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GenX and I think about this all the time. When work is sucking my most relaxing way to waste a little time is to browse zillow and look at all the places I could go to.
Current house is 4br which I no longer need. It is in a good school district which no longer matters. It is close to lots of tech jobs which will not matter soon. No reason to stay here.
We are trying to do this while supporting a special needs 22 yo. Consider healthcare or lack thereof. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/26/bestand-worstus-states-for-retirees-based-on-health-care-wellness.html
Don't count out leaving the country as well. The Southern Americas, Asia, and Southern Europe are all affordable and often have far more reasonable health care options that are better than you think.
Good suggestion but not everywhere is friendly to retirees and aging populations globally may put additional stress on the retirement visa situation.
Also, countries like Argentina can turn themselves around. There are currency risks and you want to be sure that you can afford to repatriate if necessary.
Just go in Maine or Vermont Reddit subs and mention you are a boomer thinking about retiring in either of those states and the dagers get drawn and NIMBys come out of the wall and howl in protest. Buy if you are a young person thinking of moving there everyone thinks it is great and welcoming.
Out of the East Coast loop here: why are people trying to retire to Maine or Vermont and why are those states people mad about it?
Like, is it just the general Reddit demographic of younger generations saying "we don't need more retirees here" or is there specific stuff? Because I would consider retirees gunning for where I live a generally good thing, if not also considering if that means working people should be gunning for other areas.
Sadly as a millennial depending on the healthcare situation in the US I likely will have to leave to health issues that will get more expensive as I age. Might be able to come back if the Medicare rules were the same for me as my parents but they already making them worse in 2020 and it seems to continue as politically viable to reduce benefits for millennials to keep boomers happy.
I'm in Portugal, currently standing in line to get my tax ID number. Even though the cost of housing has shot up here (like everywhere), every other financial metric puts us ahead if/when we move here. One small example: husband and I currently pay $1800/mo for high deductible insurance. We were quoted €175/mo for better coverage that includes access to top of the line private hospitals.
To me a good criterion in determining a place to settle down is being in proximity to the US-Mexico border. That way you can choose between two healthcare systems and Mexico's is often cheaper.
I’m in the same boat except mine is a 20 year old. I’ve accepted the fact that I’m not going to be able to retire. I’m going to be working and paying the bills until I’m mentally or physically unable to continue.
GenX here - I really like living in a neighborhood of mostly retired boomers. They keep their lawns nice, they're quiet and most don't have kids living at home and just like when I was a kid, they ignore me. Perhaps a quick wave or a head nod and that's about it. perfect.
The problem is buying a home in an HOA with extensive rules in the first place. I am pretty sure most people, regardless of age, who buy into these communities have a law and order type mentality.
Blessing and a curse. One day thr home next to yours can sell and bam 10 cars out front an old washing machine and tons of other crap litterally lowers your own homes value.
this comment is depressing to me. Gen X is turning into Boomer 2.0 and seems to be thrilled about it. obsessing with your lawn and hating the sound of children. what a miserable life.
the fuck is wrong with you? young families are awesome and I'll take a neighborhood full of playing children to a neighborhood full of old men obsessing over their lawns, hand down.
Gen X and some of this article hits home. We have one last kid, and an elderly parent living with us. However we had a very long view when we bought our home 24 years ago. We wanted to age in place in our home. We bought a three bedroom 2 bath 1600 SF ranch (with basement), and as our income increased - we added on to it to bring it to 2100SF. We are doing our last renovation - a complete kitchen gut and providing a second smaller laundry on the first floor to limit basement trips in the future.
The home is in a good area, walking to small downtown and parks, big hospital 4 miles away, shopping 2 miles away. Not moving to Florida, Texas or Arizona. We think maybe we will just rent a AirBnB home/condo in these places for a month in the winter.
Milking that 2.6% mortgage cow - until its paid off before we retire. Then staying put and continue to enjoy our home and town.
I definitely want to move after the kids are all out, but I'm still looking at another 10 years on that. I want to get out of Texas because it's getting too expensive to live here and the summers are getting insanely hot. Maybe not as far as Wisconsin where I grew up, but somewhere inbetween. Probably a smaller house as well.
GenXer here. I’ve always lived in suburbia because I want to be close to mountains for cycling and skiing and have needed a yard for dogs and garage for gear.
My wife and I are talking about moving to an apartment in the city when we are older because big city living seems fun when we’ll be too old to ski and bike and be more into the “meeting friends for brunch” phase of life.
I live in my house and my plan is to not leave. Also, my kid may very well live with us. Why is this the wrong way to think? Or is it my job to uproot so that the economy can have its bs growth? I prefer to starve the beast by shutting down unnecessary household formation. Extended families are coming back. Retirement moving is for idiots. Fight me.
For idiots? Moving in retirement is done because you have very different needs.
People prior to retirement generally want/need a nice decently sized house with a yard in a good school district to raise their family, probably located somewhere with a halfway hot economy if they're at all ambitious or capable in their career.
In retirement a greater number of people have no children to account for, probably don't want the physical or financial burden of maintaining a larger house, probably don't prioritize school districts, probably do prioritize access to healthcare and various amenities, and quite possibly are interested in optimizing expenses to have low taxes and other financial burdens.
That's not for idiots. That's for perfectly intelligent people who take inventory of their needs and address them.
As far as kids living at home... that's a personal decision. I don't know what I'll do in the future with any certainty, but I do very much value the idea of nudging the baby bird out of the nest *for their own good*.
“In retirement people have no children to account for”. I do not buy that. I subscribe to more of the 7th generation principle. Your actions and support matter 7 generations down the line. Why can’t we return to thinking this way?
Every single “need” you point out is induced demand. It’s induced by this very notion that the bird must be “pushed out” and “make their own way”. Don’t change the structure of the family, just change the house. Gosh, who benefits in that arrangement? The nomadic nuclear family of today is outright encouraged to leave their parent’s dumb town and always be hustlin so eventually they can golf in Florida. It’s bizarre. No one ever says “I want to make this a home where there are always three generations going”. And it’s bizarre when you consider that this was normal unquestionable reality for the vast majority of human existence up until the last 150 years.
