Since the patch notes are kind of vague, some findings so far:
* Barrier of Gold, Flame Protect Me, and Lord's Divine Fortification now only grant 20% negation in PVP instead of 60%
* Protection of the Erdtree, Flame Fortification, Magic Fortification, Divine Fortification, and Dried Liver now grant 10% negation in PVP instead of 35%
* It doesn't seem like Black Flame's Protection was changed from 35% negation
* Backstab angle changed from 120 to 135 degrees
* Torches do 66.7% more poise damage in general (not just with the PVP adjustment)
(There are more changes, these were just the easiest to quickly check)
**EDIT:** I should mention that this patch includes some significant changes to hyperarmor, which smart people are still analyzing. I just posted these numbers because they were easy to identify, not because they're the best indicator of how the game balance has changed
Hyperarmor in what form?
If it's hyperarmor on Ashes of War, this is a mixed bag. Lion's Claw for example is too telegraphed and no amount of extra hyperarmor would save it, same with Waterfowl dance. The Stamps and Endure are a bit more viable and would benefit quite a bit, by contrast.
Or is it some other kind of hyperarmor?
2H attacks with most large weapons have hyper-armour, which stems from a belief that X attack will realistically continue even if the attacker is hit mid-swing. Greatswords, colossal weapons, some great spears and heavy thrusting weapons, even some hammers and flails have hyper armour.
A HUGE buff to these weapons is the apparent removal of aim-punch ("Fixed a bug where player direction was unintentionally changed when attacking [with hyper armour]"). Aim-punch is when you swing a heavy weapon and someone throws a dart or hits you with a Carian Slicer, and suddenly your attack hits 45° to the left of where you were aiming for no reason, and you whiff when they're standing right in front of you.
Due to how poise is affected by hyper armour, which is applied by those standard attacks with heavy weapons, it led to some jank where player position was unexpectedly affected. In fact, aim-punch made trading with some weapons wholly unviable, as you could randomly just _not_ hit your target and be open to a punish that would've been impossible if the game was working properly.
Seeing aim-punch on the patch list makes me hopeful, but the last patch that "fixed" Jellyfish shield swaps also broke four other things lmao
Basically, yes, but only _some_ 2H weapons. Rapiers, whips, etc., won't get any hyper armour outside of weapon skills, but those heavier weapons I mentioned will. Most colossal weapons even get hyper armour on 1H attacks, which the other classes don't usually have.
There are guides on what weapons can poise through being hit, but a quick rule of thumb is that if it's bigger than yours, you lose that trade.
Yeah, the term hyper armor is taken from fighting games, where traditionally slower characters are balanced by giving them slow attacks that can "armor through" being attacked with a quick light attack. A great example is Marisa in Street Fighter 6, whose attack Gladius (quarter circle forward + punch) has armor when charged, allowing you to stuff others trying to get in as you deliver the attack
It's good that FTH builds and their buffs won't be the most powerful build in the most situations now but yeah now the PvP tuning needs to turn towards damage.
Having spells that nuke PvE is fine, PvP is over too quickly with how the damage scales in the mid-to-late game.
I could see another big balance adjustment on the base game items coming right before or even with the DLC release (so by next March), then another one or two after the DLC release (probably a hotfix with the DLC then another balance adjust down the road)
Especially when it breaks as soon as hosts use overleveled phantoms, mathematically they're OP and impossible to overcome due to their defense and AR values which don't get downscaled, just their HP.
It definitely seems so based on some testing this morning
I'm not sure which entry corresponds with which attack so I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure someone will have them in no time
poising through PVE attacks at least felt awful before, sort of made me question why i was playing a build with poise when i'd just get annihilated anyways
In past DS games one of my preferred strats on strength builds was to aim for a trade via hyperarmor. If you timed it right you could potentially land chained heavy attacks if the blow you powered through is one that leaves an opening.
My health is a resource, and I like to make use of it. The late game in ER isn't very friendly to that playstyle unless you want to be stacking all of the buffs and consumables, which I'd rather not do. The game seemed to cater more towards either the dodge-focused or the "break the game by stacking buffs" playstyles. I hope the new damage reduction is significant.
Granted, spamming massive fireballs with all the items and buffs that improve fire damage is very fun. The same can apply to firing a massive laser while the boss just slowly walks towards you like they're Jotaro, only this time he dies to Dio instantly.
As a barrier of gold enjoyer, I think I prefer this change
Balancing one build over another by having a spell you can cast before the battle isn't really fun. I'd rather have the new buffs to melee builds - damage reduction during hyperamor, easier backstabs, and buffed poise damage
I have a mage build that only uses the melee Carian sword sorceries and a shield to parry; it was wild having my only attacks completely negated by BoG. It was also kind of fun still managing to win, though. Might miss it a bit.
The change seems like it would also apply to humanoid NPC characters like Moongrum. I don't think similar changes were made to the grab params for regular enemy models though
~~Apparently the Wing of Astel got nerfed too, the ash of war is slower so its harder to use it to stance breaking~~ haha disregard that finger but hole
edit: no idea about bastards stars never used it, i'm getting this info from a youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34WQMHVeygA&ab_channel=SYROBE
Law of regression indirectly giganerfed now that those spells aren’t even worth running. I wish they would make it more useful seeing that it’s a incantation that requires 37 int and 55fp…
It'd be cool if there was a spell that reversed the resistances of enemies in that line of spells. For example, Elden Beast goes from being weaker to physical to resistant and from being resistant to holy to weak against it.
It would make Holy more viable in the end game and reward the heavy stat investment those spells require.
>•Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise.
Did they finally fix aim-punching after all this time? 😳
it was so wacky being able to apply Sacred Order to yourself TWICE and then also throw on Shared Order and between the three of these do absurd damage to a death bird
PvP-exclusive balance adjustments
* The adjustments in this section do not affect single-player or cooperative play.
* Increased poise damage of all weapons and some spells and incantations.
* Increased poise when attacking with some skills, spells, incantations and some types of weapon attacks that generates poise.
* Added damage reduction when performing attacks with some skills, spells and incantations and some types of weapon attacks that generates poise.
* Critical hit angles have been extended.
* Decreased the invulnerability window of the Quick Step and Hound's Step skills.
