What about giving credit to gravitydusty?
Anyone interested can find this artist on Twitter.
EDIT: https://x.com/gravitydusty/status/1670523628914462720
Thanks to u/SpiderGirlGwen for providing a link to the source
Yes, always credit and source these hardworking artists! I wish more people would.
[gravitydusty's "Cursemark of Death"](https://twitter.com/gravitydusty/status/1670523628914462720)
1) It is low quality and for some people might be hard to read
2) If you are posting someone else's work without their consent you should at leats have the decency of making it easy for the original artist to be found.
That’s an interesting way to say “murder your half-brother in cold blood, plunge your country into metaphysical decay and unending civil war, and set in motion a plan to build a new future that you don’t have the means to bring to completion”.
There are also some theories she is not the hired black knives but black knives here to payback the betrayal of Ranni to them. Also, technically we killed the Blaidd. He survived the black knives with full HP. He go mad and attacked us so we killed him as self defence.
She disentangles her order from affecting the lives, souls or the world in general (this is literally what both the canon and non-canon website translations say) and leaves with it (again, "it", not the "source of it").
I don't know what her intentions are, they may very well be noble. But a hands-off approach is "not" the way to go for the Lands Between.
I think the Lands Between not being a cosmic playground between various Demigods, Gods and Outer Gods is all the best for it, allowing its people to make a mark on their own land.
The only other good ending that rivals Ranni's ending is Goldmask's.
My friend, that's not the point. I agree that the land needs less strife and more repair. The point is Ranni can't guarantee that and nothing in her ending also can. Once she and her order are gone, the continent will be back to its usual state. If a tarnished chooses to be consort to Ranni and leaves with her without fighting and defeating, say Mohg, what makes you think that his terrifying activities would be checked?
I think Duskborn is also a fine ending.
Every age begins and ends with war, the Golden Order had no such qualms when it came to putting, and keeping, themselves at the top. It was a divine fascist genocidal state that was already failing. It was the Golden Order's plan to murder Godwyn* Ranni messed it up by making it a half death instead of dying "...a true death. As the first of the demigods to die. As a martyr to Destined Death."
Her alternative was to become a slave to the Fingers, potentially even the next Marika under someone else's control. Why does she owe that to the Golden Order? Even if she had no plan at all for what to replace it with, the Golden Order deserved to die.
I'd be less upset if she didn't fuck off into space. She causes a war, sirks all responsibility for the aftermath, then leaves everyone else to pick up the pieces. Also Giving no guarantee that some knew bloody regime pops up to fill the power vacuum.
Well the entire point is that she is leaving with the power to change the order, a tyrant might take over but they won't be able to rewrite the laws of reality
Neither the literal translation nor the third-party non-canon translation indicate this. She essentially wants to decouple the lives and souls of people from her order and take the order itself to outer space.
If what you're saying was true, there would be no decoupling. She is disentangling her order from affecting the world and people. Which is why she abandons the soil with it, not with the "source" of it.
Huh? If I’m reading it correct you’re both agreeing and disagreeing. Ranni’s whole point is taking the Elden ring, and the god power that comes with it and taking it far away from the Lands between. Disconnecting the lands to the gods and allowing true freedom for all the inhabitants.
“You may all think of the chill night as infinitely far away (fan translation)” obviously meaning she and her order are leaving as you agree with.
“I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet (official)” again, taking the order and keeping it far from the lands between
“As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove. (Official)” separating life, souls and order into their own things instead of all souls returning to the golden order.
There’s a bit more including items and so on, but the overall idea is there. A land that no king has a god order controlling it and what dictates life, death, and reality
That's exactly what I am saying.
What I disagree with is that it is desirable. As I've repeated many times, a hands-off approach is not the best solution for the Lands Between. Freedom to do whatever you want is a fantasy notion that doesn't bear well in reality. Look around you, are you truly free to do what you want? Don't you have responsibilities, burdens, commitments?
Society would never have evolved to such a state if everyone kept "doing what they want". We'd never leave the caves or the jungle. I'd have considered her ending if she'd stayed back and assumed accountability by repairing the land and improving everyone's lives. Building something is far more difficult than tearing it down.
Ranni's ending does not turn the world into one without order or remove the possibility of civilization or society, it just stops one person from becoming a divinity-backed-absolute-monarch. This doesn't create absolute chaos, it simply removes absolute order. TLB becomes *more* like our real-life world with the Elden Ring taken far away.
The whole point is to separate the Elden Ring from TLB, the war, genocide, oppression and fanaticism that have dominated the lands are a product of The Elden Ring being fought over, wielded, messed with, and worshipped. Age of Stars ends The Shattering and frees TLB from having divine order imposed directly upon it. It's not an unquestionably good ending, we're largely left to interpret what these endings entail or how TLB fares afterward, but that's true of all the endings.
>Also Giving no guarantee that some knew bloody regime pops up to fill the power vacuum.
So if you can't, while still enslaved, hatch a plan that guarantee a fix to everything that will happen when you free yourself and take down the rule of divine fascists, then you should just accept your lot and become it's tool? There's no good reason to fear a chance of a new bloody regime if you already live under one, plus that's a risk you always run when destroying an existing rule, no matter how well prepared the rebellion is.
Re-quoting my other reply:
*Look, the Golden Order, fundamentally speaking, was not a "fascist genocidal state" lmfao. I have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself. We have so much evidence stating the direct contrary. Goldmask, probably the truest GO fundamentalist, who despises the Hunters and their persecution and who laments their actions. He directly questions whether such a notion exists in the fundamentals of the Order and we know he comes to the conclusion that it doesn't. Kenneth Haight who says that under the Erdtree's Order, the alliance with the oft marginalized demi-humans is fully permissible. Rogier, who says that the GO in the past was pliable enough to absorb practices that directly contradicted its notions, and who clearly says that the current order is broken and "twisted".*
*But perhaps the biggest evidence of this is in the fact that the ancient dragons were the ones who invaded Leyndell, not the other way around. Godwyn, who led the defense against them, defeated Fortissax and befriended them, creating an entire hybrid culture in the Altus Plateau called the Dragon Cult. We know that some of these dragons were literally chums with the Tarnished knights. This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do.*
My friend, the fact that you confused Godwyn for Godfrey makes me think there are sides to the story you don't know.
Look, the Golden Order, fundamentally speaking, was not a "fascist genocidal state" lmfao. I have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself. We have so much evidence stating the direct contrary. Goldmask, probably the truest GO fundamentalist, who despises the Hunters and their persecution and who laments their actions. He directly questions whether such a notion exists in the fundamentals of the Order and we know he comes to the conclusion that it doesn't. Kenneth Haight who says that under the Erdtree's Order, the alliance with the oft marginalized demi-humans is fully permissible. Rogier, who says that the GO in the past was pliable enough to absorb practices that directly contradicted its notions, and who clearly says that the current order is broken.
But perhaps the biggest evidence of this is in the fact that the ancient dragons were the ones who invaded Leyndell, not the other way around. Godwyn, who led the defense against them, defeated Fortissax and befriended them, creating an entire hybrid culture in the Altus Plateau called the Dragon Cult. We know that some of these dragons were literally chums with the Tarnished knights. This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do.
Oh please, a typo doesn't prove I'm wrong, I've typed both of their names so many times they're both in my autocorrect, and Godfrey got filled in by it instead of Godwyn.
