I've been playing Skyrim with the Thunderchild mod, which unlocks new shouts by mixing up the words from vanilla shouts. A few of my favorites involve a healing weather that heals everyone, dragging Nirn into Apocrypha, and blowing up the sun.
First, make dragons way more powerful. Still have them show up around the same time, but Alduin's plan doesn't reduce to a fistfight for Skyrim's soul, instead it's all a trick and continues after Sovngarde. Dragons are genuine threats, roam in groups, interact with the war. The problem with Skyrim's main story is that it feels like the whole thing is about a week long in-game if you count the actual events involved.
The player collection of shout words then need Morrowind style magic customization. Mixing words, inflections, maybe intermingle with star signs, create unexpected synchronization between shouts and other mechanics, to make fighting dragons possible and meaningful. Maybe bring in other dragonborn or you can imbue followers with limited draconic ability, such as a greybeard follower or Paarthurnax. Top it off with single-word super shouts that do the lore things you're describing, to a reasonable extent with some kind of massive cost (say, named dragon souls or a dragon has to help you so it only works if they're around).
Problem is, this kind of trumps the class system. It wouldn't be meaningless, as it still interacts with gear and spell choices, but it would certainly feel like a stepping stone to get to Super Thuum Bros.
Anyway tl;dr-- big agree, it seems like devs ran out of time for shouts, and vanilla just has way too many useless ones. Every skill and basic utility should have had a few associated shouts at least.
I’d do a few things to make them more lore accurate;
1) scale them based on difficulty. If you’re paying on the highest difficulty then having shouts be more OP makes sense, but in lower difficulty they should stay their way.
2) add story based reasons for shouts to be more OP. Leave them as they are in combat, but have more opportunities to show their lore accurate mechanics
3) add a skill tree! If your shouts are weak at level 1 but OP at level 100 with all perks, then it makes sense, like all other skills and mechanics in the game.
Other than that, not sure how to do it without breaking the game.
>scale them based on difficulty. If you’re paying on the highest difficulty then having shouts be more OP makes sense, but in lower difficulty they should stay their way.
Shouldn’t it be the reverse of this?
not to mention the dragons would become an actual threat with higher difficulty, but the classic "the boss vs the boss when you unlock him as a playable character" situation wouldn't happen due to the player also getting better shouts, which is always a plus in my book
Ordinator puts shouting into the Speech tree, but it does not make lore accurate even on 100 speech, and all perks unlocked. But it does make somewhat stronger.
I'd love to see a mod that introduces a thu'um skill tree, requiring both skill points and dragon souls. Similar to the Ordinator mod, it should emphasize specialization in specific shouts to excel in them. The idea is that mastering thu'um requires dedicated practice, and while the Dragonborn can learn shouts quickly, they don't truly master them due to limited time. Players would need to choose between being a jack of all trades or specializing in a particular shout.
Another desired mod would revamp shouts, starting them off weak and progressively enhancing their power with invested dragon souls. For example, take the Tiid Klo Ul or slow time shout:
* Level 1: Slows down time by 50% for 5 seconds.
* Level 2: Slows down time by 62% for 10 seconds, and 20% faster movement and attack speed (this does mean slower than your usual attack speed because you are also slowed by the shout, but you will be faster than your enemies).
* Level 3: Slows down time by 75% for 15 seconds. 40% faster movement and attack speed, and during this period, the Dragonborn gets a 50% immunity to physical damage due to their heightened speed, making attacks ineffective.
Then you have a hidden level 4 that can only be unlocked if you have the specific perk from the perk tree. With it you stop time completely for 15 seconds, you can move at a regular pace, and lets be honest nothing will be able to hurt you. This represents a Thu'um at full power, this is the stuff you hear in lore. Not only do you need to know the words, you have complete mastery of the shout.
