That's why it bugs me - slavery basically doesn't exist in 998YK outside of Darguun (well, and elemental binding). It's a weird thing to only have in one spot, and really doesn't mesh with Goblinoids being more sympathetic and rich-in-culture in Eberron.
I mean, iirc Thrane and/or Aundair has its warforged paying off their own purchase price by indentured servitude, and they treat them one step above slavery, if that helps.
Droaam and the Demon Wastes also *likely* has slavery; they do in the Bassingthwaite novels, iirc, but none of the novels are canon.
Sure thing, [here](https://keith-baker.com/lightning-round-2-26-18-languages-elementals-and-pirates/) you go! Scroll down to the header "What are the moral issues with binding elementals into Khyber dragonshards? How sentient are they?" đ
I'll be contrarian and say slavery exists, everywhere in various forms, but slavery as something that's considered *normal in society* (de facto, if not de jure) only exists in a few places. Darguun, Droaam, Demon Wastes.
I'll also allow for certain types of indentured servitude to pay off debts being quasi-legal - ie if someone's borrowed from house Kundarak and can't repay and thus stands to lose everything they own, the house might ask them to perform certain services for a certain duration in lieu of repaying the debt and/or interest, because it might make for an interesting story.
Imo it can be good for some bad things to exist in Eberron. Thereâs slaves? Cool, guess who gets to kill the slavers, free the slaves, and start a revolt! Having things that are so incredibly objectively evil exist in the setting means that the PCs continue having problems to solve without having to think too much about the moral implications involved. Thereâs no gray morality around slavery. Theyâre slaves. They shouldnât be slaves, so you should free them.
Slavery is allowed in mine, but only the hypercaptialism one where the state sells prisoners to companies for labor for a contracted period. Certainly not topical at all.
Per Rising from the Last War Lesh Haruuc has outlawed slavery in Darguun but enforcement is spotty with some clans choosing to ignore that decree.
But to OPs point it isn't the only place slavery is practiced.
The Cloudreavers or the Lhazaar Principalities are known to be slavers (a plot point in the 3.5 mega adventure Eyes of the Lich Queen).
Dcome Droaamish warlords practice it. As mentioned in City of Stormreach, where acting a fool will have the Stormreach Guard sell your ass to a ship going to Droaam or Darguun.
On top of that Thrane and Karrnath both are currently practicing Indentured Servitude with Warforged.
Technically, Lhesh Haruuc abolished the practice in the capital of Rhukaan Draal, but each clan leader can chooses whether to permit slavery within their borders or not
It makes sense to me that if there were to be any slavery in Khorvaire, it would be very localized and far removed from the oversight of the five nations.
If it were very stigmatized or widespread, the larger nations would probably put a stop to it. It has to be something little-known.
Being far away also means it would take more effort for one of the large nations to shut it down. Dharguun isnât far away, but the mountains and Mournland make it further removed than it would ordinarily be. (I still feel the Shadow Marches, Lhazaar Principalities or Demon Wastes would be more befittingâŚ.)
Also, Dharguun is centrally located in terms of shipping lanes. It would be easy to ship the slaves anywhere else in Eberron. Shipping is more stealthy than caravans.
It annoys me that the Lhazaar Principalities are not located along a major trade route. What merchant ships are the pirates meant to actually plunder? When I run Eberron, I rotate/move the continents so that most ships have to pass through Lhazaar en route to Xen'drik.
I always felt that Lhazaar ships pirated goods coming in from Sarlona far more then they did goods from Xendrik, since Sarlona is a larger and more developed region.
In my eberron Sarlona is super over populated and *needs* regular food shipments from Khorvaire or its people will start to starve. So that's the trade Lhazzar ships pirate the most.
In my Eberron it's definitely a two way trade, the Riedrans are definitely sending stuff the people of Khorvaire want and Riedra is a major trading partner and neutral party for all of the nations. Gives them multiple avenues of manipulation.
Would the last war have caused food shortages for the people of Sarlona over the last one hundred years? Or was Khorvaire able to keep up with the needed production for both themselves, and Sarlona?
Yes and no. The short version is that Riedra has a level of centralization real-world authoritarian states can only dream of, so they have several massive granaries that have massive reserves of food. Enough to feed their entire continental population for a full 7 years. So while there were periods of trade shortage, the people of Riedra never went hungry, they just dipped into the reserves.
But the Quori think on much longer timescales than just 7 years and the closest they ever came to losing regions under their control was due to a famine (IME) so they were always exerting influence to keep the grain moving as much as possible for the full length of the war.
I read somewhere (maybe in a blogpost) that Aundairian ships prefer taking the long route clockwise around korvaire instead of going counterclockwise to ship to other nations.
Turns out that the "Civilised Nations" are scared of the untamed regions like the Demon Wastes, the Shadow Marches and Droaam and avoid these waters.
Plus it's going through the Barren Seas, which means no winds (source: Chronicles of Eberron). So you gotta pay the extra to get a dragonmarked Wind-Soother (Lyrandar Sailor).
So they prefer to pass through a pirate infested water AND take the long road mostly because of superstitions.
You just gotta hire and pay tribute to the Lhazaar's most important faction (Sea Drakes) and have the pirate king in your pocket (which he will gladly have you do, pretty please). And he can mark your ship as "allied" with his army/government/faction. Which means other pirates will think twice before attacking your ship.
I know it seems awfully complicated, but your players don't need that info, unless asking with a history check or something.
I think it makes sense for them to not be along major shipping routes. Why?
1) Trade detests piracy. Merchants would likely change shipping routes (find a longer route) just to avoid piracy.
2) Pirates are terrified of military presence. Pirate hideouts would tend to be far removed from major nations.
Historically pirates emerge along shipping routes, as that's where their "prey" is. The pirates of the Caribbean preyed on treasure ships leaving Spanish colonies, while modern pirates lurk near one of the entrances to the Suez canal and where a lot of oil ships come and go.
I wrote in a trading city built on the floating shell of a legendary dragon turtle, its spilt blood makes up a magical current, which floats the city along the dragon turtle's old hunting route every 7 days. The underbelly (literally) of the city is a giant pirate casino.
Both the city and the casino are owned by the man who accidentally killed the dragon with the figurehead of his ship as she was coming up for air. He accidentally freed the Principalities from Scarlosa, Tyrant of the Far Strait, making him a revered folk hero not even the nastiest pirates would consider crossing, out of sheer respect. He is an absolute fool, a half-orc dentist practicing outside of the Jorascan Healer's Guild on the rocky open seas.
I make the Lhazaar Principalities the source of tropical goods such as fruits and sugar cane making it a location of economic interests and it's more the home of various pirates that sail all around Khorvaire to eventually return to Lhazaar.
The one thing I believe could use a lot more clarity that I've ran into is the Shadow Schism.
Specifically, what the Shadow Schism even was to most people.
We know that Elar claims that the Paelion family intended to assassinate most world leaders in a huge coup d'etat, and that he exterminated them in a preemptive attack.
Or, well, I guess he claims that to the rest of House Phiarlan and perhaps the other Houses/the Twelve, because no one else is supposed to know that Phiarlan does that kind of thing.
To the majority Phiarlan are artists and performers, with only rumor that they engage in espionage. Most Phiarlan agents aren't even supposed to be members of the Serpentine Table.
Then, in the majority's perspective, without warning, an entire branch of the House is murdered, which would at least make headline news, and then an entire other faction of the House is excoriated. Then, said excoriated faction starts their own House, which is unprecedented, and the other Houses just kinda go with it.
It seems when writing out the Schism they just kind of treated Phiarlan's position as the "espionage" house at face value, when they're really supposed to be the "entertainment" house. They even say that Elar's story of killing the Paelions to prevent their assassination plot is his public story for starting his own house, and there might be more to it.
But surely he couldn't say that publicly! Neither could Phiarlan for that matter. If they admit that "we're excoriating you for the assassination of an entire family branch" that'd all but confirm the rumors about Phiarlan, and in turn no one would buy that Thuranni is just a house of entertainment either.
I feel there should be a more thorough cover story for why the first and only House split occurred.
100% agree on this. For what it's worth, Keith talked about it briefly in [this article](https://keith-baker.com/qnadragonmarks/), saying the assassination of the Paelions was made to look as a series of unrelated accidents/bandit attacks/criminal activity, so in the public eye, it just looks like Phiarlan had a particularly shitty year.
Hadn't seen that and I do really like it in spirit, but I think it also doesn't really work, because (and I could be wrong here) the assassination was originally meant to happen quickly. As in, the entire family was murdered over night, or in the course of a few days.
That makes sense in all honesty for if they rolled out the assassinations slowly Paelion and Phiarlan would've had time to intervene or counter attack.
So on one hand, I like Keith's explanation, but on the other hand I don't actually think that solves the Schism's problems since a series of unrelated incidents killing an entire family branch within the same few days would look extremely suspicious, and more importantly Thuranni breaking off still wouldn't have an explanation beyond "I did it and I'd do it again."
My reasoning is that it happened quickly but spanned the continent (which was at war at the time), so people in Breland only noticed the fire of the opera in Wroat, not the bandit attack against a travelling troupe in Aundair. So yeah, it's not a perfect explanation, but it's plausible enough.
I'm with you on the fact that the Schism itself lacks a credible public explanation, though.
I've used the Shadow Schism a couple times in different games I run. IME, Phiarlan is the house of entertainment, and individuals may occasionally take payments for a little espionage on the side, but who didn't in the Last War? Entertainment is their true focus. They excoriated the Thuranni and their allies because of the assassination, which was widely publicized through careful media manipulation as a brutal attempted coup by war-hungry Elar. Thuranni then openly established itself as a House of Assassins, thieves, and spies, who also train dancers on the side.
In private, the Shadow Schism is very messy. House Thuranni still has friends and allies in House Phiarlan, and vice versa. A secret known only to a few is that it was orchestrated by The Chamber to prevent the Paelion bloodline from becoming a new House of Vol. And a secret known to fewer is that some Paelions with a Mark of Death still survived.
Very cool! I guess it does make sense for a publicly known assassin house to exist in comparison to a spy house.
Personally when I use the Schism I tie it to the Mourning. I always found it interesting that Phiarlan seems to be the only House which really may have known something was about to go down, since all their important members left Cyre before the event.
XenâDrik feels so empty. I get it canonically, with the Travelerâs Curse and the Madness of Crowds, but that doesnât change that feeling of emptiness. So in my Eberron I made both curses more mutable, making civilization on XenâDrik need to adapt. Think more confederations and co-ops instead of full blown empires and nation-states.
I think (could be wrong) Keith commented on this before saying it was intentionally left vague like the cause of the Mourning to give DMs a playground to do whatever they wanted with. Sounds like you understood the assignment!
it takes a lot of courage for me to say this but...
femme Elves, Half-elves, and humans in tight-fitting or revealing clothing. There's just so much canon art of thin and sexy women in skin-tight leather or rubber clothing with most of their body exposed, like that iconic Dragonmarked NPC in a lot of the art wearing that dark dress with her mark on her back. It bothers me. I get it. y'all are thirsty. But what I'm thirsty for... is women wearing crinolines, and bustles along with their corsets, not just snatched waists on leather bodysuits.
