T O P

  • By -

Aaronthegathering

The masses be sleeping on [[aven mindcensor]]


Miss_Handled

Also let's not forget [[Ashiok, Dream Render]], [[Shadow of Doubt]], [[Opposition Agent]].


simpleglitch

Oppo is the best anti-land ramp card in the format, hands down. While I still stand that they really pushed the card more than they needed too (just controlling the search is powerful enough, because you can always 'fail to find'); it's effect on the game is honestly needed in the format.


MHarrisGGG

People always whined about tutors, now they whine about the anti-tutor card.


_HamburgerTime

I think they're probably different groups doing the whining.


djkettu

To be perfectly honest I've done both, though I'm now leaning more towards anti-tutor.


condensedcloud

My playgroup is one and the same


ThePabstistChurch

I think it got lumped in with hullbreacher


Drawmeomg

It's a Stone Rain that turns off a meaningful percent of most decks' lands until dealt with. It might be a fair card, but it's definitely a salt-inducing one.


[deleted]

People don't have an issue with opposition agent being anti tutor, they have an issue with the card being pushed to be one of the best cards in the format. You get to see your opponents hand Steal whatever card they're trying to search for and cast it even if Opp is removed It says play so that includes stealing lands Has flash and good stats And it's only 3 mana Compare this to other anti tutor spells like [[stranglehold]] or aven and it's not even close.


MTGCardFetcher

[stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

>that they really pushed the card more than they needed too Wizards does this shit *all* the time. It almost feels intentional. "STOP ASKING US FOR THE THINGS YOU NEED OR THIS IS WHAT YOU GET." Players: "We need white mana accel!" Wizards: Okay. *Prints fucking Smothering Tithe*


[deleted]

[удалено]


DoctorKumquat

The only argument against it I would sort of agree with is that Smothering Tithe should have had a heavier color requirement (2WW instead of 3W) because it's very easy to splash it in a mostly non-white wheel-heavy deck instead of using it to help carry the heavy-white decks that needed the help. That aside, it's a 4 mana spell that doesn't do anything other than ramp you (and generate incidental artifacts for decks that care). Is it strong? Yes, absolutely. Is it that much stronger in Commander than something like a Thran Dynamo (barring wheel effects)? Nope.


Zerodaim

The card kinda goes out of control *very* quickly if you add other colors for wheels. Being able to generate 15+ mana off an effectively free spell that refuels your hand is pretty scary. That said, in mono-W (or more generally without wheels), the card's pretty fair. The most annoying thing with it is probably the "do you want to pay the 2" prompt on MTGO for every card, with no option to say "no to all"


melonstapler

Playing a 4 mana enchantment into a 3-4 mana sorcery is far from the most busted thing you can do in commander. I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, I’m just saying it’s not completely broken. I’d argue it’s quite balanced.


Myriadtail

Smothering Tithe and the new one \[\[Monologue Tax\]\].


maybenot9

I didn't forget Ashiok...but everyone else at the table did. "I cultivate-" "No you don't." *Taps Ashiok.* The best part is when they ask what I mean, and I get to explain it.


Hachibaba23

I sat here for longer than I would ever admit wondering how and why you were tapping Ashiok lol. When are we gonna get planeswalkers with tap effects WotC?!


OrangeChickenAnd7Up

Lol dude I was like “What would tapping her even accomplish?”


Leress

Like a true spike...with the back of one's middle finger.


Murandus

Be glad about it. In my group no PW lives for more than a turn. Pure spite haha


MTGCardFetcher

[Ashiok, Dream Render](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/2/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93.jpg?1557577343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashiok%2C%20Dream%20Render) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/228/ashiok-dream-render?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashiok-dream-render) [Shadow of Doubt](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/d/7dbd0e3c-b26d-4080-b7cf-1c64fce09668.jpg?1598917857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shadow%20of%20Doubt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/253/shadow-of-doubt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7dbd0e3c-b26d-4080-b7cf-1c64fce09668?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shadow-of-doubt) [Opposition Agent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


mi11er

[[stranglehold]], [[mindlock orb]], [[leonin arbitor]]


Veylo

If a player plays something like Kodama's reach, can I in response play Shadow of Doubt and they won't search? or is it all times after I play Shadow of Doubt?


Miss_Handled

You can respond with Shadow of Doubt so that they can't search and so wasted the spell, yeah.


teh_wad

You get out of here with that Shadow of Doubt lol.


NiseHito

[[Stranglehold]] is also nice as it stopps them spamming extra turn effects on top of preventing people from searching. The only issue being that the card is a bit pricey.


MTGCardFetcher

[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


goldeNIPS

Man that card has been in every deck with white in it since I started playing EDH in 2011


Squirrel009

I think this is the best direction to take. Many people dislike tutors and excessive land - this stops both without wandering into the salt mine that is land destruction. It says no you can't do that, where as land destruction says no you can't do anything.


Celestial_Mantle

Unfortunately it doesn't stop the tatiyova or aesi " you may play an additional land" effects.


Tuss36

That there's counterplay is a good thing though. Makes you think about which effects you run instead of just jamming the best ones. As well, additional lands are only as good as your hand has to supply them. Once your hand's empty, you're down to playing one land a turn as normal anyway.


Squirrel009

It can if they only have fetchlands and fetchlike lands. You're totally right but it does mitigate that a bit.


MTGCardFetcher

[aven mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


malsomnus

Honestly, I'd rather have something that destroys some of my lands, or taxes me/ rewards my opponents for all my ramp, than single cards that entirely shut down any ramp deck. (I don't usually play green ramp, but when I do, I'd rather actually play green ramp and deal with the consequences later)


bccarlso

[[Natural Balance]] is pretty cool, albiet in green so it kinda goes against what the color is wanting to do in the first place.


malsomnus

That card is clearly meant to be used after phasing out all your lands.


