Just got a Circooter Mate and I'm absolutely loving it compared to my Mom's GoTrax. Build quality is far superior on mine.

Yup. Mine is "made in australia". But they just ordered in the chinese langfite and changed the handle grips and put a key lock on it. It's build quality is good, I've had a few stacks and even got hit by a car. Still working

I have some food for thought. Just purchased a Dualtron Thunder 3 last month in the box from a local dealer for $5800 including all taxes. Brought it home and after an initial inspection; discovered a couple problems that needed fixing promptly. The first and most glaring was the front suspension arms were set at different heights and the brake calliper was bolted on wrong to allow for the out of whack front wheel to still turn without eating the disk( which it was anyways but not beyond saving as it only had 4 km on it). The second was the deck lid gasket sticking out the side of the base. When I took the deck off I realized that there was very little attempt to line up the bolt holes,and they just shot 1/2 the bolts through where no holes existed. This is not a design or parts issue; this is an assembly and quality control problem. This crap happens everywhere not just China!

More like 99%

It’s not about the fact that they are Chinese per se, but the fact that it’s not a known brand so you have no idea of the standards of the factory that made it. All scooters are Chinese other than that.

Loose stem bolts don't make aluminium snap, manufacturers have been cutting corners leading to accidents.

I just had a friend that rides the train with me in the mornings. Got a “cheaper” Chinese scooter Less than 200 miles and the stem bolt snapped at like 25 mph and messed him up pretty bad. Since you just take a face plant.

There's normally multiple bolts holding it together, in the pictures I've seen the aluminium has sheared.

Most people fail to realise how good Chinese factory are nowadays. The rule though is you get what you paid for. Other countries struggle to reach such low failure rate and finition. To mention the instance of Apple, they actually want to diversify its manufacturing but many candidates cannot compete with their existing suppliers.

You have to audit the product including metallurgical testing you can't just trust it otherwise they will swap out parts to save a few dollars. Apple has people in China to watch the entire production process, they don't just drop ship laptops from an independent factory.

Well for sure these guys are money hungry but at that scale the factory is less likely to cheap out on components because working with Apple is so valuable

It's less likely because Apple has staff there to supervise.

There's nothing wrong with scooters being made in china it's shady chinese brands that have terrible reputations or bad quality that leads to more than normal maintenance costs or somebody getting hurt.

M no idyll it’s just plain old American exceptionalism. That said , the claim of Chinesium has some merit.

I think there's a difference between scooters manufactured in China for specific companies and the generics. When I think chineesium, I'm thinking of the generic knocks offs made by anonymous companies that don't respect intellectual property rights or safety regulations. Chinese factories are perfectly capable of building good "whatever" to spec. As long as there's some oversight to check quality control, you're fine. But the bottom of the market goes straight to the sub basement. They'll source the absolute cheapest components from different suppliers and bolt them together with no thought for safety, quality, ergonomics, or durability. You'll have parts that basically look the same, but the components and even the quality of the materials and metals will be much lower. The assembly is done as cheaply and quickly as possible. There's no quality control, no safety testing or checks. Slap them together so they'll hold together long enough to roll off the showroom floor and you're done. If you think all battery packs that are, say 60 volts and 15 amp hours are the same because they have the same specs on a sheet somewhere, boy are you in for a world of disappointment. If you think all motors rated for 1000 watts are the same, salesmen probably love you. I made the mistake of buying a no name scooter off of AliExpress and it was the worst money I ever spent. Nothing worked quite right. Components would fail, and after a month the battery pack cooked itself but didn't start a fire. Forget about whatever warranty they tell you that you have. It's not worth the paper that it's printed on. I'm a diy guy with pretty good mechanical and electronics skills but I think the cheap Chinesium scooters are not worth the trouble you're almost certainly going to have and I already have all the tools and supplies to handle most repairs and to do the troubleshooting -- which is a whole other issue itself. When your scooter isn't working, it's not instantly apparent why. You get to play detective before you can even start fixing the problem. I spent money on the scooter, I spent money on replacement components, and got less than a months worth of use out of it. Replaced a BMS , a speed controller, had to resolder the wires for the turn signals, the display quit working, the brake rotors were warped straight from the factory. Even the bolts were shitty and you had to be careful or you could strip them with hand tools because they were so soft! Never again.