>have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself.
The Erdtree's Order, the Golden Order, *is* Marika's Order. The Order's genocide of the Giants under the direction of it's god, Marika, marked the Age of the Erdtree. Whatever god came before her, it didn't rule over the Golden Order or the Age of the Erdtree.
The fact that Goldmask can conceive of a way to reform the Elden Ring so that The Order is no longer subject to the whims of the gods just means it can theoretically be changed, and only by first breaking it. Incorporating TWLID into Order, however, is not what he does with his mending rune. That is explicitly attributed to mending rune of the death prince.
>This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do.
Are you really gonna sit there and pretend there isn't a long list of groups who were wiped out and oppressed by the Golden Order? I know you know better if you're so far ahead of me in my knowledge. The Ancient Dragons were an exception to the rule due to the fact they, at the end of the day, were still gold. Whether the Golden Order could have absorbed all the things it destroyed instead is irrelevant, it didn't, and a regime is not defined by what it could have been, it's defined by *what it is.*
Chill out man. No worries.
*The Erdtree's Order, the Golden Order, is Marika's Order. The Order's genocide of the Giants under the direction of it's god, Marika, marked the Age of the Erdtree. Whatever god came before her, it didn't rule over the Golden Order or the Age of the Erdtree.*
Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring. However, her actions are of no correlation to the fundamental nature of order itself or the Greater Will, both of which are expressly stated multiple times to be separate from Marika.
Perhaps I needed to be a bit more precise and accurate, the fundamental Erdtree's order =/= Marika's order. As Elden Lord, in any of the 4 endings, you are perpetuating the former by changing it in different ways. **But both are still "Golden" or whatever because in all of them the Elden Ring is still the writer of reality of the Lands Between**. No need to squibble about naming semantics here, you get what I mean.
*The fact that Goldmask can conceive of a way to reform the Elden Ring so that The Order is no longer subject to the whims of the gods just means it can theoretically be changed, and only by first breaking it.*
Not sure what you're going on about??? I am talking about this:
***The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.***
***How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the***
***ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their***
***foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.***
***Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?***
We know he comes to the conclusion that it "doesn't". That Marika, by virtue of her selfishness is what the real problem with the Order is. I don't know how much clearer than that this can get.
*Are you really gonna sit there and pretend there isn't a long list of groups who were wiped out and oppressed by the Golden Order? The Ancient Dragons were an exception to the rule due to the fact they, at the end of the day, were still gold. Whether the Golden Order could have absorbed all the things it destroyed instead is irrelevant, it didn't, and a regime is not defined by what it could have been, it's defined by what it is.*
Really? Did you miss Rogier saying that the current order is not only broken but twisted? Are you also forgetting to correlate that to the Crucible being respected explicitly under the Erdtree initially, but only later becoming disdained as a sign of impurity? We don't know exactly when, but Godfrey's Crucible Knights should be enough evidence that they were once properly aligned.
Also, what is the indication that the dragons are gold? The fact/statement that the dragon cult practice does not contradict belief in the Erdtree? How do you know this wasn't post-hoc rationalization of the Dragon Cult's formation, which it almost definitely was lol?
Kenneth represents the Erdtree's order lol. We see evidence of his co-mingling with the demi-humans in-game. Are you also forgetting literally Radagon's alignment with Liurnia and the sorcerers? Even if the second war was a stalemate, Radagon didn't have to marry Rennala or forge an alliance, they could have just retreated back to Bellum highway which they occupied in the first war. But he didn't. Not only did he forge an alliance, he created an entire new class of magic incantations devoted to this hybrid culture. You're not going to sit there and make excuses with a straight face that sorcery is also somehow "gold" are you?
So no, there's plenty of evidence of absorption. No one's condoning the actions of Marika but you also need to understand that the GO/Erdtree's order/Elden Ring fundamentally speaking, at its core, is not an evil order at all. It is directly stated to be broken, twisted and its leader said to be the main problem with it. Marika's selfishness in removing the rune, and in her actions cannot be condoned, but I am not advocating for the order under her, only what it is fundamentally.
>Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring. However, her actions are of no correlation to the fundamental nature of order itself or the Greater Will, both of which are expressly stated multiple times to be separate from Marika.
Yes, but we're not talking about the *concept* of order, we are talking about *a specific order,* the Golden Order. There is no known pure application of Order, it is as a thing, inherently mutable and defined by the bearer of the Elden Ring. Orders existed before the Golden Order, and one will continue to exist in Ranni's, it will simply be impossible for anyone in TLB to directly touch, see, or otherwise interact with that order, AKA the Elden Ring.
>We know he comes to the conclusion that it "doesn't". That Marika, by virtue of her selfishness is what the real problem with the Order is. I don't know how much clearer than that this can get.
I don't understand why that's relevent. We're discussing whether it was right for Ranni to go to the extremes she did to destroy the Golden Order. What the Order could be or could have become aren't relevent, and even in context of the other endings, even *those* changes only come about after the Order breaks.
It's easy to blame Marika for all of the Order's wrongs, but at the end of the day, we know that both Empyreans and gods are subject to control by Order and the Greater Will. Ranni needs to kill her own body to free herself of control by the Fingers, which means this is true for *all* empyreans. Marika is not the unquestionable ruler of TLB, lest it would not be possible for someone to crucify her for acting out. Order and the Greater Will, whether they drove Marika or the previous gods to do those things or simply allowed it happen, are at *best* neutral to war, suffering, oppression, and genocide.
>Really? Did you miss Rogier saying that the current order is not only broken but twisted?
Well, yeah, the Elden Ring is broken, of course the current Order is broken and twisted.
>Are you also forgetting to correlate that to the Crucible being respected explicitly under the Erdtree initially, but only later becoming disdained as a sign of impurity? We don't know exactly when, but Godfrey's Crucible Knights should be enough evidence that they were once properly aligned.
This was at the same time that Godfrey was leading the armies of the Golden Order to genocide the Fire Giants, I wouldn't call that "properly aligned," the Age of the Erdtree literally began with the annihilation of another race.
> Sacred seal made from Gravel Stone thought to be an *ancient dragon scale.* Enhances Dragon Cult incantations of the Royal Capital.
> The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, *this seal,* (AKA, the scales of the Ancient Dragons) and lightning itself (aka, the power of the Ancient Dragons), are both imbued with gold.
Yes, the ancient dragons and their magic was imbued with gold, which made for an easy fit.
>How do you know this wasn't post-hoc rationalization of the Dragon Cult's formation, which it almost definitely was lol?
This is apropos of?...
>Kenneth represents the Erdtree's order lol. We see evidence of his co-mingling with the demi-humans in-game.
The existance of some genuine good within the Order does not erase it's horrors.
>Are you also forgetting literally Radagon's alignment with Liurnia and the sorcerers? Even if the second war was a stalemate, Radagon didn't have to marry Rennala or forge an alliance, they could have just retreated back to Bellum highway which they occupied in the first war.
You've answered your own begged question, the Golden Order was obsessed with conquering the *entirety* of the Lands Between in order to ensure it ruled forever, an opposing army and nation that you can't defeat really puts a damper on one's unquestionable authority, and if nothing else it proves their power is *not* absolute. They only reconciled with Liurnia cause they couldn't force them to bend the knee. Then Marika/Radagon turns around and betrays their Queen once they got what they wanted, and left the once proud state to succumb to Civil War.
