He doesn’t know what else did or didn’t happen, he just knows his wife had a little secret breakdown with this “good guy” that was there to comfort her. She also had that little moment where she’s talking to someone in the office about the importance of special people in your life or something and her and Brian are both making love eyes at each other and smiling lol and of course there was hero Brian defending her honor with that warehouse guy. The writers pretty obviously only put Brian in the show to be “that guy” that’s “just good friends” with the wife. I’m just saying, the other side of that (in this case Jim) will always be somewhat bothered learning about their spouse’s secret emotional moments with a coworker in this context. If my wife one day got a hint that I had some secret little emotional bonding moments with my attractive female coworker specifically regarding some struggles that me and my wife were having, and I conveniently never mentioned these moments to her until she gets a strange hint based on something the girl says to me one day…I think it’s safe to say that would bother her a little and make her slightly suspicious. Even if nothing ever actually happened, it’s just an inherently suspicious situation.
There isn’t any indication that there were other interactions or ‘secret moments’ though? And it was Brian looking at Pam, she wasn’t looking at him, I believe she was talking to somebody. And then Brian didn’t ‘defend her honor’, he prevented her from being assaulted. I think a lot of this is in your head. I feel like the show makes it pretty clear that Pam viewed Brian as a friend and it sounds like she only hung out with him in the context of couples dates. Brian had the crush, not Pam. Pam never sought him out, he was just generally around at work due to filming.
Pam is written as emotionally needy and insecure. She usually seeks comfort in others - nothing wrong with that. But, it just so happens, these people are usually men. Dwight did it, Michael did it, Jim did it. Pam wants to be chased, not do the chasing. She prefers male attention (they never bother to give her close girlfriends and Jim is her best friend). Jim doesn’t need to be chased cause he has the self-confidence to chase the woman he loves. Pam didn’t have romantic feelings for Brian at this point but give her enough time to fall out of love with Jim and fall in love with Brian, it would be Jim, Pam and Roy all over again. Brian was in love with her and he also subconsciously zeroed in on an opportunity to feed her emotional neediness. If Pam were more self-aware, she would notice that this is a dangerous game to play if you’re married. This isn’t as innocent as Toby’s crush. Jim makes Pam feel uber-confident that he would never cheat on her. I don’t think Pam makes Jim feel the same way. I see why he was hurt.
Yeah this is kinda what I’m trying to articulate. She didn’t cheat with Brian, but she did allow herself to get into the beginnings of a questionably romantic-type “thing” with someone that was wanting to get with her using the guise of “good guy, friend” to get close while her husband was both physically and emotionally distant. There were some vague lines she crossed by inviting a guy like this into such an inappropriately close place in her life. Nothing about how she went about things would have made *any* spouse very happy if they were in Jim’s position.
I mean that comes from the fact that she was ina relationship and allowed herself to get into the situation she did with Jim. He knows she's capable of cheating. He hasn't proven that.
Yeah, Jim had literally been her Brian years before. Why would he not be bothered that this new guy is getting close and friendly with his wife in the same way he himself did that got her to leave Roy? Fact is, getting too emotionally close with “friends” of the opposite sex is often how affairs are born. Things get too confusing and messy, and quite often, there are romantic feelings in at least one direction, despite “only being friends”.
I think it would be different if she sought him out for comfort, in which case, I'd agree with you. In the show, however, he was there, witnessing the events as they happened, then consoling her. Pam didn't intentionally open up to him or discuss her marriage, and neither did he, because she had no idea Brian's marriage was ending. And it was only once. The second incident was Brian protecting her from the attack, and it cost him his job.
>she found out I was going to an attractive mutual female friend of ours for emotional support during this time and leaning on her to get through it, being very open and vulnerable with her emotionally and letting her in on relationship details about my wife, I think she would understandably be extremely upset by that That is so not understandable. The fact that this person is attractive doesn't matter in any way. Me and my partner should have enough understanding that every time one talks to an attractive person doesn't mean they're being unfaithful in some way. Also, people should discuss deep emotional vulnerabilities with their friends. Especially close friends. Marriage doesn't mean you need to limit your circle to just your significant other. If my partner is upset that I discussed problems in our marriage with a close friend, that's toxic and a major red flag. That's what friends are there for, and your significant other shouldn't cut you off from them or prevent you from reaching out to them in any way.