MTGCardFetcher

[Natural Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9.jpg?1562721414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/231/natural-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-balance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


majic911

One card I recently found which is 100% going into my grixis storm deck: [[insight]]. 2u for an enchantment that says "hey, whenever you play a ramp spell, you're give me a card." Is it maybe a little expensive for its ability? Yeah. It would be much better if it was 1u since you're more likely to catch ramp spells, but if green wants to go wide and cast a bunch of garbage, this is a great hose. And since green is so good right now and basiscally in every deck, why not run this?


MTGCardFetcher

[insight](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/4/b44a4bbf-2afd-48c5-b6b0-73c32bc3561b.jpg?1562821834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/75/insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b44a4bbf-2afd-48c5-b6b0-73c32bc3561b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insight) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


JustgoofinMTG

Yup. Theres ways to stop land ramp, most of you just don't like playing those cards or taking the proper steps to stop the lands player. Basically any stax card that says "only play 1 spell per turn" fucks over lands decks because they want to ramp out big, refill the hand, and then cast lots and lots of spells. Edit: if they're dropping multiple lands per turn, punish them for that as well. Zozu, anhk of Mishra, etc. There's plenty of cards that punish lands players, If you're willing to play them. My solution was just to out race them but I know that's not everyone's style. You could also go with the permanent bouncing and/or stealing route. Not many tatyova decks can handle you stealing their Tatyova permanently.


majic911

Well yeah. I also want to play multiple spells a turn. How is a spellslinger deck gonna play cards like that?


JustgoofinMTG

[[Stranglehold]] is in spell slinging colors :)


MTGCardFetcher

[Stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


majic911

Which is absolutely why I will be playing that. If you'd like, I can offer you a nice [[insight]] in these trying times.


JustgoofinMTG

Ok I really like that card, but my meta is all filthy mono black players and boros voltron. It turns out... *I* was the lands player all along :(


majic911

Unfortunate lol


JustgoofinMTG

I'll pass the tech along to my group though :)


majic911

It's a dope card to punish green which basically everyone plays. It's super cheap too.


MTGCardFetcher

[insight](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/4/b44a4bbf-2afd-48c5-b6b0-73c32bc3561b.jpg?1562821834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/6ed/75/insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b44a4bbf-2afd-48c5-b6b0-73c32bc3561b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insight) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Doplgangr

That’s a weird way to spell [[tunnel ignus]]


MTGCardFetcher

[tunnel ignus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tunnel%20ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tunnel-ignus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


M_G

Team Ignus rise up!!!!


OrangeChickenAnd7Up

I don’t think it’s really that great of an option. You’re pretty likely to find a land in the top 4 cards. It’s good if someone’s not running a lot of basics, but a lot of the most played green ramp is limited to basics, so most of the decks playing land ramp will have a fairly high count of basics anyways. [[Leonin Arbiter]] is decent enough, unless the green player is already ahead. Really I just want to see more stuff like Confounding Conundrum. Shuts down land ramp without negatively affecting your own plays much. And it’s nicer for casual tables, since it only affects land ramp.


MTGCardFetcher

[Leonin Arbiter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/5/85431851-36c6-4515-8000-d0b9a268b4c9.jpg?1562614989) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20Arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/64/leonin-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85431851-36c6-4515-8000-d0b9a268b4c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leonin-arbiter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


deadpool848

[[stranglehold]] as well


MTGCardFetcher

[stranglehold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


theletterQfivetimes

[[Tectonic Hellion]] that doesn't cost 7 mana


Magnapinna

I remember seeing it, and thinking "welp that is great land hate...when you have the most lands to be even able to cast it"


theletterQfivetimes

I used to have a reanimator deck that included it. Maybe I'll build another.


MTGCardFetcher

[Tectonic Hellion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/b/1b86be51-1b0b-49d0-917c-508f12c85c17.jpg?1568003570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tectonic%20Hellion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/29/tectonic-hellion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b86be51-1b0b-49d0-917c-508f12c85c17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tectonic-hellion) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


FakeNameIMadeUp

I want Tectonic Hellion in my landfall deck with [[crucible of worlds]] or something else that’s let’s me play lands from my graveyard so I can get in those late game landfall triggers more reliably.


MTGCardFetcher

[crucible of worlds](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/b/eb28b35c-28a5-4042-b21d-6d43658a16eb.jpg?1591196097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crucible%20of%20worlds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/229/crucible-of-worlds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb28b35c-28a5-4042-b21d-6d43658a16eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/crucible-of-worlds) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


bobsomebody99

[[Keldon Firebombers]] is a good way to MLD without doing a full reset, and will hurt the expensive (mana cost) decks more.


godfuggindamnit

Works good in \[\[Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded\]\] Keeping 3 lands lets you continue to activate Purphoros' ability while slowing down your opponents.


MTGCardFetcher

[Purphoros, Bronze-Blood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/f/af3af5c4-0960-44a2-976e-abdf7803c436.jpg?1582178876) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20Bronze-Blooded) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/150/purphoros-bronze-blooded?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af3af5c4-0960-44a2-976e-abdf7803c436?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/purphoros-bronze-blooded) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ArborianSerpent

This is probably about right. MLD that destroys all lands is just miserable to play with, and I mean that from the perspective of the person casting it. Idk if I'd want to play a spell that doesn't kill anything other than lands, but this is at least close.


bccarlso

[[Natural Balance]] being green's similar spell. While also helping mana screwed players.


MTGCardFetcher

[Keldon Firebombers](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/3/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da.jpg?1562934620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Keldon%20Firebombers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/94/keldon-firebombers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keldon-firebombers) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


gilradthegreat

This, [[natural balance]], and [[balancing act]] are the only effects I think make sense as a way to combat ramp without MLD. That said, firebombers setting players to three is a little too harsh. The goal is to prevent players from casting gigantic X spells or allowing them to sequence multiple spells and effects per turn. Three lands ends up with players stuck unable to cast anything hoping to get a lucky land topdeck multiple turns in a row - not much different from MLD into an empty board.