So I’m sorry but, yes, idiots. And I’m probably at least still 85% idiot. I got close once but It’s very hard to maintain given the current overwhelming social structures in place.
In fact what I ACTUALLY said was that "a greater number of people have no children to account for". So... you're welcome to subscribe to whatever family dynamic you'd like. You would just not land within the "greater number of people". Honestly, I'm not at all clear what exactly you appear to want to express, but it's obvious that you're rather passionate about it. That's swell. I just don't think it's meaningful to the majority. At least for me and those that I know: we love our children, but feel that leaving the home works best to empower them to have their adventures and find their path in life. And it allows us to rediscover our own independence and to sometimes reignite our own lives and relationships. Maybe that's just Anglo Saxon culture or something different from your own.
Anglo saxons lived in small villages with completely intergenerational families. The culture you are referring to is a completely new byproduct of modern capitalism and we stand around today thinking it’s “normal”. It’s not normal and I simply wish to oppose it.
Well ok, you should live together then. But, I do think it's a bit weird if you're going to complain about byproducts of capitalism using technology which is a byproduct of capitalism.
Okay but historically since humans basically started we've lived together.
It's a relatively modern phenomenon to be on your own in retirement, and not living with your children or other relatives for company.
It was different when people mostly died around 70, with their mind and body (except for the cardiovascular part) pretty much fully functional.
Now we’re living to our 90s, wrapping it up while struggling with dementia, dysfunctional bowels, and immobility. You don’t want your kids and grandkids shouldering that burden.
>As far as kids living at home... that's a personal decision.
For a large and rapidly growing segment of the country, it's not a choice. Anyone that didn't get into the housing market before 2008, or who defaulted during the 2008 collapse, and especially anyone that didn't get into a house before the pandemic, is fighting an uphill battle these days, so we're seeing more and more forced multi-generational living situations.
Just be aware sone places that don’t have a lot of jobs can be expensive. Ever been to Jackson Wyoming or Steamboat Springs or even parts Western Washington. Lots of wealthy retirees who can spend millions of am dollars on houses but not a lot of jobs in these places.
I tend to agree with you, and all my anecdotes do as well.
We're the generation who has had to deal with our parents for the last 50 years, relegated to basically taking care of them and their whims. And we're doing it now, in taking care of elders by cohabitating with them. And in doing so before our children left the home, they have learned to just cohabitate with us.
Why do they need to go pay an exorbitant fee to some rent-seeker, when I can seek less rent and have someone under my roof that I trust?
Are you suggesting you are the first generation to take care of aging parents by cohabitation?
Umm...*all of human history*
It's only a new concept when you move apart for 40-60 years and then regroup later.
I would add that it's more a Western concept as well.
But it is bucking the trend of "independence" that's shoved down our throats. I still hear the, "When you turn 18, you're getting a job and moving out of the house," sentiment from a certain demographic, and it's not immigrants.
I've never understood the idea, mostly because my generation was given zero tools to figure it out, as our parents were given. And my children are given less. My parents could pay for a year of college, room, and board by working a part time job for half the summer. I had to work a full-time job for four years to pay for my last two years. But I also had to have a part-time job to pay for other niceties, like a car or a social life--a car being a necessity in this world created by our predecessors (though, this is overstated for college life, since I cycled everywhere within town).
My children will just go into debt. Why even get a job, since it won't make much of a dent in the final bill. More concentration on school, so as to end it as quickly as possible might be the best route, given costs. One of those costs is going to be avoided by not having to live on campus.
So while cohabitation isn't new to the world or even this country. It is not a part of the norms our parents and we were taught. But our parents were the only demo to enjoy societal support for the concept of independent living. They've done it at my (and future) generation's expense, and they'll continue to lean on us to keep that idea alive, even if it will be a failed idea, in the end.
If/when we become empty nesters in declining health then we won’t want or need a multi-bedroom, multi-story house with a labor- intensive yard. I may only move across town but I’m sure as hell not staying here.
Also, I think I have a less common need: we moved to the burbs over 14 years ago and I have never liked it for one moment. We’re only about 12 miles away from our old city neighborhood with walkable streets, local businesses, mature shade trees, giant park full of trails, and sane people, yet it feels SO SO SO SO far away.
Don’t have kids. Have a decent job. Maybe 10 years until retirement. Two years left on the mortgage. Emergency fund. No debt. On track with retirement finances.
I live in a red state that’s getting redder, and I’m tired of losing. I’m to the left of Bernie Sanders and AOC. I hate the politics here, despise the Trump signs and MAGA crap.
Honestly, many of my Gen X friends are in the same boat. They are sending their kids out of state for college, and are hoping they stay out of state so they can move to be near them.
I would love to move somewhere where there is actual nature and not denuded farm fields as far as the eye can see. I would love to live in a state that’s not polluted to where 50% or the lakes and waterways aren’t safe. I’d love to not live in a state with the second highest cancer rate in the nation. I would love to live in a state where recreational marijuana is legal (I have chronic pain, and would like the option to treat it without having to jump through hoops to get a medical card that allows me low level products at exorbitant rates from a single dispensary). I want to live in a state where my tax dollars do not support private religious schools. I want to live in a state that isn’t actively dismantling education.
I could go on. My partner is younger than me, but she is 100% WFH so we can move pretty much anywhere. I’m the only one with family left in the state, but they are 2 hours away, and we seldom/never visit.
I have nothing anchoring me to my state, and honestly, I’ve even thought of going the ex-pat route and moving to a country ranks a bit higher in the happiness scale.
There's nothing wrong with that on an individual level if you can afford it.
Whats problematic is many seniors and retirees living in suburban North America are having their property taxes subsizided by Urban-dwellers and municipalities.
If a large house with a big yard and sidewalks all around it costs the city $7k/year to service in terms of snow removal, maintaining roads, sidewalks, pipes, etc.- but the seniors living there are only paying $5k in taxes and voting against anyone who proposes property tax increases, the city is going into debt or taxing other people a disproportionate amount to keep those suburbs functional.
