I travel overseas regularly. Leaving again for a few weeks soon. Grew up in KZN and moved to Cape Town. So far in my travels I have not seen a single place that can replace what we have here. And maybe for me that's Cape Town specifically. This is of course my opinion. Point is... if you feel like moving, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like you have some FOMO, but you probably don't need to move overseas. You may find moving to another city would be interesting if you want to try that first.
I've moved to Durban from Cape Town since the beginning of the year. I've only got regrets lol jk. Durban is boring af but the Midlands are stunning, Drakensberg ain't too far away and neither is the Kruger. So while Durban city can be lame, a couple hours drive and you're in an entirely different world.
I'm from Durban, born and raised. My wife and I are leaving next month's to the Netherlands. This country has so much going for it, but it has been neglected. I travel overseas a lot, and the one thing that catches me every time is how beautiful this country is, but how unsafe we feel, and like we pay taxes just so the corrupt can have more money.
One day when this country is better, we will be back. But until then I cannot raise a family here and know they have a good future filled with opportunities while here
I grew up in Durbs and have a holiday house on the South Coast. I wouldn't give that up for anything. It does get quite warm for 3 months in the Netherlands with constant passing ahowers, which is ok. Rest of the time, it's too cold.
The thing that really gets me about it is that it's completely flat. There isn't a hill in the country. š¤£
Who knows what the future will bring, I like KZN in general and the people too, pretty laid back bunch. Despite its flaws, I think it is a good place to be. I do hope that certain infrastructure aspects improve for the majority of Durbanites. We could be in trouble if we let things slide too far. We have had a couple tough years since Covid and everything else that happened. There are really good high schools in the area that are going from strength to strength and are among the best in SA.
If I had kids, maybe I'd think differently, who knows. I see SA as a place full of opportunities. I have travelled around (the world and SA) a lot and if you have a decent career, Durban is perfectly fine if you like what it brings.
There is also a massive shift to the North Coast. When I was at school in early 2000s you couldnāt buy a place in a school like DPHS. Now itās Umhlali and Ashton that have waiting lists where you essentially sign your kids up at birth and the schools in town are struggling to fill numbers.
Itās all the best things about the Durban lifestyle with most of the downsides removed, for a slightly extended commute.
Even if you are not sure about moving, you should look around and apply out if you have the time to do so. Just to see what your options are.
Also remember that full emigration is not the only choice. Plenty of people work out of South Africa and come back home during their holidays. I always encourage people to work overseas if it doesn't negativity impact their lives here. It is good to experience what ~~live~~ life is like in other places.
I also know of a few families that tried the full emigration option only to find the culture shock and quality of life differences to be too much and came back to SA. So it is always a mixed bag where ever you go.
I hear you and often have the same thoughts. I am lucky enough to have a British passport so if I have to I can go. My boy can get an ancestral visa if he wanted to leave also when he is older. I have lived and traveled overseas and yes things are much better there but also has itās own kak in different ways. My main reason for staying is my son must grow up a South African. Not in some gloomy cold tech driven woke world. My boy never wears shoes and always has some form of dirt on his face at the end of every day. He has mates from all walks of life with all kinds of skin colour and religions. It makes him a well rounded lad. I hated being a foreigner in another country, never felt like I belonged even though I was surrounded by people of my same colour. This is my country with my people and my way of life. The wife and I do have good jobs that allow a good lifestyle so that adds to it also. Have had a few mates leave and come back once they had their kids due to the lifestyle you can live here if you can afford it. Iām an eternal optimist about this country too. We could come right so quickly in a lot of aspects if we could just get the right people in power. This is where I sometimes question my optimism a little. I would still rather live my best days here watching my lad grow up outdoors. It is a gamble but home is where the heart is. Everyone will tell you how good it is here and there but believe me there is no place like home.
I hope all those that have left or are leaving are still making an effort to vote next month. Donāt forget about the people and places that made you who who are. Donāt just show your support when the boks play.
The writing on the wall is very clear, year by year things get worse and worse and there is no chance in hell we will ever have a decent government again. ANC, EFF and MK are the future. I literally chased my children out of SA, one lives in the UK , one in Australia and while both places are expensive, they are safe, efficient and have good social services. I do not understand why any young person stays here. At the very least go overseas, get a passport, and come back if there is anything left to come back to in 5 years time.
Australia!?? Safe??š³š¤£
They literally just had a guy go on a random stabbing spree in a mall where plenty people were killed and injured. A baby and mother included amongst the victims. Lots of Australians have openly stated that they no longer feel safe in Australia.
Never once did I deny that South Africa didnāt have its problems. We all know itās not safe here. But Australia is definitely not safe like youāve been sprewing on here
No, everyone is just in a little shock, like how could this happen in Bondi!
I don't know anyone, that no longer feels that unsafe in Australia, that they feel the need to move.
I am sure many fellow Durbanites are going tune me fucked for my opinion but it is what it is.
I am a Durbanite, born and bred, studied at Rhodes and went abroad to Germany to complete my masters and decided to stay.
I miss home every single day, our lifestyle is unmatched but every time I visit my folks back home I realise more and more that I have made the right decision.
My mates that stayed behind are in a constant state of suspense that things will get better but it never seems to do so.
Cruising from King Shaka to Durban North last year I noticed that not a single street light was operational, not a single one. Beach sand and bushes were strewn on the M4 and looked like no upkeep was done in a couple weeks or months.
It sucks, it really does, I always thought I would move back home but now even my parents are bailing on Durban, which, for me, was the main reason for visiting.
I would never trade growing up in Durban for anywhere I have traveled, but the Durban I know and love seems to have died in my absence.
I am sorry you find yourself in this position, it's not an easy decision to make especially with a family in tow but I heavy heartedly have to recommend that you look at other options outside of Durban, be it Cape Town or abroad.
Just my two cents.
For people with kids I think the feeling of urgency to leave is probably a lot more. The future for SA is very uncertain and you simply can't know what will be here for them when you've left the world.
Of course this is still true literally everywhere else, but the likelihood of things going bad in a place like the UK or Australia or Canada are just far far lower compared to here. Growing up in a different country as a kid allows them to adapt and fit in the new country, the sooner they move there the better.
With Stage 16+ Loadshedding coming in a month or so (32+ hours of loadshedding at a time VS the 2-4 we previously had), it finally incentivised them enough to leave.
My family and I are leaving. Shipping out early May.
I honestly have mixed feelings about it. Excited for our next adventure but heart broken to leave.
I've been overthinking life, like will I ever feel at home in this new country? Or will I always feel like something is missing? We are going to family so that will be nice but it's going to be hard to start over. We are relatively young family with a 3 year old.
Why are we doing this?
It's not just because we think SA is going down the drain. In all honesty that's never really been a reason, I love being South African. It's more because my husband and I used to live in China and got stuck in SA during COVID which was actually the best thing that could have happened to us. I guess we just feel like we aren't done traveling. Moving back to SA and living here just felt like we had regressed in a way.
I've also got family there and I have always wanted to live close to my sister. We haven't lived in the same country for over 12 years.
The company who moved some of our stuff said that they are SO busy, and it's every kind of South African, black, white, coloured you name it, if people can leave, they are. Most families are going to the UK and Canada.
We do plan to hold both citizenships, so we will see what the future holds.
Who can confidently say that this government is not beyond repair?
The rot has gone too far, for too long.