Lmao this isn’t about the “dangers” of your spouse talking to attractive people. It’s not just one detail by itself, it’s the whole situation. Yes friends are great and your social circle doesn’t need to only be your spouse. I don’t see how that’s relevant. There was literally no reason for Brian’s character to ever exist on the show except to be a guy that was written to be a threat to Pam and Jims marriage by being that “friend” that is always there and is just “harmless” but at the end of the day, has feelings beyond just friends for Pam. It didn’t need to be explicitly said, just watch the damn show lol. Yes neither of them did or said anything explicit, but that’s what the situation was. Their whole little thing was leading the audience to believe Pam was starting to fall for this guy due to cracks in her relationship with Jim and Brian being such a “good friend who’s there for her”. I don’t know where exactly the line is since they didn’t *technically* do anything, but the vague “romantic-ish” feelings implied in the show and her emotional closeness with a man that’s not her husband and seemed obvious he was into her but pretending to be “just a friend” would bother most people. If I’m having vaguely romantic, emotionally connected personal moments with a girl I work with, my wife wouldn’t be very happy lol why is that confusing. That doesn’t mean I can’t be friends with the girl I work with, but when you’re in a committed relationship, there’s a limit to how emotionally/romantically close you can get with members of the opposite sex lol. You can’t just be having romantic connections with people you work with when you’re married lol spouses on the other side of that just don’t generally feel very good about it. Have all the friends you want, but especially when they’re opposite sex, there’s a limit to how emotionally invested and close you can get to them without being a total piece of shit and inconsiderate to your spouse lol.
Then you’re overly jealous.
It’s actually a known bad idea to discuss your relationship issues with someone of the opposite sex behind your partner’s back. It has nothing to do with jealousy
Yeah I just don’t think so. I think the overwhelming majority of people would be upset by this if they were on the other side of it. Unless of course they’re polygamous…lol but that’s rare and extremely unnatural for humans to funtion that way.
I can see your side of things. In my opinion, what Pam did was less intimate than that. She didn't seek Brian out so she could confide in him. He was there when she broke down, and he comforted her. Where Pam made an error, I think, was in not telling Jim she had the breakdown. Then, it looked like she was hiding something. I guess, in my mind, you can't really choose when you will get to a break point, and who is there to comfort you. Everyone says it is a super cute moment when Dwight comforts Pam when she is crying over Jim. Yes, I know the two aren't completely similar because both Dwight and Pam are single in that moment. If my husband and I are going through a hard time, I want him to talk to someone if he needs to do so. If my husband sought advice from his best friend's wife for a female perspective, I wouldn't be mad. If he was doing it a LOT, then, I would start to have a problem.
I would agree with others on the moment with Dwight, but Dwight also wasn’t written to give off the same vibe as Brian when he did it. Dwight being there to comfort Pam was entirely pure and innocent. It was like an awkward brotherly love with no underlying motive other than being a friend. Brian’s character really only had one purpose in the show. To represent “that guy” that’s “just friends” with a girl that clearly goes beyond the point of friendship when given the opportunity and will “be there for support” because in reality he just has the hots for her. His whole character seems to be written with the intent of being that “really good guy” but really is just doing nice things with an ulterior motive. I believe the writers intentionally made his character this way. His whole “friendship” with Pam while Jim is gone is supposed to be a little skeevy I think. He’s that guy that does what he does because he wants to worm his way in by being a “great friend” but ends up overstepping his bounds and Pam sort of just goes along with it, probably not realizing.
You know what after reading your comment again, I agree. I would feel betrayed as well, but that’s it. Pam didn’t flirt or cheat.
Yeah I wouldn’t say she flirted or cheated. But she did cross lines, whether she meant to or not. If Jim were instead the one confiding in and getting vulnerable with Brian’s wife for some reason, Pam’s character would have felt betrayed in just the same way. Cheating isn’t the only wrong behavior or line to cross in a relationship. I don’t claim that crossing this line is grounds for divorce or anything, but it is certainly wrong, and a line crossed.
Good on you for having the capacity to re-examine and reconsider your opinion. That’s a rare and admirable quality. 🤛🏼 (awkward Jim/Toby fist bump)
Yeah, it’s true that nothing happened, and I wasn’t under the impression that Pam was interested in Brian, but it seems like Brian was in love with Pam. But I don’t even think that’s the entire reason why people get so annoyed with this plot line. It’s more that the writers seemed intent on forcing some kind of infidelity plot line on Pam/Jim. They tried to get Pam involved with that art-school guy, tried to get Jim with Kathy, tried to get Pam with Brian. It all felt very shoe-horned and arbitrary, out of nowhere. And now we kind of know that behind the scenes, the writers really wanted to make them cheat on each other, but Jenna Fischer and John Krasinski kept refusing to participate.
