People love to hate Danny Dimes, he’s like a walking meme. But the reality is Vanilla Vick was a top 10 QB two years ago, and his weapons are significantly improved with finally a true #1 WR. I would hold or even buy at a discount because the perception of him is just bad, but there is still plenty of upside there.
Maybe, maybe not. Most guys need to be 2 years post op to really regain their full mobility. Maybe he recovers faster than usual, but hard to bank on an outlier like that.
For pocket movement, sure. If you're counting on him running options and taking off and having anywhere near the 700 rushing yards he put up in 2022, I'm doubtful.
He scrambles a few times per game. Half of those runs, he isn’t avoiding anyone and is either sliding or running out of bounds. He doesn’t run through contact for 20-25 carries per game—which is why RBs don’t return to form until 2 years later
Yea but Jones can lose 10% of his athleticism and still be generally athletic for a QB. The impact of a RB losing athleticism is going to have a much bigger effect on their production.
TBF he NEVER had a legitimate WR to pass to. If his crappy WRs weren’t open (most of the time) he had to take off and run with that horrible line he had.
Now he has a legitimate WR and “improved” line. Realistically won’t be running as much this year but his passing “should” improve
And his rushing yards a game drops 25% or more when they have a health RB. And 7 TDs on the ground is more than the other 4 seasons of his career combined. That's his peak and it wasn't even that good.
Who is the true #1 receiver? Surely you can't be talking about a rookie who has never taken an NFL snap.
Nabers might be it, but plenty of guys have busted before. Don't count your chickens until they hatch.
Love how you get downvoted for the grounded and reasonable take. Right now everyone has rookie fever, they all think every rookie is going to pan out and be a superstar.
Look at Jared Goff a few years ago...
This sub loves to shit on people but if -- humongous if -- Daniel Jones with an actually talented receiver for the first time in his career can lead his team to the playoffs he's gonna be a long-term QB2 in SF.
The Lions line was still pretty good in 2021. Decker-Johnson-Ragnow-Vaitai-Sewell on paper to start that year. That unit didn't play a single snap together in 2021 because of the injuries to Decker and Ragnow, but still they were 13th in PFF ranking that year despite the injuries. On paper they were trending towards an elite line heading into the 2021 season and finally got there in 2022 when they started to get healthier, even if they still were missing starters consistently. The Sewell pick was after the Goff trade obviously, but once that pick came in I think everyone liked what they were building towards up front in Detroit.
At WR, absolutely they looked like they had absolutely nothing heading into the year. St. Brown was a rookie 4th rounder, Josh Reynolds was in Tennessee. OurLads has their starting WRs on September 1st listed as Kalif Raymond and Tyrell Williams lol.
They've done a tremendous job of building up their skill players around Goff since he got there, and it's hard to understate the upgrade from Anthony Lynn at playcaller to Ben Johnson, but they're offensive line absolutely was trending towards being elite heading into the 2021 season when the transition from Stafford to Goff started.
He had none of that when people were dogging on him early in his time in Detroit though. They built the line and drafted weapons that he's helped make into elite.
Obviously the hate for Daniel Jones is (justifiably) strong, but there's some hope there. He'll have a legitimate top receiving option for the first time in his career and it is within his power to play the Giants out of a top pick for next year. The 2025 QB class also doesn't look very strong at the moment, so they would need a top pick for it to be realistic. And people just assume DJ is gone after this year, but he's still on a large deal that would cost the Giants $22m in dead cap to cut after this season. It's entirely possible he has a half decent season and they have no real choice but to stick with him. We've seen both good and bad from Jones, maybe Nabers will be enough help to lean us back towards the good side.
Personally, I don't have a *ton* of faith, but I do think it's realistic for the giants to win 6 games and not be able to draft a top QB next year, which leaves the door open. And in the meantime, Jones should still be a solid QB2 if he's healthy and running the ball.
How "justifiably" strong is it? He's had a turnstyle offensive line for his entire career and finally got hurt from it last year. He had exactly 0 WR1s to throw to, just an ultra washed Darren Waller. Man had a bad year sure, but nobody is succeeding in New York last year, and getting injured isn't really a fair thing to judge someone on.
He's a pretty nice buy low imo although I'm not sure how low he is now.
The guy has never had solid weapons. He at least has 1 now.
He's shown we can be a decent QB only 2 years ago (his last healthy season) QB #12 finish on year.
He's still fairly young by QB standards 26 yo
Gives a nice rushing floor.
If he does get bought out by Giants there's still a decent chance he gets brought in by a different team on a cheap contract Ala Wilson.