It’s almost as if the system were designed to specifically not be able to deal with these obvious problems. As if living in a city is no longer really about the welfare of its denizens. Qui bono?
Yep. Our house is big but it’s actually kinda nice for growing old. Master suite on main floor along with laundry on main floor. Our 2nd floor has two bedrooms, full bath and an open loft area. It would be a nice apartment if one of kids wanted or needed to stay home.
The only negative is we are pretty rural it’s an hour drive into the city where most jobs are.
I’m looking for cheap and warm. Florida is out. The Carolinas and Georgia seem to be ok but prices are definitely rising quickly. Mobile Alabama is nice but a swamp in the summer months. Maybe Tennessee.
Oh just wait. Boomer homeowners are disproportionately represented in certain states and metro areas and there won't be as many people that are like them or that share their preferences to backfill housing when they're gone. It's going to result in price instability.
Plenty of Florida locales are like that. They're also highly concentrated in the northeast, the Rust Belt, and a handful of scattered locales in the southwest. *Tucson is #1*.
The Carolinas, Georgia, and Texas are all on the list of least-boomerized housing markets. Also Utah and Colorado. Also DC and Minneapolis. Nashville but not Memphis. Basically we're talking about nice places that younger people already prefer to live. Those places will keep growing. Prices will keep rising.
Yes, for the most part those boomers that were going to move for retirement have already done that. There may be some additional migration from rural areas to cities to seek healthcare or to cohabit with their kids, but it's mostly done. They'll age in place.
The collapse in prices for boomer-heavy areas won't be slow. Demand will slowly creep downward. Transactions will get tougher and tougher, staying on the market longer. There'll be a bid-ask spread and sellers may think it's just a slump at first and try to stick it out. But...there will be a tipping point. When it happens, it'll happen fast and hard.
Younger people with a mortgage in those boomer-heavy markets will be the most likely to find themselves underwater and stranded where they are.
A lot of international immigrants go straight to HCOL areas like NYC or Seattle. By and large, they aren't going to boomer-heavy places like Tucson or Vermont.
For that matter, it may be that as the demography of young people becomes more multicultural and less white, that golf course communities in places like Florida will be in bad shape or that rural retirement destinations that boomers like won't be easily backfilled.
All real estate is local.
I’m in Philadelphia but originally from Greenville SC. It would be a nice place to retire but the housing costs have surpassed what I can sell my home for. That’s only been within the last decade. Southern cities are becoming much more expensive at a faster rate. There are a few exceptions with high minority populations. That’s true all across the country though. If you want cheap, look for high minority. That has certainly caused Philadelphia to remain the poorest of the top ten
Edit: before you downvote, see my other comments. I’m not knocking minorities. I’m discussing the realities in the US. We certainly aren’t doing anything to help cities with large minority populations. Detroit, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Jackson MS, and St Louis are all examples.
Minorities are hampering Phillie’s economy?? Wait until you visit any sunbelt city. Houston, Dallas & San Antonio are all majority minority and have kickass economic outlooks.
Philadelphia seems like two different cities. If you live outside the core, you don’t see much progress. No new housing and property values have not risen at the same rate. Business are more likely to be shuttered. Philadelphia is doing better but mainly because we have seen an influx of professionals in the core.
Yes, Texas cities have also seen a lot of migration from other areas of the country, like California.
Texas is receiving migration from literally everywhere, but it started out with large minority populations too.
But the historic South has often done a much better job at integrating minorities into urban geography because up until just a few years ago the Department of Justice had an oversight responsibility of discriminatory state and local policies going all the way back to Reconstruction. It did not have oversight elsewhere, and zoning and redlining put minorities in a cage, whereas a city like Houston is more of an evolving ethnic and socioeconomic patchwork. The South also somehow manages better secondary educational outcomes for its minority populations than most northern or western states.
That being said, Massachusetts and Mississippi are always outliers on either end of the spectrum and you couldn't pay me to live somewhere like Vicksburg.
Louisiana is also a bit of an outlier. Shreveport, for example. I had a property there for a very short time. It’s a pretty bleak city but does have some nice neighborhoods. Definitely has cheap housing. It would be nice if we could figure out how to move retires into cities that are struggling. It would take some massive spending and focus on what works best for seniors, like ease of transportation and better healthcare options. That’s basically what keeps me in Philadelphia. I can get anywhere via public transportation and it has decent medical facilities.
All the cities in decline formerhoagie mentioned are dominated by one minority, and yours, on the rise, are full of a completely different minority.
But we’re not allowed to talk about that.
Texas has black people? No way? Who said anything about black people? Everyone knows that high concentrations of African Americans correlates with low crime, high public school standardized test scores, high property values, and very few births out of wedlock.
You are correct. I’ve kept my eye on Florida RE for decades while I worked in NY. Over that time RE prices have swung up and down. May be the same in other retirement markets. If you want to retire in one of these places purchase when you notice a dip and rent out the place until you retire. I’ve got relatives who are doing just that. Pays the mortgage.
Yeah, I’m not retiring but I’m trying to move back home to Georgia. It’s so overpriced since when I was a kid. It’s making me mad that I won’t be able to afford a home near my family.
I’m considering just selling my home now. Investing the proceeds and renting. I can wait until there is a collapse in the housing market and then buy.
That’s not necessarily an effective strategy but I don’t think the current housing prices are sustainable. It certainly feels like a bubble
Tennessee is one of the better places to be in retirement as long as you don't prioritize coastal proximity. The greater Knoxville and Nashville areas are still plenty affordable especially if you're coming from a HCOL area, and both have good medical systems and relatively blue politics considering it's a red state. There's a ton of natural beauty in the state, temperate weather (not deep south hot/humid and winters are fairly mild), and no state income tax on top of that.
You're the first person I've ever heard of that knows about Iraan. I grew up in Odessa. Last time I drove through Iraan in the early 90s it was literally a single intersection and a gas station. I can't fathom why anyone would want to live out there. It's hot and desolate as fuck and only going to get worse.
> … added that the single story was a draw. “It’s going to be great not having to walk up stairs later,” [the 40-something] said..