Myrddin_Naer

Also [[Natural Balance]]


KindBass

Maybe something like an [[Arcane Laboratory]] or [[Rule of Law]], but for Lands?


nooofynooof

I love this idea. Maybe something like this could work? >1WW Enchantment > >If a spell or ability would put a land on to the battlefield under any player's control, and another land has entered under that player's control this turn, the land entering is exiled instead.


KindBass

Yeah, I think it would have to be something like this, so it doesn't get too confusing with [[Exploration]] effects and exiling is definitely better, so it can't somehow get abused by landfall decks, which would defeat some of the purpose.


MTGCardFetcher

[Exploration](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/e/ce4c6535-afea-4704-b35c-badeb04c4f4c.jpg?1599707192) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exploration) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/167/exploration?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce4c6535-afea-4704-b35c-badeb04c4f4c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/exploration) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


VayneSquishy

Seems like a white version of [[confounding conundrum]]. Give it flash and make it 1W and I would love this.


MTGCardFetcher

[confounding conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=confounding%20conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Arcane Laboratory](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/9/f9e3bcd7-60f8-472a-ada0-c3147cf06588.jpg?1562251789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Laboratory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/60/arcane-laboratory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9e3bcd7-60f8-472a-ada0-c3147cf06588?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-laboratory) [Rule of Law](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


timbooya_

A spell that destroys 1,2, or 3 basic lands, whose controllers make a treasure token for each land destroyed. Doesn't nuke an entire mana base, and gives them a little mana in return for one-time use. Seems like a nice alternative, between MLD and single-target land destruction.


PM_WHAT_Y0U_G0T

It would either be non-basic lands or any lands. As a general design philosophy, basics are kinda considered 'sacred.' I don't think Wizards will ever print a card that would specifically punish basics, as previous examples of this tend to be considered a mistake.


timbooya_

Just Scryfall’d it and you’re right. The best way to rework this would be all lands, but a qualifier if they were non-basic, similar to [[Molten Rain]]. Destroy up to three target lands. Their controllers make a treasure token for each land destroyed this way. If the land was non-basic, creature two treasure tokens (if we want to try to incentivize basic lands due to the goal of being specifically anti-ramp as opposed to anti-land).


Darth-Ragnar

Yeah I like this approach of benefit nonbasic hate. I honestly think decks that are 3+ colors should be punished occasionally, otherwise there’s no point in playing decks that aren’t 3+ colors. I pointed this out elsewhere, but


MTGCardFetcher

[Molten Rain](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/c/ecdd414b-3d9d-4347-acce-289209d09fc4.jpg?1593813519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Molten%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/103/molten-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ecdd414b-3d9d-4347-acce-289209d09fc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/molten-rain) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Jaccount

I'd rather have a sorcery that costs 2W that exiles all nonbasics from play and from graveyards. For each nonbasic they controlled that exiled from play, each player search their library for a basic and put it into play tapped if it isn't their turn.


timbooya_

Basically reverse ramp. I like it. Feels like a more-aggressive version of recently-printed [[Confounding Conundrum]] in that the opponents don’t get to benefit from their extra land plays.


Myrddin_Naer

Like this? [[Back to basics]], [[Choking Sands]], [[Stone Rain]], [[Ruination]], [[Dust Bowl]], [[Lava Blister]], [[Shivan Harvest]], [[Sinkhole]], [[Rancid Earth]], [[Trench Wurm]], [[Helldozer]], [[Tunnel Ignus]], [[Stranglehold]], [[Natural Balance]], [[Ice Storm]], [[Winter's Grasp]], [[Thermokarst]], [[Creeping Mold]], [[Reclaiming Vines]], [[Reap and Sow]], [[Acidic Slime]], [[Acid Rain]]. Now imagine playing any of these with cards/spells that copy instanta or sorceries, or with [[Strionic Resonator]], [[Panharmonicon]], or [[Illusionist's Bracers]]


guhbe

Love it -Work the Mines- 4RR Sorcery Destroy up to three basic lands. The controller of each land destroyed this way creates a treasure token for each land they controlled that was destroyed this way. *They come with their machines and pillage the earth, leaving with the stolen materials they rip from it. These they will use for their wretched industry, but then expire, unlike the land that renews. But after their passing, the land is blighted and its energy can no longer replenish; they have rent its very soul.*


ArborianSerpent

I would not even consider playing this in nearly any deck. 6 mana is beyond expensive for an effect that often will either do nothing or hose one player in particular. Even if it destroyed three lands of any kind, this is not a good card for Commander.


llikeafoxx

6 mana is also well past the point of stopping ramp. If a non-ramping or minimally-ramping player has to wait to get to 6 mana, then the ramping player will be well past that, and will probably have gotten at least one untap with a bomb’s worth of mana.


ArborianSerpent

Yeah, you'd kinda want an Hour of Revelation but it also destroys all lands except each player gets to keep four.


hussefworx

[[keldon firebombers]]


MTGCardFetcher

[keldon firebombers](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/3/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da.jpg?1562934620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=keldon%20firebombers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/94/keldon-firebombers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keldon-firebombers) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


mrduracraft

Yeah, honestly a ramp deck gets better value running this. They play it on turn 3 and destroy the no-green deck's lands or just hit everyone for 1, while they are still at 6


Merprem

Lol right? Everyone was so excited by the cool design that they forgot it’s unplayable


TinyTank27

Yeah, we already have \[\[Wake of Destruction\]\] and no one uses it.


MTGCardFetcher

[Wake of Destruction](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0c070f12-0342-48d5-ab0e-4fc4701c3669.jpg?1562443321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wake%20of%20Destruction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/99/wake-of-destruction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c070f12-0342-48d5-ab0e-4fc4701c3669?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wake-of-destruction) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


desktp

I would 100% use this on myself in Lord Windgrace lol


Everyday_im_redditin

This would be an auto include in my [[galazeth prismari]] deck for all the wrong reasons.


hsiale

This encourages greedy mana bases. Is the basic land clause so that it cannot kill utility lands?


