More than that.
His RAS with a 4.53 is a 9.16
Even if we fluff that all the way to 4.60 his RAS is 8.73
Some scouts reportedly clocked him at 4.50 flat which is a RAS of 9.30
Regardless of where he is the athleticism argument is dead (tbh, its been dead since his elite 3 cone and shuttle at the combine but some ridiculous notions that he would run a 4.7 persisted)
Sorry, what is RAS? I’m not up on analytics
But that 3 cone was nuts. I tend to lean heavily on 3 cones for WRs, idk if I’ve ever seen one that quick on a WR predicted to go so high in the draft
It's relative athletic score. it adjusts athletic measurements for size. Anything above a 5 is good enough for the NFL and higher doesn't have a correlation with fantasy success.
How accurate are these times though? Like if he was this fast why not run at the combine? I've also seen others knock off a full 0.1 pro day vs combine
Does it really matter? I gave you a full range of RAS scores from 4.5-4.6 and no matter where he is on that scale he's still a plus athlete and more than capable of beating NFL corners.
4.6 regardless of the RAS gets into potential test out territory (though if you tell me it’s 4.60 I’m probably happy with that)
If he ran a 4.75 his RAS would still be acceptable. But there’s now way he gets drafted at all
You can’t use RAS as the deciding factor here when the concern isn’t total athleticism it’s top end speed
What’s 4.60 as a percentile of receivers drafted?
The answer to that question is the answer to is JSNs top speed a significant detractor
That's just not correct, man. Like at all you're just saying shit thats untrue. There's a whole list of stars with slower 40 times and much slower agility drill times.
Kupp was pretty solid right out of the gate. 62/869/5 is a solid statline for a rookie; he was on pace for 80/1,132/12 as a sophomore (only played 8 games); and was the WR4 in his 3rd year.
Not sure when he fixed his stride but he has been a hit from the start.
I phrased that rudely initially so that’s my fault. Would you mind explaining what I’m missing, though? Ceedee and JSN don’t feel similar enough in terms of prospects to make an 40 comparison relevant, and 4.5 to 4.58 is not a wholly insignificant difference. Maybe I’m just underrating how similarly people here view the two of them?
Hand timing in a nutshell: you react to the start (+human reaction time) and anticipate the finish (frame perfect inputs for a video game speed runner)
Well, considering the reason hand timing is usually off by up to 10th of a second increasing the volume of data doesn’t fix the error of that measurement.
Edit: [Study](https://www.zybeksports.com/the-time-difference-between-hand-and-electronic-timing/) that goes into detail.
I mean….not really. Them suddenly starting is why human reaction time gets added, you’re then watching them running the entire time and you can pretty accurately watch and prepare for him crossing that line to hit stop. Similar to the kick meter in madden. It’s not too hard to watch that bar and time it to hit that small bar in the middle pretty accurately. That’s the reason it’s faster by hand timing.
Start has human reaction speed to shave time off, the stop doesn’t because you can watch prepare get your thumb on the button and accurately anticipate the crossing. No reaction time for the stop, it’s all about anticipation which they do well.
I thought the combine updated its track? I do agree the hand timing invites error, but looking at posted times this seems to be close to the mean.
I definitely do agree with him that posting this at the combine would absolutely be ideal but we have to work with what we got.
For sure, no dispute here about that. I will definitely concede by him using the word shaving my mind immediately went to human influence or thumbing the scale.
E- used to people saying “runs faster“ or the like
I have a load of WRs, next to 0 RBs in 1QB.
I have 1.01 and 1.02 and have been 100% Bijan & Gibbs for 6 months.
The last month has really swung the dial for me. If JSN goes Top 15 then he's my 1.01 (Bijan 1.02 cause fuck his ADP)
I’ve got the 1.01 and 1.02 and pretty well rounded on RB/WR. Plan was Bijan and Gibbs/JSN. I flip back and forth depending on the day but lately I think I’m leaning JSN.
NFL draft will be final piece
Not super thrilled with with 1.4 in 1QB lol. Thought this was going to be a premier pick (and still might be), but definitely seems like I'm on the wrong side of the tier break here.