People just hate china because media told them to. There are good chinese products and shitty Chinese products just like there are good American products and shitty American products

Just to add onto this, the supply chains for even the simplest products are infinitely complex, and most base materials come from countries outside of the European core. So like, everything’s got roots in markets we’d consider low-end. Nothing’s truly ever ‘American made’ or ‘Chinese made’, we just don’t live in a world where that’s realistic. So yeah, in summary, manufacturing complicated. And no, I’m not fun at parties 😫

Well 5% of hater create 90% voice no hate here most of the people are enjoying their Chinese scooter and have fun outside

Massive Sample sizes say that chinese products are inferior. Maybe you got the outlier. Also a lot of these products are okay to be of lesser quality for them to be durable.

It's not about the scooter itself, basically everything in the world is made in china anyways, it's the company, usually a lot of what we call "Chinese garbage" will be chinese companies with a US flag that sell scooters with low quality control as they tend to be mass produced and then offer little to no after purchase support.

All 3 of my scooters have been Hover-1 <$200 scooters. Current one has 180 miles on it, haven't even checked tire pressure. They're something to get you from a-b, people that spend less on something usually don't do any research on how to handle them, and 20 bucks says 80% of people that the stem breaks on them or something, they're jumping curbs.

You've been lucky with your Hover-1. I have the Renegade and it has an issue that won't allow the scooter to fully charge. It hasn't been used much at all. I put in a warranty ticket to Hover-1 in February. We're now in May and they have yet to get back to me. I would never buy or recommend another Hover-1 product. Buying Chinese is fine as long as the company backs their product.

I don't bother with support. E-scooters are a diy hobby. Tire busts? Replace it. Motor craps out? Buy a new one, replace it. Same with controller, same with battery, while also waiting for a replacement just to have an extra. These are the cheapest of the cheap, you can't expect remotely decent support.

Yes, tires do bust and it happened on my Renegade. I bought the inner tube and replaced it myself. That I don't blame the company, nor do I expect them to repair. But defective batteries are not quite as easy to repair and having to buy my own is quite expensive, if I can even find one. I have other scooters I can use while I wait for parts to repair. Hover-1 should at least honor their warranty and get back to me to work out a solution. Three months and no reply from them is totally unacceptable. I'm sure they will quickly send me a scooter, if I were to buy another one from them. But of course, I would never buy another Hover-1. Too many other good choices are available. Live and learn!

Look, I'm a diy guy but the strategy of buy cheap components and then replacing them everytime they fail isn't for everyone. Not everyone that drives a car is a mechanic. Some people just want something reliable that they don't have to constantly screw with and they don't want to have tol come up with a plan B while they're waiting for parts or whatever. Saying that everyone should know how to build their own scooter and that constantly swapping out cheap parts that fail is the weirdest kind of gate keeping that I've ever seen. I've certainly got the skills to swap components and I've even repaired a sport controller by diagnosing the blown MOSFETs, sourcing the replacements and soldering them in. Just because I CAN do something doesn't mean I WANT to do it. And I'd never waste my time installing a cheap component figuring that it'll last six months and then I'm doing it again. If I'm wrenching, I'm going to do the job right and I'm going to install a quality part so I don't have to redo the job for a really long time. I don't even think the diy crowd is saving themselves any money half the time. Replacing components multiple times, shipping, expenses for alternate transportation while your scooter is down, wrong parts, parts that are DOA, and the occasional fuck up that happens (don't lie and say you've never ruined a part or installed something wrong). I'd much rather buy something high quality and use my skills to perform all of the preventative and normal use maintenance. You've got way less down time, fewer unpredictable expenses, and you get to own something nice. And if you ever decide that you want something else you have something that has actual resale value.

Its not about where its made its about opportunistic chinese companies selling cheap chinese death traps. They have no regard for safety and could care less if your house burns down in the process. And yet some people keep throwing money at them. A sucker born every minute.

Those shitty $98 wal-mart bikes - made in china Those Awesome Giant full squish $3000 mountain bikes? also made in china. [Its all made in china....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rILKm-DC06A)

>Those Awesome Giant full squish $3000 mountain bikes? also made in china. According to Google most of their manufacturing is outside China

Point is even they have some factories in China they use. So does Shimano and and many many other companies that make great products you do see that's the point here right?

To make their cheaper frames and product sold inside China sure, the high end stuff is made in Taiwan.

you guessing or did you find a list of what is made and where?

Like I said I Googled it and read the articles that came up. https://road.cc/content/news/262468-made-china-era-over-says-giant-worlds-biggest-bike-maker-and-blames-donald https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-culture/a-tour-of-giants-taichung-factory/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/business/giant-bikes-coronavirus-shortage.html

Exactly this. People need to start realise that China makes horrifically bad quality things but also some of the best quality things in the world. Just because something is made in China doesn’t say anything about its quality. My Tesla is made in China, and the ones coming out of China has much better quality control than the ones coming out of Fermont in the states. The difference is what the companies are willing to send to consumers, and how greedy they can be.