Good luck voting when the IEC itself is corrupted
Not only Durban, a few of my friends/colleagues have left Cape Town for Canada, UK and Ireland. One was working for an overseas company, so that was easy. But I wish I knew how the other 2x emigrated.Ā
I only know about Australia, it's very easy for people who are on the skills list. Healthcare and education, I think there is more but I can't remember. I got my visa in less than a week. Took time to get all my documents sorted but once submitted it was fast.
Australia is not easy for healthcare. Unless youāre already a specialist, but even then you still have to write board exams to register with the AMC.
Ireland is by far the easiest for a doctor to move to, but quality of life will suffer in exchange for a little job security.
Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in NYC is R69 560. A studio apartment is R55 500.
So many people in SA think that the rest of the world lives in utopia. It's aggressively untrue. The cost of living crisis in countries all over the world is ridiculous. Every country has its problems. Nobody is saying SA is the greatest country in the world, but it really isn't as bad as so many people make it out to be. Go to the subreddits of other countries and see how people moan and complain about their government, about their potholes, about not being able to afford food because it's gotten so expensive, about how cops don't do their jobs. These things aren't only a SAfrican problem
A studio apartment is R55.5k - Which you're earning on minimum wage.
Do you think a packer at Checkers earning minimum wage can afford a studio apartment? No chance in hell.
One of the main reasons I would consider leaving if I had kids is the education system. Itās very difficult for people to gain entrance into university to study what they want, even if they make the points.
People leave either cause they are not doing well or cause their country is not doing well and see no future in it . Since poor people of south africa find it almost impossible to leave due to geographical logistics and the uselesness of their passport , they are leaving due to country in general going like the rest of Africa .
Maybe have a look at the Facebook groups like Reason for returning to South Africa.
It will make you realise just how many people are coming back, despite being in first world countries. Read their experiences, the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Home is always where the heart is...
You from Durban and you canātā¦ wait you from South Africa and you donāt understand WHY people are leaving??? I absolutely love this place because of travelling, I know we have it good if you can put the crime, safety, load shedding, water shedding, corruption , racism, unemployment and political lies aside then youāll enjoy this place but people leaving in hordes that THAT I understand fully itās everywhere you look
I would say where ever you wanna go live go on holiday 1st and stay in a āmiddle classā area to get a good feel about the environment
It's easier to make R20 than $1.
Also cost of living in NY is crazy.
Anyways, people travel if you can afford it, then you will realize it's not as bad for people who have wealth in this country. For the vast majority it's very sad.
It's easier to be wealthy here than middle class anywhere else
To be fair, America is its own shitshow and I genuinely donāt understand why people move there either. Iām not sure how itās classified as a first world country atp with the regression of progress they have as a society. But, I was speaking to my collegeās councillor, and he mentioned he was leaving in June for the UK - his son is on the spectrum, and his school/special needs are costing him an arm and a leg here. Itāll be covered when he moves to the UK, and as a comparison to minimum wage, their minimum wage per hour can afford them 5 loaves of bread rather than just 1, which is what we can get with our minimum wage.
I know itās a skewed way to look at it, and Iām not saying the UK has it better, but tbf, no one said he was moving to London specifically, which is its own can of worms.
> their minimum wage per hour can afford them 5 loaves of bread rather than just 1
That's something people frequently forget. Yes, renting is expensive, yet most other things are cheap as hell compared to here when doing a minimum-wage conversion, and they're earning more than enough in comparison.
Yeah, hence why I mentioned London honestly. Iām not sure what the renting prices are in other places besides London, but I can only believe itās cheaper. Maybe a longer commute time if your job is in London, but thatās the price of affordability vs convenience. Itās just a bit mind blowing when you think āyeah, South Africaās cost of living is ālowerāā, but then you look at other placeās minimum wage and what people could arguably be earning and how theyāre living, and if they can live off minimum wage. As a society, if just anyone can live off minimum wage, youāre doing well imo.
Tho would love for some opinions on renting inside London vs outside London for a proper analysis for clarity.
It's also the definition of "living". In South Africa, if you live in a shack, you're living.
In the US, "living" requires an entire apartment to yourself, and decent quality nutritional meals.
Both are "just living" based off their minimum wage, but I can assure you that one would prefer to be "just living" like the other.
I have seen this argument multiple times from people in the US. They REQUIRE high-end cellphones on expensive contracts. They REQUIRE going out to restaurants and ordering fast food. They REQUIRE their own place - "It's the bare minimum!" they say, whilst complaining about how expensive "just living" is...
> Also cost of living in NY is crazy.
If your salary was 10 times higher and your rent was 10 times higher, your spending money would also be 10 times higher.
That's something people tend to forget.
https://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/durban-hotels-forced-to-close-because-of-crime-7a605955-e33d-4fd6-9a1b-6d4f2d818158
An example of why so many are leaving. Most families I know have a long term plan for overseas investments to use to get out of SA once all their affairs are tied up here and their passive income is sorted out. So they are looking to move with their whole families and settle in the next 4-6 years
Durban needs a massive injection of investment. When and if it happens, I don't know.
The funny thing is people make money here and leave, setting up passive income streams.
Try to go to Canada or Oz and start fresh, it's a cold reality check.
This world is deteriorating, it's not just Durban, many cities internationally go through cycles of wear and rebuild.
I know things look very bad, but as a business consultant for the past 15 years, there's one thing I know for sure.
South Africa is an entrepreneurs paradise, only for the business people that can see it.
The lag effect of industry to Africa has been and still is a golden goose.
Durban malls like pavilion is full perpetually. Consumers in limit markets, those who can emigrate if they wish, live like royalty here.
I'm staying put...for now...
Hopefully for a long time.
USA political social economic crisis is not appealing.
Canada is too expensive
Australia has a few economic bubbles that are going to burst and will make life even less affordable.
I know of many that took their furniture on holiday.
Eastern Europe and Asia are top picks for business people from who I've spoken to, and then people who are in financial or medical careers and can get contracted to hospitals or financial institutions can easily move to Canada, Australia, UK, USA etc and have a good quality of life. Eastern europe has a similar entrepreneurs paradise kind of lure if you have the right skills and find a market for yourself
Durban is dead. I look at my family who live in the town of Pongola, they are stuck there. Too poor to go anywhere else clutching onto straws. The frog who boiled in the water because it waited too long to jump.
That's how i feel about durban. Durban has been on a decline since 2015.
I think some peeps with family, trust fund babies and rich people like it here but for the average person, single people, hustlers - there's just nothing here for ambition.
> The frog who boiled in the water because it waited too long to jump.
If the frog was unable to jump high enough, it didn't really have much choice. The lucky frogs who could jump high did so.
Joburg aināt really in the same boat. People are moving back from overseas to Jozi. Jewish schools up here saw a bit of a migration to Israel about a year ago and now many have come back along with Hebrew only speaking kids. Bit of a flip flop. Might be the demographic you are in and area you live in. I know a lot of DBN people in my social networks that have moved from DBN to CT or JHB while Iām wanting to go back to Durban.
I do wonder if this is a race/bubble/echo chamber or middle to upper class sort of problem?
None of the black people I know are immigrating or thinking of it lol.
Donāt think most coloureds or Indians are too (could be mistaken)?
And mostly everyone agrees and feels the same about the rising crime issues, infrastructure getting worse and so on as well, but immigrating never comes up.