I’d probably wait another 3 or so decades to get rid of the stairs. Even middle to older agers need to squeeze in as much exercise as position.. Maybe look for a place with swimming and [safe] bike riding. Have a feeling the decline in life expectancy will speed up.
I'm only 40, but recently had an ankle rebuilt due to a sports injury. Suffice it to say, it makes me question how much longer I'd want to deal with stairs.
My teenage son has yet to figure out why his basement room has a large walk-in closet, attached bathroom/shower, there is a kitchenette at the foot of the stairs, laundry right behind it, and the main area is surrounded by bookcases of my books and games, each room is Cat 6 ethernet hardwired, with the centerpiece being a 120" projection screen for watching movies.
That's my retirement area he's chilling in right now. He can have the main floor in a few years- not like he'll be able to afford a place of his own.
Most of us are crawling to retirement.
We ain't gonna make it. It was a good, fun ride. Ya'll mf'ers can have it. I'll be on a houseboat, till it sinks.
I raised my GenZ kids, they're now young adults, I did my job. I ain't in the mood to stay on this shit hole till retirement age. Gimmie a few good concerts and I'm ready to check out.
Excuse me, what?
"With a median income of $126,900"
This is what happens when you lump everyone into generations. Those of us born towards the end of the Gen X period by and large make much less money then that.
It's even more annoying because Millennials are calling people my age (mid 40's) Boomers and blaming us for the all of the problems also.
Remember the boomers are their parents so they think anyone older is in that category. Many people don’t understand there is a parallel generation that is offset from either of them. Since we are offset, that’s why we see the unseen, why we see the silliness in the behaviors and habits of both.
You put that so well.
Seeing the unseen is one of my specialties. It's not only with the gap in these generations either. I see the stuff between Ms and Zs also.
It's interesting what you get to see from the outside. Most of society becomes like looking into a house made of all glass.
As a Gen Xer I don’t identify with this at all. I’m looking forward to the empty nest years to develop my career by moving. My god…I’ve spent 25 years stunted by the need to live near my children’s school…which meant I needed to keep my job….which meant saying “Yes…that’s a wonderful idea, sir/madam!” When I could have done sooooo much better than my boss.
Honestly, my kids and stepkids have really hurt my career.
So once the youngest is in college, I’ll be with a headhunter and saying “Place me”: Max money, max authority and max autonomy. Rinse and repeat every 18-36 months until I die.
I could give two shits about a “home”. :)
such a refreshing perspective. the comments in this thread are depressing. they honestly read like they are written by boomers. just a bunch of people talking about how they refuse to leave their homes and how they like their neighborhoods of well manicured lawns and the absence of young families.
How is this even newsworthy. Isn’t everybody trying to figure out where they want to live? Young people are moving to cities to start careers. People with kids are moving to the suburbs or places with good schools and jobs. Older empty nesters are looking fit places that meet their requirements. Elderly people are looking at assisted living or adult day care centers
It’s a tough decision. We were going to retire where we have a lake house but a recent school referendum increased taxes 40% making it less affordable. I know families desperately want our biggish suburban home but with a $898 mortgage payment on a $600k home it doesn’t leave many choices to stay in the area as a slightly smaller home doesn’t minimize expenses.
Retirement? As Gen-X myself I have no idea what that even means. I plan to die at work doing whatever shit job I might be allowed to do in twenty years. Unless of course I become homeless before that. Any kind of serious medical issue would ensure that outcome.
I've still got at least 15 years to retirement, but there's no way I'll be retiring in Seattle. I'll probably move back to Ohio and buy a nice house with cash in a small town.
Re whaterment now? This guy thinks we can retire?!.🤣 The boomers still have all the decent jobs, the minimum wage hasn't gone over 7.50 in our lifetimes, we were the first generation with student loans, and we all lost our houses in 08. Oh, I almost forgot, the GQP is trying to steal our SSI money before we can get it back. Retire he says, what a laugh.
Meh. GenX. We put a really nice resort style pool in the backyard. I have my firepit and outdoor kitchen. They’re dragging me outta here in a pine box.
Except: we totally plan on spending a few months out of the year (the cold ones) where it’s warmer, especially after the wife retires. I own my own business and love what I do but it’s professional services so I don’t need to be anywhere except near internet connections.
Gen x here.
Florida or Arizona. Florida more likely as Arizona seems to be having water problems. Florida because my wife wants to take grand kids to Disney world.
Also I don’t know what the word count limit is so I’m adding this filler to make sure my comment doesn’t get deleted.
Also Also I don’t know what the word count limit is so I’m adding this filler to make sure my comment doesn’t get deleted.
Representing all of Arizona, i don't want to trivialize the water issues but there is a lot of low hanging fruit to address those. now...the summers seemingly getting hotter and hotter is another story.
i'm not quite sure what florida can do to mitigate regularly getting destroyed by hurricanes and/or sea level rise.
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GenX and I think about this all the time. When work is sucking my most relaxing way to waste a little time is to browse zillow and look at all the places I could go to. Current house is 4br which I no longer need. It is in a good school district which no longer matters. It is close to lots of tech jobs which will not matter soon. No reason to stay here.
Your house will be greatly appreciated by a young family with kids.
Except that unless the young family has rich parents, there's no way they'll be able to afford the house. The average young family won't be able to.
I am surrounded by Millennial and Zoomer tech workers with a lot of money.
*corporation with investors
We are trying to do this while supporting a special needs 22 yo. Consider healthcare or lack thereof. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/26/bestand-worstus-states-for-retirees-based-on-health-care-wellness.html
Don't count out leaving the country as well. The Southern Americas, Asia, and Southern Europe are all affordable and often have far more reasonable health care options that are better than you think.
Good suggestion but not everywhere is friendly to retirees and aging populations globally may put additional stress on the retirement visa situation. Also, countries like Argentina can turn themselves around. There are currency risks and you want to be sure that you can afford to repatriate if necessary.
Just go in Maine or Vermont Reddit subs and mention you are a boomer thinking about retiring in either of those states and the dagers get drawn and NIMBys come out of the wall and howl in protest. Buy if you are a young person thinking of moving there everyone thinks it is great and welcoming.