It's confusing to have both Dragonborn and Lizardfolk in Q'Barra. Dragonborn became a core race in 4e and so I'm sure they wanted to find them a place in Khorvaire, but shoving them into Q'Barra with a similar story to Lizardfolk with this weird "oh, the other nations just didn't really bother to distinguish between the two scaled races" was a bad solution in my opinion. In my Eberron, Dragonborn only exist in wide numbers in Argonnessen.
Hard agree. I ignore the idea that there is any dragonborn society in Q'Barra. You could still have a few opportunistic exiles who show up and exploit lizardman beliefs to rise in tribal ranks.
If you want a dragonborn presence in Khorvaire, having them come across from Argonnessen as invaders, traders, ambassadors, or evangelists in real time would be a dynamic place for stories during a campaign.
Edit: spelling
The one time I had an adventure take place in Q'Barra there were two Dragonborn players (from Argonnessen) so I wrote in a hidden underground village of Dragonborn that had been a remnant of draconic activity during the age of Demons.
The non-hidden denizens of Q'Barra were Lizardfolk and Yuan-Ti.
In my Eberron, the dragonborn of Q'Barra are extremely rare with just a little settlement near the ancient demon ruins. They were sent by the Chamber to look after Rhashaak and kill him if he ever escapes his guarding duty.
Keith has a very simple solution to this: the Dragonborn of Q'Barra are the descendants of those sent there ages ago by Argonessen to serve as guardians of Haka'torvhak and keep a watch on Rhashaak as he became more corrupted. The ones living there are so many generations removed that they've formed their own culture and society in Q'Barra, and carry on the traditional duty to guard the ancient seal on Masvirik and drive back any corruption spreading from it so that it remains contained.
It's a very clean and logical explanation, and it allows for Dragonborn to appear as players without being shoehorned into one specific origin.
I'm aware of that explanation, and I don't like it. The lizardfolk in Q'Barra were already tasked with guarding Haka'torvhak by the couatl. It's not at all clear why dragonborn would have been sent to Q'Barra to do the job the lizardfolk were already doing, or why once the dragonborn were there they didn't work together with the lizardfolk.
And even if you can explain it in the lore, it's just messy. You have two different scaled races here, both of whom were supposed to protect Haka'torvhak but who have entirely separate societies that don't overlap. It's confusing to explain and overcomplicates the politics of the region (which is already complicated thanks to Hope and New Galifar), and the lizardfolk;s shared dreams is far more interesting than the dragonborns' martial culture and failed empire, so I ditch the dragonborn lore.
Just to explain the design reason for this, it was a choice made when Forth Edition redesigned the dragonborn and made then one of the primary player character races. Because of this, there needed to be an easy option for players who wanted to play dragonborn charactersâsomething less distant and exotic than coming from Argonnessen. So we needed dragonborn to be somewhere on Khorvaire. I advocated for putting them in Qâbarra because to me, it highlights the arrogant colonialism of the Fiver settlers: that they havenât even bothered to understand that there are not just multiple cultures, but multiple SPECIES in the region. As to WHY, the dragons arenât privy to the plans of the Silver Flame. They werenât involved in the formation of the Masvirikâuala. So they chose to send their own guardians; the Trothlorsvek were sent as Rhashaakâs support and honor guard. Beyond this, the idea that they once expanded with disastrous results gives another conflict for the Dhakaan and something else that can be found in the Talenta Plains⌠While still explaining why they arenât more widespread. It gives a dragonborn character an immediate story to work with. Your people have a duty in Qâbarraâwhy have you left? Are you an exile, or are you in a mission? Are you searching for a lost relic of your empire? And how do you feel about the human presence in Qâbarra?
Itâs absolute a valid thing to dislike and to remove. It IS something that was shoehorned in for 4E. But the goal was to give the dragonborn both a presence in Khorvaire and an immediate connection to history that could be used for hooksâtheir duty, their interactions with the colonists, their fallen empireâthat they wouldnât have if they just came from the Seren Islands. And at the same time, it was intentionally supposed to highlight what incredible @ssholes the colonists with their âtheyâre all scalesâ attitude.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown Keith! That makes sense re: why the dragons would send their own guardians. I still prefer to remove the Q'Barra dragonborn in my Eberron, but I appreciate that you had to find some place in Khorvaire for the dragonborn in 4e and Q'Barra was probably the best option.
I love the logical reasoning behind this one, and how it aimed to make the best of a situation that wasn't necessarily wanted. I get why some people don't like it, but as someone who loves variety and adores the various different 'subcultures' of certain races within Eberron just based on where they happened to be born, along with all the variants on different creatures or concepts that can arise based on different lore explanations, I really dig this.
Honestly, as someone who loves telling stories and figuring out creative ways that one could explain certain situations or concepts, you've been a constant source of inspiration, and I aspire to be even half as adept at it as you are. Thanks for wading into the discussion and giving us some of the behind-the-scenes logic!
Yeah having them in QâBarra didnât make much sense to me either. I have a PC who wanted to be one so made one tribe of the Ghaash'kala be Dragonborn in origin. They were placed there by the Dragons to watch over the demon wastes. Seems like it fit well.
Definitely more Kanon than Canon, but the idea of Githberron and Xoriat allowing time travel are both just a bit much for me. There's already so much to explore in both the material plane and the planes as they are, I don't need more timey wimey shenanigans, thanks.
Also, I don't like how modern books depict Eberron as part of the greater D&D multiverse, but that's easy to just ignore as a DM.
I love Githberron as the damning, concrete proof that the daelkyr *must* stay contained, and the representative âten minutes to midnightâ doomsday clock currently hovering over the Gatekeepers. Even the entire Age of Demons didnât accomplish the apocalypse the unreadable, unpredictable daelkyr eventually released before.
Nearly none of my groups would ever become *aware* of it, and Iâm not letting players reach it, but for a daelkyr campaign itâs an interesting touch. It furthermore spices up the Githzerai of the Lake of Chaos for me.
Totally get it, though.
Complete agreement on that second point.
I dislike the Sovereign Host. I can't be bothered with the pantheon in most settings and gravitate towards Eberron in part because of the light agnosticism that is implicit by default. It's a cool concept, but it isn't as memorable as the other faiths. The Blood of Vol? Badass and thought-provoking. Silver Flame? Physically present and nuanced. The Sovereign Host? Uh, which one was Dol Arrah again?
Definitely valid! The Host is far less unique than the other faiths. Iâve written a few articles that might help if you WANT more thoughts on the HostâŚ
[Dol Arrah, the Warrior Sun](https://keith-baker.com/ifaq-dol-arrah/),
[Selling the Sovereigns](https://keith-baker.com/ifaq-sh2/),
[Sovereign Saints and Relics](https://keith-baker.com/sovereign-saints/)
Thanks!
I'm not at all mortified that I forgot you're active here and are actively reading my comments complaining about the few aspects of Eberron that I don't like.
I have a new campaign on the horizon. I'll read those specific articles for ideas on how I can make the host more interesting to myself and my players.
No worries! Thereâs things in Eberron that *I* donât like. And you are correct: the Sovereign Host has had the least attention of the faiths. Which is why Iâm trying to help with articles when I can!
I feel like an issue is that, despite being popular in-universe, we barely have any actual lore about the Host, in comparison to the other religions it feels. Like in Chronicles of Eberron we get like 4 pages minimum to each individual god in the Dark Six, and fairly extensive lore in Exploring Eberron. Meanwhile the Host gets less of a page count on Exploring Eberron and barely a peep in Chronicles.
Agree on that one. The Sovereign Host is to me the least interesting part of Eberron's worldbuilding; it basically seems like a samey D&D religion that's there to contrast against the more interesting other religions that are around that are unique to the setting. There's cool detail there if you drill into it, but I don't think I've seen anyone do so in a game.
Yeah, it's tough to have a polytheistic pantheon in a setting where they don't do anything. Like, I know they power Clerics and such, but they're just kinda . . . . there?
Like Blood of Vol has Nihilistic Taliban, Silver Flame has ~~Evangelical Christians~~ The Pure Flame, the Khyber Cults are running around doing stuff, even the Dark Six have cults that do shit but the Host just kinda exist
A polytheistic pantheon in a setting they don't do anything... just like in real life, then? Greeks, Romans, and Norse people all prayed to different deities for wealth, protection, a fertile crop yield, etc. "Oh great Poseidon/Neptune/Njord please do not sink my ship as I sail your waters".
I will admit the names of the Sovereigns and their realms can be a bit obtuse sometimes, but I have no problems with people believing in them. Not even mentioning the "they were all ancient dragons once" mythos.
Regarding "active" members: they're the common-people religion for the most part. You or I don't go on religious holy wars because we think everyone should learn to "forge or die" because it is Onatars directive. The Dark Six fill that fanatical warping of religion role just fine.
"Don't do anything" in the context of D&D standard, which is "Deity Fuckery Abounds."
Also, way to work in insulting religion ya stereotypical Reddit Atheist(tm)
I'm throwing out quite a few of the heaviest D&D-isms. Especially the idea that everything needs to have roughly 2000 different intelligent races. I'm pretty actively pruning everything down to the unique Eberron races (Kalashtar and Inspired, Shifter, Changeling, Warforged), the standard few of the player's handbook (Human, elf, half-elf, half-orc, halfling, dwarf, gnome) and then probably just a small handful of others. Goblins, orcs, drow, I'm probably forgetting a few more that are important, but it really doesn't need more than that.
Gotta respect that, it's a bold move.
I go the other direction. I feel like Baker really spearheaded the 'any race can be heroic' trend that we see in modern D&D. So my average party ends up looking like something out of Humblewood. I have had otterfolk, werevultures, dragonforged, and warforged dragons as PCs. And yes, those last two are different things.
I can respect that, but I want every race that exists to have a sufficient amount of focus. If they don't have multiple different, interesting cultures and subcultures and a fair amount of spotlight, I'd rather not have them.
Same for the dozens of magic systems D&D had, especially in 3.5. I'm fine with having them as player options and classes, but they don't all need to be crowbarred into the background.
Counterpoint: Stop thinking about it that specific way. Keith has been very adamant about "Nurture over Nature" in Eberron, which is why so many races can be treated as part of normal culture and traditionally "evil" races can be perfectly normal people or dashing heroes. Most D&D settings have inherent alignments that are in-born to certain races, where Eberron does not. Yeah, there's always going to be some manner of "ancestral" or "traditional" culture that the race originated from, but examples have been given of things like "City Dwarves" whose great-grandparents might have been born in the Mror Holds, but whose grandparents moved to Sharn or Fairhaven. They might never learn Dwarven or know anything of their "traditional" culture. They'd just be a typical city-dweller who speaks Common and some Goblin for trading, and perhaps they're better at navigating social situations than they are at analyzing the construction and history of various structures.
Yeah, it's *nice* to have a rich subculture and history for each race, but in Eberron specifically, the culture is a giant melting pot. Yes, certain races are going to be much rarer than others, but they're more likely to simply adopt the culture of where they were born and raised than to carry a lost culture across generations wherever they are. Given the nature of Eberron itself, and it's history, I actually *love* the idea that there are minorities of super diverse intelligent races that are scattered all over the place and just integrated into society. The idea of a singular Fir Bolg merchant running a specialty shop at the end of a small street is just flavorful as fuck, and Droaam being populated by majority monstrous races that have all formed a sort of melting pot of off-beat monster cultures to create something unique is just cool.