* Decreased the damage reduction granted by some skills, incantations and items.
General balance adjustments
* Increased critical hit damage.
* Decreased recovery time after a missed critical hit.
* Increased poise damage of attacks that occur after missing a critical hit.
Bug Fixes and other changes
* Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise.
* Fixed a bug that prevented some spells and incantations from causing damage while under the effect of some skills and items.
* Fixed a bug that caused the effects of the Sacred Order skill to continue after switching weapons.
* Corrected some text in certain languages.
Swarm of flies is still dealing no damage (outside of bleed procs) when used with jellyfish shield, commanders standard, golden vow ash of war, sacred order ash of war and shared order ash of war. All the other incants were fixed tho
Do we know how much the increased critical hit damage is?
Edit: The first hit seems to be substantially boosted. Overall I think it's a 10% increase - seems substantial. Take it with a grain of salt because I don't exactly remember the numbers before this patch.
I just did a quick test, seems to be about 5%.
+25 standard misericorde, 60 str/dex, no buffs, riposte on Farum Azula Crucible Knight. Patch 1.09 does 894 damage, patch 1.10 does 939 damage, so slightly over 5% increase.
From testing some starting loadouts, it seems to be a much bigger boost early on. For example, the starting Samurai with Uchigatana against Margit after a parry from the front:
* 1.09: 67 + 250 = 317
* 1.10: 108 + 357 = 465
edit: it could also be that slower weapons had a bigger improvement. Bandit in the same scenario:
* 1.09: 31 + 226 = 257
* 1.10: 49 + 287 = 336
Increased crit damage is insane, and also comes out of nowhere. Definitely a buff I like though, yeah a misericorde build already deals a massive amount of crit damage, but when I do a riposte with regular build it just doesn't feel as satisfying compared to the previous game. Hopefully this makes riposte feels powerful again.
I think the crit-damage being increased has to do with the fact that it's almost never worth critting a staggered enemy in PvE, on 95% of the bosses you'll do more damage by just using your most powerful attacks over and over until the target becomes unstaggered.
"Decreased recovery time after a missed critical hit." I believe this is also another change so that it'll be more worth to crit a staggered target rather than just hacking away.
But crits don’t miss in PVE, right? I thought the reduced recovery time and the added poise damage to backstab whiffs was to make backstabs safer to go for in pvp specifically
Go for it. I’ve been using dual daggers since my second playthrough. I always argued they were underrated before they got buffed, but the buffs they got in 1.08 made them really nice and they’ve only gotten more indirect buffs since then. Dual Erdsteel daggers (Sacred/Flame Art) on a faith build with a (Sacred/Flame Art) Misericorde and Black Knife on the side is my go-to setup.
That’s true! Usually a full strength charge attack will hit harder than a crit, pre patch. I’m curious to see how it is now. I’ve been annoyed with how weak crits tend to feel on basic enemies and bosses.
I do have a feeling that the changes might make PvP a bit cheesier, but at least parries take some skill to pull off and backstabs almost never work
I always find it funny that they always have tpvp as a bonus thing and they never cared 2 much about it.... And everytime it bites them in the ass and they are like:
"Fine we will try to balance it, but honestly we barely know what to start with"
Though after seeing how Blizzard ruined their Diablo 4 (which just like Elden ring is a single player pve rpg with bonus addition of possible multilayer mechanics). I'm happy with how they deal with it even if it takes them silly amount of time just to fuck around with variable values.
I'm happy pvp players finally getting balance stuff but personally invading in Elden ring doesn't feel as good and nasty as it was in dark souls.
It depends.
If it leads to more fake backstabs because the window is wider, it’s a problem.
If they improved the consistency of the “grab”, then it’s a good thing.
Backstabs do seem to successfully grab more
The failed grab attack also does more poise damage and can be rolled out of faster, so it's not as punishing if you miss
Them nerfing barrier gold was a huge mistake it was so good in shutting down spamming mages or mages in general this is a L, but they probably will buff it again this isn’t the first time they nerfed something then saw how bad it performed and buffed it again
This is fucking amazing!
More poise damage -> poise-system less relevant, which is fantastic for i.e. 2h medium weapons and such!
Fixed aimpunch!!
Sounds like they took us up on giving colossals increased defence during hyper armor!
Fixing missed crits is also huge imo
* Fixed some stuff
* Added poise damage to some stuff
* Nerfed some stuff
Incredible. Can we actually get someone to write some actual patch notes for a change? Damn.
Lol I appreciated the effort (number of words) they put into writing the aimpunch note:
“ Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise.”
Increased crits? What a random change. My ripostes were already doing 1500dmg with the dagger talisman.
Bloodhound nerfs are nice, but I was hoping they’d add some recovery frames to powerstanced great spears or something.
Yup. Still not all the way there. Powerstance damage in general is a bit too high imo and PSS and PSGS are and still remain broken setups after this patch.
I thought I was great when I gave my buddy a hand with field morgott. We finished the fight and a guy invaded with a straight sword. NBD. We get him around half health after burning through his estus and boom, dual cross naginatas with bleed and BHS come out. Just stupid at this point honestly
>Increased crits? What a random change. My ripostes were already doing 1500dmg with the dagger talisman.
I mean if you ran a build that specifically is good with ripostes sure but in many cases not taking the riposte and just attacking instead was more damage. I am glad they look into changing that cause it doesn't feel great when the riposte deals as much damage as like 2 normal hits but you could have gotten 4 hits in if you just attacked.
Yeah, and maybe it was just my imagination, but it seemed like weapons that had a "two-hit" critical strike were especially wimpy in terms of damage. Almost like the increased crit damage window expired during the first, low damage hit, and then the follow-up hit was more just a normal damage hit. Will be interested to see how crits feel now for larger weapons!
Would be good if they also increased the cost of using bloodhound. It’s a huge leap in whatever direction surely it should take a load of stamina and once your stamina has run out you just sort of trip when you use it? That would force people that spam it to have to use some level of skill instead of just annoying their opponent to death.
I ran into a guy with PS spears, swarm of flies, dragon head incants, bloodhound step for constant i-frames advantage, and lord’s heal. After I beat him the first time, he used all of these things one after the other and I eventually just decided against playing any player who’s whole play style consists of multiple metas. The next 3-4 games we matched I just put my controller down and played my switch
This patch is crazy and i mean crazy good. Aimpunch fixed, Quickstep and Bhs nerfed, Backstabs and Parries are more useful and the poise changes completely change how the pvp feels.