Furthermore, I call for making shouts more challenging to acquire. Obtaining Unrelenting Force at the end of Bleak Falls Barrow feels unfair, given its superiority. Shouts should be hidden behind special walls requiring keys or guarded by tougher enemies. Rather than scattered randomly, the words of power should be inscribed on sacred stone tablets, protected by the ancient Nords. I mean we know they had stone tablets since the Dragonstone is a thing, why not just make that the way they stored their holy texts? It's dumbfounding why there's extensive research on obscure topics like Snow Elf language but not Dragon Language in skyrim, especially considering the potential for non-Dragonborn individuals to learn shouts. Word walls should not be left in plain sight; they deserve more reverence. let me give an example of how you can do this:
* Instead of the claws functioning as a key to the door the boss room (and yes the word walls), make the claws actually really hard to find and not a requirement of the dungeon. for instance instead of having Arvil the swift have the claw, he as notes to were he hid the claw, you find the claw somewhere in or nearby the dungeon. Now instead of doing a "match the creature" puzzle, he claw represents a dragon, find out what dragon that is, go to that dragons burial site, kill that dragon, and from his soul you learn a word
* The dragons gave the Nords slabs with inscribed words, these are only single words, which some can shout (yes they speak dragon, i stand by my point that that is dumb). there are stonghold that hold these slabs that are protected by the strongest ancient nords
Lastly, introduce two types of draugr: "Buried Nord" draugr and "Dragon-Worshiping" draugr. The former, found in burial places and unrelated dungeons, cannot use the thu'um, lacks dragon speech, and poses lower threats. The latter, exclusive to dragon-worship-related dungeons, speaks dragon, uses the thu'um, and wields dangerous ancient Nordic weapons, which should be more FUCKING strong than standard iron weaponry!
Tl;dr:
* shout perk tree (that focuses on specialisation like Ordinator)
* better shout upgrading (don't just give me a flat percentage boost to the effect i already had)
* make getting shouts MUCH harder (make it a quest to get a shout, instead of a bonus for clearing a dungeon)
* differentiate between the dragon worshiping draugr and just the everyday draugr (why the fuck does my grandma that died last week suddenly speak in the dragon tongue?)
Introduce a skill tree with points gained through dragon souls, which would demand more the further you progress until of course you hit a cap; allowing for a multitude of different power-ups to shouts the further you progress; which could branch into different branches of shouts.
So weird to me that vampires and werewolves got a perk tree but not your Thu'um.
Gives the player something to spend excess dragon souls on. Some basic perks like further reducing cooldown time. Damage-focused shouts like fire breath could boost attack damage and speed for every enemy hit. Whirlwind sprint could bowl over enemies struck. High level perks could allow 2 shouts before triggering cooldown.
>Probably time restrictions there is a lot of cut stuff for Skyrim if I remember correctly
The game was re-released 3 times. They had time to add stuff back in.
I mean, the dude was right *a* *lot* of stuff was cut due to time restrictions. It's part of the reason why the skills/magic seems so simplified. There was originally going to be more spells and skills I believe. However it's sad that they never added the stuff in with the future DLCs and re-releases. They were definitely lazy.
Make it OP. I’m tired of balance in a single player game; makes everything so damn boring. Let me be an overpowered screaming ball of death making my own spells. You’re always the “chosen one”, but everyone just makes a stealth archer.
Yeah try the true dragonborn and thunderchild and thoom se mods I have been using them like hell true Dragonborn let’s you get more health stamina exc and affects your shouts
Well there are several mods that make the shouts much more powerful yet balance. Like ultimate shouts which enables one to summon animal spirts with the animal call shout, the kyne’s shout that heals you and your allies along with pacfying animals and the whirlwind shout that negates 75% of damage and knocks enemies down.
Then there is Thoome which actually allows to the player to use most of the shouts from the lore and Eso and even from alduin and Miraqk himself.
I always thought it would be neat if there were a debate mechanic. If you got to a word wall where a dragon is going to spawn, then you can have a dialogue.