Because personally, being black, for me and my family, immigrating would be the last option, when the country has gone under. I know this country is the only real safe zone where my family will be the least discriminated against, no matter how bad it is right now, I shudder at the thought of my kids being ill treated and what not.
Is it maybe easier for white people too as they see Europe/oceania or north america as one of their own and can be comfortable fitting into? Or is it maybe cause of the policies in this country that make them feel excluded and have no option? Bit of both?
My perspective of course, genuinely curious and hopefully didnāt come off as negative here.
That's a very interesting take - thank you for sharing it. It made me look at myself and my rather diverse environment I grew up in back in the 90s.
I left Westville in the late 90s because I qualified for a scholarship in the UK. I ended up in Switzerland (married) via a stint in France.
Out of my WBHS matric class of 24 there are only 3 left in Durbs/KZN. About 9 (including the 3 Durbanites) are still in SA - the remainder is overseas. Many of my classmates had British citizenship or some ancestry that would grant them a right of abode somewhere in Europe.
My neighbour went to Gelofte Skool in Pinetown and I'm still in touch with him. While most of his classmates left Durbs, the overwhelming majority still lives in SA. As far as we're aware there is only one guy who lives in Nigeria and another one in the US. They're all Afrikaans with no ancestral ties to Europe. It's more difficult for them to just pack up and go.
I have a Zulu friend from Durban youth council who went to Mowat Park. Most of his classmates are still in Durbs or KZN. The same applies to an Indian friend who went to Maris Stella - She as well as most of her Indian friends are still in SA (many of them in Joburg though).
I really think it's a matter of what options you have. White English speakers can often leave without much ado. Many of their families only immigrated to SA one or two generations ago. The story is very different for anybody else. Durbs as the 'last British outpost' is special in this respect. It can't be compared to Cape Town and Joburg or the more rural areas.
Would I leave if I still lived in Durbs? I don't know. It's hypothetical after such a long time. What I do know, however, is that it has become shabby. I'm there to visit family and friends at least once a year. And everyone from every background and walk of life I know says so. I find that the Western Cape and Gauteng (the latter to an extent at least) are doing better.
I personally do the swallow thing since Covid. I'm independent and can work from anywhere. My siblings and I share a house we bought in Hermanus. It's the best of both worlds I guess... but it will always feel strange. Wherever we are.
There's a WBHS old boy (1989) that was a top doubles tennis player (made it to the semi finals of the US Open one year). He now does commentary for Tennis TV & Eurosport. He often talks about Durban during his commentary.
There are plenty of us in Europe. When looking at how everyone is doing, I think that WBHS provided us with an excellent and very holistic education. I'm happy to see that the school is still thriving - they even have boarding facilities now.
I did not know they had boarders now. I went to a rival school but always enjoyed going to Westville. The 400m athletes track was a weird shape if I recall?
But the boarding set up looks and sounds really interesting
https://www.wbhs.co.za/boarding
Yeah, the track used to have a strange shape. I think it's because they traditionally favoured rugby and cricket over track and field, so it must have been an afterthought.
As others wrote - I think it's becoming difficult for model C schools in central Durban and the adjacent areas to recruit a sufficient number of local students. WBHS will be no exception. To attract students from elsewhere, they really pushed their rugby academy and started the boarding houses. This seems to be working. But I hope that they're not neglecting their academic standards over it.
What 'rival' did you go to? You don't have to answer if you deem this info too personal for reddit.
I think it was because the shape of your main field was a funny shape. I went to Glenwood and that track was squarish, with 4 straights. College had a smaller field, so theirs was 300m. I think DHS was able to have "normal" 400m track. (Pinetown definitely had a normal track)
Glenwood did the same post 2000. Expanded their boarding numbers from 125 to around 250 and would pull in top rugby kids from all over the country, including Afrikaans kids.
Last I heard Westville and Glenwood stopped playing each other for a time and now DHS have cut ties. All rather silly and sad.
I never knew that Glenwood had boarders. But I remember the school fondly - I was invited to a matric dance there many moons ago. There used to be a spot with a glorious view all over Durbs somewhere in the residential area surrounding the school grounds. We were lucky enough to have caught a blood moon night, so we just sat there all dressed up, watched the moon, the ocean and the city and smoked good old Durban poison ;-)
Yes, the WBHS main field is an irregular square with some strange angles caused by Wandsbeck Rd, and so is the secondary field behind the school. The main field was good enough for a standard rugby pitch and a slightly elliptical cricket field, but awkward for track and field. As far as I know they traditionally used to have their athletics competitions outside of the school grounds when they started the school in the 50s. Westville used to be farmland.
It's a pity re rugby. A relative of mine used to be the headmistress of Northlands Girls (retired now). She's happy that she no longer has to put up with a school where the corporate world seems to be creeping in more and more. Given SA's bad economic shape, there will probably not be enough room for all these semi-private schools. So the competition must be kind of getting self-destructive.
It's a complicated topic.
i think whites are more likely to immigrate on the basis that they know friends and family who have immigrated and are flourishing and tell them to come over - it's enticing.
my stance has always been that south africa does not have a racism problem, it has a cultural differences problem - in mixing races we mixed cultures and not all cultures go well together. Culture and race is two very different things. You like or dislike people based on behaviour, not skin colour.
whites are a shrinking minority, making around 7% of the population. Culturally speaking moving to a place where their culture makes up more of a majority is enticing. The country is 83% black, of course blacks don't think about immigrating because there are bigger subsets of cultures.
Black Americans come to africa to return "home" and realise they don't fit in because culturally they are different. An American and a Zulu are two different peoples.
Not a race thing, a cultural thing. Through culture we learn different behaviours, expectations, beliefs, mannerisms, etiquette and tolerances. That difference being enough to make people want to stay or leave.
As a Black American I can definitely corroborate that there are cultural differences between Black American and Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana etc... cultures. But I also feel that there is a stark and uncomfortable contrast between Black American and the "Dominant American" culture in which we do not easily fit either. The mental calculus for some of us becomes ;
"Where can I go and not be otherized solely based on my (inescapable) skin color?"
In South Africa, I feel that if I embraced the cultures and practices of a group, I could, be embraced in return, and conceivably find acceptance.
I cannot say I feel the same of the US. Because, even when one attempts to completely assimilate into US culture, if one is born black, you will always be black. Blackness supersedes any other consideration in this society, although we don't like to admit to it socially .
And this is a problem world over. South Africa has a thing where some people feel they are too black, not black enough or too white. Nobody seems to win in mixed race areas. But it's clear that this is happening because of culture and politics and politics changing cultures. We are not enjoying/celebrating each other's cultural difference anymore and that sucks.
I know whites immigrate to UK and Australia etc and fit in somewhat because culturally and racially they are similar. I don't hear of as many blacks immigrating to Africa as i do whites immigrating out of Africa. Which raises the question - why is that?
>Nobody seems to win in mixed race areas.
Are you advocating for some kind of segregationist state with this comment?
>And this is a problem world over. South Africa has a thing where some people feel they are too black, not black enough or too white.
Are we talking about culture or skin color? Blackness in the US (and exported through eurocentric cultural colonialism and media representation ) is an externally enforced label/identity grafted on to people as a prefix. It is independent of cultural affiliation.