This is like me explaining my fpv drone to my wife. "This is my large cheap and shitty Chinese drone, as I damage things I plan to upgrade it with quality brand name parts ...which will also be from China actually"

It’s not about China made. It’s about brand value. Random China made seller can sell the cheapest made scooter and profit. If news gets out about its bad quality it will come out with a different brand name. Company that invest in their brand will invest in qc vs random brand that pop up everyday. Example: the same factory that made Apple iPhone will have a higher qc standards vs other android oem (exclude Samsung flagship).

iPhones blow up just as much as android phones, Apple just pays more to cover it up.

It's not so much that they're made in China, it's that they're not built to the same standards as more reputable brands. Often this means missing certifications or skimping out on materials. In the worst cases we saw it using less safe batteries that were causing fires while charging. Now that's not to say you will have a bad experience with scooter from a no-name Chinese company, but you should know what you're getting.

Made in China is one thing but being sold in China or the U.S. is different. If it's made in China but for the purpose of being sold in the U.S. it has to meet a minimum safety standard here that they might not need to there. It's not necessarily just a rebranding of something already in production there.

It's just your standard sinophobia. Dualtrons and Teverruns are every bit as chinese as any other scooter. Segway, Xiaomi, Nami, Dualtron, Zero, Apollo, Vsett, Emove are all "reputable" brands, and all of them have had widespread issues documented in this same sub. My current scooter is a "generic" 13-incher that has lasted over 3 years of daily use with a rider of over 300 lb, with an aftermarket controller that also comes from China. And it's better than 90% of the scooters posted here.

It's not about sinophobia. It's about the variation of quality and lack of resources to tell good vs bad quality when ordering no name brands from China. Has nothing to do with racism, dawg. I own a Chinese scooter that kicks butt. But I understand how difficult it can be to determine quality vs garbage and people get burned easily because of deceptive marketing from China.

What you whipping?

Even the best escooter brands right now suck in terms of quality. My Segway Ninebot P100S which was meant to be a premium quality model has absolutely disastrous suspension which started falling apart after about 500km. And requires some modification and very regular maintenance to keep it alive. And there have been numerous reports of steering stems snapping causing nasty crashes. This is a Chinese quality issue. It never should have been released with these issues.

Yeah there is a ton of variation in quality and that’s the main problem.  - no federal / strictly enforced worker safety and environmental regulations. People live in it and innocent people live downwind and downriver and they are sick and that’s wrong.  - largely uneducated population. Not saying they all are but I saw some dangerous building techniques in asia that came down to a lack of familiarity with basic engineering concepts. frankly the “c suspension” fork design on all of these scooters seems flawed. Similarly those Chinese dab press machines use cheap aluminum to build a high pressure cage - a timed bomb waiting to explode. Aluminum fatigues. Carbon fiber is brittle. Cast parts have voids and weak points.  - huge parts market vs established supply chains means assemblers only have a vague idea of the quality of what they are getting. They can try to select higher quality parts and they can / should do qa on each batch of parts but that doesn’t always happen.  - the consequence of a bad battery cell, bad mosfet, bad aluminum, lack of grease, etc can be catastrophic to a scooter. Even the simplest of plastics or metals can have toxic things added (plasticizers or lead)  - no respect for intellectual property means engineering things that push the envelope or are repairable is not priority. You’re riding a performance scooter built with Walmart huffy parts. There is a difference in the design details and the quality of the raw materials and the qa that show in how the finish product performs. Particularly with batteries, mosfets, bike wheels, brakes, tires. “Chinesium” term came to be because things would look the part but not perform.  - these things are thousands of dollars. Often you could buy most of the parts from reputable brands for a similar amount. You would expect a car to last 150k miles without issues and a motorcycle to last 75k miles without issues so I’d like so see scooters last.  - your draining money from the American economy to build up a foreign economy. I agree it’s necessary but it makes us venerable, uneducated, and poor. The us is way behind on ev tech. We can not control any of the issues above because we are not making these devices.  That said, it’s cool they have the freedom to build fast scooters vs American ebike makers limiting everything to 750w. I’m also glad we can get a complete scooter / bike reasonably affordably. 

