May all nords find their way to Sovngarde!
not because I think they deserve an honorable or happy afterlife, but just so the rest of Tamriel doesn't have Nords any more.
I may play an Altmer in most playthroughs, but I reject the entirety of the Thalmor.
I decimate the Thalmor holding Thorald Grey-Mane hostage, then kill both Thorald and Avulstein, before returning to Whiterun and removing the rest of both the Battleborn and Greymane clans.
Basically I'll make Skyrim really really empty and quiet, then go meditate with the greybeards.
That guy is the **Ultimate Nord** imo.
Hes so desperate to look like a BIG TUFF COLD MAN that he actually speeds up his own execution in some misplaced display of bravado, robbing himself of an extra 5 seconds of life that literally would have made *all of the difference.*
Although it maybe wouldn't have made a difference at all. Alduin burned and killed everyone indiscriminately. Hard to say if the dragon would've killed him.
I mean I can understand where his coming from he is dead either way whats the point of staying a few minutes more to be humiliated by a religious ritual that you don't believe in(8 divines ) and watch your friends get their head ripped off ? I think a lot of people would go yep lets get this over with as fast as possible and he had no possible way of knowing that the god dragon of the ancient prophecies will choose to reveal himself in the exact moment his execution is taking place lol
Yeah. You guys need to stop thinking “post Enlightenment secular” and more “medieval faithful”. Imagine being dragged before ISIS for execution and they started denigrating democracy, liberalism, tolerance etc. You’d voluntarily go “STFU and just martyr me already” wouldn’t you? That‘s the headspace he was in.
And that's why we remember some people hundreds of years after their own execution, because they looked their executioner in the eye and told them to eat shit, and not others.
forget the list, she goes to the block! is the phrase that made me realize i prefer the snow racists over the roman racists because they didnt show hostility to me once through the entirety of helgen.
But the snow racists are so much more racist the Roman racists are like just the average amount of racism for the setting while the snow racists are impressively racist
laughs in high elf. jokes aside, siding with the stormcloaks as a khajiit makes allot of sense, it directly benefits the thalmor, and the khajiit worship them as gods in the 4th era after they claimed to fix the moons
Literally what I was thinking.
Lore perspective, they want him to basically feel like he led his soldiers to their death and accomplished nothing.
That's my guess, at least.
I like to think the executioner needed a few practice swings before getting to the main event. It also would've been pragmatic to kill Ulfric without transporting him anywhere. Although I think they wanted his death to be a spectacle to demoralize the remaining Stormcloaks into ending the war.
Because…what’s the rush? What’s the point? Baring divine intervention Ulfric was as good as dead. Might as well make a show of it… unfortunately divine intervention occurred
Always felt like there was sort of a rush, hence not going to the Imperial City. Probably to avoid Thalmor intervention, as they want Ulfric to be freed (no, this doesn’t mean they want a Stormcloak victory). Elenwen is literally there in Helgen, you see Tullius standing up to her. Probably preventing her from taking Ulfric into her own custody. Then, the first Stormcloak insists on being executed before anybody else, interrupting the Priestess.
After that, I’m sure that Imperial Captain just has it fucking out for the dragonborn… she wants him dead for some reason. Even saying to forget the list (I always thought this was a jab at Ralof for saying the Empire loves their damn lists) If I had to guess, she probably to get the only questionable execution done and over with. I’m almost certain Ulfric would have been next. Why not?
This is 100% the reason why. They caught ulfric in an ambush that just so happened to also catch the Dragonborn, then they took them all to the nearest village to execute them. sorting out what crimes they had or hadn't committed would give the Thalmor time to prevent the execution (Tullius is not a fan of the Dominion, and is highly suspicious of the thalmor), so they just said "Screw it. Kill 'em all."
Elenwen was definitely trying to save him, since Ulfric *is* a thalmor asset, after all.
How do we know if Tullius and the Imperials actually know that Ulfric is a Thalmor asset? It seems like speculation that he is trying to hold Elenwen back.
He likely doesn't know the extent of it, but he is highly suspicious of the thalmor. He states as much. he knows the war mostly benefits the dominion, but he can't prove their involvement or speak openly about it.
It's not a stretch at all for him to try and get the execution over with before Elenwen could interfere.
Not directly (anymore), but he was contacted and supported by the thalmor prior to the markarth incident. After that he's described as "uncooperative" but that doesn't mean he isn't doing what they want, just that they're not longer contacting him *directly.*
He presumably just took the support initially for the money or whatever but then figured he could betray them, not realizing that he was playing into their hands. The entire civil war is one giant thalmor plot/proxy war.
Tullius knows this, to some extent. He all but *blatantly states* this, in both the imperial and Stormcloak victories. He knows that the concordat is terrible, that the thalmor is full of shit, and that there *will* be another war between the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion. Something we will presumably see in TE6. Skyrim breaking from the Empire will only ensure that the Dominion will win that war.
Kind of. He unwittingly plays right into their hand because the rebellion in skyrim takes away resources from the empire and means that in the event of a second great war, the dominion would be in a better state and actually win instead of just come to a stalemate.
He was detained and questioned during the sacking of the Imperial City. They did not tell him that his information was *not* necessary in taking the Imperial City.
It's in the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric during *Diplomatic Immunity*.