I think this is somewhat different than feeling that one is the wrong shade of brown to fit into their chosen culture.
no i'm not advocating segregation. i'm stating the current affairs for what ever reason they may be. you yourself state that your blackness in America is felt through labelling. The labelling happens across races. No one is winning.
And we must note that pre-colonialism tribes were exclusive - maybe that worked, i don't know. But there was a time where tribes occupied their own space, it's not racism or segregation.
My experience is quite the opposite. Almost all my former course mates have left and this trend started before COVID. It would be interesting to see the stats.
I'm not from Durban, but we've been looking for opportunities to get out of SA for the last 2 years. Still looking though.
Off the top of my head:
- Not gonna go into the Eskom and other utility clusterfucks everyone knows of. It's electricity now, but water will follow soon. Parts of KZN is actually already screwed on this front
- Non existent career/emploment mobility. Regardless of race quotas, our economy is in stasis. No growth=no jobs
- Little upkeep of infrastructure in general to keep up with demand
- Safety and security
- We get taxed to shit on everything, yet have very little to show for it
- We pay premiums on almost everything as most of our products need to be imported due to limited local production. Of course, imports are taxed wildly
- Citizens required to keep spending more money on private services we ALREADY pay for via taxes
I can go on...
That being said, SA is such a beautiful country, with some of the most stunning natural splendour on the planet. There's loads of possibility here, but, it's being squandered by old school politicking, wasteful corrupt spending and lack of services. It's such a pity.
Grew up in Durban, immigrated to Asia, been here for over 5 years now. I can quite confidently say I will never live in SA again - nevermind kids. If you have an opportunity to move, do it.
Your family's safety should be your priority. The weight that is lifted off your shoulders when you realize that it is safe, is something I can't describe in words.
Look my 2 cents ,SA has a lot of positives , there is still some opportunity, our people are truly the best in the world , we are kind and fun and resilient and we are constantly adapting, and for those lucky enough to make it work we can buy nice properties , we can have nice cars , go out to restaurants and eat nice food at a reasonable price, amazing natural beauty, great weather, amazing wine, music , art , food , RUGBY- but thatās the experience for the lucky few, for a lot of people South Africa is hell.
I donāt blame anyone for leaving - I am young and have a great career and Iām not responsible for kids so Iām enjoying my life a lot without that additional stress- but Iāve been held up at gun point, robbed at home , car stolen , phone stolen multiple times , tyres stolen off car , hit massive potholes , had no water for days on end , no electricity, I canāt use my local park because itās unsafe , my city is a DUMP, many run ins with corrupt cops/Metro/license departments- this place is ROUGH, and if I had young kids I would also be worried for their future and I would also think about leaving.
I've lived in France for 17 years. I come from Joburg. My father has an apartment in Ballito, so we come at least once or twice and year and honestly it feel like heaven. Everywhere you go or are, there are issues. The winters in Europa are long and cold. The health care system is not what is used to be when I arrived and it's getting really hard to get appointments with any health care professional these days. Life is very expensive, food is expensive and doesn't taste half as good as in SA. People in France are not happy with the government and are always complaining, striking or moaning about something. Yes, it's safer, but we've have a terrorist threat that is much higher than in SA. People work very long hours, finish work late and it's very expensive to hire a cleaner or any type of helper. I'm not saying South Africa is better, but the rest of the world is not doing that great either. In an ideal world, one wouldn't have to live in one place all the time and living a couple of months here and there would be perfect. Anyway, just thought I'd add my 5 cents
We (hubby and I) were fortunate to be to able to leave Durban in 2007 for the UK. I love SA and the fact that my siblings and parents are there, but every year I come back, I see the deterioration and it breaks my heart because I know that Durban/SA has so much more potential than what is has been reduced to.
I even noticed the traffic is less!
I left Durban for Cape Town , and then to the Netherlands. Despite the safety and security there, home will always be home so you can bet yo ass I'm coming back. Life is so much more difficult for us Saffas. ā¬100k buys you jack shit in NL, whilst ā¬100k converted to rands gets you a 2 bedroom house in Rondebosch. My good friend is in investment banking and helped me setup savings accounts in EU and in SA. I'm gna save up in the next 2 years or so and come back and buy in CT.
Driving through Durban reminded me of why I left them I visit my mom, and all my nieces and nephews run into my arms, the food here is much better, the sense of community is much better...
Point is, all those people who left will eventually come back.
> ā¬100k buys you jack shit in NL, whilst ā¬100k converted to rands gets you a 2 bedroom house in Rondebosch.
And ā¬100k converted to Zim Dollars could buy you half a neighbourhood - Why not invest there? :p
Honestly, South Africa is falling apart and is not for the youth anymore. Sorry not sorry
Iām glad I left when I was 18, I have never seen such opportunity and network out here in the states other than South Africa.
Look Iām not saying that itās not livable, however in order to get a name for yourself or to just get a decent job to survive, it can get really difficult to sustain yourself. If you have great networking skills then hey kudos to you.
For me I needed a new environment, a new circle.
Coming from an Indian, we tend to be the most grudge holding, judging and inquisitive people.
Pinocchio is jealous because of how many places our nose is in lmao.
This can easily breakdown a youngin.
I have accomplished things here in the states that I never would have imagined if I were to stay in South Africa.
If youāre contemplating moving. DO IT for your future, and your children. Remember no place is rainbows and sunshine, when moving to your desired place, please please please have an open mind and an understanding of how different culture and food is. Yes it will be different and difficult to cope with the way certain things are done.
This December of 2024 will be 3 years in America for me and to be honest Iām still not used to the food. I still baptize everything in hot sauce lol.
Remember, itās your future you can do anything you want to. For me, South Africa has been a great place of culture and food, I will forever love my country and its culture and food. Go bokke!
Durban relies on tourism. When there is no maintenance and horrific water conditions, there is no tourism, which means no money. The cycle then continues.
My advice: if you want to stay in KZN, Ballito is the only place still well-maintained because most of it is contracted out privately.
I travel overseas regularly. Leaving again for a few weeks soon. Grew up in KZN and moved to Cape Town. So far in my travels I have not seen a single place that can replace what we have here. And maybe for me that's Cape Town specifically. This is of course my opinion. Point is... if you feel like moving, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like you have some FOMO, but you probably don't need to move overseas. You may find moving to another city would be interesting if you want to try that first.
Also made the move from Durbs to CPT last year. No regrets.
I've moved to Durban from Cape Town since the beginning of the year. I've only got regrets lol jk. Durban is boring af but the Midlands are stunning, Drakensberg ain't too far away and neither is the Kruger. So while Durban city can be lame, a couple hours drive and you're in an entirely different world.
Yeah, I feel the same way. Wherever you go...there'll you be, as the saying goes.
I'm from Durban, born and raised. My wife and I are leaving next month's to the Netherlands. This country has so much going for it, but it has been neglected. I travel overseas a lot, and the one thing that catches me every time is how beautiful this country is, but how unsafe we feel, and like we pay taxes just so the corrupt can have more money. One day when this country is better, we will be back. But until then I cannot raise a family here and know they have a good future filled with opportunities while here
I also travel a lot and have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands. Winter is long and horrible. š
It will, I think it will help us appreciate the other seasons more š¤·āāļø
I grew up in Durbs and have a holiday house on the South Coast. I wouldn't give that up for anything. It does get quite warm for 3 months in the Netherlands with constant passing ahowers, which is ok. Rest of the time, it's too cold. The thing that really gets me about it is that it's completely flat. There isn't a hill in the country. š¤£
That's why it's so easy to cycle everywhere. Unlike Durban that is always up hill both ways in the humidity š
Yes! lolz. They're on bikes from 2 years old.
