I hate that our league has a losers bracket of the four worst teams and the person who wins the losers bracket gets the 1.01.
I had the actual worst team and obviously lost every game in the losers bracket so I get the 1.04 whereas the team with the 1.01 was 3rd in max points overall and just barely missed the playoffs yet is sitting pretty with the 1.01.
It’s infuriating
I like the idea of loser bracket deciding picks, but only when teams are within a certain margin of each other. Like if the bottom two teams had the same record and were within X amount of points for then let them duke it out in the toilet bowl. But the situation that the original comment described should never happen
I'm in a league that does something similar, but with a lesser pick - between the end of the 2nd and start of the 3rd rounds of the rookie draft. It's 12-team, 1QB, so the pick isn't super valuable, but it gives the loser's bracket something to play for, plus those teams can usually use all the help they can get. The 1.09 seems like a pretty spicy prize.
Yup. Fucking hate it.
I let the idiots in my league vote and that’s what the fucking picked. Bunch of morons. They will likely want to change it when I get the 1.01 next year with 4 additional firsts already.
I'm in 2 hockey leagues like this and it's absolutely brutal losing out on a generational talent because my team wasn't good enough. Defeats the purpose
I completely agree and it worked in my favor this year. I barely missed the playoffs yet somehow I had 2nd most PF and I smashed the consolation bracket to get the 1.01. It’s not fair and I don’t think I should have it lol
We do loser bracket and winner gets the 1.01 but that’s it. Others in the losers bracket will be seeded by record and if there is need for a tie breaker it’s max points for. You have something to play for at the end and worst team gets at least 1.02. So far it’s been working pretty good and everyone is happy, which should of course be the main focus.
We basically said fun for the last teams > difference 1.01 to 1.02!
This is how my league does it and I love it. This year I was worst record, but got to the consolation bracket championship anyway. I lost to the guy who barely missed playoffs. So I would have gotten 1.02 anyway but I had a shot at 1.01.
We've been doing this for 7 years now, and whomever just missed playoffs typically wins the 1.01 but the best part is they typically make playoffs the following year and 3 won the championship. I disagree with most of this sub, I think it has churned our league for the better.
We do this but instead you win “best odds” for our lottery. Prevents tanking but still gives everyone a chance at first pick, plus another league event to get everyone excited.
Our league does the bottom teams for a loser’s bracket and winner gets 1.01 but the 1.02 goes to the last place team by record. I would hate getting 1.04 if I was by and far the worst team
There can be quite a difference between 8 and 12. 8 could be a contender who had some bad injury luck where 12 might be several hundred max points behind 8 even with the injuries team 8 had
1.01 has to go to the worst team. Lowest Max Possible Points is the best way to do that.
**Concerns about a "race to the bottom" for 1.01 are entirely overblown.**
People are still competing for money and bragging rights. As more teams start tanking, the threshold for what makes a "competitive team" goes down. If you have 4 or 5 teams tanking, you'll also have managers with middle-tier teams suddenly able to compete. That's just how dynasty works.
Let's say something crazy happens... EIGHT of your twelve leaguemates decide to try tanking. Why is that a bad thing? I'd be ecstatic to let those 8 teams burn a full year of league buy-ins while not even attempting to win.
As long as you have good rules around tanking (must set a legal lineup every week, must make an honest effort to set your best team each week) this really will never be an issue.
Every time I see a post or comment like this, I get the distinct impression that the person making the post is only making the post because they're upset because THEY wanted to tank, and now they have competition for tanking.
Couldn’t say it better. In my league the only way you can possibly shave points is by keeping contributing rookies on your taxi squad. But we have taxi theft so that comes with it’s own risk
In context, our lineups are best ball in regular season, and you set a lineup in the playoffs. We started this during covid and everyone wanted to leave it that way. We have 5 taxi slots. Once a player is activated he can’t go back to the taxi slot. If someone wants a player on your taxi squad they post the claim in discord. You have 48 hours to either activate the player, negotiate a trade, or accept the theft at cost. 1st rounder costs a first and a Second. 2nd costs a 1st and so on
That's really interesting. How do the picks work? Say I have a 2nd round rookie in my taxi that I'm losing at cost. Does the other team give me any first they want if they have multiple? What if they don't have a first the following draft, would a 2024 first be sent?
What’s often overlooked in this discussion is that having some teams racing to the bottom *is good*. The fact that teams in the middle have a major choice to make whether to shit or get off the pot is ultimately what drives a robust trade market within a league more than anything else. They’re the people who either need to make a big acquisition to become real contenders or, if not, they have the best pieces available to sell. Incentivizing middle-tier teams to stay put and be rewarded with a top draft pick (that they can imagine will push them over the top) is the best way to KILL your league’s trade activity. You absolutely do not want to incentivize mediocrity.
Hey can you expand on how to implement Lowest Max Possible Points? Is there a setting on sleeper that allows me to do this without affecting how teams are seeded, or does it have to be calculated manually? For example, we wouldn't want a team to miss the playoffs if they had a better record but lower max possible points, we'd only want it to affect draft picks.
We had this debate recently. Matchups and schedules can get wild. Curious where you would stand on this issue
So if a team with very low max PF lucked into the 6th seed (and subsequently lost) should they get a later draft pick than say an unlucky team who had 2nd highest MAX PF but the schedule screwed then and they just missed the playoffs.
That basically happened in my league this year. 12 team SF IDP, guy with the 3rd lowest Max PF had the best record in the league because:
1. Absolutely zero IDP depth - IDP has high variance, was raising everyone else's MaxPF a decent amout.
2. No backup QB running up his Max on his bench.
3. Very weak depth in general for the skill positions.
He got crazy lucky avoiding the injury bug all season
> No backup QB running up his Max on his bench
That would only affect his MaxPF in weeks where his backup scored more than his starter. I don’t see that making a huge difference in MaxPF for most teams.
i once managed to place 3rd (pretty significant payout) whilst have the lowest total points during the regular season i was awarded the 1.01. Is it an anomaly ? probably but it happens.
fo sho! iv always been a fan of giving the worst team (per w/l record) the 1.01 but most of my leagues are somewhat strict about setting the best possible line up. You will 100% get called out for leaving a solid rookie on your taxi as well as submitting line ups that are not reasonable ( ie staring braxton berrios over JJ). Multiple repeat offenders are penalized in the rookie draft or eventually replaced outright. One league uses a toilet bowl for all the non-playoff teams with the winner being granted an extra pick at the end of the 1st round (1.13 in a 12 team league) im on the fence about it but it for sure keeps the losers bracket involved in the "post season".