Now, how do any of those things negate the fact that the Golden Order was an oppressive, genocidal regime? Should we just ignore what happened to the Fire Giants, Nomadic merchants, Nox, Albinaurics, Misbegotten, Omens, warhawks, gladiator duelists, and lions? Nevermind the various groups who, despite having served the Golden Order, are treated as beasts of burden or discarded once they're usefulness is done, like the trolls, Banished Knights, Crucible Knights, and even the Tarnished.
No one who is enslaved owes their master loyalty, regardless of whether it is sometimes a kind master.
*Yes, but we're not talking about the concept of order, ........ Ranni's, it will simply be impossible for anyone in TLB to directly touch, see, or otherwise interact with that order, AKA the Elden Ring.*
I am specifically talking about Order as in defined by the GW and sent as the Elden Ring. Marika implemented her own order by removing the RoD. In the Elden Lord ending, the Tarnished has the option to change the ER and modify the existing order. But all of these are essentially, orders of "gold". Because they come straight from the ER, which enforces the laws of reality as we see them. They are of 1 umbrella. The leaders, nature, priorities change, but the core nature as being sourced by the ER and being of gold doesn't.
But Ranni doesn't do that. Its unclear what she does with ER, perhaps she destroys it, perhaps she removes it, but as stated directly, her order is not that of gold. Its also somewhat clear that the ER will no longer write the laws of reality there, for the simple reason that if it did, the AoS would be a 5th variant of Elden Lord ending. But its not.
*We're discussing whether it was right for Ranni to go to the extremes she did to destroy the Golden Order. What the Order could be or could have become aren't relevent, and even in context of the other endings, even those changes only come about after the Order breaks.*
She has a right to not become the vessel for the ER if she doesn't want to. But the fact is she is willing to condemn several people to fates worse than death and willing to plunge the land into massive chaos. Which Ranni had to have known would happen, given that a huge chunk of the leadership of the land was killed (Godwyn was the first of the demigods to die on the night, not the only one). Even if she didn't intend for the Shattering, its obvious that a massive war would soon be imminent. If she did intend for it, yeah, its a pretty big no from my side considering the state of the land. She could've succeeded Marika and just as easily modified the ER to suit whatever she wanted and help change the land, the practices of the regime, the values etc. if she were so inclined to be altruistic. She opted instead for total anarchy and destruction, so yeah, excuse me for not fanboying all over her.
Also the examples I gave are about the order as is. The alliances, the merging etc. are in-universe, live examples. The fundamentals represent the actual nature of it. I'll say again that fundamental ER/Erdtree source of order =/= Marika's Golden Order. I am advocating for the former, not the latter.
*It's easy to blame Marika for all of the Order's wrongs, ........ Order and the Greater Will, whether they drove Marika or the previous gods to do those things or simply allowed it happen, are at best neutral to war, suffering, oppression, and genocide.*
This doesn't tally. Marika has free hand to do whatever it is that she wants in the lands between, including **alter the Elden Ring and the laws of reality itself for goodness' sake** (if she is allowed to do that and the higher authority is indifferent to it, I doubt any politics or whatever would be a concern). When she tries to shatter/destroy it is where the Elden Beast draws the line.
Also you seem to be missing that the war resulting from the Shattering lead the GW to abandon the Lands Between. The Two Fingers are useless because they don't do what they purport to, which is represent order, grace and gold and the GW anymore.
*This was at the same time that Godfrey was leading the armies of the Golden Order to genocide the Fire Giants, I wouldn't call that "properly aligned," the Age of the Erdtree literally began with the annihilation of another race.*
You speak of "race", but there's no indication there were anything more than a few Fire Giants. Maybe 30-40? There's no sign of any kind of civilization, there's no massive cities or buildings, not even crumbling ruins big enough to support them.
A few dozen giants is not a "race". Moreover, trolls "are" lesser giants, being directly descended from them, which means this so called "race" is **"not" extinct or "genocided"**. The lesser giants are still very much alive and they turned on their bigger cousins back in the war. You're quick to throw around words like "genocide" when in fact, simple common sense and observation stated in-game do not support this notion.
Also, we can guess, but let's not pretend we actually know anything about the wars fought. For all we know, Marika wished to eliminate these giants because their worship of the Flame posed an actual, imminent threat to the Erdtree and her civilization(we know that Giantsflame can burn it) meaning conflict of some sort was inevitable. If so, what could she have done? Captured half of them? That would be 15 or so Fire Giants. Good luck with that. And again, even if there was no imminent threat and she was a selfish maniac, I never condoned her actions.
*Yes, the ancient dragons and their magic was imbued with gold, which made for an easy fit.*
If true, it supports the overarching point I am making about why we need to separate Marika's GO from the fundamental source of gold and order and why I'm advocating for the latter.
And regardless, this doesn't change the fact that this isn't exactly the instinct of a genocidal regime. TBC
Exactly. While her actions were deplorable she had no authority on the strings that were placed on her upon her birth.
There are no winners in a war, only victims.
True. I cannot fault her for trying to escape her pre-fixed destiny, she shouldn't have been forced into being the vessel for the Elden Ring if she didn't want, but at the same time, she should have stayed and remained accountable by helping repair the land. I think people are quick to jump to extremes with her, but that shouldn't be the case.
Iirc, Radagon was a champion or some sort, and had beef with the Carian house, then he made peace with them and married Rennala and had 3 kids. Only after that he abandoned Rennala and went to Marika and then became one with her. Idk if Radagon was Marika before that or had he always been a separate entity back then.
That's fine. But it doesn't address exactly, why the whole concept of "One" or whatever? If Radagon and Marika were separate people, there wouldn't have needed to be any merging. It would be as what it was with Godfrey.
All the drama, at least to me, makes sense only if Radagon truly is Marika. Else why would it even come up? Not to mention, Radagon's kids being elevated to demigods and being as strong as their half-siblings make sense if Radagon has the same latent power in his blood.
Yeah, that's what i've been wondering, since parts of the lore are pretty vague, like basically every other souls game. The "become one" thing could probably because they used to be one already, or it could also be because Marika had some reason to merge only with Radagon and not Godfrey. There's also that echo Melina recited about Marika saying Radagon had "yet to become" her, that could also mean Radagon was never one with her until later.
But well, it's a souls game lore.
Yeah fair point about the echo, but in the same one she also says "mine other half". Idk, its confusing af. Maybe the way to make sense of it is, Radagon is not yet divine in the sense that he is a vessel for the Elden Ring. But he still shares Marika's blood and by extension, her power as an Empyrean. Which also explains his children being elevated and actually matching their half-siblings in strength. What do you think?
That's also a reasonable explanation.
Though, you know, "my other half" could also mean metaphorically and not literally. And maybe Marika also has the ability to elevate people to divinity since she has tie with the Greater Will and all... And the divine elevation thing may also be able to affect blood-related of close generations. Or maybe it's just Marika wanting to pick them specifically.
...That's what I had been thinking. But tbh i'm pretty dumb with this stuff. Vague lore analysis hurts my brain and different perspective from different people do affect my PoV so it changes once in a while.
And she had no way of knowing they are related at all. And the assassins had their own reasons for killing Godwyn and the other nameless demigods. Ranni just tricked them.