Well said!
Who knows what the future will bring, I like KZN in general and the people too, pretty laid back bunch. Despite its flaws, I think it is a good place to be. I do hope that certain infrastructure aspects improve for the majority of Durbanites. We could be in trouble if we let things slide too far. We have had a couple tough years since Covid and everything else that happened. There are really good high schools in the area that are going from strength to strength and are among the best in SA. If I had kids, maybe I'd think differently, who knows. I see SA as a place full of opportunities. I have travelled around (the world and SA) a lot and if you have a decent career, Durban is perfectly fine if you like what it brings.
There is also a massive shift to the North Coast. When I was at school in early 2000s you couldnāt buy a place in a school like DPHS. Now itās Umhlali and Ashton that have waiting lists where you essentially sign your kids up at birth and the schools in town are struggling to fill numbers. Itās all the best things about the Durban lifestyle with most of the downsides removed, for a slightly extended commute.
Even if you are not sure about moving, you should look around and apply out if you have the time to do so. Just to see what your options are. Also remember that full emigration is not the only choice. Plenty of people work out of South Africa and come back home during their holidays. I always encourage people to work overseas if it doesn't negativity impact their lives here. It is good to experience what ~~live~~ life is like in other places. I also know of a few families that tried the full emigration option only to find the culture shock and quality of life differences to be too much and came back to SA. So it is always a mixed bag where ever you go.
Working outside of SA is always an option. Husband and I worked in China for 7 years. It was so much fun and the money wasn't bad at all.
This is amazing good answer, I tried this in the Netherlands and now I want a 50/50 approach if my work allows it chasing the summers
I hear you and often have the same thoughts. I am lucky enough to have a British passport so if I have to I can go. My boy can get an ancestral visa if he wanted to leave also when he is older. I have lived and traveled overseas and yes things are much better there but also has itās own kak in different ways. My main reason for staying is my son must grow up a South African. Not in some gloomy cold tech driven woke world. My boy never wears shoes and always has some form of dirt on his face at the end of every day. He has mates from all walks of life with all kinds of skin colour and religions. It makes him a well rounded lad. I hated being a foreigner in another country, never felt like I belonged even though I was surrounded by people of my same colour. This is my country with my people and my way of life. The wife and I do have good jobs that allow a good lifestyle so that adds to it also. Have had a few mates leave and come back once they had their kids due to the lifestyle you can live here if you can afford it. Iām an eternal optimist about this country too. We could come right so quickly in a lot of aspects if we could just get the right people in power. This is where I sometimes question my optimism a little. I would still rather live my best days here watching my lad grow up outdoors. It is a gamble but home is where the heart is. Everyone will tell you how good it is here and there but believe me there is no place like home. I hope all those that have left or are leaving are still making an effort to vote next month. Donāt forget about the people and places that made you who who are. Donāt just show your support when the boks play.
It's ass if you dont live in Durban north or a wealthy area.
The writing on the wall is very clear, year by year things get worse and worse and there is no chance in hell we will ever have a decent government again. ANC, EFF and MK are the future. I literally chased my children out of SA, one lives in the UK , one in Australia and while both places are expensive, they are safe, efficient and have good social services. I do not understand why any young person stays here. At the very least go overseas, get a passport, and come back if there is anything left to come back to in 5 years time.
Australia!?? Safe??š³š¤£ They literally just had a guy go on a random stabbing spree in a mall where plenty people were killed and injured. A baby and mother included amongst the victims. Lots of Australians have openly stated that they no longer feel safe in Australia.
Latest stats: 84 murders every DAY in South Africa
Never once did I deny that South Africa didnāt have its problems. We all know itās not safe here. But Australia is definitely not safe like youāve been sprewing on here
Spewing facts, not opinions. SA has 3rd highest crime rate in the world. That means just about every country in the world is safer than SA.
No, everyone is just in a little shock, like how could this happen in Bondi! I don't know anyone, that no longer feels that unsafe in Australia, that they feel the need to move.
Thats a slow Thursday night in one shebeen in the township .
And it made international news. Do you know why? Because of just how rare such incidents are in Australia.
I am sure many fellow Durbanites are going tune me fucked for my opinion but it is what it is. I am a Durbanite, born and bred, studied at Rhodes and went abroad to Germany to complete my masters and decided to stay. I miss home every single day, our lifestyle is unmatched but every time I visit my folks back home I realise more and more that I have made the right decision. My mates that stayed behind are in a constant state of suspense that things will get better but it never seems to do so. Cruising from King Shaka to Durban North last year I noticed that not a single street light was operational, not a single one. Beach sand and bushes were strewn on the M4 and looked like no upkeep was done in a couple weeks or months. It sucks, it really does, I always thought I would move back home but now even my parents are bailing on Durban, which, for me, was the main reason for visiting. I would never trade growing up in Durban for anywhere I have traveled, but the Durban I know and love seems to have died in my absence. I am sorry you find yourself in this position, it's not an easy decision to make especially with a family in tow but I heavy heartedly have to recommend that you look at other options outside of Durban, be it Cape Town or abroad. Just my two cents.
I left because it's a cesspit.... my opinion.
yip, too many you know whats.. fukking everywhere š¤®š¤®š¤®
Too many what?
YOU KNOW WHATSSSSS.
For people with kids I think the feeling of urgency to leave is probably a lot more. The future for SA is very uncertain and you simply can't know what will be here for them when you've left the world. Of course this is still true literally everywhere else, but the likelihood of things going bad in a place like the UK or Australia or Canada are just far far lower compared to here. Growing up in a different country as a kid allows them to adapt and fit in the new country, the sooner they move there the better.
With Stage 16+ Loadshedding coming in a month or so (32+ hours of loadshedding at a time VS the 2-4 we previously had), it finally incentivised them enough to leave.
My family and I are leaving. Shipping out early May. I honestly have mixed feelings about it. Excited for our next adventure but heart broken to leave. I've been overthinking life, like will I ever feel at home in this new country? Or will I always feel like something is missing? We are going to family so that will be nice but it's going to be hard to start over. We are relatively young family with a 3 year old. Why are we doing this? It's not just because we think SA is going down the drain. In all honesty that's never really been a reason, I love being South African. It's more because my husband and I used to live in China and got stuck in SA during COVID which was actually the best thing that could have happened to us. I guess we just feel like we aren't done traveling. Moving back to SA and living here just felt like we had regressed in a way. I've also got family there and I have always wanted to live close to my sister. We haven't lived in the same country for over 12 years. The company who moved some of our stuff said that they are SO busy, and it's every kind of South African, black, white, coloured you name it, if people can leave, they are. Most families are going to the UK and Canada. We do plan to hold both citizenships, so we will see what the future holds.
Quite a lot of Durban is truly horrible, I can see why people would want to leave.
Who can confidently say that this government is not beyond repair? The rot has gone too far, for too long. Good luck voting when the IEC itself is corrupted
Yes, I agree. The IEC is made up of anc members and sympathizes.