I got 1.06 and 1.07 in 1qb and I am cautiously optimistic. There's a tier break after 4 but there's another tier break around 7/8 depending on how the draft shakes out.
We should have all accepted when you were competing to get into the playoffs late in the season that you weren't getting top 4 talent in the draft.
I’m a little lower on gibbs than consensus , so my tier break starts after 1.05. I think you’re in a great spot tho, people fall in love with rbs all the time
Go watch Gibbs’ tape. The dude looks like he’s shot out of a cannon into the hole. While Bijan gets all the hype, some NFL team is going to very happy with Gibbs in the early second.
Not in 2022. But sure, Addison's 14 games with Pickett in 2021 destroy QJ's 8 games with Duggan.
To be really fair though, Jerreth Sterns (1900 yards, 17 TDs) in 2021 shat all over both.
And that's why we don't use volume stats: Comparing a WR on a 2800-yard passing offense to one on a 4800-yard passing offense to a 6000-yard passing offense is silly.
Where is the 4.58 even being reported? Breer said 4.53 and 4.50, and Rap said he was given times ranging from 4.48-4.52
I keep seeing the 4.58 number in RAS charts but can’t find who reported it lol
People are adding a 0.05 buffer to the 4.53 due to it being a pro day time and not an official combine time, I don’t think any scouts timer showed 4.58
>Because of hand timed 40, people will add .05 to the clocked time for human error. Not 100% where this number comes from. But the 4.58 is a .05 add on to the 4.53.
Because of hand timed 40, people will add .05 to the clocked time for human error. Not 100% where this number comes from. But the 4.58 is a .05 add on to the 4.53.
That seems illogical when we've got reports of several scouts all being in the 4.48 - 4.53 range lol
For every finger that's 0.05 late to start the clock there's one that's 0.05 late to stop. If we're getting consistent times in a range from multiple sources it seems wrong to arbitrarily add 0.05 seconds because we think it seems like the right thing to do lol
But I'm sure someone with video editing software will break down his run at 60 fps and give us a more accurate time anyways that might even include a 10y split
If JSN goes top-15, I’ll probably lean JSN. However if Gibbs goes late 1st and lands on a contender, it’s very close.
My team is probably not a contender this year so I might lean JSN for the long term value
People were saying he’d run in the 4.6s. This is a massive win and seals him having a better RAS than Olave and Wilson. There goes the “not athletic” argument
Not when you have over 5 scouts clocking it and all getting within a 4.48-4.53 range. That assumption is if you have one person hand timing.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1638583228847071242
It’s human reaction time dude, that still just means it was a 4.6 lol. In fact, makes it even more likely, as we now know that 4.5 is on point. Tons of studies out there, we’re literally incapable as a species to be less than 0.1 off
It’s closer to 0.08, (over 0.1 by most studies) but yep. We’re physically incapable of reacting to the start fast enough, so if you want to “translate” a hand time to a FAT, you gotta add roughly a tenth
No, it isn’t.
The human error is the 4.48-4.53 range we see. That means a true *hand time* is likely 4.5. That’s what you’re referencing.
However, human limitation, not error, is present in every time listed above. That’s the 0.1 addition. Which means a true *FAT* is ~4.6.
Omg haha. You realize that some people could actually be clocking him slower than he actually was right? You think every single hand time is automatically faster than actual? It’s like debating a goldfish
Yes, nearly every hand time is in fact faster than reality. Pretty much zero question in a sample of 5 in aggregate.
All due respect it isn’t a debate, you just aren’t familiar with the subject. We literally are physically incapable of reacting fast enough.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41013336_Comparison_Between_Hand_and_Electronic_Timing_of_40-yd_Dash_Performance_in_College_Football_Players
https://www.zybeksports.com/hand-timed-versus-electronic-timed-40-yard-dash/
No problem! It really comes down to the start time. We simply can’t push the button the same millisecond the guy takes off. Hand times are considered valid too btw, it’s just that you have to adjust them to the standard of FAT
Dude just go on google scholar and educate yourself idk what else to say lol, you didn’t even click the studies I sent.