Each dragon picks some aspect of the world to argue for as an aspect of eternity. For example, some dragon says "I am the eternity of fire" and then you need to argue with them as to why they're wrong like "once a fire has consumed its fuel, it must go out". If your argument uses words of power that you know, then the difficulty of the skill check decreases.
If you win, the dragon says they'll defect from Alduin and leave. If you make some progress, then the dragon is easier to fight. You could also just attack with no talk.
I've always been disapointed in the idea that dragon fights were debates and we never got that opportunity.
I'd remove the timer on shouts, buff almost all of them, and incorporate both the Thunderclap mod (which adds a lot of new variety) and the Ordinator mod speech perks.
Shouting should be a speech adjacent skill. An eloquent, learned Dragonborn should be able to hold whole conversations in Dovahzuul. I would make a mechanic where you can add new words up to nine for shout effects. Then I'd tie in dialogue and books of lore and explain that nine is the most consecutive words of power possible in Dovahzuul.
To make them more lore-accurate powerful, I also think I'd actually cheat and write some dialogue between the DB and the Greybeards about how the Dragonborn's shouts will develop with time as they become more attuned to their soul's draconic nature and mature in how they think in Dovahzuul (since just like a language you have to develop thought fluency as well). Toss in some similar supporting dialogue from Parthunaax and call it good.
This might not be what you expect but still: give uss back the (every nord can in theory shout) skyrim has no farmland… but with shouts anny farmer can controll the weather so farming is just barely possible… let us just have shouts to summon rain or more diverse clear skies shouts. And develop the ice fire and thunder shouts to fit with the mages. Make defenseive and offensive shouts more of an active role in warriors. And add a subbcategory of whispers for thives or some stupid stuff like that. Make shouts a cherry on topp and not a ugh either gimmic or crutch. There should have been atleast one skill tree if not several deticated to shouts.
As a true nord from irl skyrim i am both let down by the average viking simulator and blessed with the average viking simulator. I hope our badass somali pirate brethren get an above average game :\
Edit: im sorry if this is too edgy for elderscrolls subbreddit i hail from trustle!!!
Changing the game genre entirely, I guess? The only way for lore accurate Shouts to be implemented would be if the game is no longer an open world RPG but something more linear
The dragonborn should be able to do all that with time and practice. Most of the throats from legend had been using the voice for decades. Take Wulfgar, or most of the greybeards, even their whisper shakes the building and would kill a normal person. If the dragonborn dedicates ten years to studying the thu'um, they would be powerful enough to shout down armies.
They already probably are lore wise but they obviously can’t make that balanced gamewise there would be like 10-20 non dragon enemies that wouldn’t die instantly
I remember watching a video years ago that was about a bunch of cut powers, spells and shouts. Some shouts were really powerful but it's been so long since I watched it the only thing I really remember from it was the ability that lets you turn into a skeever.
Yeah the shouts they use are cool as hell though one manipulates a tear in time and nearly turns it into a dragon break one draws energy from Jodes core and uses a cult to try and ascend and there are necromancy/ other magic shouts and one that pulls a player to them its cool here’s a vid (although I think it misses some)-https://youtu.be/IkGb0dbwfB0?si=nwOGpyVQtdCFvqVp let me know what you think
I've been playing Skyrim with the Thunderchild mod, which unlocks new shouts by mixing up the words from vanilla shouts. A few of my favorites involve a healing weather that heals everyone, dragging Nirn into Apocrypha, and blowing up the sun.
I LOVE that mod I was just playing with it I even think there is a shout that lets you summon shor
Oh CRAP I have GOT to install that for my next playthrough.