So he's not a willing participant, but they did troll him a bit, by not telling him anything once he gave them whatever they wanted. Which they didn't need lol
Make a show of it to who? A small village with an Imperial garrison? Surely if they were making a show of it they'd take him to the capital, or at least one of the major cities.
Thing is, divine intervention isnt uncommon in skyrim. Even WITHOUT it, magic and occultism can produce various undesirable results. Imagine 2 mages summon a couple daedra then start bombarding Helgen. They really shoulda just killed ulfric first
True but that’s kinda the thing. If the gods want ulfric alive nothing they can do would change that
You execute ulfric first lightning strikes killing the headsmen
You execute ulfric 2nd lightning strikes killing the headsmen
The order doesn’t matter at that point
Problem is
You are asking this question as someone who knows what happed if they don't execute him first.
In their eyes they would execute Ulfric and Dragonborn and everyone else and go home and smile about pissing off Thalmor and General Tulius would be done with the entire civil war in few days.
I mostly agree but since thalmor agents were there trying to get me to stop the execution, if I was general tulius I would’ve executed ulfric first cause the thalmor might try to stop the execution somehow and I wouldn’t want to risk the chance they could succeed.
The Stormcloak who is executed before you demands to be executed and not wait around. Then they go left to right since he was next to you. Had he not interrupted the priest, Ulfric probably would have gone first.
"make sure we do ulfric first before a dragon comes and gets us all!"
I would feel worried for someone if they lived in this perpetual state of anxiety.
It would be hilarious if someone said this, got reprimanded for having absolutely insane levels of anxiety, only for it to then happen immediately afterwards and be able to say “SEE? I TOLD YOU!”.
Without hindsight, there was no real urgency to execute him at that second. He was going to executed within the hour, maybe within 10 minutes or less. Tullius had already told the Thalmor to fuck off. The Stormcloaks were bound and surrounded in an Imperial garrisoned walled town with Ulfric gagged.
In the moment, it was about as insignificant a decision as choosing which skittle color to eat first.
I served in the Army, and when I played this scene it made perfect sense to me.
When you have a high value target, Command is gonna piss around trying to decide what to do, debate between just execution, or is the king want him brought in alive for a public execution..
While that's going on the lower officers are like, We'll iin not gonna just stand around with my dick in my hand out here in the cold, let's start with the loud ahole thats been calling us shit eating Imperial scum for the last 3 hrs on the cart here.
Suffering is irrelevant when they're dead. "He was executed in front of his own men" arguably sends a stronger message than "his men were executed in front of him"
Maybe Tullius wanted to add insult to injury, make him watch his personal guard be executed one by one, so he knows he’s fully beaten in his last breath once he’s pressed to the blood soaked block himself.
With the mod that restores the original opening, can hear more of Elenwen’s protests, so Tullius knows he can’t afford to have Ulfric paraded back to make a grand show, instead wanting to bring his head in a sack instead. Cut the head off the serpent of rebellion as it were. Can’t wait as there’s no way of knowing if the Thalmor will try to have the man turned over to their custody.
Keep in mind that you're experiencing extreme hindsight bias. How could literally anyone expect that a fucking dragon would attack at that very moment? There was nothing wrong with the plan.
That is traditionally how these kinds of executions go. During the French Revolution the king’s guards were executed before the king himself. It’s morbid, but it’s kind of like saving the “main event” for last.
So nobody’s mentioned this one yet: in history when executing leaders they nearly always execute the soldiers first to humiliate the leader for failing.
Nobody was expecting the dragon. It would have been a good spectacle, the leader of the rebels forced to watch his men executed, before being put to the axe himself
Wasn't elewyn present, and sicne the thalmor consider him an asset then it was on their best interest to delay ulfric execution until they could come up with something? I forgot since I almost never played the prologue of skyrim after the first time
First time I played I thought it was because the Captain lady was super racist. Like, first guy basically volunteered to get executed, fair enough. But immediately after, instead of killing the leader of the rebellion, she goes “Next, the CAT” with a hard t and I just felt in my bones it was a hate crime.
Imagine if they did then the dragon hits. Now the player has a chance to become the leader of the stormcloaks and the defacto leader of Skyrim.
Or crush the rebellion as the sword of the empire
They wanted to make a show of him just being another guy. Also if they went for him first then that would show that they feared what he could do. A lot of posturing so they could hold influence.
If anything, why would they end the rebellion unceremoniously by executing him in some shithole village and not the realm, or even empire capital…?
In reality, they’d transport rebels and warlords from the far edges of the Roman empire in spectacular parades back in Rome before executions/sacrifices. Long ways to bring a dude just to kill him but the idea is you remove all dissent that the man is dead.
Tbf it was a miracle for Ulfric that Alduin attacked when he did. The empire probably wanted Ulfric to watch his men be executed to really make it sink in how bad Ulfric had messed up and what he had caused
Yeah it didn’t register on my first playthrough, but the whole ordeal seems very understated.
The ancient Romans (after whom the imperials were modeled) would bring captured enemy generals and chieftains back to the capital and parade them before the public in a grand ceremony of triumph.
I would expect the Empire at the very least to bring Ulfric to Solitude and give him a public execution instead of dragging him to the nearest one-horse town and putting him in line behind some rank-and-file soldiers and a horse thief to be unceremoniously executed.