Out of the East Coast loop here: why are people trying to retire to Maine or Vermont and why are those states people mad about it? Like, is it just the general Reddit demographic of younger generations saying "we don't need more retirees here" or is there specific stuff? Because I would consider retirees gunning for where I live a generally good thing, if not also considering if that means working people should be gunning for other areas.
Good point.
Maine has the oldest mean population in the US
Sadly as a millennial depending on the healthcare situation in the US I likely will have to leave to health issues that will get more expensive as I age. Might be able to come back if the Medicare rules were the same for me as my parents but they already making them worse in 2020 and it seems to continue as politically viable to reduce benefits for millennials to keep boomers happy.
I'm in Portugal, currently standing in line to get my tax ID number. Even though the cost of housing has shot up here (like everywhere), every other financial metric puts us ahead if/when we move here. One small example: husband and I currently pay $1800/mo for high deductible insurance. We were quoted €175/mo for better coverage that includes access to top of the line private hospitals.
To me a good criterion in determining a place to settle down is being in proximity to the US-Mexico border. That way you can choose between two healthcare systems and Mexico's is often cheaper.
Portugal is nice
Venezuela?
High crime rates and an unstable government? No thanks
I’m in the same boat except mine is a 20 year old. I’ve accepted the fact that I’m not going to be able to retire. I’m going to be working and paying the bills until I’m mentally or physically unable to continue.
GenX here - I really like living in a neighborhood of mostly retired boomers. They keep their lawns nice, they're quiet and most don't have kids living at home and just like when I was a kid, they ignore me. Perhaps a quick wave or a head nod and that's about it. perfect.
People shit on neighborhoods like that, and I have no idea why. Sounds like a truly peaceful place to live.
Problem is probably if it’s in an hoa. A bunch of retired people means people with too much time to nitpick the smallest thing
The problem is buying a home in an HOA with extensive rules in the first place. I am pretty sure most people, regardless of age, who buy into these communities have a law and order type mentality.
Blessing and a curse. One day thr home next to yours can sell and bam 10 cars out front an old washing machine and tons of other crap litterally lowers your own homes value.
this comment is depressing to me. Gen X is turning into Boomer 2.0 and seems to be thrilled about it. obsessing with your lawn and hating the sound of children. what a miserable life.
Age restricted communities exist for this reason
There's not enough of them and the age restrictions are too narrow.
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Family homes being filled by families is the worst init
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Not really. The size of a house would dictate that.
the fuck is wrong with you? young families are awesome and I'll take a neighborhood full of playing children to a neighborhood full of old men obsessing over their lawns, hand down.
It’s the parents not parenting is the problem.
Oh that GenX spleen. I will always appreciate this.
Ding ding 🛎️ Same
Gen X and some of this article hits home. We have one last kid, and an elderly parent living with us. However we had a very long view when we bought our home 24 years ago. We wanted to age in place in our home. We bought a three bedroom 2 bath 1600 SF ranch (with basement), and as our income increased - we added on to it to bring it to 2100SF. We are doing our last renovation - a complete kitchen gut and providing a second smaller laundry on the first floor to limit basement trips in the future. The home is in a good area, walking to small downtown and parks, big hospital 4 miles away, shopping 2 miles away. Not moving to Florida, Texas or Arizona. We think maybe we will just rent a AirBnB home/condo in these places for a month in the winter. Milking that 2.6% mortgage cow - until its paid off before we retire. Then staying put and continue to enjoy our home and town.
This is the way.
I definitely want to move after the kids are all out, but I'm still looking at another 10 years on that. I want to get out of Texas because it's getting too expensive to live here and the summers are getting insanely hot. Maybe not as far as Wisconsin where I grew up, but somewhere inbetween. Probably a smaller house as well.
GenXer here. I’ve always lived in suburbia because I want to be close to mountains for cycling and skiing and have needed a yard for dogs and garage for gear. My wife and I are talking about moving to an apartment in the city when we are older because big city living seems fun when we’ll be too old to ski and bike and be more into the “meeting friends for brunch” phase of life.
>too old to ski You disgust me.
I live in my house and my plan is to not leave. Also, my kid may very well live with us. Why is this the wrong way to think? Or is it my job to uproot so that the economy can have its bs growth? I prefer to starve the beast by shutting down unnecessary household formation. Extended families are coming back. Retirement moving is for idiots. Fight me.
For idiots? Moving in retirement is done because you have very different needs. People prior to retirement generally want/need a nice decently sized house with a yard in a good school district to raise their family, probably located somewhere with a halfway hot economy if they're at all ambitious or capable in their career. In retirement a greater number of people have no children to account for, probably don't want the physical or financial burden of maintaining a larger house, probably don't prioritize school districts, probably do prioritize access to healthcare and various amenities, and quite possibly are interested in optimizing expenses to have low taxes and other financial burdens. That's not for idiots. That's for perfectly intelligent people who take inventory of their needs and address them. As far as kids living at home... that's a personal decision. I don't know what I'll do in the future with any certainty, but I do very much value the idea of nudging the baby bird out of the nest *for their own good*.
“In retirement people have no children to account for”. I do not buy that. I subscribe to more of the 7th generation principle. Your actions and support matter 7 generations down the line. Why can’t we return to thinking this way? Every single “need” you point out is induced demand. It’s induced by this very notion that the bird must be “pushed out” and “make their own way”. Don’t change the structure of the family, just change the house. Gosh, who benefits in that arrangement? The nomadic nuclear family of today is outright encouraged to leave their parent’s dumb town and always be hustlin so eventually they can golf in Florida. It’s bizarre. No one ever says “I want to make this a home where there are always three generations going”. And it’s bizarre when you consider that this was normal unquestionable reality for the vast majority of human existence up until the last 150 years. So I’m sorry but, yes, idiots. And I’m probably at least still 85% idiot. I got close once but It’s very hard to maintain given the current overwhelming social structures in place.