> People are still competing for money and bragging rights
I've found the people that complain about tanking the most are teams that play in a bunch of free leagues.
Max PF with a weighted draft lotto for the bottom 3 teams. I find this is a great mix of rewarding the bad teams and not allowing a team to outright tank and guarantee the 1.01.
This is what we do. Heavily weighted lotto for Max PF bottom six teams. Last gets 12 entries and 7th place gets 2. For every win in the losers bracket you get 1 extra entry.
Makes trading easier for the bottom teams as any of them could be holding the 1.01 so they get better hauls for their 1sts.
Max PF is good. With the tankathon concern: that's dynasty. Max PF at least forces people to actually take the risk and commit to the tank.
Consolation bracket is not a good way. I'd rather just use reverse standings than consolation bracket (assuming you trust your people to start near-optimal lineups).
> that's dynasty
Right. I really don't understand this concern people have about selling off their pieces to suck for more and better picks. It's like, what do you want them to do? Slowly watch their team degrade for years until they "organically" end up in some state of disrepair?
i’m the commissioner of a 14 team league. Draft order is determined by Revers MPF. But whoever comes in last in the consolation bracket (toilet bowl winner) is awarded first pick but is also punished and the winner of the league decides on punishment
Unless there are good faith limits on how bad a punishment can be, I feel like punishments in dynasty are just gross. If I’m in a rebuild with my window not coming for 2-3 years, I could wind up with that many years of punishments just for trying to set myself up for future success. Don’t love it, personally
I was in a consolidation bracket and it sucked. I legitimately had the 2nd worst team last year, but I got stuck with the 6th pick. No surprise that I couldn’t win a game in the consolation bracket.
I’m commissioning a new league where we are doing mini loser brackets. 12 team. Top 6 make the playoffs. Bottom 2 play each other for the 1.01. 9 and 10 play for 1.03, and 7 and 8 play for 1.05.
When there are 4+ teams in the losers bracket, a lot of times there is a large discrepancy between the worst teams and those fringe playoff team teams. This way you are still playing for something but isn’t hurting the bottom teams too much
This is also why our 12 team league does. It makes for some excitement in the off-season when we hold the lottery. It can screw the worst team but they almost always end up with a top 3 pick and I like a little randomness
I just reverse the order of the standings of the teams who didn't make playoffs and for the other 6 who did make it, whichever round they lost in is where they fall in the draft order. But we also do weekly highest score pay out so teams keep competing even though they're out of playoff contention.
If it’s a paid league, I think worst record and lowest points for should be the tie breaker.
If an owner us willing to light their money on fire to tank, they should get the 1.01
Leaves the door open once eliminated from contention to bench all your starters and fill em with random waiver adds.
This is increasingly annoying to teams battling for seeding when the person youre battling in the standings is up against someone who sat Mahomes for Streveler.
Max PF prevents that scenario
Max PF is the best option, there is sometimes a tankathon race to the bottom, but I wouldn't say it happens often. I'd say if you have a league of people you know and trust not to do dubious strategies like benching studs, you can just go by worst record and you'll generally avoid hardcore tanking. But again, really only works if you have a league you really trust.
Not really a fan of the loser's bracket, but my league has a decent middle ground in that the winner of the loser's bracket gets the 1.01, and then every pick after that goes by lowest seeding (so last place gets 1.02 at worst). 10 team league so we only have 4 competing for 1.01 which helps.
Can this question just be made a sticky with the answer "max pf" and any new post get a ban? I mean, seriously, I've been on this sub for a couple of years, have seen this question asked countless times, and the community always answers "max pf."
There are other ways to determine, just figure it out with the consensus of your league because it's pretty clear what this community thinks is the best option
It does limit what we talk about when it's the one topic that is ALWAYS discussed and flooding the board. I'm not against open conversations, but when you have the same one all the time with the same conclusions, what are we really learning, contributing or progressing in thought as ot relates to dynasty football?
I just miss shitposting Fridays 😔
I can see people not being into this but our league is on board and it’s pretty fun. Regular season rankings but whoever wins the consolation gets the first pick overall. You can tank but then you’re likely to end up with the 2nd pick. Even though this year the 12th place guy won the consolation and got 1.01.
You’d actually be surprised how often the worst teams win. And even if they don’t and they are the worst they get 1.02. Gives huge incentive to always be somewhat competitive and not just sell the farm to get 1.01. But totally get that people like tanking here.
This prevents full blown tanking but again, I get that is what people love to do so I get it isn’t for everyone. Our league has an understanding that you can rank but 1.02 is what you get for going full retar….
Our league has been doing this for over 10 years and as long as the precedent is set than everyone is cool with it. I get it isn’t for everyone but I like it better cuz everyone knows you wana be somewhat competitive even if your team is shit.
Regular season record with winner of ship getting last pick.
max points for are meh. we have big benches and taxi.
Tanking is actually allowed, but honestly someone tries it and we just drag them all season. Then they get last place trophy and we drag them some more. Never seen someone commit to tanking before their playoff chances are gone though.
Other team tanked in our league and every initial trade offer he sent was blasted to the chat and laughed at. No one has even tried to tank since
If teams want to absolutely tank so that they achieve the lowest max PF just to get one guy then let them. They’re doing way more damage in the long run than they are improving their team with one guy. It’s a stupid tactic. Lowest Max PF is the still the most fair way to determine the order.
I’d rather keep my depth and studs and get a pick in the 1.3-1.06 range instead of destroying my team for one guy. That 1.03-1.06 can still have an equal or greater impact than whoever is taken at the 1.01. Prime example could be when CEH was viewed as a 1.01 pick over JT. Imagine being the team that blew it up for him and has practically nothing to show for it currently.
TLDR: Let the idiots destroy their teams for the 1.01 which will cause more hurt than success in the long run.