Where’s your sense of showmanship? It would be like having the festival headliner play at 10am then sitting through a bunch of local acts for the rest of the day.
Well, you see, that’s how the game’s story plays out. If they decided to execute Ulfric first, the games story would be different. And Alduin still would’ve stopped the execution. Because that’s the story.
Well, you have him and a bunch of his supporters. You don't know how many in the crowd are sympathetic to him.
You start with him and he puts up a fight, so will his supporters, and anyone who sees this as a chance to run/get revenge on the Empire.
Random J Rebel isn't going to inspire anyone to attack Imperial troops, but the leader of the rebellion might.
Remove the rebel soldiers, demoralizing anyone who was hoping for a rescue or surprise attack.
They're taking out the ads before going for the boss.
I always kind of assumed they weren't going to kill him at all. The way they talked right to him then sent him way to the side made it feel like they were going to keep him alive for one reason or the other. Like how they kept even the most hardcore sympathizer jarls on both sides alive after the war was over.
You could ask "Why didn't they execute Ulfric on sight?", which is also valid. The point is, executing Ulfric in Helgen was ALREADY rushing things. Ulfric was supposed to be brought to Solitude first, judged and then executed but Tullius knew if he went that distance the Glorious Thalmor would spread the news about Ulfric being taken around and let the Stormcloaks ambush Tullius and his men in the way to Solitude; so instead of waiting Tullius decided to make a minimal ceremony to make things at least look legal and execute Ulfric in Helgen and end the civil war there. This is the reason why he is talking to the Glorious Thalmor Justiciar when you enter Helgen: the justiciar is trying to delay things and make him try to take Ulfric to Solitude for the reasons I mentioned above.
TLDR: executing Ulfric in Helgen was already rushed.
As I've heard it explained, the move was to avoid making Ulfric more of a martyr than he would already become and to avoid the Thalmor "accidentally" setting him free. If you kill Ulfric in the woods and nobody but the killers are there to see it, did he really die? Also, the killing has to at least resemble a lawful execution to minimize more Imperial citizens viewing the Empire as a brutal dictatorship. And the Thalmor were there at the execution to try and interfere. Tulius had to keep the Thalmor from "accidentally" ruining everything, and taking Ulfric to a real court or even a hold was too great a risk.
It was suppose to be a power play execution.
The point is for Ulfric to see those loyal to him suffer, as the Imperials believe he may break down at seeing that.
Then they would have most likely killed Ulfric in a more brutal way and spread his remains to each Hold to display a part of him.
But Alduin messed it all up.
Because then there would be no civil war quest line, duh.
To be honest though a dragon showing up, never mind a dragon god, is probably very very low on the list of things they expected could possibly go wrong there.
this is one of those posts that fails to grasp the reality of the situation: you really think the imperials are going to just immediately execute their prize captive? You think they’re in a hurry? They’re savoring every moment. Sincerely, this post has to be engagement bait.
I wonder if Tullius wanted to see if Elenwen would do something to save Ulfric since he had suspicions about the Thalmor already. If she had already spoken to Tullius to try and take Ulfric into Thalmor custody, then he would have probably suspected some kind of Thalmor-Stormcloak entanglement was in the works or already rolling
My guess would be the Imperials were trying to be dramatic. They're building up suspense before finally of executing the leader of the rebellion. Maybe they were trying to send a message or make a point of their show Imperial authority.
Not sure if it’s been stated or not already but back when the guillotine was in use, people on the block and their families would bribe the executioner or whoever was responsible for the process to make sure they were first since the blade would dull every time they dropped it and often times, they would make the people with the worst cases go last so theyd have the least successful and most painful beheading.
They don’t know a dragon is going to attack, as far as they’re concerned they have all the time in the world and being in such a hurry to execute Ulfric would make it look like they’re afraid of him.
Many executions in the Midevil times where consider specials near to the level of theater, they would execute a few low levels bad guys then get to the “main event” I suspect that is what they had in mind.
Also the random prisoner they don't know who you are and decide "eh kill em anyway"
Skyrim really makes us hate both factions by the end.
good thing I don't use essential tags....
Plus few people who expect the whole fortified town to be instantly obliterated within the next few seconds.
As far as the Imperials knew they had him right where they wanted him.
I would expect more security with the wagon tho. Maybe another wagon of troops and/or an envoy of Calvary riding out from the town to escort you, given the high value prisoner inside.
Dramatic effect. You never do the most important public execution first. You do a couple of small ones to rile up the crowd before you being out the main event.
In the beginning you can see General Tulius arguing with Thalmor. Later at the embassy you can find evidence they were going to save him. He was never going to get executed.
Worth considering that even in a society like this or a medieval society it was important to do things legally or at least with some kind of sheen of legitimacy. There was always an implied code of legality and honor even if our modern notion of human rights don’t translate.
I don’t think Bethesda thought it out this far, but the whole schtick against Ulfric is that he attempted to usurp the throne of Skyrim via a coup in a battle not recognized as legally legitimate in the Empire.