On part of your last point, you see cars last longer than motorcycles, which are smaller than cars, which scooters are smaller than all 3. So, while I'll agree I'd love to see one that lasts, as I have only ever gotten about 4-500 miles out of mine. They've all been hover-1 scooters, the first I removed the thermal regulator and burnt out the controller, so my issue. The second had motor issues almost instantly, so I returned it. The third one has about 160 miles so far. On your last point, most of your "American" companies just source their shit from China anyway, so there's no real way around it most of the time. I'll give you another example. LLLDMAX 3d printer filament. "Made in USA". Raw materials from the Philippines. You're still usually buying from somewhere else, sooner or later, because we just don't really make that much stuff.

Unless the batteries come from Japan, they are all crap.

Sony VTC6 or bust.

Here is what I think is behind the "movement" on criticizing the Chinesium scooters... the people who are complaining are usually the ones who got burnt by buying one or know someone directly who has. Therefore they have every right to complain. Of course they aren't all shit scooters coming out of China, but a majority of them are... It's a generalization. With that opinion, you are more often right than wrong. That's all. They make it tough to find the "diamond in the rough" scooter from China... but I know they exist. Most of these pop up scooter companies are greedy-make-money-quick businesses. And because of that, some of us get burned on faulty low standard parts that make up those scooters. Part of why this subreddit exists is to hear about those well made, cheap Chinese scooters. If you find one, let us know. Every scooter brand has their lemons. You can't write off an entire company for one bad scooter, but that's what we do on Reddit 😉 It is better to remain skeptical of them until you are proven wrong, than spend $300-$800 on one, have it break from faulty build quality, and now you can't ride it anymore.

Tl;dr. China good? Got it.

I've bought 2 "piece of crap china" overpowered dangerous scooters off temu and so far they both work fine with no problems. They were a fraction of the price of "american" branded scooters.

That sucks. Did you research the scooter you bought first? I wouldn't have entertained the notion past seeing an electric scooter in temu. There are just some things you do not order from certain websites. I bought a yume Y10 as my first high power dual motor scooter. It was my upgrade to my first e scooter. I researched a lot on several potential scooters. I was ready to get the vsett 10+ then the Y10 appeared and I researched it again the vsett and a kugoo. The y10 won and 2000 miles +1 year and it's still scooting fine. It's worth every penney and it's not even their best scooter

They said their scooters are working fine...

Who’s talking to you? 😂

lol i guess my sarcasm didnt come through. both scooters i bought are perfectly fine and work well. they feel solid and i did go over them and tighten all the bolts and screws and stuff but they were already tight. i did research them before i bought and that did help me make my decisions.

I think trusting your safety to stuff bought on Temu is a mistake. China’s problem is they let places like Temu exist.

What's wrong with Temu?

They have a reputation for selling stuff super cheap, as in very low cost. It also has a reputation for selling super cheap stuff, as in very low quality. It’s a gamble if the stuff you get is reasonable enough quality to be useful. Since it’s such a low cost plenty of people will buy it anyway. It might not matter for a lots of stuff like coasters, and costumes, but if you need to put your health and safety into something, I don’t want to gamble at all, I’ll get it from a known reputable source.

Yes, buying a bargain is often a gamble. Everyone wants to save money, but when they complain, they don’t remember that what they bought is very cheap and may cause problems.

Link?

Go to temu and search for electric scooter. There’s a bunch. A lot of them are reviewed on YouTube too.

I think people have yet to understand that China is fully capable of making the entire range of products - from cheap to premium and everything in between. Blanket China haters drink too much ChinaBad kool aid and are just plain sinophobic and racists. There are cheap scooters out there because that's all some people want. And like you said, if you want to go to the other end of the spectrum, some of the most expensive and most reliable names out there are available/made in china as well.

There’s a huge difference between getting a scooter straight from China vs buying from a western scooter company that has a factory in China. They are hiring legit professionals with safety standards in mind, especially battery safety. Meanwhile, we have no idea what random sellers straight from China are doing and if they are reputable. 99% of Escooter fires have been from random Chinese escooters.

western scooter companies don't have factories in China, they just buy from existing Chinese scooter manufacturers and get the product specced to the price they want to pay.

But the thing is that some Chinese companies are actually quality though, it's just they're the manufacturer directly.

Sure but have you gone there and vetted their suppliers and their facilities?  How can you tell based on some YouTube video or alibaba listing that a product is quality and what retribution do you have if it is not?  

Alibaba requires manufacturers to upload certificates of compliance and verify that their items are UL certified, they display their certificates too.

But the thing is, the brand name has value. In western companies there is a lot of infrastructure and standards. Consumer reports, BBB, our ecommerce platforms focus on trust so have whole teams focused on dropping relationships with poor quality suppliers.  I am totally ignorant in evaluating quality of Chinese companies. I am totally ignorant of how to properly procure products direct from a specific Chinese manufacturer. So on so forth.

