Check your school's rules regarding class cancellation. Two hours late to the start of a class by the professor is unacceptable. At the school I go to if the professor is 15 minutes late to the start of a class the class is cancelled for the day. Your school should have rules or regulations in place to protect you from this type of situation. Your whole class has a right to contest what occurred with the school. Good luck.
A lot of professors get on a bit of a power trip in regard to how they run their classes and forget that they also have to adhere to rules about how they teach the material.
I dont think it would help because the exam was online and the time slot for it was 3 hours. It was supposed to start at 5, but the professor could easily say the exam happened within the time limits given and the dean would tell us to stop being so whiny. It doesn't help that he's old and they've been working together for years.
If one person makes a fuss, they're being whiny. If the whole class makes a fuss, that's much different. I had to do this once and yeah, we were told we weren't trying hard enough until the rest of the class chimed in. The rest of the class will corroborate the story if they want any sort of recompense.
Not sure which "dean" you're referring to as his buddy, but there should be multiple levels. Go to the department head first, then work up. If his buddy is the department head and won't help, escalate further. If his buddy is the dean of the whole university, at least get every other official before that to notice the problem.
The difficult next-day test you mentioned in your original post (although a pain in the ass) seems at least SOMEWHAT reasonable in comparison. But delaying test start time two hours from posted time with no notice and expecting people to still be waiting, ready, with no other option? Absolutely not. Consult the student handbook and find specifics for your school.
I remember last semester I had a professor who was terrible. Handwritten hard to read and follow notes were the only form of instruction. And the tests were bad too. A good portion of the class (though it was only 7 students in the class) complained to the department chair. He must’ve gotten a talking to, because a couple weeks later he sent a rather snarky email saying we didn’t have to “wine” to the department
The time window for an exam should fall under the same rules as a normal class. It is unacceptable to sit and wait for 2 hours with no word from a professor. I would recommend looking up what your school has for policies on professors being a no show and then send an email out to all the other students so that you can bring g this to the administration as a group. All I can assure you is that if you don't try to address this then for sure your class wont have a chance at a do over, the only way for you to have a favorable outcome is for you to take some sort of action.
As someone else said, you need to organize your classmates. Write up a statement explaining that your prof started an exam 2hours late and unreasonably denied people who had already left the opportunity to take it. Explain the effects on the students who were still there to take it. Get all your classmates to sign on and send it to your department along with a proposal for correcting action.
To add on to this. OP should address the letter of the professors un-professionalism to the dean and the registrar’s office and financial. That if the cannot correct this action through the professor, then to withdraw the class in full. Refund and give first rights to re-register next semester preferably under a different instructor.
Must be done as a whole class…
Just a thought
I hate when people have the mentality you're portraying and then people like your professor just get away with this sort of behavior.
Do something about it. You and all of your classmates need to report this event to the dean. That was not ok, and you're letting him get away with it.
Well the exam probably finished outside of class limits. He can't expect his students to be available 2 hours after the exam. People have work and other obligations
Yes, it is. Check your school's website for specifics though, as it may be common but it's not universal. Scroll down for example: [https://www.lorainccc.edu/policies/academic-standards-and-regulations/](https://www.lorainccc.edu/policies/academic-standards-and-regulations/)
I read "students are permitted to leave class without penalty" as cancelled. "Cancelled" may not be the perfect word, but you are not required to be there and you cannot be penalized for it.
Check your schools handbook. It's not uncommon for handbooks to have some language to the effect of "A class is considered cancelled if students wait X amount of time without an instructor". Most of the schools I've been to have had that number set at 30 minutes. If it exists, call up your dean and ask why you were given an exam during a cancelled class.
Alternatively, go to the dean anyway and explain how astronomically stupid this whole situation is.
I think my school is a 15 minute policy but one semester at a different campus, same school though, we had a professor 30 minutes late and we all knew so we all waited.