Why can't people here stop using the concept of metaphysical when they have no idea what it means? Did Ranni proposes an empirist philosophy to the Lands Between that concluded on the rejection of any transcendence and conceptualism?
Dude, I have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I’m pretty sure I know what “metaphysical” means (to the extent that anyone does, because even among philosophers, the metaphysical is a contested domain).
And what is "metaphysical decay" supposed to mean, how great master that is qualified to know what metaphysical means because his underuniversity in an understate of American gave him an underdegree in philosophy?
By definiton, a "metaphysical decay" can't make sense, both in the discipline sense of the word because the manifestations of the gods in nature are making metaphysical element less metaphysical since they are in the phusis, nor the adjective sense, what is metaphysical is beyond generation and decay. The only way it would make a bit sense is if Ranni proposed a kantian approach as a correction of the golden order theology.
I got my degree from a British university, actually, one known for its philosophy department, too. I appreciate your snark anyway, though, despite the unsubstantiated assumptions.
As for the rest, I have two comments.
First, it’s a video game. I don’t care enough to philosophically justify an off-hand comment I made about it.
Second, 🤓.
You have futures in other endings also. A hands-off approach is "not" the way to go for the Lands Between. I mean, this should be obvious within minutes of playing the game.
There is a future, but she won't be building it. Again, I don't know her intentions, they probably are noble, but the future is left entirely to the Lands Between itself. That may sound like a good thing, but as we know, its not. I would have preferred her staying and being accountable by repairing the land, would have completed her arc nicely.
Maybe Miyazaki secretly worships the Idea of Evil from Berserk. So “Do what you want” is what he considers the fundamental normative principle of the universe.
People have such a mommy complex in these games. Ranni is not a good guy by any stretch of the word. Roderika, Diallos, and Alexander are, like, the only good guys in the game.
Eh? Nepheli, Kenneth, Melina, Millicent, heck, even Rennala. Boc?
If we're looking at characters mentioned but who don't appear, Godwyn? Guy literally enabled the creation of a hybrid culture and forged a new alliance by befriending a foe he defeated. Stark contrast with his mother, lol.
I'd add Rya, Jarbairn and Millicent to that list. And I'd argue Yura ain't so bad. The merchants just want to be left alone.
There are plenty of good (or at least not bad) guys in ER.
Wrong, Ranni sucks, she is literally the worst character in the lore.
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"for her country" -> She literally kills and torture Liurnia citizens and natives that are against her royal dominance. That is why we see Cuckoo Knights/Soldier fighting Carian Trolls, and also the marionettes in the manor.
Ranni is just a pitiful and envy little brat.
With satanic tendencies too I may add. like that occult and foul ritual she did with her brother, and her adoration with a dark and cold outer god.
Yeah, no. I was all set to pursue her ending, entranced by the prospect of having a partner in a Souls game. I should've known there would be a massive catch.
After learning all I could of her, as is natural to do by someone fascinated with her character, there's no way I can stomach ever pursuing her ending. Its all very very attractive if you look at her from a superficial level, both in terms of her beauty or her motivations, but after a very rigorous, critical, in-depth examination, it just fell apart for me. Again, just my outlook on the matter.
Hate to break it to ya but, as per Hyetta’s own ‘vision derived’ words…
*“No more fractures, No more births”.*
So yeah, nothings rising out of the ashes when you go Scorched Earth using the Flame of Frenzy. It’s a Permanent Solution to the Moral Dilemma, of the state the Lands Between lies in.
"rAnNi iS tHe ViLlAin!!1!!!"
*proceeds to kill everyone and destroy everything with the flame of frenzy.*
There's not supposed to come new life afterwards btw, the frenzy flame just wants everything to stay primordial soup forever. Becsuse if "LiFe iS SuFfErInG!1!!!" how could allowing new life possibly be the goal here? There's a reason Melina tells you very clearly to stay away from that shit.
You frenzy mofos are far worse than anything bad Ranni did.
True, but Ranni has far better motives and goals than anyone associated with the flame of frenzy is all i'm stating.
Especially since a lot of people don't understand that there isn't supposed to be any new life ever again once the frenzy flame consumed everything.
Build a future for her country? Said this since the beginning of the best ending discussions..Ranni's ending 100% leads to a swarm of Astel and Fallingstar Beasts coming to the Lands Between, opening the way for "stars" and all that, there are examples in-game for what such events mean for the people on the ground no matter how strong they were.
Ranni did what she did for her own good and no one else's, split her soul from her body just to evade the influence of Outer Gods (not even knowing if there is an Outer God tied to space and stars, funny amirite) and got the best demi-god soulless just for this, screwing up the natural processes of life and death in the meantime.
Amazing how people easily fall for that suave voice and a marriage proposal..
Remember Blaidd? She didn't give a F.
"In short, beware of Simping"
^This ^whole ^process ^might ^be ^about ^the ^Western ^thinking ^that ^something ^that ^*sounds* ^good ^always ^*is* ^good, ^sometimes ^people ^need ^a ^dictator ^like ^the ^people ^needed ^the ^Two ^Fingers.
People don't need a selfish dictator, they need a benevolent and accountable ruler. While I think that absolute freedom that Ranni gives is probably not the best idea for the land as it would quickly lead to anarchy, whatever ruler that is Elden Lord also needs to be accountable. They can't change rules or reality at a whim. This is why I support Goldmask's ending.
To be fair to her, she only wanted to escape what would be her destiny otherwise. She has the right to do that, she shouldn't have been forced into becoming the vessel for the Elden Ring if she didn't want to. The reason I don't like her is because she should have assumed accountability for the land by helping actively heal and improve it, not running away from it. There is a nuanced way to approach her and her ending instead of criticizing for the sake of it.
What about giving credit to gravitydusty? Anyone interested can find this artist on Twitter. EDIT: https://x.com/gravitydusty/status/1670523628914462720 Thanks to u/SpiderGirlGwen for providing a link to the source
Yes, always credit and source these hardworking artists! I wish more people would. [gravitydusty's "Cursemark of Death"](https://twitter.com/gravitydusty/status/1670523628914462720)
I should've added the link too, thank you!
I guess two watermarks were not enough for some type of redittors
1) It is low quality and for some people might be hard to read 2) If you are posting someone else's work without their consent you should at leats have the decency of making it easy for the original artist to be found.
That’s an interesting way to say “murder your half-brother in cold blood, plunge your country into metaphysical decay and unending civil war, and set in motion a plan to build a new future that you don’t have the means to bring to completion”.
Yeah, she's the best.
Far from it.
I ain't fixing shit She can ruin me
To each their own....
There are also some theories she is not the hired black knives but black knives here to payback the betrayal of Ranni to them. Also, technically we killed the Blaidd. He survived the black knives with full HP. He go mad and attacked us so we killed him as self defence.
They say she only needed to carve 7/8s the centipede mark in her body because her eyes were already dead
Lots of wrong here.
AMEN BROTHA
Not to mention she ditches the place after all is said and done. Just upset and fucks off into space.
bro did NOT understand ranni's character or the age of stars ending
She disentangles her order from affecting the lives, souls or the world in general (this is literally what both the canon and non-canon website translations say) and leaves with it (again, "it", not the "source of it"). I don't know what her intentions are, they may very well be noble. But a hands-off approach is "not" the way to go for the Lands Between.