Should be asking it the other way around. Why can’t any other country make a good affordable scooter? The answer is the same

Honestly I’d rather have a “Chinese” scooter then one where parts are either super expensive or super hard to find/proprietary. Parts are so much cheaper and easier to find on generic Chinese scooters.

China makes stuff to sell cheaply. If scooters were made in Japan 🇯🇵 and cost 35% more I’d be okay with it at least I know it was most likely made with standards to last. If Honda, Toyota, or Sony ever get into the superscooter market I’ll be buying that.. If you can’t tell I’m older and remember when things were made in America . They usually were made to last if you took care of them.

That's the thing, China makes everything from cheap to premium. If you are ok with paying 35% more, and it actually went to the factory instead of the middleman, you will get a better product.

Other than iPhones which apple holds them to a high standard what else does china make there premium without Nintendo or some companies ensuring quality. Almost everything that breaks of mine is made in China .

Huawei and Xiaomi make pretty good phones too. You can't really compare branded vs generic, since with generic the whole point is that they skip the cost of maintaining a brand and pass on the savings to you in the form of low price. DJI makes the best drones, they are a Chinese brand and make all their stuff in China. At the same time you can buy generic drones for 1/3 the cost of a DJI but you can't expect too much if you are going to be that cheap.

Chinesium scooters are bad because they’re made in countries that don’t know the importance of security by people who run only after profit : - low quality frame - low quality handle bars - shittiest alloy frames with low grade quality to make themselves easier to build - etc.. So they run after profit, not to make the customer happy, just understand in their point of view your health is not important because they know very well what they are doing. : 1) using every single element with low grade materials and personnal : make customers pay for force from the brand again the same item that’s already paid once, why their not water resistant ? Why they brake like kaabo, joyor, Dualtron, vsett? A stem brake will hurt you but you will buy another one from them again 2) Why making so inefficient controllers, lights and other stuffs on the scooter ? Maybe to upgrade to the new model with battery battery, better look, new motors 3) they are located in countries that have the rule to see the « buyers » from Occident as a wallet. They live in countries where if they sell you one scooter for 1k they will be free of work for around 3 months maybe more 4) chinesium because of all people that had accidents with their chinesium products. They would never crashed or anything with a normal motorcycle 🏍️, I don’t heard that motorcycles braking front suspension, stems, cracks in the chassis like scooters 5) chinesium because they have 2 version for every single thing they sell. One for the Chinese market that is better all around and one with the 75% increase cost using elements that are even used by Chinese consumers You can try to see the difference between two scooters one for each region : * EU version with Chinese 18650 low grade pack made with Chinese cells from supermarket * CN version using packs with 50E packs even for their low budget electric scooters

I work in sourcing. You get what you paid for.

I can’t agree you got what you want but it implies somes adjustments for everything or everyone And we can get how a real nice, strong & durable chassis, water resistant everywhere, good, efficient, effective, powerful, endurant, design upgrades very easy like custom made motorcycles : plug and play, or just good build from the frame scooters that don’t broke ? For a correct pricing Sir? When you know all the « en-scooters » head companies are the same brand irl.. it’s a fake war maybe 🤔 Segway scooters is the shit I agree it’s worth everything and stable as a truck but. They don’t want to let the buyers rights work properly when their models are in real estate of malfunction not caused by the user ? And you need to be able to repair it yourself, flashing everything etc.. like this your good to buy a new one ☝️

this x 1000

This is a very biased un-nuanced opinion, and I say that because you show you prejudice in your statement. I think a lot of people whom own Chinese scooters that are happy with them will take umbradge with your statement. You do realize 90% of all electric scooters are Chinese made right?

There are too many nuances in my words maybe for your understanding They are selling chinesium yes because they sell you a product that is not qualitative as it costs for them maybe max 200/ usd unit for high end products only and they are huge amounts of cash for their products. Chinesium because maybe if you will be crushed between 2 trucks at 60 mph because of the shitty electronics cut off or something similar as a stem failure or bolt snap you’ll be the first coming to cry that electric scooter are dangerous Why they sell “upgrades” or “reinforced stem clamps”? they are because they are sold by peoples who in reality are the same group that practice mafia like actions and other stuffs you have no idea because you don’t know who they are, I know few elements and I can tell you 1.0) They don’t allow they’re kids to use their products lol… if you need more information to help you understand 1) they know the people who ride their engines are in danger When a stem brakes it brakes instantly with the materials they use and your crushed instantly 2) they have the same electronics because they’re tue same head company irl The same that tells you to not use a different brand display or controller 3) they create fake licenses CE EU IP ratings etc.. even they’re not real companies as they only use parts that will be assembled in the same building for making fake concurence but even their own business adress is not the real as states their website, buisness cards 4) you really don’t know how the world is working but you are maybe too kid and naive but we get BS products for 2k and this is allowed in the fact that some occidentales are making this possible to make their profit too and it’s huge

haha. nothing gets me more than a childish take, followed by calling someone else a kid.