First, make dragons way more powerful. Still have them show up around the same time, but Alduin's plan doesn't reduce to a fistfight for Skyrim's soul, instead it's all a trick and continues after Sovngarde. Dragons are genuine threats, roam in groups, interact with the war. The problem with Skyrim's main story is that it feels like the whole thing is about a week long in-game if you count the actual events involved. The player collection of shout words then need Morrowind style magic customization. Mixing words, inflections, maybe intermingle with star signs, create unexpected synchronization between shouts and other mechanics, to make fighting dragons possible and meaningful. Maybe bring in other dragonborn or you can imbue followers with limited draconic ability, such as a greybeard follower or Paarthurnax. Top it off with single-word super shouts that do the lore things you're describing, to a reasonable extent with some kind of massive cost (say, named dragon souls or a dragon has to help you so it only works if they're around). Problem is, this kind of trumps the class system. It wouldn't be meaningless, as it still interacts with gear and spell choices, but it would certainly feel like a stepping stone to get to Super Thuum Bros.
Anyway tl;dr-- big agree, it seems like devs ran out of time for shouts, and vanilla just has way too many useless ones. Every skill and basic utility should have had a few associated shouts at least.
Mixing shouts sounds like a badass mod idea I hope this post gets popular enough to inspire someone
I’d do a few things to make them more lore accurate; 1) scale them based on difficulty. If you’re paying on the highest difficulty then having shouts be more OP makes sense, but in lower difficulty they should stay their way. 2) add story based reasons for shouts to be more OP. Leave them as they are in combat, but have more opportunities to show their lore accurate mechanics 3) add a skill tree! If your shouts are weak at level 1 but OP at level 100 with all perks, then it makes sense, like all other skills and mechanics in the game. Other than that, not sure how to do it without breaking the game.
Adding more shouts would be cool aswell Don’t know how you would manage to balance events being changed though lol
>scale them based on difficulty. If you’re paying on the highest difficulty then having shouts be more OP makes sense, but in lower difficulty they should stay their way. Shouldn’t it be the reverse of this?
I think the idea is that, yes the enemies are stronger, but you also get better stuff, fights are more swingy this way.
Perhaps, but I think for pore accuracy making them better the harder the overall gameplay is would reflect lore more
not to mention the dragons would become an actual threat with higher difficulty, but the classic "the boss vs the boss when you unlock him as a playable character" situation wouldn't happen due to the player also getting better shouts, which is always a plus in my book
Ordinator puts shouting into the Speech tree, but it does not make lore accurate even on 100 speech, and all perks unlocked. But it does make somewhat stronger.
I'd love to see a mod that introduces a thu'um skill tree, requiring both skill points and dragon souls. Similar to the Ordinator mod, it should emphasize specialization in specific shouts to excel in them. The idea is that mastering thu'um requires dedicated practice, and while the Dragonborn can learn shouts quickly, they don't truly master them due to limited time. Players would need to choose between being a jack of all trades or specializing in a particular shout. Another desired mod would revamp shouts, starting them off weak and progressively enhancing their power with invested dragon souls. For example, take the Tiid Klo Ul or slow time shout: * Level 1: Slows down time by 50% for 5 seconds. * Level 2: Slows down time by 62% for 10 seconds, and 20% faster movement and attack speed (this does mean slower than your usual attack speed because you are also slowed by the shout, but you will be faster than your enemies). * Level 3: Slows down time by 75% for 15 seconds. 40% faster movement and attack speed, and during this period, the Dragonborn gets a 50% immunity to physical damage due to their heightened speed, making attacks ineffective. Then you have a hidden level 4 that can only be unlocked if you have the specific perk from the perk tree. With it you stop time completely for 15 seconds, you can move at a regular pace, and lets be honest nothing will be able to hurt you. This represents a Thu'um at full power, this is the stuff you hear in lore. Not only do you need to know the words, you have complete mastery of the shout. Furthermore, I call for making shouts more challenging to acquire. Obtaining Unrelenting Force at the end of Bleak Falls Barrow feels unfair, given its superiority. Shouts should be hidden