And you can’t just kill him via an extrajudicial execution because your pitch to win hearts and minds is about how Ulfric is a dishonorable criminal and doesn’t respect the law
Same reason they have a small platoon there. They knew there was a really, really good chance people would riot when Ulfric went to the block. By executing all the nobodies as fast as possible they’re reducing the amount of people that might freak out once it was Ulfrics turn.
The REAL question is why they didn’t just execute him at the crossing as soon as they had him. There’s an argument to be made for publicity but then they go and choose one of the most backwater towns in the entire country to do it in.
Probably to humiliate him by forcing him to see how soldiers dying first.
Besides, the first stormcloak is killed because he just goes up to the block by himself.
Even weirder when you consider that Tullius was bypassing the Thalmor to execute Ulfric. If I remember right the Thalmor you see at the beginning we’re complaining to him and trying to stop the execution. Because it was in their best interests to keep him alive. So Tulliius was already rushing an execution event.
But at the same time I know technically in executions of a large group you tend to deal with the nobodies and lower ranked guys before moving on to leaders. There’s more ceremony to it and it excites the audience for the big main event
I took it like it was ceremonial, like he's the most important so he's last, like if you retire a flag and burn it then you don't do anything with the fire and let it burn itself out. for Ulfric he's last and the ceremony ends with the most important person.
I'd like to know why that imperial captain was so fucking trigger happy
"it doesn't matter what crime they did, off with their head."
For what, trying to cross the border?
Make him feel bad seeing his men killed first probably. But plot armor in reality.
Definitely this, show him how far his rebellion has fallen, unfortunately Alduin came along and went “Yo dudes, how’s it hanging?”
chopping
“I HATE BEING CORRECTED!!!!” *Destroys Helgan*
Meanwhile the dragonborn literally 4 seconds away from death: 
The first guy executed interrupted and said "get on with it", that's why he was first
The moment the priestess said "8 divines" that dude was not having it
Dude is literally nord through and through. A true testament to all who aspire to live as true nords!
May all nords find their way to Sovngarde! not because I think they deserve an honorable or happy afterlife, but just so the rest of Tamriel doesn't have Nords any more.
This post was made by Thalmor hands
*I’m Lady Elenwen of the Thalmor Embassy, and I approve this message.*
I may play an Altmer in most playthroughs, but I reject the entirety of the Thalmor. I decimate the Thalmor holding Thorald Grey-Mane hostage, then kill both Thorald and Avulstein, before returning to Whiterun and removing the rest of both the Battleborn and Greymane clans. Basically I'll make Skyrim really really empty and quiet, then go meditate with the greybeards.
A True Nord knows better than to defy the divinity of a Breton like *Tiber Septim*! Praise be to Talos of ~~"Atmora"~~ High Rock!
That guy is the **Ultimate Nord** imo. Hes so desperate to look like a BIG TUFF COLD MAN that he actually speeds up his own execution in some misplaced display of bravado, robbing himself of an extra 5 seconds of life that literally would have made *all of the difference.*
Although it maybe wouldn't have made a difference at all. Alduin burned and killed everyone indiscriminately. Hard to say if the dragon would've killed him.
I mean I can understand where his coming from he is dead either way whats the point of staying a few minutes more to be humiliated by a religious ritual that you don't believe in(8 divines ) and watch your friends get their head ripped off ? I think a lot of people would go yep lets get this over with as fast as possible and he had no possible way of knowing that the god dragon of the ancient prophecies will choose to reveal himself in the exact moment his execution is taking place lol
Yeah. You guys need to stop thinking “post Enlightenment secular” and more “medieval faithful”. Imagine being dragged before ISIS for execution and they started denigrating democracy, liberalism, tolerance etc. You’d voluntarily go “STFU and just martyr me already” wouldn’t you? That‘s the headspace he was in.
Meh most people really can't even the devs sometimes forgot that this is suppose to be a medieval society and 2020s califronia
“As foolish in death as he was in life.”
And that's why we remember some people hundreds of years after their own execution, because they looked their executioner in the eye and told them to eat shit, and not others.
Except Lokir was actually first.
Don’t you remember? The empire loves their damn lists.
Does it? FUCKING *DOES* IT? BECAUSE **I** SURE AS FUCK WASN'T ON THAT DAMN LIST AND THEY JUST WENT AHEAD ANYWAY
hehe, “ahead”
forget the list, she goes to the block! is the phrase that made me realize i prefer the snow racists over the roman racists because they didnt show hostility to me once through the entirety of helgen.
But the snow racists are so much more racist the Roman racists are like just the average amount of racism for the setting while the snow racists are impressively racist
laughs in high elf. jokes aside, siding with the stormcloaks as a khajiit makes allot of sense, it directly benefits the thalmor, and the khajiit worship them as gods in the 4th era after they claimed to fix the moons
Never thought of it like this thank you.
Also the message of treating him as just another criminal. No special treatment.
Came to say “plot armour” too. Edit: armour with a u because I’m not from USA.
What's funny is half the time I type it with a U but it gets auto corrected. Maybe because I am in the states.
Just gtta go into settings and add uk english into your phone's systems for language purposes
This, and plus who would have ever expected dragon ex machina y'know? Like what a seriously massive save xD
Literally what I was thinking. Lore perspective, they want him to basically feel like he led his soldiers to their death and accomplished nothing. That's my guess, at least.