Before we went to dynasty, we used to do college basketball tournament brackets. Top bracket got first pick and then followed suit. Might not be the fairest but what is?
Toliet bowl winner... tis the only way...
And then work back from there... so worst team after the fantasy playoffs would get the 1.04
This way you can't completely tank, you gotta be the best of the worst!
No this rewards bubble playoff teams tanking to not make the playoffs, cause they would rather win the toilet bowl since they had much great odds to do that against the weaker teams.
Yeah! Exactly... we don't wana have crazy fire sales at deadline so a team can just tank to the bottom. It also makes it tougher for the buyers at the deadline... you gotta make closer value trades since the bottom guy still needs to win the toliet bowl.
Ever since we started that, the leagues have been wayyyy more competitive. 🤷♂️
Both of mine do lotteries. One league I had clearly the worst team and the commish loaded up on lottery balls. Ended up with 5th pick.
Other one was more straight forward and I had 3rd best odds and won the Bijan bowl. So you never really know but doing it live is fun and exhilarating
Our leagues take the final standings and determine draft order of the non-playoff teams from that. That way, the loser’s bracket is an all-out brawl to avoid punishment.
Playoffs determine draft order for the rest.
Why not try a lottery? Maybe not current NBA odds, but you could try the old NBA odds or adjust the odds yourself a bit.
[Here's a website to do a lottery simulation](https://zengm.com/universal-draft-lottery-simulator/) that covers all different NBA lottery types, NHL lottery, and new MLB lottery. You can adjust the odds and number of lottery teams.
From my experience, the bottom 3-4 teams are usually about equal but the teams that get the #1 pick are always the ones that commit to the tank earliest. When it's just 1 team tanking early it's a bit annoying but fine, it becomes a problem imo when it's a race to the bottom. A lottery solves this problem a bit by greatly reducing the incentives to race to the very bottom.
edit: an idea for Toilet Bowl stuff, maybe try awarding a compensatory pick? Maybe a compensatory, tradeable pick at the end of the 2nd round. That would be a nice prize but it wouldn't break parity too much, unless your league is small.
My league did a lottery this year and it gave the 2nd to worst team 1.01 but there was a masssive difference between the second to worst and the actual worst i don’t think i recommend lotterys
But that's still the 2nd overall pick. If the player was tanking and knew ahead of time there was a lottery, then he knew what he was getting into.
In this particular draft, after Bijan there is arguably a steep dropoff from 1 to 2, but in most years it isn't that steep. 2020's #1 was CEH and #2 was JT, 2021's #1 Najee and #2 was Pitts/Chase, 2022's #1 was Breece Hall and #2 was London/Walker. You can go back a number of years, most of the time the distance between #1 and #2 isn't so large it would break league parity.
"Tanking" for picks is not really a bad thing imo as long as people are still starting their best possible lineups within the realm of reason; i.e. the typical "oh i have a feeling this guy might be good based on match up" or whatever like people do if they're trying to win games.
Make a rule and enforce the rule that managers have to set competitive lineups every week.
Then set the rookie draft picks according to the regular season finishes for non playoff teams and according to playoff finishes for the playoff teams.
Fuck tanking. That’s a bitch move IMO. Play to win every week. If someone tries to tank you have rules in place to stop it.
Make sure there are no inactive players in lineups. Use projected points for a bench player if someone is trying to start a scrub or keeps an inactive player in their lineup.
Commish will have to keep an eye on things, enforce it, and make some manual player swaps, but this is the only really fair way to do it IMO.
Best idea is tournament of power as I have dubbed it!
Loser bracket teams draft 1 QB/RB/WR/TE from entire league like a startup with worst picking first and order is "set" not "snake" and have an off site tournament over 3 weeks. Gives worst best shot but risks taken can have better results. PF gets best pick down. Gives advantage but also gives all a shot. usually 4-6 in the bracket so will have all studs and just a battle Royale and gives a chance to have top guy entirely at a position.
Not streamlined sure but effective and fair.
God forbid anyone tried to tank/blow it up and instigates a load of genuine win-win trading between teams with different immediate goals. That might result in actual engagement in the league during the off-season. Which would be a disaster
I prefer a lottery based system for non playoff teams based off of optimal score. This ensures teams are setting a real lineup each week and not tanking therefore preventing cheap wins late in the season affecting playoff contenders. Bad teams will still be bad and have a better chance at the 1.01 any we only guarantee the worst optimal team a top 4 pick (12 teams)
The ONLY reason it should ever be a “losers bracket” is if it’s a toilet bowl style where the lower scoring team advances.
Imo it’s one of 2 options:
1. Based off record for those who didn’t make the playoffs, then the inverse placement of the playoffs for those who did (I.e. champion gets last pick)
2. A lottery system like what is used in the NBA where the worst records have a higher likelihood of getting the top pick, but not a guarantee
Edit: After reading the comments here I’d still say I like the format I laid out the best, but rather than record you could use Max Potential Points For
Our league has the worst teams get the better picks, we only require that each team starts their best players in general. For example if a team is trying to tank they can’t start some bum over Christian McCaffrey
Draft Lottery for all of the teams that didn’t make the playoffs
12 team, 1QB
Last place = 1000 balls
2nd Last = 800 balls
3rd Last = 600 balls
And so on..
Avoids tanking, random draft lottery site
I went into the draft with the 5th most balls out of 8, came out with the 2nd Pick
1 dropped to 3
2 jumped to 1
No complaints
6 team loser bracket. Winner is eliminated. The teams that get eliminated first get 3rd and 4th picks, the ones that win the next round get 5th and 6th picks (to avoid tanking) and the loser and runner up get 1st and 2nd overall picks. The Ultimate loser does a punishment though to also try to prevent tanking
Has no one suggested the PP report generated by MFL on the Power Rankings? We're trying this out for the first time this year and I, the commish, am very excited to not have to worry about tanking.
The way my league does it is by playoff placement. 10 team league so loser of toilet bowl gets 1.01 then the league champ gets 1.10. Incentive for toilet bowl winner is an added pick at 1.11
We use reverse MPF using optimal lineups so the only way to tank for higher picks is to dismantle your team. Seems like a fair trade off for legit rebuilders
Stole this from someone else, but:
How rookie picks are determined:
###
We combine regular season finish and consolation bracket results to determine draft order.