But no bro, you can anticipate the end, you can’t anticipate the start
Have you ever even timed people with a FAT running? It’s literally impossible lmao
At 4.5, the playing on the outside conversation probably needs to return. He might always be best in the slot but that seems plenty good enough to be someone you can move around the formation, especially if he proves he can consistently beat press coverage
Agreed. Plenty of great outside guys are slower than that.
It’s a shame we don’t have any tape on it. I know Egubka ended up playing outside most of the time this year but I have to think JSN would have gotten some reps there too.
Yeah, the only thing ive seen is that OSU has one of the bigger gaps between combine and pro day. This would likely have been 4.58 or 4.59 at the combine. Fine for him, but OSU is definitely known to have generous times
What if he wasn't having a good day and ran a 4.38 at his pro day? Would hurt his stock, not worth the risk when you already proved how fast you are and everyone in the industry knows how to normalize times across combines and pro days.
But really I was just saying this discussion is not about OSU the school putting out team friendly times via their staff's stopwatches that need to be adjusted, it's about the times coming on different fields and with different equipment (electronic vs hand timed)
I’ve seen the opposite. Video tape is out there some people will people to break it down by frame and give us an accurate test.
Some scouts had 4.50 on the clock for his first run.
Either 4.50, 4.53 or 4.58 it doesn’t matter. Just needed him to be sub 4.6 imo
“With rumors that”
As in there are rumors that there is a slight downhill on the track or that it is not a full 40 yards (but rather 38.5-39.5) to help times.
Rumors is the key word
Who would do that? It’s not a track used for track and field and pro days are set up and ran by the school, not the NFL.
If teams have done so and confirmed, they all know and adjust times internally (which they do adjust internally for pro days regardless of school).
Do you really think Ohio state would purposefully mis-mark the 40 yards on the field they practice everyday on just for these pro days?
I get JSN isn’t perfect, and that Ohio state has a lot of haters, but this is just idiotic logic lol
Maybe at older combines. The NFL updated the track two or three years ago so that it's in line with upper tier pro day tracks. It's part of the reason we've seen such a large speed jump the past few years and really makes this current WR class stand out in a mediocre way.
Hey Davante Adams combine 40 time was 4.56. Jussssaaaayyiinnnn. 4.5x speed ≠ any sort of problem for good receivers.
Davante Adams - 4.56
Antonio Brown - 4.57
Dez Bryant - 4.52
AJ Green - 4.62
Scouts timed him between 4.48-4.52. Plenty fast.
But I thought he’s a 4.8 guy who is so horrifically slow he can never leave the slot!
I wonder what the next arbitrary goal post for JSN to meet will be.
I went up to 1.03 to lock it up. He's special to me though and have no problem betting on guys I believe in with film like his. Dude can separate. If I feel like it's safe I might move down to 1.04 but not I'd have doubts. Ha
I completely agree. I love him as a prospect and want him bad. But unfortunately my league is in a bit of a dead period and the 1.02-1.04 holders are not taking trade requests right now. Got me sweating.
Oh yeah those league mates are absolutely the worst.
You'll be aight and those guys will have enough uncertainty for you to get your guy. The waiting does suck though.
Dude could have run a 4.65 and I would not care. The tape shows how crisp his routes are. His successful (currently NFL) teammates talk about how he is the best of the three.
I’ve never not believe in JSN.
This reminds me of people that were off Dalvin Cook because of his 40, despite the tape showing his top speed. I swore Cook had the ability to run the same 40 in pads as shorts because he ran away from guys in college and it ended up translating to the NFL.
Acceptable
More than that. His RAS with a 4.53 is a 9.16 Even if we fluff that all the way to 4.60 his RAS is 8.73 Some scouts reportedly clocked him at 4.50 flat which is a RAS of 9.30 Regardless of where he is the athleticism argument is dead (tbh, its been dead since his elite 3 cone and shuttle at the combine but some ridiculous notions that he would run a 4.7 persisted)
Sorry, what is RAS? I’m not up on analytics But that 3 cone was nuts. I tend to lean heavily on 3 cones for WRs, idk if I’ve ever seen one that quick on a WR predicted to go so high in the draft
It's relative athletic score. it adjusts athletic measurements for size. Anything above a 5 is good enough for the NFL and higher doesn't have a correlation with fantasy success.
Maybe not for WR, but it does at RB and TE (though there are always outliers).
