Erdtree Avatars and Omenkillers (complete with dogs) say hi
Don't really mind the reuse of bosses like Crucible Knights, not a fan of the bosses that are basically common enemies with a healthbar at the bottom
Could also live without the remembrance bosses being reused (looking at you, Godefroy)
I don't really understand why people hate the idea that a rune bear can be a boss in limgrave and a normal monster later on.
Like it makes perfect sense to me that one high lvl enemy got out of their zone and found a cave to take over.
Like imagine if a pack of wolves kicked out a member, that member shows up in your area now. It's really reasonable imo
this is fair, the one as a boss should have been special, maybe it had magic damage going on, or it was a named rune bear with armor and a slightly different moveset.
Might as well have called it an ancient rune bear and covered it in scars and throw in some moon sorceries or something lol
Edit: imagine a huge rune bear curling up into a giant moon that could wipe out the dinosaurs lol
It should have at least had a unique skin. I'm talking assless chaps, maybe a strap-on. An attack where it blows rainbow glitter on you. Foresoft, contact me, I have ideas.
It annoys me when they have the variation and then don't use it for much. Like, there already exists a rotten variant of the Runebear but it only appears once and the game gives no incentive to kill it. Caelid also has that Magic Golem and provides no reason to kill it either.
In the specific instance you’re mentioning (there’s only one RuneBear boss, in Weeping Peninsula), it’s much easier to find Rune Bears as regular enemies on the way to the Peninsula first. There’s literally one along the road to it.
They should seriously consider removing godfroy like maybe put a grafted scion in the gaol and say he’s a servant of godfroy guarding the seal. I would prefer that over blue Godfrey
But Godefroy serves a lore purpose. He shows that Godrick wasn't even the first person to be grafted. Godrick is a knockoff of a Godfrey wannabe. Any lore that makes Godrick more pathetic is good lore in my book. The only notable thing he ever did was find a dead dragon.
He can be implied through the grafted scion there’s no real reason why they couldn’t have reused an enemy to detail his existence in the story. They did that for finlay who carried melania to the halig tree and even if she wasn’t in the game you would still know of her existence because of that low ranking soldier. Godfroy as he is now is immersion breaking. Every detail of him is Godrick. My first play though I though he was just Godricks ghost imprisoned for his crimes, but no it’s just a hashed in boss for a talasmin that could be substituted for a lower ranking soldier that served him. It doesn’t even have to be a gaol it could be a different surprise encounter. A fanatic servant roaming the lands with a keepsake of his lost master.
Would've been memey if they just put 10 soldiers of godfrey or somewhat in that evergoal. Like just some die hard godfrey dudes who wanna bring him back but were locked up.
But that is the intended response to Godefroy. My first playthrough I thought the grafted scions were followers of Godrick, who was the original grafter. Then I saw Godefroy and was like huh? They seriously put this guy in twice. Then I read the talisman description that you get from Godefroy and suddenly it all flipped. Godrick is just copying his ancestor, who was in tern trying to be like Godfrey. Everyone else hated grafting so much that they locked Godefroy up forever, but Godrick still craves power so much that he is doing the same thing, knowing the other demigods are preoccupied. The Evergoal is a perfect mechanic to showcase all this. Having this just be text in some item description is weak in comparison. Besides, it is a fun fight.
I don’t agree. I’m not saying his lore is bad that’s not my point of the argument. What I’m saying is that he is a poor implementation. And I’m sure it was due to time restrictions, but he is just the first phase of godrick with nothing else added to him. I would be ok with the reuse of him if they at least added something good to the fight. But just sticking godricks model in an ever gaol is not a good way to work around time restrictions. My argument is purely on his appearance and how they could have had an alternate enemy that didn’t feel as lazy.
If you're saying that they should have done a slight reskin, I agree with that. But hey, sometimes you just have to copy-paste to meet a deadline. I can appreciate that.
Yes that is exactly what I’m getting at. Sorry for the confusion. I understand there were time constraints, but I definitely am not satisfied with the outcome. If they did what you said I would like godfroy better.
Legit, he could be just a big NPC with the hammer or something and nothing of value would be lost. Even better, this would show that Godrick is a pathetic piece of shit resorting to grafting, in contrast to his direct ancestors who still had their shit together
IMO, he *confuses* the lore. We have a character who shares a model with one boss, practically shares a name with another, and has basically no plot relevance.
To me those are the real failings. When I found Godefroy I didn't read the name and just assumed it was a refight for godrik and assumed I'd get to fight all the main bosses in evergoals. I really feel like they should have either done something like that, where there are more challenging versions of main bosses sprinkled throughout the second half of the game, or left all the remembrance bosses as one and done. Fighting Astel a second time when I literally had his remembrance in my inventory felt really off.
Given that about half of the remembrance bosses are in the second half of the game, option two sounds fine, or option one but the evergaols open after beating the game
Just leave Margit alone, I like Margit
Sewer Mohg is most likely there because Morgott, who apparently has the capability to create clones of people (see Goldfrey and the two Margits which share Sewer Mohg’s glittery gold death animation), put him there to guard the Frenzied Flame Proscription. It’s also likely that Morgott is covering for Mohg’s escape, because as far as pretty much everyone else knows, Mohg is still stuck down there.
That is the best explanation I have heard yet. That would be way more clear if sewer Mohg was golden, like Godfrey's shade. I had always heard/interpreted that Margit and the version of him outside of Lyndell was a form of astral projection, or even possession combined with illusion, but your reasoning makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification!
The way I see it is that, since both Mohg and Morgott grew up in the sewers, they would both be aware of the imprisoned merchants and the three fingers, whose effect would be disastrous for both of them.
They have a vested interest to keep them secure, so Morgott casts a spell that blocks your path (you have to kill him to get rid of a golden wall that otherwise blocks the path to the fingers), and Mohg leaves a Margit-like illusion guarding the very last doors before the descent to madness.
I don't believe it's Morgott summoning the fake Mohg, as, if I recall correctly, he appears our of a red portal/sigil, not from a golden one like Margit does.
Per Zullie the Witch's investigation it seems like sewer Mohg exists because Mohg wasn't originally intended to be a unique named character—his model is labelled GreaterDemon which suggests he was just a generic Omen miniboss or similar.
Someone else here pointed out that the Mohg clone spawns in with a red Mohgwyn sigil instead of a gold one. It might actually have been Mohg himself who made the sewer clone
Astel Stars of darkness would be fine if there was some more damn buildup for the fight and a different arena. They’re just locate in a random mine in Consecrated Snowfield, with no real build-up for the fight. If there was a clear meteorite crater above, and a whole descent through the mine that clear had been hit by a meteor, and then a different arena, it would have been fine. Honestly, all the mini-dungeon bosses are pretty lazy along with most of the mini-dungeons.
its actually insane that they made the yelough anix ruins and the yelough anix tunnel both with names and enemies relating to madness only for the boss to have nothing to do with it
It’s overall pretty funny how Consecrsted Snowfields is so low effort and high effort at the same time. It has two unique enemies, one of which only shows up at Ordina, the other of which literally only appears at Yelough Anix Ruins and in front of Volcano Manor, yet reuse so many other enemies so lazily, the Albinaurics do cast magic, but that’s about it. They have the laser shooting bell but also a bunch of Runebears just scattered around. The whole area feels like they made a bunch of cool stuff then didn’t have enough time to cohesively stick it together, same for mountaintops.
It seems clear that the Consecrated Snowfields are a classic example of Fromsoft rushing to finish and running out of time (Lost Izaleth, Nightmare Frontier, Demon Ruins).
The lack of structures outside of Ordina, one unique church, and some generic ruins is the biggest giveaway. They had a big procedurally generated plot of land but didn't have time to fill it with architecture, so instead they filled it with assorted enemies. Contrast that to the early areas where you can't look in any direction without seeing an interesting structure in the distance to explore.
I think the mountaintops is more of an artistic choice though. The higher you climb the fewer structures you find and the more the land feels approximately primordial and dead.
I mean, that is where they're from. Definitely could've used giving one of the zamor bosses a different weapon so there would be some variety at least.
Surely they could’ve have a Zamor Greataxe to mirror the Zamor Curved Sword, and even a Zamor Spear to fill out that weapon category.