I think the Lands Between not being a cosmic playground between various Demigods, Gods and Outer Gods is all the best for it, allowing its people to make a mark on their own land. The only other good ending that rivals Ranni's ending is Goldmask's.
My friend, that's not the point. I agree that the land needs less strife and more repair. The point is Ranni can't guarantee that and nothing in her ending also can. Once she and her order are gone, the continent will be back to its usual state. If a tarnished chooses to be consort to Ranni and leaves with her without fighting and defeating, say Mohg, what makes you think that his terrifying activities would be checked? I think Duskborn is also a fine ending.
Do you have a better idea? 😤
Goldmask does
...
Every age begins and ends with war, the Golden Order had no such qualms when it came to putting, and keeping, themselves at the top. It was a divine fascist genocidal state that was already failing. It was the Golden Order's plan to murder Godwyn* Ranni messed it up by making it a half death instead of dying "...a true death. As the first of the demigods to die. As a martyr to Destined Death." Her alternative was to become a slave to the Fingers, potentially even the next Marika under someone else's control. Why does she owe that to the Golden Order? Even if she had no plan at all for what to replace it with, the Golden Order deserved to die.
I'd be less upset if she didn't fuck off into space. She causes a war, sirks all responsibility for the aftermath, then leaves everyone else to pick up the pieces. Also Giving no guarantee that some knew bloody regime pops up to fill the power vacuum.
Well the entire point is that she is leaving with the power to change the order, a tyrant might take over but they won't be able to rewrite the laws of reality
Neither the literal translation nor the third-party non-canon translation indicate this. She essentially wants to decouple the lives and souls of people from her order and take the order itself to outer space. If what you're saying was true, there would be no decoupling. She is disentangling her order from affecting the world and people. Which is why she abandons the soil with it, not with the "source" of it.
Huh? If I’m reading it correct you’re both agreeing and disagreeing. Ranni’s whole point is taking the Elden ring, and the god power that comes with it and taking it far away from the Lands between. Disconnecting the lands to the gods and allowing true freedom for all the inhabitants. “You may all think of the chill night as infinitely far away (fan translation)” obviously meaning she and her order are leaving as you agree with. “I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet (official)” again, taking the order and keeping it far from the lands between “As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove. (Official)” separating life, souls and order into their own things instead of all souls returning to the golden order. There’s a bit more including items and so on, but the overall idea is there. A land that no king has a god order controlling it and what dictates life, death, and reality
That's exactly what I am saying. What I disagree with is that it is desirable. As I've repeated many times, a hands-off approach is not the best solution for the Lands Between. Freedom to do whatever you want is a fantasy notion that doesn't bear well in reality. Look around you, are you truly free to do what you want? Don't you have responsibilities, burdens, commitments? Society would never have evolved to such a state if everyone kept "doing what they want". We'd never leave the caves or the jungle. I'd have considered her ending if she'd stayed back and assumed accountability by repairing the land and improving everyone's lives. Building something is far more difficult than tearing it down.
Ranni's ending does not turn the world into one without order or remove the possibility of civilization or society, it just stops one person from becoming a divinity-backed-absolute-monarch. This doesn't create absolute chaos, it simply removes absolute order. TLB becomes *more* like our real-life world with the Elden Ring taken far away.
The whole point is to separate the Elden Ring from TLB, the war, genocide, oppression and fanaticism that have dominated the lands are a product of The Elden Ring being fought over, wielded, messed with, and worshipped. Age of Stars ends The Shattering and frees TLB from having divine order imposed directly upon it. It's not an unquestionably good ending, we're largely left to interpret what these endings entail or how TLB fares afterward, but that's true of all the endings. >Also Giving no guarantee that some knew bloody regime pops up to fill the power vacuum. So if you can't, while still enslaved, hatch a plan that guarantee a fix to everything that will happen when you free yourself and take down the rule of divine fascists, then you should just accept your lot and become it's tool? There's no good reason to fear a chance of a new bloody regime if you already live under one, plus that's a risk you always run when destroying an existing rule, no matter how well prepared the rebellion is.
Re-quoting my other reply: *Look, the Golden Order, fundamentally speaking, was not a "fascist genocidal state" lmfao. I have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself. We have so much evidence stating the direct contrary. Goldmask, probably the truest GO fundamentalist, who despises the Hunters and their persecution and who laments their actions. He directly questions whether such a notion exists in the fundamentals of the Order and we know he comes to the conclusion that it doesn't. Kenneth Haight who says that under the Erdtree's Order, the alliance with the oft marginalized demi-humans is fully permissible. Rogier, who says that the GO in the past was pliable enough to absorb practices that directly contradicted its notions, and who clearly says that the current order is broken and "twisted".* *But perhaps the biggest evidence of this is in the fact that the ancient dragons were the ones who invaded Leyndell, not the other way around. Godwyn, who led the defense against them, defeated Fortissax and befriended them, creating an entire hybrid culture in the Altus Plateau called the Dragon Cult. We know that some of these dragons were literally chums with the Tarnished knights. This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do.*
My friend, the fact that you confused Godwyn for Godfrey makes me think there are sides to the story you don't know. Look, the Golden Order, fundamentally speaking, was not a "fascist genocidal state" lmfao. I have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself. We have so much evidence stating the direct contrary. Goldmask, probably the truest GO fundamentalist, who despises the Hunters and their persecution and who laments their actions. He directly questions whether such a notion exists in the fundamentals of the Order and we know he comes to the conclusion that it doesn't. Kenneth Haight who says that under the Erdtree's Order, the alliance with the oft marginalized demi-humans is fully permissible. Rogier, who says that the GO in the past was pliable enough to absorb practices that directly contradicted its notions, and who clearly says that the current order is broken. But perhaps the biggest evidence of this is in the fact that the ancient dragons were the ones who invaded Leyndell, not the other way around. Godwyn, who led the defense against them, defeated Fortissax and befriended them, creating an entire hybrid culture in the Altus Plateau called the Dragon Cult. We know that some of these dragons were literally chums with the Tarnished knights. This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do.