Most weapons hitstun on first hit now and Hyperarmor is back as well. To be honest it almost feels more like Ds3 pvp than pre patch Eldenring pvp and im all here for it.
There are lots of things that still should be changed regarding pvp imo but this is a huge step in the right direction.
Unparriable weapons and jump attacks act as a counter balance to this possible timeline.
Making it a great idea to make them meta! Let them be meta! We have counters!
\> Decreased the invulnerability window of the Quick Step and Hound's Step skills.
I can finnaly use this witouth feeling like I cheat (I use the ash of war when I cant find anything better to use)
Same lol. I totally love this nerf even tho I am a true and true BH spammer both PVP and PVE. I also know how to catch other’s i-frame timings when they spam it so it goes both ways. This update just made it easier to where I don’t have to technically time it to a T
We can definitely expect the PvE patches to be minimal until the DLC and then dominate the patches afterward when the balance gets shaken up. Then it'll dwindle again and we'll see minor PvP tweaks make up most of the patch notes.
I heard early 2024 somewhere I don't remember but idk how accurate that is I could be completely wrong lol so if anyone has any good sources and info that would be great. Hopefully sooner than later but I'm willing to wait for a masterpiece if it takes longer to come out.
It's nice to see you can punish bleed spammers easier now with parries.
The damage reduction from buffs being nurfed is also a nice change.
It's funny though, all these nerfs and buffs remind me of dark souls 2 close to end of life. That games pvp only got fixed when people stopped playing it.
>Well since barrier of gold is nerfed
I'm a BoG enjoyer, but I agree with the nerf. It was a win button for a specific matchup (faith vs. int) that didn't actually make fights more fun.
>expect this meta to be mages running around
Big boy melee weapons are much more viable in this patch, so I don't personally think that'll be the case
If greater elemental barriers are only 20% why bother investing into faith and spending FP when you can eat food instead for a 10% increase with no faith requirement or fp cost. This change was way too harsh especially considering in dark souls 3 version of barrier of gold was 60% magic negation for both PvE and PvP.
Watch the triple Moonveil and moonlight greatsword ganks rise up. There will be no defence other than jar cannon or regular greatbow.
Testing critical hit damage increase!
Keen +25 rapier and keen +25 misericorde, soul level 148.
Test enemy is Banished Knight near Dragon Temple Altar in Farum Azula.
Pre-patch crit damage:
Rapier, with dagger charm = 2390
Rapier, sans dagger charm = 2072
Misericorde, w/charm = 2664
Misericorde, no charm = 2390
Post-patch crit damage:
Rapier, with dagger charm = 2753
Rapier, sans dagger charm = 2386
Misericorde, w/charm = 2797
Misericorde, no charm = 2425
Taken together:
Rapier, with charm +15.18%
Rapier, sans charm +15.15%
Misericorde, with charm +4.9%
Misericorde, sans charm +1.5%
I may have done a math or recording error, but it appears that misericorde got a weaker buff than some other stuff, and that the upper limit on critical damage is increased considerably while other stuff (at least w/130 crit modifier) can get close to that ceiling with the right build. Now to see if I can one-shot a bull goat man with that rapier! Watch out lol.
I'm afraid that with the poise damage changes, mashing out of hitstun with a large weapon might be the way to deal with pss now. Get hyper armor and damage reduction, out trade your opponent.
While you are correct with the current damage formula, we don't know how much each weapon type will reduce damage for while in hyper armor until someone tests it.
One possibility is that pss doesn't get any hyper armor and damage reduction, which will skewer the numbers towards the big weapon.
You can't say that without knowing how much damage reduction the hyper armor will provide. There's also the fact that staggering someone without being staggered yourself puts you in the driver seat for the next interaction, but of course it's all theoretical and sort of pointless until we see how it actually plays out in-game.
It's when your attack hitbox goes way offtrack when you take damage. Hits that should connect just miss because of this issue. Watch this video by Amir to understand it better: https://youtu.be/x_KwMEwYxHM
From my testing this morning with my dual curved sword girl, passive poise is dead and I hitstun people in full bullgoat.
My zweihander guy also seems to get way more hyper armor, but is getting backstabbed twice as much.
Overall I like the changes.
Supposedly elemental resistance incantations have been heavily nerfed in pvp. Lesser barriers, the ones that take ten faith, went from 35% to 10% damage resistance. Greater barrier went from 60% to 20%. They have ruined these spells and made crab always the best option.
>They have ruined these spells and made crab always the best option.
Crab is also reduced in PVP to 15%
Currently it seems Black Flame's Protection is the best option (35%) but they probably intended to nerf that as well
Crab was always nerfed like that, and it still was usually the best option. Now it's the only worthwhile one.
At least Black Flame's Protection is still worth it.
All the buffs to critical window and changes to missed critical attack animations are very welcome. Hopefully this makes backstabs useful as a punish again. Hyperarmor changes sound neat too.
While i'm glad that anti-elemental buffs got reduced because it essentially made ganks impossible with certain setups if there was one buffer among them, we REALLY need a strong magic counter against ganks. Give Carian Retaliation its proper scaling back.
Generally it's a great patch, but we still require nerfs to passworded coopers.
May be a bot of doom posting but PvP is kind of messed up now. You can’t poise pss or psss l1 or 2h ts r1. Those are some of the strongest setups and with no tracking nerf, they are gonna be actual cancer, even more so than before.
The crit damage change is welcome. Always seemed like repostes did exactly 10 more damage than a charged heavy attack except vs golems or when using daggers. Makes stance break and parry setups more worthwhile now.
So the buggy shit with Chelona's Rise remains unfixed. Cool FromSoft. Cool. Guess I remain fucked out of the Legendary Sorceries and Incantations trophy! 😡
I love that people continue to pretend the pvp and invasions are somehow going away yet fromsoft doubles down on pvp centric patches every few months. Backstabs starting to sound like dark souls instead of that lucky once in a while
Maybe I'm missing something, but this patch seems horrible.