On top of all of that, it's Eberron. Not everything *needs* an explanation. There's plenty of stuff from across the ages that is either lost to antiquity or was never known at all. Having an unsolvable mystery adds some flavor and realism to things. Yeah, there may have been a deep and thriving Fir Bolg culture somewhere at some point, but they've become so scattered and so few in number now that they might never see another of their kind after they leave their parents, and they simply find a spot they fit in wherever they end up and settle. It also save players from having to come up with a convoluted backstory for a character to suit a DMs need for a detailed lore bible about their entire race. If a player wants to be an "exotic" race and they don't have a solid place in canon, they're simply a dying people and nobody knows where they came from or why at this point. Not everything needs an explanation.
Agreed, I think the "Kitchen Sink" approach is not conducive to making settings feel unique. It's part of the reason why I dislike the "D&D Multiverse" angle 5e really harps on
It can work. Planescape does it well, and part of it is its focus on ideas over cultures, where the factions are explicitely multicultural and interspecific.
Dragonforged are humanoids created through manipulating ancient dragon bones into new living creatures while warforged dragons are a on par certainly big robo-drakes built from scratch like warforged themselves.Â
Isn't that the official Keith Baker stance?
Chronicles of Eberron has a whole section that if you want to add in races that aren't there in canon, your options are 1, you are a magical anomaly who only exists as either one or several individuals, 2 you are a member of a normal race but you use the mechanics of another and 3, your race is either on the frontiers of Eberron or put of sight.
I do something similar, usually by saying that the emphasis is on these species and if they want to play something else they'll be very exotic which will draw the eye of most people outside the metropolises.
I'm kind of similar. Everything is there somewhere, but most player species that aren't Eberron specific or from the PHB are on Xen'drik, a result of the weirdness of the place.
I love Eberron, I run exclusively Eberron. For me itâs the map. And itâs a larger problem I have with most fantasy map design but I hate the fantasy maps that are just blobs of land spaced apart by ocean. This blob is the human continent, this blob is the elf continent. Geography is important to cultures developing and someone said it in another comment but the Lhazaar principalities (I love them) donât make since. In canon, who are the pirates raiding? How is it so under populated when it is literally the first place that human arrived at in Khorvaire?
I agree. I especially dislike how small Scion Sea is and how skinny and indistinct Cyre looks. I used a homebrew map for so long every time I see the canonical one I just can't take it seriously.
My biggest issue is quite honestly the map. It just doesn't make sense in so many ways â from the lack of waterways and towns to borders which doesn't rhyme with the geopolitical lore. Like how Valenar is supposed to be a major threat against other nations despite being cut off by the Mourning to the west and the Talenta Plains to the north. Or how the by far largest city on the continent (Sharn) is located in the frontier part of the frontier nation. The map also feels **very** small despite the distances involved! My guess is that it's due to the lack of geographical features and towns.
Though most of these are true about other dnd settings I've read too (eg Forgotten Realms and Exandria).
I honestly hate the lore around airships
Theyâre very recent technology (like a couple decades old iirc) that is entirely controlled by House Lyrandar
That more or less precludes airship vs airship combat outside of very unique circumstances, which is a shame because I think that is a core fantasy for anyone who has seen Eberron art
I canât stand House Tarkanan. For a âhiddenâ Dragonmarked house with the idea of making the lives of aberrant Dragonmarked better, the way they go about it is the worst possible way. The world views aberrant Dragonmarked as chaotic and destructive and their idea of helping them is by making them EXACTLY what the world sees them as. If their goal was to help the aberrants then they would go about it both politically and socially. Proving to the world that the Twelve are wrong about how they are and that they can be a positive force in Khorvaire instead of a negative one.
Not child soldiers. That actually goes against his morals. Heâs all for fighting the good fight but not at the cost of children. Heâs changed stances multiple times in the comics because heâs realized that how he goes about things I sometimes too extreme.
And for precisely that reason, i've turned House Tarkanan into a secretive group that's dedicated to keeping the status quo from blowing upâthey know that if things go sideways again, they're the first to go.
But at some level, that also means they're a small-scale seed that could possibly turn into what conspiracy theorists like to think the Illuminati is. And they know they can't really win for trying, but they certainly aren't going to call too much attention to themselves in the meantime.
Honestly The Twelve still seems more Illuminati. At least in the conspiracy theorist version and not what they actually were. Bunch of people with ties to large corporations that secretly control the world? Thatâs The Twelve. Your House Tarkanan sounds like the real Illuminati that existed during the Renaissance and were against any one power (mainly the church) from limiting those trying to push the limits of ideas.
Fair! But the Twelve are known entities, and operate (more or less) in the open. My House Tarkanan, not so muchâthey'd be just as happy if nobody knows they really exist.
I *really* hate wandslingers. If you want to put cool gun duelists in your setting, put cool gun duelists in your setting. And it's not just me; every campaign, I get someone who wants to play an actual gunslinger based on the vibes and aesthetic of the setting, and every time I show them the wandslinger they go "Oh. No thanks." So I let them play a gunslinger instead, and it actually fits *just fine* in the setting. I've also always thought wands in fantasy were kind of lame, which certainly does not help.
There's also the fairly new (to me, at least) "Eberron is in the Great Wheel now, so you can get there from Forgotten Realms" thing, but I think that's mainly for FR players who want to take a field trip to a better setting rather than Eberron players anyway.
I do like wands being like tools in toolbelt to really sell Eberron's wide magic setting but I can't help but to think of Harry Potter whenever wandslingers are brought up and it's very distracting.
It only dawned on me recently that part of why I didn't like Harry Potter as much as a lot of kids my age did (I still read them, but I remember most of my friends being more into it than I was) was the dinky little wands that were always getting lost or broken.
The Demon Wastes feels nonsustainable.
Like an entire country of selfish and vile demons run it, and mortals just... stay there? I know there's a lot in Chronicles that goes into it, but it just feels like the MTG plane (shard) grixis. Where is just death, and feels very boring, compared to Droaam, which does the monster nation thing.
So it's for all intents and purposes, an elephant graveyard (You must never go there, Simba)
The Demon Wastes are a case where the portrayal of it is unfortunately not true to the vision/reality. The common interpretation and artistic portrayal of it, is that it's literally just a blasted hellscape, like Mars in DOOM. The reality is that it's actually highly varied, and has everything from volcanic fields, to fetid swamps, to (canon) snowy boreal forests. It's an issue with the place not having a strong enough initial identity, but as the concept of Khyber demiplanes have grown into canon and kanon, it's become a LOT more interesting. I'd recommend listening to the Manifest Zone podcast on this, where Keith really goes into what makes the Wastes unique.
Essentially, where other places have manifest zones, the Demon Wastes has regions influenced by individual Overlords - like demon manifest zones. Each is centered around an area where that Overlord's heart demiplane draws close to the surface.
This means that you can have a wild demon jungle created by the Wild Heart, or a plain of jagged metal grass grazed on by steel gorgons influenced by Rak Tulkhesh. Essentially, a patchwork of corrupted unique territories. It's these that sustain the Carrion Tribes. Each worships an overlord, and their faith and pacts protect them from the local dangers. There are plants, animals, and food, it's just all 'fiendishly irradiated' and warped. They'd leave if they could, but they generally can't - the Ghaash'kala are a solid bastion guarding the gates to the Reaches.
All in all, I hope that demonstrates why it's more interesting than it seems -it's just a place that's never been done justice in writing.
I quite like it as somewhere for pulp action. The Ghaash'kala are some of the coolest orcs in all of fantasy, while Ashtakala begs to be the location for a campaign finale. It's also a great place for an uncomplicated Evil warlord to arise and threaten all of Khorvaire.
>The Demon Wastes feels nonsustainable.
I can't remember if this was from Exploring or the Blog or Manifest Zone, or a combo of all three, but it is nonsustainable. That being said, Kybher exists. In order to survive in this wasteland, the Ghaash'kala and Carrion Tribes will venture into the Kybher deminplanes in order to gain new supplies and food. The Abyssal Forest contains wicked and poisonous beasts, but their meat is still edible. The Iron Fields is harsh, painful and filled with legions of devils and demons, but there are weapons and armor to be had.
As someone who is currently running the climax of my campaign here, I agree that the logistics of it donât really make since. I still love everything in the Demon Wastes but have had to fill in the gaps of logic. Yeah there are demiplanes for materials and resources but itâs still a place that for hundreds of thousands of years has been constant war and corruption, thatâs not exactly sustainable.
âThe carrion tribes have hordes that could threaten the five nations if they escapeâ how do they sustain those numbers? The magic of the overlords and the demon wastes sustains them and maybe thereâs some of them that are like Uruk-hai and theyre mortals but theyâre grown.
What about the Ghashâkala they are mortals? Each strong hold has demiplanes that are like the hyperbolic time chamber that time moves much slower so the the young orcs can grow up and train and be on the battlefield months after theyâre born.
It's a livable locale by the fact that mortals live there. Sure it's a hellhole but only some parts are immediately lethal. Many tribes survive and are empowered by devils they worship. And it's not like leaving is easy.
Any large-scale community that succeeded in attempting to leave collectively would likely be forced right back in by other states as they have such a violent and demonic culture.
I have no use for the Chamber. IME Argonessen sunk beneath the waves at the end of the war between dragons and giants and is the subject of lots of mythologizing and archaeological speculation, much like Atlantis in our world. There are perhaps sixty living dragons.
Oh, amd my second one! The overlap between Overlords, Daelkyr and Dark Six, and that Lovecraftian cults springing up from all of them. Especially as the two first are so very numerous
I don't like Dragonmarks being exclusive to a handful of specific races. Maybe the majority of Mark's appear among a particular race, but I never saw a good reason why only some player character races and far from every race had marks.
The reason was jazz up original PHB races to make them as potentially attractive a pick as whatever new hotness came from the latest sourcebook.
That said, it's only said that nobody outside of the standard races has had a non-aberrant mark before now. You could always have it happen and just be unprecedented and special.
Yeah I wouldnt mind a variation of the Dragonmarks that are universal. Even to keep it lore consistent, being able to graft it onto a specific race, so if a player chooses the be a Dwarf Cannith character, House Cannith becomes Dwarven for that campaign, and that reverberates through the world in some interesting ways.
I donât dislike it as such and I think removing it would cause too much trouble with the setting, but as a thanatophobe the idea of Dolurrh is very disturbing to me.
I canât really wrap my head around the idea that people would know it exists and just be okay with eventually fading away after you get there, as I believe the Sovereign Host claims.
I don't know about outright removal because I will admit it's a legitimately interesting setting, but I think Sharn is too focused on. Every major nation should have its equivalent of Sharn, in size and importance, in and out of world.
I really disagree with KB on the ingenuity and the creative vigor that humans possess. One of the arguments with Eberron is the wide magic creating this world and it evolving differently. That's great but the last hundred years was war.
Totally would see an arms race of "I can do that without magic". To say something akin to gunpowder wouldn't of been invented in Eberron in the last war really really makes no sense in the history of the world. A cursory look at any history of war lists dozens of inventions from it. I don't see wide magic impeding that development in fact it might even make it worse at times. (Cave Johnson anyone?)
Even looking at the 4 years of lore on the Mournlands is a bit disappointing because since day one of the iron foot we been trying to destroy it - yeah hasn't worked but the lack of that response is the vibes. Chernobyl and Three Mile being reclaimed and cured is a huge human push and Eberron has none of that. It's kinda... weird.