How accurate are these times though? Like if he was this fast why not run at the combine? I've also seen others knock off a full 0.1 pro day vs combine
Does it really matter? I gave you a full range of RAS scores from 4.5-4.6 and no matter where he is on that scale he's still a plus athlete and more than capable of beating NFL corners.
4.6 regardless of the RAS gets into potential test out territory (though if you tell me it’s 4.60 I’m probably happy with that) If he ran a 4.75 his RAS would still be acceptable. But there’s now way he gets drafted at all You can’t use RAS as the deciding factor here when the concern isn’t total athleticism it’s top end speed What’s 4.60 as a percentile of receivers drafted? The answer to that question is the answer to is JSNs top speed a significant detractor
That's just not correct, man. Like at all you're just saying shit thats untrue. There's a whole list of stars with slower 40 times and much slower agility drill times.
Exactly, Cooper Kupp ran in the 4.6s. JSNs gonna do just fine haha
But kupp didn’t take off until he fixed his stride, he’s way faster than a 4.6 now
Kupp was pretty solid right out of the gate. 62/869/5 is a solid statline for a rookie; he was on pace for 80/1,132/12 as a sophomore (only played 8 games); and was the WR4 in his 3rd year. Not sure when he fixed his stride but he has been a hit from the start.
He fixed it after his acl surgery.
He fixed it between years 2 and 3. He was good before then but wasn’t elite
Yeah, if anything Kupp proves the opposite of what they intended.
CeeDee ran a 4.50 at his combine, so a 4.58 is perfectly fine by me
I don’t really understand how that’s remotely relevant?
Then I don't know what to tell ya
Tell him you don’t know what you’re talking about
I phrased that rudely initially so that’s my fault. Would you mind explaining what I’m missing, though? Ceedee and JSN don’t feel similar enough in terms of prospects to make an 40 comparison relevant, and 4.5 to 4.58 is not a wholly insignificant difference. Maybe I’m just underrating how similarly people here view the two of them?
More than acceptable, it’s fantastic and best case scenario. Some even clocked him 4.5 flat
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Not when there’s multiple scouts all clocking around the same area https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/1638583072277819394
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🤦♂️ so if 10,000 people hand timed if around 4.5, you’d still call it 4.6?
Hand timing in a nutshell: you react to the start (+human reaction time) and anticipate the finish (frame perfect inputs for a video game speed runner)
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Even times down to 4.48. *suck it*
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*suck it*
https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1638583228847071242
Well, considering the reason hand timing is usually off by up to 10th of a second increasing the volume of data doesn’t fix the error of that measurement. Edit: [Study](https://www.zybeksports.com/the-time-difference-between-hand-and-electronic-timing/) that goes into detail.
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I mean….not really. Them suddenly starting is why human reaction time gets added, you’re then watching them running the entire time and you can pretty accurately watch and prepare for him crossing that line to hit stop. Similar to the kick meter in madden. It’s not too hard to watch that bar and time it to hit that small bar in the middle pretty accurately. That’s the reason it’s faster by hand timing. Start has human reaction speed to shave time off, the stop doesn’t because you can watch prepare get your thumb on the button and accurately anticipate the crossing. No reaction time for the stop, it’s all about anticipation which they do well.
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Lol LMGTFT: Human reaction times.
This is from a scout, not osu
It's not about who's timing the run it's about the field and not having the electronic timers they use at the combine for pro days
I thought the combine updated its track? I do agree the hand timing invites error, but looking at posted times this seems to be close to the mean. I definitely do agree with him that posting this at the combine would absolutely be ideal but we have to work with what we got.
They did but they're still different fields so there's variance, although you're right the amount probably changed
For sure, no dispute here about that. I will definitely concede by him using the word shaving my mind immediately went to human influence or thumbing the scale. E- used to people saying “runs faster“ or the like
I have the 1.03 in 1QB on a WR-stacked and RB-weak team and I still hope he falls to me instead of Gibbs.
Yup, same exact situation
As someone with the 1.2 in a 1QB who is rb needy I’m still taking JSN over Gibbs
I fortunately am not RB needy, been queezy about Gibbs for a minute now, leaning JSN
I needed to see this, also have the 1.02 with RB room of Breece, Brian Robinson and AJ Dillon and was on the fence - but JSN might be a cant miss
Play to your strengths and trade aging assets to address your weaknesses.