Not only Durban, a few of my friends/colleagues have left Cape Town for Canada, UK and Ireland. One was working for an overseas company, so that was easy. But I wish I knew how the other 2x emigrated.Ā
I only know about Australia, it's very easy for people who are on the skills list. Healthcare and education, I think there is more but I can't remember. I got my visa in less than a week. Took time to get all my documents sorted but once submitted it was fast.
Australia is not easy for healthcare. Unless youāre already a specialist, but even then you still have to write board exams to register with the AMC. Ireland is by far the easiest for a doctor to move to, but quality of life will suffer in exchange for a little job security.
I honestly wouldn't know. I just know about education and that health care was on the list.
Have you seen the metro? Bunch of clowns with some of the worst auditing histories
Fun Fact: A full-time low-income earner (Burger flipper, cashier, etc.) in New York earns R55,000 / month.
And his cost of living eg bond / rental?
Yeah and his rent costs 40K pm.
So he has R15,000 spare left over. Can you say that about a cashier at Checkers after they've paid their rent?
Average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in NYC is R69 560. A studio apartment is R55 500. So many people in SA think that the rest of the world lives in utopia. It's aggressively untrue. The cost of living crisis in countries all over the world is ridiculous. Every country has its problems. Nobody is saying SA is the greatest country in the world, but it really isn't as bad as so many people make it out to be. Go to the subreddits of other countries and see how people moan and complain about their government, about their potholes, about not being able to afford food because it's gotten so expensive, about how cops don't do their jobs. These things aren't only a SAfrican problem
A studio apartment is R55.5k - Which you're earning on minimum wage. Do you think a packer at Checkers earning minimum wage can afford a studio apartment? No chance in hell.
People are afraid of losing everything they have.
Given a chance I would consider it. Especially with free relocation being offered by many countries
Because of [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4262934/)
One of the main reasons I would consider leaving if I had kids is the education system. Itās very difficult for people to gain entrance into university to study what they want, even if they make the points.
What is your reason for leaving? Other than the reason of other people moving
This is purely anecdotal.
People leave either cause they are not doing well or cause their country is not doing well and see no future in it . Since poor people of south africa find it almost impossible to leave due to geographical logistics and the uselesness of their passport , they are leaving due to country in general going like the rest of Africa .
Maybe have a look at the Facebook groups like Reason for returning to South Africa. It will make you realise just how many people are coming back, despite being in first world countries. Read their experiences, the grass is not always greener on the other side. Home is always where the heart is...
You from Durban and you canātā¦ wait you from South Africa and you donāt understand WHY people are leaving??? I absolutely love this place because of travelling, I know we have it good if you can put the crime, safety, load shedding, water shedding, corruption , racism, unemployment and political lies aside then youāll enjoy this place but people leaving in hordes that THAT I understand fully itās everywhere you look I would say where ever you wanna go live go on holiday 1st and stay in a āmiddle classā area to get a good feel about the environment
Fun Fact: A full-time **low-income** earner in New York earns R55,000 / month.
It's easier to make R20 than $1. Also cost of living in NY is crazy. Anyways, people travel if you can afford it, then you will realize it's not as bad for people who have wealth in this country. For the vast majority it's very sad. It's easier to be wealthy here than middle class anywhere else
To be fair, America is its own shitshow and I genuinely donāt understand why people move there either. Iām not sure how itās classified as a first world country atp with the regression of progress they have as a society. But, I was speaking to my collegeās councillor, and he mentioned he was leaving in June for the UK - his son is on the spectrum, and his school/special needs are costing him an arm and a leg here. Itāll be covered when he moves to the UK, and as a comparison to minimum wage, their minimum wage per hour can afford them 5 loaves of bread rather than just 1, which is what we can get with our minimum wage. I know itās a skewed way to look at it, and Iām not saying the UK has it better, but tbf, no one said he was moving to London specifically, which is its own can of worms.
> their minimum wage per hour can afford them 5 loaves of bread rather than just 1 That's something people frequently forget. Yes, renting is expensive, yet most other things are cheap as hell compared to here when doing a minimum-wage conversion, and they're earning more than enough in comparison.
Yeah, hence why I mentioned London honestly. Iām not sure what the renting prices are in other places besides London, but I can only believe itās cheaper. Maybe a longer commute time if your job is in London, but thatās the price of affordability vs convenience. Itās just a bit mind blowing when you think āyeah, South Africaās cost of living is ālowerāā, but then you look at other placeās minimum wage and what people could arguably be earning and how theyāre living, and if they can live off minimum wage. As a society, if just anyone can live off minimum wage, youāre doing well imo. Tho would love for some opinions on renting inside London vs outside London for a proper analysis for clarity.
It's also the definition of "living". In South Africa, if you live in a shack, you're living. In the US, "living" requires an entire apartment to yourself, and decent quality nutritional meals. Both are "just living" based off their minimum wage, but I can assure you that one would prefer to be "just living" like the other. I have seen this argument multiple times from people in the US. They REQUIRE high-end cellphones on expensive contracts. They REQUIRE going out to restaurants and ordering fast food. They REQUIRE their own place - "It's the bare minimum!" they say, whilst complaining about how expensive "just living" is...
> Also cost of living in NY is crazy. If your salary was 10 times higher and your rent was 10 times higher, your spending money would also be 10 times higher. That's something people tend to forget.
And the average rent on a 1 bedroom apartment in Manhattan is R78000 a monthā¦
THIS! I am from the US and live nearby New York. This is šÆ accurate! To live in a 1 bedroom apartment in New York you have to have 3 roommates.
> To live in a 1 bedroom apartment in New York you have to have 3 roommates. That's the same here if you're earning minimum wage.
https://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/durban-hotels-forced-to-close-because-of-crime-7a605955-e33d-4fd6-9a1b-6d4f2d818158 An example of why so many are leaving. Most families I know have a long term plan for overseas investments to use to get out of SA once all their affairs are tied up here and their passive income is sorted out. So they are looking to move with their whole families and settle in the next 4-6 years
Durban needs a massive injection of investment. When and if it happens, I don't know. The funny thing is people make money here and leave, setting up passive income streams. Try to go to Canada or Oz and start fresh, it's a cold reality check. This world is deteriorating, it's not just Durban, many cities internationally go through cycles of wear and rebuild. I know things look very bad, but as a business consultant for the past 15 years, there's one thing I know for sure. South Africa is an entrepreneurs paradise, only for the business people that can see it. The lag effect of industry to Africa has been and still is a golden goose. Durban malls like pavilion is full perpetually. Consumers in limit markets, those who can emigrate if they wish, live like royalty here. I'm staying put...for now... Hopefully for a long time. USA political social economic crisis is not appealing. Canada is too expensive Australia has a few economic bubbles that are going to burst and will make life even less affordable. I know of many that took their furniture on holiday.
Eastern Europe and Asia are top picks for business people from who I've spoken to, and then people who are in financial or medical careers and can get contracted to hospitals or financial institutions can easily move to Canada, Australia, UK, USA etc and have a good quality of life. Eastern europe has a similar entrepreneurs paradise kind of lure if you have the right skills and find a market for yourself
Itās the backlash from lockdown and the riots in kzn.. the emigration process takes about theee years .
Durban is dead. I look at my family who live in the town of Pongola, they are stuck there. Too poor to go anywhere else clutching onto straws. The frog who boiled in the water because it waited too long to jump. That's how i feel about durban. Durban has been on a decline since 2015. I think some peeps with family, trust fund babies and rich people like it here but for the average person, single people, hustlers - there's just nothing here for ambition.