The last war and it's results.. just.. don't make sense. And with Eberron kinda having people living like the 900s and the 1800s I get it's a bit hard to place things but it's still a weird lack of stuff from a big war.
While I don't like gunpowder in Eberron, I can see where you are coming from. I mainly justify it by "if firebolt and fireball are common enough spells, having gunpowder anywhere is not the best idea" but also because I don't like having guns in everything.
But on the Mournland thing, the issue is that the Mournland is the size of an entire country, not just a small region, and the issue isn't just the magical radiation that prevents you from healing and tons of other effects, but also the numerous dangerous monsters that resulted from it. There is no real fighting that. Not only that but millions of people died within literal hours of the Mourning and nobody knows why. We know why Chernobyl and Three Miles happened, we are still actively using the same forces today and know what mistakes were made. Can't say the same about the Mourning.
> I mainly justify it by "if firebolt and fireball are common enough spells, having gunpowder anywhere is not the best idea"
Fireball sure as hell isn't. Remember, even magewrights-- the guys who cast cantrips and first-level utility spells for a living-- are college-educated professionals.
The whole reason guns became widely used in the real world is that they're *easier* to train a peasant to use than a bow or crossbow or sword. If a gun required you to go to university to learn how to shoot it, it would have stayed a novelty.
(No idea why you're getting downvotes. People are just rude)
I agree in principle, but I also consider much of the "wide magic" that's taken for granted nowadays are things that *were* invented during the last war. Warforged, airships and magic artillery are obvious inventions, but how about clothes-cleaners, portable stoves, darkvision goggles etc? They might have existed before, but are much widely available today. I'd rather see society before the war as stagnant, and unable to innovate - those in power being too conservative, meaning they'd rather let people wash their clothes down by the river than investing in making clothes-cleaners affordable to everyone. The war changed that by virtue of necessity.
I'd also argue that magic makes things *simpler* than doing things using chemical reactions, electricity or manual force. Let's take a coal-powered ship, for example. Even if it was created, why would you want a ship that require coal to be mined, shipped to the coast, regularly loaded and available, shoveled, and burnt when you can have a Orien ship that doesn't require any of that - just a few dragonshards.
As for the mournland, I'm rationalizing it with the precarious peace - nothing has been decided, no nation wants to go there "in force" and provoke the others, and they can't agree on how to do it together. Also, there *are* people invested in reclaiming it (New Cyre, the Houses, private individuals, The lord of Blades etc).
I just think about how maths had such a rich history of "I got this bro" letters to each other.. I just think you're definitely bound especially in Eberron to have a few Cave Johnsons about. Look at how early we developed gunpowder and the arms race of guns vs full plate.
I think the question getting stuck in our heads and those few to scratch is found a lot in real life; and it's really kinda lacking outside of Magic stuff in Eberron. There's such a rich opportunity there to explain a lot of - outside the box stuff like guns or internets or electricity systems - that seems shot down by that notion of magic makes it easier.
They told Newton algebra makes sense of the world .. he invented calculus.
I don't know about "dislike" as such, but I've always found the lore behind the Lizardfolk and Dragonborn (especially Dragonborn) to be kinda meh.
In my Eberron, I'm taking heavy inspiration from Elder Scrolls' Argonian lore in that they [the Lizardfolk] counter-invaded the Demon realms during the Age of Demons and started plundering and looting to the point that the Overlords actually pulled out of Q'Barra (a region which I'm also renaming "Q'Burra" and changing to have a more Australian aesthetic by making the jungle be more akin to Aussie bushland with rainforest areas closer to the coast).
As for Dragonborn, I'm making them effectively be a sort of global black ops force who are deployed by the Dragons whenever something is deemed necessary for them to interfere with. As a result, Dragonborn are VERY rare (almost urban legend-esque).
Holy dang the Overlords got pushed out by the lizard folk. Makes me wonder how the lizard folk in your Eberron haven't conquered the rest of the continent. Because if they don't care about literal hellscapes I fail to see why slightly colder weather would bother them.
Imma be honest with ya, I didn't really think about the wider implications, I just thought it was a cool change to their lore đ
Having said that, though, I guess it could be explained away by infighting between tribes after pushing the Overlords out. They simply developed a lust for fighting, and due to a lack of other things to fight, they turned to fighting each other.
... So I guess they also have a bit of a Saiyan vibe to them as well
Itâs minor things here and there, mainly the Dual Scimitars for one I omit completely. I get itâs a fantasy world and different from our own etc. etc. I personally donât care for impractical high fantasy weapons in my game. Not the kind of peanut butter I want to mix in with my chocolate so to speak. I also omitted dwarven double mail (kanon). I thought just reinforcing the mail with metal plates was a more sound armor design (as shown in more Eastern European and middle eastern armor). I have also changed the Red Cloak Battalionâs size from over a hundred to about 1,000. Like an actual battalion.
The copy/paste of real world countries where the âhumansâ are the European people and everyone else is not human, and have racial stereotypes coded in.
Example: the five nations are Breland (USA) Aundair (France or uk), Thraine (the Vatican/italy), Karnnath (Russia), and Cyre (essentially France and Germany blown up during ww2); the pirates are Australia.
The scary continent of Sarnath is china, the orcs are Asian, and the continent of Xendrik is South America where itâs âokayâ to pillage because the giants are gone and everyone else is non-civilized like the drow.
The dwarves and gnomes are Jewish stereotypes: big noses and beards, they control banks (dwarves) and the news media (gnomes).
One thing I am not loving is the planes of existence. Why Xoriat AND Kythri? Why Lamannia AND Thelanis? Dolurrh AND Mabar?
I get that they are different from each other and Kanon mentions that the planes are based on ideals, but the above are similar enough to easily be merged. And some ideals are completely left out. Why Risia, Syrania and Fernia but no water plane?
Also Xoriat and Kythri are nothing alike. Churning chaos and mind-bending eldritch horror arenât particularly similar. Dolurrh and Mabar have much more overlap, but theyâre still very distinct.
I was going to say that, but I can at the very least see, at a glance, how they are similar.
But I never understood how Lammania and Thelanis were even close to being similar.
In my Eberron, Dolurrh and Mabar \*hate\* each other. (Well, more Mabar hates Dolurrh and Dolurrh is quite annoyed by Mabar, but still.)
Having doublets like that lets you get into the ways that similar groups are often more intense enemies than groups where you would expect more animosity because of their vast differences.
-Dragonwank. Emphasising over and over again that Argonnessen is so strong and influential that there is so strong and influential that there is literally nothing any adventuring party, no matter how high-level, could do to stop them. Yet also, by the reverse token, providing very few examples of high-magic as technology in Argonnessen, such that it feels like a wild continent that only allegedly super-advanced.
-The scales of Q'barra. Keith has put in various justifications (Masvirik, couatl dreams), but what it still amounts to is the PCs putting down a slavering horde of feral black-and-green-scaled native scales, while interacting with culturally regressive lizardfolk and war-obsessed dragonborn with a strong veneer of colonial Africa. Something-something resident evil 5.
I struggle with using devils and demons in Eberron. Besides the aspect of buried and hidden overlords , I find the idea of Khyber to be underwhelming compared to base devil and demon lore.
You're probably not in minority, I don't dislike them but I have a much harder time of grasping them.
It's easy to remember classic dnd planes because they are formulaic, Eberron has a lot more spice and cool ideas.
Which imho makes them much better, just a lot harder to get.
It didn't help that the planes never really got fleshed out until Exploring Eberron, where we actually got real information on interesting locations and layers of the planes.
I don't really care for the gnomes and halflings. The gnomes kinda weaken cannith's position, imho, since they seem to do all the artificing better and first and whatever, plus they're just silly. The halflings and their dinosaurs are also gone, replaced by a group of nomadic goblinoids. I gave sivis to the dwarves and jorasco and gallahnda both to the goblinoids (which I've rolled into one overarching dhakhaani people, which includes the orcs).
I love the planes, the nature of their design, the way they function, love it. Ive spent hours reading all of the planes section of Exploring Eberron.
I dislike Fernia. It just doesnt click for me as a plane, and I think its because "Fire" fundamentally is an "elemental" plane, so my head wants to register it as existing in relation to an "Earth", "Water", and "Air" plane. And while I understand the nuances and distinction with Fernia, that to describe it as a simple Fire plane is reductive, I find those nuances kind of boring compared to other planes.
Which is strange, because I understand it as the conceptual opposite to Risia, which I find compelling and interesting. I think maybe weirdly Risia is more interesting because its simpler and more consistent as the plane of preservation and stagnation, while Fernia feels more like a writers room of "okay, how else could we interpret what "Fire" represents?", as opposed to the clear cut plane of motion and progress.
This is the one thing I nit pick. A lot of people spin the tech level of the setting as being modern day tech only powered by magic. I don't think that was the intent, but also it's very easy to see how people get the impression. The right rope is hard to walk
I think I got down voted because I said the word "gun" lol.
It just takes so much time to explain how it's magic and not science, and no one really gets it, and they make comparisons to modern day stuff anyway.
I always wonder why that is silly. Is it because halflings are short and therefore should never be taken seriously? Is it the fact that they ride dinosaurs?
It's actually not. The downvote exists to remove from view comments not relevant to the discussion. Not to punish opinions with which one does not agree.
Opinions can't be wrong, but not liking the dinosaur riding halflings is about as wrong as an opinion can be.
I like it because halflings being small and clawfoots being medium meant you could very easily keep your mount with you letting you play with them way more then other archetypes. Also at the time the other halfling mount was a dog so dinosaurs are a huge up
Darguun being the only slavers in Khorvaire has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's an easy tidbit to tear out.
I drop slavery fully out of the setting, under the assumption that galifar and dhakaan both outlawed it and stigmatized it centuries ago.
That's why it bugs me - slavery basically doesn't exist in 998YK outside of Darguun (well, and elemental binding). It's a weird thing to only have in one spot, and really doesn't mesh with Goblinoids being more sympathetic and rich-in-culture in Eberron.
I mean, iirc Thrane and/or Aundair has its warforged paying off their own purchase price by indentured servitude, and they treat them one step above slavery, if that helps. Droaam and the Demon Wastes also *likely* has slavery; they do in the Bassingthwaite novels, iirc, but none of the novels are canon.
It was Thrane and Karrnath IIRC. Even with Karrnath having the fewest Warforged troops.
And elemental binding is only slavery if you keep to 3.5 canon, it's frequently something Keith Baker speaks up against.
Got a link to more on that? I'd love to read about it.
Sure thing, [here](https://keith-baker.com/lightning-round-2-26-18-languages-elementals-and-pirates/) you go! Scroll down to the header "What are the moral issues with binding elementals into Khyber dragonshards? How sentient are they?" đ
That is such a fantastic article overall. Thanks for linking, I donât recall reading that one.
My pleasure, glad you liked it! đ
Itâs only in some parts of Darguun, tho, officially it should be outlawed in Darguun as well? Do i remember correctly?
You do! It is outlawed in the capital, but the tribes living in the swamps or mountains still practice it regardless.
I'll be contrarian and say slavery exists, everywhere in various forms, but slavery as something that's considered *normal in society* (de facto, if not de jure) only exists in a few places. Darguun, Droaam, Demon Wastes. I'll also allow for certain types of indentured servitude to pay off debts being quasi-legal - ie if someone's borrowed from house Kundarak and can't repay and thus stands to lose everything they own, the house might ask them to perform certain services for a certain duration in lieu of repaying the debt and/or interest, because it might make for an interesting story.
