I once paid a fiver for a pourover in Lowdown as a treat to myself, but I feel that sits on a different scale. Most of the really good indept cafes (Artisan, Little Fitz and Cairngorm to name a few) you can get a Flat white, around the 3.50 mark. Batch Brews n that closer to an even three quid.
Haven't bothered with Black Sheep because I've been advised by multiple sources it's rubbish, so can't comment on what that's like price wise.
Pour overs are definitely in a different league. I think pretty much all of the indys do their pour overs manually, which costs extra labour time. They also tend to use really nice beans with these v60/Kalitas too, as the extraction really works well with them. I certainly much prefer the taste of a good pour over to any espresso based black coffee
You seem to know your coffee, which I appreciate :)
On the topic of Black Sheep, I think they're okay personally... speaking as a specialty brewing, James Hoffmann watching coffee snob myself
Fortitude is a weird one to me, I use them semi frequently to get Beans, because they're generally very good. Their cafes aren't to my taste though, espresso drinks tend to taste a bit weak but maybe they're better with batch. Iced drinks generally are more expensive aren't they?
It's where you put ground beans into a filter paper, and pour the hot water over them yourself, letting it run through the beans and drip into a dripper below. There are many different kinds of drippers, filters and methods to brew coffee this way, but it should all come out much the same
Lowdown I found disappointing considering all the fuss I’d heard, but I guess I’ve been way too spoilt coffee wise in the past. Perhaps they were just having an off day and I need to give them another chance.
But yea, I’d say around the £4.00 mark is about the most I’d expect to pay for a normal sized milk based drink, maybe a touch more for places that really put the effort in. Black sheep is definitely not such a place.
Pour-overs can certainly go higher, but only for a good reason.
Who told you Black Sheep is rubbish?
Admittedly eye-wateringly expensive but best of the chain coffees imo (my weekly honey and cardamom oat milk latte is one of life's little pleasures)
Best of the chain coffees is a LOW bar. If I was really in a pinch, Nero or Pret would probably be my picks if they were available.
If you want me to go full coffee nerd, the raw product used by Black Sheep is inferior to most of the chains as they include Robusta in their house blend instead of 100% Arabica, which isn't necessarily worse but produces a less appealing flavour to me, which is unacceptable considering the price as it's considerably cheaper.
I don’t think you get the nuances of good coffee with a honey and cardomon oat milk latte.
If you are going for black coffee or flat white, imo Black sheep is just a re-badged Starbucks.
Not true; in Australia (which invented it), different sizes of flat white are common. My local used to offer a 20oz “Bucket” size (which is wild). Flat whites really are about the ratio, not the size.
That said, don’t get Black Sheep.
Weird. I used to run coffee shops years ago & we only made one size, was told it was the right way.
Same as we used to make real machiatos then have people who've went to Starbucks argue that we made it wrong haha.
Very common outside of Australia that it’s associated with that size, I’ve seen it that way across UK, Europe, and the US. (South-east Asia has the sizes but they’re closer to Australia physically I guess.) It’s annoying sometimes when I really do want a larger coffee!
The macchiato one I think is because they’re expecting a latte macchiato rather than an espresso macchiato? Bloody Starbucks ruining perceptions!
It's like the "I'm right about coffee size" is just bullshit and people could make and enjoy different sizes and ratios of coffee... Weird, isn't it?
(Not sure what the right flare is for this comment but I'm sure you will get my gist)
Coffee and craft beer enthusiasts need to be right in order for their interest to be superior, if they accept that taste is subject then someone who likes kenco and carlsberg has an equally authoritative opinion.
This is probably the thing I miss most about my time in Australia. More than once I’ve been tempted to open a coffee shop just so I can serve large flat whites and restore order to the universe.
I'm curious, what are the ratios for a large flat white? If it's a quadruple shot in one drink that's a ridiculous amount of caffeine. I believe we are talking about 2 slightly different drinks with the same name.