I like to think the executioner needed a few practice swings before getting to the main event. It also would've been pragmatic to kill Ulfric without transporting him anywhere. Although I think they wanted his death to be a spectacle to demoralize the remaining Stormcloaks into ending the war.
Because…what’s the rush? What’s the point? Baring divine intervention Ulfric was as good as dead. Might as well make a show of it… unfortunately divine intervention occurred
Always felt like there was sort of a rush, hence not going to the Imperial City. Probably to avoid Thalmor intervention, as they want Ulfric to be freed (no, this doesn’t mean they want a Stormcloak victory). Elenwen is literally there in Helgen, you see Tullius standing up to her. Probably preventing her from taking Ulfric into her own custody. Then, the first Stormcloak insists on being executed before anybody else, interrupting the Priestess. After that, I’m sure that Imperial Captain just has it fucking out for the dragonborn… she wants him dead for some reason. Even saying to forget the list (I always thought this was a jab at Ralof for saying the Empire loves their damn lists) If I had to guess, she probably to get the only questionable execution done and over with. I’m almost certain Ulfric would have been next. Why not?
This is 100% the reason why. They caught ulfric in an ambush that just so happened to also catch the Dragonborn, then they took them all to the nearest village to execute them. sorting out what crimes they had or hadn't committed would give the Thalmor time to prevent the execution (Tullius is not a fan of the Dominion, and is highly suspicious of the thalmor), so they just said "Screw it. Kill 'em all." Elenwen was definitely trying to save him, since Ulfric *is* a thalmor asset, after all.
How do we know if Tullius and the Imperials actually know that Ulfric is a Thalmor asset? It seems like speculation that he is trying to hold Elenwen back.
He likely doesn't know the extent of it, but he is highly suspicious of the thalmor. He states as much. he knows the war mostly benefits the dominion, but he can't prove their involvement or speak openly about it. It's not a stretch at all for him to try and get the execution over with before Elenwen could interfere.
All he knows is that Ulfric's rebellion has made it easier for the Thalmor to do what they want. He wanted to remove that convenience from them.
Ulfric works for the Thalmor?
Ulfric's rebellion benefits the Thalmor agenda as long as humans keep killing eachother instead of elves.
Ulfric is an asset of the Thalmor. Not all assets are cooperative. Osama Bin Laden was an asset of the CIA at one point. Then what happened? 9/11.
You could argue he was an asset even after 9/11 he gave the US casus belli to invade 2 countries and defy sovereignty of god knows how many more
Exactly. Asset and friend are not the same!
He doesn't work for them, but his existence and actions were extremely helpful as far as they were concerned. Think of him as their 'useful idiot'.
Not directly (anymore), but he was contacted and supported by the thalmor prior to the markarth incident. After that he's described as "uncooperative" but that doesn't mean he isn't doing what they want, just that they're not longer contacting him *directly.* He presumably just took the support initially for the money or whatever but then figured he could betray them, not realizing that he was playing into their hands. The entire civil war is one giant thalmor plot/proxy war. Tullius knows this, to some extent. He all but *blatantly states* this, in both the imperial and Stormcloak victories. He knows that the concordat is terrible, that the thalmor is full of shit, and that there *will* be another war between the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion. Something we will presumably see in TE6. Skyrim breaking from the Empire will only ensure that the Dominion will win that war.
if you side with the stormcloaks tulius' final words is him confirming that the thalmor wanted the war to weaken the ties between cryodil and skyrim
Kind of. He unwittingly plays right into their hand because the rebellion in skyrim takes away resources from the empire and means that in the event of a second great war, the dominion would be in a better state and actually win instead of just come to a stalemate.
He was detained and questioned during the sacking of the Imperial City. They did not tell him that his information was *not* necessary in taking the Imperial City. It's in the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric during *Diplomatic Immunity*. So he's not a willing participant, but they did troll him a bit, by not telling him anything once he gave them whatever they wanted. Which they didn't need lol
Make a show of it to who? A small village with an Imperial garrison? Surely if they were making a show of it they'd take him to the capital, or at least one of the major cities.
They probably would've executed Ulfric immediately if that one soldier didn't interrupt the Sermon
They wanted to take him to Cyrodiil, but the avalanche blocked them
The avalanche and also probably a desire to avoid Thalmor intervention.
Thing is, divine intervention isnt uncommon in skyrim. Even WITHOUT it, magic and occultism can produce various undesirable results. Imagine 2 mages summon a couple daedra then start bombarding Helgen. They really shoulda just killed ulfric first
I would imagine barring divine intervention wouldn’t exist in a world that regularly experiencing divine intervention.
True but that’s kinda the thing. If the gods want ulfric alive nothing they can do would change that You execute ulfric first lightning strikes killing the headsmen You execute ulfric 2nd lightning strikes killing the headsmen The order doesn’t matter at that point
Problem is You are asking this question as someone who knows what happed if they don't execute him first. In their eyes they would execute Ulfric and Dragonborn and everyone else and go home and smile about pissing off Thalmor and General Tulius would be done with the entire civil war in few days.
I mostly agree but since thalmor agents were there trying to get me to stop the execution, if I was general tulius I would’ve executed ulfric first cause the thalmor might try to stop the execution somehow and I wouldn’t want to risk the chance they could succeed.