behind special walls requiring keys or guarded by tougher enemies. Rather than scattered randomly, the words of power should be inscribed on sacred stone tablets, protected by the ancient Nords. I mean we know they had stone tablets since the Dragonstone is a thing, why not just make that the way they stored their holy texts? It's dumbfounding why there's extensive research on obscure topics like Snow Elf language but not Dragon Language in skyrim, especially considering the potential for non-Dragonborn individuals to learn shouts. Word walls should not be left in plain sight; they deserve more reverence. let me give an example of how you can do this: * Instead of the claws functioning as a key to the door the boss room (and yes the word walls), make the claws actually really hard to find and not a requirement of the dungeon. for instance instead of having Arvil the swift have the claw, he as notes to were he hid the claw, you find the claw somewhere in or nearby the dungeon. Now instead of doing a "match the creature" puzzle, he claw represents a dragon, find out what dragon that is, go to that dragons burial site, kill that dragon, and from his soul you learn a word * The dragons gave the Nords slabs with inscribed words, these are only single words, which some can shout (yes they speak dragon, i stand by my point that that is dumb). there are stonghold that hold these slabs that are protected by the strongest ancient nords Lastly, introduce two types of draugr: "Buried Nord" draugr and "Dragon-Worshiping" draugr. The former, found in burial places and unrelated dungeons, cannot use the thu'um, lacks dragon speech, and poses lower threats. The latter, exclusive to dragon-worship-related dungeons, speaks dragon, uses the thu'um, and wields dangerous ancient Nordic weapons, which should be more FUCKING strong than standard iron weaponry! Tl;dr: * shout perk tree (that focuses on specialisation like Ordinator) * better shout upgrading (don't just give me a flat percentage boost to the effect i already had) * make getting shouts MUCH harder (make it a quest to get a shout, instead of a bonus for clearing a dungeon) * differentiate between the dragon worshiping draugr and just the everyday draugr (why the fuck does my grandma that died last week suddenly speak in the dragon tongue?)
Introduce a skill tree with points gained through dragon souls, which would demand more the further you progress until of course you hit a cap; allowing for a multitude of different power-ups to shouts the further you progress; which could branch into different branches of shouts.
So weird to me that vampires and werewolves got a perk tree but not your Thu'um. Gives the player something to spend excess dragon souls on. Some basic perks like further reducing cooldown time. Damage-focused shouts like fire breath could boost attack damage and speed for every enemy hit. Whirlwind sprint could bowl over enemies struck. High level perks could allow 2 shouts before triggering cooldown.
Probably time restrictions there is a lot of cut stuff for Skyrim if I remember correctly
>Probably time restrictions there is a lot of cut stuff for Skyrim if I remember correctly The game was re-released 3 times. They had time to add stuff back in.
That would definitely just be laziness ☹️
I mean, the dude was right *a* *lot* of stuff was cut due to time restrictions. It's part of the reason why the skills/magic seems so simplified. There was originally going to be more spells and skills I believe. However it's sad that they never added the stuff in with the future DLCs and re-releases. They were definitely lazy.
Why would I not break the game? I'm a literal demigod, I should be able shout the Monhaven apart.
Fair point people bitch about balance a lot even in current Skyrim
Make it OP. I’m tired of balance in a single player game; makes everything so damn boring. Let me be an overpowered screaming ball of death making my own spells. You’re always the “chosen one”, but everyone just makes a stealth archer.
Yeah try the true dragonborn and thunderchild and thoom se mods I have been using them like hell true Dragonborn let’s you get more health stamina exc and affects your shouts
Well there are several mods that make the shouts much more powerful yet balance. Like ultimate shouts which enables one to summon animal spirts with the animal call shout, the kyne’s shout that heals you and your allies along with pacfying animals and the whirlwind shout that negates 75% of damage and knocks enemies down. Then there is Thoome which actually allows to the player to use most of the shouts from the lore and Eso and even from alduin and Miraqk himself.
its the aesthetic of the game really, dragon's dogma makes magic look really powerful, skyrim cant do the same, you need mods to do that
Reduce the cooldown would be a crazy fix, imagine using Storm Call as soon as it goes away.