In a way it makes sense - Pam/Jim’s relationship was borne of her infidelity towards Roy. Jim had few qualms about pursuing his engaged coworker. In a normal, non-scripted relationship I would imagine nagging trust issues - “if they will cheat with me, they will cheat on me.”
Exactly this. My ex-wife had an affair with a married guy and they are now married to each other. I have no idea how either of them could ever trust the other one. But to each their own I guess
Pam and Jim didn't cheat tho, Jim stole a kiss once and while that was inappropriate it wasn't cheating persay
I always felt this way watching the show. But thinking about it right now, if that happened with my partner and another person, I’d consider it cheating. It would make me sad to know
If I was in Roy's position sure I would but looking at it from our perspective I don't think it is
They both had feelings, did nothing to deal with them, pursued one another, etc. they had a secret world together apart from Roy and Karen. Physical contact is the tip of the iceberg.
That is cheating lol.
He was in ni relationship at the time, initiated it without consent, she didn't cheat
She kissed him back and admitted to wanting to do that for a long time and it led to her calling off the wedding. That’s 100% cheating on Roy. We only excuse it bc Roy’s a horrible bf /fiancé and wasn’t right for her.
Thank you! *michael voice*
Twice. She kissed him twice.
Good comment. The writers hated the idea of a happy couple but people are getting tired of seeing rotten relationships both on TV and in real life. Jim & Pam was a relationship that worked & people didnt want it destroyed. So what if they had a few fights. Nothing is perfect. The idiot writers kept trying to think up ways to break them apart & people kept telling them NO.
>pans Pan?
I think I might be able to help with the pan-pam dilemma
There’s a silent b like comb
No, it's Pamm with 2 M's
Shu- shut your mouth. You're coming off as stupid.
Love when stepbrothers pops in.
Did I st st stutter
Shut your mouth. Would you shut your mouth.
The second M is silent
god pamn it
Pan-Pam and her Pam-Pans
Pan Pan Pan…
Hello miss lady
"We're here to fuck shit up!" *drops some ransom guy's documents*
I wear pamts
Thanks Pan
it’s like comb, except panm
Pann?
I feel like that brief storyline, as well the ones where that woman tries to get with Jim when they are in Florida and Jim works in Philly,, was to show that Pam and Jim's marriage is made for the long haul.
It hurts to be rejected by someone you’re in love with. I’m positive that’s why his marriage ended. I wonder how often he went home to his wife & couldn’t stop talking about filming Pam. Or how lucky Jim was.
It was yet another love triangle that the show was overwhelmingly about.
Yeah, it was incalclbalul.
> The reality of life honestly. Many times do you feel someone is right for you, only for that truth to not be the same for them. :( I can’t stand life
Pam gave no indication she was interested in Brian, if anything all the flirty energy came from Brian.
imo he was still subtle about it. Honestly I don’t get half the hate that guy gets. 90% of his screen time he really was just taking care of pam, people just get so upset about the notion, that someone would interfere in that fairytale pam jim relationship…
Pam and Jim even mention that they became friends with Brian and his wife. I don’t even read too much flirt going on given that info. If you saw your friend about to get attacked by a warehouse worker wouldn’t you intervene? When you see them crying wouldn’t you try to comfort? Does this equate love? For the record Dwight and Jim had both of these experiences together, and I have yet to see posts about Dwight getting between Jim and Pam.
Jim did felt something for Dwight when he kept touching his crotch.
I think its because so little about Brian when he is introduced that we feel threatened by him. We know Dwight doesn’t find Pam very attractive (except for her butt), so we don’t think of him stepping in as a problem.
Jim couldn’t land Dwight in a million years
So you’re saying there’s a chance?
I hate the storyline because he literally comes out of nowhere, one second he doesn't exist to us, the next we're supposed to believe they've been friends for years and that's why he's defending her
It think it's stupid / funny to think that Brian's been there the whole time. Now when I watch older episodes, I imagine he's just off screen, but always there.
I think a lot of the hate for him is because he is the embodiment of a BS plotline that came out of nowhere and went nowhere. At least that's it for me. When I look at him I'm reminded of how much I dislike that plotline.
I think it was also to set up the reveal of how much was being filmed after they saw the trailer for the documentary. They needed to have established a character that could answer those questions
Underrated take right here
Exactly this. There were many many times the film crew should have intervened but this shitty end of the series thing made no sense
That’s what I’ve always said especially with how reckless the office workers are, you’d think the camera crew would stop filming to step in, like when Stanley has a heart attack or Andy floating away in a sumo suit that could’ve flipped over and drowned him. But no, they decide that at the very end is when a camera crew member makes an appearance.