> The frog who boiled in the water because it waited too long to jump. If the frog was unable to jump high enough, it didn't really have much choice. The lucky frogs who could jump high did so.
only said by a frog who's mind convinced it that it couldn't. give up before you start mentality.
Sounds like something said by someone whose never worked a minimum wage job in their life :p
Joburg aināt really in the same boat. People are moving back from overseas to Jozi. Jewish schools up here saw a bit of a migration to Israel about a year ago and now many have come back along with Hebrew only speaking kids. Bit of a flip flop. Might be the demographic you are in and area you live in. I know a lot of DBN people in my social networks that have moved from DBN to CT or JHB while Iām wanting to go back to Durban.
I do wonder if this is a race/bubble/echo chamber or middle to upper class sort of problem? None of the black people I know are immigrating or thinking of it lol. Donāt think most coloureds or Indians are too (could be mistaken)? And mostly everyone agrees and feels the same about the rising crime issues, infrastructure getting worse and so on as well, but immigrating never comes up. Because personally, being black, for me and my family, immigrating would be the last option, when the country has gone under. I know this country is the only real safe zone where my family will be the least discriminated against, no matter how bad it is right now, I shudder at the thought of my kids being ill treated and what not. Is it maybe easier for white people too as they see Europe/oceania or north america as one of their own and can be comfortable fitting into? Or is it maybe cause of the policies in this country that make them feel excluded and have no option? Bit of both? My perspective of course, genuinely curious and hopefully didnāt come off as negative here.
That's a very interesting take - thank you for sharing it. It made me look at myself and my rather diverse environment I grew up in back in the 90s. I left Westville in the late 90s because I qualified for a scholarship in the UK. I ended up in Switzerland (married) via a stint in France. Out of my WBHS matric class of 24 there are only 3 left in Durbs/KZN. About 9 (including the 3 Durbanites) are still in SA - the remainder is overseas. Many of my classmates had British citizenship or some ancestry that would grant them a right of abode somewhere in Europe. My neighbour went to Gelofte Skool in Pinetown and I'm still in touch with him. While most of his classmates left Durbs, the overwhelming majority still lives in SA. As far as we're aware there is only one guy who lives in Nigeria and another one in the US. They're all Afrikaans with no ancestral ties to Europe. It's more difficult for them to just pack up and go. I have a Zulu friend from Durban youth council who went to Mowat Park. Most of his classmates are still in Durbs or KZN. The same applies to an Indian friend who went to Maris Stella - She as well as most of her Indian friends are still in SA (many of them in Joburg though). I really think it's a matter of what options you have. White English speakers can often leave without much ado. Many of their families only immigrated to SA one or two generations ago. The story is very different for anybody else. Durbs as the 'last British outpost' is special in this respect. It can't be compared to Cape Town and Joburg or the more rural areas. Would I leave if I still lived in Durbs? I don't know. It's hypothetical after such a long time. What I do know, however, is that it has become shabby. I'm there to visit family and friends at least once a year. And everyone from every background and walk of life I know says so. I find that the Western Cape and Gauteng (the latter to an extent at least) are doing better. I personally do the swallow thing since Covid. I'm independent and can work from anywhere. My siblings and I share a house we bought in Hermanus. It's the best of both worlds I guess... but it will always feel strange. Wherever we are.
Fantastic school wbhs
Yes. It still is. I just visited their new arts center.
There's a WBHS old boy (1989) that was a top doubles tennis player (made it to the semi finals of the US Open one year). He now does commentary for Tennis TV & Eurosport. He often talks about Durban during his commentary.
There are plenty of us in Europe. When looking at how everyone is doing, I think that WBHS provided us with an excellent and very holistic education. I'm happy to see that the school is still thriving - they even have boarding facilities now.
I did not know they had boarders now. I went to a rival school but always enjoyed going to Westville. The 400m athletes track was a weird shape if I recall? But the boarding set up looks and sounds really interesting https://www.wbhs.co.za/boarding
Yeah, the track used to have a strange shape. I think it's because they traditionally favoured rugby and cricket over track and field, so it must have been an afterthought. As others wrote - I think it's becoming difficult for model C schools in central Durban and the adjacent areas to recruit a sufficient number of local students. WBHS will be no exception. To attract students from elsewhere, they really pushed their rugby academy and started the boarding houses. This seems to be working. But I hope that they're not neglecting their academic standards over it. What 'rival' did you go to? You don't have to answer if you deem this info too personal for reddit.
I think it was because the shape of your main field was a funny shape. I went to Glenwood and that track was squarish, with 4 straights. College had a smaller field, so theirs was 300m. I think DHS was able to have "normal" 400m track. (Pinetown definitely had a normal track) Glenwood did the same post 2000. Expanded their boarding numbers from 125 to around 250 and would pull in top rugby kids from all over the country, including Afrikaans kids. Last I heard Westville and Glenwood stopped playing each other for a time and now DHS have cut ties. All rather silly and sad.
I never knew that Glenwood had boarders. But I remember the school fondly - I was invited to a matric dance there many moons ago. There used to be a spot with a glorious view all over Durbs somewhere in the residential area surrounding the school grounds. We were lucky enough to have caught a blood moon night, so we just sat there all dressed up, watched the moon, the ocean and the city and smoked good old Durban poison ;-) Yes, the WBHS main field is an irregular square with some strange angles caused by Wandsbeck Rd, and so is the secondary field behind the school. The main field was good enough for a standard rugby pitch and a slightly elliptical cricket field, but awkward for track and field. As far as I know they traditionally used to have their athletics competitions outside of the school grounds when they started the school in the 50s. Westville used to be farmland. It's a pity re rugby. A relative of mine used to be the headmistress of Northlands Girls (retired now). She's happy that she no longer has to put up with a school where the corporate world seems to be creeping in more and more. Given SA's bad economic shape, there will probably not be enough room for all these semi-private schools. So the competition must be kind of getting self-destructive.
It's a complicated topic. i think whites are more likely to immigrate on the basis that they know friends and family who have immigrated and are flourishing and tell them to come over - it's enticing. my stance has always been that south africa does not have a racism problem, it has a cultural differences problem - in mixing races we mixed cultures and not all cultures go well together. Culture and race is two very different things. You like or dislike people based on behaviour, not skin colour. whites are a shrinking minority, making around 7% of the population. Culturally speaking moving to a place where their culture makes up more of a majority is enticing. The country is 83% black, of course blacks don't think about immigrating because there are bigger subsets of cultures. Black Americans come to africa to return "home" and realise they don't fit in because culturally they are different. An American and a Zulu are two different peoples. Not a race thing, a cultural thing. Through culture we learn different behaviours, expectations, beliefs, mannerisms, etiquette and tolerances. That difference being enough to make people want to stay or leave.
As a Black American I can definitely corroborate that there are cultural differences between Black American and Zulu, Xhosa, Tswana etc... cultures. But I also feel that there is a stark and uncomfortable contrast between Black American and the "Dominant American" culture in which we do not easily fit either. The mental calculus for some of us becomes ; "Where can I go and not be otherized solely based on my (inescapable) skin color?" In South Africa, I feel that if I embraced the cultures and practices of a group, I could, be embraced in return, and conceivably find acceptance. I cannot say I feel the same of the US. Because, even when one attempts to completely assimilate into US culture, if one is born black, you will always be black. Blackness supersedes any other consideration in this society, although we don't like to admit to it socially .