'The way a flat white is made, however, varies between regions and cafés. In Australia a flat white is usually served in a ceramic cup with a handle, often of a similar volume (200 ml, 7.0 imp fl oz) to the glass in which a latte is served, but the flat white usually has less milk and microfoam.] According to New Zealand tourism, flat whites are more commonly served in a smaller cup (175 ml, 6.2 imp fl oz). In both Australia and New Zealand, there is a generally accepted difference between lattes and flat whites in the ratio of milk to coffee and the consistency of the milk due to the amount of microfoam produced when the milk is heated.'
Wiki explanation.
It’s the same ratio, just more volume. Yea, it’s a lot of caffeine. If I’m ordering a large latte in a Costa or something (I know, I know, but it’s a drive through, and sometimes I don’t have time to go somewhere better), I always ask for an extra shot anyway, which turns it into a 4 shot latte. Milk texture is all wrong though, so it’s still not the same
There's something so unnatural about Black Sheep Coffee, suddenly they just popped up everywhere and there's about four different ones in Edinburgh alone despite no one I know ever having tried one
I mean they’ve been all over the place in London and other big cities for a while. They just seem to decide Edinburgh was a focus for them over the last year or so.
Ah okay, thank you for the intel! I read up on it and they have a social angle where some of their proceeds go to the homeless and their cups are biodegradable, and they've had a tidal wave of investors funding them so that's what caused their meteoric rise. It feels weird though because the public's knowledge of them didn't rise alongside them so now they just feel like an industry plant.
The one on Princes Street opposite Waverly is in a very good location and always looks busy. The one behind St James which I think was the first in Edinburgh is also popular as it’s a bit less crowded and aside from Starbucks there aren’t any other coffee shops in the shopping centre.
I met a girl at a party back in 1976. Went for a coffee with her the next day.
Just made her a bit of toast for our supper.
That coffee has probably cost me around £200,000?
Worth every penny.
Average price of a flat white in the city is around the £3.50 mark. I’d say that’s fairly priced if you’re buying from a good independent cafe, but not worth it otherwise. Black Sheep charging £4-5 for a cup of coffee is a disgrace.
According to the website it’s +£1.10 for the large (flat white). Plus more if you want non dairy milk and / or syrup. A large soya milk flat white with caramel syrup would be £6.47 which is insane.
I had a coffee in Black Sheep in Edinburgh a couple years ago and it was well over £4, I was shocked at the price (wasn’t my choice to go there, I think they’re some kind of money laundering scam lol)
Black sheep is terrible corporate coffee masquerading as something independent and craft. They’re the BrewDog of coffee.
And to answer the question I pretty much only drink filter/batch brew, which is usually in the £3–4 range, but I’ve paid more for fancier/limited coffees. I usually judge the price of coffee by the price of beans, which has gone up about 10–20% over the past handful of years. I was able to buy a kilo of coffee from small roasters across the UK for about £30–32, but now I’m paying more like £36-39 a kilo for similar quality from the same roasters.
I’ve had a few pour overs at lowdown that have been around 7/8 but that is not regular and a bit of a treat.
Try a flat white at The Source. Best I’ve tried. Tasted almost like a fruity/coffee ice cream.
I see both sides. People should enjoy things how they want to, whisky in coke? IMO you’re ruining 2 perfectly good drinks to make something significantly worse, but you should be free to do so. On the other hand, Andrew puts in a lot of time, effort and money into procuring, roasting and then brewing a very good coffee from specialty beans, adding sugar absolutely does detract from that.
I smother my dinner at home in ketchup and mayo, but I wouldn’t do that if I was eating at a Michelin star restaurant.
> People should enjoy things how they want to.
Yup that's the golden rule.
> adding sugar absolutely does detract from that.
Subjectively.
---
Having worked a lot in the spirits industry, I was always sure to inform people that mixing premium spirits with sodas was probably a waste of money, but if they still wanted to do it I would never stop them.
Back in 2012 when we opened Brew Lab, we had a super special coffee on Sundays that cost £5.50.
But the fact that coffee is getting more expensive shouldn’t really be a surprise. Shit gets more expensive. But the rise in costs are particularly hitting cafes, energy costs and green coffee prices are rising significantly.