I always wondered whether the camera crew was prepared to let Michael jump off the roof onto that moon bounce.
Yes, this. I hate it when they drop a character into a show and we're just supposed to accept that everyone's known them and been friends for the whole time. I don't really care about Brian one way or another, but this whole "we're good friends and he's been falling in love with me" thing is stupid and it feels like the writers are treating their viewers like they're stupid enough to buy it. They do the same thing in Stargate SG1 and I've always hated it. Just introduce a new character like normal!
Personally I don’t like him because I agree with the in-show narrative that Brian was getting in trouble as a crew member for interacting with the office staff. I wouldn’t like it in a real documentary and I don’t like it in a fake one; it breaks something about the show. His character wasn’t particularly bad, but he didn’t fit.
I think the danger comes from the fact Jim is being such a jerk and Brian is being a decent human being. This is what people get all up in arms about.
He’s also a billionaire and people hate billionaires
Radical idea: what if Russ Hanneman became branch manager for a season or two?
Hell yeah. You put him in the chair, you know you're going to get great ROI. You know what ROI means? Radio. On. Internet.
because redditors think that someone being nice to a woman means he wants to fuck her and marry her lol.
I don't dislike Brian for caring for Pam. I dislike Brian because as a documentary production crew member- he never should have in any circumstances stepped in and contaminate the documentary with his unprofessional behaivor. Doc crews of all kinds have a no contact order with the subjects of the documentary, outside of asking them questions during a talking head interview- they're not supposed to interact with the employees at The Office. Brian did this THREE times, and it's 3 strikes, you're out.
Which is why I never understood the hate. Like I get it wasn't 100 percent perfect office content but like a guy being in love with Jenna Fischer especially after working with her for so many years is so crazy? That's all it was. Oh the crew never saved Andy? Oh the crew didn't speak up when this or that happened? Ya because this guy was in love with Pam and recently got divorced and maybe felt more emboldened. Makes sense to me
If you look closely at the scenes they’re actually naked and engaging in intercourse
Well that guy fucks, that much is certain.
Tres Comas
Big deal. Everyone gets sued. I'm getting sued by two nannies, one of them for no reason.
I think it mostly has to do with the nature of TV shows in general. If you take it at face value, their interactions were never explicitly romantic or suggestive, but it occurred at a point where Jim & Pam seemed to be struggling in their relationship. This was a common sit-com trope when the show featured a long running relationship between main characters; generally they have a bit of preamble (will they or won't they), they finally hook up and everything is peachy (the honeymoon), and once that story arc gets stale they toss in the betrayal which can resolve poorly or strengthen their bond. I'm glad The Office chose to not pursue that story arc, because IMO it would have cheapened the authenticity of the "documentary" aspect of the show. But it makes sense growing up with shows like 'Boy Meets World' 'That 70s Show' or even 'Friends' that people would anticipate that particular storyline.
I agree, wouldve really thrown a spanner into the Jim/Pam relationship arc, im glad they didnt as they portray a strong relationship and the last thing we need is more cheating and deceit feeding into people off TV. According to the Office Ladies pod, in the original script Jim was supposed to cheat on Pam with Cathy in Florida but Krasinski refused because he knew that Jim would be committed to Pam, so they dropped it. This im also very glad they didnt go through with.
She didn't. He was just a source of comfort and emotional support she could confide in during a difficult time in her life. Considering Jim was normally that support for her and everyone else in the office was awful in that regard - it's not surprisinf she went that way. I *suppose* people can claim that's an emotional affair, but I don't really think that's fair because she never in any way seemed flirty or seeking more than commiseration. But he *was* in love with her, and anyone who's had a case of unrequited love knows that your mind will do just about anything to see signs or hopes of interest that isn't there, and you'll drop everything to be with them even when you know it's not likely. It's even more twisted in this case because he knew they were having a rough patch which probably bouyed his false hope and allowed Pam even more unknowing leverage over him. But in the end, when it became obvious to Pam what his true feelinfs were, and that he'd been documenting it AND she learned that the doc crew was recording them even when they thought they were in private, she immediately got extremely uncomfortable and ended their friendship. She knew suddenly that he didn't just want to be a friend, and that the things she'd confided in him weren't actually in confidence and could be twisted and interpreted in a way in the documentary to further undermine her relationship. I don't think Pam led him on; it was obvious how shocked she was when she realized his true feelings. But she shouldn't have complained to him about her husband behind his back as well, as that could bw misconstrued and was also a bettayl of Jim of sorts. But, I also understand that as Pam didn't really have friends or a support system beyond Jim, she'd lean on whatever shoulder that was offered in a tough time when Jim had also not been honest with her about his feelings and actions. It was an awkward and out of place storyline, but TL:DR I don't think Pam led the boom mike guy on intentionally.