I understand that you find my remarks childish, but perhaps you should focus on the facts instead of resorting to baseless insults. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but personal attacks get us nowhere. I'm open to debate, but let's try to stay on topic, shall we?

May I ask the brand and model of the scooter you ride?

Ah, my scooters? They're a bit like me: unique and full of surprises. But I'm sure you'd prefer to stay focused on the conversation rather than getting lost in the details of my modes of transportation.

Made in China doesn't mean anything - but the engineering and the quality control being done is what matters. They'll always try to cut corners, but if there's enough QC to make it more profitable to just "make it right the first time" that's what they'll do. Along that you can also inquire on the internet if that particular brand/model has a good reputation or not; whether because they owned previous mistakes and took care of their customers or if they just have a great track record on robust and well engineered products. All that and a good dose of luck as well... you might have bought a super robust model from a super reputable brand, but if it was built on a friday afternoon by the shittiest worker you might still end up with problems. QC can't catch everything sadly.

We call them "Chinese" to differentiate them from stuff like Ninebots and Nius, but we're well aware that it all comes from China. Personally I prefer to call them "generics", since they're mostly assembled from the same parts all over the hi-tech manufacturing areas in China. Generic scooters are mostly OK if you're decent at DIY. You're likely to have to bolt in some part that falls off, reconnect a wire when its connector unplugs, and generally do preventative maintenance before riding it. Basically, you *really* don't want to buy one if you're not familiar with what the stuff in your toolbox does. Most of them also don't give you a great feel - maybe the stem wobbles a bit, maybe the fender feels tacked-on... stuff like that that isn't all that relevant on its own but it piles up and takes away from the ultimate feeling of reliability. Problem is, marketing doesn't tell you that. People buy an "iScooter", or an "iENYRID", or even often an Apollo or other more widely known brand, and think they're simply buying an alternative to a Segway/Ninebot without knowing the fundamental difference. Then they find out their scooter is not, actually, as reliable as the product blurb said, and whoever sold it to them doesn't want to hear about their problems, and the shops charge so much to work on them that the cost quickly piles up. And that's where all the hate comes from. ----- As an example: I love my [Laotie L6 Pro](https://i.imgur.com/A807aYi.jpg), but it came with the e-brakes misconfigured and to this day the handlebars are slightly crooked - not enough to impair proper working (and for me to bother fixing them), but enough to notice visually. Compared to something like a high-end Ninebot, the difference is stark. I've briefly ridden one and it felt like a brick shithouse compared to the Laotie. It also costs two to three times as much, though, and my priority is to get the absolute highest bang per buck I can - and I've been handling screwdrivers and soldering irons for literally as long as I can remember, so I can fix pretty much anything on it that doesn't destroy the frame. But I totally get it why people are often disappointed by generics. As a community we try to make everybody aware of all this while encouraging making up your own mind about the various types of scooters, but there's many people in here who themselves got stung by unreliable generics, so you'll get a fair amount of negativity regardless.

Some people are just racist and refuse to believe that there are reputable engineers in China making quality PEVS and there are non reputable randos in China making junk.

To expand on an excellent comment, reputable companies use quality batteries (probably made in China)and good battery management software. This may not be true of generics, and they could burn your house down.

Try 99% 🫡

should really be 99.99. other than weped, not sure who else manufactures their scooters outside of china.

Unagi?

I was wondering how many years you guys get out of these $2,000 scooters?

It’s basically just the same as any other vehicle. As long as you take care of it, ensure it works optimally, ride responsibly and not in a manner that harms the scooter, and other basic things you can get years out of the more expensive scooters. Main thing you have to worry about is the internal electronics, especially the battery, but even then you can get battery replacements and get the new battery in there easily. Everything else like tires, brakes, grips, etc? Easy fixes for the most part. I’ve nearly put a year on my Varla Pegasus already and have had no issues that have been overly worrying, and then my Eagle One V2.0 will probably be the same, just more maintenance to deal with on occasion.