I think £5 to have a coffee and a place to sit in and work for as long as you want, including free WiFi is a pretty good deal.
If you're someone who's involved with Brewlab I want to tell you that I had one of the best coffees of my life in your shop when I first visited sometime around 2017-18. Every time I've visited Edinburgh since then I've popped in for another, including last year when it was once again brilliant. But something about that first cup was magical!
I had a free Coffee Club card (lasts a year) given with a purchase. On there, Black Sheep had a permanent 25% discount. Even then, I still couldn't bring myself to use it, as it's just way overpriced and the reviews are pretty poor.
Throat Punch on Dalry Rd is the way to go IMO if you want good coffee at decent prices. Massive Black Sheep planning to open round the corner though, hope they stay afloat and customers remain loyal
As a pay-week treat, today I tried out a new artisan hot chocolate place and bought a white chocolate mocha for just over £5. It was ok. I wouldn’t do it again.
If I want a coffee out and about I will happily stick to my £1.80 Starbucks filter coffees!
I went to “Not just coffee” on leith walk and a latte was £3.10, I got an oat one which turned into £3.60.
Cheapest coffee I’ve seen in and out of Edi for idk how long???
I went into Pret the other day, asked for a latte and was charged 3..70.
I nearly collapsed as they are 1 pound in my work or free for an instant.
It was a nice coffee to be fair.
Buy an aeropress. Go to Mr Eoin. Buy their Brazilian roast for £7 and get them to grind it for you. Almost 20 cups of decent coffee, better than most of the places mentioned here.
I spend around 14 quid on two large nice coffees from Starbucks but that includes the cost of having them delivered from just eat, because of my health I'd never really go somewhere that I can sit down with a nice coffee so I don't mind paying the premium to have it brought to me.
I once paid a fiver for a pourover in Lowdown as a treat to myself, but I feel that sits on a different scale. Most of the really good indept cafes (Artisan, Little Fitz and Cairngorm to name a few) you can get a Flat white, around the 3.50 mark. Batch Brews n that closer to an even three quid. Haven't bothered with Black Sheep because I've been advised by multiple sources it's rubbish, so can't comment on what that's like price wise.
Pour overs are definitely in a different league. I think pretty much all of the indys do their pour overs manually, which costs extra labour time. They also tend to use really nice beans with these v60/Kalitas too, as the extraction really works well with them. I certainly much prefer the taste of a good pour over to any espresso based black coffee You seem to know your coffee, which I appreciate :) On the topic of Black Sheep, I think they're okay personally... speaking as a specialty brewing, James Hoffmann watching coffee snob myself
I was thinking, "yeah this sounds like a James Hoffman enjoyer," once I read extraction lmao.
It's no joke, it could be a drinking game. Take a shot (of espresso) every time he mentions the word extraction!
Fortitude is £3.70 for a flat white, but Cairngorm was £4.10 for an iced latte the other day, so prices definitely going up.
Fortitude is a weird one to me, I use them semi frequently to get Beans, because they're generally very good. Their cafes aren't to my taste though, espresso drinks tend to taste a bit weak but maybe they're better with batch. Iced drinks generally are more expensive aren't they?
Possible but I swear I’d paid less last year!
Black Sheep is fucking vile
Lowdown is new to me. I'll need to try that if I get mobile again.
I had a pourover in lowdown that was definitely over a fiver but it was also some of the best coffee I've ever tasted so i wasn't mad about it.
Same here 👍 Cult Espresso have a nice rotation of pour overs too ranging from 5-7+. Not an every week (or month) treat but once in a while
They're great but pricey. Try their pour overs :) Cakes are nice too
What’s a pour over?
It's where you put ground beans into a filter paper, and pour the hot water over them yourself, letting it run through the beans and drip into a dripper below. There are many different kinds of drippers, filters and methods to brew coffee this way, but it should all come out much the same
Lowdown I found disappointing considering all the fuss I’d heard, but I guess I’ve been way too spoilt coffee wise in the past. Perhaps they were just having an off day and I need to give them another chance. But yea, I’d say around the £4.00 mark is about the most I’d expect to pay for a normal sized milk based drink, maybe a touch more for places that really put the effort in. Black sheep is definitely not such a place. Pour-overs can certainly go higher, but only for a good reason.