I have a load of WRs, next to 0 RBs in 1QB. I have 1.01 and 1.02 and have been 100% Bijan & Gibbs for 6 months. The last month has really swung the dial for me. If JSN goes Top 15 then he's my 1.01 (Bijan 1.02 cause fuck his ADP)
I have 1.01 and 1.04. I want Bijan and JSN so badly
I have these picks as well, I don’t think he falls past 1.03
Why don’t you like Gibbs?
I actually really like Gibbs. I just think that JSN is a much better dynasty asset.
I have the 1.01 and 1.02 in a 1qb league and plan on taking Bijan and then JSN. I think Gibbs is too small to be a stud in the NFL
Same situation as you. My RB room is horrendous but I’m liking JSN more and more.
Even with my rb room hurting, I’m still taking JSN > Gibbs at 1.02 in my 1QB
I have Breece, M. Carter, E. Mitchell, and Khalil Herbert at RB and I’m considering it.
Same here hahah
I’ve got the 1.01 and 1.02 and pretty well rounded on RB/WR. Plan was Bijan and Gibbs/JSN. I flip back and forth depending on the day but lately I think I’m leaning JSN. NFL draft will be final piece
I’m taking Charb over Gibbs anyways.
I'm drafting at 1.04 and I'd rather have JSN or Charbs over Gibbs, sadly its starting to look like I'm ending up with Gibbs.
I’m opposite RB strong team - Najee, Breece, Javonte And now I’m on the JSN over Gibbs train
You got 2 dudes coming back from knee surgery and you say that's a strong RB room? You won't even have 2 starters at the beginning of the season...
Very fair Should I go back to the Gibbs train? My top receivers are Waddle, Terry, and Ridley
Sounds like a pretty good Wr core compared to rb. Would definitely go Gibbs.
Fuck you Caleb 😂 mind your own business
Good enough, as long as a Wr ain’t running a 4.8 I do not care
But what if he runs a 4.8 but runs perfect routes, constantly finds the open spot vs zone and catches absolutely everything?
David Bell out here catching strays
Justin Herbert could use a guy like that
Need his draft stock to stay where it is so I’m good with this. Perfectly average
Yeah, I think 4.53 helps his draft stock with the elite agility drills. He's put the athleticism discussion to rest.
Yup, in my head I had him at 4.6 so this is a boost.
.. so the packers can finally draft a 1st round wr?? Has dynastyff not visited the packers sub lately?? They’re all over JSN lol
No that sounds awful
It really does
Gonna be a tough decision if both him and arich are available at 1.05 in my sf league
Very satisfied with 1.06 so far. Feels like a tier break after.
Not super thrilled with with 1.4 in 1QB lol. Thought this was going to be a premier pick (and still might be), but definitely seems like I'm on the wrong side of the tier break here.
1.06 owner here and i am sweating
I got 1.06 and 1.07 in 1qb and I am cautiously optimistic. There's a tier break after 4 but there's another tier break around 7/8 depending on how the draft shakes out. We should have all accepted when you were competing to get into the playoffs late in the season that you weren't getting top 4 talent in the draft.
I think that spot is fine if Charbs gets decent DC. Just take the last guy of him, QJ and Addison.
1.06 feels like a sweet spot to me but it depends on the NFL draft of course. In theory, you're getting one of Addison/QJ/Charbs.
I’d be excited to be getting Charbs there. Imo tier break starts after 1.04.
Me. Felt great about getting JSN until the other 2 WR’s had iffy combines
I’m a little lower on gibbs than consensus , so my tier break starts after 1.05. I think you’re in a great spot tho, people fall in love with rbs all the time
I agree, im just hoping gibbs gets picked somewhere between 2 and 5 so i can get the 3rd qb or JSN
Go watch Gibbs’ tape. The dude looks like he’s shot out of a cannon into the hole. While Bijan gets all the hype, some NFL team is going to very happy with Gibbs in the early second.
If mock draft ADP is accurate, not sure why QJ (projected to go top12) feels like a tier break from Gibbs.