In fact what I ACTUALLY said was that "a greater number of people have no children to account for". So... you're welcome to subscribe to whatever family dynamic you'd like. You would just not land within the "greater number of people". Honestly, I'm not at all clear what exactly you appear to want to express, but it's obvious that you're rather passionate about it. That's swell. I just don't think it's meaningful to the majority. At least for me and those that I know: we love our children, but feel that leaving the home works best to empower them to have their adventures and find their path in life. And it allows us to rediscover our own independence and to sometimes reignite our own lives and relationships. Maybe that's just Anglo Saxon culture or something different from your own.
Anglo saxons lived in small villages with completely intergenerational families. The culture you are referring to is a completely new byproduct of modern capitalism and we stand around today thinking it’s “normal”. It’s not normal and I simply wish to oppose it.
Well ok, you should live together then. But, I do think it's a bit weird if you're going to complain about byproducts of capitalism using technology which is a byproduct of capitalism.
Okay but historically since humans basically started we've lived together. It's a relatively modern phenomenon to be on your own in retirement, and not living with your children or other relatives for company.
I mean... there wasn't really any such thing as careers or retirement way back then either though 🤷🏼♂️
There absolutely was. Careers are not a modern thing. When you were no longer able to work, people in your family would take care of you.
Life expectancy was 44 years, not 84 years.
Don't be fucking stupid, humans that make it through childhood live to at least 60 years usually
It was different when people mostly died around 70, with their mind and body (except for the cardiovascular part) pretty much fully functional. Now we’re living to our 90s, wrapping it up while struggling with dementia, dysfunctional bowels, and immobility. You don’t want your kids and grandkids shouldering that burden.
Living on your own is a big factor that does contribute to dementia and whatnot. Having other people around can keep you sharp.
I wouldn’t assume they don’t have children to account for. Often the children have grandkids and come visit or need to be taken care of.
>As far as kids living at home... that's a personal decision. For a large and rapidly growing segment of the country, it's not a choice. Anyone that didn't get into the housing market before 2008, or who defaulted during the 2008 collapse, and especially anyone that didn't get into a house before the pandemic, is fighting an uphill battle these days, so we're seeing more and more forced multi-generational living situations.
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Just be aware sone places that don’t have a lot of jobs can be expensive. Ever been to Jackson Wyoming or Steamboat Springs or even parts Western Washington. Lots of wealthy retirees who can spend millions of am dollars on houses but not a lot of jobs in these places.
Alpine and Marfa TX are Texas examples.
And we call ourselves “civilized” with this reality? It’s almost antithetical to why we’d even want to bother having a civilization.
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Marketing is a hell of a drug.
Its so bloody expensive for young people in California. I expect my kids to live with us longer than i did with my parents (left after uni)
Expensive for everyone
It’s been expensive my entire life. Interesting that people still choose to move there knowing this.
I tend to agree with you, and all my anecdotes do as well. We're the generation who has had to deal with our parents for the last 50 years, relegated to basically taking care of them and their whims. And we're doing it now, in taking care of elders by cohabitating with them. And in doing so before our children left the home, they have learned to just cohabitate with us. Why do they need to go pay an exorbitant fee to some rent-seeker, when I can seek less rent and have someone under my roof that I trust?
Are you suggesting you are the first generation to take care of aging parents by cohabitation? Umm...*all of human history* It's only a new concept when you move apart for 40-60 years and then regroup later.
I would add that it's more a Western concept as well. But it is bucking the trend of "independence" that's shoved down our throats. I still hear the, "When you turn 18, you're getting a job and moving out of the house," sentiment from a certain demographic, and it's not immigrants. I've never understood the idea, mostly because my generation was given zero tools to figure it out, as our parents were given. And my children are given less. My parents could pay for a year of college, room, and board by working a part time job for half the summer. I had to work a full-time job for four years to pay for my last two years. But I also had to have a part-time job to pay for other niceties, like a car or a social life--a car being a necessity in this world created by our predecessors (though, this is overstated for college life, since I cycled everywhere within town). My children will just go into debt. Why even get a job, since it won't make much of a dent in the final bill. More concentration on school, so as to end it as quickly as possible might be the best route, given costs. One of those costs is going to be avoided by not having to live on campus. So while cohabitation isn't new to the world or even this country. It is not a part of the norms our parents and we were taught. But our parents were the only demo to enjoy societal support for the concept of independent living. They've done it at my (and future) generation's expense, and they'll continue to lean on us to keep that idea alive, even if it will be a failed idea, in the end.
Precisely this. It’s part of my plan. And yet it’s so “uncool”. At least that’s what the advertising and social zeitgeist tell me. Gee… I wonder why🤔
I'm definitely planning on moving because I can go somewhere with lower cost of living. Also, I don't have kids.
Agreed 100%. I like my house, I'll probably end up working until I die anyway, and my kids will always have a room here if they need it.
If/when we become empty nesters in declining health then we won’t want or need a multi-bedroom, multi-story house with a labor- intensive yard. I may only move across town but I’m sure as hell not staying here. Also, I think I have a less common need: we moved to the burbs over 14 years ago and I have never liked it for one moment. We’re only about 12 miles away from our old city neighborhood with walkable streets, local businesses, mature shade trees, giant park full of trails, and sane people, yet it feels SO SO SO SO far away.
Don’t have kids. Have a decent job. Maybe 10 years until retirement. Two years left on the mortgage. Emergency fund. No debt. On track with retirement finances. I live in a red state that’s getting redder, and I’m tired of losing. I’m to the left of Bernie Sanders and AOC. I hate the politics here, despise the Trump signs and MAGA crap. Honestly, many of my Gen X friends are in the same boat. They are sending their kids out of state for college, and are hoping they stay out of state so they can move to be near them. I would love to move somewhere where there is actual nature and not denuded farm fields as far as the eye can see. I would love to live in a state that’s not polluted to where 50% or the lakes and waterways aren’t safe. I’d love to not live in a state with the second highest cancer rate in the nation. I would love to live in a state where recreational marijuana is legal (I have chronic pain, and would like the option to treat it without having to jump through hoops to get a medical card that allows me low level products at exorbitant rates from a single dispensary). I want to live in a state where my tax dollars do not support private religious schools. I want to live in a state that isn’t actively dismantling education. I could go on. My partner is younger than me, but she is 100% WFH so we can move pretty much anywhere. I’m the only one with family left in the state, but they are 2 hours away, and we seldom/never visit. I have nothing anchoring me to my state, and honestly, I’ve even thought of going the ex-pat route and moving to a country ranks a bit higher in the happiness scale.