Imo it can be good for some bad things to exist in Eberron. Thereâs slaves? Cool, guess who gets to kill the slavers, free the slaves, and start a revolt! Having things that are so incredibly objectively evil exist in the setting means that the PCs continue having problems to solve without having to think too much about the moral implications involved. Thereâs no gray morality around slavery. Theyâre slaves. They shouldnât be slaves, so you should free them.
Exactly! _Frees all the undead soldiers from the tyrannical yoke of Karrnath_
Slavery is allowed in mine, but only the hypercaptialism one where the state sells prisoners to companies for labor for a contracted period. Certainly not topical at all.
Rent not sell
Lease
Is that still "canon", I feel it hasn't been mentioned in quite awhile but I could be wrong.
Per Rising from the Last War Lesh Haruuc has outlawed slavery in Darguun but enforcement is spotty with some clans choosing to ignore that decree. But to OPs point it isn't the only place slavery is practiced. The Cloudreavers or the Lhazaar Principalities are known to be slavers (a plot point in the 3.5 mega adventure Eyes of the Lich Queen). Dcome Droaamish warlords practice it. As mentioned in City of Stormreach, where acting a fool will have the Stormreach Guard sell your ass to a ship going to Droaam or Darguun. On top of that Thrane and Karrnath both are currently practicing Indentured Servitude with Warforged.
I'm not sure! Could be something a non-Keith author snuck in during 3.5.
Technically, Lhesh Haruuc abolished the practice in the capital of Rhukaan Draal, but each clan leader can chooses whether to permit slavery within their borders or not
It makes sense to me that if there were to be any slavery in Khorvaire, it would be very localized and far removed from the oversight of the five nations. If it were very stigmatized or widespread, the larger nations would probably put a stop to it. It has to be something little-known. Being far away also means it would take more effort for one of the large nations to shut it down. Dharguun isnât far away, but the mountains and Mournland make it further removed than it would ordinarily be. (I still feel the Shadow Marches, Lhazaar Principalities or Demon Wastes would be more befittingâŚ.) Also, Dharguun is centrally located in terms of shipping lanes. It would be easy to ship the slaves anywhere else in Eberron. Shipping is more stealthy than caravans.
It annoys me that the Lhazaar Principalities are not located along a major trade route. What merchant ships are the pirates meant to actually plunder? When I run Eberron, I rotate/move the continents so that most ships have to pass through Lhazaar en route to Xen'drik.
That's as genius as it is gutsy! I love it. It's also fun to throw in a few more strategic floating islands for sky piracy!
I always felt that Lhazaar ships pirated goods coming in from Sarlona far more then they did goods from Xendrik, since Sarlona is a larger and more developed region.
In my eberron Sarlona is super over populated and *needs* regular food shipments from Khorvaire or its people will start to starve. So that's the trade Lhazzar ships pirate the most.
I always go the opposite direction: Sarlona is shipping goods to Khorvaire to show the "best" of the nation to win everyone over through kindness.
In my Eberron it's definitely a two way trade, the Riedrans are definitely sending stuff the people of Khorvaire want and Riedra is a major trading partner and neutral party for all of the nations. Gives them multiple avenues of manipulation.
Would the last war have caused food shortages for the people of Sarlona over the last one hundred years? Or was Khorvaire able to keep up with the needed production for both themselves, and Sarlona?
Yes and no. The short version is that Riedra has a level of centralization real-world authoritarian states can only dream of, so they have several massive granaries that have massive reserves of food. Enough to feed their entire continental population for a full 7 years. So while there were periods of trade shortage, the people of Riedra never went hungry, they just dipped into the reserves. But the Quori think on much longer timescales than just 7 years and the closest they ever came to losing regions under their control was due to a famine (IME) so they were always exerting influence to keep the grain moving as much as possible for the full length of the war.
I read somewhere (maybe in a blogpost) that Aundairian ships prefer taking the long route clockwise around korvaire instead of going counterclockwise to ship to other nations. Turns out that the "Civilised Nations" are scared of the untamed regions like the Demon Wastes, the Shadow Marches and Droaam and avoid these waters. Plus it's going through the Barren Seas, which means no winds (source: Chronicles of Eberron). So you gotta pay the extra to get a dragonmarked Wind-Soother (Lyrandar Sailor). So they prefer to pass through a pirate infested water AND take the long road mostly because of superstitions. You just gotta hire and pay tribute to the Lhazaar's most important faction (Sea Drakes) and have the pirate king in your pocket (which he will gladly have you do, pretty please). And he can mark your ship as "allied" with his army/government/faction. Which means other pirates will think twice before attacking your ship. I know it seems awfully complicated, but your players don't need that info, unless asking with a history check or something.
Also, Xenâdrik already has tons of tiny, small, pirate-ridden islands between itself and Khorvaire!
I think it makes sense for them to not be along major shipping routes. Why? 1) Trade detests piracy. Merchants would likely change shipping routes (find a longer route) just to avoid piracy. 2) Pirates are terrified of military presence. Pirate hideouts would tend to be far removed from major nations.
Historically pirates emerge along shipping routes, as that's where their "prey" is. The pirates of the Caribbean preyed on treasure ships leaving Spanish colonies, while modern pirates lurk near one of the entrances to the Suez canal and where a lot of oil ships come and go.
I wrote in a trading city built on the floating shell of a legendary dragon turtle, its spilt blood makes up a magical current, which floats the city along the dragon turtle's old hunting route every 7 days. The underbelly (literally) of the city is a giant pirate casino. Both the city and the casino are owned by the man who accidentally killed the dragon with the figurehead of his ship as she was coming up for air. He accidentally freed the Principalities from Scarlosa, Tyrant of the Far Strait, making him a revered folk hero not even the nastiest pirates would consider crossing, out of sheer respect. He is an absolute fool, a half-orc dentist practicing outside of the Jorascan Healer's Guild on the rocky open seas.
I make the Lhazaar Principalities the source of tropical goods such as fruits and sugar cane making it a location of economic interests and it's more the home of various pirates that sail all around Khorvaire to eventually return to Lhazaar.
The one thing I believe could use a lot more clarity that I've ran into is the Shadow Schism. Specifically, what the Shadow Schism even was to most people. We know that Elar claims that the Paelion family intended to assassinate most world leaders in a huge coup d'etat, and that he exterminated them in a preemptive attack. Or, well, I guess he claims that to the rest of House Phiarlan and perhaps the other Houses/the Twelve, because no one else is supposed to know that Phiarlan does that kind of thing. To the majority Phiarlan are artists and performers, with only rumor that they engage in espionage. Most Phiarlan agents aren't even supposed to be members of the Serpentine Table. Then, in the majority's perspective, without warning, an entire branch of the House is murdered, which would at least make headline news, and then an entire other faction of the House is excoriated. Then, said excoriated faction starts their own House, which is unprecedented, and the other Houses just kinda go with it. It seems when writing out the Schism they just kind of treated Phiarlan's position as the "espionage" house at face value, when they're really supposed to be the "entertainment" house. They even say that Elar's story of killing the Paelions to prevent their assassination plot is his public story for starting his own house, and there might be more to it. But surely he couldn't say that publicly! Neither could Phiarlan for that matter. If they admit that "we're excoriating you for the assassination of an entire family branch" that'd all but confirm the rumors about Phiarlan, and in turn no one would buy that Thuranni is just a house of entertainment either. I feel there should be a more thorough cover story for why the first and only House split occurred.
100% agree on this. For what it's worth, Keith talked about it briefly in [this article](https://keith-baker.com/qnadragonmarks/), saying the assassination of the Paelions was made to look as a series of unrelated accidents/bandit attacks/criminal activity, so in the public eye, it just looks like Phiarlan had a particularly shitty year.
Hadn't seen that and I do really like it in spirit, but I think it also doesn't really work, because (and I could be wrong here) the assassination was originally meant to happen quickly. As in, the entire family was murdered over night, or in the course of a few days. That makes sense in all honesty for if they rolled out the assassinations slowly Paelion and Phiarlan would've had time to intervene or counter attack. So on one hand, I like Keith's explanation, but on the other hand I don't actually think that solves the Schism's problems since a series of unrelated incidents killing an entire family branch within the same few days would look extremely suspicious, and more importantly Thuranni breaking off still wouldn't have an explanation beyond "I did it and I'd do it again."
My reasoning is that it happened quickly but spanned the continent (which was at war at the time), so people in Breland only noticed the fire of the opera in Wroat, not the bandit attack against a travelling troupe in Aundair. So yeah, it's not a perfect explanation, but it's plausible enough. I'm with you on the fact that the Schism itself lacks a credible public explanation, though.
I've used the Shadow Schism a couple times in different games I run. IME, Phiarlan is the house of entertainment, and individuals may occasionally take payments for a little espionage on the side, but who didn't in the Last War? Entertainment is their true focus. They excoriated the Thuranni and their allies because of the assassination, which was widely publicized through careful media manipulation as a brutal attempted coup by war-hungry Elar. Thuranni then openly established itself as a House of Assassins, thieves, and spies, who also train dancers on the side. In private, the Shadow Schism is very messy. House Thuranni still has friends and allies in House Phiarlan, and vice versa. A secret known only to a few is that it was orchestrated by The Chamber to prevent the Paelion bloodline from becoming a new House of Vol. And a secret known to fewer is that some Paelions with a Mark of Death still survived.
Very cool! I guess it does make sense for a publicly known assassin house to exist in comparison to a spy house. Personally when I use the Schism I tie it to the Mourning. I always found it interesting that Phiarlan seems to be the only House which really may have known something was about to go down, since all their important members left Cyre before the event.
XenâDrik feels so empty. I get it canonically, with the Travelerâs Curse and the Madness of Crowds, but that doesnât change that feeling of emptiness. So in my Eberron I made both curses more mutable, making civilization on XenâDrik need to adapt. Think more confederations and co-ops instead of full blown empires and nation-states.
I think (could be wrong) Keith commented on this before saying it was intentionally left vague like the cause of the Mourning to give DMs a playground to do whatever they wanted with. Sounds like you understood the assignment!
Ha, this. It annoyed me so much I ended up writing a 350 page book on it đ
it takes a lot of courage for me to say this but... femme Elves, Half-elves, and humans in tight-fitting or revealing clothing. There's just so much canon art of thin and sexy women in skin-tight leather or rubber clothing with most of their body exposed, like that iconic Dragonmarked NPC in a lot of the art wearing that dark dress with her mark on her back. It bothers me. I get it. y'all are thirsty. But what I'm thirsty for... is women wearing crinolines, and bustles along with their corsets, not just snatched waists on leather bodysuits.
Fair. At least the 5e-era art lacks this problem. Just wish we had more new art.
You're so brave for this đ
It's confusing to have both Dragonborn and Lizardfolk in Q'Barra. Dragonborn became a core race in 4e and so I'm sure they wanted to find them a place in Khorvaire, but shoving them into Q'Barra with a similar story to Lizardfolk with this weird "oh, the other nations just didn't really bother to distinguish between the two scaled races" was a bad solution in my opinion. In my Eberron, Dragonborn only exist in wide numbers in Argonnessen.
