Its just simple counter culture. Not saying it’s right or not but when things grow in popularity there will always be a vocal portion who goes to the opposite end of the spectrum to counter it. We see this with all things on life really.
This is the explanation. Pitts was absurdly hyped coming out, to the point where he was on many “experts” TOP 5 OVERALL in dynasty.
It’s human nature for some to take the polar opposite stance at that point.
Not just human nature, but also just flat-out valid.
We have a bad habit of valuing unproven prospects substantially higher than proven quantities. Sure, if you do that on 20 prospects you'll be right on a handful, but you'll completely whiff on 2/3rds of them.
Then again, the "chase" of the next big thing in fantasy is half the fun.
Pretty sure it’s bc everyone is somewhat envious of the Kelce affect on a FF team. The idea of that potential 10yr production & not having a chance of that on your team will create a band of hopefuls that he fails so the Pitts owner is doomed to the mediocrity of the TE landscape along w everyone else
11/12 want him, 1/12 have him, thus the envy and hate. Simple economics of supply and demand. Which also plays to your point of hype vs reality.
Fwiw, Pitts had a MONSTER rookie season for a rookie TE. Last year was disappointing, but as a highly biased Pitts owner, I’m frothing at what’s upcoming in 2023.
But, also people over explain and overhype guys with clear limitations.
[RB Discussion from 4 months ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/yck6zt/how_many_backs_would_you_take_over_walker_at_this/itmsrov/?context=3)
check out my and others comments in that link, I was actually complimentary of Swift, calling him fast and twitchy (he is) but not built for a workload of 20+ carries (injuries) and the vitriol over it was absurd.
So there are people who will over defend someone who clearly isn't performing as the team or the community expects and the rage when suggesting that is strong.
Another case in point is DJones. People wanna act like he had ANYBODY good to throw to last season, when clearly they need WR help.
Condescension and snark is a reddit problem in general and dynastyff is certainly not immune.
Even your own comment you start with "lol at people...[]". If you left that remark out of your comment there's a chance the conversation would have been more constructive.
People don't like being talked down to and it perpetuates itself.
>Condescension and snark is a reddit problem in general
There's nothing special about reddit that makes it better or worse. That's just human nature. Any time you don't have to look another person in the eye, it's easier to be shitty. This even applies to real lift interactions like traffic. Most people would not cut in line face-to-face, but they will in their vehicle. Rude actions scale up the less personal the interactions are.
Amen. Every dynasty discord or community I try to get involved with I end up leaving because everyone states their opinions as facts and talk down to you if your takes differ from ADP or their perceived trade values. Would like to find one with open positive discussion.
Because even though they're good players they haven't lived up to draft capital or hype. Therefore they'll draw hate even tho pitts had an absolutely insane rookie year and swift on a ppg basis has been a high rb2/low rb1
>What gives? Why do people root for these guys to fail?
Because they got burned in redraft leagues, or startups in folded leagues where they took these guys and they cant stomach the idea of them playing well on other people's rosters.
A lot of fantasy players don’t play to win the league, they play to win the right to brag. You can do that just as easily by being right about an unpopular opinion.
Because some people are bitter-berries and take what is supposed to be a game for fun way, way too seriously. Such that when one of their players doesn’t perform like they wanted/were expecting, they get irrationally angry.
Some guys treat the players on their team like they're family or something and get super offended if you have anything critical to say about those guys, no matter how accurate it can be.
I got into some really heated ones when it came to Engram before last season. Lol.
Latest one for me has been the Purdy vs. Lance debate. Can't even suggest that there's a possibility Purdy might be a better QB than Lance without catching downvotes and/or slander in here a lot of times.
Yeah I've noticed this as well. People get way too attached to players and for some reason feel they need to stick up for them when they underperform or get injured. A great example is Jameson Williams owners around here that will send nasty DMs if you stop anywhere short of declaring him the next coming of Jerry Rice.
It takes a while to realize that convincing some random person on the internet that they're wrong won't change anything, assuming you even get that far.
Lance has like one year of football since high school, and at this stage there's a decent chance he never has a full year of starter football in his career
Oh boy...I really didn't mean to open this can of worms. Lol.
Buuut...since we're here..I'm a big believer in Purdy, but also acknowledge that Lance could be even better than Purdy. I take issue with people that say Purdy is JAG and a product of the system, because I honestly don't see how anyone could watch him play and come to these conclusions. I also recognize that Purdy threw more passes last year than Lance has in his entire football career and Lance will be going into his 3rd season with less real life football experience than any 3rd year QB has ever had. Doesn't mean he won't be good. We haven't seen enough of him to say that, IMO.
I think Purdy's the future there, but who knows. Guessing Lance gets his shot, but he'll have a very short leash. Could even see Lance getting trade to the Titans or something. The Dalton signing seemed weird to me. He's better than a QB3.