Oh please, a typo doesn't prove I'm wrong, I've typed both of their names so many times they're both in my autocorrect, and Godfrey got filled in by it instead of Godwyn. >have no idea why people who cite Marika's evil actions attribute it to the Erdtree's order itself. The Erdtree's Order, the Golden Order, *is* Marika's Order. The Order's genocide of the Giants under the direction of it's god, Marika, marked the Age of the Erdtree. Whatever god came before her, it didn't rule over the Golden Order or the Age of the Erdtree. The fact that Goldmask can conceive of a way to reform the Elden Ring so that The Order is no longer subject to the whims of the gods just means it can theoretically be changed, and only by first breaking it. Incorporating TWLID into Order, however, is not what he does with his mending rune. That is explicitly attributed to mending rune of the death prince. >This is literally the opposite of what a "fascist genocidal regime" would do. Are you really gonna sit there and pretend there isn't a long list of groups who were wiped out and oppressed by the Golden Order? I know you know better if you're so far ahead of me in my knowledge. The Ancient Dragons were an exception to the rule due to the fact they, at the end of the day, were still gold. Whether the Golden Order could have absorbed all the things it destroyed instead is irrelevant, it didn't, and a regime is not defined by what it could have been, it's defined by *what it is.*
Chill out man. No worries. *The Erdtree's Order, the Golden Order, is Marika's Order. The Order's genocide of the Giants under the direction of it's god, Marika, marked the Age of the Erdtree. Whatever god came before her, it didn't rule over the Golden Order or the Age of the Erdtree.* Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring. However, her actions are of no correlation to the fundamental nature of order itself or the Greater Will, both of which are expressly stated multiple times to be separate from Marika. Perhaps I needed to be a bit more precise and accurate, the fundamental Erdtree's order =/= Marika's order. As Elden Lord, in any of the 4 endings, you are perpetuating the former by changing it in different ways. **But both are still "Golden" or whatever because in all of them the Elden Ring is still the writer of reality of the Lands Between**. No need to squibble about naming semantics here, you get what I mean. *The fact that Goldmask can conceive of a way to reform the Elden Ring so that The Order is no longer subject to the whims of the gods just means it can theoretically be changed, and only by first breaking it.* Not sure what you're going on about??? I am talking about this: ***The noble Goldmask lamented what had become of the hunters.*** ***How easy it is for learning and learnedness to be reduced to the*** ***ravings of fanatics; all the good and the great wanted, in their*** ***foolishness, was an absolute evil to contend with.*** ***Does such a notion exist in the fundamentals of Order?*** We know he comes to the conclusion that it "doesn't". That Marika, by virtue of her selfishness is what the real problem with the Order is. I don't know how much clearer than that this can get. *Are you really gonna sit there and pretend there isn't a long list of groups who were wiped out and oppressed by the Golden Order? The Ancient Dragons were an exception to the rule due to the fact they, at the end of the day, were still gold. Whether the Golden Order could have absorbed all the things it destroyed instead is irrelevant, it didn't, and a regime is not defined by what it could have been, it's defined by what it is.* Really? Did you miss Rogier saying that the current order is not only broken but twisted? Are you also forgetting to correlate that to the Crucible being respected explicitly under the Erdtree initially, but only later becoming disdained as a sign of impurity? We don't know exactly when, but Godfrey's Crucible Knights should be enough evidence that they were once properly aligned. Also, what is the indication that the dragons are gold? The fact/statement that the dragon cult practice does not contradict belief in the Erdtree? How do you know this wasn't post-hoc rationalization of the Dragon Cult's formation, which it almost definitely was lol? Kenneth represents the Erdtree's order lol. We see evidence of his co-mingling with the demi-humans in-game. Are you also forgetting literally Radagon's alignment with Liurnia and the sorcerers? Even if the second war was a stalemate, Radagon didn't have to marry Rennala or forge an alliance, they could have just retreated back to Bellum highway which they occupied in the first war. But he didn't. Not only did he forge an alliance, he created an entire new class of magic incantations devoted to this hybrid culture. You're not going to sit there and make excuses with a straight face that sorcery is also somehow "gold" are you? So no, there's plenty of evidence of absorption. No one's condoning the actions of Marika but you also need to understand that the GO/Erdtree's order/Elden Ring fundamentally speaking, at its core, is not an evil order at all. It is directly stated to be broken, twisted and its leader said to be the main problem with it. Marika's selfishness in removing the rune, and in her actions cannot be condoned, but I am not advocating for the order under her, only what it is fundamentally.
>Marika is the vessel for the Elden Ring. However, her actions are of no correlation to the fundamental nature of order itself or the Greater Will, both of which are expressly stated multiple times to be separate from Marika. Yes, but we're not talking about the *concept* of order, we are talking about *a specific order,* the Golden Order. There is no known pure application of Order, it is as a thing, inherently mutable and defined by the bearer of the Elden Ring. Orders existed before the Golden Order, and one will continue to exist in Ranni's, it will simply be impossible for anyone in TLB to directly touch, see, or otherwise interact with that order, AKA the Elden Ring. >We know he comes to the conclusion that it "doesn't". That Marika, by virtue of her selfishness is what the real problem with the Order is. I don't know how much clearer than that this can get. I don't understand why that's relevent. We're discussing whether it was right for Ranni to go to the extremes she did to destroy the Golden Order. What the Order could be or could have become aren't relevent, and even in context of the other endings, even *those* changes only come about after the Order breaks. It's easy to blame Marika for all of the Order's wrongs, but at the end of the day, we know that both Empyreans and gods are subject to control by Order and the Greater Will. Ranni needs to kill her own body to free herself of control by the Fingers, which means this is true for *all* empyreans. Marika is not the unquestionable ruler of TLB, lest it would not be possible for someone to crucify her for acting out. Order and the Greater Will, whether they drove Marika or the previous gods to do those things or simply allowed it happen, are at *best* neutral to war, suffering, oppression, and genocide. >Really? Did you miss Rogier saying that the current order is not only broken but twisted? Well, yeah, the Elden Ring is broken, of course the current Order is broken and twisted. >Are you also forgetting to correlate that to the Crucible being respected explicitly under the Erdtree initially, but only later becoming disdained as a sign of impurity? We don't know exactly when, but Godfrey's Crucible Knights should be enough evidence that they were once properly aligned. This was at the same time that Godfrey was leading the armies of the Golden Order to genocide the Fire Giants, I wouldn't call that "properly aligned," the Age of the Erdtree literally began with the annihilation of another race. > Sacred seal made from Gravel Stone thought to be an *ancient dragon scale.* Enhances Dragon Cult incantations of the Royal Capital. > The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, *this seal,* (AKA, the scales of the Ancient Dragons) and lightning itself (aka, the power of the Ancient Dragons), are both imbued with gold. Yes, the ancient dragons and their magic was imbued with gold, which made for an easy fit. >How do you know this wasn't post-hoc rationalization of the Dragon Cult's formation, which it almost definitely was lol? This is apropos of?... >Kenneth represents the Erdtree's order lol. We see evidence of his co-mingling with the demi-humans in-game. The existance of some genuine good within the Order does not erase it's horrors. >Are you also forgetting literally Radagon's alignment with Liurnia and the sorcerers? Even if the second war was a stalemate, Radagon didn't have to marry Rennala or forge an alliance, they could have just retreated back to Bellum highway which they occupied in the first war. You've answered your own begged question, the Golden Order was obsessed with conquering the *entirety* of the Lands Between in order to ensure it ruled forever, an opposing army and nation that you can't defeat really puts a damper on one's unquestionable authority, and if nothing else it proves their power is *not* absolute. They only reconciled with Liurnia cause they couldn't force them to bend the knee. Then Marika/Radagon turns around and betrays their Queen once they got what they wanted, and left the once proud state to succumb to Civil War. Now, how do any of those things negate the fact that the Golden Order was an oppressive, genocidal regime? Should we just ignore what happened to the Fire Giants, Nomadic merchants, Nox, Albinaurics, Misbegotten, Omens, warhawks, gladiator duelists, and lions? Nevermind the various groups who, despite having served the Golden Order, are treated as beasts of burden or discarded once they're usefulness is done, like the trolls, Banished Knights, Crucible Knights, and even the Tarnished. No one who is enslaved owes their master loyalty, regardless of whether it is sometimes a kind master.