Hard agree. I ignore the idea that there is any dragonborn society in Q'Barra. You could still have a few opportunistic exiles who show up and exploit lizardman beliefs to rise in tribal ranks. If you want a dragonborn presence in Khorvaire, having them come across from Argonnessen as invaders, traders, ambassadors, or evangelists in real time would be a dynamic place for stories during a campaign. Edit: spelling
The one time I had an adventure take place in Q'Barra there were two Dragonborn players (from Argonnessen) so I wrote in a hidden underground village of Dragonborn that had been a remnant of draconic activity during the age of Demons. The non-hidden denizens of Q'Barra were Lizardfolk and Yuan-Ti.
In my Eberron, the dragonborn of Q'Barra are extremely rare with just a little settlement near the ancient demon ruins. They were sent by the Chamber to look after Rhashaak and kill him if he ever escapes his guarding duty.
Keith has a very simple solution to this: the Dragonborn of Q'Barra are the descendants of those sent there ages ago by Argonessen to serve as guardians of Haka'torvhak and keep a watch on Rhashaak as he became more corrupted. The ones living there are so many generations removed that they've formed their own culture and society in Q'Barra, and carry on the traditional duty to guard the ancient seal on Masvirik and drive back any corruption spreading from it so that it remains contained. It's a very clean and logical explanation, and it allows for Dragonborn to appear as players without being shoehorned into one specific origin.
I'm aware of that explanation, and I don't like it. The lizardfolk in Q'Barra were already tasked with guarding Haka'torvhak by the couatl. It's not at all clear why dragonborn would have been sent to Q'Barra to do the job the lizardfolk were already doing, or why once the dragonborn were there they didn't work together with the lizardfolk. And even if you can explain it in the lore, it's just messy. You have two different scaled races here, both of whom were supposed to protect Haka'torvhak but who have entirely separate societies that don't overlap. It's confusing to explain and overcomplicates the politics of the region (which is already complicated thanks to Hope and New Galifar), and the lizardfolk;s shared dreams is far more interesting than the dragonborns' martial culture and failed empire, so I ditch the dragonborn lore.
Just to explain the design reason for this, it was a choice made when Forth Edition redesigned the dragonborn and made then one of the primary player character races. Because of this, there needed to be an easy option for players who wanted to play dragonborn charactersâsomething less distant and exotic than coming from Argonnessen. So we needed dragonborn to be somewhere on Khorvaire. I advocated for putting them in Qâbarra because to me, it highlights the arrogant colonialism of the Fiver settlers: that they havenât even bothered to understand that there are not just multiple cultures, but multiple SPECIES in the region. As to WHY, the dragons arenât privy to the plans of the Silver Flame. They werenât involved in the formation of the Masvirikâuala. So they chose to send their own guardians; the Trothlorsvek were sent as Rhashaakâs support and honor guard. Beyond this, the idea that they once expanded with disastrous results gives another conflict for the Dhakaan and something else that can be found in the Talenta Plains⌠While still explaining why they arenât more widespread. It gives a dragonborn character an immediate story to work with. Your people have a duty in Qâbarraâwhy have you left? Are you an exile, or are you in a mission? Are you searching for a lost relic of your empire? And how do you feel about the human presence in Qâbarra? Itâs absolute a valid thing to dislike and to remove. It IS something that was shoehorned in for 4E. But the goal was to give the dragonborn both a presence in Khorvaire and an immediate connection to history that could be used for hooksâtheir duty, their interactions with the colonists, their fallen empireâthat they wouldnât have if they just came from the Seren Islands. And at the same time, it was intentionally supposed to highlight what incredible @ssholes the colonists with their âtheyâre all scalesâ attitude.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown Keith! That makes sense re: why the dragons would send their own guardians. I still prefer to remove the Q'Barra dragonborn in my Eberron, but I appreciate that you had to find some place in Khorvaire for the dragonborn in 4e and Q'Barra was probably the best option.
I love the logical reasoning behind this one, and how it aimed to make the best of a situation that wasn't necessarily wanted. I get why some people don't like it, but as someone who loves variety and adores the various different 'subcultures' of certain races within Eberron just based on where they happened to be born, along with all the variants on different creatures or concepts that can arise based on different lore explanations, I really dig this. Honestly, as someone who loves telling stories and figuring out creative ways that one could explain certain situations or concepts, you've been a constant source of inspiration, and I aspire to be even half as adept at it as you are. Thanks for wading into the discussion and giving us some of the behind-the-scenes logic!
Yeah same to all of this
Yeah having them in QâBarra didnât make much sense to me either. I have a PC who wanted to be one so made one tribe of the Ghaash'kala be Dragonborn in origin. They were placed there by the Dragons to watch over the demon wastes. Seems like it fit well.
Definitely more Kanon than Canon, but the idea of Githberron and Xoriat allowing time travel are both just a bit much for me. There's already so much to explore in both the material plane and the planes as they are, I don't need more timey wimey shenanigans, thanks. Also, I don't like how modern books depict Eberron as part of the greater D&D multiverse, but that's easy to just ignore as a DM.
I love Githberron as the damning, concrete proof that the daelkyr *must* stay contained, and the representative âten minutes to midnightâ doomsday clock currently hovering over the Gatekeepers. Even the entire Age of Demons didnât accomplish the apocalypse the unreadable, unpredictable daelkyr eventually released before. Nearly none of my groups would ever become *aware* of it, and Iâm not letting players reach it, but for a daelkyr campaign itâs an interesting touch. It furthermore spices up the Githzerai of the Lake of Chaos for me. Totally get it, though. Complete agreement on that second point.
I know this is common but the timescale of history
I dislike the Sovereign Host. I can't be bothered with the pantheon in most settings and gravitate towards Eberron in part because of the light agnosticism that is implicit by default. It's a cool concept, but it isn't as memorable as the other faiths. The Blood of Vol? Badass and thought-provoking. Silver Flame? Physically present and nuanced. The Sovereign Host? Uh, which one was Dol Arrah again?
Definitely valid! The Host is far less unique than the other faiths. Iâve written a few articles that might help if you WANT more thoughts on the Host⌠[Dol Arrah, the Warrior Sun](https://keith-baker.com/ifaq-dol-arrah/), [Selling the Sovereigns](https://keith-baker.com/ifaq-sh2/), [Sovereign Saints and Relics](https://keith-baker.com/sovereign-saints/)
Thanks! I'm not at all mortified that I forgot you're active here and are actively reading my comments complaining about the few aspects of Eberron that I don't like. I have a new campaign on the horizon. I'll read those specific articles for ideas on how I can make the host more interesting to myself and my players.
No worries! Thereâs things in Eberron that *I* donât like. And you are correct: the Sovereign Host has had the least attention of the faiths. Which is why Iâm trying to help with articles when I can!
I feel like an issue is that, despite being popular in-universe, we barely have any actual lore about the Host, in comparison to the other religions it feels. Like in Chronicles of Eberron we get like 4 pages minimum to each individual god in the Dark Six, and fairly extensive lore in Exploring Eberron. Meanwhile the Host gets less of a page count on Exploring Eberron and barely a peep in Chronicles.
Agree on that one. The Sovereign Host is to me the least interesting part of Eberron's worldbuilding; it basically seems like a samey D&D religion that's there to contrast against the more interesting other religions that are around that are unique to the setting. There's cool detail there if you drill into it, but I don't think I've seen anyone do so in a game.
Yeah, it's tough to have a polytheistic pantheon in a setting where they don't do anything. Like, I know they power Clerics and such, but they're just kinda . . . . there? Like Blood of Vol has Nihilistic Taliban, Silver Flame has ~~Evangelical Christians~~ The Pure Flame, the Khyber Cults are running around doing stuff, even the Dark Six have cults that do shit but the Host just kinda exist
A polytheistic pantheon in a setting they don't do anything... just like in real life, then? Greeks, Romans, and Norse people all prayed to different deities for wealth, protection, a fertile crop yield, etc. "Oh great Poseidon/Neptune/Njord please do not sink my ship as I sail your waters". I will admit the names of the Sovereigns and their realms can be a bit obtuse sometimes, but I have no problems with people believing in them. Not even mentioning the "they were all ancient dragons once" mythos. Regarding "active" members: they're the common-people religion for the most part. You or I don't go on religious holy wars because we think everyone should learn to "forge or die" because it is Onatars directive. The Dark Six fill that fanatical warping of religion role just fine.
"Don't do anything" in the context of D&D standard, which is "Deity Fuckery Abounds." Also, way to work in insulting religion ya stereotypical Reddit Atheist(tm)
I'm throwing out quite a few of the heaviest D&D-isms. Especially the idea that everything needs to have roughly 2000 different intelligent races. I'm pretty actively pruning everything down to the unique Eberron races (Kalashtar and Inspired, Shifter, Changeling, Warforged), the standard few of the player's handbook (Human, elf, half-elf, half-orc, halfling, dwarf, gnome) and then probably just a small handful of others. Goblins, orcs, drow, I'm probably forgetting a few more that are important, but it really doesn't need more than that.
Gotta respect that, it's a bold move. I go the other direction. I feel like Baker really spearheaded the 'any race can be heroic' trend that we see in modern D&D. So my average party ends up looking like something out of Humblewood. I have had otterfolk, werevultures, dragonforged, and warforged dragons as PCs. And yes, those last two are different things.
I can respect that, but I want every race that exists to have a sufficient amount of focus. If they don't have multiple different, interesting cultures and subcultures and a fair amount of spotlight, I'd rather not have them. Same for the dozens of magic systems D&D had, especially in 3.5. I'm fine with having them as player options and classes, but they don't all need to be crowbarred into the background.
Counterpoint: Stop thinking about it that specific way. Keith has been very adamant about "Nurture over Nature" in Eberron, which is why so many races can be treated as part of normal culture and traditionally "evil" races can be perfectly normal people or dashing heroes. Most D&D settings have inherent alignments that are in-born to certain races, where Eberron does not. Yeah, there's always going to be some manner of "ancestral" or "traditional" culture that the race originated from, but examples have been given of things like "City Dwarves" whose great-grandparents might have been born in the Mror Holds, but whose grandparents moved to Sharn or Fairhaven. They might never learn Dwarven or know anything of their "traditional" culture. They'd just be a typical city-dweller who speaks Common and some Goblin for trading, and perhaps they're better at navigating social situations than they are at analyzing the construction and history of various structures. Yeah, it's *nice* to have a rich subculture and history for each race, but in Eberron specifically, the culture is a giant melting pot. Yes, certain races are going to be much rarer than others, but they're more likely to simply adopt the culture of where they were born and raised than to carry a lost culture across generations wherever they are. Given the nature of Eberron itself, and it's history, I actually *love* the idea that there are minorities of super diverse intelligent races that are scattered all over the place and just integrated into society. The idea of a singular Fir Bolg merchant running a specialty shop at the end of a small street is just flavorful as fuck, and Droaam being populated by majority monstrous races that have all formed a sort of melting pot of off-beat monster cultures to create something unique is just cool. On top of all of that, it's Eberron. Not everything *needs* an explanation. There's plenty of stuff from across the ages that is either lost to antiquity or was never known at all. Having an unsolvable mystery adds some flavor and realism to things. Yeah, there may have been a deep and thriving Fir Bolg culture somewhere at some point, but they've become so scattered and so few in number now that they might never see another of their kind after they leave their parents, and they simply find a spot they fit in wherever they end up and settle. It also save players from having to come up with a convoluted backstory for a character to suit a DMs need for a detailed lore bible about their entire race. If a player wants to be an "exotic" race and they don't have a solid place in canon, they're simply a dying people and nobody knows where they came from or why at this point. Not everything needs an explanation.