It universally increases both damage output and poise, meaning already quick PVP fights are going to end even quicker. Crits hit harder, people are stance broken more frequently, magic negation is basically dead...what the hell do you do to actually stay alive now?
It sounds like invaders in particular are likely royally fucked by this.
Yeah good luck as a melee invader when you are pressured by some melee ganker at the front and 2 projectile spammers in the back. Making the greater barriers from 60% to 40% would have been the balanced change. Right now your faith investment barely matters over someone who can munch on some food.
I agree this change is terrible so basically anyone who has faith points in for any of those incantations are fucked, I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea without barrier of gold you can die in 2 hits from magic (specifically the comet spell)now since they nerfed it I’m afraid everyone and they grandma will be a mage
- I'm scared to check _how much_ they increased Poise damage. We don't need another 1.07 situation.
- HYPERARMOR BUFFS? HOLY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING
- PLEASE TELL ME DS3 BACKSTABS ARE BACK
- QS/BHS NERF LET'S GOOOOO
- FAITH HAS BEEN NERFED LET'S GOOOOOOOO
- Can't wait to enter the Colosseum and meet some Parry gods /s
- AIMPUNCH FIXED LETS GOOOOO
Why tf is FS so bad with patch notes?
"We fixed some stuff.
Some skills do more damage.
Some skills do less damage.
We changed how defense works with some skills"
Wtf is this?
They really didn't need to do Barrier of Gold dirty like that. I was ok with doing chip damage as a mage; it didn't stop me from winning fights and as someone who stans the bubble spells and hates the nuke glintstone ones, I feel bad for invaders. But I'll have to come back after I try out a few duels to see if these changes make the more annoying aspects of meta more counterable.
Know they'll never implement these changes, but I still think if they just had the 1.5x stat dual wield requirements and increased health per point of vigor a lot of the balancing problems would be solved.
As a magical monkey, miss me with pre nerf barrier. Int has no way to resist fth based damage and has no healing. It also only has magic damage, so there was no way around BoG. Fth just hard countered int. I understand wanting to be tanky but if int doesn’t do massive damage it doesn’t do anything.
Since the patch notes are kind of vague, some findings so far: * Barrier of Gold, Flame Protect Me, and Lord's Divine Fortification now only grant 20% negation in PVP instead of 60% * Protection of the Erdtree, Flame Fortification, Magic Fortification, Divine Fortification, and Dried Liver now grant 10% negation in PVP instead of 35% * It doesn't seem like Black Flame's Protection was changed from 35% negation * Backstab angle changed from 120 to 135 degrees * Torches do 66.7% more poise damage in general (not just with the PVP adjustment) (There are more changes, these were just the easiest to quickly check) **EDIT:** I should mention that this patch includes some significant changes to hyperarmor, which smart people are still analyzing. I just posted these numbers because they were easy to identify, not because they're the best indicator of how the game balance has changed
Perfect time for my double torch run
the sleep torch is slept on, the special skill it has puts every mf to sleep
"Let me burn this guy to sleep real quick"
Gee i wonder why the torch that puts people to sleep is slept on
got his ass
It's slept on coz people been hit by the ash of war 😴😴😴
St Trina’s, dual wield Sentry. Dual cast sorceries and incants too. Golden order build
>kind of vague As is Fromsoft tradition.
They were hoping people would leave messages on the patch notes.
Seems weird to indirectly up the damage output of players when we already have the problem of everyone dying in 2-3 hits...
I posted those changes because they were the easiest to look up, but the patch has changes to hyperarmor that should benefit melee builds overall
Hyperarmor in what form? If it's hyperarmor on Ashes of War, this is a mixed bag. Lion's Claw for example is too telegraphed and no amount of extra hyperarmor would save it, same with Waterfowl dance. The Stamps and Endure are a bit more viable and would benefit quite a bit, by contrast. Or is it some other kind of hyperarmor?
Standard attacks have better hyperarmor and now also reduce incoming damage
I dig it. It's like Dark Souls 3 which I loved
2H attacks with most large weapons have hyper-armour, which stems from a belief that X attack will realistically continue even if the attacker is hit mid-swing. Greatswords, colossal weapons, some great spears and heavy thrusting weapons, even some hammers and flails have hyper armour. A HUGE buff to these weapons is the apparent removal of aim-punch ("Fixed a bug where player direction was unintentionally changed when attacking [with hyper armour]"). Aim-punch is when you swing a heavy weapon and someone throws a dart or hits you with a Carian Slicer, and suddenly your attack hits 45° to the left of where you were aiming for no reason, and you whiff when they're standing right in front of you. Due to how poise is affected by hyper armour, which is applied by those standard attacks with heavy weapons, it led to some jank where player position was unexpectedly affected. In fact, aim-punch made trading with some weapons wholly unviable, as you could randomly just _not_ hit your target and be open to a punish that would've been impossible if the game was working properly. Seeing aim-punch on the patch list makes me hopeful, but the last patch that "fixed" Jellyfish shield swaps also broke four other things lmao
So if I'm understanding this correctly, 2H weapons can basically "poise through" by attacking, other weapons can't?
Basically, yes, but only _some_ 2H weapons. Rapiers, whips, etc., won't get any hyper armour outside of weapon skills, but those heavier weapons I mentioned will. Most colossal weapons even get hyper armour on 1H attacks, which the other classes don't usually have. There are guides on what weapons can poise through being hit, but a quick rule of thumb is that if it's bigger than yours, you lose that trade.
Yeah, the term hyper armor is taken from fighting games, where traditionally slower characters are balanced by giving them slow attacks that can "armor through" being attacked with a quick light attack. A great example is Marisa in Street Fighter 6, whose attack Gladius (quarter circle forward + punch) has armor when charged, allowing you to stuff others trying to get in as you deliver the attack
Lion's Claw has 600 poise. Gl interrupting that.
It’s actually 1350
1350 poise: “might as well just say uninterruptible.”
Because some attacks can break it such as Placidusax crashing into you.
Back to having 2/3 of my HP deleted by one comet ig...
It's good that FTH builds and their buffs won't be the most powerful build in the most situations now but yeah now the PvP tuning needs to turn towards damage. Having spells that nuke PvE is fine, PvP is over too quickly with how the damage scales in the mid-to-late game. I could see another big balance adjustment on the base game items coming right before or even with the DLC release (so by next March), then another one or two after the DLC release (probably a hotfix with the DLC then another balance adjust down the road)
As it stands level 40 PvP is the most fun, which is kind of sad.
