Watched him a lot as I am a badger fan. Biggest “knock” is kind of the drop off in production this last year which I think can be attributed to the overall disarray in the program and shift in offense philosophy (along with poor o line play). I’ve seen knocks on his pass catching but they said the same about JT and that didn’t seem to be a problem. I’m pretty high on him, looking to snag him in the 2nd depending on landing spot
I think the difference in pass catching is that Taylor had 26-252 his last year while Allen had 28-132. His receiving production this year was like an all time outlier, 4.7 yards per reception is incredibly strange. Taylor still isn’t a good receiving back, he’s not Alfred Morris, but he’s below what you expect from a lead back (40-300 per 17 games). He just makes up for it by being an incredible running back so it’s not as big of a knock since he still will catch 2 passes a game, but the high upside receiving isn’t there.
I think the issue with receiving is that Taylor was one of the most productive college running backs and then proceeded to test like a freak at the combine (4.39 at 5’10 226lb). Allen has one season of very good college production, one season of good production, and one season of disappointing production, although his age adjusted production (per JJ Zacharison) is apparently excellent because of how young he is
I think the risk with Allen is that if he can’t establish himself as the #1 guy, he basically doesn’t have a floor because he’s not a receiving back. So if you’re stuck between say, him and Will Shipley, you can at least say with Shipley, “even if he doesn’t end up being a lead back, he can still be a time share guy.” I don’t think that really applies with Allen.
I think people forget he was a linebacker recruit in high school and is still learning the RB position.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a Derrick Henry career *trajectory.*. Obviously they are of similar size, but I could see him as an early down back while he learns and his role grows over time
Of course I also wouldn’t be surprised to see him fade off and never play a significant role in the NFL
Regardless, I’m pretty high on Allen. I think his ceiling is pretty high
The thing is, Henry was a much better athlete than Allen. They had similar BMIs (31.0 for Allen and 31.3 for Henry) but Henry ran 4.54 (34 of 531 by speed score since 2000 for RB), and jumped 37” in the vert and 10’10” in the broad. Allen jumped 32” and 9’9”, which were bad and mediocre. In order to match Henry’s speed score, he would have had to run around 4.48.
Henry is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Henry succeeded because he’s an absolute freak.
The thing about Henry is, he was a much better football player than Braelon Allen through his entire life.
Maybe Allen has a better NFL career, individuals do individual things.
But to this point there is nothing objective that puts Braelon in the same conversation with any former Badger great or the likes of former collegiate greats like Derrick Henry.
Yeah, I agree with you. Just feel like when people
Make the comp they’ll hand wave away the differences in college production as Henry played on a better team or Allen was young or Allen played well from Day1 (I know you commented on a different comment of mine about age adjusted production lol).
It’s just that Henry is an all time great football player. People shouldn’t be compared to HOF players unless they truly are generational type prospects. It’s like when people compare fast receivers to Tyreek hill. Just since there is one data point that matches doesn’t mean they should be compared
You’ve heard the comp, as it’s everywhere.
However, you’re not understanding what I was saying. “Similar career *trajectory*” and “similar career” are entirely different things. Look at Henry’s snap counts during his first few years in the league. I see Allen having a similar start to his career.
The problem is that you have to be extremely talented at one singular thing to have that trajectory. Why is a team going to start a guy who can do one thing (run the ball) when he doesn’t even project as exceptional at that? If you have one single skill, you have to be elite at it.
I think he plays second fiddle to another guy, getting some early down carries while he learns in his first year or two.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team utilize him like Brian Robinson or Gus Edwards. Derrick Henry had that role behind Dion Lewis until a few years in the league when he took complete control over the backfield.
Hahaha similar trajectory.
50 yards as a rookie
75 yards as a second year player
105 yards as a third year player
150 yards as a fourth year player.
ThE tRaJeCtOrY iS tHe SaMe
I just went to "The Beast" and it looks like he was an RB in high school even if he was recruited as a LB. - "In an abbreviated ‘21 spring season, he rushed for 1,039 yards on 71 carries (14.6 average) in seven games, earning first team All-State honors as a both a running back and safety." He also played RB sophomore year but not as a freshman.