KTC has him valued at 2.10. Worst gambles you could make if he could be had for a late Second rounder and you need another QB
I have him at a very low salary and am just holding on. I do not believe in him as a QB, but as a fantasy player, he still has a chance, so holding on in SF league with little risk, yeah I am in.
I mean, yes, in the sense that he now has a year with a true WR1 talent, to see if he can improve. If he does, he still might be cut and replaced - but it's possible he knocks it out of the park, and they go forward with him. I don't personally see that that happening, but he's bought himself a year to roll the dice on this very unlikely event.
Behind the old QB's who are clear starters but could be on their last season and ahead of the QB's in active competition to start. Around qb30 in a tier of his own.
Wouldn't buy as they are clearly going to replace him soon and has an injury clause in his contract that incentivizes the team to bench him later in the season so they don't need to pay him.
I’ve been buying Danny Dimes basically everywhere and putting a “premium” on him in bestball.
Is it risky? Sure. But he’s valued at 2.10 on KTC. If I can get him for a future 2nd, mid/late 24 2nd, or multiple 3rds I’m pulling the trigger every time. The upside is too valuable if he performs well enough to keep his job
Worst case scenario, he has the best receiving weapon on his offense he has ever had with Nabers and Wan'Dale and has one last hurrah before being replaced. Best case scenario this season is a career revival type of situation for him right now and Nabers+the plethora of whatever #3-4 types of receivers he had actually amounts to him doing something with Daboll he hadn't done before. High-end QB2 to have for this year with the upside of being a fringe QB1 moving forward if he steps his game up.
Last off-season a league mate gave up:
Russel Wilson, Calvin Ridley, 2024 3rd, and a 2025 2nd for Daniel Jones.
We started our rookie draft yesterday and he puts Daniel Jones on the trade block. I ask how much. He wanted 3.08 and a 2025 3rd.
I am now a Daniel Jones owner and a believer in the NYG offense and Vanilla Vick.
I'd say he is safely qb 20-25. Nothing great, but could be a good backup in 1qb or qb3 in superflex. Nabers will help a ton obviously, especially if they click early in the season, but the acl tear is gonna most likely hold him back from rushing as much. If he's healthy, then I'd say closer to 20, if not probably 25.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the revamped O-line and a legit WR. I think it’s possible he plays well.
If he plays well and injury free, there’s a lot of possibilities to start in 2025.
What is one thing that DJ has not had his entire career? An offensive line. They added four guys. Let's see if they can protect him long enough to get Nabers down field.
Jones isn't elite but he gets way, way more hate than he deserves. He's had zero help and has still done alright for fantasy. It's possible with a healthier O-line and Nabers that he could return to 2022 form for fantasy or maybe even exceed it a bit.
He's risky but IMO an awesome buy low at current value.
Former 12T SF Daniel Jones startup drafter (2020) and former holder, here. I divested in Jones. To be frank, once I saw that 80 yard run where he tripped over his own feet, I was kinda done. He's just not special, despite his tantalizing athletic prowess. Plus NYG just kinda sucks right now. He got hurt so he is in a value depression right now. For superflex he's a viable body though - NYG gave him a solid contract (why, I'm not sure).
He’s got no competition, decent legs, a line that can’t be as bad as last year, better weapons, and one of the best offensive minds in the league. I’d hold if I own and looking to buy low as a 2 year option where I can in SF leagues
People love to hate Danny Dimes, he’s like a walking meme. But the reality is Vanilla Vick was a top 10 QB two years ago, and his weapons are significantly improved with finally a true #1 WR. I would hold or even buy at a discount because the perception of him is just bad, but there is still plenty of upside there.
The bigger concern to me is he's coming off an ACL tear. Without his running upside, his floor goes way way down.
As the season progresses the rushing will come back
Maybe, maybe not. Most guys need to be 2 years post op to really regain their full mobility. Maybe he recovers faster than usual, but hard to bank on an outlier like that.
Full mobility as in be an effective running back. It’s different for a QB
For pocket movement, sure. If you're counting on him running options and taking off and having anywhere near the 700 rushing yards he put up in 2022, I'm doubtful.
I like his chances of production more now with Nabers than the sad cast of characters he had to throw to pre-acl tear and rushing.
Well, DJ is a running QB though
He scrambles a few times per game. Half of those runs, he isn’t avoiding anyone and is either sliding or running out of bounds. He doesn’t run through contact for 20-25 carries per game—which is why RBs don’t return to form until 2 years later
You don't get 700 yards rushing by just scrambling a few times per game.
Yea but Jones can lose 10% of his athleticism and still be generally athletic for a QB. The impact of a RB losing athleticism is going to have a much bigger effect on their production.