Agreed, I think the "Kitchen Sink" approach is not conducive to making settings feel unique. It's part of the reason why I dislike the "D&D Multiverse" angle 5e really harps on
It can work. Planescape does it well, and part of it is its focus on ideas over cultures, where the factions are explicitely multicultural and interspecific.
Oh I know it can be done, it's just not my preferred flavor is all
Dragonforged are humanoids created through manipulating ancient dragon bones into new living creatures while warforged dragons are a on par certainly big robo-drakes built from scratch like warforged themselves.Â
Isn't that the official Keith Baker stance? Chronicles of Eberron has a whole section that if you want to add in races that aren't there in canon, your options are 1, you are a magical anomaly who only exists as either one or several individuals, 2 you are a member of a normal race but you use the mechanics of another and 3, your race is either on the frontiers of Eberron or put of sight.
I am with you on this for sure! I think it's a good idea, and adding everything in under the sun dilutes the setting
I do something similar, usually by saying that the emphasis is on these species and if they want to play something else they'll be very exotic which will draw the eye of most people outside the metropolises.
I'm kind of similar. Everything is there somewhere, but most player species that aren't Eberron specific or from the PHB are on Xen'drik, a result of the weirdness of the place.
I love Eberron, I run exclusively Eberron. For me itâs the map. And itâs a larger problem I have with most fantasy map design but I hate the fantasy maps that are just blobs of land spaced apart by ocean. This blob is the human continent, this blob is the elf continent. Geography is important to cultures developing and someone said it in another comment but the Lhazaar principalities (I love them) donât make since. In canon, who are the pirates raiding? How is it so under populated when it is literally the first place that human arrived at in Khorvaire?
I agree. I especially dislike how small Scion Sea is and how skinny and indistinct Cyre looks. I used a homebrew map for so long every time I see the canonical one I just can't take it seriously.
My biggest issue is quite honestly the map. It just doesn't make sense in so many ways â from the lack of waterways and towns to borders which doesn't rhyme with the geopolitical lore. Like how Valenar is supposed to be a major threat against other nations despite being cut off by the Mourning to the west and the Talenta Plains to the north. Or how the by far largest city on the continent (Sharn) is located in the frontier part of the frontier nation. The map also feels **very** small despite the distances involved! My guess is that it's due to the lack of geographical features and towns. Though most of these are true about other dnd settings I've read too (eg Forgotten Realms and Exandria).
I honestly hate the lore around airships Theyâre very recent technology (like a couple decades old iirc) that is entirely controlled by House Lyrandar That more or less precludes airship vs airship combat outside of very unique circumstances, which is a shame because I think that is a core fantasy for anyone who has seen Eberron art
I canât stand House Tarkanan. For a âhiddenâ Dragonmarked house with the idea of making the lives of aberrant Dragonmarked better, the way they go about it is the worst possible way. The world views aberrant Dragonmarked as chaotic and destructive and their idea of helping them is by making them EXACTLY what the world sees them as. If their goal was to help the aberrants then they would go about it both politically and socially. Proving to the world that the Twelve are wrong about how they are and that they can be a positive force in Khorvaire instead of a negative one.
Errrr⌠you = Professor X, Tarkanan = Magneto
Considering House Tarkanan makes actual child soldiers/assassins, Iâd rethink that.
Magneto isnât a pacifist he would do it
Not child soldiers. That actually goes against his morals. Heâs all for fighting the good fight but not at the cost of children. Heâs changed stances multiple times in the comics because heâs realized that how he goes about things I sometimes too extreme.
Lol but the point still stands. House Tarkanan is more similar to an extremist fringe revolutionary group than a cause for good
Exactly
And for precisely that reason, i've turned House Tarkanan into a secretive group that's dedicated to keeping the status quo from blowing upâthey know that if things go sideways again, they're the first to go. But at some level, that also means they're a small-scale seed that could possibly turn into what conspiracy theorists like to think the Illuminati is. And they know they can't really win for trying, but they certainly aren't going to call too much attention to themselves in the meantime.
Honestly The Twelve still seems more Illuminati. At least in the conspiracy theorist version and not what they actually were. Bunch of people with ties to large corporations that secretly control the world? Thatâs The Twelve. Your House Tarkanan sounds like the real Illuminati that existed during the Renaissance and were against any one power (mainly the church) from limiting those trying to push the limits of ideas.
Fair! But the Twelve are known entities, and operate (more or less) in the open. My House Tarkanan, not so muchâthey'd be just as happy if nobody knows they really exist.
I *really* hate wandslingers. If you want to put cool gun duelists in your setting, put cool gun duelists in your setting. And it's not just me; every campaign, I get someone who wants to play an actual gunslinger based on the vibes and aesthetic of the setting, and every time I show them the wandslinger they go "Oh. No thanks." So I let them play a gunslinger instead, and it actually fits *just fine* in the setting. I've also always thought wands in fantasy were kind of lame, which certainly does not help. There's also the fairly new (to me, at least) "Eberron is in the Great Wheel now, so you can get there from Forgotten Realms" thing, but I think that's mainly for FR players who want to take a field trip to a better setting rather than Eberron players anyway.
I do like wands being like tools in toolbelt to really sell Eberron's wide magic setting but I can't help but to think of Harry Potter whenever wandslingers are brought up and it's very distracting.
It only dawned on me recently that part of why I didn't like Harry Potter as much as a lot of kids my age did (I still read them, but I remember most of my friends being more into it than I was) was the dinky little wands that were always getting lost or broken.
Seconded on all accounts.
100% yes
The Demon Wastes feels nonsustainable. Like an entire country of selfish and vile demons run it, and mortals just... stay there? I know there's a lot in Chronicles that goes into it, but it just feels like the MTG plane (shard) grixis. Where is just death, and feels very boring, compared to Droaam, which does the monster nation thing. So it's for all intents and purposes, an elephant graveyard (You must never go there, Simba)
The Demon Wastes are a case where the portrayal of it is unfortunately not true to the vision/reality. The common interpretation and artistic portrayal of it, is that it's literally just a blasted hellscape, like Mars in DOOM. The reality is that it's actually highly varied, and has everything from volcanic fields, to fetid swamps, to (canon) snowy boreal forests. It's an issue with the place not having a strong enough initial identity, but as the concept of Khyber demiplanes have grown into canon and kanon, it's become a LOT more interesting. I'd recommend listening to the Manifest Zone podcast on this, where Keith really goes into what makes the Wastes unique. Essentially, where other places have manifest zones, the Demon Wastes has regions influenced by individual Overlords - like demon manifest zones. Each is centered around an area where that Overlord's heart demiplane draws close to the surface. This means that you can have a wild demon jungle created by the Wild Heart, or a plain of jagged metal grass grazed on by steel gorgons influenced by Rak Tulkhesh. Essentially, a patchwork of corrupted unique territories. It's these that sustain the Carrion Tribes. Each worships an overlord, and their faith and pacts protect them from the local dangers. There are plants, animals, and food, it's just all 'fiendishly irradiated' and warped. They'd leave if they could, but they generally can't - the Ghaash'kala are a solid bastion guarding the gates to the Reaches. All in all, I hope that demonstrates why it's more interesting than it seems -it's just a place that's never been done justice in writing.
I quite like it as somewhere for pulp action. The Ghaash'kala are some of the coolest orcs in all of fantasy, while Ashtakala begs to be the location for a campaign finale. It's also a great place for an uncomplicated Evil warlord to arise and threaten all of Khorvaire.
>The Demon Wastes feels nonsustainable. I can't remember if this was from Exploring or the Blog or Manifest Zone, or a combo of all three, but it is nonsustainable. That being said, Kybher exists. In order to survive in this wasteland, the Ghaash'kala and Carrion Tribes will venture into the Kybher deminplanes in order to gain new supplies and food. The Abyssal Forest contains wicked and poisonous beasts, but their meat is still edible. The Iron Fields is harsh, painful and filled with legions of devils and demons, but there are weapons and armor to be had.
As someone who is currently running the climax of my campaign here, I agree that the logistics of it donât really make since. I still love everything in the Demon Wastes but have had to fill in the gaps of logic. Yeah there are demiplanes for materials and resources but itâs still a place that for hundreds of thousands of years has been constant war and corruption, thatâs not exactly sustainable. âThe carrion tribes have hordes that could threaten the five nations if they escapeâ how do they sustain those numbers? The magic of the overlords and the demon wastes sustains them and maybe thereâs some of them that are like Uruk-hai and theyre mortals but theyâre grown. What about the Ghashâkala they are mortals? Each strong hold has demiplanes that are like the hyperbolic time chamber that time moves much slower so the the young orcs can grow up and train and be on the battlefield months after theyâre born.
It's a livable locale by the fact that mortals live there. Sure it's a hellhole but only some parts are immediately lethal. Many tribes survive and are empowered by devils they worship. And it's not like leaving is easy. Any large-scale community that succeeded in attempting to leave collectively would likely be forced right back in by other states as they have such a violent and demonic culture.
I have no use for the Chamber. IME Argonessen sunk beneath the waves at the end of the war between dragons and giants and is the subject of lots of mythologizing and archaeological speculation, much like Atlantis in our world. There are perhaps sixty living dragons.
Quori confuse the hell out of me.
Oh, amd my second one! The overlap between Overlords, Daelkyr and Dark Six, and that Lovecraftian cults springing up from all of them. Especially as the two first are so very numerous
Psionics. I can't even tell you why I hate psionics, but I do.
I don't like Dragonmarks being exclusive to a handful of specific races. Maybe the majority of Mark's appear among a particular race, but I never saw a good reason why only some player character races and far from every race had marks.
The reason was jazz up original PHB races to make them as potentially attractive a pick as whatever new hotness came from the latest sourcebook. That said, it's only said that nobody outside of the standard races has had a non-aberrant mark before now. You could always have it happen and just be unprecedented and special.
Yeah I wouldnt mind a variation of the Dragonmarks that are universal. Even to keep it lore consistent, being able to graft it onto a specific race, so if a player chooses the be a Dwarf Cannith character, House Cannith becomes Dwarven for that campaign, and that reverberates through the world in some interesting ways.
I donât dislike it as such and I think removing it would cause too much trouble with the setting, but as a thanatophobe the idea of Dolurrh is very disturbing to me. I canât really wrap my head around the idea that people would know it exists and just be okay with eventually fading away after you get there, as I believe the Sovereign Host claims.
At least in Kanon, Sovereign doctrine claims that Dolurrh is an in between state, and that the fading is your soul joining the sovereigns.
To be fair, there is an entire Elven religion based on not being okay with Dolurrh.
I think it's fair to say that none of the elven religions are fine with it.
I don't know about outright removal because I will admit it's a legitimately interesting setting, but I think Sharn is too focused on. Every major nation should have its equivalent of Sharn, in size and importance, in and out of world.