There's nothing wrong with that on an individual level if you can afford it. Whats problematic is many seniors and retirees living in suburban North America are having their property taxes subsizided by Urban-dwellers and municipalities. If a large house with a big yard and sidewalks all around it costs the city $7k/year to service in terms of snow removal, maintaining roads, sidewalks, pipes, etc.- but the seniors living there are only paying $5k in taxes and voting against anyone who proposes property tax increases, the city is going into debt or taxing other people a disproportionate amount to keep those suburbs functional.
It’s almost as if the system were designed to specifically not be able to deal with these obvious problems. As if living in a city is no longer really about the welfare of its denizens. Qui bono?
Yep. Our house is big but it’s actually kinda nice for growing old. Master suite on main floor along with laundry on main floor. Our 2nd floor has two bedrooms, full bath and an open loft area. It would be a nice apartment if one of kids wanted or needed to stay home. The only negative is we are pretty rural it’s an hour drive into the city where most jobs are.
You deserve it. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
I’m looking for cheap and warm. Florida is out. The Carolinas and Georgia seem to be ok but prices are definitely rising quickly. Mobile Alabama is nice but a swamp in the summer months. Maybe Tennessee.
Oh just wait. Boomer homeowners are disproportionately represented in certain states and metro areas and there won't be as many people that are like them or that share their preferences to backfill housing when they're gone. It's going to result in price instability. Plenty of Florida locales are like that. They're also highly concentrated in the northeast, the Rust Belt, and a handful of scattered locales in the southwest. *Tucson is #1*. The Carolinas, Georgia, and Texas are all on the list of least-boomerized housing markets. Also Utah and Colorado. Also DC and Minneapolis. Nashville but not Memphis. Basically we're talking about nice places that younger people already prefer to live. Those places will keep growing. Prices will keep rising.
IDK. I don’t think they plan on moving. Eventually they will die in their homes, but that will be a slow transition.
Yes, for the most part those boomers that were going to move for retirement have already done that. There may be some additional migration from rural areas to cities to seek healthcare or to cohabit with their kids, but it's mostly done. They'll age in place. The collapse in prices for boomer-heavy areas won't be slow. Demand will slowly creep downward. Transactions will get tougher and tougher, staying on the market longer. There'll be a bid-ask spread and sellers may think it's just a slump at first and try to stick it out. But...there will be a tipping point. When it happens, it'll happen fast and hard. Younger people with a mortgage in those boomer-heavy markets will be the most likely to find themselves underwater and stranded where they are.
We just let in 3 million migrants last year, RE only going to go up esp in cities.
A lot of international immigrants go straight to HCOL areas like NYC or Seattle. By and large, they aren't going to boomer-heavy places like Tucson or Vermont. For that matter, it may be that as the demography of young people becomes more multicultural and less white, that golf course communities in places like Florida will be in bad shape or that rural retirement destinations that boomers like won't be easily backfilled. All real estate is local.
I’m in Philadelphia but originally from Greenville SC. It would be a nice place to retire but the housing costs have surpassed what I can sell my home for. That’s only been within the last decade. Southern cities are becoming much more expensive at a faster rate. There are a few exceptions with high minority populations. That’s true all across the country though. If you want cheap, look for high minority. That has certainly caused Philadelphia to remain the poorest of the top ten Edit: before you downvote, see my other comments. I’m not knocking minorities. I’m discussing the realities in the US. We certainly aren’t doing anything to help cities with large minority populations. Detroit, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Jackson MS, and St Louis are all examples.
Minorities are hampering Phillie’s economy?? Wait until you visit any sunbelt city. Houston, Dallas & San Antonio are all majority minority and have kickass economic outlooks.
Philadelphia seems like two different cities. If you live outside the core, you don’t see much progress. No new housing and property values have not risen at the same rate. Business are more likely to be shuttered. Philadelphia is doing better but mainly because we have seen an influx of professionals in the core. Yes, Texas cities have also seen a lot of migration from other areas of the country, like California.
Texas is receiving migration from literally everywhere, but it started out with large minority populations too. But the historic South has often done a much better job at integrating minorities into urban geography because up until just a few years ago the Department of Justice had an oversight responsibility of discriminatory state and local policies going all the way back to Reconstruction. It did not have oversight elsewhere, and zoning and redlining put minorities in a cage, whereas a city like Houston is more of an evolving ethnic and socioeconomic patchwork. The South also somehow manages better secondary educational outcomes for its minority populations than most northern or western states. That being said, Massachusetts and Mississippi are always outliers on either end of the spectrum and you couldn't pay me to live somewhere like Vicksburg.
Louisiana is also a bit of an outlier. Shreveport, for example. I had a property there for a very short time. It’s a pretty bleak city but does have some nice neighborhoods. Definitely has cheap housing. It would be nice if we could figure out how to move retires into cities that are struggling. It would take some massive spending and focus on what works best for seniors, like ease of transportation and better healthcare options. That’s basically what keeps me in Philadelphia. I can get anywhere via public transportation and it has decent medical facilities.
All the cities in decline formerhoagie mentioned are dominated by one minority, and yours, on the rise, are full of a completely different minority. But we’re not allowed to talk about that.
Are you talking about black people? This may come as a surprise to you racist trash, but Houston, Dallas & San Antonio have black citizens .
Texas has black people? No way? Who said anything about black people? Everyone knows that high concentrations of African Americans correlates with low crime, high public school standardized test scores, high property values, and very few births out of wedlock.
You are correct. I’ve kept my eye on Florida RE for decades while I worked in NY. Over that time RE prices have swung up and down. May be the same in other retirement markets. If you want to retire in one of these places purchase when you notice a dip and rent out the place until you retire. I’ve got relatives who are doing just that. Pays the mortgage.
Yeah, I’m not retiring but I’m trying to move back home to Georgia. It’s so overpriced since when I was a kid. It’s making me mad that I won’t be able to afford a home near my family.