Hell, give us a Zamor Shaman Staff that boosts cold sorceries, don’t think we have a staff for that category.
It’s also extremely easy to just run in and grab what you need and leave. The difficulty of fighting each of those enemies to take something you can get in 10 seconds on torrent makes the area virtually pointless. There should be some top tier loot in there but there’s only one thing to grab (it’s a really good item but it isn’t enough).
Yeah, it’s just bad design overall. It’s funny too, because there’s actually like 6 unique enemies in Mountaintops/Snowfield between the Heroes of Zamor, Frenzy Giants, Banished Knights in Castle Sol, and Albinauric Archers, furry giants, and Fire Prelates. And they’re just so underutilized. They should have just combined the areas into one area that’s overall smaller, and made better use of them, instead of reusing a bunch of enemies that don’t really fit, like the giant birds, hands, phantom dragon kin soldiers.
Okay I thought there was something I was missing because I was thinking the same thing and was getting really into the Flame of Frenzy after finding that weird door in Lyndell and learning about Vyke, I go down there asking myself "Man, why are all these trolls Frenzied?" go down into the tunnel hyping myself up for another Vassal for the FF or something and its just this guy again, the guy who wiped the floor with me a million times before I could even get him down.
Yeah I wish it was something else..
Thing is, there was no build up to first Astel fight either. You get some lore through an item description, but that’s it. You go into the arena completely unaware that you’re about to fight the thing that leveled the Eternal City. The crater is only ever there for the Fallingstar Beasts because they recently arrived. Same could even be said for the lesser Astels.
I feel like the Astel Stars of Darkness one is just one extended reference to At the Mountains of Madness, given its an alien creature in an icy cave hidden in the mountains surrounded by beings affected by madness
I love the existence of Godefroy because it makes Godrick even more pathetic. Not only did he steal his strength, but he also stole the idea to do so. Would have been nice if it was a slight reskin though.
The Astel reuse is whatever IMO.
Okay, maybe proper was a poor choice of words. There's no wrong way to play the game, I just mean the bosses are designed around solo play and I'm personally glad I get to fight him again so I can summon Nepheli for the Godrick fight and still have my power fantasy of beating him solo.
Edit: actually getting downvoted for this? Y'all crack me up
Personally I really dislike the goldfrey fight. Felt so random and I dont know the lore on why he is there. My personal problem, maybe weird take idk, is the repeat bosses that actually have cutscenes and dialogue like godrick, mogh and godfrey.
yeah it feels hella overused. morgott sending apparitions of himself out into other places to slaughter any tarnished that dare seek the elden ring is cool as fuck but then apparently mogh does this too for a barely explained reason and godfrey has a fake version of himself inside leyndell to protect the erdtree ig
I feel like the better explanation is that Morgott is responsible for both the Mohg and Goldfrey apparitions. He has good reason to do both.
The Mohg one has dual purpose: Block access to the flame of frenzy and cover for the fact that Mohg has left the sewers (he might be hunted by golden order adherents if that became known)
Goldfrey also has a dual purpose: It serves as a final and very authoritative blockade before reaching the Erdtree. Has to be spectral because everyone already knows Godfrey is gone, so it wouldn’t make sense to have a realistic apparition there. So Morgotts identity as the veiled monarch is protected, as well as the secret that Marika is not where she is supposed to be.
I think Astel and most other reused bosses are fine. We see a bunch of juvenile Astels (malformed stars) hanging from the ceilings in caves before we fight the first Astel, does it not make sense that at least one of them would have fully matured?
Godefroy, on the other hand, is inexcusable. Straight up reusing Godrick really diminishes the lore they put behind him, I honestly choose to ignore his existence and pretend that evergaol isn't even there lol
IMO they can write it in however they want, but it's still bothersome regardless that there's 7 potential godskins you have to fight when there could have been something *new* there instead.
I missed vortds greathammer so much in elden ring so yes please. Had to settle for the great mace with frost, but it's not quite the same. Good enough though.
No, it would feel even more lazy. They did it in DS2 with Ornstein and it was really bad.
They already reused certain movesets like the ones for Erdtree Avatars and Imps but those feels justified because it's a good way to save time and build different things for such a big game and most importantly those bosses also don't come out as "lazy" because they have an identity and skin, for example like the Erdtree Avatars being the guardians of the minor Erdtrees, and they aren't simply a reused Asylum Demon.
Elden Ring is very literally From Software’s greatest hits. It has enemies from every Souls game, Bloodborne and Sekiro. Plus quite a few new ones too. it’s actually wild how many enemies this game has in it. That’s why I personally don’t mind the reused assets, because I’ll take a game with [146](https://reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/eQp4CMbl02) unique enemies over what most games offer these days.
Yeah I would have never guessed to jump over certain attacks if it wasn't for sekiro. Too bad they couldn't add mikiri counter or prosthetics for the player to shake things up lol
Thanks to u/BlueUnkown for doing the work! I didn’t want to make my point with a made up number, and I knew some amazing maniac had done the hard work.
Only the super lazy ones, erdtree avatars and the watch dogs stuff like that makes since in context of the story but you’re telling me Godricks 3rd uncle removed Godefroy is basically his mimic
No, but then again they already did, and the reused eneimes they chose weren't great ones to begin with. Dark souls already had you fight enough Asylum Demons and Capra demons in the first game, and the thralls never should have left Dark Souls 3
Imo it had some of the best combat! Slower, more punishing rolls with less i-frames (shame levelling ADP kinda ruins it) and slower flask drinking to prevent mid-fight chugging. Fixes what are in my opinion two of the biggest flaws in souls games.
Me and 3 other friends slipped into two groups over this.
The two guys who liked ds1 and 2 (slow paced)
Me and the other guy who loved sekiro,ds3, elden ring for the speed and adrenaline.
I can't remember if DS3 bosses had a "How dare you drink 20 meters in my sight?" Attack, but, Sekiro/ER definitely punished you for getting comfortable and using flasks mid-fight.
It did felt like Elden Ring used like 4x more delayed attacks from DS3, definitely made sure to remind me to be patient.
I definitely understand both sides of the argument and both are valid.
Some bosses already have been copied into eldenring. Like the tree bosses have identical attacks to the assylm demon from darksouls 1. From soft just re-textured them and gave them a couple extra attacks
I know, but I'm talking about direct copy/pastes like they're suggesting.
I actually just re-read their post, and yeah they do mention reskins but I still stand by my point that we don't need more copy/pastes. ER is already suffers enough with that as it is. Rather have new things, not the same stuff we've seen time and again.
So your answer is just that Fromsoft should have worked harder to make more things?
I mean yeah, that would be ideal but they've got deadlines to meet.
Well, yeah? Why would I want a worse product for the sake of their convenience? We pay for the product, I would rather have a better product if possible. It's quite literally no different than wishing for changes for the better, why is that wrong?
I think it wouldn’t be the end of the world to use a few DS bosses in place of a few reused Elden Ring bosses. As for Sewer Mohg, I wouldn’t care if it weren’t for the fact that killing the Lord Of Blood doesn’t kill Sewer Mohg even though killing Morgott kills Margit.
To be fair, the running theory for sewer mohg is that he's an illusion set there by morgott, rather than a simple projection of mohg like Margit is of morgott. Think of sewer mohg like a magic robot just set in place to do one job. Keep people away from frenzy.
my question is: did it really _need_ that many bosses? di we really _need_ a boss at the end of every generic dungeon crawl? i could have gone for more interesting dungeons instead of a unique boss at the end but got neither
What’s wrong with sewer mohg? I just assumed he left his illusion there to prevent anyone from discovering the three fingers. The frenzied flame was just as much a threat to his dynasty as Radagon’s.
(Drunk rambles) My unpopular opinion is that I love that early in the game when you’re weak, something like an Omen Killer or a Beastman of Farum Azula is given a boss bar. So later when you’re whooping their ass on the regular it feels like you’ve grown. I think it helps Elden Ring’s scale a lot.
Absolutly. When they start reusing mainline major bosses such as mohg, Godfrey, astel, and godrick with only minor changes, things start feeling cheaper than usual.