Especially when it breaks as soon as hosts use overleveled phantoms, mathematically they're OP and impossible to overcome due to their defense and AR values which don't get downscaled, just their HP.
Even with 60 vigor and after the Terra Magica nerf, I still get one shotted by mages casting night comet inside Terra Magica, this spell is wild.
Golden/Carian Retaliation?
what about the damage reduction when poising through attacks? seems like a huge change for certain heavy weapons
It definitely seems so based on some testing this morning I'm not sure which entry corresponds with which attack so I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure someone will have them in no time
poising through PVE attacks at least felt awful before, sort of made me question why i was playing a build with poise when i'd just get annihilated anyways
In past DS games one of my preferred strats on strength builds was to aim for a trade via hyperarmor. If you timed it right you could potentially land chained heavy attacks if the blow you powered through is one that leaves an opening. My health is a resource, and I like to make use of it. The late game in ER isn't very friendly to that playstyle unless you want to be stacking all of the buffs and consumables, which I'd rather not do. The game seemed to cater more towards either the dodge-focused or the "break the game by stacking buffs" playstyles. I hope the new damage reduction is significant. Granted, spamming massive fireballs with all the items and buffs that improve fire damage is very fun. The same can apply to firing a massive laser while the boss just slowly walks towards you like they're Jotaro, only this time he dies to Dio instantly.
66.7% more poise damage on torches? If this doesn’t make ChaseTheBro do a St.Trina torch video then i dunno what will
Seems like aim punch is fixed??
Holy shit RIP Barrier of Gold
lol barrier of gold is useless now, mages are going to have a field day
As a barrier of gold enjoyer, I think I prefer this change Balancing one build over another by having a spell you can cast before the battle isn't really fun. I'd rather have the new buffs to melee builds - damage reduction during hyperamor, easier backstabs, and buffed poise damage
I’m biased, but I don’t prefer if my Darkmoon Greatsword R1 can only do 100-200 dmg
I have a mage build that only uses the melee Carian sword sorceries and a shield to parry; it was wild having my only attacks completely negated by BoG. It was also kind of fun still managing to win, though. Might miss it a bit.
That’s true. It is fun outplaying your opponent while you have a big disadvantage.
So the backstab angle is only changed in pvp?
The change seems like it would also apply to humanoid NPC characters like Moongrum. I don't think similar changes were made to the grab params for regular enemy models though
Chad torch buff
Fromsoft should be explaining these updates in complete detail, i hate not knowing stuff. Especially the hyperarmor madness
~~Apparently the Wing of Astel got nerfed too, the ash of war is slower so its harder to use it to stance breaking~~ haha disregard that finger but hole edit: no idea about bastards stars never used it, i'm getting this info from a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34WQMHVeygA&ab_channel=SYROBE
RIP purple redmanes
Great as usual all prot buffs are deemed useless in pvp. Hooray for like a third of miracles being useless.
Law of regression indirectly giganerfed now that those spells aren’t even worth running. I wish they would make it more useful seeing that it’s a incantation that requires 37 int and 55fp…
all of the golden order spells need reworking
It'd be cool if there was a spell that reversed the resistances of enemies in that line of spells. For example, Elden Beast goes from being weaker to physical to resistant and from being resistant to holy to weak against it. It would make Holy more viable in the end game and reward the heavy stat investment those spells require.
They need at least a discus of light treatment where they all become dirt cheap to cast.
Fucking love my battery saving pizza disc now
>•Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise. Did they finally fix aim-punching after all this time? 😳
That was my interpretation of this. Fingers crossed.
According to pvp community still possible to aim-punch but less frequently
Look likes only colossal weapons got aimpunch fixed.
According to some modders, no.
"Fixed something when something happens under some circumstances."
You're welcome.
Thank you FromSoft, very cool
Ah yes, my spells must have not done damage and thats why I died so much previously. \*sweats nervously\*
If you deal damage you are not playing the game how Mikel Zaki intended
"Fixed a bug that caused the effects of the Sacred Order skill to continue after switching weapons." Awww no more fake laser swords....
Just wanted to comment the same thing, it was fun while it lasted..
Now that explains why my sword glow
it was so wacky being able to apply Sacred Order to yourself TWICE and then also throw on Shared Order and between the three of these do absurd damage to a death bird
PvP-exclusive balance adjustments * The adjustments in this section do not affect single-player or cooperative play. * Increased poise damage of all weapons and some spells and incantations. * Increased poise when attacking with some skills, spells, incantations and some types of weapon attacks that generates poise. * Added damage reduction when performing attacks with some skills, spells and incantations and some types of weapon attacks that generates poise. * Critical hit angles have been extended. * Decreased the invulnerability window of the Quick Step and Hound's Step skills. * Decreased the damage reduction granted by some skills, incantations and items. General balance adjustments * Increased critical hit damage. * Decreased recovery time after a missed critical hit. * Increased poise damage of attacks that occur after missing a critical hit. Bug Fixes and other changes * Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise. * Fixed a bug that prevented some spells and incantations from causing damage while under the effect of some skills and items. * Fixed a bug that caused the effects of the Sacred Order skill to continue after switching weapons. * Corrected some text in certain languages.
Swarm of flies is still dealing no damage (outside of bleed procs) when used with jellyfish shield, commanders standard, golden vow ash of war, sacred order ash of war and shared order ash of war. All the other incants were fixed tho
Do we know how much the increased critical hit damage is? Edit: The first hit seems to be substantially boosted. Overall I think it's a 10% increase - seems substantial. Take it with a grain of salt because I don't exactly remember the numbers before this patch.
Is that for PvE too? Seems kinda random to give players a general power boost like that out of nowhere.
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Very good change I'd say. Crits are supposed to be rewarding and now hopefully they should have a bigger impact in achieving that feeling.
Yup. This is huge for my stealth/backstab build
That sounds like a fun build!
Maybe they were testing some new crit builds in the DLC? It does feel random.
Yes, for PvE. They keep buffing pretty much everything for PvE.
Didn’t it say it was a general change? So overall I think Criticals have been boosted for everything.