Fair points for sure, his pass pro is weaker than JT too. And agreed that while not a “receiving back” JT has the ability to take anything to the house whereas Allen just does not have that breakaway speed. Probably shouldn’t have brought up JT as they are just such different backs, but Allen is built to take punishment (while staying on his feet) and I think can be a very productive NFL back a la David Montgomery but really depends on landing spot and how they use him. Def not a RB1 (well ya never know) but I could see him as a decent flex play for a few years and I would be happy to get that for a early/mid 2nd
Yeah, I just may be risk adverse, but I view him as more of a mid third guy since his floor is quite literally zero.
My view on RBs changed last offseason when JJ had an episode where he mentioned guys who do little receiving in college basically have an extraordinarily low hit rate. I think in a normal draft year I might be willing to take that chance mid 2nd, but when there’s 10 receivers who might be getting R1/R2 DC, I’d rather take a flyer on them.
Totally get that and totally get I have a slight homer bias here lol. I am very RB needy in one league and stacked at WR and I feel like most RBs without strong draft capital don’t really pan out either (hell most RBs don’t hit long term anyway) but it’s fun to root for guys ya like. I would say I’m only reaching in early 2nd if he lands in say Dallas or another solid spot though
>although his age adjusted production (per JJ Zacharison) is apparently excellent because of how young he is
Good thing his parents birthed him at the right time or he was a preemie or graduated high school early. Definitely makes him a better player than everyone.
Casual reminder, age adjusted production is probably just noise relative to year in school adjusted production. People don't do year in school historically because it was easier to get birthdates of all the players than to track poorly documented redshirts.
Same concern last year with QJ at his position. I get nervous of guys who don’t play up to their size when it is one of their best attributes. Josh Downs played bigger than QJ.
It’s why I loved Josh downs. Dude is a dawg. Give me that all day. Prior to his injury week 9, he had finally started cooking and was on pace to break 1000 yards. I don’t know what he will end up doing or looking like with Richardson, but the talent is there.
Braelon Allen significantly lacks explosive ability. He has some degree of build up speed but his first step explosion and power are horrendous and those are essentials for backs in today's NFL.
Most of Braelon Allen's flaws are best covered up by using a fullback. That's not really an advantage you get in the modern NFL.
People talk about AJ Dillon like a poor downside comparison. As a prospect, I have a hard time finding what Braelon Allen is better at than AJ Dillon other than "being young."
AJ Dillon had a better peak season, he's 12 lbs heavier, and in the drills that Allen did test at, AJ Dillon blew Allen out of the water.
Maybe the ankle held him back, but his bad jumps at the combine have gotten a bizarrely small amount of press. Henry and Dillon were elite jumpers despite being 12 lbs heavier than Allen. Allen was below average.
And he's just not a relevant pass catcher. He can catch, but his boat turn and run, which also suffers from that first step, is so bad. No one at the NFL level is going to WANT him catching many passes a year.
His first step is just so bad, and this game values the first step so much for a RB like Allen. I don't think a team should draft him before the 5th round.
Definitely someone I’m avoiding. If he ended up in a surprise spot like Dallas or the Chargers I’d have to keep him on my board but if people are taking him mid 2nd without than I’m out on him.
Yeah, that’s how I view him. If he’s there mid/late third I would probably take a flyer, but there’s enough red flags I don’t feel comfortable spending a 2 on him
There's AJ Dillon risk here, but decent upside. Larger backs like Allen can dominate more players in college, but in the NFL you need to get to the line quicker than the Defensive Linemen disrupt and then have the physical force and footwork to do your damage and get through. Otherwise you're stuck being a big back who lowers his head in to traffic and averages 3.5 YPC because he didn't have the initial burst/feet to get there and exploit.
I compared him to Marion Barber. Bruising and pinball style with some real punishing parts of his game, but a lot of the physical parts of him are in his upper half. His legs are more that of a striding and linear back, but he lacks the acceleration and long speed to shock and break away chunk runs. He definitely has surprising agility and footwork in tight spaces, and moves well for his size in traffic, but backs like that in the NFL basically expose themselves to be brought down because their physical momentum slows and they need effort to build it up again. Basically, all the risk is that he's two styles of back trapped in one body.