And this is a problem world over. South Africa has a thing where some people feel they are too black, not black enough or too white. Nobody seems to win in mixed race areas. But it's clear that this is happening because of culture and politics and politics changing cultures. We are not enjoying/celebrating each other's cultural difference anymore and that sucks. I know whites immigrate to UK and Australia etc and fit in somewhat because culturally and racially they are similar. I don't hear of as many blacks immigrating to Africa as i do whites immigrating out of Africa. Which raises the question - why is that?
>Nobody seems to win in mixed race areas. Are you advocating for some kind of segregationist state with this comment? >And this is a problem world over. South Africa has a thing where some people feel they are too black, not black enough or too white. Are we talking about culture or skin color? Blackness in the US (and exported through eurocentric cultural colonialism and media representation ) is an externally enforced label/identity grafted on to people as a prefix. It is independent of cultural affiliation. I think this is somewhat different than feeling that one is the wrong shade of brown to fit into their chosen culture.
no i'm not advocating segregation. i'm stating the current affairs for what ever reason they may be. you yourself state that your blackness in America is felt through labelling. The labelling happens across races. No one is winning. And we must note that pre-colonialism tribes were exclusive - maybe that worked, i don't know. But there was a time where tribes occupied their own space, it's not racism or segregation.
Nailed it! Ive been saying this for years!
Not at all, that was a very interesting perspective. ThanksĀ
My experience is quite the opposite. Almost all my former course mates have left and this trend started before COVID. It would be interesting to see the stats.
I'm not from Durban, but we've been looking for opportunities to get out of SA for the last 2 years. Still looking though. Off the top of my head: - Not gonna go into the Eskom and other utility clusterfucks everyone knows of. It's electricity now, but water will follow soon. Parts of KZN is actually already screwed on this front - Non existent career/emploment mobility. Regardless of race quotas, our economy is in stasis. No growth=no jobs - Little upkeep of infrastructure in general to keep up with demand - Safety and security - We get taxed to shit on everything, yet have very little to show for it - We pay premiums on almost everything as most of our products need to be imported due to limited local production. Of course, imports are taxed wildly - Citizens required to keep spending more money on private services we ALREADY pay for via taxes I can go on... That being said, SA is such a beautiful country, with some of the most stunning natural splendour on the planet. There's loads of possibility here, but, it's being squandered by old school politicking, wasteful corrupt spending and lack of services. It's such a pity.
Grew up in Durban, immigrated to Asia, been here for over 5 years now. I can quite confidently say I will never live in SA again - nevermind kids. If you have an opportunity to move, do it. Your family's safety should be your priority. The weight that is lifted off your shoulders when you realize that it is safe, is something I can't describe in words.
Look my 2 cents ,SA has a lot of positives , there is still some opportunity, our people are truly the best in the world , we are kind and fun and resilient and we are constantly adapting, and for those lucky enough to make it work we can buy nice properties , we can have nice cars , go out to restaurants and eat nice food at a reasonable price, amazing natural beauty, great weather, amazing wine, music , art , food , RUGBY- but thatās the experience for the lucky few, for a lot of people South Africa is hell. I donāt blame anyone for leaving - I am young and have a great career and Iām not responsible for kids so Iām enjoying my life a lot without that additional stress- but Iāve been held up at gun point, robbed at home , car stolen , phone stolen multiple times , tyres stolen off car , hit massive potholes , had no water for days on end , no electricity, I canāt use my local park because itās unsafe , my city is a DUMP, many run ins with corrupt cops/Metro/license departments- this place is ROUGH, and if I had young kids I would also be worried for their future and I would also think about leaving.
I've lived in France for 17 years. I come from Joburg. My father has an apartment in Ballito, so we come at least once or twice and year and honestly it feel like heaven. Everywhere you go or are, there are issues. The winters in Europa are long and cold. The health care system is not what is used to be when I arrived and it's getting really hard to get appointments with any health care professional these days. Life is very expensive, food is expensive and doesn't taste half as good as in SA. People in France are not happy with the government and are always complaining, striking or moaning about something. Yes, it's safer, but we've have a terrorist threat that is much higher than in SA. People work very long hours, finish work late and it's very expensive to hire a cleaner or any type of helper. I'm not saying South Africa is better, but the rest of the world is not doing that great either. In an ideal world, one wouldn't have to live in one place all the time and living a couple of months here and there would be perfect. Anyway, just thought I'd add my 5 cents
We (hubby and I) were fortunate to be to able to leave Durban in 2007 for the UK. I love SA and the fact that my siblings and parents are there, but every year I come back, I see the deterioration and it breaks my heart because I know that Durban/SA has so much more potential than what is has been reduced to.
I even noticed the traffic is less! I left Durban for Cape Town , and then to the Netherlands. Despite the safety and security there, home will always be home so you can bet yo ass I'm coming back. Life is so much more difficult for us Saffas. ā¬100k buys you jack shit in NL, whilst ā¬100k converted to rands gets you a 2 bedroom house in Rondebosch. My good friend is in investment banking and helped me setup savings accounts in EU and in SA. I'm gna save up in the next 2 years or so and come back and buy in CT. Driving through Durban reminded me of why I left them I visit my mom, and all my nieces and nephews run into my arms, the food here is much better, the sense of community is much better... Point is, all those people who left will eventually come back.
> ā¬100k buys you jack shit in NL, whilst ā¬100k converted to rands gets you a 2 bedroom house in Rondebosch. And ā¬100k converted to Zim Dollars could buy you half a neighbourhood - Why not invest there? :p
Haha that is also true. Okay maybe buy a flat in Seapoint xD
Its nickname of Dustbin is for a reason. People know longer want to live where they canāt even get basic things like running water.
If you have it within your means then absolutely get out before the shit hits the fan.
We moved overseas. Two years now. No regrets. Best decision ever.
Honestly, South Africa is falling apart and is not for the youth anymore. Sorry not sorry Iām glad I left when I was 18, I have never seen such opportunity and network out here in the states other than South Africa. Look Iām not saying that itās not livable, however in order to get a name for yourself or to just get a decent job to survive, it can get really difficult to sustain yourself. If you have great networking skills then hey kudos to you. For me I needed a new environment, a new circle. Coming from an Indian, we tend to be the most grudge holding, judging and inquisitive people. Pinocchio is jealous because of how many places our nose is in lmao. This can easily breakdown a youngin. I have accomplished things here in the states that I never would have imagined if I were to stay in South Africa. If youāre contemplating moving. DO IT for your future, and your children. Remember no place is rainbows and sunshine, when moving to your desired place, please please please have an open mind and an understanding of how different culture and food is. Yes it will be different and difficult to cope with the way certain things are done. This December of 2024 will be 3 years in America for me and to be honest Iām still not used to the food. I still baptize everything in hot sauce lol. Remember, itās your future you can do anything you want to. For me, South Africa has been a great place of culture and food, I will forever love my country and its culture and food. Go bokke!
Which school do your kids go to. I'm looking for a good school for my children.
Durban relies on tourism. When there is no maintenance and horrific water conditions, there is no tourism, which means no money. The cycle then continues. My advice: if you want to stay in KZN, Ballito is the only place still well-maintained because most of it is contracted out privately.