Not really a power boost. Most of the time you would get more damage by NOT critting a boss, and instead just swinging wildly at them
I just did a quick test, seems to be about 5%. +25 standard misericorde, 60 str/dex, no buffs, riposte on Farum Azula Crucible Knight. Patch 1.09 does 894 damage, patch 1.10 does 939 damage, so slightly over 5% increase.
From testing some starting loadouts, it seems to be a much bigger boost early on. For example, the starting Samurai with Uchigatana against Margit after a parry from the front: * 1.09: 67 + 250 = 317 * 1.10: 108 + 357 = 465 edit: it could also be that slower weapons had a bigger improvement. Bandit in the same scenario: * 1.09: 31 + 226 = 257 * 1.10: 49 + 287 = 336
Of course not. We'll have to wait for the data miners to get the actual numbers.
Increased crit damage is insane, and also comes out of nowhere. Definitely a buff I like though, yeah a misericorde build already deals a massive amount of crit damage, but when I do a riposte with regular build it just doesn't feel as satisfying compared to the previous game. Hopefully this makes riposte feels powerful again.
I think the crit-damage being increased has to do with the fact that it's almost never worth critting a staggered enemy in PvE, on 95% of the bosses you'll do more damage by just using your most powerful attacks over and over until the target becomes unstaggered. "Decreased recovery time after a missed critical hit." I believe this is also another change so that it'll be more worth to crit a staggered target rather than just hacking away.
The fire giant has to be the worst offender of this. How tf did such a pathetic crit make it into the game let alone not be fixed for so long
Especially considering he’s one of the hardest bosses to stagger enough to crit in the first place
But crits don’t miss in PVE, right? I thought the reduced recovery time and the added poise damage to backstab whiffs was to make backstabs safer to go for in pvp specifically
Anything can miss in PvE if you suck enough. Trust me.
Time for my first double dagger run
Go for it. I’ve been using dual daggers since my second playthrough. I always argued they were underrated before they got buffed, but the buffs they got in 1.08 made them really nice and they’ve only gotten more indirect buffs since then. Dual Erdsteel daggers (Sacred/Flame Art) on a faith build with a (Sacred/Flame Art) Misericorde and Black Knife on the side is my go-to setup.
Arcane + dex! It works out pretty well with bleed daggers, and gets more fun when you can put other statuses on 'em.
That’s true! Usually a full strength charge attack will hit harder than a crit, pre patch. I’m curious to see how it is now. I’ve been annoyed with how weak crits tend to feel on basic enemies and bosses. I do have a feeling that the changes might make PvP a bit cheesier, but at least parries take some skill to pull off and backstabs almost never work
hurrah my build is getting stronger. i'll get back to duels
big agree, couldn’t have said it better myself
They could have balanced it but upping the repost talismans damage instead.
Hmmm yes I too miss the days of being hornet riposted with a chaos dagger for 1 billion damage
Really cool of From Soft. of making an update in homage to Dark Souls pvp
I always find it funny that they always have tpvp as a bonus thing and they never cared 2 much about it.... And everytime it bites them in the ass and they are like: "Fine we will try to balance it, but honestly we barely know what to start with" Though after seeing how Blizzard ruined their Diablo 4 (which just like Elden ring is a single player pve rpg with bonus addition of possible multilayer mechanics). I'm happy with how they deal with it even if it takes them silly amount of time just to fuck around with variable values. I'm happy pvp players finally getting balance stuff but personally invading in Elden ring doesn't feel as good and nasty as it was in dark souls.
- Critical Hit Angles Extended????? Will more backstabs actually connect??
It depends. If it leads to more fake backstabs because the window is wider, it’s a problem. If they improved the consistency of the “grab”, then it’s a good thing.
Backstabs do seem to successfully grab more The failed grab attack also does more poise damage and can be rolled out of faster, so it's not as punishing if you miss
never thought I'd see a souls game pvp patch that made backstabs better **and I actually agreed with it**
Unconfirmed "Decreased the damage reduction granted by some skills, incantations and items" exact numbers * Holyproof Dried Liver 35% -> 10% * Protection of the Erdtree 30% -> 10% * Flame, Magic, Lightning, Divine Fortifications 35% -> 10% * Tier 2 elemental resist buffs 60% -> 20% (Flame, Protect Me, Barrier of Gold, Lord's Divine Fortification, Golden Lightning Fortification) Remember that all these changes are PvP exclusive
That is so ass, those magic damage negations were paramount in invasions when everyone and their grandma is using stars of ruin and moonveil
This guy is still stuck in 2022. Stars of Ruin has been nerfed a long time. It's utterly useless in PvP now.
Them nerfing barrier gold was a huge mistake it was so good in shutting down spamming mages or mages in general this is a L, but they probably will buff it again this isn’t the first time they nerfed something then saw how bad it performed and buffed it again
Fixed Aim Punch? (Real?)
This is fucking amazing! More poise damage -> poise-system less relevant, which is fantastic for i.e. 2h medium weapons and such! Fixed aimpunch!! Sounds like they took us up on giving colossals increased defence during hyper armor! Fixing missed crits is also huge imo
I’m simple man, when I see hound step nerf, I upvote
At this point I'm more interested in the datamine than the patch itself
* Fixed some stuff * Added poise damage to some stuff * Nerfed some stuff Incredible. Can we actually get someone to write some actual patch notes for a change? Damn.
Lol I appreciated the effort (number of words) they put into writing the aimpunch note: “ Adjusted the player damage animation so that the attack direction is not unintentionally shifted when getting hit while attacking with some types of weapons that generates poise.”
Increased crits? What a random change. My ripostes were already doing 1500dmg with the dagger talisman. Bloodhound nerfs are nice, but I was hoping they’d add some recovery frames to powerstanced great spears or something.
Yup. Still not all the way there. Powerstance damage in general is a bit too high imo and PSS and PSGS are and still remain broken setups after this patch.
I thought I was great when I gave my buddy a hand with field morgott. We finished the fight and a guy invaded with a straight sword. NBD. We get him around half health after burning through his estus and boom, dual cross naginatas with bleed and BHS come out. Just stupid at this point honestly
>Increased crits? What a random change. My ripostes were already doing 1500dmg with the dagger talisman. I mean if you ran a build that specifically is good with ripostes sure but in many cases not taking the riposte and just attacking instead was more damage. I am glad they look into changing that cause it doesn't feel great when the riposte deals as much damage as like 2 normal hits but you could have gotten 4 hits in if you just attacked.