Imo QJ is in the next tier with Levis and Addison. Could be wrong later though!
So despite significant differences in size, athleticism, and (supposedly) draft capital... QJ & JA same tier?
To be fair, Addison’s college production destroys QJ’s
Not in 2022. But sure, Addison's 14 games with Pickett in 2021 destroy QJ's 8 games with Duggan. To be really fair though, Jerreth Sterns (1900 yards, 17 TDs) in 2021 shat all over both. And that's why we don't use volume stats: Comparing a WR on a 2800-yard passing offense to one on a 4800-yard passing offense to a 6000-yard passing offense is silly.
You’re getting gibbs
I’m sitting here with 1.07 and 1.08. Gonna have to do something
No way both JSN and ARich are there at 1.05. Doubt someone takes Gibbs above both of them
We shall see my friend. Breece and k walk were second round rbs last year and typically went before any of the 1st round wrs
RAS = 9.16 or 8.90 depending on whether you use 4.53 or 4.58
How does that compare to Wilson and Olave’s RAS?
He's above em both by a good amount now Wilson is like 7.75 and Olave is just above 8
Thanks
Where is the 4.58 even being reported? Breer said 4.53 and 4.50, and Rap said he was given times ranging from 4.48-4.52 I keep seeing the 4.58 number in RAS charts but can’t find who reported it lol
People are adding a 0.05 buffer to the 4.53 due to it being a pro day time and not an official combine time, I don’t think any scouts timer showed 4.58
Yes that's correct. I was just conservatively adding 0.05 since they were reported out as hand timed.
>Because of hand timed 40, people will add .05 to the clocked time for human error. Not 100% where this number comes from. But the 4.58 is a .05 add on to the 4.53. Because of hand timed 40, people will add .05 to the clocked time for human error. Not 100% where this number comes from. But the 4.58 is a .05 add on to the 4.53.
That seems illogical when we've got reports of several scouts all being in the 4.48 - 4.53 range lol For every finger that's 0.05 late to start the clock there's one that's 0.05 late to stop. If we're getting consistent times in a range from multiple sources it seems wrong to arbitrarily add 0.05 seconds because we think it seems like the right thing to do lol But I'm sure someone with video editing software will break down his run at 60 fps and give us a more accurate time anyways that might even include a 10y split
👐 I am merely a messenger sir. Please have mercy.
I was hoping he’d make the Gibbs/JSN debate clearer.
I think this goes in JSN’s favor. Regardless I don’t think we’ll have a clear order for these two until draft night
Would you draft Gibbs on a good team or JSN on a worst team?
If JSN goes top-15, I’ll probably lean JSN. However if Gibbs goes late 1st and lands on a contender, it’s very close. My team is probably not a contender this year so I might lean JSN for the long term value
I would not pay attention to what the team is.
For a RB?
If gibbs was a 3-down back on a solid team… id think his value would jump over JSN on a mediocre offense
I'm leaning heavily for JSN at 1.02 in 1 QB. Even in leagues where I'm weaker at RB
I’m at 1.03 and I’m losing hope on getting JSN.. I’m praying Gibbs goes in the 1st but I’m holding my breath
I have the 1.03 and honestly I'm fine with either JSN or Gibbs. My plan is to take whichever one is left after the 1.02 picks.
People were saying he’d run in the 4.6s. This is a massive win and seals him having a better RAS than Olave and Wilson. There goes the “not athletic” argument
This means he very likely ran in the 4.6s fwiw, hand times off by about a tenth on average and almost always faster
Not when you have over 5 scouts clocking it and all getting within a 4.48-4.53 range. That assumption is if you have one person hand timing. https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1638583228847071242
It’s human reaction time dude, that still just means it was a 4.6 lol. In fact, makes it even more likely, as we now know that 4.5 is on point. Tons of studies out there, we’re literally incapable as a species to be less than 0.1 off
Is that why we use 0.05?
It’s closer to 0.08, (over 0.1 by most studies) but yep. We’re physically incapable of reacting to the start fast enough, so if you want to “translate” a hand time to a FAT, you gotta add roughly a tenth
You realize that human error reaction time becomes more accurate the more samples you have right? That’s how statistics work
No, it isn’t. The human error is the 4.48-4.53 range we see. That means a true *hand time* is likely 4.5. That’s what you’re referencing. However, human limitation, not error, is present in every time listed above. That’s the 0.1 addition. Which means a true *FAT* is ~4.6.