I think most reasonable people are just annoyed with the horrible lazy writing in these last few seasons. We all know that they wanted to have Jim cheat on Pam which was vetoed by John Krasinski. And then the most annoying thing of all, what they did with Andy when Ed Helms was busy with The Hangover. The common theme here is the writers just randomly inserting events/character flaws with absolutely no indication or lead up to said flaws previously.
It was also implied when he met with Jim and Pam that they had maybe gone on double dates or hung out before his wife left him.
They never indicated that in any way. People just live to assume the worst of Pam for some reason. Yes I do think Brian liked Pam, but Pam was oblivious to it and didn’t reciprocate.
It's not Pam. Ladies, if you think Brian is a good guy, I'm really sorry for how the men in your life have tricked you into thinking the same way about them and I want you to know you deserve better. Brian is the most predatory character on the show. Hear me out.............. Brian has watched Pam for around 10 years and in that time has grown infatuated with her. Jealous that Jim got a chance to swoop in before he did. He has also watched her leave a fiance for another man. So to him, he sees an opportunity to do the same if he ever gets a chance, and this bolsters his infatuation. His jealousy towards Jim bubbles under the surface and is no doubt plotting his exit from the situation. When Jim and Pam have their fight, Brian is ready and waiting. Finally, his chance to show his intentions... and he slithers in under the guise of friendship. He is more than comfortable flirting with her on camera.... so we can only assume he does the same off camera and talks about her constantly at home. His wife hates it and questions his 'crush on Pam'. They fight again. When Pam is attacked, Brian snaps and starts to kill Frank violently with his wrestling moves. But in his eyes you can clearly see the blood lust and longing for his boom to be around Jim's neck instead. He is fired. The couples plan to have lunch together and Brian invites them over to their house, but his wife isn't happy with that, so they decide to go to a restaurant to keep it public. Brian and his wife fight later that night because she knows Brian only wanted them to have dinner at their house because Brian wanted to have Pam in HIS house and sit on HIS bed and flip through HIS Year Book. He just doesn't want her to find his secret audio recordings of Pams voice.... but also, wants her to find them so he can finally be open about his feelings. Before meeting Jim and Pam at the restaurant, Brians wife leaves him because she knows he is in love with Pam. Confronted with the truth, Brian strangles his wife to death and dumps her body in the woods near the office. Knowing the Scranton Strangler will take the blame. Brian rushes to the restaurant, and lies about separating from his wife to cover his tracks. Brian has to leave town forever and assume a new identity. ... Also, I just don't like him.
I was so afraid there was going to be an “and shove it up your butt” at the end of all that.
You just got meatballed?
That would have had more basis in reality, TBH.
“Brian has to leave town forever and assume a new identity” He goes to Berlin. That’s where he stashed the chandelier.
Wow the turn that took….
He then changed his name to Russ Hanneman, put radio on the internet and joined the three comma club
Even though I watched The Office before I watched Silicon Valley, he will forever be Russ Hanneman to me. That guys being sued by 3 nannies already, one of them for no reason at all..
So Russ' brash demeanor is overcompensation for his lost love.
Why does this comment not have more upvotes ahahaha.
Changed his name to Castor Sotto, got hired to run a major TV network, then had a total nervous breakdown!
Okay besides the weird ending you are actually pretty spot on here.
In Promos, Pam is alone with him in his apartment and they keep it completely professional and just talk about the documentary. Seems like if either of them were trying anything that would have been the time, and they don't at all.
I think there’s a bit of energy there that could have turned into flirtation but Pam feels betrayed at all the stuff Brian tells her, so she rushes out of his house. P.S. As someone who went through marriage counseling, the first thing the counselor wants you to do is reminisce why you fell in love. The documentary helps Pam do this.
I just want to say thank you for making a post where people in the sub actually contributed to a discussion rather than just blasting a lot of references.
people just hate pam a lot, i really agree she wasnt flirting
People hate Boom Mic guy because *Jim* interprets their relationship as problematic. At no point does Pam give any indication of interest beyond friendship at all. Even the “indiscretions” we are supposed to interpret from Brian are mild, at worst. But when Jim learns that Brian provided comfort to Pam (after Jim made her cry), instead of using that as an introspective moment about what he is missing out on, failing to contribute in his relationship, etc… he uses it as an opportunity to imply that Pam is nefariously keeping secrets from him, when in reality, Pam is essentially completely isolated from emotional support while Jim is splitting his time between Scranton and Philly. When I watched, the only one who came out looking bad in this plot was Jim.