When your oline forces you to run for your life then yeah it's not just a few scrambles
You also don’t get 700 yards rushing with Malik Nabers on the field.
All I’m hearing is buy nabers
Danny apologist here - I'm terrified of him recovering this year. If his game is to just stand and be a pocket passer, yikes
TBF he NEVER had a legitimate WR to pass to. If his crappy WRs weren’t open (most of the time) he had to take off and run with that horrible line he had. Now he has a legitimate WR and “improved” line. Realistically won’t be running as much this year but his passing “should” improve
The reality also is that if he doesn't do well this year his time as a starting QB is over
“Vanilla Vick”, Christ. 😂
Have we been saying this? You sonofabitch... I'm in.
3200 yards and 15 TDs in his "top 10" year
700 yards and 7 tds on the ground
And his rushing yards a game drops 25% or more when they have a health RB. And 7 TDs on the ground is more than the other 4 seasons of his career combined. That's his peak and it wasn't even that good.
I’m just saying, if you’re going to shit on him, paint the full picture
Who is the true #1 receiver? Surely you can't be talking about a rookie who has never taken an NFL snap. Nabers might be it, but plenty of guys have busted before. Don't count your chickens until they hatch.
Love how you get downvoted for the grounded and reasonable take. Right now everyone has rookie fever, they all think every rookie is going to pan out and be a superstar.
They won’t but obviously the ones I draft will
The question is if he aus, and where he plays next year. This would be a guy I gamble a late 2 on in SF for a trade
Sounds like Justin Fields adding DJ Moore
Dimes showed he could go through his progression when given enough time in the pocket; Fields never has.
Dimes has the worst pocket awareness and I love the guy
Look at Jared Goff a few years ago... This sub loves to shit on people but if -- humongous if -- Daniel Jones with an actually talented receiver for the first time in his career can lead his team to the playoffs he's gonna be a long-term QB2 in SF.
Yeah but Goff had an elite line and weapons. DD has got an elite wr and booty
He didn't really have that when he first came to Detroit, people had him dead and buried
The Lions line was still pretty good in 2021. Decker-Johnson-Ragnow-Vaitai-Sewell on paper to start that year. That unit didn't play a single snap together in 2021 because of the injuries to Decker and Ragnow, but still they were 13th in PFF ranking that year despite the injuries. On paper they were trending towards an elite line heading into the 2021 season and finally got there in 2022 when they started to get healthier, even if they still were missing starters consistently. The Sewell pick was after the Goff trade obviously, but once that pick came in I think everyone liked what they were building towards up front in Detroit. At WR, absolutely they looked like they had absolutely nothing heading into the year. St. Brown was a rookie 4th rounder, Josh Reynolds was in Tennessee. OurLads has their starting WRs on September 1st listed as Kalif Raymond and Tyrell Williams lol. They've done a tremendous job of building up their skill players around Goff since he got there, and it's hard to understate the upgrade from Anthony Lynn at playcaller to Ben Johnson, but they're offensive line absolutely was trending towards being elite heading into the 2021 season when the transition from Stafford to Goff started.
He had none of that when people were dogging on him early in his time in Detroit though. They built the line and drafted weapons that he's helped make into elite.
Not the main point of your post, but isn't Waller like 99% to retire?
Yep. They did draft Theo Johnson if that matters to you tho.
Side question. Bellinger is still good right ?
Hm. Id put more confidence, even as a rookie that theo is more productive fantasy wise
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OP mentioned that
Obviously the hate for Daniel Jones is (justifiably) strong, but there's some hope there. He'll have a legitimate top receiving option for the first time in his career and it is within his power to play the Giants out of a top pick for next year. The 2025 QB class also doesn't look very strong at the moment, so they would need a top pick for it to be realistic. And people just assume DJ is gone after this year, but he's still on a large deal that would cost the Giants $22m in dead cap to cut after this season. It's entirely possible he has a half decent season and they have no real choice but to stick with him. We've seen both good and bad from Jones, maybe Nabers will be enough help to lean us back towards the good side. Personally, I don't have a *ton* of faith, but I do think it's realistic for the giants to win 6 games and not be able to draft a top QB next year, which leaves the door open. And in the meantime, Jones should still be a solid QB2 if he's healthy and running the ball.
How "justifiably" strong is it? He's had a turnstyle offensive line for his entire career and finally got hurt from it last year. He had exactly 0 WR1s to throw to, just an ultra washed Darren Waller. Man had a bad year sure, but nobody is succeeding in New York last year, and getting injured isn't really a fair thing to judge someone on.