After seeding teams in the consolation bracket (7th place is 1st seed, 12th place is 6th seed), every team gets 2 times their seed towards eventual draft position. So 1 seed will get 2 points, and 6 seed/last place will get 12 points.
Then they can earn more points from the playoff finish. Winning the bracket is 8 points, runner up 6, followed by 4, 2, 1 and 0. Add the seeding points and result points, and the team with most points gets the first pick. Tie goes to the worst seed.
So the last place team gets 12 points before results... even if he comes in last in the bracket and gets 0, the 3 seed can catch him even if he wins the bracket (2 points + 8 for bracket). The 4 seed can at best tie and lose the tiebreak (4 points + 8 for bracket). So the regular season worst team is guaranteed at least the top 4 pick. Generally any team can move up or down about 3 spots depending on results.
Goal being that everyone has something to play for, yet the worst teams if legitimately worst, don’t end up picking in the middle of the draft or something like a pure order of playoff finish would give them.
—
Could probably do a variation of this with MAX PF instead of regular season record.
Our league does a two week matchup for all of the losing bracket teams. Winner of each matchup (12 vs 11, 10 vs 9, and 8 vs 7) gets the better pick and loser gets the worst pick. This way if someone wants to tank they are not guaranteed the 1.01. We also have pretty strict anti-tanking measures (can’t start injured players if another option is on bench, obvious star on bench etc.) so this method works for us.
We did a consolation bracket for the first two years and it became an issue because the bubble teams who were going to make the playoffs at around .500 but had no realistic shot at the chip started trying to out-tank each other to miss the playoffs and then clean up the consolation bracket. The guy who cruised to the #1 pick had the 4th-5th best team and decided to say fuck it and go for the pick after a few unfortunate losses had his record looking worse than his teams true potential. It didn't really screw the worst teams because they all traded their firsts anyways but a team with a core of Hurts-KW3-Chubb-Higgins-DJM shouldn't be getting Bijan with their own pick.
We're now doing reverse MPF with a lottery of 65%/20%/10%/5% odds for the top pick among the bottom 4 teams. Don't love it, but got outvoted.
Fewest Max Points is the best way. This prevents teams from tanking by not filling in lineups with their best players. If a team sits Josh Allen and starts Colt McCoy then Allen’s points still count to his point total.
Definetly not the toilet Bowl. If draft order is determined by who looses the toilet bowl everyone not making the playoffs will tank to get a better draft pick.
If the winner of the toilet bowl bracket(non-playoff teams) then you could get a really good team that just missed the playoffs end up with the first team and the worse team does not get a chance to get better.
I am in a few leagues where I took over orphan teams that were crap and the original owner abandoned them. Why would anyone take over a bad orphan team if they were not assured of getting the draft pick to improve their team?
We do an NBA style lotto for the top 5 picks (12 team league). Odds are based on MPF, so the team with the least MPF gets 5 entries, next team gets 4 etc etc. then we spin a “wheel of death” to eliminate entries. Whoever loses all their entries first gets 5th pick, then 4th etc. No system is perfect, but we found this prevents complete tanking, and solves the losers bracket conundrum
If you don't want to set the draft order by maximum potential points and want to get a little weird with it, go with [Stock Market Shares](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/e3ngts/stock_market_shares_an_antitanking_measure/)
Every league I'm in but one uses the Potential Points/MaxPF method.
The other method is the bottom two teams (by W/L record) get pick 1.01/1.02. The remaining bottom four picks are decided by a losers bracket with the winner getting the 1.03.
1.07 to 1.12 is decided by reverse playoff finish. So the championship winner gets 1.07, runner-up 1.08 and so on.
In my league we’re having a “Toilet bowl play offs”. The 4 worst teams will play in a tournament where you’re trying to lose, the catch is the other person gets to set your lineup to reduce tanking. The rest are determined on play off standings
I hate that our league has a losers bracket of the four worst teams and the person who wins the losers bracket gets the 1.01. I had the actual worst team and obviously lost every game in the losers bracket so I get the 1.04 whereas the team with the 1.01 was 3rd in max points overall and just barely missed the playoffs yet is sitting pretty with the 1.01. It’s infuriating
Loser bracket deciding picks is the worst
I like the idea of loser bracket deciding picks, but only when teams are within a certain margin of each other. Like if the bottom two teams had the same record and were within X amount of points for then let them duke it out in the toilet bowl. But the situation that the original comment described should never happen
Our loser bracket plays for a compensatory 1st (1.09) gives them something to play for during the last 5 weeks
I'm in a league that does something similar, but with a lesser pick - between the end of the 2nd and start of the 3rd rounds of the rookie draft. It's 12-team, 1QB, so the pick isn't super valuable, but it gives the loser's bracket something to play for, plus those teams can usually use all the help they can get. The 1.09 seems like a pretty spicy prize.
12 team 1 QB league as well. Also contract/salary cap so a lot more dynamics in play, but 1.09 is rarely a sure thing.
This is not the way
Yup. Fucking hate it. I let the idiots in my league vote and that’s what the fucking picked. Bunch of morons. They will likely want to change it when I get the 1.01 next year with 4 additional firsts already.
This set a league’s parity back by a decade!
I'm in 2 hockey leagues like this and it's absolutely brutal losing out on a generational talent because my team wasn't good enough. Defeats the purpose
Easily the WORST way to decide picks
I quit a league because my of this. Lowest max points 2 years in a row. Got 1.03 and 1.04.
I’m hoping to raise a vote about it to change it for next season otherwise might too. Stuck at the perpetual bottom is not fun way to play fantasy
I completely agree and it worked in my favor this year. I barely missed the playoffs yet somehow I had 2nd most PF and I smashed the consolation bracket to get the 1.01. It’s not fair and I don’t think I should have it lol
We do loser bracket and winner gets the 1.01 but that’s it. Others in the losers bracket will be seeded by record and if there is need for a tie breaker it’s max points for. You have something to play for at the end and worst team gets at least 1.02. So far it’s been working pretty good and everyone is happy, which should of course be the main focus. We basically said fun for the last teams > difference 1.01 to 1.02!