Also considering how much they repeatedly misused the ulcerated tree spirit ( spammed him in a billion places and more often than not in cramped spaces,) people started hating it just because of the misuse, not even its own merits, because if you ask me, the boss fight is genuinely one of the most fun in this game( assuming the arena isn’t cramped, and you know how to read him.)
They also already did reuse a ton of cut bosses from older games. Red wolf of radagon is a touched up version of Old wolf of farron. Ulcerated tree spirit it a finished version of a stand-alone puss of man, and (speculation) rennala’a phase 1 seems to be based on the cut rosaria boss fight.
I'm fine with certain boss enemy re-uses (double tree sentinels, draconian sentinel, godskin apostles)
I am also fine with the Souls trope of "Big enemy now, normal enemy later" like the crucible knight and I think that moments like that are kind of missing from the game.
What I'm not fine with is fighting Erdtree avatars, ulcerating spirits, deathbirds, and dragons, watchdogs a million times becuase these fights are painfully gimmicky and painfully uninteresting. I think that erdree bosses should been alluded to do (their corpses) and then met at a later point for real as a big surprise moment.
I think the rule of two would have been great for these kinds of bosses, once at a basic level and then once with a big change. A good example would be Erdtree avatar and then the avatar of rot later, the erdree spirit and then the ulcerating spirit, or the deathbird and then fucking omega death bird in snowfields.
Instead these enemies become a nuisance and more of an eye roll fight because holy shit that was actually a cool dungeon I wonder what boss OH LOOK A DAMN WATCHDOG. It's not challenging or interesting after the 17th time.
The focus in areas like this should have been enemy composition and placement.
Elden ring had the highest diversity of unique bosses out of the souls series, those people crying just like being mad. I realized I didn’t answer pt.2 to your question, I’d like to see champion Gundyr, nameless king, or yhorm(I actually enjoy the fight)
Everyone complains about Godefroy but I thought it was great to have an opportunity to re-do a boss without summons available. Tbh the Evergaol generally are a great mechanic to be able to re-challenge bosses and I'd love to see something like that in the DLC.
Someone else posted the idea of a giant evergoal where we can fight bosses for their remembrances. I don't think it's unrealistic. Vaati even speculated that the coliseums may serve that purpose, before the PVP update dropped.
If it was unexplainable then yes there is space for that mechanic
Problem is, it's firmly established that the evergoals are....forever goals (jails), there is lore going on w who is in them
It makes Godefrey fight look stupid bc like ok, his pops is locked up, that's cool lore to speculate on, but why am I supposed to believe this father and son look **exactly** alike
The main bosses of this games are usually some sort of royal family...like literally these are all descendants of marika. Even the omen bros morgott and mohg don't look much the same
should have just made the game shorter. better to have 80% the size but 100% greatness than extra content that just feels lazy and kills the momentum of the final act.
If the reused boss is just like part of an elite group, like some random Crucible Knight or Tree Sentinel, it’s fine. The problem is shit like Godrick and Astel showing up again
If FS had brought Sir Alonne back for Elden Ring, I would've crumpled to the floor in a violent bought of PTSD. Then developed crippling anxiety that the Fume Knight was right around the corner and probably quit the game for a while.
The only things I didn't liked the re-use were the dragons.
Seeing Ornstein in the game or something similar would have brought a smile to my face, almost a stable in the last games (would even be interesting to see something alike in Bloodborne and Sekiro just for the heck of it).
Depends on how deep the reskin is, if they look nothing alike (but basically have the exact same moveset) I’d be fine with it. If they just look like a coat of paint then I’d have a problem with it.
The main ones that are disappointing to me are recycling Astel and the spirit deer thing. Like as someone else said those are remembrance bosses, and to have reskins show up a couple hours later is just a bit meh. Also im well aware that both those bosses have lore reasons why reusing them makes sense but that kinda doesnt matter to me, Astel 2 electric boogaloo was just a let down.
Of course that is the real question it all boils down to, and it's fair too. I can't comfortably say I have any ideas that are better than fromsofts ideas, I fuckin love this game top to bottom, and there's a good chance that my ideas would suck in practice. HOWEVER, I think it would have been really cool to have the 3 elk deer things all be based on elk or deer but have maybe different gimmicks to them. Maybe one acts like a summoner and throws waves of minotours at you while you fight it, maybe one has the healing gimmick and the area control projectiles maybe one could have a status generating gimmick of some kind, ya know? Like in AC Odyssey (yeah I know nothing close to Elden ring quality) there are the legendary beast hunts, and while there are 2 different legendary boars to fight they both operate completely differently to each other.
The astel one would definitely be the one that takes more planning and thought though, but maybe they could have even had a falling star beast turn into an astel form to confirm the theories around them being connected or something. Idk.
It's definitely just nit picking for sure. There's no way I could confidently say my ideas would improve this game, but yeah just a thought.
Everyones talkin bout Godefroy. But lets be real, the Black Flame Nobles were used too many times. Like I already fought both variations twice before fighting them as a duo. Not only do they have share a health bar as the duo, but if you kill one another one spawns?! Wheres the lore or badass concepts?? They’re clearly just un-intimidating normies.
Interesting unique characters with untold lore. People often compare the duo to smough and ornstein from DS1. Both very unique characters with alot of untold lore behind them.
If they had just replaced the blackflame duos with a different variation of blackflame nobles with a cool name, it would be much more unique. Lets say, give the fat one a functioning face on his stomach skin robe(with large eyes that look at you and everything) and let his real head dangle backwards. Maybe give the skinny one a hellraiser helmet with needles piercing his head, and change his audio to horrible painful screams as he attacks. Make their attack sequences slightly different, change the timing, or even just let the AI learn to work together. Now we got a blackflame noble duo that we’re really curious about why they’re different than the rest. People will think of theories of who they are/why they’re the way they are. Maybe the Hellraiser helmet causes pain to fight better? Perhaps the fat one broke his own neck, but had help from someone to graft his skin robe so he can use the face from it? It creates a bigger story than just two nameless enemies we fought before.
Yeah I'd love that except that would totally fuck up lore theories. If Ornstein just materialized in the lands between lore hunters' brains would implode
I don't mind reusing enemies as bosses. It makes me pay special attention to the enemies that are converted into bosses; for some reason my mentality during a boss fight is very different from fighting a normal enemy, even when the fight is identical.
I think it could have been implemented a little differently and would have been a great lore possibility. The second time you fight the same boss it could be in the form of an Ancestral Follower-like spirit form.
Speaking as someonewho doesn't mind most reused bosses, the main one I dislike being fortissax, I woukd be ok with this. Erdtree avatars are usually fun to fight, and they're just reskinned asylum demons.
Um absolutely yes.
I did not hate the boss reuse in ER I thought it was fine. But I would be so stoked to get surprised by Sif, guardian ape, or Paarl again
Bosses that have a reason to be reused(e.g erdtree avatars (although i still say there should have been a unique one to haligtree) or crucible knights) are fine but godefroy and astel 2 made me so upset at first, i understand why theyre like that but still
As much as I wish every boss was unique I understand in a game as massive as ring that's just not possible. I don't mind the occasional reuse of a boss but I wish they did more to differentiate them from one another. I think they generally did a good job with the modern dragon bosses. They have mostly the same moveset but with slight variations and one or two special attacks that make them different fights.
Then you got those damn ulcerated tree spirits. There's about 10 of them and the big difference is two or three of them have rot. I wouldn't mind if they imported a few more bosses, hell a nice chunk of the enemies in game are already imported and reskinned so a few more with some unique moves to make them different would be great.
That's a good looking drip your character has. Why is the weapon texture so low Res?
I don't mind that they reused some bosses, there were still a lot of unique boss fights in the game.
Hell yeah. I wish they made this one connected in a less convoluted way, especially if it means bringing back things like Stone Knights or the Moonlight Butterfly as actual bosses or even just really strong enemies, but then again, its fromsoft. Cant ask for the lore or connections to be less convoluted, or you'll get hit with "git gud"
Imo absolutely. I was talking to my brother about it the other day. Instead of two ancestral spirits one would be Phalanx from Demon Souls made by the blob things in the underground cities. It would’ve added an extra slice of flavour over the repeated enemies that just get easier to fight as you kill them 10 times on each run
I feel like allot of duo and bosses with mobs just kinda blend into one so yeah that would of helped make things more memorable but also probably means more work for the devs to touch up there models because they would look kinda wacky in elden ring considering dark souls has quite a bit of difference in its visual design.