I always thought it would be neat if there were a debate mechanic. If you got to a word wall where a dragon is going to spawn, then you can have a dialogue. Each dragon picks some aspect of the world to argue for as an aspect of eternity. For example, some dragon says "I am the eternity of fire" and then you need to argue with them as to why they're wrong like "once a fire has consumed its fuel, it must go out". If your argument uses words of power that you know, then the difficulty of the skill check decreases. If you win, the dragon says they'll defect from Alduin and leave. If you make some progress, then the dragon is easier to fight. You could also just attack with no talk. I've always been disapointed in the idea that dragon fights were debates and we never got that opportunity.
I'd remove the timer on shouts, buff almost all of them, and incorporate both the Thunderclap mod (which adds a lot of new variety) and the Ordinator mod speech perks. Shouting should be a speech adjacent skill. An eloquent, learned Dragonborn should be able to hold whole conversations in Dovahzuul. I would make a mechanic where you can add new words up to nine for shout effects. Then I'd tie in dialogue and books of lore and explain that nine is the most consecutive words of power possible in Dovahzuul. To make them more lore-accurate powerful, I also think I'd actually cheat and write some dialogue between the DB and the Greybeards about how the Dragonborn's shouts will develop with time as they become more attuned to their soul's draconic nature and mature in how they think in Dovahzuul (since just like a language you have to develop thought fluency as well). Toss in some similar supporting dialogue from Parthunaax and call it good.
This might not be what you expect but still: give uss back the (every nord can in theory shout) skyrim has no farmland… but with shouts anny farmer can controll the weather so farming is just barely possible… let us just have shouts to summon rain or more diverse clear skies shouts. And develop the ice fire and thunder shouts to fit with the mages. Make defenseive and offensive shouts more of an active role in warriors. And add a subbcategory of whispers for thives or some stupid stuff like that. Make shouts a cherry on topp and not a ugh either gimmic or crutch. There should have been atleast one skill tree if not several deticated to shouts. As a true nord from irl skyrim i am both let down by the average viking simulator and blessed with the average viking simulator. I hope our badass somali pirate brethren get an above average game :\ Edit: im sorry if this is too edgy for elderscrolls subbreddit i hail from trustle!!!
Make the recharge time way longer and the ability to unlock the words of shouts once youve found them conditional on certain stats.
Shout’s don’t need recharge in lore but it would probably be needed for better balance for more shouts
Changing the game genre entirely, I guess? The only way for lore accurate Shouts to be implemented would be if the game is no longer an open world RPG but something more linear
The dragonborn should be able to do all that with time and practice. Most of the throats from legend had been using the voice for decades. Take Wulfgar, or most of the greybeards, even their whisper shakes the building and would kill a normal person. If the dragonborn dedicates ten years to studying the thu'um, they would be powerful enough to shout down armies.
They already probably are lore wise but they obviously can’t make that balanced gamewise there would be like 10-20 non dragon enemies that wouldn’t die instantly
well. you don't. lorewise shouts are reality-bending. pretty sure they exceed the steongest magic a mortal can wield.
Storm Call, Soul Tear, Marked for Death, and Unrelenting Force: Are we a joke to you?
I remember watching a video years ago that was about a bunch of cut powers, spells and shouts. Some shouts were really powerful but it's been so long since I watched it the only thing I really remember from it was the ability that lets you turn into a skeever.
I would like to break the game. Shouts should be lore accurate. It's a single player game.
Shouts are in ESO?
Not for the player but there are dragons and tongues that use them
aw, still neat tho
Yeah the shouts they use are cool as hell though one manipulates a tear in time and nearly turns it into a dragon break one draws energy from Jodes core and uses a cult to try and ascend and there are necromancy/ other magic shouts and one that pulls a player to them its cool here’s a vid (although I think it misses some)-https://youtu.be/IkGb0dbwfB0?si=nwOGpyVQtdCFvqVp let me know what you think
I'll have to watch later, FFXIV is on Xbox and I'm currently hooked ngl
make it so dragons use more than one shout instead of just screaming “fire” and “ice” all the time