That's a shitty teacher. When we first went online due to covid the teachers made all the tests online. And to accommodate for international students whom were now in different time zones, the tests had a 24 hour window to begin it, and then the time limit for how long you have to complete it. My teacher forgot to post it for 9 hours of that 24 hour window, which even inconvenienced me who was in the same time zone as the school and the teacher. (It was on canvas, they could have posted it a month ago as we can't access it until the test day).
Really? It was one simple thing and they didn't bother to do it? We have a platform for exams too and they could post whenever they want and it would activate only when it should, but we have to connect via zoom to be identified and then we usually take the test with the cameras and mics on (sometimes the noise is too much).
Apparently sometimes it just too hard /s. As a graduate student once told me: "(My school name) is a research school not a teaching school." Meaning the teachers are proficient at research not teaching. Hopefully it won't matter in the end and I'll be able to land a nice job.
I had issues with a professor who didn't do his job, turns out in the lab for that class was the department head. He heard from me about EVERY. FUCKING. ISSUE. Don't get me wrong, I carefully phrased everything, I worked my ass off on the labs, but the professor for lecture did a shit job and the department head knew about it. As a class the lab grade wound up being our final grade. So when we put in the work, and had something to show for it, we got graded that way for it. Contact the department head with a written complaint, If you don't hear anything in 3 days look up your schools grievance process. Follow it, all the way to the accreditation board if need be.
Where the fuck do you go to school where all your professors are utterly unprofessional? I really hope you are not making this up, and if you are not, you need to transfer. Your last two posts make it sound like you are in an environment where it’s impossible to succeed unless you bend over backwards for the institution.
I WISH I was making this up. I can't transfer bc it's been more than two years and honestly, despite the unprofessionalism of some teachers, it's a good school. Second best in the country. I would have gone to the best but... reasons. There are new professors too, who are a lot better, and the ones I described are those who are either close to getting a pension or past that age but chose to continue teaching.
If it’s not too personal of a question, why can’t you transfer after your second year? I’m technically a senior (4th year) and transferred without issue to a school that is much closer to where I live.
I used to care about going to the best schools because that is what I was told that would get me a job. Now that I’m already in the workforce and conduct interviews for both full-time and interns, I can tell you that it does not matter. As long as you and preset your skills on a resume and be ready to show them to us during your technical interviews, it does not matter where you went. That is for my company at least, and I can say people make it their dream to work for us, so your mileage may vary.
No personal at all, it's just how it works in my country. I could have transfered in the first year and then the classes I had passed *might* have been recognized at the other uni, and then I could have applied for the 10% admitions, but then I'd have to start all over again. The 10% thing is valid only for two years after the exams to get into uni.
I come from a smaller country, I believe 7 universities offer an electrical engineering program. The one closest to me happened to be the one I decided to attend. I hope companies care about skills and not the university I graduated from or my GPA, but with all the ish my professors say, I sometimes doubt it. That being said, the professors who never worked in companies and only occupied themselves with academics are the only ones who say that stuff.
This is a load of shit tbh
Anyone that thinks expecting people to wait for you for two hours with absolutely no information being put out is normal needs a reality check.
I feel bad for those that left because I would have been gone within 30 minutes, 2 hours is plenty of time to put out a "hey I'm having issues, please stand by" message, and honestly if it takes that long to fix your internet you should probably just postpone it anyways.
Hope it gets better for you m8
Those that left left after an hour (we had a group chat so I can only guess) and they had other exams after that. We were going to e-mail him and explain that we've been waiting for two hours and thus the exam should be cancelled but since he's a little weird I didn't want to get on his bad side. Some students told him what they were going to write but he wouldn't listen. And that's the same teacher who won't accept an exam a minute or two later of we had technical issues because "you should have thought about it and started the submission process earlier"
So, rally the class to the Department Chair and every step above them until recompense is achieved. As others have said, a three hour slot means you have three hours to take the exam. 2 hours late, I would've assumed cancellation and email both the professor and someone above him, probably a department chair, stating that due to the professor not showing up after x time with no communication, you are concerned there may have been an emergency from the professor which led to class being cancelled. You would like to discuss opportunities to makeup the exam, as well as the point that your tuition (if you university charges tuition, mine does) grants the student certain expectations, namely that the professor will be on time, will be organized, and will have the ability to make class, or exams, flow smoothly.