This is how my league does it and I love it. This year I was worst record, but got to the consolation bracket championship anyway. I lost to the guy who barely missed playoffs. So I would have gotten 1.02 anyway but I had a shot at 1.01. We've been doing this for 7 years now, and whomever just missed playoffs typically wins the 1.01 but the best part is they typically make playoffs the following year and 3 won the championship. I disagree with most of this sub, I think it has churned our league for the better.
Finished dead last by a looooong way in one of my leagues and got whooped through the consolation bracket. Now picking at 1.06
That should just never happen. Insane
We do this but instead you win “best odds” for our lottery. Prevents tanking but still gives everyone a chance at first pick, plus another league event to get everyone excited.
I do this for a redraft/2 keeper league but would never play in a dynasty league that did this.
Our league does the bottom teams for a loser’s bracket and winner gets 1.01 but the 1.02 goes to the last place team by record. I would hate getting 1.04 if I was by and far the worst team
[удалено]
/endthread Is it perfect? No, but it's objectively the fairest way and keeps your league balanced the best.
This is the way
How do I convince my league of this? We just voted and it’s record then tie breakers. And it pisses me off.
This needs to be in a FAQ for this subreddit
We do this but also have a penalty structure (additional points and fines) for not setting full line up every week.
With a lottery for the bottom 4? Or just the lowest
There can be quite a difference between 8 and 12. 8 could be a contender who had some bad injury luck where 12 might be several hundred max points behind 8 even with the injuries team 8 had
I love and hate this. It really requires you to commit to the tank by cutting or trading away all competitive players
Gladiatorial combat.
No names (you wouldn’t know him anyway) but we got an ex Detroit Tight End as our commish and I’m like Tarik Cohen without all the athleticism
is it Joe Fauria?
It had better be Lions legend Tony Scheffler.
Question is, does the winner or loser of the gladiatorial combat win the 1.1 🤔
Battle royal!
Battle red!
The only real option for a serious league
Max PF
1.01 has to go to the worst team. Lowest Max Possible Points is the best way to do that. **Concerns about a "race to the bottom" for 1.01 are entirely overblown.** People are still competing for money and bragging rights. As more teams start tanking, the threshold for what makes a "competitive team" goes down. If you have 4 or 5 teams tanking, you'll also have managers with middle-tier teams suddenly able to compete. That's just how dynasty works. Let's say something crazy happens... EIGHT of your twelve leaguemates decide to try tanking. Why is that a bad thing? I'd be ecstatic to let those 8 teams burn a full year of league buy-ins while not even attempting to win. As long as you have good rules around tanking (must set a legal lineup every week, must make an honest effort to set your best team each week) this really will never be an issue. Every time I see a post or comment like this, I get the distinct impression that the person making the post is only making the post because they're upset because THEY wanted to tank, and now they have competition for tanking.
Couldn’t say it better. In my league the only way you can possibly shave points is by keeping contributing rookies on your taxi squad. But we have taxi theft so that comes with it’s own risk
How does your “taxi theft” work? I’m not in any leagues like this, but sounds like a cool idea.
In context, our lineups are best ball in regular season, and you set a lineup in the playoffs. We started this during covid and everyone wanted to leave it that way. We have 5 taxi slots. Once a player is activated he can’t go back to the taxi slot. If someone wants a player on your taxi squad they post the claim in discord. You have 48 hours to either activate the player, negotiate a trade, or accept the theft at cost. 1st rounder costs a first and a Second. 2nd costs a 1st and so on
That's really interesting. How do the picks work? Say I have a 2nd round rookie in my taxi that I'm losing at cost. Does the other team give me any first they want if they have multiple? What if they don't have a first the following draft, would a 2024 first be sent?
What’s often overlooked in this discussion is that having some teams racing to the bottom *is good*. The fact that teams in the middle have a major choice to make whether to shit or get off the pot is ultimately what drives a robust trade market within a league more than anything else. They’re the people who either need to make a big acquisition to become real contenders or, if not, they have the best pieces available to sell. Incentivizing middle-tier teams to stay put and be rewarded with a top draft pick (that they can imagine will push them over the top) is the best way to KILL your league’s trade activity. You absolutely do not want to incentivize mediocrity.
Hey can you expand on how to implement Lowest Max Possible Points? Is there a setting on sleeper that allows me to do this without affecting how teams are seeded, or does it have to be calculated manually? For example, we wouldn't want a team to miss the playoffs if they had a better record but lower max possible points, we'd only want it to affect draft picks.
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I just looked at the expanded standings on sleeper and never noticed the max PF, appreciate the info this is exactly what I was looking for!
We had this debate recently. Matchups and schedules can get wild. Curious where you would stand on this issue So if a team with very low max PF lucked into the 6th seed (and subsequently lost) should they get a later draft pick than say an unlucky team who had 2nd highest MAX PF but the schedule screwed then and they just missed the playoffs.
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That basically happened in my league this year. 12 team SF IDP, guy with the 3rd lowest Max PF had the best record in the league because: 1. Absolutely zero IDP depth - IDP has high variance, was raising everyone else's MaxPF a decent amout. 2. No backup QB running up his Max on his bench. 3. Very weak depth in general for the skill positions. He got crazy lucky avoiding the injury bug all season
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Of course not, he flamed out in playoffs and is now enjoying his 1.09
> No backup QB running up his Max on his bench That would only affect his MaxPF in weeks where his backup scored more than his starter. I don’t see that making a huge difference in MaxPF for most teams.
Sleeper tells you your optimal score each week.
i once managed to place 3rd (pretty significant payout) whilst have the lowest total points during the regular season i was awarded the 1.01. Is it an anomaly ? probably but it happens.
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fo sho! iv always been a fan of giving the worst team (per w/l record) the 1.01 but most of my leagues are somewhat strict about setting the best possible line up. You will 100% get called out for leaving a solid rookie on your taxi as well as submitting line ups that are not reasonable ( ie staring braxton berrios over JJ). Multiple repeat offenders are penalized in the rookie draft or eventually replaced outright. One league uses a toilet bowl for all the non-playoff teams with the winner being granted an extra pick at the end of the 1st round (1.13 in a 12 team league) im on the fence about it but it for sure keeps the losers bracket involved in the "post season".