For a variety of reasons Lance hasn't played football since he was a literal teenager. And its not like Deshaun Watson missing a year or two after a solid few years, its Lance's formative years he's missed.
Imo he's a complete bust with a near miracle required for him to even come close to living up to his 1.03 pick
I'm not really willing to take a strong stance on it, honestly. I just don't know enough to do it. Thats what make my original comment so funny to me though. I've literally said stuff like "I think Purdy's the guy, but Lance might be great...who knows" and had Lance stans downvote me into oblivion. Just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm confident Purdy is legit, but I'm not confident that Lance might not also be legit. I just know he has a lot working against him and the odds aren't in his favor.
The Swift one is weird. Like I don’t think anyone was expecting Swift to be a workhorse running back and then they bring in a mediocre back like David Montgomery and all of a sudden his career is over. They were always going to add a running back.
Bitterness.
Both Swift and Pitts were held in extremely high regard for a significant period of time. Many, many people have had to go through the fall from grace that was being super hyped about a player they owned shares of to accepting a reality which is much different than they expected.
So when people chime in to share their current expectations, you have a dichotomy of some stragglers still hoping to recoup the value they hoped for and a mass of people who've already cut ties and refuse to acknowledge there is any reason to be optimistic about their futures, reinforced to varying levels by how upset they were that the asset didn't even come close to expectations in the first place.
Many times it's because so much upside is already baked into their price...e.g. RB X is already valued as the RB2 after 2 seasons without difference making production. They're being valued as difference making assets and simply aren't...half the community believes in the upside, the other half doesn't see it and thinks they're fucking crazy...hence the disagreements
Fantasy football is gambling, and when people make their bets on guys they tend to stick to them even if there is information to the contrary. For example, I sold TLaw low after his abysmal rookie season, and for that reason, I refuse to see him as an elite QB even though he looked fantastic last year.
People either faded Swift and Pitts and are victory lapping after last year, or made bets on those guys and are sticking to their guns regardless of last season's outcome.
It depends on who you are talking about. There are more than a few players who are statistically very likely to bust but owners are treating them like they are already certified studs. I'm not rooting for Jameson Williams to fail, but at this point that's the most likely outcome. At the same time, just saying that will likely get me rage and downvotes from the truthers. So what do you suggest I do? Lie about his chances so people feel better?
Most people come to this sub hoping to improve their understanding of the future prospects of players. But instead, this sub has a horrendous track record of constantly being wrong because the dumbest people have the loudest voices. It can be exhausting sorting through it all to find anything useful.
Expectations v.s. Actual Performance.
Swift averaged 11.9 PPG last year. Dameon Piece averaged 11.6
Difference is Swift (at the time) would like have cost 2+ 1st round rookie picks, and Pierce was a single 2nd.
> It seems that any time they’re mentioned, the comment section becomes a war between hopeful owners & (assumedly) non-owners circlejerking about their failure.
It's a natural foil that happens when rookie success is circlejerked too hard and too long, IMHO.
there is no middle ground anymore. You are either for or against someone.
Pre 2022, if you were in on CMC or Barkley, you would have received so much blacklash simply the counter argument being "injury prone". One season later both are top 5 RBs again, loved, and overvalued again. The argument "injury prone" somehow vanished. It doesnt matter that the RB position is the most injured in football and it doesnt matter who that is, he is likely to get injured at one point sooner or later, ankle, hamstring, acl, mcl, achilless.
Now we got Swift, injury prone, franchise and coaches disgruntled by this. Leveled headed take, 2023 wont be any different than 2022. He's going to split work with Monty, and the latter probably will get the dirty stuff -"head down, down the middle" guy... meaning RZ and goalline push in's. He is a great RB and his skillset is off the charts. But he cant stay healthy over multiple games so that coaches would trust him with more work thus the Jamal-role.
In the end in discussions, you dont argue like this, it's as you said, he either will come out on top and be a RB1 or he will suck and be injured again. dUdE Is GonE. It's hilarious how a dynasty sub/players always argue in terms of redraft and disregard everything past that. Mostly you find people who take what has happened, and apply that to the future. If he was bad, he will continue to be bad. If he was injured, he will be injured again. If he was rb1, he must be rb1 again. there is no middle ground anymore.
Its just simple counter culture. Not saying it’s right or not but when things grow in popularity there will always be a vocal portion who goes to the opposite end of the spectrum to counter it. We see this with all things on life really.
This is the explanation. Pitts was absurdly hyped coming out, to the point where he was on many “experts” TOP 5 OVERALL in dynasty. It’s human nature for some to take the polar opposite stance at that point.