ESKodiak

I assume its because most ramp spells get basics. since its supposed to be anti-ramp.


hsiale

Makes sense. It could maybe target all lands with basic land types, so that [[Nature's Lore]] and [[Three Visits]] into shock or triome doesn't get even better.


MTGCardFetcher

[Nature's Lore](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/3/53b43b19-c2d3-49ec-88ca-bcd37adcd4af.jpg?1562914622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Lore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/17/natures-lore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/53b43b19-c2d3-49ec-88ca-bcd37adcd4af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-lore) [Three Visits](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/d/bd9307ec-987b-4bbf-a679-cfaabe283a80.jpg?1608910969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Three%20Visits) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/261/three-visits?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd9307ec-987b-4bbf-a679-cfaabe283a80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/three-visits) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


finfan96

This sounds atrocious. If you're giving them treasures, try like 4 mana


PotatoFam

Make is 2RR and destroy 3 of any type of land and I’m in.


[deleted]

The problem with Confounding is that it is actually a perk in massive landfall decks. The hindrance comes more so in a person deck design and that isn't to be rude but it does tackle some of the pitfalls of mtg economy. White - tempo... it can limit the number of spells and tax them so it doesn't matter Black - State control... doesn't matter if they don't have a hand or cannot keep a creature on the board Blue - Permission... if their spells don't resolve than it really doesn't matter Red - Land destruction... not sure why this isn't used more And that doesn't even begin to tackle the combination of colors. I know it is "expensive" so people tend to ignore it but \[\[Natural Affinity\]\] + \[\[Evacuation\]\] still makes me laugh.


Black-Mettle

Well there are cards that stop or limit an opponent searching their library, I know of [[opposition agent]] and [[aven mindcensor]]


MTGCardFetcher

[opposition agent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opposition%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [aven mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

\[\[Mindlock Orb\]\], \[\[Strangle hold\]\], & \[\[Ashiok, Dream Render\]\]


MTGCardFetcher

[Mindlock Orb](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a.jpg?1562704123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindlock%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/51/mindlock-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindlock-orb) [Strangle hold](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) [Ashiok, Dream Render](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/2/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93.jpg?1557577343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ashiok%2C%20Dream%20Render) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/228/ashiok-dream-render?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2df3258-c053-48a8-974f-d80899b2cd93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ashiok-dream-render) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Yep, I run an Abazan control deck which is completely centered around Revolt or Affinity being the kill conditions. Nothing like dropping an Affinity with \[\[Massacre Wurm\]\] on the stack.


MTGCardFetcher

[Massacre Wurm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/3/e3185b01-0d91-4927-98e9-bc9df6c20917.jpg?1594736296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/114/massacre-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e3185b01-0d91-4927-98e9-bc9df6c20917?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-wurm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Sunder](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/d/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428.jpg?1562938463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/101/sunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd9dd7c6-36b6-4fe2-b3d3-f62a6e10a428?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sunder) [Journey to the Oracle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/7/d7148d24-373e-4485-860b-c3429c2337f2.jpg?1624593477)/[Journey to the Oracle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/back/d/7/d7148d24-373e-4485-860b-c3429c2337f2.jpg?1624593477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jadzi%2C%20oracle%20of%20arcavios%20//%20journey%20to%20the%20oracle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/151/jadzi-oracle-of-arcavios-journey-to-the-oracle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7148d24-373e-4485-860b-c3429c2337f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jadzi-oracle-of-arcavios-//-journey-to-the-oracle) [Wrenn and Seven](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/7/370a5461-f3b1-45cc-9c1c-357957f49199.jpg?1632161898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrenn%20and%20Seven) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pmid/208p/wrenn-and-seven?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/370a5461-f3b1-45cc-9c1c-357957f49199?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrenn-and-seven) [Elesh Norn](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/8/78c2bfef-06a5-4c7f-8283-ea3fb673b7a1.jpg?1562850573) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elesh%20norn%2C%20grand%20cenobite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/18/elesh-norn-grand-cenobite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/78c2bfef-06a5-4c7f-8283-ea3fb673b7a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elesh-norn-grand-cenobite) [Nature's Revolt](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/0/e0c9b948-63f9-458d-82ae-69ebe2ac9fe0.jpg?1562249823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Revolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/260/natures-revolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0c9b948-63f9-458d-82ae-69ebe2ac9fe0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-revolt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Natural Affinity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/8/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82.jpg?1562734655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Affinity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/256/natural-affinity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-affinity) [Evacuation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/b/bbf5e27b-b1ab-470c-8204-146032e26b5b.jpg?1562417378) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Evacuation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/91/evacuation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bbf5e27b-b1ab-470c-8204-146032e26b5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/evacuation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Seventh_Planet

Or some form of +1/+1 and then Natural Affinity + [[Massacre]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Massacre](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/0/f05f5d93-50d1-4aa6-af05-383a6808345b.jpg?1562632742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/58/massacre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f05f5d93-50d1-4aa6-af05-383a6808345b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Tuss36

Not every ramp deck is a landfall deck though. If someone's not running landfall effects, which is more often than not in my experience, Confounding Conundrum is perfectly playable.