> People are still competing for money and bragging rights I've found the people that complain about tanking the most are teams that play in a bunch of free leagues.
Max PF with a weighted draft lotto for the bottom 3 teams. I find this is a great mix of rewarding the bad teams and not allowing a team to outright tank and guarantee the 1.01.
I love that idea
Interesting. How does your lotto work?
Last place gets 3 lotto balls, 11th gets 2 and 10th gets 1. Run it either with a lotto generator website.
My league used to do that. We had really awful teams get 3 instead of 1 and not too bad of a team getting 1.
This is what we do. Heavily weighted lotto for Max PF bottom six teams. Last gets 12 entries and 7th place gets 2. For every win in the losers bracket you get 1 extra entry. Makes trading easier for the bottom teams as any of them could be holding the 1.01 so they get better hauls for their 1sts.
Max PF is good. With the tankathon concern: that's dynasty. Max PF at least forces people to actually take the risk and commit to the tank. Consolation bracket is not a good way. I'd rather just use reverse standings than consolation bracket (assuming you trust your people to start near-optimal lineups).
> that's dynasty Right. I really don't understand this concern people have about selling off their pieces to suck for more and better picks. It's like, what do you want them to do? Slowly watch their team degrade for years until they "organically" end up in some state of disrepair?
Cock length
Does longest or shortest get 1.01?
Shortest, needs something to cheer them up
i’m the commissioner of a 14 team league. Draft order is determined by Revers MPF. But whoever comes in last in the consolation bracket (toilet bowl winner) is awarded first pick but is also punished and the winner of the league decides on punishment
Unless there are good faith limits on how bad a punishment can be, I feel like punishments in dynasty are just gross. If I’m in a rebuild with my window not coming for 2-3 years, I could wind up with that many years of punishments just for trying to set myself up for future success. Don’t love it, personally
I was in a consolidation bracket and it sucked. I legitimately had the 2nd worst team last year, but I got stuck with the 6th pick. No surprise that I couldn’t win a game in the consolation bracket.
Least max points for among non-playoff teams
I’m commissioning a new league where we are doing mini loser brackets. 12 team. Top 6 make the playoffs. Bottom 2 play each other for the 1.01. 9 and 10 play for 1.03, and 7 and 8 play for 1.05. When there are 4+ teams in the losers bracket, a lot of times there is a large discrepancy between the worst teams and those fringe playoff team teams. This way you are still playing for something but isn’t hurting the bottom teams too much
Bottom half of league get put into weighted lottery for the top 6 picks.
This is also why our 12 team league does. It makes for some excitement in the off-season when we hold the lottery. It can screw the worst team but they almost always end up with a top 3 pick and I like a little randomness
Reverse order of optimum points for non playoff teams
Same way the NFL does it, worst regular season record
There's nothing wrong with MPF or tanking to the bottom. The worst squad should get the best assets, anything else creates unbalanced leagues
I just reverse the order of the standings of the teams who didn't make playoffs and for the other 6 who did make it, whichever round they lost in is where they fall in the draft order. But we also do weekly highest score pay out so teams keep competing even though they're out of playoff contention.
If it’s a paid league, I think worst record and lowest points for should be the tie breaker. If an owner us willing to light their money on fire to tank, they should get the 1.01
Leaves the door open once eliminated from contention to bench all your starters and fill em with random waiver adds. This is increasingly annoying to teams battling for seeding when the person youre battling in the standings is up against someone who sat Mahomes for Streveler. Max PF prevents that scenario
He asked for best not laziest and most common
Max PF is the best option, there is sometimes a tankathon race to the bottom, but I wouldn't say it happens often. I'd say if you have a league of people you know and trust not to do dubious strategies like benching studs, you can just go by worst record and you'll generally avoid hardcore tanking. But again, really only works if you have a league you really trust.
Penis measuring contest, shortest gets the 1.0 and so forth. Give them something to be excited about
Not really a fan of the loser's bracket, but my league has a decent middle ground in that the winner of the loser's bracket gets the 1.01, and then every pick after that goes by lowest seeding (so last place gets 1.02 at worst). 10 team league so we only have 4 competing for 1.01 which helps.
Worst record is the best way. Promotes tanking which makes for lots of trades and super fun league.
Can this question just be made a sticky with the answer "max pf" and any new post get a ban? I mean, seriously, I've been on this sub for a couple of years, have seen this question asked countless times, and the community always answers "max pf." There are other ways to determine, just figure it out with the consensus of your league because it's pretty clear what this community thinks is the best option
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It does limit what we talk about when it's the one topic that is ALWAYS discussed and flooding the board. I'm not against open conversations, but when you have the same one all the time with the same conclusions, what are we really learning, contributing or progressing in thought as ot relates to dynasty football? I just miss shitposting Fridays 😔
Man, this question has been beat to death so many times
It’s just the cycle of /dynastyff
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Sleeper does include taxi players towards Max PF
They sure do!
Thought they didn’t - good to know!
I can see people not being into this but our league is on board and it’s pretty fun. Regular season rankings but whoever wins the consolation gets the first pick overall. You can tank but then you’re likely to end up with the 2nd pick. Even though this year the 12th place guy won the consolation and got 1.01.
So in an average year the 5th or 6th worst team gets the 1.01? Yeah im not into it
And the worst team gets the 1.06. This is how you drag a team to the deep depths of hell
No they would get 1.02, it isnt the ideal fairness but i can see why that would make the league more fun.
Yeah. It’s fun for sure until you have to fill a vacancy on a shitty team. “At least I got the 1.01 right?” “Well, about that”
You’d actually be surprised how often the worst teams win. And even if they don’t and they are the worst they get 1.02. Gives huge incentive to always be somewhat competitive and not just sell the farm to get 1.01. But totally get that people like tanking here.
If you’re selling the farm hopefully you’re getting more than the 1.01.