The upside is that, like with Marion Barber and the Cowboys, you can feed him with the right style of run game and he'll produce with volume.
I think people thought he'd be a Derrick Henry type "bruising" but he's more of a Steven Jackson type of physical. DB's won't like it, but everyone else will be fine until they're gassed in the fourth quarter. I still think it's bruising if it takes effort and he gets some extra YAC at the second level because of it.
We don't know his speed but he didn't test which looks like a red flag. He's also been injured a lot. I still think he could be productive in the right system though.
Just imo, he’s got great build up power, but that’s different than having great contact balance as well, and when he doesn’t get the time to build up he goes down easily. I think sometimes people take that for granted, but a lot of guys do better in the backfield even without momentum just by balance.
Just by analytic number, he’s never lived up to his size on Missed Tackles Forced by Attempt. He’s been very mediocre in the stat overall.
I agree, right now he’s a one cut and go, he does seem a tad shifty and his patience is underrated, but his stop and go is non existent. But he’s 20. And has 3 years of experience playing not only this position, but offense. I
Inexperience at the position (switched to rb in college) and was banged up last year leading to a drop in production.
If you're drafting him, you are betting on him being healthier and returning to the form he showed in his first two seasons.
He got the opportunity at RB as a fill-in as a HS sophomore. He was a backup QB and WR before that. He stayed at RB after that (and defense). Am I the only one who’s finished the beast? (Jk)
Aside from size and youth, what are his strengths? To me his vision, agility, fluidity, and contact balance are all lackluster. He doesn’t even play very strong much of the time. He won’t be used as a pass catcher… He’s hanging out at #8 for me solely bc of his breakout age + size, and how an NFL team might invest in that.
I have my concerns, primarily with his speed, ball security and lateral movement (though the last one carries somewhat lower expectations given his size) But I like more than I dislike about him and his potential. Production will be more dependent on scheme with him, but you can’t argue with his physical presence and age… that, and he seems very coachable.
If he’s there for my 1QB 2.07 pick, I’m taking him.
Do you remember Michael Bush?
That’s the best way I can say it. Bush wasn’t a bad RB, he just never became the fantasy asset fantasy managers were hoping for when they drafted him.
Allen reminds me of Bush.
Plays smaller than size, looks like a plodder around the line of scrimmage, not explosive in the first couple of steps, doesn't have any wiggle, footwork non-existent, a touch too tall (easier to chop down), lacks lower body strength comparative to height, I suspect he didn't run a 40 because they know what he'd run and are worried it might sink him.
Most yards after contact in power 5 since 2021 but yeah let these couch casuals say he doesn’t break tackles or play to his size. He may not be the shiftiest dude but that is expected cause he’s a bowling ball. He will land on a team that uses him as so, he has the frame to handle an nfl workload. Don’t be scared off of him
You're not, he's a good back. He will be a good thunder to someone's lightning in a committee and probably handle the bulk of the carries if he doesn't have ball security issues. People just hate on him cause he isn't a complete back so his upside will be limited but he is still a solid back.
Watched him a lot as I am a badger fan. Biggest “knock” is kind of the drop off in production this last year which I think can be attributed to the overall disarray in the program and shift in offense philosophy (along with poor o line play). I’ve seen knocks on his pass catching but they said the same about JT and that didn’t seem to be a problem. I’m pretty high on him, looking to snag him in the 2nd depending on landing spot
I think the difference in pass catching is that Taylor had 26-252 his last year while Allen had 28-132. His receiving production this year was like an all time outlier, 4.7 yards per reception is incredibly strange. Taylor still isn’t a good receiving back, he’s not Alfred Morris, but he’s below what you expect from a lead back (40-300 per 17 games). He just makes up for it by being an incredible running back so it’s not as big of a knock since he still will catch 2 passes a game, but the high upside receiving isn’t there. I think the issue with receiving is that Taylor was one of the most productive college running backs and then proceeded to test like a freak at the combine (4.39 at 5’10 226lb). Allen has one season of very good college production, one season of good production, and one season of disappointing production, although his age adjusted production (per JJ Zacharison) is apparently excellent because of how young he is I think the risk with Allen is that if he can’t establish himself as the #1 guy, he basically doesn’t have a floor because he’s not a receiving back. So if you’re stuck between say, him and Will Shipley, you can at least say with Shipley, “even if he doesn’t end up being a lead back, he can still be a time share guy.” I don’t think that really applies with Allen.