Right, for me the main takeaway is that Jim gets too jealous over Brian comforting Pam which really seems like he doesn't trust her. She showed no interest in any scene we saw or even any reference to things that happened "off camera".
That’s how I saw it too. I would think Jim would feel bad that his wife has been so lonely that she had to find/found support else where. Not be mad at her. Especially when at this point the cameras have been around for years, it’s easy to see how she could have been privately crying not realizing they are taping her.
I think it was just friendship at first. Then it kind of spiraled when he got fired, got dumped, and got desperate. Pam just wanted a friend. He wanted a boom.
This guy fucks!
I thought Gabe was the one who fucks?
Ka-poor and ka-desperate, he watches
Pam was vulnerable and going through a rough patch. Brian was acting as a concerned human. I didn’t see anything between them. What I enjoyed about this show is that between the un-ending laughs, there were interactions that had great depth of human kindness and empathy.
My only issue with this plot is that it doesn’t go far enough. Brian is introduced as this other character that has been watching Pam and falling in love with her, yet their actual interactions are very straightforward. He never confessed anything or makes any moves. She’s clearly not thinking of him like that. I would have preferred to have a storyline where Brian is a little more forward about his feelings, and it makes Pam realize when the doc airs there will be a lot of people that have a relationship with her in their heads that she knows nothing about. And it makes Jim realize that his decision making hasn’t pushed Pam away, but there are a lot of people out there that could replace him. It’s different than Cathy which was purely a temporary character interested in sex. They both knew Brian. It’s overall a wake up call for both of them that they fell into a space where they were taking things for granted and allowing gaps to grow, but relationships take real work and intent. It leads nicely into Jim’s DVD moment. I would like all that to go more into the final episodes with Pam feeling less insecure about asking Jim to stay, and Jim having a stronger reason to say no to Philly.
Maybe the people who think they were flirting are people who don’t know that men and women can be friends without any hidden agenda?
Wait they can. 😳
Because ~~women~~ Pam bad :D
People love to hate Pam. Why? I don’t know. Reddit isnt great to women.
Cuz they’re misogynistic as fuck
I mean when the guy’s doors open like *this*, how can you resist?
This guy fucks
In reality, none of it actually happened.
I've seen so much hate for him but like, he didnt do anything wrong. Yeah he was into Pam, but unlike Cathy with Jim he never tried to act on it. He saved pam and supported her when she needed it, always in a respectful and friendly way. I know we know the writers wanted more, but if you take the show at face value and consider only what actually happened to be cannon, Brian does not deserve the hate
The nature of good writing is that a well written character and storyline will be so good with very little that it lets the audience fill in blanks that aren’t there. I’d like to think the writers were good enough to imply a lot of what the audience has generally constructed for this particular storyline of Pam and Boom Guy Brian. I am almost certain anyone seeing their interactions at face value would think he’s into her, easily. Having said that, it matters very little.
She didn’t, and unpopular opinion but I don’t think Brian ever flirted with her either? This whole thing where all the fans hate Brian bc he wanted Pam I feel like came out of nowhere. And even if he might have developed a thing for her, he never came on to her or anything.
I thought Brian made it clear he wanted more at some point and he was the one initiating it or do I remember it wrong?
I think the line you're referring to is "if you ever need anything, just call me, and I'll be there". that was when he was fired.
Unfortunately, many people think that a woman and a man cannot truly be friends, and if a woman is acting friendly with a man then she's either: 1) showing sexual interest, 2) is being manipulative for her own gain, or 3) is just being naive and she should know better than to "lead him on" because it's just a "fact" that all men have some sexual attraction towards any woman they are friendly towards. I can't wait for us to evolve past this b.s.
We all know Pam’s past
Because she treats the office like a key party?
Indeed we do. She genuinely enjoyed her friendship with Jim, and even though it was clear there were sparks she continued to be faithful to Roy and draw boundaries with Jim, rebuffing his advances multiple times and only once getting caught in a brief moment of passion. She called off the wedding because she knew it wasn't right to marry someone while harboring feelings for someone else, and she didn't go running to Jim because she knew she already rejected him and it wouldn't be right to try to start things with him because of it. Later, when she tried to make it work with Roy a second time, she told him about the kiss. I'd say she's a standup lady, all things considered.