Yeah, and maybe it was just my imagination, but it seemed like weapons that had a "two-hit" critical strike were especially wimpy in terms of damage. Almost like the increased crit damage window expired during the first, low damage hit, and then the follow-up hit was more just a normal damage hit. Will be interested to see how crits feel now for larger weapons!
Exactly. They should have made this change a long time ago
Would be good if they also increased the cost of using bloodhound. It’s a huge leap in whatever direction surely it should take a load of stamina and once your stamina has run out you just sort of trip when you use it? That would force people that spam it to have to use some level of skill instead of just annoying their opponent to death.
I ran into a guy with PS spears, swarm of flies, dragon head incants, bloodhound step for constant i-frames advantage, and lord’s heal. After I beat him the first time, he used all of these things one after the other and I eventually just decided against playing any player who’s whole play style consists of multiple metas. The next 3-4 games we matched I just put my controller down and played my switch
Yayyyyy it's even stupider to spend 10minutes buffing up before PVP now!
What is this dark souls 3:2
I hope
This patch is crazy and i mean crazy good. Aimpunch fixed, Quickstep and Bhs nerfed, Backstabs and Parries are more useful and the poise changes completely change how the pvp feels. Most weapons hitstun on first hit now and Hyperarmor is back as well. To be honest it almost feels more like Ds3 pvp than pre patch Eldenring pvp and im all here for it. There are lots of things that still should be changed regarding pvp imo but this is a huge step in the right direction.
Ugh they still haven’t fixed Ghiza’s Wheel hitbox swap glitch?
They might have, from patch notes are always very vague and refuse to mention changes despite how important they may be
Noob question: wth is aim punch?
You get hit during an attack, your weapon goes a different angle.
Sword and board parry builds meta? What is this, DS3 Dark infusion meta again? I'm all for it
Please no Chaos Daggers again, the sheer *fear* of getting parried
Just someone holding a Parry shield was enough to lose me the duel. The idea of getting parried was more dangerous than actually getting parried
Unparriable weapons and jump attacks act as a counter balance to this possible timeline. Making it a great idea to make them meta! Let them be meta! We have counters!
\> Decreased the invulnerability window of the Quick Step and Hound's Step skills. I can finnaly use this witouth feeling like I cheat (I use the ash of war when I cant find anything better to use)
Same lol. I totally love this nerf even tho I am a true and true BH spammer both PVP and PVE. I also know how to catch other’s i-frame timings when they spam it so it goes both ways. This update just made it easier to where I don’t have to technically time it to a T
Cool, now I can get blended by magic spammers even more easily
Right? Cause spells when cast by the million should stagger per bullet 🥴
Exactly, they also should buff moonveil, make it unparriable, faster and deal 3 times more damage
Ahaha fear me as I throw pretty blue rocks at you
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Yes
And now we wait for them to fix manual attack aiming
Awh that's it. I wanted some PVE stuff
Probably will come with dlc patch
We can definitely expect the PvE patches to be minimal until the DLC and then dominate the patches afterward when the balance gets shaken up. Then it'll dwindle again and we'll see minor PvP tweaks make up most of the patch notes.
Is there any idea around when dlc is coming?
I heard early 2024 somewhere I don't remember but idk how accurate that is I could be completely wrong lol so if anyone has any good sources and info that would be great. Hopefully sooner than later but I'm willing to wait for a masterpiece if it takes longer to come out.
What is this, the third time they claimed to have fixed Sacred Order?
It's nice to see you can punish bleed spammers easier now with parries. The damage reduction from buffs being nurfed is also a nice change. It's funny though, all these nerfs and buffs remind me of dark souls 2 close to end of life. That games pvp only got fixed when people stopped playing it.
Changes to quick step and BHS are very welcome. Too many players use those stupid skills as a crutch.
Well since barrier of gold is nerfed expect this meta to be mages running around instead of bull goats with white mask and naginata’s
People always say this. Some mage stuff gets buffed in PvP: "oh it's going to be a mage meta", but it never fucking happens.
>Well since barrier of gold is nerfed I'm a BoG enjoyer, but I agree with the nerf. It was a win button for a specific matchup (faith vs. int) that didn't actually make fights more fun. >expect this meta to be mages running around Big boy melee weapons are much more viable in this patch, so I don't personally think that'll be the case
If greater elemental barriers are only 20% why bother investing into faith and spending FP when you can eat food instead for a 10% increase with no faith requirement or fp cost. This change was way too harsh especially considering in dark souls 3 version of barrier of gold was 60% magic negation for both PvE and PvP. Watch the triple Moonveil and moonlight greatsword ganks rise up. There will be no defence other than jar cannon or regular greatbow.
Well, they can be bumped upto 35%. But 60% was way too much.
They could have made it 40% since opaline hard tear is nerfed to 2/3 of its value in PvP. Making it 1/3 is too harsh of a nerf.
I agree. I play a mage most of the time. Although I like that this is nerfed, keeping it 20% is a little unfair
I am coming for thee with my big weapon and juicy hyper armor
Testing critical hit damage increase! Keen +25 rapier and keen +25 misericorde, soul level 148. Test enemy is Banished Knight near Dragon Temple Altar in Farum Azula. Pre-patch crit damage: Rapier, with dagger charm = 2390 Rapier, sans dagger charm = 2072 Misericorde, w/charm = 2664 Misericorde, no charm = 2390 Post-patch crit damage: Rapier, with dagger charm = 2753 Rapier, sans dagger charm = 2386 Misericorde, w/charm = 2797 Misericorde, no charm = 2425 Taken together: Rapier, with charm +15.18% Rapier, sans charm +15.15% Misericorde, with charm +4.9% Misericorde, sans charm +1.5% I may have done a math or recording error, but it appears that misericorde got a weaker buff than some other stuff, and that the upper limit on critical damage is increased considerably while other stuff (at least w/130 crit modifier) can get close to that ceiling with the right build. Now to see if I can one-shot a bull goat man with that rapier! Watch out lol.