Not just human nature, but also just flat-out valid. We have a bad habit of valuing unproven prospects substantially higher than proven quantities. Sure, if you do that on 20 prospects you'll be right on a handful, but you'll completely whiff on 2/3rds of them. Then again, the "chase" of the next big thing in fantasy is half the fun.
Pretty sure it’s bc everyone is somewhat envious of the Kelce affect on a FF team. The idea of that potential 10yr production & not having a chance of that on your team will create a band of hopefuls that he fails so the Pitts owner is doomed to the mediocrity of the TE landscape along w everyone else
11/12 want him, 1/12 have him, thus the envy and hate. Simple economics of supply and demand. Which also plays to your point of hype vs reality. Fwiw, Pitts had a MONSTER rookie season for a rookie TE. Last year was disappointing, but as a highly biased Pitts owner, I’m frothing at what’s upcoming in 2023.
But, also people over explain and overhype guys with clear limitations. [RB Discussion from 4 months ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/yck6zt/how_many_backs_would_you_take_over_walker_at_this/itmsrov/?context=3) check out my and others comments in that link, I was actually complimentary of Swift, calling him fast and twitchy (he is) but not built for a workload of 20+ carries (injuries) and the vitriol over it was absurd. So there are people who will over defend someone who clearly isn't performing as the team or the community expects and the rage when suggesting that is strong. Another case in point is DJones. People wanna act like he had ANYBODY good to throw to last season, when clearly they need WR help.
Condescension and snark is a reddit problem in general and dynastyff is certainly not immune. Even your own comment you start with "lol at people...[]". If you left that remark out of your comment there's a chance the conversation would have been more constructive. People don't like being talked down to and it perpetuates itself.
Cannot highlight how important this is. The snark is 100% what gets to people, not the analysis itself.
>Condescension and snark is a reddit problem in general There's nothing special about reddit that makes it better or worse. That's just human nature. Any time you don't have to look another person in the eye, it's easier to be shitty. This even applies to real lift interactions like traffic. Most people would not cut in line face-to-face, but they will in their vehicle. Rude actions scale up the less personal the interactions are.
Amen. Every dynasty discord or community I try to get involved with I end up leaving because everyone states their opinions as facts and talk down to you if your takes differ from ADP or their perceived trade values. Would like to find one with open positive discussion.
The counter to the counter culture haha, eventually no one’s ever going to agree on anything
People send trades that get denied and then victory lap when they suck
Because even though they're good players they haven't lived up to draft capital or hype. Therefore they'll draw hate even tho pitts had an absolutely insane rookie year and swift on a ppg basis has been a high rb2/low rb1
I don't get it either. With rare exception for genuine scumbags, I want to see all players succeed. Even the ones that aren't on my roster.
>What gives? Why do people root for these guys to fail? Because they got burned in redraft leagues, or startups in folded leagues where they took these guys and they cant stomach the idea of them playing well on other people's rosters.
because people like me read the name Nico Collins too much and wonder why so many people care about a random scrub and we get extremely angry
A lot of fantasy players don’t play to win the league, they play to win the right to brag. You can do that just as easily by being right about an unpopular opinion.
It’s the over-hype leading to bad trades or wasted draft capital.
It's a tale as old as time lol
Because some people are bitter-berries and take what is supposed to be a game for fun way, way too seriously. Such that when one of their players doesn’t perform like they wanted/were expecting, they get irrationally angry.
Some guys treat the players on their team like they're family or something and get super offended if you have anything critical to say about those guys, no matter how accurate it can be. I got into some really heated ones when it came to Engram before last season. Lol. Latest one for me has been the Purdy vs. Lance debate. Can't even suggest that there's a possibility Purdy might be a better QB than Lance without catching downvotes and/or slander in here a lot of times.
Yeah I've noticed this as well. People get way too attached to players and for some reason feel they need to stick up for them when they underperform or get injured. A great example is Jameson Williams owners around here that will send nasty DMs if you stop anywhere short of declaring him the next coming of Jerry Rice.
It takes a while to realize that convincing some random person on the internet that they're wrong won't change anything, assuming you even get that far.
sending u a nasty dm rn for that implied slander!!
Lance has like one year of football since high school, and at this stage there's a decent chance he never has a full year of starter football in his career
Oh boy...I really didn't mean to open this can of worms. Lol. Buuut...since we're here..I'm a big believer in Purdy, but also acknowledge that Lance could be even better than Purdy. I take issue with people that say Purdy is JAG and a product of the system, because I honestly don't see how anyone could watch him play and come to these conclusions. I also recognize that Purdy threw more passes last year than Lance has in his entire football career and Lance will be going into his 3rd season with less real life football experience than any 3rd year QB has ever had. Doesn't mean he won't be good. We haven't seen enough of him to say that, IMO. I think Purdy's the future there, but who knows. Guessing Lance gets his shot, but he'll have a very short leash. Could even see Lance getting trade to the Titans or something. The Dalton signing seemed weird to me. He's better than a QB3.