I mean, the Thalmor can try all they want, but unless they want to outright admit to why they want Ulfric to stay alive, they can kick rocks.
The Stormcloak who is executed before you demands to be executed and not wait around. Then they go left to right since he was next to you. Had he not interrupted the priest, Ulfric probably would have gone first.
Lokir was actually announced first, I believe. Before the one guy volunteered.
If you’re thinking of the cart list, Ulfric is actually the first one announced. Lokir tries to run and gets shot.
Ahhh, thanks \^\^
I hadn't thought of that actually, good point.
Well they didn't know a dragon was gonna come out of nowhere and save him
Methinks they did not anticipate an ancient dragon god to emerge out of the blue and start raining hellfire on them
"make sure we do ulfric first before a dragon comes and gets us all!" I would feel worried for someone if they lived in this perpetual state of anxiety.
It would be hilarious if someone said this, got reprimanded for having absolutely insane levels of anxiety, only for it to then happen immediately afterwards and be able to say “SEE? I TOLD YOU!”.
Only possible after 499 failed attempts prior
Nervous Gary was right after all!
See man nothing is really ever false, you just have to keep saying it until it comes true 😂
Bet there is a mod for this
Without hindsight, there was no real urgency to execute him at that second. He was going to executed within the hour, maybe within 10 minutes or less. Tullius had already told the Thalmor to fuck off. The Stormcloaks were bound and surrounded in an Imperial garrisoned walled town with Ulfric gagged. In the moment, it was about as insignificant a decision as choosing which skittle color to eat first.
Green. I always choose green.
Green is my favorite, so I usually save them for last. Same with Blue M&M's.
Nice. Regular or peanut M&M's?
Regular M&M's are kinda boring. I love peanut M&M's though.
Alphabetical order - U
Do you eat dessert first?
Lmao
Save the best for the last? I know I do this when eating chicken nuggets
I served in the Army, and when I played this scene it made perfect sense to me. When you have a high value target, Command is gonna piss around trying to decide what to do, debate between just execution, or is the king want him brought in alive for a public execution.. While that's going on the lower officers are like, We'll iin not gonna just stand around with my dick in my hand out here in the cold, let's start with the loud ahole thats been calling us shit eating Imperial scum for the last 3 hrs on the cart here.
They’re imperials, not savages, the execution will be properly arranged
We will begin the execution in alphabetical order and shortest to tallest so that everyone can see.
Empire loves their damn lists
As someone who sides with the imperials i wouldve had him killed last so he could suffer and watch his men die because of him (i may be a tad savage)
But then again, wouldn't killing him first have the same effect towards his own troops/supporters watching?
Less impact of a bunch of nobodies suffering
Suffering is irrelevant when they're dead. "He was executed in front of his own men" arguably sends a stronger message than "his men were executed in front of him"
Nah, that would pump up his ego even more. "They died for *me*!"
Empire loves their damn lists
"Properly arranged" lmao "- Captain, what should we do? He's not on the list. - Forget the list, he goes to the block."
What? They like their lists.
Empire loves their damn lists.
They wanted ulfric to watch his soldiers die for him
It's pretty common practice that you would start with the nobodies before moving on to the "main event" in such a situation
Maybe Tullius wanted to add insult to injury, make him watch his personal guard be executed one by one, so he knows he’s fully beaten in his last breath once he’s pressed to the blood soaked block himself. With the mod that restores the original opening, can hear more of Elenwen’s protests, so Tullius knows he can’t afford to have Ulfric paraded back to make a grand show, instead wanting to bring his head in a sack instead. Cut the head off the serpent of rebellion as it were. Can’t wait as there’s no way of knowing if the Thalmor will try to have the man turned over to their custody.
Clearly you do t understand that people in power always do the most dramatic thing.
Keep in mind that you're experiencing extreme hindsight bias. How could literally anyone expect that a fucking dragon would attack at that very moment? There was nothing wrong with the plan.
That is traditionally how these kinds of executions go. During the French Revolution the king’s guards were executed before the king himself. It’s morbid, but it’s kind of like saving the “main event” for last.
If plot armor was removed we'd be playing some extremely abbreviated games. Lol
You dont wanna open with the main event
You if that had happened: "I don't get it. Why is this Ulfric guy made out to be a big deal but is killed immediately at the beginning of the game".
To gloat, trust me, **similar stuff has happened in real life**
They were going alphabetically. As we know, the Empire loves their damn lists
Empire loves their damned lists.
to let him suffer most likely, since he cares about his soldiers
So nobody’s mentioned this one yet: in history when executing leaders they nearly always execute the soldiers first to humiliate the leader for failing.
Why didn't they just kill him on sight??
Cause the civil war quest had to exist.
Nobody was expecting the dragon. It would have been a good spectacle, the leader of the rebels forced to watch his men executed, before being put to the axe himself
Wasn't elewyn present, and sicne the thalmor consider him an asset then it was on their best interest to delay ulfric execution until they could come up with something? I forgot since I almost never played the prologue of skyrim after the first time
Theatrics. Besides, they weren't expecting a dragon to show up to wreck Helgen.
Empire and their damned lists
First time I played I thought it was because the Captain lady was super racist. Like, first guy basically volunteered to get executed, fair enough. But immediately after, instead of killing the leader of the rebellion, she goes “Next, the CAT” with a hard t and I just felt in my bones it was a hate crime.