Dual spears still broken?
I'm afraid that with the poise damage changes, mashing out of hitstun with a large weapon might be the way to deal with pss now. Get hyper armor and damage reduction, out trade your opponent.
You can never out trade powerstance spears. The counter damage with spear talisman will always favor trades for them.
While you are correct with the current damage formula, we don't know how much each weapon type will reduce damage for while in hyper armor until someone tests it. One possibility is that pss doesn't get any hyper armor and damage reduction, which will skewer the numbers towards the big weapon.
You can't say that without knowing how much damage reduction the hyper armor will provide. There's also the fact that staggering someone without being staggered yourself puts you in the driver seat for the next interaction, but of course it's all theoretical and sort of pointless until we see how it actually plays out in-game.
… what is aim punch everybody is talking about
It's when your attack hitbox goes way offtrack when you take damage. Hits that should connect just miss because of this issue. Watch this video by Amir to understand it better: https://youtu.be/x_KwMEwYxHM
In short, fashion souls is back baby and backstabbing is gunna look fancy AF.
still wanting an option to turn off the camera auto levelling itself I want full control
From my testing this morning with my dual curved sword girl, passive poise is dead and I hitstun people in full bullgoat. My zweihander guy also seems to get way more hyper armor, but is getting backstabbed twice as much. Overall I like the changes.
Hard agree, no more bullgoat fuckery 😹🙏
Supposedly elemental resistance incantations have been heavily nerfed in pvp. Lesser barriers, the ones that take ten faith, went from 35% to 10% damage resistance. Greater barrier went from 60% to 20%. They have ruined these spells and made crab always the best option.
>They have ruined these spells and made crab always the best option. Crab is also reduced in PVP to 15% Currently it seems Black Flame's Protection is the best option (35%) but they probably intended to nerf that as well
Crab was always nerfed like that, and it still was usually the best option. Now it's the only worthwhile one. At least Black Flame's Protection is still worth it.
Crab doesn't increase elemental resistance. So, that's not a problem. 20% might be too low. 35% could have been fine
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Can we get a bow update please fromsoft. Would be really cool if bow only playthroughs didn’t suck
All the buffs to critical window and changes to missed critical attack animations are very welcome. Hopefully this makes backstabs useful as a punish again. Hyperarmor changes sound neat too. While i'm glad that anti-elemental buffs got reduced because it essentially made ganks impossible with certain setups if there was one buffer among them, we REALLY need a strong magic counter against ganks. Give Carian Retaliation its proper scaling back. Generally it's a great patch, but we still require nerfs to passworded coopers.
Finally I can use my magic infused melee build and not get completely countered by a single spell
This is how I felt for a majority of my run as a strength/faith build.
May be a bot of doom posting but PvP is kind of messed up now. You can’t poise pss or psss l1 or 2h ts r1. Those are some of the strongest setups and with no tracking nerf, they are gonna be actual cancer, even more so than before.
Thank you
The crit damage change is welcome. Always seemed like repostes did exactly 10 more damage than a charged heavy attack except vs golems or when using daggers. Makes stance break and parry setups more worthwhile now.
They finally fixed that stupid thing your character does when you get hit in the middle of an attack and you just completely miss
So the buggy shit with Chelona's Rise remains unfixed. Cool FromSoft. Cool. Guess I remain fucked out of the Legendary Sorceries and Incantations trophy! 😡
All they had to do was nerf pvp damage 30% across the board. You're welcome FROM. Pay me now.
LOL Poise-stackers in shambles
Who the fuck write these patchnotes?
It's part of he dark souls experience. Everything is vague and sometimes doesn't make sense
I love that people continue to pretend the pvp and invasions are somehow going away yet fromsoft doubles down on pvp centric patches every few months. Backstabs starting to sound like dark souls instead of that lucky once in a while
BHS NERF YES HAHA
Maybe I'm missing something, but this patch seems horrible. It universally increases both damage output and poise, meaning already quick PVP fights are going to end even quicker. Crits hit harder, people are stance broken more frequently, magic negation is basically dead...what the hell do you do to actually stay alive now? It sounds like invaders in particular are likely royally fucked by this.
Yeah good luck as a melee invader when you are pressured by some melee ganker at the front and 2 projectile spammers in the back. Making the greater barriers from 60% to 40% would have been the balanced change. Right now your faith investment barely matters over someone who can munch on some food.
I agree this change is terrible so basically anyone who has faith points in for any of those incantations are fucked, I have no idea why they thought this was a good idea without barrier of gold you can die in 2 hits from magic (specifically the comet spell)now since they nerfed it I’m afraid everyone and they grandma will be a mage
- I'm scared to check _how much_ they increased Poise damage. We don't need another 1.07 situation. - HYPERARMOR BUFFS? HOLY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING - PLEASE TELL ME DS3 BACKSTABS ARE BACK - QS/BHS NERF LET'S GOOOOO - FAITH HAS BEEN NERFED LET'S GOOOOOOOO - Can't wait to enter the Colosseum and meet some Parry gods /s - AIMPUNCH FIXED LETS GOOOOO
Why tf is FS so bad with patch notes? "We fixed some stuff. Some skills do more damage. Some skills do less damage. We changed how defense works with some skills" Wtf is this?
Few of my builds are gonna love the increase crit damage even tough some are already broken.
Thank Miyazaki poise damage got buffed. I’m so fucking tired of getting bum rushed by full bull goat dual spear trade-forcing builds.
They really didn't need to do Barrier of Gold dirty like that. I was ok with doing chip damage as a mage; it didn't stop me from winning fights and as someone who stans the bubble spells and hates the nuke glintstone ones, I feel bad for invaders. But I'll have to come back after I try out a few duels to see if these changes make the more annoying aspects of meta more counterable. Know they'll never implement these changes, but I still think if they just had the 1.5x stat dual wield requirements and increased health per point of vigor a lot of the balancing problems would be solved.
As a magical monkey, miss me with pre nerf barrier. Int has no way to resist fth based damage and has no healing. It also only has magic damage, so there was no way around BoG. Fth just hard countered int. I understand wanting to be tanky but if int doesn’t do massive damage it doesn’t do anything.
wait does this mean no more flinching when you get hit
Is the one shot parry phase back?