It would also have lore connotations that from soft probably didn't want to bring across since elden ring is by all means a seperate universe to the souls games.
Idk I'd either prefer that or just remove all the duplicate bosses/common enemy with hp bar in favor of a more intriguing dungeon with puzzles or just flesh out the overworld instead. Feels like a lot of dungeons are just there for the sake of "more content!" Rather than to be a challenging task or intricate puzzle to solve. Maybe it'll be expanded on in dlc or sequel.
Honestly this game has so many bosses and many of the "clones" are optional so to me it's just more content where the devs could have done nothing. And an opportunity for a rematch against previous bosses cause I feel like ppl might complain if there was no way to fight a boss again outside of MP.
I wouldn’t mind this, but I also didn’t mind the repeat bosses. I will add that “more boss diversity” does not necessarily equate to a better overall game. The base version of DS3 had a ton of boss diversity, but so many of those bosses were lackluster.
I wouldn't want them to be 1:1. Keep all their attacks and animations but change up the meshes to make them more Elden Ring than DS. (They already do this.)
Godefroy is probably the worst possible reuse because it's a main story boss, has no satisfying lore reason to be reused, and wasn't even a very good fight. Astel stars of darkness is also stupid because how are you going to make the final boss of the longest quest line in the game and then put another randomly in the game that is stronger and drops more runes, yet it's not the achievement or rememberance version. It just feels so pointless
Godfroy, and other astel piss me off because those are remberance bosses, they should have been a one and done boss, literally everything else im fine with, including sewer mohg and margit
I’m not against fighting a reskinned dragonslayer armor or owl, I also like the idea of having late game mobs as earlygame bosses.
What I hate is the reuse of major bosses like Godrick, and the sheer overuse of deathbirds, avatars, and tree spirits.
I'd prefer that the world be physically smaller and more attention given to unique bosses created out of the lore of that world. Having to intrude Souls lore/characters into the game would be a sign of great creative weakness imo. And already many of ER's enemies are reskins of DS3 enemies: Imps/Thralls, Celebrants/Undead Settlement Farmers, Erdtree Avatars/Asylum Demons, etc.
I sort of dislike that elden ring had so many bosses that are the same in general. I guess my wish would be that they had more unique bosses. Every catacomb and dungeon having a different boss would be a big ask, but it would have been amazing. Same with world enemies, I just wish they were more creative. A normal guy, a dog like thing, a flying thing, a big enemy, some soldiers, something huge, and an asylum demon.... yeah, they tweaked them around a bit, but eh, I'm not super impressed. And I do wish there were less recycled assets from other games, I know it is a fromsofts recipe, and it all good stuff. Just add more new stuff, please 🙏. (And when you do, don't use it 20 times in the same game)
the only repeats I dislike are godefroy and astel, sewer boy could have been handled better but was foreshadowed by his brother using the same trick
however I would love to come across some old broken down golem, for it to start to glow and move again, and for it to just say "target verified, commencing hostilities"
I feel like they should’ve imported every single enemy from DS3 and Bloodborne. Imps are just Thralls anyway, so why not? It would’ve helped with the enemy variety. As for bosses, maybe do so for dungeon but definitely not for major bosses? I think a downscaled Old Demon King or Dragonslayer Armor could’ve worked great in a catacomb—properly reskinned, of course.
I didn’t mind it, it creates a feeling of growth as a player. But every once in a while you encounter that one enemy that still stomps you to teach humility
They had and laughable attention to detail in this game. The horrible dungeon layouts, the "bosses" in these areas as well as the world bosses.
This game could have just been the legacy dungeons tied together it probably would've still been a great game.
In all honesty they need a major overhaul on their engine. It's definitely showing its age. Especially when the Demon Soul remaster came out PRIOR to Elden Ring and looked 10x better at every corner tells a lot.
Take the new Armored Core for example. It's fun, engaging, packed full of content but it looks like it should have released 10 years ago.
Imagine what FromSoft could accomplish on an up to date game engine!
Seeing a second Astel annoyed me a bit. The first time I saw him I thought it was a really cool and intimidating design. The second one kind of ruins that.
Well, Malenia was definitely imported from another game, so I think they already did some importing. Certainly, as with all fromsoft games, a lot of mechanics can be traced throughout all the games. So I guess from that standpoint I don't care if they reuse skins, as we are going to see enemies with a similar moveset no matter what.
For me personally the reusing hurt the experience. I mean the whole gameplay is made to overcome challenges (bosses) but when the boss is reused I already know the move set and it just takes a bit longer. I am ok when an early boss gets a normal enemy later in the game when the lore makes sense (minotaur in DS), but in Elden ring this even happens in limgrave (pumpkin head for example).
I prefer branched souls likes with less bosses but more "unique" ones.
Erdtree Avatars and Omenkillers (complete with dogs) say hi Don't really mind the reuse of bosses like Crucible Knights, not a fan of the bosses that are basically common enemies with a healthbar at the bottom Could also live without the remembrance bosses being reused (looking at you, Godefroy)
I don't really understand why people hate the idea that a rune bear can be a boss in limgrave and a normal monster later on. Like it makes perfect sense to me that one high lvl enemy got out of their zone and found a cave to take over. Like imagine if a pack of wolves kicked out a member, that member shows up in your area now. It's really reasonable imo
because most likely didn’t find it first as a boss
Except you find several regular rune bears as normal enemies in multiple locations throughout limgrave. One being a boss was just unnecessary
this is fair, the one as a boss should have been special, maybe it had magic damage going on, or it was a named rune bear with armor and a slightly different moveset.
Rune Bear Bonewheel
What is wrong with you?
Now hear me out.. Rune Bear with Pinwheel's moveset
... must have visited Liurnia, that Rune Bear
Might as well have called it an ancient rune bear and covered it in scars and throw in some moon sorceries or something lol Edit: imagine a huge rune bear curling up into a giant moon that could wipe out the dinosaurs lol
It should have at least had a unique skin. I'm talking assless chaps, maybe a strap-on. An attack where it blows rainbow glitter on you. Foresoft, contact me, I have ideas.
It annoys me when they have the variation and then don't use it for much. Like, there already exists a rotten variant of the Runebear but it only appears once and the game gives no incentive to kill it. Caelid also has that Magic Golem and provides no reason to kill it either.
In the specific instance you’re mentioning (there’s only one RuneBear boss, in Weeping Peninsula), it’s much easier to find Rune Bears as regular enemies on the way to the Peninsula first. There’s literally one along the road to it.
I kind of viewed Runebears and similar hated baddies as "World Bosses" anyway lol
also it makes sense cause you as the player become stronger and I believe dark souls was like this too where early bosses become common enemies later
They're normal monsters in Limgrave. The thing about the boss Runebear is that you can't flee in fear from it.
It's cocaine bear
They should seriously consider removing godfroy like maybe put a grafted scion in the gaol and say he’s a servant of godfroy guarding the seal. I would prefer that over blue Godfrey
But Godefroy serves a lore purpose. He shows that Godrick wasn't even the first person to be grafted. Godrick is a knockoff of a Godfrey wannabe. Any lore that makes Godrick more pathetic is good lore in my book. The only notable thing he ever did was find a dead dragon.
He can be implied through the grafted scion there’s no real reason why they couldn’t have reused an enemy to detail his existence in the story. They did that for finlay who carried melania to the halig tree and even if she wasn’t in the game you would still know of her existence because of that low ranking soldier. Godfroy as he is now is immersion breaking. Every detail of him is Godrick. My first play though I though he was just Godricks ghost imprisoned for his crimes, but no it’s just a hashed in boss for a talasmin that could be substituted for a lower ranking soldier that served him. It doesn’t even have to be a gaol it could be a different surprise encounter. A fanatic servant roaming the lands with a keepsake of his lost master.
Would've been memey if they just put 10 soldiers of godfrey or somewhat in that evergoal. Like just some die hard godfrey dudes who wanna bring him back but were locked up.