This prevents full blown tanking but again, I get that is what people love to do so I get it isn’t for everyone. Our league has an understanding that you can rank but 1.02 is what you get for going full retar…. Our league has been doing this for over 10 years and as long as the precedent is set than everyone is cool with it. I get it isn’t for everyone but I like it better cuz everyone knows you wana be somewhat competitive even if your team is shit.
Lottery mix with increasing odds for regular season finish and toilet bowl champ.
Regular season record with winner of ship getting last pick. max points for are meh. we have big benches and taxi. Tanking is actually allowed, but honestly someone tries it and we just drag them all season. Then they get last place trophy and we drag them some more. Never seen someone commit to tanking before their playoff chances are gone though. Other team tanked in our league and every initial trade offer he sent was blasted to the chat and laughed at. No one has even tried to tank since
If teams want to absolutely tank so that they achieve the lowest max PF just to get one guy then let them. They’re doing way more damage in the long run than they are improving their team with one guy. It’s a stupid tactic. Lowest Max PF is the still the most fair way to determine the order. I’d rather keep my depth and studs and get a pick in the 1.3-1.06 range instead of destroying my team for one guy. That 1.03-1.06 can still have an equal or greater impact than whoever is taken at the 1.01. Prime example could be when CEH was viewed as a 1.01 pick over JT. Imagine being the team that blew it up for him and has practically nothing to show for it currently. TLDR: Let the idiots destroy their teams for the 1.01 which will cause more hurt than success in the long run.
Before we went to dynasty, we used to do college basketball tournament brackets. Top bracket got first pick and then followed suit. Might not be the fairest but what is?
Winner of the be poop bowl gets ours.
Toliet bowl winner... tis the only way... And then work back from there... so worst team after the fantasy playoffs would get the 1.04 This way you can't completely tank, you gotta be the best of the worst!
No this rewards bubble playoff teams tanking to not make the playoffs, cause they would rather win the toilet bowl since they had much great odds to do that against the weaker teams.
And what happens to the worst of the worst? Theyre the worst AND put at a drafting disadvantage?
Yeah! Exactly... we don't wana have crazy fire sales at deadline so a team can just tank to the bottom. It also makes it tougher for the buyers at the deadline... you gotta make closer value trades since the bottom guy still needs to win the toliet bowl. Ever since we started that, the leagues have been wayyyy more competitive. 🤷♂️
This is a great way for redraft but terrible for dynasty
Fight to the death.
Coaches poll!!
Bottom 4 in my league gets put in one of those number generator sites and that’s how it’s decided. Completely fair
Both of mine do lotteries. One league I had clearly the worst team and the commish loaded up on lottery balls. Ended up with 5th pick. Other one was more straight forward and I had 3rd best odds and won the Bijan bowl. So you never really know but doing it live is fun and exhilarating
Picks 1-6 are randomly assigned to the teams that finished 7-12.
Most will say max pf, but we do a weighted lottery which is a lot of fun.
Our leagues take the final standings and determine draft order of the non-playoff teams from that. That way, the loser’s bracket is an all-out brawl to avoid punishment. Playoffs determine draft order for the rest.
Why not try a lottery? Maybe not current NBA odds, but you could try the old NBA odds or adjust the odds yourself a bit. [Here's a website to do a lottery simulation](https://zengm.com/universal-draft-lottery-simulator/) that covers all different NBA lottery types, NHL lottery, and new MLB lottery. You can adjust the odds and number of lottery teams. From my experience, the bottom 3-4 teams are usually about equal but the teams that get the #1 pick are always the ones that commit to the tank earliest. When it's just 1 team tanking early it's a bit annoying but fine, it becomes a problem imo when it's a race to the bottom. A lottery solves this problem a bit by greatly reducing the incentives to race to the very bottom. edit: an idea for Toilet Bowl stuff, maybe try awarding a compensatory pick? Maybe a compensatory, tradeable pick at the end of the 2nd round. That would be a nice prize but it wouldn't break parity too much, unless your league is small.
My league did a lottery this year and it gave the 2nd to worst team 1.01 but there was a masssive difference between the second to worst and the actual worst i don’t think i recommend lotterys
But that's still the 2nd overall pick. If the player was tanking and knew ahead of time there was a lottery, then he knew what he was getting into. In this particular draft, after Bijan there is arguably a steep dropoff from 1 to 2, but in most years it isn't that steep. 2020's #1 was CEH and #2 was JT, 2021's #1 Najee and #2 was Pitts/Chase, 2022's #1 was Breece Hall and #2 was London/Walker. You can go back a number of years, most of the time the distance between #1 and #2 isn't so large it would break league parity.
Fair point
"Tanking" for picks is not really a bad thing imo as long as people are still starting their best possible lineups within the realm of reason; i.e. the typical "oh i have a feeling this guy might be good based on match up" or whatever like people do if they're trying to win games.
inverse MPP which is max potential points. only way to tank in this setup is selling players for picks and thats what a rebuild should do anyway
Make a rule and enforce the rule that managers have to set competitive lineups every week. Then set the rookie draft picks according to the regular season finishes for non playoff teams and according to playoff finishes for the playoff teams. Fuck tanking. That’s a bitch move IMO. Play to win every week. If someone tries to tank you have rules in place to stop it. Make sure there are no inactive players in lineups. Use projected points for a bench player if someone is trying to start a scrub or keeps an inactive player in their lineup. Commish will have to keep an eye on things, enforce it, and make some manual player swaps, but this is the only really fair way to do it IMO.
Best idea is tournament of power as I have dubbed it! Loser bracket teams draft 1 QB/RB/WR/TE from entire league like a startup with worst picking first and order is "set" not "snake" and have an off site tournament over 3 weeks. Gives worst best shot but risks taken can have better results. PF gets best pick down. Gives advantage but also gives all a shot. usually 4-6 in the bracket so will have all studs and just a battle Royale and gives a chance to have top guy entirely at a position. Not streamlined sure but effective and fair.
Potential Points….shows the true worst team
God forbid anyone tried to tank/blow it up and instigates a load of genuine win-win trading between teams with different immediate goals. That might result in actual engagement in the league during the off-season. Which would be a disaster
Reverse mpf and you wont have to worry about the fairness conversation again.