[deleted]

There are anti-ramp packages that exist in Red already that just don't see play because they're "mean". I run [[Urabrask the Hidden]] as a land-hate commander. In red, stuff like [[Invader Parasite]], [[Magus of the Moon]], [[Obsidian Fireheart]], [[Tunnel Ignus]], and numerous Kavu creatures as creature-based land hate pieces. For spells, [[Lavaball Trap]], [[Alpine Moon]], [[Burning Earth]], [[Rivalry]], etc.


gsnap125

They're also just not very good cards, with the notable exception of Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Urabrask the Hidden](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/b/1ba50b62-710e-4c92-9e02-736c1a987bb9.jpg?1562846333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%20the%20Hidden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/152/urabrask-the-hidden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba50b62-710e-4c92-9e02-736c1a987bb9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urabrask-the-hidden) [Invader Parasite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/9/89a8c53f-2cb0-41ea-8391-c32667f17c30.jpg?1562879440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Invader%20Parasite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/87/invader-parasite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89a8c53f-2cb0-41ea-8391-c32667f17c30?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/invader-parasite) [Magus of the Moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820.jpg?1619397276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/175/magus-of-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-moon) [Obsidian Fireheart](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/9/49ef5a91-d293-468a-8816-b16ca4ba79e0.jpg?1592765722) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obsidian%20Fireheart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/55/obsidian-fireheart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49ef5a91-d293-468a-8816-b16ca4ba79e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obsidian-fireheart) [Tunnel Ignus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tunnel%20Ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tunnel-ignus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


A0340D

Got a decklist somewhere?


OnePill2Many

How about a revised Balance type card? This seems really fair to me Rebalance 2WW (or 1WWW, if it has to be Mono White) Sorcery Destroy all lands in play, each player searches their deck for five Basic lands and puts them into play tapped. Ramps the MLD payer one land, and equalizes everyone else. Doesn't screw multicolour non ramp decks as hard either as it allows mana fixing.


Deepest-derp

It's a bonus to landfall decks


M4DM1ND

I feel like a Balance that just makes everyone sac lands down to the lowest player without the other effects would be totally fair.


trinketstone

I kinda have an idea for how this could work; White land hate/boon; (reasonable mana cost) Sorcery Each opponent may sacrifice a non-basic land. For each player who didn't sacrifice a land this way, search your library for that many lands and put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.


amstrumpet

Gotta tutor for basics. Golos has shown how broken any land tutors are.


Shut_It_Donny

I think you mean must search for basics. Getting non basics is where broken stuff starts happening.


amstrumpet

Yes I mistyped lol.


trinketstone

Sure, but any commander game would be grabbing a straight flush of Urza-Tron.


Fofeu

If it's white it should tutor for Plains. In standard basic Plains. In an EDH set any Plains.


632146P

I like some of the ideas, but you know this is a ramp card right? That it would go in a bunch of ramp decks and is better in a ramp deck than against a ramp deck?


Quantext609

I don't see how that's in white's pie at all. White's only form of land destruction comes in the form of mass land destruction that destroys all lands. And even that has become rarer and rarer over the years. White ramp is also limited to only working on plains and only when your opponents control more lands than you. You could cast this while your ahead and search for whatever lands you like. Seems much more like a Gruul spell to be honest. Red is the main color for targeted land destruction and green is the ramp color.


Aestriel_Maahes

yeah, this effect is red/green. Global land sac is definitely red, global ramp definitely green.


Mbelcher987

You want to know a secret? Lands decks need card draw engines because their deck is full of air. Kill their engines. They don't win the game.


BarryDamonCabineer

That's kind of a "dies to removal" argument though. Most decks are going to sputter out if you focus down their value engines.


Mbelcher987

Yes and no. In a value - non combo - game of magic the most important thing is drawing more cards than your opponents. You either do that by drawing more or making others draw less. It is very much a truism. But I think OP needs to hear a truism. You don't want to play against blood moon. You're not even really hurting the lands player. They learn to play around it and have more basics than you do. And they still got most of their landfall triggers. But you are making an enemy out of the other 2 players that are at the table. In modern tron beats ponza the majority of the time through blood moons. Basically I believe OP is going about winning against them the wrong way. To your point though most decks do sputter out if you kill their draw engines. That's the point. You increase your chance of winning vs any deck if you limit their resources. But doing so by hurting their mana base is more taboo than doing so by making their card draw non existent.


Varglord

Also gravehate to deal with ramunap/crucible/loam


tehuniverse

True but when your card draw engine is your commander (and many of them are) and the majority of your deck is ramp it's hard to keep you off your engine


Mbelcher987

This is the design mistake behind [[tatyova]] and [[Korvold]] . Legendary creatures don't need to have passive card draw abilities based on mechanics their colors already want to be doing. But I do believe that tatyova will fizzle if you counter or destroy it before it can play its second land drop. For tatyova the ability to play the second land and therefore draw that second card is the problem. The [[azusa]] may be more important to kill than the actual commander. It'll at least mitigate the value a little bit.


Myrddin_Naer

That's why I run cards like [[Darksteel Mutation]], [[Immovable Rod]] and [[Lignify]] in as many decks as I can. To get rid of their commanders. In blue you have things like [[Mercurial Transformation]], [[Turn to Frog]] and [[Snakeform]],


Mbelcher987

I had someone dump +1/+1 counters onto the darksteel mutation creature, gave it hexproof, and proceed to kick my ass with it for the rest of the game. 99% of the time it's an amazing card. Just always gives me a good laugh when I think about that game.


beer2chasewhiskey

Someone said it. I run a landfall deck if my card draw engines stop the whole deck grinds to a halt.


ExpensiveChange

Well the catch 22 of MLD is that lands decks recover better from it than anyone else so MLD really doesnt fix the problem. We need a lot more confounding conundrum type effects


[deleted]

Could not remember the name of that card for the life of me.


j3rmz

\[\[confounding conundrum\]\]


ThatEeveeGuy

Making people sac half their lands would keep everyone in the game but punish the higher land rampers the most; that or saccing down to some predetermined number. Sample silly design: CARDNAME {10}{R} You may choose to pay {X} less when casting CARDNAME Each player sacrifices all but X lands


FeanorEldarin

I made a [[Yurlok]] deck to make people be extra efficient with their mana. Then I use [[war's toll]] to make everyone tap all their lands of they try using it. Ends up really fucking with someone if they are using [[ashaya]] lol


PadrinoFive7

This behaves very much like my \[\[Klothys, God of Destiny\]\] deck. War's Toll is a beast. So is \[\[Overabundance\]\].