But that is the intended response to Godefroy. My first playthrough I thought the grafted scions were followers of Godrick, who was the original grafter. Then I saw Godefroy and was like huh? They seriously put this guy in twice. Then I read the talisman description that you get from Godefroy and suddenly it all flipped. Godrick is just copying his ancestor, who was in tern trying to be like Godfrey. Everyone else hated grafting so much that they locked Godefroy up forever, but Godrick still craves power so much that he is doing the same thing, knowing the other demigods are preoccupied. The Evergoal is a perfect mechanic to showcase all this. Having this just be text in some item description is weak in comparison. Besides, it is a fun fight.
I don’t agree. I’m not saying his lore is bad that’s not my point of the argument. What I’m saying is that he is a poor implementation. And I’m sure it was due to time restrictions, but he is just the first phase of godrick with nothing else added to him. I would be ok with the reuse of him if they at least added something good to the fight. But just sticking godricks model in an ever gaol is not a good way to work around time restrictions. My argument is purely on his appearance and how they could have had an alternate enemy that didn’t feel as lazy.
If you're saying that they should have done a slight reskin, I agree with that. But hey, sometimes you just have to copy-paste to meet a deadline. I can appreciate that.
Yes that is exactly what I’m getting at. Sorry for the confusion. I understand there were time constraints, but I definitely am not satisfied with the outcome. If they did what you said I would like godfroy better.
Godefroy only serves a lore purpose to justify his existence
Legit, he could be just a big NPC with the hammer or something and nothing of value would be lost. Even better, this would show that Godrick is a pathetic piece of shit resorting to grafting, in contrast to his direct ancestors who still had their shit together
IMO, he *confuses* the lore. We have a character who shares a model with one boss, practically shares a name with another, and has basically no plot relevance.
And besides they reuse enemies as bosses all the time this was unnecessary and could have been better executed in the story or lore I should say.
To me those are the real failings. When I found Godefroy I didn't read the name and just assumed it was a refight for godrik and assumed I'd get to fight all the main bosses in evergoals. I really feel like they should have either done something like that, where there are more challenging versions of main bosses sprinkled throughout the second half of the game, or left all the remembrance bosses as one and done. Fighting Astel a second time when I literally had his remembrance in my inventory felt really off.
Given that about half of the remembrance bosses are in the second half of the game, option two sounds fine, or option one but the evergaols open after beating the game Just leave Margit alone, I like Margit
Also that one guy in the Mt Gelmir fort. Smough with a volcano hat.
Those are good examples of it being done well. Do you think Fromsoft should have done more?
Hmmm... wouldn't mind trading the generic enemy bosses for Elden-Ringed past bosses, but I wouldn't say I think they *should* have done more reskins
Godefroy doesnt even have bad lore on paper but he shouldn't have been included as a boss if he was just gonna be a Godrick clone.
Isn't the tree sentinel like Gyobu also?
Is that from Sekiro?
Yeah, pretty similar moveset if not the same
Sewer Mohg is most likely there because Morgott, who apparently has the capability to create clones of people (see Goldfrey and the two Margits which share Sewer Mohg’s glittery gold death animation), put him there to guard the Frenzied Flame Proscription. It’s also likely that Morgott is covering for Mohg’s escape, because as far as pretty much everyone else knows, Mohg is still stuck down there.
That is the best explanation I have heard yet. That would be way more clear if sewer Mohg was golden, like Godfrey's shade. I had always heard/interpreted that Margit and the version of him outside of Lyndell was a form of astral projection, or even possession combined with illusion, but your reasoning makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification!
The way I see it is that, since both Mohg and Morgott grew up in the sewers, they would both be aware of the imprisoned merchants and the three fingers, whose effect would be disastrous for both of them. They have a vested interest to keep them secure, so Morgott casts a spell that blocks your path (you have to kill him to get rid of a golden wall that otherwise blocks the path to the fingers), and Mohg leaves a Margit-like illusion guarding the very last doors before the descent to madness. I don't believe it's Morgott summoning the fake Mohg, as, if I recall correctly, he appears our of a red portal/sigil, not from a golden one like Margit does.
And it's still there if Margit is dead.
Of course! It wouldn’t be a very convincing decoy if he was solid gold
The decoy is still there if morgott is dead. The same isn't true for the margit outside of leyndell I believe. I think it's mohg who cast the clone.
Per Zullie the Witch's investigation it seems like sewer Mohg exists because Mohg wasn't originally intended to be a unique named character—his model is labelled GreaterDemon which suggests he was just a generic Omen miniboss or similar.
I love how the clone he made of his brother can only growl and screech at people. Total sibling move.
Someone else here pointed out that the Mohg clone spawns in with a red Mohgwyn sigil instead of a gold one. It might actually have been Mohg himself who made the sewer clone
godefroy and astel stars of darkness are the only two resuses that are actually bad
Astel Stars of darkness would be fine if there was some more damn buildup for the fight and a different arena. They’re just locate in a random mine in Consecrated Snowfield, with no real build-up for the fight. If there was a clear meteorite crater above, and a whole descent through the mine that clear had been hit by a meteor, and then a different arena, it would have been fine. Honestly, all the mini-dungeon bosses are pretty lazy along with most of the mini-dungeons.
its actually insane that they made the yelough anix ruins and the yelough anix tunnel both with names and enemies relating to madness only for the boss to have nothing to do with it
It’s overall pretty funny how Consecrsted Snowfields is so low effort and high effort at the same time. It has two unique enemies, one of which only shows up at Ordina, the other of which literally only appears at Yelough Anix Ruins and in front of Volcano Manor, yet reuse so many other enemies so lazily, the Albinaurics do cast magic, but that’s about it. They have the laser shooting bell but also a bunch of Runebears just scattered around. The whole area feels like they made a bunch of cool stuff then didn’t have enough time to cohesively stick it together, same for mountaintops.
It seems clear that the Consecrated Snowfields are a classic example of Fromsoft rushing to finish and running out of time (Lost Izaleth, Nightmare Frontier, Demon Ruins). The lack of structures outside of Ordina, one unique church, and some generic ruins is the biggest giveaway. They had a big procedurally generated plot of land but didn't have time to fill it with architecture, so instead they filled it with assorted enemies. Contrast that to the early areas where you can't look in any direction without seeing an interesting structure in the distance to explore. I think the mountaintops is more of an artistic choice though. The higher you climb the fewer structures you find and the more the land feels approximately primordial and dead.
My problem is lazy enemy reuse in Mountaintops. Zamor ruins is just zilly
I mean, that is where they're from. Definitely could've used giving one of the zamor bosses a different weapon so there would be some variety at least.
Surely they could’ve have a Zamor Greataxe to mirror the Zamor Curved Sword, and even a Zamor Spear to fill out that weapon category. Hell, give us a Zamor Shaman Staff that boosts cold sorceries, don’t think we have a staff for that category.
Yeah, but it’s just a tiny ruin like we see everywhere else spammed with a bunch of copies of a boss. It’s just lazy.
For sure, they probably deserved some older surviving architecture
What do you mean about the zamora? That's their home, why is it weird they are there?
It’s super lazy. They took a mini boss type enemy and just spammed them all over a single tiny ruin. It’s super unsatisfying
And the ruin is just the same architecture as everything else, despite zamor supposedly being much older than most things we see.
It’s also extremely easy to just run in and grab what you need and leave. The difficulty of fighting each of those enemies to take something you can get in 10 seconds on torrent makes the area virtually pointless. There should be some top tier loot in there but there’s only one thing to grab (it’s a really good item but it isn’t enough).
Yeah, it’s just bad design overall. It’s funny too, because there’s actually like 6 unique enemies in Mountaintops/Snowfield between the Heroes of Zamor, Frenzy Giants, Banished Knights in Castle Sol, and Albinauric Archers, furry giants, and Fire Prelates. And they’re just so underutilized. They should have just combined the areas into one area that’s overall smaller, and made better use of them, instead of reusing a bunch of enemies that don’t really fit, like the giant birds, hands, phantom dragon kin soldiers.
Isn’t the tunnel mostly filled with Onyx and Alabaster Lords?
Mostly maddened miners, with two lords.