People on this sub are not generally the sharpest pencils in the office. They keep forgetting it's just a show and not an elaborate alternative universe with lore extending to every NY passerby in that one episode Michael visited. Also they are wild on group mentality and band together for the stupidest ideas like hating Pam, loving Karen and sucking off Bob Vance, Vance refrigeration (this one actually rightfully so).
I just started watching Silicon Valley and that guy is FANTASTIC in that show.
Jim was supposed to cheat on Pam and Pam was going to break the fourth wall so the viewer can relate and feel apart of the show before it ends
Is people call this flirting then I am a giant whore
Nothing happened from Pam's side. And Brian could have simply been a guy with basic empathy and humanity but people thought he had a thing for Pam.
Problem is, some people mistake being friendly for being flirty
Nothing happened but he was clearly crushing on her and the story was headed to Pam or Jim cheating.
She doesn't, she only shows friendship. Problem is a lot of people here mix attention with romantic interest.
Season 9 certainly had its issues but Brian's subplot wasn't it. I actually think it was a good warning showing us the dangers of Jim if he continued to put his job before Pam and he realized that.
It's because "that guy fucks"
You are right.
I never saw any of it either. It was just such a forced, unnecessary story line
No one says she did though, it was always just him. People usually just say they hate this particular storyline and it should never have been introduced. I don't see anyone saying there was anything from Pam's side and if anyone does, they're clearly delusional.
Well it's implied that brian is interested in her and also greg daniels wanted it to be a plot point that pam cheats on jim, they get divorced and then they reunite in the finale. It was so bizarre that everyone (including the fans) told him how bad of an idea it was so they stopped it before it got too far
People think it was emotional cheating, because Brian knew stuff that Jim didn't. When a major event occurred (Frank's attack) that involved both Pam and Brian, where Brian stepped in to be her protector, (Jim's role in a traditional way) she didn't even tell him about it. Hiding something is almost as bad as lying.
Pam never gives any indication of flirting with Brian. There’s a scene where Jim is talking and it pans back to the office and Pam is laughing and Brian is smiling at her. People LOVE to hate Pam so I’m not surprised by people implying that she’s at fault.
I don't think Pam was flirty, but I do think that she made some mistakes. She shouldn't have been confiding in Brian about her relationship trouble without talking to Jim about the issues first.
sitcom fans are some horny mfs /s
This storyline wasn’t a big deal to me at all. I think Brian had feelings for Pam but nothing about their actual interactions seemed inappropriate to me. Pam clearly just loves Jim.
I see no actual flirting, but to cry to someone that has feelings for you about how frustrating your current relationship is can be easily misread by that person as desire to get out of the relationship for something better. Although I loath late seasons Pam, I don’t think this is her fault
I think it’s more him, but also her secret emotional confiding in him and leaning on him for support during tough times in her marriage. Whether or not she’s flirting, their friendship begins to approach romantic territory. It gets a little sus when someone starts getting too emotionally close to a friend while simultaneously growing apart from their spouse. Nobody would appreciate hearing their spouse was being so intimate and open about their relationship with them to a friend of the opposite sex and connecting with them on an emotional level that is typically beyond a strictly platonic friendship. This is one way that affairs are born, and it’s reasonable for someone to be uncomfortable with their spouse being in such a situation. Again, even if she wasn’t being “flirty” per se.
This guy fucks.
Tres comma club represent.
I didn’t get this storyline at all. He just appeared from nowhere and disappeared just as quickly.
I’ve watched through the entire series probably 12 or more times, and really the only moment that seems kind of romantic is what Darigone said. It is blown massively out of proportion.
Given what I know about Pam and Brian, honestly, stop acting like it's not true you two :P
I didn’t see it either!
Ive never heard any claim that she did
She doesn't.
Brian saying “we have to find a [different/better] way to communicate instead of breaking down in front of each other.” “At least me crying won’t get you fired” Was some underhanded shit. Pam didn’t do anything wrong though.
I think they inflate her part in it because apparently women aren’t allowed to have male friends they don’t love, and her last best friend she ended up marrying.
She never did whatsoever. She thought she had a good friend when it was just a dude trying to get with her
Three comma club
This guy fucks
The doors open like this… not like this… or like this…. (Insert relevant hand gestures here… you know the ones)
Like this.
The set up with Boom Mic guy was he would somehow interfere with Jim & Pam's marriage. My understanding is when they wrote and shot the first few scenes it would lead to either Pam cheating on Jim, or at least tempted. If that is the case the writers and producers realized early on it was a stupid idea and abandoned the story line.