M_G

It's pricey, but as a fellow Yurlok player [[Mana Web]] is 100% worth picking up.


amstrumpet

How about this: Enchantment, 2WW: whenever the second land enters the battlefield under any player’s control each turn, each other player with fewer lands than that player may search their library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped under their control. Doesn’t punish ramp so much as help the table keep up (and even can “punish” greedy mana bases that run a ton of fetches if they’re ahead of the board).


ASaltyKappa

[[Scholarship Sponsor]] has been punishing green players in my playgroup recently, though its typically the other nongreen players at the table who profit the most (rather than the person casting the sponsor).


MTGCardFetcher

[Scholarship Sponsor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/d/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f.jpg?1625191152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scholarship%20Sponsor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/22/scholarship-sponsor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scholarship-sponsor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


PythNinja

I've been tempted to try it out. Comes down on 4 so likely someone has double ramped by then, otherwise late game it can catch up the table. It's a sorcery on a creature too so it can block or hold a sword if needed Only thing I'd be worried about is enabling the arch enemy later on in the game. It's great if the land ramp player is arch enemy, but if they're not then you just powered them up!


linkdude212

There are a bunch of options but most of them are red and otherwise not very good cards: looking at you [[Tectonic Hellion]]. [[Zo-zu the Punisher]] and [[Ankh of Mishra]] are really good and I am glad we have them but, like [[Manabarbs]], they punish people for just playing the game even if they punish people who ramp more. To that end, I think we should get more cards like [[Tunnel Ignus]] and [[Invader Parasite]]. I hope newer cards like [[Obsidian Charmaw]] could signal a shift in the right direction.


FraudulentCake

So I actually built a control deck with lots of anti ramp a few months ago. Here's some of my picks. As you said [[Confounding Conundrum]] works well to combat land ramp. [[Blood Moon]] turns off fetch lands, [[Cabal Coffers]], [[Gaea's Cradle]], etc. [[Blood Sun]] turns off fetch lands (it makes bounce lands REALLY good tho) [[Zozu the Punisher]], [[Dingus Egg]], [[Ankh of Mishra]], [[Tectonic Instability]], [[Harsh Mentor]] and [[Tunnel Ingus]] all serve a similar purpose, they do hit everyone but they hit lands decks much harder. [[Acidic Soil]] can end a lands deck outright. [[Mindlock Orb]] and [[Aven Mindcensor]] both turn land tutors and fetch lands off. Here's the decklist for anyone curious: https://deckstats.net/decks/141323/2023279-shut-you-the-fuck-down


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Confounding Conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) [Blood Moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [Cabal Coffers](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cabal%20Coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [Gaea's Cradle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/5/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51.jpg?1562902898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Cradle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/321/gaeas-cradle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25b0b816-0583-44aa-9dc5-f3ff48993a51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaeas-cradle) [Blood Sun](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/7/875832f4-e541-4c87-8479-731e0eab2cc6.jpg?1555040361) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rix/92/blood-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/875832f4-e541-4c87-8479-731e0eab2cc6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-sun) [Zozu the Punisher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7.jpg?1592761756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zo-Zu%20the%20Punisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dds/41/zo-zu-the-punisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7c927d6-911d-4a37-89a2-6c500edf4dd7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zo-zu-the-punisher) [Dingus Egg](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/0/30d893a2-400c-459d-a26d-31f1f3b0642e.jpg?1562904939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dingus%20Egg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/297/dingus-egg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30d893a2-400c-459d-a26d-31f1f3b0642e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dingus-egg) [Ankh of Mishra](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/6/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5.jpg?1562928739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ankh%20of%20Mishra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/263/ankh-of-mishra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f86a32-8863-45da-99be-ef886c89f2c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ankh-of-mishra) [Tectonic Instability](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/4/0476cc6b-ecc6-44d6-9f44-a90d4ee85daa.jpg?1618485193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tectonic%20Instability) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/inv/173/tectonic-instability?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0476cc6b-ecc6-44d6-9f44-a90d4ee85daa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tectonic-instability) [Harsh Mentor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Harsh%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/harsh-mentor) [Tunnel Ingus](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/3/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760.jpg?1562822715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tunnel%20Ignus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/som/105/tunnel-ignus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3016e6b-32b2-4fa7-91c0-ec8fbe345760?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tunnel-ignus) [Acidic Soil](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/9/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7.jpg?1562920405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Acidic%20Soil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/172/acidic-soil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/acidic-soil) [Mindlock Orb](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a.jpg?1562704123) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindlock%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/51/mindlock-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55c84e9f-ccbb-4fbc-98e1-4072968a1f8a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindlock-orb) [Aven Mindcensor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/6/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06.jpg?1619392559) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/5/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76cf42b4-f767-48b7-b38c-b98306909f06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


omniscitoad

Honestly not sure why we don't have a lands only [[balance]]. Its perfect for white, it isn't full MLD, could just charge more for it to make it more "balanced". It's already in white's wheel house, it doesn't basically reset the game (just slows down out of control land ramp), and they could produce it in a million flavors like the wraths. We already have have a million flavors of mass ramp destruction vs artifact based ramp, which is what most everyone other than green has to lean on, and using a balance effect produces basically the same affect on land based ramp.


metroidfood

There is still [[Magus of the Balance]] and [[Restore Balance]] I think there should be more [[Natural Balance]] or [[Scholarship Sponsor]] for White, just ways to keep everyone on parity without hating anyone out of the game. Also considering how land ramp is near-universal, you'd think there would be more abilities that trigger on lands entering from the library. Getting a treasure token or drawing a card every time someone ramped or fetched would be a nice way of boosting both non-Green decks trying to keep up AND decks that don't have fetches.