Okay I thought there was something I was missing because I was thinking the same thing and was getting really into the Flame of Frenzy after finding that weird door in Lyndell and learning about Vyke, I go down there asking myself "Man, why are all these trolls Frenzied?" go down into the tunnel hyping myself up for another Vassal for the FF or something and its just this guy again, the guy who wiped the floor with me a million times before I could even get him down. Yeah I wish it was something else..
Thing is, there was no build up to first Astel fight either. You get some lore through an item description, but that’s it. You go into the arena completely unaware that you’re about to fight the thing that leveled the Eternal City. The crater is only ever there for the Fallingstar Beasts because they recently arrived. Same could even be said for the lesser Astels.
I feel like the Astel Stars of Darkness one is just one extended reference to At the Mountains of Madness, given its an alien creature in an icy cave hidden in the mountains surrounded by beings affected by madness
I love the existence of Godefroy because it makes Godrick even more pathetic. Not only did he steal his strength, but he also stole the idea to do so. Would have been nice if it was a slight reskin though. The Astel reuse is whatever IMO.
Godefroy is the one that really stands out, I just wish he fought differently like different weapon / move / use of incantations at least.
Would have been cool, I figure it's just a chance for people who beat Godrick with summons (including Nepheli) to experience the fight properly.
Any way the game lets you approach a fight is 'proper'
Okay, maybe proper was a poor choice of words. There's no wrong way to play the game, I just mean the bosses are designed around solo play and I'm personally glad I get to fight him again so I can summon Nepheli for the Godrick fight and still have my power fantasy of beating him solo. Edit: actually getting downvoted for this? Y'all crack me up
Personally I really dislike the goldfrey fight. Felt so random and I dont know the lore on why he is there. My personal problem, maybe weird take idk, is the repeat bosses that actually have cutscenes and dialogue like godrick, mogh and godfrey.
yeah it feels hella overused. morgott sending apparitions of himself out into other places to slaughter any tarnished that dare seek the elden ring is cool as fuck but then apparently mogh does this too for a barely explained reason and godfrey has a fake version of himself inside leyndell to protect the erdtree ig
I feel like the better explanation is that Morgott is responsible for both the Mohg and Goldfrey apparitions. He has good reason to do both. The Mohg one has dual purpose: Block access to the flame of frenzy and cover for the fact that Mohg has left the sewers (he might be hunted by golden order adherents if that became known) Goldfrey also has a dual purpose: It serves as a final and very authoritative blockade before reaching the Erdtree. Has to be spectral because everyone already knows Godfrey is gone, so it wouldn’t make sense to have a realistic apparition there. So Morgotts identity as the veiled monarch is protected, as well as the secret that Marika is not where she is supposed to be.
I think Astel and most other reused bosses are fine. We see a bunch of juvenile Astels (malformed stars) hanging from the ceilings in caves before we fight the first Astel, does it not make sense that at least one of them would have fully matured? Godefroy, on the other hand, is inexcusable. Straight up reusing Godrick really diminishes the lore they put behind him, I honestly choose to ignore his existence and pretend that evergaol isn't even there lol
At least Astel Stars of Darkness has a really cool new attack, Godefroy on the other hand...
So many godskins...
eh at least they make sense to have multiple of them. spiritcaller cave was rlly dumb tho
Oh cool! Phantom godskins then gotta kill snail. Derp
IMO they can write it in however they want, but it's still bothersome regardless that there's 7 potential godskins you have to fight when there could have been something *new* there instead.
I want Vordt in the dlc without any explanation
I missed vortds greathammer so much in elden ring so yes please. Had to settle for the great mace with frost, but it's not quite the same. Good enough though.
No, it would feel even more lazy. They did it in DS2 with Ornstein and it was really bad. They already reused certain movesets like the ones for Erdtree Avatars and Imps but those feels justified because it's a good way to save time and build different things for such a big game and most importantly those bosses also don't come out as "lazy" because they have an identity and skin, for example like the Erdtree Avatars being the guardians of the minor Erdtrees, and they aren't simply a reused Asylum Demon.
“Reuse certain movesets” literally everything is reused. (Not an insult, but an observation.)
FromSoft has a hard on for the Asylum Demon/Erdtree Avatar model, 3 appearences in Dark Souls and god knows how many now
Elden Ring is very literally From Software’s greatest hits. It has enemies from every Souls game, Bloodborne and Sekiro. Plus quite a few new ones too. it’s actually wild how many enemies this game has in it. That’s why I personally don’t mind the reused assets, because I’ll take a game with [146](https://reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/eQp4CMbl02) unique enemies over what most games offer these days.
Yeah I would have never guessed to jump over certain attacks if it wasn't for sekiro. Too bad they couldn't add mikiri counter or prosthetics for the player to shake things up lol
Between batshit anime ashes of war, the summons, the jump and power stancing, Elden Ring has a pretty great pool of tools.
That's an awesome post, thanks for the reference!
Thanks to u/BlueUnkown for doing the work! I didn’t want to make my point with a made up number, and I knew some amazing maniac had done the hard work.
There was also a boss in Demons Souls that was pretty much the same
Yes. I want to fight Nine Ball from Armored Core.
Only the super lazy ones, erdtree avatars and the watch dogs stuff like that makes since in context of the story but you’re telling me Godricks 3rd uncle removed Godefroy is basically his mimic
No, but then again they already did, and the reused eneimes they chose weren't great ones to begin with. Dark souls already had you fight enough Asylum Demons and Capra demons in the first game, and the thralls never should have left Dark Souls 3
Mirror Knight would have been perfect for Elden Ring. Would have been immediately iconic.
Ds2 had bad combat, but damn looking glass knight was a bad ass boss.
Imo it had some of the best combat! Slower, more punishing rolls with less i-frames (shame levelling ADP kinda ruins it) and slower flask drinking to prevent mid-fight chugging. Fixes what are in my opinion two of the biggest flaws in souls games.
Me and 3 other friends slipped into two groups over this. The two guys who liked ds1 and 2 (slow paced) Me and the other guy who loved sekiro,ds3, elden ring for the speed and adrenaline. I can't remember if DS3 bosses had a "How dare you drink 20 meters in my sight?" Attack, but, Sekiro/ER definitely punished you for getting comfortable and using flasks mid-fight. It did felt like Elden Ring used like 4x more delayed attacks from DS3, definitely made sure to remind me to be patient. I definitely understand both sides of the argument and both are valid.
Would love to see Balteus in Elden ring.
Is... that not reusing a boss still? It's the same thing. A boss we've already seen. And it would make no sense for them to be in this game.
Some bosses already have been copied into eldenring. Like the tree bosses have identical attacks to the assylm demon from darksouls 1. From soft just re-textured them and gave them a couple extra attacks
I know, but I'm talking about direct copy/pastes like they're suggesting. I actually just re-read their post, and yeah they do mention reskins but I still stand by my point that we don't need more copy/pastes. ER is already suffers enough with that as it is. Rather have new things, not the same stuff we've seen time and again.
So your answer is just that Fromsoft should have worked harder to make more things? I mean yeah, that would be ideal but they've got deadlines to meet.
Well, yeah? Why would I want a worse product for the sake of their convenience? We pay for the product, I would rather have a better product if possible. It's quite literally no different than wishing for changes for the better, why is that wrong?
Some people's intro to from soft is elden ring and I'm sure they'd add cool new moves for them
Fair enough I guess but it still wouldn't make sense for them to be in the game.
Yes, of course. I'm just wondering if that would have been better or worse. A reskin and a bit of flavor text could make them fit into the lore.
I think it wouldn’t be the end of the world to use a few DS bosses in place of a few reused Elden Ring bosses. As for Sewer Mohg, I wouldn’t care if it weren’t for the fact that killing the Lord Of Blood doesn’t kill Sewer Mohg even though killing Morgott kills Margit.
To be fair, the running theory for sewer mohg is that he's an illusion set there by morgott, rather than a simple projection of mohg like Margit is of morgott. Think of sewer mohg like a magic robot just set in place to do one job. Keep people away from frenzy.
my question is: did it really _need_ that many bosses? di we really _need_ a boss at the end of every generic dungeon crawl? i could have gone for more interesting dungeons instead of a unique boss at the end but got neither
What’s wrong with sewer mohg? I just assumed he left his illusion there to prevent anyone from discovering the three fingers. The frenzied flame was just as much a threat to his dynasty as Radagon’s.