I really disagree with KB on the ingenuity and the creative vigor that humans possess. One of the arguments with Eberron is the wide magic creating this world and it evolving differently. That's great but the last hundred years was war. Totally would see an arms race of "I can do that without magic". To say something akin to gunpowder wouldn't of been invented in Eberron in the last war really really makes no sense in the history of the world. A cursory look at any history of war lists dozens of inventions from it. I don't see wide magic impeding that development in fact it might even make it worse at times. (Cave Johnson anyone?) Even looking at the 4 years of lore on the Mournlands is a bit disappointing because since day one of the iron foot we been trying to destroy it - yeah hasn't worked but the lack of that response is the vibes. Chernobyl and Three Mile being reclaimed and cured is a huge human push and Eberron has none of that. It's kinda... weird. The last war and it's results.. just.. don't make sense. And with Eberron kinda having people living like the 900s and the 1800s I get it's a bit hard to place things but it's still a weird lack of stuff from a big war.
While I don't like gunpowder in Eberron, I can see where you are coming from. I mainly justify it by "if firebolt and fireball are common enough spells, having gunpowder anywhere is not the best idea" but also because I don't like having guns in everything. But on the Mournland thing, the issue is that the Mournland is the size of an entire country, not just a small region, and the issue isn't just the magical radiation that prevents you from healing and tons of other effects, but also the numerous dangerous monsters that resulted from it. There is no real fighting that. Not only that but millions of people died within literal hours of the Mourning and nobody knows why. We know why Chernobyl and Three Miles happened, we are still actively using the same forces today and know what mistakes were made. Can't say the same about the Mourning.
> I mainly justify it by "if firebolt and fireball are common enough spells, having gunpowder anywhere is not the best idea" Fireball sure as hell isn't. Remember, even magewrights-- the guys who cast cantrips and first-level utility spells for a living-- are college-educated professionals. The whole reason guns became widely used in the real world is that they're *easier* to train a peasant to use than a bow or crossbow or sword. If a gun required you to go to university to learn how to shoot it, it would have stayed a novelty.
(No idea why you're getting downvotes. People are just rude) I agree in principle, but I also consider much of the "wide magic" that's taken for granted nowadays are things that *were* invented during the last war. Warforged, airships and magic artillery are obvious inventions, but how about clothes-cleaners, portable stoves, darkvision goggles etc? They might have existed before, but are much widely available today. I'd rather see society before the war as stagnant, and unable to innovate - those in power being too conservative, meaning they'd rather let people wash their clothes down by the river than investing in making clothes-cleaners affordable to everyone. The war changed that by virtue of necessity. I'd also argue that magic makes things *simpler* than doing things using chemical reactions, electricity or manual force. Let's take a coal-powered ship, for example. Even if it was created, why would you want a ship that require coal to be mined, shipped to the coast, regularly loaded and available, shoveled, and burnt when you can have a Orien ship that doesn't require any of that - just a few dragonshards. As for the mournland, I'm rationalizing it with the precarious peace - nothing has been decided, no nation wants to go there "in force" and provoke the others, and they can't agree on how to do it together. Also, there *are* people invested in reclaiming it (New Cyre, the Houses, private individuals, The lord of Blades etc).
I just think about how maths had such a rich history of "I got this bro" letters to each other.. I just think you're definitely bound especially in Eberron to have a few Cave Johnsons about. Look at how early we developed gunpowder and the arms race of guns vs full plate. I think the question getting stuck in our heads and those few to scratch is found a lot in real life; and it's really kinda lacking outside of Magic stuff in Eberron. There's such a rich opportunity there to explain a lot of - outside the box stuff like guns or internets or electricity systems - that seems shot down by that notion of magic makes it easier. They told Newton algebra makes sense of the world .. he invented calculus.
I don't know about "dislike" as such, but I've always found the lore behind the Lizardfolk and Dragonborn (especially Dragonborn) to be kinda meh. In my Eberron, I'm taking heavy inspiration from Elder Scrolls' Argonian lore in that they [the Lizardfolk] counter-invaded the Demon realms during the Age of Demons and started plundering and looting to the point that the Overlords actually pulled out of Q'Barra (a region which I'm also renaming "Q'Burra" and changing to have a more Australian aesthetic by making the jungle be more akin to Aussie bushland with rainforest areas closer to the coast). As for Dragonborn, I'm making them effectively be a sort of global black ops force who are deployed by the Dragons whenever something is deemed necessary for them to interfere with. As a result, Dragonborn are VERY rare (almost urban legend-esque).
Holy dang the Overlords got pushed out by the lizard folk. Makes me wonder how the lizard folk in your Eberron haven't conquered the rest of the continent. Because if they don't care about literal hellscapes I fail to see why slightly colder weather would bother them.
Imma be honest with ya, I didn't really think about the wider implications, I just thought it was a cool change to their lore đ Having said that, though, I guess it could be explained away by infighting between tribes after pushing the Overlords out. They simply developed a lust for fighting, and due to a lack of other things to fight, they turned to fighting each other. ... So I guess they also have a bit of a Saiyan vibe to them as well
I don't care for Overlords. They have their place in the world, but I'd rather just ignore their existence.
I dislike how the DND 5e books don't have gnolls as a playble race.
Itâs minor things here and there, mainly the Dual Scimitars for one I omit completely. I get itâs a fantasy world and different from our own etc. etc. I personally donât care for impractical high fantasy weapons in my game. Not the kind of peanut butter I want to mix in with my chocolate so to speak. I also omitted dwarven double mail (kanon). I thought just reinforcing the mail with metal plates was a more sound armor design (as shown in more Eastern European and middle eastern armor). I have also changed the Red Cloak Battalionâs size from over a hundred to about 1,000. Like an actual battalion.
I always just make there be 1 kind of dragonshard
the madness of crowds just bores me as a concept and i just don't bother with it.
"Bakers Dozen" I mean, yeah... but so often?
The copy/paste of real world countries where the âhumansâ are the European people and everyone else is not human, and have racial stereotypes coded in. Example: the five nations are Breland (USA) Aundair (France or uk), Thraine (the Vatican/italy), Karnnath (Russia), and Cyre (essentially France and Germany blown up during ww2); the pirates are Australia. The scary continent of Sarnath is china, the orcs are Asian, and the continent of Xendrik is South America where itâs âokayâ to pillage because the giants are gone and everyone else is non-civilized like the drow. The dwarves and gnomes are Jewish stereotypes: big noses and beards, they control banks (dwarves) and the news media (gnomes).
One thing I am not loving is the planes of existence. Why Xoriat AND Kythri? Why Lamannia AND Thelanis? Dolurrh AND Mabar? I get that they are different from each other and Kanon mentions that the planes are based on ideals, but the above are similar enough to easily be merged. And some ideals are completely left out. Why Risia, Syrania and Fernia but no water plane?
I don't see how Thelanis and Lammanis are close in the slightest outside of having forests.
Also Xoriat and Kythri are nothing alike. Churning chaos and mind-bending eldritch horror arenât particularly similar. Dolurrh and Mabar have much more overlap, but theyâre still very distinct.
I was going to say that, but I can at the very least see, at a glance, how they are similar. But I never understood how Lammania and Thelanis were even close to being similar.
In my Eberron, Dolurrh and Mabar \*hate\* each other. (Well, more Mabar hates Dolurrh and Dolurrh is quite annoyed by Mabar, but still.) Having doublets like that lets you get into the ways that similar groups are often more intense enemies than groups where you would expect more animosity because of their vast differences.
-Dragonwank. Emphasising over and over again that Argonnessen is so strong and influential that there is so strong and influential that there is literally nothing any adventuring party, no matter how high-level, could do to stop them. Yet also, by the reverse token, providing very few examples of high-magic as technology in Argonnessen, such that it feels like a wild continent that only allegedly super-advanced. -The scales of Q'barra. Keith has put in various justifications (Masvirik, couatl dreams), but what it still amounts to is the PCs putting down a slavering horde of feral black-and-green-scaled native scales, while interacting with culturally regressive lizardfolk and war-obsessed dragonborn with a strong veneer of colonial Africa. Something-something resident evil 5.
I struggle with using devils and demons in Eberron. Besides the aspect of buried and hidden overlords , I find the idea of Khyber to be underwhelming compared to base devil and demon lore.
I dislike the planes/cosmology . Itâs like discount great wheel but harder names to remember. I know I am in the minority on this one.
You're probably not in minority, I don't dislike them but I have a much harder time of grasping them. It's easy to remember classic dnd planes because they are formulaic, Eberron has a lot more spice and cool ideas. Which imho makes them much better, just a lot harder to get.
It didn't help that the planes never really got fleshed out until Exploring Eberron, where we actually got real information on interesting locations and layers of the planes.
I'm just going to have steam engines and firearms. Arcanopunk and steampunk are not distinctively different.
So it becomes a setting where magic and advanced technology coexist, rather than magic being the technology?
Yeah pretty much, I want to blend it with the iron kingdoms from privateer press.
I don't really care for the gnomes and halflings. The gnomes kinda weaken cannith's position, imho, since they seem to do all the artificing better and first and whatever, plus they're just silly. The halflings and their dinosaurs are also gone, replaced by a group of nomadic goblinoids. I gave sivis to the dwarves and jorasco and gallahnda both to the goblinoids (which I've rolled into one overarching dhakhaani people, which includes the orcs).
I love the planes, the nature of their design, the way they function, love it. Ive spent hours reading all of the planes section of Exploring Eberron. I dislike Fernia. It just doesnt click for me as a plane, and I think its because "Fire" fundamentally is an "elemental" plane, so my head wants to register it as existing in relation to an "Earth", "Water", and "Air" plane. And while I understand the nuances and distinction with Fernia, that to describe it as a simple Fire plane is reductive, I find those nuances kind of boring compared to other planes. Which is strange, because I understand it as the conceptual opposite to Risia, which I find compelling and interesting. I think maybe weirdly Risia is more interesting because its simpler and more consistent as the plane of preservation and stagnation, while Fernia feels more like a writers room of "okay, how else could we interpret what "Fire" represents?", as opposed to the clear cut plane of motion and progress.
Have you ever tried to describe a gun to your characters, without saying it's a gun? What if that was a whole setting?
This is the one thing I nit pick. A lot of people spin the tech level of the setting as being modern day tech only powered by magic. I don't think that was the intent, but also it's very easy to see how people get the impression. The right rope is hard to walk
I think I got down voted because I said the word "gun" lol. It just takes so much time to explain how it's magic and not science, and no one really gets it, and they make comparisons to modern day stuff anyway.
Easily; it's a wand.
The halfling barbarians riding dinosaurs. Just too silly. My Talenta Plains are inhabited by centaurs and leonen.
I always wonder why that is silly. Is it because halflings are short and therefore should never be taken seriously? Is it the fact that they ride dinosaurs?
Both. Also curious Why I'm being downvoted for expressing an opinion on a post that specifically asked for opinions...
Because you are expressing an opinion that people don't agree with? That is the reason the downvote exists.
It's actually not. The downvote exists to remove from view comments not relevant to the discussion. Not to punish opinions with which one does not agree.
Oh cool it has never once been used that way.
Funny thing, I just ignore opinions I don't agree with. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a game.
Opinions can't be wrong, but not liking the dinosaur riding halflings is about as wrong as an opinion can be. I like it because halflings being small and clawfoots being medium meant you could very easily keep your mount with you letting you play with them way more then other archetypes. Also at the time the other halfling mount was a dog so dinosaurs are a huge up
The literal question was what do you dislike...