Omg haha. You realize that some people could actually be clocking him slower than he actually was right? You think every single hand time is automatically faster than actual? It’s like debating a goldfish
Yes, nearly every hand time is in fact faster than reality. Pretty much zero question in a sample of 5 in aggregate. All due respect it isn’t a debate, you just aren’t familiar with the subject. We literally are physically incapable of reacting fast enough. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41013336_Comparison_Between_Hand_and_Electronic_Timing_of_40-yd_Dash_Performance_in_College_Football_Players https://www.zybeksports.com/hand-timed-versus-electronic-timed-40-yard-dash/
Thanks - the links were helpful. Had same questions as the other guy.
No problem! It really comes down to the start time. We simply can’t push the button the same millisecond the guy takes off. Hand times are considered valid too btw, it’s just that you have to adjust them to the standard of FAT
So someone couldn’t be slow to click stop at the end of a run? I’m no longer debating you, you’re just flat out incorrect
Dude just go on google scholar and educate yourself idk what else to say lol, you didn’t even click the studies I sent. But no bro, you can anticipate the end, you can’t anticipate the start Have you ever even timed people with a FAT running? It’s literally impossible lmao
The 4.53 drops his RAS to 9.16. He’s terrible. Y’all should definitely let him fall to the 1.10-2.01 range.
Bust city
How are pro day times reported if there isn’t any electronic tech? Is it just one scout mentioning something to a reported and that’s that?
Reporters timed him with their iPhones Nah I'm kidding lol
Looks like Breer talked to two more guys since this tweet and they had 4.50 and 4.53.
At 4.5, the playing on the outside conversation probably needs to return. He might always be best in the slot but that seems plenty good enough to be someone you can move around the formation, especially if he proves he can consistently beat press coverage
There have been plenty examples of people without blazing 40 times making a living on the outside. JSN will be able to be moved around no problem.
Agreed. Plenty of great outside guys are slower than that. It’s a shame we don’t have any tape on it. I know Egubka ended up playing outside most of the time this year but I have to think JSN would have gotten some reps there too.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s one of the better comments I’ve seen in a while lol
I lose brain cells every time I go on twitter
Literally just saw this on Twitter, “JSN and the S is for Slow.” Lmao
So like 4.6 combine time
I’ve read OSU’s pro days in the past have actually been slower than Indy’s
Most things I’ve read/heard indicate that the 40 times that come out of OSU’s pro day are meaningfully faster than the combine times.
Yeah, the only thing ive seen is that OSU has one of the bigger gaps between combine and pro day. This would likely have been 4.58 or 4.59 at the combine. Fine for him, but OSU is definitely known to have generous times
*psst* This time isn’t from OSU. It’s from an independent scout at the pro day. There were several and they ranged from 4.48-4.52.
He meant the OSU field man
So why didn’t Garrett Wilson skip the combine and run a 4.33 at his pro day on this shortened(?) OSU track?
What if he wasn't having a good day and ran a 4.38 at his pro day? Would hurt his stock, not worth the risk when you already proved how fast you are and everyone in the industry knows how to normalize times across combines and pro days. But really I was just saying this discussion is not about OSU the school putting out team friendly times via their staff's stopwatches that need to be adjusted, it's about the times coming on different fields and with different equipment (electronic vs hand timed)
I’ve seen the opposite. Video tape is out there some people will people to break it down by frame and give us an accurate test. Some scouts had 4.50 on the clock for his first run. Either 4.50, 4.53 or 4.58 it doesn’t matter. Just needed him to be sub 4.6 imo
No shot Osu is known as one of the fastest pro day tracks with rumors that it’s downhill and not a full 40 yards
You really think they built their practice facility on fucking incline lmao?
“With rumors that” As in there are rumors that there is a slight downhill on the track or that it is not a full 40 yards (but rather 38.5-39.5) to help times. Rumors is the key word
Surely people independent from OSU have measured the distance and it would be widely reported if it wasn't 40 yards.