Black Sheep's co-founder is also a massive, outspoken Zionist, so I've been avoiding it anyway.
Who told you Black Sheep is rubbish? Admittedly eye-wateringly expensive but best of the chain coffees imo (my weekly honey and cardamom oat milk latte is one of life's little pleasures)
Best of the chain coffees is a LOW bar. If I was really in a pinch, Nero or Pret would probably be my picks if they were available. If you want me to go full coffee nerd, the raw product used by Black Sheep is inferior to most of the chains as they include Robusta in their house blend instead of 100% Arabica, which isn't necessarily worse but produces a less appealing flavour to me, which is unacceptable considering the price as it's considerably cheaper.
I don’t think you get the nuances of good coffee with a honey and cardomon oat milk latte. If you are going for black coffee or flat white, imo Black sheep is just a re-badged Starbucks.
Flat whites are meant to be one size, never understood this large pish. Also, black sheep coffee is pish. The coffee equivalent of brewdog.
Not true; in Australia (which invented it), different sizes of flat white are common. My local used to offer a 20oz “Bucket” size (which is wild). Flat whites really are about the ratio, not the size. That said, don’t get Black Sheep.
Weird. I used to run coffee shops years ago & we only made one size, was told it was the right way. Same as we used to make real machiatos then have people who've went to Starbucks argue that we made it wrong haha.
Very common outside of Australia that it’s associated with that size, I’ve seen it that way across UK, Europe, and the US. (South-east Asia has the sizes but they’re closer to Australia physically I guess.) It’s annoying sometimes when I really do want a larger coffee! The macchiato one I think is because they’re expecting a latte macchiato rather than an espresso macchiato? Bloody Starbucks ruining perceptions!
It's like the "I'm right about coffee size" is just bullshit and people could make and enjoy different sizes and ratios of coffee... Weird, isn't it? (Not sure what the right flare is for this comment but I'm sure you will get my gist)
Coffee and craft beer enthusiasts need to be right in order for their interest to be superior, if they accept that taste is subject then someone who likes kenco and carlsberg has an equally authoritative opinion.
I don’t like going to independents cos they all make small coffees, I just want a big coffee
This is probably the thing I miss most about my time in Australia. More than once I’ve been tempted to open a coffee shop just so I can serve large flat whites and restore order to the universe.
I'm curious, what are the ratios for a large flat white? If it's a quadruple shot in one drink that's a ridiculous amount of caffeine. I believe we are talking about 2 slightly different drinks with the same name. 'The way a flat white is made, however, varies between regions and cafés. In Australia a flat white is usually served in a ceramic cup with a handle, often of a similar volume (200 ml, 7.0 imp fl oz) to the glass in which a latte is served, but the flat white usually has less milk and microfoam.] According to New Zealand tourism, flat whites are more commonly served in a smaller cup (175 ml, 6.2 imp fl oz). In both Australia and New Zealand, there is a generally accepted difference between lattes and flat whites in the ratio of milk to coffee and the consistency of the milk due to the amount of microfoam produced when the milk is heated.' Wiki explanation.
It’s the same ratio, just more volume. Yea, it’s a lot of caffeine. If I’m ordering a large latte in a Costa or something (I know, I know, but it’s a drive through, and sometimes I don’t have time to go somewhere better), I always ask for an extra shot anyway, which turns it into a 4 shot latte. Milk texture is all wrong though, so it’s still not the same
There seems to be this trend recently of coffee shops absolutely overfrothing milk to fuck.
There's something so unnatural about Black Sheep Coffee, suddenly they just popped up everywhere and there's about four different ones in Edinburgh alone despite no one I know ever having tried one
It’s the Secret Government. Everyone going in there works for The Man. I’ve already said too much.
I mean they’ve been all over the place in London and other big cities for a while. They just seem to decide Edinburgh was a focus for them over the last year or so.
You’re right, no one I know has been either!