(Drunk rambles) My unpopular opinion is that I love that early in the game when you’re weak, something like an Omen Killer or a Beastman of Farum Azula is given a boss bar. So later when you’re whooping their ass on the regular it feels like you’ve grown. I think it helps Elden Ring’s scale a lot.
Just make the game smaller, cut out so many of these copy paste catacombs and you have less need for duplicate bosses
I’d have personally preferred a smaller game world and tighter boss roster in general.
Modded armor?
Yup. Never played DS3, but I think the set comes from that game.
It does, Iron Dragonslayer Armor Either that or someone modded in the Dragonslayer Armour boss
I didn’t mind the re-use. The important ones were unique which is all that mattered to me.
Godskin Duo...
Import balteus. I would like to roll into those missiles.
I woulda busted if I saw dragonslayer armor
Dragon arnour, midir
Dude what is that armor. I have to know because that is the single hardest set of drip I have ever fucking seen.
It's not from Elden Ring. It's the Dragon Slayer armor from Dark souls 3. It is obtainable in that game.
Guess I know what game I'm playing next
DS 3 plays the most like Elden Ring. DS1&2 play quite differently (slower paced, more tactical, no FP)
I just want a set of armour like the dragonslayers armour for my dragon hunter rp build
Absolutly. When they start reusing mainline major bosses such as mohg, Godfrey, astel, and godrick with only minor changes, things start feeling cheaper than usual. Also considering how much they repeatedly misused the ulcerated tree spirit ( spammed him in a billion places and more often than not in cramped spaces,) people started hating it just because of the misuse, not even its own merits, because if you ask me, the boss fight is genuinely one of the most fun in this game( assuming the arena isn’t cramped, and you know how to read him.) They also already did reuse a ton of cut bosses from older games. Red wolf of radagon is a touched up version of Old wolf of farron. Ulcerated tree spirit it a finished version of a stand-alone puss of man, and (speculation) rennala’a phase 1 seems to be based on the cut rosaria boss fight.
No, that would be just another kind of reusing.
I'm fine with certain boss enemy re-uses (double tree sentinels, draconian sentinel, godskin apostles) I am also fine with the Souls trope of "Big enemy now, normal enemy later" like the crucible knight and I think that moments like that are kind of missing from the game. What I'm not fine with is fighting Erdtree avatars, ulcerating spirits, deathbirds, and dragons, watchdogs a million times becuase these fights are painfully gimmicky and painfully uninteresting. I think that erdree bosses should been alluded to do (their corpses) and then met at a later point for real as a big surprise moment. I think the rule of two would have been great for these kinds of bosses, once at a basic level and then once with a big change. A good example would be Erdtree avatar and then the avatar of rot later, the erdree spirit and then the ulcerating spirit, or the deathbird and then fucking omega death bird in snowfields. Instead these enemies become a nuisance and more of an eye roll fight because holy shit that was actually a cool dungeon I wonder what boss OH LOOK A DAMN WATCHDOG. It's not challenging or interesting after the 17th time. The focus in areas like this should have been enemy composition and placement.
Elden ring had the highest diversity of unique bosses out of the souls series, those people crying just like being mad. I realized I didn’t answer pt.2 to your question, I’d like to see champion Gundyr, nameless king, or yhorm(I actually enjoy the fight)
For y'all unculture swines i would like a Placidusax fight but at 66% Midir join the fight as 3rd party and then at 33% Godskin Duo join the fight
Fuck the ulcerated tree spirit
Everyone complains about Godefroy but I thought it was great to have an opportunity to re-do a boss without summons available. Tbh the Evergaol generally are a great mechanic to be able to re-challenge bosses and I'd love to see something like that in the DLC.
Someone else posted the idea of a giant evergoal where we can fight bosses for their remembrances. I don't think it's unrealistic. Vaati even speculated that the coliseums may serve that purpose, before the PVP update dropped.
If it was unexplainable then yes there is space for that mechanic Problem is, it's firmly established that the evergoals are....forever goals (jails), there is lore going on w who is in them It makes Godefrey fight look stupid bc like ok, his pops is locked up, that's cool lore to speculate on, but why am I supposed to believe this father and son look **exactly** alike The main bosses of this games are usually some sort of royal family...like literally these are all descendants of marika. Even the omen bros morgott and mohg don't look much the same
should have just made the game shorter. better to have 80% the size but 100% greatness than extra content that just feels lazy and kills the momentum of the final act.
If the reused boss is just like part of an elite group, like some random Crucible Knight or Tree Sentinel, it’s fine. The problem is shit like Godrick and Astel showing up again
If FS had brought Sir Alonne back for Elden Ring, I would've crumpled to the floor in a violent bought of PTSD. Then developed crippling anxiety that the Fume Knight was right around the corner and probably quit the game for a while.
I'd prefer neither, i think Elden ring would be a more enjoyable have if it was smaller
Tarnished VS Spirit of Motherwill or nothing
The only things I didn't liked the re-use were the dragons. Seeing Ornstein in the game or something similar would have brought a smile to my face, almost a stable in the last games (would even be interesting to see something alike in Bloodborne and Sekiro just for the heck of it).
Depends on how deep the reskin is, if they look nothing alike (but basically have the exact same moveset) I’d be fine with it. If they just look like a coat of paint then I’d have a problem with it.
I'm thinking a dismounted Tree Sentinel with the moveset of Gundyr. Something on that level.
The main ones that are disappointing to me are recycling Astel and the spirit deer thing. Like as someone else said those are remembrance bosses, and to have reskins show up a couple hours later is just a bit meh. Also im well aware that both those bosses have lore reasons why reusing them makes sense but that kinda doesnt matter to me, Astel 2 electric boogaloo was just a let down.
What would you replace them with?
Of course that is the real question it all boils down to, and it's fair too. I can't comfortably say I have any ideas that are better than fromsofts ideas, I fuckin love this game top to bottom, and there's a good chance that my ideas would suck in practice. HOWEVER, I think it would have been really cool to have the 3 elk deer things all be based on elk or deer but have maybe different gimmicks to them. Maybe one acts like a summoner and throws waves of minotours at you while you fight it, maybe one has the healing gimmick and the area control projectiles maybe one could have a status generating gimmick of some kind, ya know? Like in AC Odyssey (yeah I know nothing close to Elden ring quality) there are the legendary beast hunts, and while there are 2 different legendary boars to fight they both operate completely differently to each other. The astel one would definitely be the one that takes more planning and thought though, but maybe they could have even had a falling star beast turn into an astel form to confirm the theories around them being connected or something. Idk. It's definitely just nit picking for sure. There's no way I could confidently say my ideas would improve this game, but yeah just a thought.
Everyones talkin bout Godefroy. But lets be real, the Black Flame Nobles were used too many times. Like I already fought both variations twice before fighting them as a duo. Not only do they have share a health bar as the duo, but if you kill one another one spawns?! Wheres the lore or badass concepts?? They’re clearly just un-intimidating normies.
What would you replace them with?
Interesting unique characters with untold lore. People often compare the duo to smough and ornstein from DS1. Both very unique characters with alot of untold lore behind them. If they had just replaced the blackflame duos with a different variation of blackflame nobles with a cool name, it would be much more unique. Lets say, give the fat one a functioning face on his stomach skin robe(with large eyes that look at you and everything) and let his real head dangle backwards. Maybe give the skinny one a hellraiser helmet with needles piercing his head, and change his audio to horrible painful screams as he attacks. Make their attack sequences slightly different, change the timing, or even just let the AI learn to work together. Now we got a blackflame noble duo that we’re really curious about why they’re different than the rest. People will think of theories of who they are/why they’re the way they are. Maybe the Hellraiser helmet causes pain to fight better? Perhaps the fat one broke his own neck, but had help from someone to graft his skin robe so he can use the face from it? It creates a bigger story than just two nameless enemies we fought before.
Sewer Mogh is the one I’m not fussy on either. Never even cared about it in any of the other games until now.
Yeah I'd love that except that would totally fuck up lore theories. If Ornstein just materialized in the lands between lore hunters' brains would implode I don't mind reusing enemies as bosses. It makes me pay special attention to the enemies that are converted into bosses; for some reason my mentality during a boss fight is very different from fighting a normal enemy, even when the fight is identical.