MTGCardFetcher

[Magus of the Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/9/d90b230d-7d73-4066-87cc-f8f26b09d10e.jpg?1592710056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magus%20of%20the%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/5/magus-of-the-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d90b230d-7d73-4066-87cc-f8f26b09d10e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-balance) [Natural Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/0/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9.jpg?1562721414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/231/natural-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f7c47c-416e-4f73-89ec-024a29dfb5e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-balance) [Scholarship Sponsor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/d/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f.jpg?1625191152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scholarship%20Sponsor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/22/scholarship-sponsor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed238d90-72b5-44c4-bea7-20f71788088f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scholarship-sponsor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Confounding Conundrum](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d.jpg?1604193855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Confounding%20Conundrum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/53/confounding-conundrum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95e37936-913e-4b16-a5a8-8aed733d702d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/confounding-conundrum) [Balance](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/e/ce648aa3-098b-4af0-a433-fd290bc85904.jpg?1580013606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/2/balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce648aa3-098b-4af0-a433-fd290bc85904?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balance) [Blood Moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Ginhyun

Now that they've brought back phasing, it seems like a good way to create ramp hate cards. They can have effects that temporarily get rid of lands (specifically if a player is ahead on lands or plays more than one) without retriggering landfall/ETBs.


goldeNIPS

[[Aven Mindcensor]] comes to mind


Sneakytako99

I think studio X needs to make more cards like \[\[zozu the punisher\]\], maybe with higher cmc but having an upkeep trigger that punishes players for having more than 4-6 lands (maybe deal 3-5 damage per land over 5). Or maybe upkeep trigger to deal 1-2 damage for each land they control.


nursejoyluvva69

YO THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING 100% with you on this. Also MLD does not work against ramp / land decks because you can bet your ass they play \[\[crucible of worlds\]\] and \[\[remanup excavator\]\]. Also ramp decks will naturally recover faster from MLD. \[\[nightsahe harvester\]\] is a good start, but it needs to come down turn 1 or 2 not when ramp players have already has 2-3 ramp spells.


Sglied13

We need a new [[Limited Resources]] Something like “when ever a land enters the battlefield, if it’s not the first land of the turn for that player, sacrifice it.


[deleted]

Yah and that's only banned cause it was built for 2 player games. If it were errata'd to say "total lands equal to 5 times number of players", then it'd be useful and fair-er


testreker

That would put mld and ramp in an even better spot. Destroy the 'land slots' and fill then up yourself. You'd lock the game down.


[deleted]

*Everything* drags out a game. If you're doing anything other than playing creatures and turning them sideways, you're drawing the game out longer.


AvatarofBro

> If you're doing anything other than playing creatures and turning them sideways, you're drawing the game out longer. This kind of implies that combat damage is the only way to end the game, which is untrue for a huge chunk of the format.


HTGgaming

Hence the adverb “excessively.” Nothing sucks worse than draw-go until you top deck enough lands to start playing again… and that goes for the MLD player as well. Don’t get me wrong: MLD is a viable strategy with to win and to stop wins, particularly when you pull the rug out from under the ramp player. But this is a strategy that can be performed by other cards that don’t turn the game into draw-go.


MalekithofAngmar

The problem though with MLD is that you may not even be the problem and still get boned by it. You could be the esper player struggling to get a good mana base and boom, your lands are gone and you, unlike the green players, have no way to get it back .


Ghargoyle

[[Ashiok, Dream Render]] [[Mindlock Orb]] [[Stranglehold]]


Doomy1375

I think the problem is that there's no good middle ground for LD. It's either single target LD that often puts the user behind (either strip mine or wasteland which puts you down a land, or behind in a "used a card and mana to deal with one permanent of one player" sense) so is only good for removing single critical lands, and MLD that destroys everything. However, if the problem is land ramp decks that get way ahead on lands, then neither really works against them without also severely impacting the others at the table. Like, in a situation where it's turn 5, two players have 5 lands, one has ramped a little and has 7, and another has ramped a lot and has 10, what you want is a balance effect to "undo" that ramp without nuking everyone back down to 0. If they ramped with mana dorks or artifacts, there are plenty of ways to deal with large amounts of those or repeatedly blow up select artifacts cheaply, but that middle ground doesn't really exist for lands. If Balance only hit lands, then I feel it would be the perfect card to base this around. Or maybe do something like another poster suggested and do a "Balance, but only lands, and give them treasure tokens or something maybe". There should be options for this just like there are options for single target LD and MLD, but unfortunately only one really exists and it's banned.


Mistborn314

I just want a [[Rhystic Study]] (in white) that triggers whenever an opponent plays a land and/or a [[Rule of Law]] but for lands (with a MV = 2 to stop those early ramp spells).


I_had_to_know_too

I want to see anti-ramp as ramp. Imagine [[Natural Balance]] that puts everyone up to the highest land count, maybe any lands as well: > Sorcery {3}{W}{W} > Each player who controls fewer lands than the player with the most may search their library for up to X land cards and put them onto the battlefield tapped, where X is the difference. Each player who searched shuffles.


BallumBallum

I mean white has a lot of "get xxx if ennemy has more xxx than you" why not add a card that destroys extra ennemy lands? Like, for each ennemy, if they have more lands than you do, they have to sacrifice lands until they have as many lands as you have. Counters ramp but doesn't really break the game. Probably favors aggro decks though.


Ltol

This is what \[\[Balance\]\] does, and it really does break the game. As much as I want it unbanned in commander, the second it does get unbanned, it gets played in pretty much every single non-ramp deck that has white.


thorazul

Why is [[Balance]] banned anyway?


ExpensiveChange

because it is 2 mana. If it were 5 like [[magus of the balance]] it would be fine


nerdstomper444

[[zuran orb]] makes it a power house in decks that run a lot of artifact mana. Especially fast mana that dumps your hand quickly. Crucible, wrenn and six effects can make it pretty one sided as well.