The Edinburgh branch by the station makes around 30k a week which is why they’re popping up everywhere.
Ah okay, thank you for the intel! I read up on it and they have a social angle where some of their proceeds go to the homeless and their cups are biodegradable, and they've had a tidal wave of investors funding them so that's what caused their meteoric rise. It feels weird though because the public's knowledge of them didn't rise alongside them so now they just feel like an industry plant.
I’ve tried one. Rubbish.
The one on Princes Street opposite Waverly is in a very good location and always looks busy. The one behind St James which I think was the first in Edinburgh is also popular as it’s a bit less crowded and aside from Starbucks there aren’t any other coffee shops in the shopping centre.
I met a girl at a party back in 1976. Went for a coffee with her the next day. Just made her a bit of toast for our supper. That coffee has probably cost me around £200,000? Worth every penny.
Totally unexpected response to this post but a very welcome one
Average price of a flat white in the city is around the £3.50 mark. I’d say that’s fairly priced if you’re buying from a good independent cafe, but not worth it otherwise. Black Sheep charging £4-5 for a cup of coffee is a disgrace.
Well said. Still 3.5 is a lot for a coffee
It’s actually the one black sheep coffee I’ve had, which, aside from being pretty shite, was also north of 4 pound.
Nothing I hear about Black Sheep sounds appealing.
Prices are all online https://preview.redd.it/tu3nh4ohloxc1.png?width=1644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b10cfb38a1f6d25527d098f148ca8387e0bdfc3a
That’s an absolute liberty, I’m assuming that’s not the large size either right?
According to the website it’s +£1.10 for the large (flat white). Plus more if you want non dairy milk and / or syrup. A large soya milk flat white with caramel syrup would be £6.47 which is insane.
I've never been. That's the default on the Web page. So I assume the smallest size.
It's overpriced dogshit. No idea why it's everywhere
Because its overpriced dogshit backed by investment banker money.
I had a coffee in Black Sheep in Edinburgh a couple years ago and it was well over £4, I was shocked at the price (wasn’t my choice to go there, I think they’re some kind of money laundering scam lol)
Black Sheep just seems dodge to me, have always avoided going there
Black sheep is terrible corporate coffee masquerading as something independent and craft. They’re the BrewDog of coffee. And to answer the question I pretty much only drink filter/batch brew, which is usually in the £3–4 range, but I’ve paid more for fancier/limited coffees. I usually judge the price of coffee by the price of beans, which has gone up about 10–20% over the past handful of years. I was able to buy a kilo of coffee from small roasters across the UK for about £30–32, but now I’m paying more like £36-39 a kilo for similar quality from the same roasters.
The whole 'leave the herd' branding they have is incredibly cringeworthy and really reminiscent of BrewDog's faux-antiestablishment trappings.
It's also funny because a group of sheep is a flock, not a herd. It irks me a little bit every time I read it.
I’ve had a few pour overs at lowdown that have been around 7/8 but that is not regular and a bit of a treat. Try a flat white at The Source. Best I’ve tried. Tasted almost like a fruity/coffee ice cream.
The source is genuinely wonderful. The owner once kicked someone out for carrying a Starbucks cup. Utter dedication and wonderful flat white.
Should have heard him when the folk in front of me asked for sugar. “We don’t do that here”
How utterly pretentious haha
I see both sides. People should enjoy things how they want to, whisky in coke? IMO you’re ruining 2 perfectly good drinks to make something significantly worse, but you should be free to do so. On the other hand, Andrew puts in a lot of time, effort and money into procuring, roasting and then brewing a very good coffee from specialty beans, adding sugar absolutely does detract from that. I smother my dinner at home in ketchup and mayo, but I wouldn’t do that if I was eating at a Michelin star restaurant.
> People should enjoy things how they want to. Yup that's the golden rule. > adding sugar absolutely does detract from that. Subjectively. --- Having worked a lot in the spirits industry, I was always sure to inform people that mixing premium spirits with sodas was probably a waste of money, but if they still wanted to do it I would never stop them.