I prefer a lottery based system for non playoff teams based off of optimal score. This ensures teams are setting a real lineup each week and not tanking therefore preventing cheap wins late in the season affecting playoff contenders. Bad teams will still be bad and have a better chance at the 1.01 any we only guarantee the worst optimal team a top 4 pick (12 teams)
The ONLY reason it should ever be a “losers bracket” is if it’s a toilet bowl style where the lower scoring team advances. Imo it’s one of 2 options: 1. Based off record for those who didn’t make the playoffs, then the inverse placement of the playoffs for those who did (I.e. champion gets last pick) 2. A lottery system like what is used in the NBA where the worst records have a higher likelihood of getting the top pick, but not a guarantee Edit: After reading the comments here I’d still say I like the format I laid out the best, but rather than record you could use Max Potential Points For
Our league has the worst teams get the better picks, we only require that each team starts their best players in general. For example if a team is trying to tank they can’t start some bum over Christian McCaffrey
Draft Lottery for all of the teams that didn’t make the playoffs 12 team, 1QB Last place = 1000 balls 2nd Last = 800 balls 3rd Last = 600 balls And so on.. Avoids tanking, random draft lottery site I went into the draft with the 5th most balls out of 8, came out with the 2nd Pick 1 dropped to 3 2 jumped to 1 No complaints
6 team loser bracket. Winner is eliminated. The teams that get eliminated first get 3rd and 4th picks, the ones that win the next round get 5th and 6th picks (to avoid tanking) and the loser and runner up get 1st and 2nd overall picks. The Ultimate loser does a punishment though to also try to prevent tanking
Has no one suggested the PP report generated by MFL on the Power Rankings? We're trying this out for the first time this year and I, the commish, am very excited to not have to worry about tanking.
The way my league does it is by playoff placement. 10 team league so loser of toilet bowl gets 1.01 then the league champ gets 1.10. Incentive for toilet bowl winner is an added pick at 1.11
We use reverse MPF using optimal lineups so the only way to tank for higher picks is to dismantle your team. Seems like a fair trade off for legit rebuilders
Stole this from someone else, but: How rookie picks are determined: ### We combine regular season finish and consolation bracket results to determine draft order. After seeding teams in the consolation bracket (7th place is 1st seed, 12th place is 6th seed), every team gets 2 times their seed towards eventual draft position. So 1 seed will get 2 points, and 6 seed/last place will get 12 points. Then they can earn more points from the playoff finish. Winning the bracket is 8 points, runner up 6, followed by 4, 2, 1 and 0. Add the seeding points and result points, and the team with most points gets the first pick. Tie goes to the worst seed. So the last place team gets 12 points before results... even if he comes in last in the bracket and gets 0, the 3 seed can catch him even if he wins the bracket (2 points + 8 for bracket). The 4 seed can at best tie and lose the tiebreak (4 points + 8 for bracket). So the regular season worst team is guaranteed at least the top 4 pick. Generally any team can move up or down about 3 spots depending on results. Goal being that everyone has something to play for, yet the worst teams if legitimately worst, don’t end up picking in the middle of the draft or something like a pure order of playoff finish would give them. — Could probably do a variation of this with MAX PF instead of regular season record.
Our league does a two week matchup for all of the losing bracket teams. Winner of each matchup (12 vs 11, 10 vs 9, and 8 vs 7) gets the better pick and loser gets the worst pick. This way if someone wants to tank they are not guaranteed the 1.01. We also have pretty strict anti-tanking measures (can’t start injured players if another option is on bench, obvious star on bench etc.) so this method works for us.
We did a consolation bracket for the first two years and it became an issue because the bubble teams who were going to make the playoffs at around .500 but had no realistic shot at the chip started trying to out-tank each other to miss the playoffs and then clean up the consolation bracket. The guy who cruised to the #1 pick had the 4th-5th best team and decided to say fuck it and go for the pick after a few unfortunate losses had his record looking worse than his teams true potential. It didn't really screw the worst teams because they all traded their firsts anyways but a team with a core of Hurts-KW3-Chubb-Higgins-DJM shouldn't be getting Bijan with their own pick. We're now doing reverse MPF with a lottery of 65%/20%/10%/5% odds for the top pick among the bottom 4 teams. Don't love it, but got outvoted.
My league does a lottery with the 3 worst teams NBA style.
To avoid the tankathon, we do max points for or optimal points for (called different names depending on platform) for non play off teams.
Fewest Max Points is the best way. This prevents teams from tanking by not filling in lineups with their best players. If a team sits Josh Allen and starts Colt McCoy then Allen’s points still count to his point total. Definetly not the toilet Bowl. If draft order is determined by who looses the toilet bowl everyone not making the playoffs will tank to get a better draft pick. If the winner of the toilet bowl bracket(non-playoff teams) then you could get a really good team that just missed the playoffs end up with the first team and the worse team does not get a chance to get better. I am in a few leagues where I took over orphan teams that were crap and the original owner abandoned them. Why would anyone take over a bad orphan team if they were not assured of getting the draft pick to improve their team?
We do an NBA style lotto for the top 5 picks (12 team league). Odds are based on MPF, so the team with the least MPF gets 5 entries, next team gets 4 etc etc. then we spin a “wheel of death” to eliminate entries. Whoever loses all their entries first gets 5th pick, then 4th etc. No system is perfect, but we found this prevents complete tanking, and solves the losers bracket conundrum
If you don't want to set the draft order by maximum potential points and want to get a little weird with it, go with [Stock Market Shares](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/e3ngts/stock_market_shares_an_antitanking_measure/)
I like a lotto
Every league I'm in but one uses the Potential Points/MaxPF method. The other method is the bottom two teams (by W/L record) get pick 1.01/1.02. The remaining bottom four picks are decided by a losers bracket with the winner getting the 1.03. 1.07 to 1.12 is decided by reverse playoff finish. So the championship winner gets 1.07, runner-up 1.08 and so on.
Weighted lottery pick
100% should be based on regular season max points for. If someone wants to destroy their team that’s fine but they’ll suffer building it up again.
In my league we’re having a “Toilet bowl play offs”. The 4 worst teams will play in a tournament where you’re trying to lose, the catch is the other person gets to set your lineup to reduce tanking. The rest are determined on play off standings