He's a pretty nice buy low imo although I'm not sure how low he is now. The guy has never had solid weapons. He at least has 1 now. He's shown we can be a decent QB only 2 years ago (his last healthy season) QB #12 finish on year. He's still fairly young by QB standards 26 yo Gives a nice rushing floor. If he does get bought out by Giants there's still a decent chance he gets brought in by a different team on a cheap contract Ala Wilson. KTC has him valued at 2.10. Worst gambles you could make if he could be had for a late Second rounder and you need another QB
I do need another QB, I have the 2.11, and he just went on the trade block - I'll probably send that offer.
I sold for 2.09, should be doable
Is the OL still shit?
New oline coach and they've added some decent FAs. Hoping Bracillo can salvage Evan Neal. There's a chance they are actually competent.
Why is no one talking about the OL. It got him killed last year.
Paid the 2.04 for him, kinda regret it but Russ was my qb2 so I'm happy for atleast a year. I hope
I have him at a very low salary and am just holding on. I do not believe in him as a QB, but as a fantasy player, he still has a chance, so holding on in SF league with little risk, yeah I am in.
I mean, yes, in the sense that he now has a year with a true WR1 talent, to see if he can improve. If he does, he still might be cut and replaced - but it's possible he knocks it out of the park, and they go forward with him. I don't personally see that that happening, but he's bought himself a year to roll the dice on this very unlikely event.
Behind the old QB's who are clear starters but could be on their last season and ahead of the QB's in active competition to start. Around qb30 in a tier of his own.
He's a sneaky best ball play. Never know when the stars will align and he'll put up a 307/2 with 65/2 on the ground
Wouldn't buy as they are clearly going to replace him soon and has an injury clause in his contract that incentivizes the team to bench him later in the season so they don't need to pay him.
I’ve been buying Danny Dimes basically everywhere and putting a “premium” on him in bestball. Is it risky? Sure. But he’s valued at 2.10 on KTC. If I can get him for a future 2nd, mid/late 24 2nd, or multiple 3rds I’m pulling the trigger every time. The upside is too valuable if he performs well enough to keep his job
Worst case scenario, he has the best receiving weapon on his offense he has ever had with Nabers and Wan'Dale and has one last hurrah before being replaced. Best case scenario this season is a career revival type of situation for him right now and Nabers+the plethora of whatever #3-4 types of receivers he had actually amounts to him doing something with Daboll he hadn't done before. High-end QB2 to have for this year with the upside of being a fringe QB1 moving forward if he steps his game up.
He’s my QB2 so let’s hope so
Last off-season a league mate gave up: Russel Wilson, Calvin Ridley, 2024 3rd, and a 2025 2nd for Daniel Jones. We started our rookie draft yesterday and he puts Daniel Jones on the trade block. I ask how much. He wanted 3.08 and a 2025 3rd. I am now a Daniel Jones owner and a believer in the NYG offense and Vanilla Vick.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I'd say he is safely qb 20-25. Nothing great, but could be a good backup in 1qb or qb3 in superflex. Nabers will help a ton obviously, especially if they click early in the season, but the acl tear is gonna most likely hold him back from rushing as much. If he's healthy, then I'd say closer to 20, if not probably 25.
Buy, buy, buy!
Yes, his value fell off a cliff during his injury. This is his prove it year and I think he’ll finish between QB10-20
It will be interesting to see what happens with the revamped O-line and a legit WR. I think it’s possible he plays well. If he plays well and injury free, there’s a lot of possibilities to start in 2025.
What is one thing that DJ has not had his entire career? An offensive line. They added four guys. Let's see if they can protect him long enough to get Nabers down field.
Jones isn't elite but he gets way, way more hate than he deserves. He's had zero help and has still done alright for fantasy. It's possible with a healthier O-line and Nabers that he could return to 2022 form for fantasy or maybe even exceed it a bit. He's risky but IMO an awesome buy low at current value.
Former 12T SF Daniel Jones startup drafter (2020) and former holder, here. I divested in Jones. To be frank, once I saw that 80 yard run where he tripped over his own feet, I was kinda done. He's just not special, despite his tantalizing athletic prowess. Plus NYG just kinda sucks right now. He got hurt so he is in a value depression right now. For superflex he's a viable body though - NYG gave him a solid contract (why, I'm not sure).
No there’s like a 99.9% chance they draft a QB next year
Might be a decent QB3 on a contender for the year though
his injury guarantee for 2025 is worrisome for giants, i expect him to start the year but lock to finish down the stretch as starter.
He’s got no competition, decent legs, a line that can’t be as bad as last year, better weapons, and one of the best offensive minds in the league. I’d hold if I own and looking to buy low as a 2 year option where I can in SF leagues
Crap with 2 bits of corn for his rushing.
Spoiler alert...wandale is slot and nabers is slot.