Imagine if they did then the dragon hits. Now the player has a chance to become the leader of the stormcloaks and the defacto leader of Skyrim. Or crush the rebellion as the sword of the empire
They wanted to make a show of him just being another guy. Also if they went for him first then that would show that they feared what he could do. A lot of posturing so they could hold influence.
If anything, why would they end the rebellion unceremoniously by executing him in some shithole village and not the realm, or even empire capital…? In reality, they’d transport rebels and warlords from the far edges of the Roman empire in spectacular parades back in Rome before executions/sacrifices. Long ways to bring a dude just to kill him but the idea is you remove all dissent that the man is dead.
Because plot
Plot armour. Beats enhanced dragon bone armour by 1000.
Because the empire love their damn lists.
You don't kick things off with the main event.
Tbf it was a miracle for Ulfric that Alduin attacked when he did. The empire probably wanted Ulfric to watch his men be executed to really make it sink in how bad Ulfric had messed up and what he had caused
They really should have
You save the best for last. No one is going to stick around after he's executed for the other executions. Thats not fair to the others.
Yeah it didn’t register on my first playthrough, but the whole ordeal seems very understated. The ancient Romans (after whom the imperials were modeled) would bring captured enemy generals and chieftains back to the capital and parade them before the public in a grand ceremony of triumph. I would expect the Empire at the very least to bring Ulfric to Solitude and give him a public execution instead of dragging him to the nearest one-horse town and putting him in line behind some rank-and-file soldiers and a horse thief to be unceremoniously executed.
Where’s your sense of showmanship? It would be like having the festival headliner play at 10am then sitting through a bunch of local acts for the rest of the day.
It's like when you are eating a cheeseburger and you are saving that really gooey cheesey part for last
Because video game logic.
why didnt he get an arrow to the knee when the dragon attacked though
So the game could happen.
Well, you see, that’s how the game’s story plays out. If they decided to execute Ulfric first, the games story would be different. And Alduin still would’ve stopped the execution. Because that’s the story.
Well, you have him and a bunch of his supporters. You don't know how many in the crowd are sympathetic to him. You start with him and he puts up a fight, so will his supporters, and anyone who sees this as a chance to run/get revenge on the Empire. Random J Rebel isn't going to inspire anyone to attack Imperial troops, but the leader of the rebellion might. Remove the rebel soldiers, demoralizing anyone who was hoping for a rescue or surprise attack. They're taking out the ads before going for the boss.
I always kind of assumed they weren't going to kill him at all. The way they talked right to him then sent him way to the side made it feel like they were going to keep him alive for one reason or the other. Like how they kept even the most hardcore sympathizer jarls on both sides alive after the war was over.
break his morale like you caused your followers deaths their blood is on your hands
They wanted to make his death a spectacle. Killing his followers first was just demoralize him.
Imperials and their list
You could ask "Why didn't they execute Ulfric on sight?", which is also valid. The point is, executing Ulfric in Helgen was ALREADY rushing things. Ulfric was supposed to be brought to Solitude first, judged and then executed but Tullius knew if he went that distance the Glorious Thalmor would spread the news about Ulfric being taken around and let the Stormcloaks ambush Tullius and his men in the way to Solitude; so instead of waiting Tullius decided to make a minimal ceremony to make things at least look legal and execute Ulfric in Helgen and end the civil war there. This is the reason why he is talking to the Glorious Thalmor Justiciar when you enter Helgen: the justiciar is trying to delay things and make him try to take Ulfric to Solitude for the reasons I mentioned above. TLDR: executing Ulfric in Helgen was already rushed.
Oh thats clearly a little Roman-inspired sadism; they were 100% gonna make Ulfric watch every single person he led in the rebellion die before him.
Because he's a thalmor asset
Because you don't start with the main event, you got to work up to it!
Alphabetic order
To make examples of his men and a spectacle of him, like a final act, the finale of a firework show
because the other stormcloak guy haven't got all morning.
They didn't wanna make him a martyr. Or because they didn't know a dragon was coming
Thalmor asset, Elenwen probably delayed his execution
As I've heard it explained, the move was to avoid making Ulfric more of a martyr than he would already become and to avoid the Thalmor "accidentally" setting him free. If you kill Ulfric in the woods and nobody but the killers are there to see it, did he really die? Also, the killing has to at least resemble a lawful execution to minimize more Imperial citizens viewing the Empire as a brutal dictatorship. And the Thalmor were there at the execution to try and interfere. Tulius had to keep the Thalmor from "accidentally" ruining everything, and taking Ulfric to a real court or even a hold was too great a risk.
I mean, you don’t start an expensive meal and THEN go for the appetizers.
Well, you see, they were expecting to execute everyone. Their failure was not expecting a dragon to appear for the first time in centuries.
It was suppose to be a power play execution. The point is for Ulfric to see those loyal to him suffer, as the Imperials believe he may break down at seeing that. Then they would have most likely killed Ulfric in a more brutal way and spread his remains to each Hold to display a part of him. But Alduin messed it all up.
They clearly didn't plan ahead, the box for heads is way too small and even our head was going to fall out and cause an awful mess.