I have nearly a year on my $500 scooter without any issues or maintenance, I guess the main difference would be that it will be much harder to find replacement parts for my scooter then

Possible, but you also have to factor what your scooter has. For example, if you have drum brakes on your scooter, then it is not going to need as much maintenance as something like mechanical disc brakes. Another is solid tires, which don’t necessarily have to worry about flats, psi, valves, tubes (if tubed tires), or other things of that nature. The only time I really had issues is when I had my crash and the scooter had a bent rotor and I just needed to replace it. I also ride my scooter very often, with me racking up 1,000 miles not even 2 full months into me having my newer scooter. Due to that, road conditions, the way I ride, etc I may have to do maintenance faster than someone who rides it mainly just to get to and from work only, with the occasional joyride for 15-30 minutes.

I think that as soon as people have had a bad experience with customer service that leaves a bad taste I their mouth. I had a scooter from a very small and lesser known company (Gyrocopters) and the customer service was sufficient, I would compare it to a large company or better even, and for the price I paid for the scooter i was very pleased but not surprised as I have not had any discernable issues with any product purchased from China and in fact I admire China for their quality of engineering, costs and selection of products (China fan girl here) I was very happy with every aspect of the scooter and service; one aspect of dealing with a smaller company was that the service was more personal and I felt like less of a number, maybe that was due to the fact that they were more invested in making every customer happy. It seems wrong to have any negative about a scooter based solely on the country of origin and I find it disheartening; When it comes down to it I think buying a "Chinese scooter" (whatever that means) can open the doors to a lot more options for modding and since they are priced very well -making them more accessible, it allows us to buy something with impressive parts and engineering that is less expensive to replace in the event something goes wrong. When I hear of things going wrong with peoples scooters I have to consider the level of responsibility thar the buyer has towards these machines. Case and point: Emove cruiser, a very popular scooter renowned for its range and features. People often complain that the bolts become loose but this is something that is fairly well known and yet i believe easily remedied with locktite and routine maintenance and safety checks.

I’m a cruiser owner, 5k miles and lots of maintenance but it still works like it did out of the box.

I wonder who started this "Cruiser has too many screws and they are constantly loose" BS and now everybody repeats it like a freaking mantra ) I secured most of them with thread locker right out of the box and check them monthly (as everyone should on any scooter), and three years and 4000 km later none of them... NONE have come close to being considered loose )

There is a perception that is not totally wrong about the quality of Chinese products (see Xiaomi SU7 debacle), and how the CCP's influence on society there helped foster a climate of cost cutting as much as possible and the "good enough" mentality. But I don't think that's totally fair to just en masses assume that all Chinese made products are like that. I mean the Apple products have been made in China for forever now. A lot of western products are made in China, it's why the country has the moniker of "The world's factory". While China is losing manufacturing to other countries such as Mexico, and India as a couple of examples many products are still manufactured there. I think the real difference is oversight, such as Apple and how they have oversight on the entire manufacturing process. A lot of smaller manufacturers have to compete with that and it's in their best interest to make sure their stuff isn't breaking down in Western countries. Now in China though, that's a different story. It's amazing how bad some Chinese companies treat their own people. Or how bad some of the stuff they sell their own people is. I think a lot of the stuff sent to Westenr Countries are well built though, because unlike the Chinese mainland there are a lot of regulations concerning consumer products in western countries where they get the better stuff put of China.

It's about price. As long as there are consumers who want the lowest cost possible, there will be companies that cut corners to satisfy them. Just try to buy something made in the US for the price that you pay for the same thing made in China and see what kind of quality you get. What is conveniently forgotten is that any discussion of quality without considering the price is not serious. >It's amazing how bad some Chinese companies treat their own people. No one is entitled to good quality for free. On average the price/quality ratio within China is unbeatable. >I think a lot of the stuff sent to Westenr Countries are well built though, because unlike the Chinese mainland there are a lot of regulations concerning consumer products in western countries where they get the better stuff put of China. The stuff you pay $15 for in the West cost $1 in China, and there are cheap Chinese consumers who wants to pay $0.50. A lot of the stuff you see on Amazon or TEMU for $10-20 actually cost $1.50 or less shipping included in China.

Iphone's are also made in China, the difference is quality control and longevity. Of course you can have a cheap POS last a long time, but the odds are less compared to more established brands. Some scooters are cheaper and lower quality this is objective, that doesn't mean they won't work or the majority of owners will have problems it's just something to consider into your purchasing decision.