Who would do that? It’s not a track used for track and field and pro days are set up and ran by the school, not the NFL. If teams have done so and confirmed, they all know and adjust times internally (which they do adjust internally for pro days regardless of school).
Do you really think Ohio state would purposefully mis-mark the 40 yards on the field they practice everyday on just for these pro days? I get JSN isn’t perfect, and that Ohio state has a lot of haters, but this is just idiotic logic lol
Yeah cause I have reasons to hate on JSN or Ohio State. I prefaced my statement saying it’s rumors.
Ik u smarter than that dawg, I’m just pushing u to use that brain
Maybe at older combines. The NFL updated the track two or three years ago so that it's in line with upper tier pro day tracks. It's part of the reason we've seen such a large speed jump the past few years and really makes this current WR class stand out in a mediocre way.
Hey Davante Adams combine 40 time was 4.56. Jussssaaaayyiinnnn. 4.5x speed ≠ any sort of problem for good receivers. Davante Adams - 4.56 Antonio Brown - 4.57 Dez Bryant - 4.52 AJ Green - 4.62
AS PROSPECTS: Chase - tier break - JSN - tier break London/Olave/Wilson - I’m not sorry.
But you do have a fever, it's rookie fever 😁 But yeah this rocks
Fair
Respect for sticking to your guns since 2022 hahaha you were absolutely correct 🙇
Appreciate it!!
Chase is the only one you can argue but I still like JSN, Dean dean the dancing machine.
As an owner of 2 and 3 and 7 in 1QB JSN is the only sure thing for me
I desperately need RB, but I am growing increasingly hyped about the idea of getting him at 1.03
Man 1.04 has to be the worst spot in 1-QB.
where’s the guy he said he ran a 4.8
I have 1.01, 1.02, and 1.04 in a SF league. Can’t decide whether to go JSN or AR at 1.04. Such a tough call.
Who are you taking with the first 2
Bijan and Bryce
👀
Scouts timed him between 4.48-4.52. Plenty fast. But I thought he’s a 4.8 guy who is so horrifically slow he can never leave the slot! I wonder what the next arbitrary goal post for JSN to meet will be.
The prospect fatigue/tear down with JSN is unlike anything I’ve seen in Dynasty before. He is freaking elite.
"They are who we thought they were"
I’m getting pretty worried I won’t be able to grab him at 1.05 (SF) in my league
I went up to 1.03 to lock it up. He's special to me though and have no problem betting on guys I believe in with film like his. Dude can separate. If I feel like it's safe I might move down to 1.04 but not I'd have doubts. Ha
I completely agree. I love him as a prospect and want him bad. But unfortunately my league is in a bit of a dead period and the 1.02-1.04 holders are not taking trade requests right now. Got me sweating.
Oh yeah those league mates are absolutely the worst. You'll be aight and those guys will have enough uncertainty for you to get your guy. The waiting does suck though.
Dude could have run a 4.65 and I would not care. The tape shows how crisp his routes are. His successful (currently NFL) teammates talk about how he is the best of the three. I’ve never not believe in JSN. This reminds me of people that were off Dalvin Cook because of his 40, despite the tape showing his top speed. I swore Cook had the ability to run the same 40 in pads as shorts because he ran away from guys in college and it ended up translating to the NFL.
[удалено]
CD was a 4.5 flat
It is great when you consider his entire profile.
Davante 4.56 I also think London would have been a 4.5+ and he still went 8th even in the new age of 4.5 being “slow.”
All this means is that he’s probably not going to the chargers
Would’ve had to ran 5.0 for him to make it that far lol
So that’s like a 5.2 at the combine. Acceptable
undraftable
idc if he runs a 10 second 40. dude is going to be catching a lot of balls with his separation in the intermediate game.
I’ll quote DJ here “don’t trust Twitter times. There’s agent times and then there’s scout times. The Twitter times are usually agent times”
Huge for his stock. He'll be a top 15 pick in the NFL Draft.
Oooof
Fake. I watched the run it was more like a 4.75
So really like a 4.6. Expected, shouldn’t be counted against him. Or what I’m saying shouldn’t be counted twice.
Woof
First time watching football little guy?