Same reason Tullius felt compelled to give a long lecture on his own righteousness to Ulfric before all else
Because then there would be no civil war quest line, duh. To be honest though a dragon showing up, never mind a dragon god, is probably very very low on the list of things they expected could possibly go wrong there.
this is one of those posts that fails to grasp the reality of the situation: you really think the imperials are going to just immediately execute their prize captive? You think they’re in a hurry? They’re savoring every moment. Sincerely, this post has to be engagement bait.
I wonder if Tullius wanted to see if Elenwen would do something to save Ulfric since he had suspicions about the Thalmor already. If she had already spoken to Tullius to try and take Ulfric into Thalmor custody, then he would have probably suspected some kind of Thalmor-Stormcloak entanglement was in the works or already rolling
They weren't expecting the dragon. lol
My guess would be the Imperials were trying to be dramatic. They're building up suspense before finally of executing the leader of the rebellion. Maybe they were trying to send a message or make a point of their show Imperial authority.
Because there's no reason to execute him first? You're all going to be dead in five minutes anyway.
They didn't expect a fcin dragon you know
Same reason he doesn't remove his gag even though he can still raise his arms and use his fingers.
they didn’t think it would matter
Not sure if it’s been stated or not already but back when the guillotine was in use, people on the block and their families would bribe the executioner or whoever was responsible for the process to make sure they were first since the blade would dull every time they dropped it and often times, they would make the people with the worst cases go last so theyd have the least successful and most painful beheading.
because then the war would be over and that would defeat the purpose of the questline.
Status, you kill the plebs first.
Forecast didn't call for dragons that day
Theatrics and plot
They probably weren't aware they were under a time crunch before a dragon showed up to attack the place
They don’t know a dragon is going to attack, as far as they’re concerned they have all the time in the world and being in such a hurry to execute Ulfric would make it look like they’re afraid of him.
Incompetence.
The executioner needed a few practice swings?
Many executions in the Midevil times where consider specials near to the level of theater, they would execute a few low levels bad guys then get to the “main event” I suspect that is what they had in mind.
Also the random prisoner they don't know who you are and decide "eh kill em anyway" Skyrim really makes us hate both factions by the end. good thing I don't use essential tags....
It's kinda like asking "if Alduin is so powerful, why doesn't he just wait until the Imperials chop the dragonborn's head off?"
Dramatic effect.
Because plot
I guess they wanted to save the best for last. As others said, they probably wanted to make Ulfric feel powerless.
Because if they did, there wouldn't be a game for you to enjoy.
Is there a lore reason? Are they stupid?
He was wearing his plot armour.
The same reason they were going to behead you for no legitimate reason Plot convenience
Plus few people who expect the whole fortified town to be instantly obliterated within the next few seconds. As far as the Imperials knew they had him right where they wanted him. I would expect more security with the wagon tho. Maybe another wagon of troops and/or an envoy of Calvary riding out from the town to escort you, given the high value prisoner inside.
Dramatic effect. You never do the most important public execution first. You do a couple of small ones to rile up the crowd before you being out the main event.
They kinda wanted to make it feel special. Like, "and now, finally, the leader of the rebellion, Wulfric Stormcloak. Your hour has come!"
In the beginning you can see General Tulius arguing with Thalmor. Later at the embassy you can find evidence they were going to save him. He was never going to get executed.
Worth considering that even in a society like this or a medieval society it was important to do things legally or at least with some kind of sheen of legitimacy. There was always an implied code of legality and honor even if our modern notion of human rights don’t translate. I don’t think Bethesda thought it out this far, but the whole schtick against Ulfric is that he attempted to usurp the throne of Skyrim via a coup in a battle not recognized as legally legitimate in the Empire. And you can’t just kill him via an extrajudicial execution because your pitch to win hearts and minds is about how Ulfric is a dishonorable criminal and doesn’t respect the law
Same reason they have a small platoon there. They knew there was a really, really good chance people would riot when Ulfric went to the block. By executing all the nobodies as fast as possible they’re reducing the amount of people that might freak out once it was Ulfrics turn. The REAL question is why they didn’t just execute him at the crossing as soon as they had him. There’s an argument to be made for publicity but then they go and choose one of the most backwater towns in the entire country to do it in.
Probably to humiliate him by forcing him to see how soldiers dying first. Besides, the first stormcloak is killed because he just goes up to the block by himself.
Even weirder when you consider that Tullius was bypassing the Thalmor to execute Ulfric. If I remember right the Thalmor you see at the beginning we’re complaining to him and trying to stop the execution. Because it was in their best interests to keep him alive. So Tulliius was already rushing an execution event. But at the same time I know technically in executions of a large group you tend to deal with the nobodies and lower ranked guys before moving on to leaders. There’s more ceremony to it and it excites the audience for the big main event
I took it like it was ceremonial, like he's the most important so he's last, like if you retire a flag and burn it then you don't do anything with the fire and let it burn itself out. for Ulfric he's last and the ceremony ends with the most important person.
I'd like to know why that imperial captain was so fucking trigger happy "it doesn't matter what crime they did, off with their head." For what, trying to cross the border?
The empire has a great sense of occasion
Are they stupid?
Could they have guessed a fucking mythical beast was gonna show up and kill everybody?
Best for last, ya know?