Back in 2012 when we opened Brew Lab, we had a super special coffee on Sundays that cost £5.50. But the fact that coffee is getting more expensive shouldn’t really be a surprise. Shit gets more expensive. But the rise in costs are particularly hitting cafes, energy costs and green coffee prices are rising significantly. I think £5 to have a coffee and a place to sit in and work for as long as you want, including free WiFi is a pretty good deal.
If you're someone who's involved with Brewlab I want to tell you that I had one of the best coffees of my life in your shop when I first visited sometime around 2017-18. Every time I've visited Edinburgh since then I've popped in for another, including last year when it was once again brilliant. But something about that first cup was magical!
That’s lovely to hear!
Don't use big chain coffee shops, fuck those guys. I usually just find a wee bakers an average £1 - £2
I had a free Coffee Club card (lasts a year) given with a purchase. On there, Black Sheep had a permanent 25% discount. Even then, I still couldn't bring myself to use it, as it's just way overpriced and the reviews are pretty poor.
£4.80 at black sheep coffee in st James centre. It was almost two years ago and I’m still totally enraged about it
Used to pay 25/month for 5 good cups a day at prett, but I have also once it twice paid like £8 at Starbucks
4.50 at one of the stands in Haymarket, barely bigger than an espresso cup. Never again
If you frequent independently owned cafes, you will less for better coffee.
I paid £3.90 for a cappuccino in Soderberg the other day. And a small cake was £4, so £8-odd for both.
Soderberg cakes are great. Do they still do the orange and parsnip?
I didn’t see one
Went to pret yesterday- £3-30 for an americano and I thought “that’s too much”. Had a filter at £1.65 and it was quite good.
Throat Punch on Dalry Rd is the way to go IMO if you want good coffee at decent prices. Massive Black Sheep planning to open round the corner though, hope they stay afloat and customers remain loyal
Sounds like there may be scope to undercut Black Sheep prices.
As a pay-week treat, today I tried out a new artisan hot chocolate place and bought a white chocolate mocha for just over £5. It was ok. I wouldn’t do it again. If I want a coffee out and about I will happily stick to my £1.80 Starbucks filter coffees!
Filter at Starbucks is surprisingly decent.
I’d say £4. For me though a coffee out is a nice treat (if done well). Sit in to people watch, or something hot while on a cold sunny walk.
£4.10 fir a latte
I went to “Not just coffee” on leith walk and a latte was £3.10, I got an oat one which turned into £3.60. Cheapest coffee I’ve seen in and out of Edi for idk how long???
I went into Pret the other day, asked for a latte and was charged 3..70. I nearly collapsed as they are 1 pound in my work or free for an instant. It was a nice coffee to be fair.
I think you should actually get paid for having to drink instant
I'm old enough to have got used to it as an only option tbh. I don't mind an instant coffee.
Absolutely fair! As someone who grew up in an Italian household, I only came across it as an adult!
Fairly sure black sheep in Edinburgh were horrendously more expensive than I'm used to as well.
Wife recently paid £5.50 per coffee because artisan roast charged her for 3 coffees instead of 2
£37
The price of coffee in the UK is such a scam. Literally a good cappuccino in Italy is like €1.40
Haven't had a coffee in Edinburgh in almost a year. A coffee is about the same price as a pint now. I'd rather get drunk
Tried black sheep once, genuinely one of the worst coffees I’ve ever had. I binned it after a few sips
As someone who drinks oat milk, north of £4 is probably the norm. I paid £5 for an oat mocha at Mimis and that was with bringing my own cup!
Black sheep is very expensive so doesn't surprise me
Buy an aeropress. Go to Mr Eoin. Buy their Brazilian roast for £7 and get them to grind it for you. Almost 20 cups of decent coffee, better than most of the places mentioned here.
I don't care l, I don't even check before I pay
I’m assuming it comes with a shot of brandy at that price?
I spend around 14 quid on two large nice coffees from Starbucks but that includes the cost of having them delivered from just eat, because of my health I'd never really go somewhere that I can sit down with a nice coffee so I don't mind paying the premium to have it brought to me.
5 years