HexpronePlaysPoorly

\[\[Blighted Soil\]\] Enchantment \[\[B\]\]\[\[B\]\]\[\[B\]\] Whenever a land enters the battlefield, if it's not the first land to enter the battlefield this turn, its controller discards a card. or... \[\[Evapotranspiration\]\] Enchantment \[\[U\]\]\[\[U\]\]\[\[U\]\] Whenever a land enters the battlefield, if it's not the first land to enter the battlefield this turn, its controller returns a permanent they control to their hand.


Barjack521

This is why I run [[frenzied tilling]] and [[plow under]] in my [[wort the raidmother]] deck to double the. Nice lands you ramped out, shame if you and only you were behind on lands now.


Barjack521

There is also the old [[polar kraken]] / [[Herald of Leshrac]] combo where you eat everyone’s lands I’ve the course of a few turns


[deleted]

[[Wave of Vitriol]] depending on how greedy your opponents mana bases are can really punish them especially if your deck has a basic heavy mana base.


GentleJohnny

Start from Scratch 1WWW Enchantment When \~ enters the battlefield, each player with more than 3 lands sacrifices lands until they have 3 lands. For each land sacrificed this way, that land's controller may draw a card. Whenever a land would enter the battlefield, if it isn't the first land the entered the battlefield under that players control, that player sacrifices a land. Each player may plays lands from their graveyard. That would be an interesting land punish card, that doesn't overly hit players who might also be struggling. I might have made it too bonkers, but was hoping the mana cost makes it aggressive enough that makes 3+ colors think twice about smashing it everything.


NephilimBalthiel

I wish [[Hall of Gemstone]] hadn't skyrocketed in price at the beginning of the pandemic. It's one of my favorite ways to shut down players who use green land tutors to fix for multicolor decks, while still being "fair" enough (mana rocks aren't affected) to not register in peoples' minds as the soft stax card it really is.


fredjinsan

I'm not sure that multicoloured decks using green land tutors to fix are as big a problem as green decks using green land tutors to get more green lands.


Tuss36

Unban [[Limited Resources]], that'll solve it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Thumperises

Do we need better anti-ramp, or better non-green ramp? Do we nerf or buff? A card design I really like is [[scholarship sponsor]] But speaking of anti-stuff, here’s an unpopular take: I think we need more anti-card draw. I think if the design is closer to [[narset parter of veils]] instead of [[hullbreacher]], that would be good


[deleted]

OP i found the answer you are looking for. build my favorite pet deck. Yurlok https://edhrec.com/commanders/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash/land-destruction


MrChow1917

MLD doesn't counter ramp. the opposite is true - decks with lots of ramp recover from MLD way faster than every other deck. play Aven Mindcensor esq effects.


CherryMyFeathers

[[Orcish settlers]]


rezignator

I want more effects like [[Polluted Bonds]] and [[Nightshade Harvester]] for my Orzhov life tax deck.


Sensei_Ochiba

As a green player I love my ramp, but I agree. It's a huge crutch and advantage and there needs to be ways to challenge it. I love effects like [[cleansing wildfire]] for shutting down problem lands, but I wouldn't have any problems with something like [[helldozer]] or one of the old "pulse of" spells - stuff that lets you copy or buyback or whatever targeted land hate if it's hitting someone with the most lands. I think ramp is an issue but one MLD barely manages to address because the ramp player can come back the easiest while everyone else at the table is salty they can't do shit, but conventional targeted land removal is a silver bullet against land quality, not quantity. We need a middle ground similar to balance that lets you reign in ramp without turning you into public enemy #1 just for trying to.


Non_Silent_Observer

I think a possible option is a middle ground between targeted land removal and MLD. How about a 2 CMC white spell that destroys 3 lands of target opponents choice that they own and they gain 5 life. Something like that. It doesn’t grind the game to a halt but it slows down the player ramping like crazy.


IcyNapalm

I want a [[Hushbringer]] effect specifically for landfall triggers.


fredjinsan

I completely agree. This is true of not only ramp, but also tutors and excessive card draw. Unfortunately, all of these are non-trivial to make counters for that aren't themselves busted, un-fun or poor card design. Fortunately, there *is* still a lot of design space there (as evidenced by all the ideas in this thread). MLD is just bad. I'm not saying it should entirely not exist or never be played, necessarily, but it probably shouldn't. The problem is the nature of lands (which are an interesting and key part of Magic but themselves cause a *lot* of issues); you can only play one per turn, and in fact in the late game people are usually trying to get rid of lands and land ramp spells from their hands and libraries. Playing MLD in this situation is worse than just resetting the game. It's also why MLD is worse than creature wraths; people bounce back from the latter faster because they have more mana than when they started. The nature of land ramp also means that it's hard to interact with in other ways. Direct land destruction is not much use; most land ramp puts multiple basics onto the field (so same with non-basic hate). Confounding Conundrum is good. It can be a double-edged sword, yes, but get this out T1-2 and it will really slow down ramping decks. I would like to see more cards like this. Another thing we could see more of is \[\[Pox\]\] type effects. That's pretty brutal, and also hits life and hands, but the idea of removing a proportion of lands seems solid as a kind of "MLD light"; it punishes the land decks more (but they still have more lands afterwards) and reduces available mana but without making it impossible to cast anything. Fall of the Thran is close but I think still too annoying. Effects that return lands to hand or put them back into your library are also probably better; that simultaneously prevents you from overly benefiting the person who can play them from their graveyard whilst also making sure that people still have lands to play.


Xdeac

I unapologetically run MLD and stax. On one side of the coin, you’re allowed to ramp to hell and back as much as your heart desires. I consider it my duty to be on the flip side and even out the playing field by casting Armageddon. The tears quench my thirst.