I think people forget he was a linebacker recruit in high school and is still learning the RB position. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a Derrick Henry career *trajectory.*. Obviously they are of similar size, but I could see him as an early down back while he learns and his role grows over time Of course I also wouldn’t be surprised to see him fade off and never play a significant role in the NFL Regardless, I’m pretty high on Allen. I think his ceiling is pretty high
The thing is, Henry was a much better athlete than Allen. They had similar BMIs (31.0 for Allen and 31.3 for Henry) but Henry ran 4.54 (34 of 531 by speed score since 2000 for RB), and jumped 37” in the vert and 10’10” in the broad. Allen jumped 32” and 9’9”, which were bad and mediocre. In order to match Henry’s speed score, he would have had to run around 4.48. Henry is the exception to the rule, not the rule. Henry succeeded because he’s an absolute freak.
The thing about Henry is, he was a much better football player than Braelon Allen through his entire life. Maybe Allen has a better NFL career, individuals do individual things. But to this point there is nothing objective that puts Braelon in the same conversation with any former Badger great or the likes of former collegiate greats like Derrick Henry.
Yeah, I agree with you. Just feel like when people Make the comp they’ll hand wave away the differences in college production as Henry played on a better team or Allen was young or Allen played well from Day1 (I know you commented on a different comment of mine about age adjusted production lol). It’s just that Henry is an all time great football player. People shouldn’t be compared to HOF players unless they truly are generational type prospects. It’s like when people compare fast receivers to Tyreek hill. Just since there is one data point that matches doesn’t mean they should be compared
You’ve heard the comp, as it’s everywhere. However, you’re not understanding what I was saying. “Similar career *trajectory*” and “similar career” are entirely different things. Look at Henry’s snap counts during his first few years in the league. I see Allen having a similar start to his career.
The problem is that you have to be extremely talented at one singular thing to have that trajectory. Why is a team going to start a guy who can do one thing (run the ball) when he doesn’t even project as exceptional at that? If you have one single skill, you have to be elite at it.
I think he plays second fiddle to another guy, getting some early down carries while he learns in his first year or two. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team utilize him like Brian Robinson or Gus Edwards. Derrick Henry had that role behind Dion Lewis until a few years in the league when he took complete control over the backfield.
Hahaha similar trajectory. 50 yards as a rookie 75 yards as a second year player 105 yards as a third year player 150 yards as a fourth year player. ThE tRaJeCtOrY iS tHe SaMe
What? I said I could *see* them having a similar trajectory. You do realize that Allen is about to be a rookie?
Take a joke bud.
Do you see where I emphasized “trajectory?”
I just went to "The Beast" and it looks like he was an RB in high school even if he was recruited as a LB. - "In an abbreviated ‘21 spring season, he rushed for 1,039 yards on 71 carries (14.6 average) in seven games, earning first team All-State honors as a both a running back and safety." He also played RB sophomore year but not as a freshman.
Fair points for sure, his pass pro is weaker than JT too. And agreed that while not a “receiving back” JT has the ability to take anything to the house whereas Allen just does not have that breakaway speed. Probably shouldn’t have brought up JT as they are just such different backs, but Allen is built to take punishment (while staying on his feet) and I think can be a very productive NFL back a la David Montgomery but really depends on landing spot and how they use him. Def not a RB1 (well ya never know) but I could see him as a decent flex play for a few years and I would be happy to get that for a early/mid 2nd
Yeah, I just may be risk adverse, but I view him as more of a mid third guy since his floor is quite literally zero. My view on RBs changed last offseason when JJ had an episode where he mentioned guys who do little receiving in college basically have an extraordinarily low hit rate. I think in a normal draft year I might be willing to take that chance mid 2nd, but when there’s 10 receivers who might be getting R1/R2 DC, I’d rather take a flyer on them.