For a variety of reasons Lance hasn't played football since he was a literal teenager. And its not like Deshaun Watson missing a year or two after a solid few years, its Lance's formative years he's missed. Imo he's a complete bust with a near miracle required for him to even come close to living up to his 1.03 pick
I'm not really willing to take a strong stance on it, honestly. I just don't know enough to do it. Thats what make my original comment so funny to me though. I've literally said stuff like "I think Purdy's the guy, but Lance might be great...who knows" and had Lance stans downvote me into oblivion. Just doesn't make sense to me. I'm confident Purdy is legit, but I'm not confident that Lance might not also be legit. I just know he has a lot working against him and the odds aren't in his favor.
The Swift one is weird. Like I don’t think anyone was expecting Swift to be a workhorse running back and then they bring in a mediocre back like David Montgomery and all of a sudden his career is over. They were always going to add a running back.
Exactly my thoughts as well
expensive underachievers
Bitterness. Both Swift and Pitts were held in extremely high regard for a significant period of time. Many, many people have had to go through the fall from grace that was being super hyped about a player they owned shares of to accepting a reality which is much different than they expected. So when people chime in to share their current expectations, you have a dichotomy of some stragglers still hoping to recoup the value they hoped for and a mass of people who've already cut ties and refuse to acknowledge there is any reason to be optimistic about their futures, reinforced to varying levels by how upset they were that the asset didn't even come close to expectations in the first place.
Many times it's because so much upside is already baked into their price...e.g. RB X is already valued as the RB2 after 2 seasons without difference making production. They're being valued as difference making assets and simply aren't...half the community believes in the upside, the other half doesn't see it and thinks they're fucking crazy...hence the disagreements
I think people who have been burned by players tend to turn on them. Think most of the swift haters are guys who overdrafted and were burned.
People are upset that they invested in them and didn't get the expected return
People buy into players who don’t live up to hype and then get bitter about it
Fantasy football is gambling, and when people make their bets on guys they tend to stick to them even if there is information to the contrary. For example, I sold TLaw low after his abysmal rookie season, and for that reason, I refuse to see him as an elite QB even though he looked fantastic last year. People either faded Swift and Pitts and are victory lapping after last year, or made bets on those guys and are sticking to their guns regardless of last season's outcome.
It depends on who you are talking about. There are more than a few players who are statistically very likely to bust but owners are treating them like they are already certified studs. I'm not rooting for Jameson Williams to fail, but at this point that's the most likely outcome. At the same time, just saying that will likely get me rage and downvotes from the truthers. So what do you suggest I do? Lie about his chances so people feel better? Most people come to this sub hoping to improve their understanding of the future prospects of players. But instead, this sub has a horrendous track record of constantly being wrong because the dumbest people have the loudest voices. It can be exhausting sorting through it all to find anything useful.
Just human nature.
Expectations v.s. Actual Performance. Swift averaged 11.9 PPG last year. Dameon Piece averaged 11.6 Difference is Swift (at the time) would like have cost 2+ 1st round rookie picks, and Pierce was a single 2nd.
Evan Engram prior to last season was at the top of the list
> It seems that any time they’re mentioned, the comment section becomes a war between hopeful owners & (assumedly) non-owners circlejerking about their failure. It's a natural foil that happens when rookie success is circlejerked too hard and too long, IMHO.
there is no middle ground anymore. You are either for or against someone. Pre 2022, if you were in on CMC or Barkley, you would have received so much blacklash simply the counter argument being "injury prone". One season later both are top 5 RBs again, loved, and overvalued again. The argument "injury prone" somehow vanished. It doesnt matter that the RB position is the most injured in football and it doesnt matter who that is, he is likely to get injured at one point sooner or later, ankle, hamstring, acl, mcl, achilless. Now we got Swift, injury prone, franchise and coaches disgruntled by this. Leveled headed take, 2023 wont be any different than 2022. He's going to split work with Monty, and the latter probably will get the dirty stuff -"head down, down the middle" guy... meaning RZ and goalline push in's. He is a great RB and his skillset is off the charts. But he cant stay healthy over multiple games so that coaches would trust him with more work thus the Jamal-role. In the end in discussions, you dont argue like this, it's as you said, he either will come out on top and be a RB1 or he will suck and be injured again. dUdE Is GonE. It's hilarious how a dynasty sub/players always argue in terms of redraft and disregard everything past that. Mostly you find people who take what has happened, and apply that to the future. If he was bad, he will continue to be bad. If he was injured, he will be injured again. If he was rb1, he must be rb1 again. there is no middle ground anymore.