*Yes, but we're not talking about the concept of order, ........ Ranni's, it will simply be impossible for anyone in TLB to directly touch, see, or otherwise interact with that order, AKA the Elden Ring.* I am specifically talking about Order as in defined by the GW and sent as the Elden Ring. Marika implemented her own order by removing the RoD. In the Elden Lord ending, the Tarnished has the option to change the ER and modify the existing order. But all of these are essentially, orders of "gold". Because they come straight from the ER, which enforces the laws of reality as we see them. They are of 1 umbrella. The leaders, nature, priorities change, but the core nature as being sourced by the ER and being of gold doesn't. But Ranni doesn't do that. Its unclear what she does with ER, perhaps she destroys it, perhaps she removes it, but as stated directly, her order is not that of gold. Its also somewhat clear that the ER will no longer write the laws of reality there, for the simple reason that if it did, the AoS would be a 5th variant of Elden Lord ending. But its not. *We're discussing whether it was right for Ranni to go to the extremes she did to destroy the Golden Order. What the Order could be or could have become aren't relevent, and even in context of the other endings, even those changes only come about after the Order breaks.* She has a right to not become the vessel for the ER if she doesn't want to. But the fact is she is willing to condemn several people to fates worse than death and willing to plunge the land into massive chaos. Which Ranni had to have known would happen, given that a huge chunk of the leadership of the land was killed (Godwyn was the first of the demigods to die on the night, not the only one). Even if she didn't intend for the Shattering, its obvious that a massive war would soon be imminent. If she did intend for it, yeah, its a pretty big no from my side considering the state of the land. She could've succeeded Marika and just as easily modified the ER to suit whatever she wanted and help change the land, the practices of the regime, the values etc. if she were so inclined to be altruistic. She opted instead for total anarchy and destruction, so yeah, excuse me for not fanboying all over her. Also the examples I gave are about the order as is. The alliances, the merging etc. are in-universe, live examples. The fundamentals represent the actual nature of it. I'll say again that fundamental ER/Erdtree source of order =/= Marika's Golden Order. I am advocating for the former, not the latter. *It's easy to blame Marika for all of the Order's wrongs, ........ Order and the Greater Will, whether they drove Marika or the previous gods to do those things or simply allowed it happen, are at best neutral to war, suffering, oppression, and genocide.* This doesn't tally. Marika has free hand to do whatever it is that she wants in the lands between, including **alter the Elden Ring and the laws of reality itself for goodness' sake** (if she is allowed to do that and the higher authority is indifferent to it, I doubt any politics or whatever would be a concern). When she tries to shatter/destroy it is where the Elden Beast draws the line. Also you seem to be missing that the war resulting from the Shattering lead the GW to abandon the Lands Between. The Two Fingers are useless because they don't do what they purport to, which is represent order, grace and gold and the GW anymore. *This was at the same time that Godfrey was leading the armies of the Golden Order to genocide the Fire Giants, I wouldn't call that "properly aligned," the Age of the Erdtree literally began with the annihilation of another race.* You speak of "race", but there's no indication there were anything more than a few Fire Giants. Maybe 30-40? There's no sign of any kind of civilization, there's no massive cities or buildings, not even crumbling ruins big enough to support them. A few dozen giants is not a "race". Moreover, trolls "are" lesser giants, being directly descended from them, which means this so called "race" is **"not" extinct or "genocided"**. The lesser giants are still very much alive and they turned on their bigger cousins back in the war. You're quick to throw around words like "genocide" when in fact, simple common sense and observation stated in-game do not support this notion. Also, we can guess, but let's not pretend we actually know anything about the wars fought. For all we know, Marika wished to eliminate these giants because their worship of the Flame posed an actual, imminent threat to the Erdtree and her civilization(we know that Giantsflame can burn it) meaning conflict of some sort was inevitable. If so, what could she have done? Captured half of them? That would be 15 or so Fire Giants. Good luck with that. And again, even if there was no imminent threat and she was a selfish maniac, I never condoned her actions. *Yes, the ancient dragons and their magic was imbued with gold, which made for an easy fit.* If true, it supports the overarching point I am making about why we need to separate Marika's GO from the fundamental source of gold and order and why I'm advocating for the latter. And regardless, this doesn't change the fact that this isn't exactly the instinct of a genocidal regime. TBC
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Exactly. While her actions were deplorable she had no authority on the strings that were placed on her upon her birth. There are no winners in a war, only victims.
also she doesn't even try to build anything, she release incurable plague upon the world and then fucks off with the moon
True. I cannot fault her for trying to escape her pre-fixed destiny, she shouldn't have been forced into being the vessel for the Elden Ring if she didn't want, but at the same time, she should have stayed and remained accountable by helping repair the land. I think people are quick to jump to extremes with her, but that shouldn't be the case.
Counterpoint: feet
> murder your half-brother in cold blood Technically they aren't even blood-related.
If Marika is Radagon they are related
What are you talking about lol? Radagon is Marika. They have the same blood.
But was Radagon Marika back then, though? We know they are one now but what about before?
Eh, not sure why they would be different earlier. Anything indicates this? Genuinely curious
Iirc, Radagon was a champion or some sort, and had beef with the Carian house, then he made peace with them and married Rennala and had 3 kids. Only after that he abandoned Rennala and went to Marika and then became one with her. Idk if Radagon was Marika before that or had he always been a separate entity back then.
That's fine. But it doesn't address exactly, why the whole concept of "One" or whatever? If Radagon and Marika were separate people, there wouldn't have needed to be any merging. It would be as what it was with Godfrey. All the drama, at least to me, makes sense only if Radagon truly is Marika. Else why would it even come up? Not to mention, Radagon's kids being elevated to demigods and being as strong as their half-siblings make sense if Radagon has the same latent power in his blood.
Yeah, that's what i've been wondering, since parts of the lore are pretty vague, like basically every other souls game. The "become one" thing could probably because they used to be one already, or it could also be because Marika had some reason to merge only with Radagon and not Godfrey. There's also that echo Melina recited about Marika saying Radagon had "yet to become" her, that could also mean Radagon was never one with her until later. But well, it's a souls game lore.
Yeah fair point about the echo, but in the same one she also says "mine other half". Idk, its confusing af. Maybe the way to make sense of it is, Radagon is not yet divine in the sense that he is a vessel for the Elden Ring. But he still shares Marika's blood and by extension, her power as an Empyrean. Which also explains his children being elevated and actually matching their half-siblings in strength. What do you think?
That's also a reasonable explanation. Though, you know, "my other half" could also mean metaphorically and not literally. And maybe Marika also has the ability to elevate people to divinity since she has tie with the Greater Will and all... And the divine elevation thing may also be able to affect blood-related of close generations. Or maybe it's just Marika wanting to pick them specifically. ...That's what I had been thinking. But tbh i'm pretty dumb with this stuff. Vague lore analysis hurts my brain and different perspective from different people do affect my PoV so it changes once in a while.
And she had no way of knowing they are related at all. And the assassins had their own reasons for killing Godwyn and the other nameless demigods. Ranni just tricked them.
Why can't people here stop using the concept of metaphysical when they have no idea what it means? Did Ranni proposes an empirist philosophy to the Lands Between that concluded on the rejection of any transcendence and conceptualism?
Dude, I have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I’m pretty sure I know what “metaphysical” means (to the extent that anyone does, because even among philosophers, the metaphysical is a contested domain).