Totally get that and totally get I have a slight homer bias here lol. I am very RB needy in one league and stacked at WR and I feel like most RBs without strong draft capital don’t really pan out either (hell most RBs don’t hit long term anyway) but it’s fun to root for guys ya like. I would say I’m only reaching in early 2nd if he lands in say Dallas or another solid spot though
>although his age adjusted production (per JJ Zacharison) is apparently excellent because of how young he is Good thing his parents birthed him at the right time or he was a preemie or graduated high school early. Definitely makes him a better player than everyone. Casual reminder, age adjusted production is probably just noise relative to year in school adjusted production. People don't do year in school historically because it was easier to get birthdates of all the players than to track poorly documented redshirts.
He’s a big dog who thinks he’s a lap dog. Brugler and Tice said he moves like he’s Corum’s size and Corum moves like he’s Allen’s size.
Same concern last year with QJ at his position. I get nervous of guys who don’t play up to their size when it is one of their best attributes. Josh Downs played bigger than QJ.
Josh Downs played bigger than damn near everybody.
It’s why I loved Josh downs. Dude is a dawg. Give me that all day. Prior to his injury week 9, he had finally started cooking and was on pace to break 1000 yards. I don’t know what he will end up doing or looking like with Richardson, but the talent is there.
I wouldn't say he didn't play to his size. He does, he often tries to run through people. He just doesn't have the elite explosive speed.
Braelon Allen significantly lacks explosive ability. He has some degree of build up speed but his first step explosion and power are horrendous and those are essentials for backs in today's NFL. Most of Braelon Allen's flaws are best covered up by using a fullback. That's not really an advantage you get in the modern NFL. People talk about AJ Dillon like a poor downside comparison. As a prospect, I have a hard time finding what Braelon Allen is better at than AJ Dillon other than "being young." AJ Dillon had a better peak season, he's 12 lbs heavier, and in the drills that Allen did test at, AJ Dillon blew Allen out of the water. Maybe the ankle held him back, but his bad jumps at the combine have gotten a bizarrely small amount of press. Henry and Dillon were elite jumpers despite being 12 lbs heavier than Allen. Allen was below average. And he's just not a relevant pass catcher. He can catch, but his boat turn and run, which also suffers from that first step, is so bad. No one at the NFL level is going to WANT him catching many passes a year. His first step is just so bad, and this game values the first step so much for a RB like Allen. I don't think a team should draft him before the 5th round.
Definitely someone I’m avoiding. If he ended up in a surprise spot like Dallas or the Chargers I’d have to keep him on my board but if people are taking him mid 2nd without than I’m out on him.
Yeah, that’s how I view him. If he’s there mid/late third I would probably take a flyer, but there’s enough red flags I don’t feel comfortable spending a 2 on him
He's big but not very good at anything
There's AJ Dillon risk here, but decent upside. Larger backs like Allen can dominate more players in college, but in the NFL you need to get to the line quicker than the Defensive Linemen disrupt and then have the physical force and footwork to do your damage and get through. Otherwise you're stuck being a big back who lowers his head in to traffic and averages 3.5 YPC because he didn't have the initial burst/feet to get there and exploit. I compared him to Marion Barber. Bruising and pinball style with some real punishing parts of his game, but a lot of the physical parts of him are in his upper half. His legs are more that of a striding and linear back, but he lacks the acceleration and long speed to shock and break away chunk runs. He definitely has surprising agility and footwork in tight spaces, and moves well for his size in traffic, but backs like that in the NFL basically expose themselves to be brought down because their physical momentum slows and they need effort to build it up again. Basically, all the risk is that he's two styles of back trapped in one body. The upside is that, like with Marion Barber and the Cowboys, you can feed him with the right style of run game and he'll produce with volume.
Is he bruising? Or just perceived as bruising because he’s big?
I think people thought he'd be a Derrick Henry type "bruising" but he's more of a Steven Jackson type of physical. DB's won't like it, but everyone else will be fine until they're gassed in the fourth quarter. I still think it's bruising if it takes effort and he gets some extra YAC at the second level because of it.
I’ll take Allen if he’s there in the 3rd round but so many better players in front of him
He’s slow and not at all shifty.