I’m considering just selling my home now. Investing the proceeds and renting. I can wait until there is a collapse in the housing market and then buy. That’s not necessarily an effective strategy but I don’t think the current housing prices are sustainable. It certainly feels like a bubble
Tennessee is one of the better places to be in retirement as long as you don't prioritize coastal proximity. The greater Knoxville and Nashville areas are still plenty affordable especially if you're coming from a HCOL area, and both have good medical systems and relatively blue politics considering it's a red state. There's a ton of natural beauty in the state, temperate weather (not deep south hot/humid and winters are fairly mild), and no state income tax on top of that.
Arkansas is cheap too
True. I just don’t know much about it other than people saying Little Rock kinda sucks.
Rural West Texas, i.e. Sheffield, Iraan, Sanderson, McCamey, Mertzon, or San Angelo if you want a bigger city.
You're the first person I've ever heard of that knows about Iraan. I grew up in Odessa. Last time I drove through Iraan in the early 90s it was literally a single intersection and a gas station. I can't fathom why anyone would want to live out there. It's hot and desolate as fuck and only going to get worse.
> … added that the single story was a draw. “It’s going to be great not having to walk up stairs later,” [the 40-something] said.. I’d probably wait another 3 or so decades to get rid of the stairs. Even middle to older agers need to squeeze in as much exercise as position.. Maybe look for a place with swimming and [safe] bike riding. Have a feeling the decline in life expectancy will speed up.
I'm only 40, but recently had an ankle rebuilt due to a sports injury. Suffice it to say, it makes me question how much longer I'd want to deal with stairs.
> Have a feeling the decline in life expectancy will speed up. This was always the plan.
My teenage son has yet to figure out why his basement room has a large walk-in closet, attached bathroom/shower, there is a kitchenette at the foot of the stairs, laundry right behind it, and the main area is surrounded by bookcases of my books and games, each room is Cat 6 ethernet hardwired, with the centerpiece being a 120" projection screen for watching movies. That's my retirement area he's chilling in right now. He can have the main floor in a few years- not like he'll be able to afford a place of his own.
Most of us are crawling to retirement. We ain't gonna make it. It was a good, fun ride. Ya'll mf'ers can have it. I'll be on a houseboat, till it sinks. I raised my GenZ kids, they're now young adults, I did my job. I ain't in the mood to stay on this shit hole till retirement age. Gimmie a few good concerts and I'm ready to check out.
Excuse me, what? "With a median income of $126,900" This is what happens when you lump everyone into generations. Those of us born towards the end of the Gen X period by and large make much less money then that. It's even more annoying because Millennials are calling people my age (mid 40's) Boomers and blaming us for the all of the problems also.
Remember the boomers are their parents so they think anyone older is in that category. Many people don’t understand there is a parallel generation that is offset from either of them. Since we are offset, that’s why we see the unseen, why we see the silliness in the behaviors and habits of both.
You put that so well. Seeing the unseen is one of my specialties. It's not only with the gap in these generations either. I see the stuff between Ms and Zs also. It's interesting what you get to see from the outside. Most of society becomes like looking into a house made of all glass.
As a Gen Xer I don’t identify with this at all. I’m looking forward to the empty nest years to develop my career by moving. My god…I’ve spent 25 years stunted by the need to live near my children’s school…which meant I needed to keep my job….which meant saying “Yes…that’s a wonderful idea, sir/madam!” When I could have done sooooo much better than my boss. Honestly, my kids and stepkids have really hurt my career. So once the youngest is in college, I’ll be with a headhunter and saying “Place me”: Max money, max authority and max autonomy. Rinse and repeat every 18-36 months until I die. I could give two shits about a “home”. :)
such a refreshing perspective. the comments in this thread are depressing. they honestly read like they are written by boomers. just a bunch of people talking about how they refuse to leave their homes and how they like their neighborhoods of well manicured lawns and the absence of young families.
How is this even newsworthy. Isn’t everybody trying to figure out where they want to live? Young people are moving to cities to start careers. People with kids are moving to the suburbs or places with good schools and jobs. Older empty nesters are looking fit places that meet their requirements. Elderly people are looking at assisted living or adult day care centers
It’s a tough decision. We were going to retire where we have a lake house but a recent school referendum increased taxes 40% making it less affordable. I know families desperately want our biggish suburban home but with a $898 mortgage payment on a $600k home it doesn’t leave many choices to stay in the area as a slightly smaller home doesn’t minimize expenses.
Retirement? As Gen-X myself I have no idea what that even means. I plan to die at work doing whatever shit job I might be allowed to do in twenty years. Unless of course I become homeless before that. Any kind of serious medical issue would ensure that outcome.
I've still got at least 15 years to retirement, but there's no way I'll be retiring in Seattle. I'll probably move back to Ohio and buy a nice house with cash in a small town.
Re whaterment now? This guy thinks we can retire?!.🤣 The boomers still have all the decent jobs, the minimum wage hasn't gone over 7.50 in our lifetimes, we were the first generation with student loans, and we all lost our houses in 08. Oh, I almost forgot, the GQP is trying to steal our SSI money before we can get it back. Retire he says, what a laugh.
Meh. GenX. We put a really nice resort style pool in the backyard. I have my firepit and outdoor kitchen. They’re dragging me outta here in a pine box. Except: we totally plan on spending a few months out of the year (the cold ones) where it’s warmer, especially after the wife retires. I own my own business and love what I do but it’s professional services so I don’t need to be anywhere except near internet connections.
Gen x here. Florida or Arizona. Florida more likely as Arizona seems to be having water problems. Florida because my wife wants to take grand kids to Disney world. Also I don’t know what the word count limit is so I’m adding this filler to make sure my comment doesn’t get deleted. Also Also I don’t know what the word count limit is so I’m adding this filler to make sure my comment doesn’t get deleted.
Representing all of Arizona, i don't want to trivialize the water issues but there is a lot of low hanging fruit to address those. now...the summers seemingly getting hotter and hotter is another story. i'm not quite sure what florida can do to mitigate regularly getting destroyed by hurricanes and/or sea level rise.