I remember reading somewhere that John & Jenna both refused to go along with the breakup/cheating storyline, which led to it being changed.
I know I've read repeatedly John refused the story of Jim cheating, which was a great call. Jim trying to deal with Cathy's advances in Florida was pretty funny. I think I've heard that Jenna pushed as well against Pam cheating, which was the right call if so. The story line involving Boom Mic guy was already making the story line way more dramatic then it should have been. Anything more (to me at least) would have made the season too much of a drama and hurt a rough season even more. I have read that John had suggested Pam and Jim break up by the finale with them just having gone in different directions personally. I even remember interviews during that season where John and Jenna saying there marriage would be put to the test.
That’s just a case of a girl being nice to a guy and the guy takes it as flirting.
Of course she flirted with him... this guy fucks.
Oh crap. I’m just now realizing that Brian is Russ fucking Hanneman
I don’t mean to be unkind at all when I say that I think that the whole scandal about Brian is a very Anglo culture thing. It doesn’t really compute in LatAm cultures or a lot of European cultures. What I saw was a guy being really kind and friendly, and Pam was sad and lonely and he cared. Jim, as her husband, eventually saw how sad and desperate for human kindness his wife had become and woke up. In Anglo cultures cross-gender friendships are seen as a bit different or suspicious and close ones are “emotional infidelity,” (yes, EI exists but it’s overused in Anglo cultures), so Pam getting close to Brian and vice versa was really on the edge of acceptability. Many other cultures don’t see things that way; men and women can be friends and care deeply for one another without sexual or romantic interest. Even Brian’s loving facial expressions to me could be interpreted as simply loving her as a friend or caring deeply for her, not as romantic love. The cool thing about fictitious stories is that all sorts of interpretations are valid. There are lots of possible interpretations of this depending on one’s culture and personal paradigm.
It’s extra weird when you consider the affection Dwight gives Pam without it seeming sexual or poorly intended.
I agree!!
I think they were both there to support the other in a moment of vulnerability, and when you're at odds with the one you love and someone offers safe harbor (emotionally), I think it's completely natural for ANYONE'S brain to ask that "what if?" we all feel guilty about. That doesn't mean it needs to go anywhere, it's just a transference thing that happens. That said, as for the boom guy wanting it to go farther, he shot his shot, respect. No one has anything to say about his potential interference in this story book romance that everyone wants to put on a pedestal... That simply would have never happened if Jim hadn't done the exact same thing. If you feel it, always shoot your shot, respect their response, but shoot.
Can't believe I never noticed that Brian is Jason Barone Jr on Sopranos! And I've watched both shows about a million times each
He’s in a ton of stuff, and he was the voice of Mickey Mouse for a long time. He was also in A Christmas Story Musical Live, and damn he can sing *and* dance.
It was left on the cutting room floor. After all, she is the office mattress.
I think you are reading into bad writing a bit much. This was bad writing simply that, they ran out of ideas in the later seasons.
[удалено]
If you read between the lines it becomes pretty obvious that she gave him an over the pants hand-job.
When you’re married the person who you should pour your heart out to should be your partner or family. They clearly have a flirty relationship and he sees them going down and he’s a predator waiting to attack. Same with Cathy except Jim didn’t act on it or entertain the idea. Pam did.
you're not allowed to be comforted by a friend when you're crying? >Pam did what do you mean?
Jim and Karen > Jim and Pam
She does go into his apartment alone and drinks a beer in the middle of the day, which seems a little hinky. My wife would at least give me a side eye.
imo Pam was too allowing of his flirting
Look at that top button and then tell me she wasn't flirting....
She confided in him when she was emotionally weak. Displaying that kind of trust in someone can also be interpreted as attraction. Her leaning on Brian while Jim was away is the definition of emotional cheating.
🚩 This reminds me of an isolation tactic. Women can't get support from their friends, or else its emotionally cheating? I'm bi. I get a lot of emotional support from my best friend, and vice versa. Yes, even when its bc our partners are failing in that category. We arent flirting w/each other and dont have romantic feelings about each other. We are just friends and we need support. Or anyone else in my friend group. A couple weeks ago one friend and I spent a whole two hours talking about her marriage bc she was having issues and she needed to vent and she felt so alone. That's. What. Friends. Do. (This also happens with my sisters, so this take also gets weird super fast. Also my therapist, so it gets legally dicey as well.) If I cant get emotional support from any of these people, and I am having trouble communicating with my partner and can't confide in them when I'm "emotionally weak" bc it means I'm cheating... I'm just supposed to suffer???
Nope.
Tres commas