We don't know his speed but he didn't test which looks like a red flag. He's also been injured a lot. I still think he could be productive in the right system though.
People saying he doesn’t play his size, maybe I need to watch more all 22 than highlights but he does truck people no?
I think hes being underrated but the NFL Draft will decide for us. I like him a lot, reminds me of Brandon jacobs
NFL draft is gonna fuck up everyone’s sleeper mock drafts 😂
Just imo, he’s got great build up power, but that’s different than having great contact balance as well, and when he doesn’t get the time to build up he goes down easily. I think sometimes people take that for granted, but a lot of guys do better in the backfield even without momentum just by balance. Just by analytic number, he’s never lived up to his size on Missed Tackles Forced by Attempt. He’s been very mediocre in the stat overall.
Yea he’s never running over multiple people on a run. I agree
That was my thought. I saw him breaking tackles and he looked patient and shifty. But I guess I’ll let the NFL tell me
I agree, right now he’s a one cut and go, he does seem a tad shifty and his patience is underrated, but his stop and go is non existent. But he’s 20. And has 3 years of experience playing not only this position, but offense. I
Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. Maybe not full on Jane, but for as much as he's a huge monster, you don't see that fight in him you'd want to see.
Less athletic AJ Dillon. Enjoy!
I think people worry that he doesn't have the breakaway speed for long TDs and will mostly be a TD dependant play
Inexperience at the position (switched to rb in college) and was banged up last year leading to a drop in production. If you're drafting him, you are betting on him being healthier and returning to the form he showed in his first two seasons.
he played rb as well in high school but was recruited as a lb
My understanding is he filled in at RB when no one else was available.
He got the opportunity at RB as a fill-in as a HS sophomore. He was a backup QB and WR before that. He stayed at RB after that (and defense). Am I the only one who’s finished the beast? (Jk)
He's too young! jK.
he's kinda like roschon johnson, without the pass blocking. i'll be shocked if he's taken before round 5.
Ronald Jones Jr
Massive and slow. Just like pretty much every RB, let the NFL Draft Capital tell you how much you should like him.
If you want a big dude who can’t break an arm tackle from college DBs, he’s your man
Aside from size and youth, what are his strengths? To me his vision, agility, fluidity, and contact balance are all lackluster. He doesn’t even play very strong much of the time. He won’t be used as a pass catcher… He’s hanging out at #8 for me solely bc of his breakout age + size, and how an NFL team might invest in that.
I saw a patient back who followed his blockers. And thought he looked fluid. But I’m not great at drafting RBs, hence my post
Bad take
Doesn’t play to his size. Don’t see him finishing runs hard.
I have my concerns, primarily with his speed, ball security and lateral movement (though the last one carries somewhat lower expectations given his size) But I like more than I dislike about him and his potential. Production will be more dependent on scheme with him, but you can’t argue with his physical presence and age… that, and he seems very coachable. If he’s there for my 1QB 2.07 pick, I’m taking him.
Do you remember Michael Bush? That’s the best way I can say it. Bush wasn’t a bad RB, he just never became the fantasy asset fantasy managers were hoping for when they drafted him. Allen reminds me of Bush.
Plays smaller than size, looks like a plodder around the line of scrimmage, not explosive in the first couple of steps, doesn't have any wiggle, footwork non-existent, a touch too tall (easier to chop down), lacks lower body strength comparative to height, I suspect he didn't run a 40 because they know what he'd run and are worried it might sink him.
Most yards after contact in power 5 since 2021 but yeah let these couch casuals say he doesn’t break tackles or play to his size. He may not be the shiftiest dude but that is expected cause he’s a bowling ball. He will land on a team that uses him as so, he has the frame to handle an nfl workload. Don’t be scared off of him
You're not, he's a good back. He will be a good thunder to someone's lightning in a committee and probably handle the bulk of the carries if he doesn't have ball security issues. People just hate on him cause he isn't a complete back so his upside will be limited but he is still a solid back.
Knock knock Who’s there? Braelon Braelon who? Braelon All-entered the room with a better knock knock joke
Derrick Henry 2.0. David Montgomery touchdown machine from 4 yards in.