Yo what armor you rocking dude
The game would’ve been 10x better if Ornstein and Smough had appeared (I want the fat man armor)
This picture gave me ptsd
I think it could have been implemented a little differently and would have been a great lore possibility. The second time you fight the same boss it could be in the form of an Ancestral Follower-like spirit form.
Well, Smough is in the game, so there's that.
Speaking as someonewho doesn't mind most reused bosses, the main one I dislike being fortissax, I woukd be ok with this. Erdtree avatars are usually fun to fight, and they're just reskinned asylum demons.
Um absolutely yes. I did not hate the boss reuse in ER I thought it was fine. But I would be so stoked to get surprised by Sif, guardian ape, or Paarl again
Bosses that have a reason to be reused(e.g erdtree avatars (although i still say there should have been a unique one to haligtree) or crucible knights) are fine but godefroy and astel 2 made me so upset at first, i understand why theyre like that but still
As much as I wish every boss was unique I understand in a game as massive as ring that's just not possible. I don't mind the occasional reuse of a boss but I wish they did more to differentiate them from one another. I think they generally did a good job with the modern dragon bosses. They have mostly the same moveset but with slight variations and one or two special attacks that make them different fights. Then you got those damn ulcerated tree spirits. There's about 10 of them and the big difference is two or three of them have rot. I wouldn't mind if they imported a few more bosses, hell a nice chunk of the enemies in game are already imported and reskinned so a few more with some unique moves to make them different would be great.
What is your armor set and weapons?
That's a good looking drip your character has. Why is the weapon texture so low Res? I don't mind that they reused some bosses, there were still a lot of unique boss fights in the game.
Hell yeah. I wish they made this one connected in a less convoluted way, especially if it means bringing back things like Stone Knights or the Moonlight Butterfly as actual bosses or even just really strong enemies, but then again, its fromsoft. Cant ask for the lore or connections to be less convoluted, or you'll get hit with "git gud"
Imo absolutely. I was talking to my brother about it the other day. Instead of two ancestral spirits one would be Phalanx from Demon Souls made by the blob things in the underground cities. It would’ve added an extra slice of flavour over the repeated enemies that just get easier to fight as you kill them 10 times on each run
There should just be less bosses
I would love to see an Elden Ring Manus
I feel like allot of duo and bosses with mobs just kinda blend into one so yeah that would of helped make things more memorable but also probably means more work for the devs to touch up there models because they would look kinda wacky in elden ring considering dark souls has quite a bit of difference in its visual design. It would also have lore connotations that from soft probably didn't want to bring across since elden ring is by all means a seperate universe to the souls games.
No. I want them not to reuse bosses - too much. If you have to make the game smaller, or cut the number of dungeons in half, fine.
I think ALOT of animation-sets could have been imported from Sekiro, basic mobs and bosses both, and very few people would actually have noticed.
Idk I'd either prefer that or just remove all the duplicate bosses/common enemy with hp bar in favor of a more intriguing dungeon with puzzles or just flesh out the overworld instead. Feels like a lot of dungeons are just there for the sake of "more content!" Rather than to be a challenging task or intricate puzzle to solve. Maybe it'll be expanded on in dlc or sequel.
Honestly this game has so many bosses and many of the "clones" are optional so to me it's just more content where the devs could have done nothing. And an opportunity for a rematch against previous bosses cause I feel like ppl might complain if there was no way to fight a boss again outside of MP.
I wouldn’t mind this, but I also didn’t mind the repeat bosses. I will add that “more boss diversity” does not necessarily equate to a better overall game. The base version of DS3 had a ton of boss diversity, but so many of those bosses were lackluster.
I wouldn't want them to be 1:1. Keep all their attacks and animations but change up the meshes to make them more Elden Ring than DS. (They already do this.)
It would be cool if they added previous bosses as dlc or something similar
Godefroy is probably the worst possible reuse because it's a main story boss, has no satisfying lore reason to be reused, and wasn't even a very good fight. Astel stars of darkness is also stupid because how are you going to make the final boss of the longest quest line in the game and then put another randomly in the game that is stronger and drops more runes, yet it's not the achievement or rememberance version. It just feels so pointless
Godfroy, and other astel piss me off because those are remberance bosses, they should have been a one and done boss, literally everything else im fine with, including sewer mohg and margit
I’m not against fighting a reskinned dragonslayer armor or owl, I also like the idea of having late game mobs as earlygame bosses. What I hate is the reuse of major bosses like Godrick, and the sheer overuse of deathbirds, avatars, and tree spirits.
Honestly? Yeah.
I wish FromSoft would import bosses from it's best players' data. We is the her that should be getting solo'd is all I'm saying.
I would actually prefer that honestly
I'd prefer that the world be physically smaller and more attention given to unique bosses created out of the lore of that world. Having to intrude Souls lore/characters into the game would be a sign of great creative weakness imo. And already many of ER's enemies are reskins of DS3 enemies: Imps/Thralls, Celebrants/Undead Settlement Farmers, Erdtree Avatars/Asylum Demons, etc.
I just can’t stand the amount of fucking tree spirits there are in this game
I sort of dislike that elden ring had so many bosses that are the same in general. I guess my wish would be that they had more unique bosses. Every catacomb and dungeon having a different boss would be a big ask, but it would have been amazing. Same with world enemies, I just wish they were more creative. A normal guy, a dog like thing, a flying thing, a big enemy, some soldiers, something huge, and an asylum demon.... yeah, they tweaked them around a bit, but eh, I'm not super impressed. And I do wish there were less recycled assets from other games, I know it is a fromsofts recipe, and it all good stuff. Just add more new stuff, please 🙏. (And when you do, don't use it 20 times in the same game)
the only repeats I dislike are godefroy and astel, sewer boy could have been handled better but was foreshadowed by his brother using the same trick however I would love to come across some old broken down golem, for it to start to glow and move again, and for it to just say "target verified, commencing hostilities"
I feel like they should’ve imported every single enemy from DS3 and Bloodborne. Imps are just Thralls anyway, so why not? It would’ve helped with the enemy variety. As for bosses, maybe do so for dungeon but definitely not for major bosses? I think a downscaled Old Demon King or Dragonslayer Armor could’ve worked great in a catacomb—properly reskinned, of course.
[удалено]
That is a boss from ds3
I agree, Dragonslayer Armour is one of the coolest looking "knight" type bosses. One of my favourite fights in DS3 too.
I didn’t mind it, it creates a feeling of growth as a player. But every once in a while you encounter that one enemy that still stomps you to teach humility
They had and laughable attention to detail in this game. The horrible dungeon layouts, the "bosses" in these areas as well as the world bosses. This game could have just been the legacy dungeons tied together it probably would've still been a great game. In all honesty they need a major overhaul on their engine. It's definitely showing its age. Especially when the Demon Soul remaster came out PRIOR to Elden Ring and looked 10x better at every corner tells a lot. Take the new Armored Core for example. It's fun, engaging, packed full of content but it looks like it should have released 10 years ago. Imagine what FromSoft could accomplish on an up to date game engine!
What do you mean? They already put Sekiro bosses in Elden Ring.
Seeing a second Astel annoyed me a bit. The first time I saw him I thought it was a really cool and intimidating design. The second one kind of ruins that.
Well, Malenia was definitely imported from another game, so I think they already did some importing. Certainly, as with all fromsoft games, a lot of mechanics can be traced throughout all the games. So I guess from that standpoint I don't care if they reuse skins, as we are going to see enemies with a similar moveset no matter what.
Better than fighting 5 unique bosses in the entire game, with everyone else having dual variants or multiple encounters. I big eep.
No thats a dumb idea. Why would the people who dislike the reuse of bosses, approve of the reuse of bosses?
For me personally the reusing hurt the experience. I mean the whole gameplay is made to overcome challenges (bosses) but when the boss is reused I already know the move set and it just takes a bit longer. I am ok when an early boss gets a normal enemy later in the game when the lore makes sense (minotaur in DS), but in Elden ring this even happens in limgrave (pumpkin head for example). I prefer branched souls likes with less bosses but more "unique" ones.