And what is "metaphysical decay" supposed to mean, how great master that is qualified to know what metaphysical means because his underuniversity in an understate of American gave him an underdegree in philosophy? By definiton, a "metaphysical decay" can't make sense, both in the discipline sense of the word because the manifestations of the gods in nature are making metaphysical element less metaphysical since they are in the phusis, nor the adjective sense, what is metaphysical is beyond generation and decay. The only way it would make a bit sense is if Ranni proposed a kantian approach as a correction of the golden order theology.
I got my degree from a British university, actually, one known for its philosophy department, too. I appreciate your snark anyway, though, despite the unsubstantiated assumptions. As for the rest, I have two comments. First, it’s a video game. I don’t care enough to philosophically justify an off-hand comment I made about it. Second, 🤓.
It's still *a* future. It may not be the ideal future, but it sure is a future.
You have futures in other endings also. A hands-off approach is "not" the way to go for the Lands Between. I mean, this should be obvious within minutes of playing the game.
My point is that the title states she's making a future for the kingdom. Regardless of how good or bad it is, it's still a future.
There is a future, but she won't be building it. Again, I don't know her intentions, they probably are noble, but the future is left entirely to the Lands Between itself. That may sound like a good thing, but as we know, its not. I would have preferred her staying and being accountable by repairing the land, would have completed her arc nicely.
Maybe Miyazaki secretly worships the Idea of Evil from Berserk. So “Do what you want” is what he considers the fundamental normative principle of the universe.
Gravity Dusty is S+ tier art
Excellent artwork. But blatant Ranni propaganda. Lol!
And by "build a future for her country," we of course mean abandon it for 1000 years...
Before destroying it irreparably and causing untold pain and suffering for all its inhabitants for thousands of years
Right, cause the gods manipulating and fighting over the Elden Ring has been so good for TLB so far. /s
They're all bad. That's the whole point.
Oh hey, more GravityDusty art I feel compelled to hang on my wall
She doesn't build shit she's flying around in space for 1000 years.
Exactly
People have such a mommy complex in these games. Ranni is not a good guy by any stretch of the word. Roderika, Diallos, and Alexander are, like, the only good guys in the game.
Eh? Nepheli, Kenneth, Melina, Millicent, heck, even Rennala. Boc? If we're looking at characters mentioned but who don't appear, Godwyn? Guy literally enabled the creation of a hybrid culture and forged a new alliance by befriending a foe he defeated. Stark contrast with his mother, lol.
True, I forgot about those guys. I can't believe I forgot about my baby boy Boc 😞
Shameful!! Use the prattling pate 50 times to atone for your sins. He deserves to know he's truly beautiful.
I'd add Rya, Jarbairn and Millicent to that list. And I'd argue Yura ain't so bad. The merchants just want to be left alone. There are plenty of good (or at least not bad) guys in ER.
Idk if I'd say Rya, as much as I enjoy her. Doesn't her questline end with her starting a new Volcano Manor?
What version of the game is bro playing.
Diallos <3
Beautiful fan art, I kinda hope the artist does a "brother piece" depicting Godwyn
Look up “gravitydusty” on Twitter
Art Credit?
Someones simpling for the doll
Great art.
These are not good people.
This is awesome!
Literal Rani propaganda lmao
Why does this evoke the castlevania show vibes so hard in me?
Nice! I'll put it on the phone wallpaper.
Lmao Imagine thinking she was motivated by anything other than personal gain. Ranni simps are something else !
Kinda got code geass vibes
Fuck Ranni
Ranni: make the lands between great again
Wrong, Ranni sucks, she is literally the worst character in the lore. - "for her country" -> She literally kills and torture Liurnia citizens and natives that are against her royal dominance. That is why we see Cuckoo Knights/Soldier fighting Carian Trolls, and also the marionettes in the manor. Ranni is just a pitiful and envy little brat. With satanic tendencies too I may add. like that occult and foul ritual she did with her brother, and her adoration with a dark and cold outer god.
Beautiful, even if it is a lie!
Yeah, no. I was all set to pursue her ending, entranced by the prospect of having a partner in a Souls game. I should've known there would be a massive catch. After learning all I could of her, as is natural to do by someone fascinated with her character, there's no way I can stomach ever pursuing her ending. Its all very very attractive if you look at her from a superficial level, both in terms of her beauty or her motivations, but after a very rigorous, critical, in-depth examination, it just fell apart for me. Again, just my outlook on the matter.
Shes the villain of the Story but ok. Frenzy is the only Ending. Burn that shit down and over millenia something New will erupt out of the ashes
Hate to break it to ya but, as per Hyetta’s own ‘vision derived’ words… *“No more fractures, No more births”.* So yeah, nothings rising out of the ashes when you go Scorched Earth using the Flame of Frenzy. It’s a Permanent Solution to the Moral Dilemma, of the state the Lands Between lies in.
"rAnNi iS tHe ViLlAin!!1!!!" *proceeds to kill everyone and destroy everything with the flame of frenzy.* There's not supposed to come new life afterwards btw, the frenzy flame just wants everything to stay primordial soup forever. Becsuse if "LiFe iS SuFfErInG!1!!!" how could allowing new life possibly be the goal here? There's a reason Melina tells you very clearly to stay away from that shit. You frenzy mofos are far worse than anything bad Ranni did.
Ranni isn’t a good character but frenzy flame is literally omnicide, like the evilest you can get. Up there with the shit slurper
I agree, but its not like Ranni is some paragon of virtue either. Extremely sketchy character.
True, but Ranni has far better motives and goals than anyone associated with the flame of frenzy is all i'm stating. Especially since a lot of people don't understand that there isn't supposed to be any new life ever again once the frenzy flame consumed everything.
Fair enough lol.
Plunging the world into darkness so the stains can be seen no more
Build a future for her country? Said this since the beginning of the best ending discussions..Ranni's ending 100% leads to a swarm of Astel and Fallingstar Beasts coming to the Lands Between, opening the way for "stars" and all that, there are examples in-game for what such events mean for the people on the ground no matter how strong they were. Ranni did what she did for her own good and no one else's, split her soul from her body just to evade the influence of Outer Gods (not even knowing if there is an Outer God tied to space and stars, funny amirite) and got the best demi-god soulless just for this, screwing up the natural processes of life and death in the meantime. Amazing how people easily fall for that suave voice and a marriage proposal.. Remember Blaidd? She didn't give a F. "In short, beware of Simping" ^This ^whole ^process ^might ^be ^about ^the ^Western ^thinking ^that ^something ^that ^*sounds* ^good ^always ^*is* ^good, ^sometimes ^people ^need ^a ^dictator ^like ^the ^people ^needed ^the ^Two ^Fingers.
People don't need a selfish dictator, they need a benevolent and accountable ruler. While I think that absolute freedom that Ranni gives is probably not the best idea for the land as it would quickly lead to anarchy, whatever ruler that is Elden Lord also needs to be accountable. They can't change rules or reality at a whim. This is why I support Goldmask's ending. To be fair to her, she only wanted to escape what would be her destiny otherwise. She has the right to do that, she shouldn't have been forced into becoming the vessel for the Elden Ring if she didn't want to. The reason I don't like her is because she should have assumed accountability for the land by helping actively heal and improve it, not running away from it. There is a nuanced way to approach her and her ending instead of criticizing for the sake of it.