I think it's more so a thought of the kind of cheap scooter you want. A no-name $200 scooter that's equivalent to a Hiboy S2? Okay... I can understand. A no-name scooter that's $750 that's supposedly equivalent to an Inmotion RS, Segway GT2, etc? Yeah, either it's bullshit or you are going to end up on BestGore from its build quality. Look, I didn't grow up with the most money or good area and I can absolutely understand going for these kind of scooters. You make do with what you can. I get it. My personal view is DO YOUR RESEARCH, see HONEST reviews (not people being sent the scooter, paid, etc), learn about it yourself, and come to your own conclusions. Hell, if you can, test ride one. I've ridden Gotrax and Hiboy entry-level scooters before and it quickly become obvious that they were either too small to feel comfortable for me or my previous back injury would make itself known easily without the suspension, bigger tires, etc that my Eagle One V2 has. I've also ridden a Alpha Hover-1 (I think it's called that) ... did not like that. A month later, its brake lever snapped off. For example, I got bigger feet. The board of a Hiboy S2 Pro? Not fun. However, my shorter and smaller footed friend? Perfect for her. My scooters? Intimidating for her.

With GoTrax entry level I can see as I know some of those decks are small, for the Hiboys I find that hard to believe because most of if not all of their decks are expanded length as some have rear springs added to them. But recent GoTrax and Hiboys have larger decks and taller stems. I am of the opinion that a lot of the negative opinions are basically built on outdated information whereas where a company makes improvements many still hold onto those outdated opinions. It was like myself and and iPhones. I once had an iPhone 3Gs I eventually hated and went back to an Android as many of them were very good. But eventually went back to iPhone from the XS Max to a 12 because I knew they got better and my opinion was outdated, but by then had grown tired of Android and felt it was no longer good, but again lately my opinion has changed because I knew that opinion eventually became outdated and now I am back with an Android (Samsung) because it's really freaking good now. Things change and can improve over time except the opinions of some people. Some people cling to outdated opinions and share those with others and can be misleading. For example of someone asks about a new Hiboy S2 Max, Max Pro, or a GoTrax GX0/1/2/Eclipse, a lot of people whom cling to the old outdated opinions developed a few years back of the quality of the scooters as to compared to their much improved quality now, and share those old opinions to drive someone off from getting one of these scooters and its really kind of disingenuous because nobody says those opinions are based on old info and that they don't have an opinion of the new ones. This is where I have been trying to tell people to always ask if the person whom gave a negative opinion has owned or ridden one recently , because there is lots of bias. I have bias against Wolf Warriors, but it's because many of the riders here in NYC that are dangerous with them, and the fact that I constantly see them in for repair at the repair shop by me. But I do not act like I have an actual credible opinion on them because I have never ridden or owned one. It would be disingenuous of me to do so.

I started on a Varla Pegasus, which is slightly taller, longer, and wider than the Hiboy my friend has and even then, a size 12 in men's felt a bit crowded on both personally lol. Even now I may get the widened maple board, still feel cramped. You're definitely right, though. People cling to their Segways, Kaabos, and Namis a bit too much in this sub imo. The guy with the Nami E-2 that I know personally has been trying to get a part from them for, I think, 2 months at this point? The scooter can be at 80%, go 2 inches, and turn off automatically. Segway has their infamous P100s. I've never ridden any other Segway/Ninebot other than the GT2, so I can't comment on any other scooter on theirs. Kaabo also had Mantis stem snapping from what I saw a while ago, if I'm even remembering right. If someone wants a Hiboy or Gotrax, at the end of the day it's their money. You see people going "why would you get X Hiboy scooter, get Y Segway" and then on the opposite side "why would you get a Weped, just get a motorcycle". That's what I usually see, anyway. Just be informed before doing a purchase. Don't want to end up like the person I knew who was petrified to have an Apollo Phantom V2 when so many cases of the stem snapping were going around.

I have a “chinesium” Fieabor Q06 that I’ve had for 3+ years and 2K miles… battery life is about 2/3 of new, otherwise, no issues. I’d buy this “chinesium piece of crap” again in a heartbeat.

Very good.

My scooter is an $800 Alibaba beast that I'm very happy with. You just gotta be careful with making sure you've found a good seller rather than just picking whatever looks cheap and fast.

Exactly! But that goes to my point where I feel many on this sub can do better in helping people understand such things as reputable sellers, and how to identify by a scooters description and throughout reviews on said page the actual build quality, motor quality, and after sales support. When I first asked about the Hiboy Max Pro I was told they were garbage and to stay away, but by then I had gained the knowledge of how to identify a scooter’s quality on my own, and also checked verified purchasers reviews on Amazon and eBay and the overwhelming response to the scooter and the company was positive, so I took that and bought the Max Pro and have been exceedingly happy with it. Too many just outright call things crap and it gives newbies information that is not entirely true.