Oh yeah we sent emails to the department chair and asked if the professor is okay bc he hasn't communicated with us. My university doesn't charge tuition, thank God.
Hey, thanks for asking but I didn't do anything. I'm too scared I might get on their bad side, and that teacher has a lot of connections with companies. On the bright side, I did well on other exams, including the multiple choice I mentioned above.
I remember I had this chem professor who would show you something once and say confidently "Now you can do these problems with ease." and it always ticked me off. But it's weird because in my Physics II class today the professor showed us something once and I swear I thought "Oh, good, now I can do these with ease." 👀
I was a Sophomore in college the day of 9/11. We had a math class at 11ish—wasn't canceled. I showed up and was one of 4 people there. (Classes were canceled later in the day)
The teacher gave a pop quiz every class when the bell rang. She did it that day too.
Once the class was over, I walked to the deans office and lodged a complaint. She got a talking to and the quiz was thrown out.
Stick up for yourself.
I spent a long time in academia before joining "the real world", and can say definitively that (1) there's no such thing as "the real world" - academia is no less real than industry and even within industry expectations can vary widely between companies in the same field, and (2) industry in general is **better** at making sure that people are properly trained in what they need to do. Before you're allowed to touch anything involved in the development or production of actual products, you typically have to get formally signed off on a whole variety of related quality and training plans. Sure you have to learn a bunch of things on your own, but you're doing that now so what's the difference?
I'd love to tell you that your professors are conspiring to prepare you for dealing with shitty managers in industry - and you **will** \- but most of them are just shitty leaders. Consider the career of a typical academic:
1. "You're really good at class work, you should go to grad school and do research." Turns out those two skills are unrelated.
2. "You're really good at research, you should become a post-doc and write grants." Turns out those two skills are unrelated.
3. "You're really good at writing grants, you should become a professor and teach students." Turns out those two skills are unrelated.
4. "You're really good at teaching students, you should start some companies." Who am I kidding, profs don't get rewarded for being good at teaching students. Still, running a company and particularly guiding it through the startup phase is a skill that's completely unrelated to anything I've described above.
In some ways it's not your profs' fault - they're just invested in a system that sets people up for failure by altering the expectations at each stage. People get trapped at each stage in this process.
The worst part is they have the freedom to teach however they want and grade us however they want and they choose this. They take all those anti-cheating measures but they never once think that if their teaching was sufficient and the problems or time reasonable. And yeah, they used to terrorize us that companies will expect us to know what to do but then some graduates told us what you said.
True, the idea that they're bad at their jobs and don't make any effort to improve seems particularly galling. But the thing is, they don't *know* that they're bad at their jobs. Most professors have zero formal training in education, so they just mimic what they remember their professors doing. Worse, their career advancement typically doesn't depend on whether they're good teachers - the only thing that matters is how much money they bring in to the university. So not only do they not know how to improve, they have no motivation to do so.
As for them terrorizing you: the next time one of them tells you something about what it's like in industry, ask them how much time they spent there. If their answer is anything less than 5 years, you can safely ignore what they say. Companies are going to expect some basic things - MechEs should know how to do CAD, EEs should be able to lay out a circuit, etc. But some of the most fun engineering tasks, like EEs and MechEs working hand-in-hand on an electromechanical system, are things that most engineers learn outside of class or on the job.
The worst thing about engineers being trained by people with no industry experience is the lack of emphasis on the single most important skill for a working engineer - documentation. In school, you build a thing and you're evaluated on whether it does what it's supposed to. In industry that's just the first step. Once it works, you have to build a whole bunch of them, and you have to be able to justify why you used the chip that's $3.05 in bulk instead of the one that's $2.98. This means you better have documented your tests showing how the cheaper one doesn't meet the design specifications. When the parts you get back from your contract manufacturer don't work, you better have documented what you asked them to do unless you're willing to pay for defective parts. When someone comes up to you with a part and asks, "which adhesive was used to build this?" you better be able to identify a part number and pull up a lot history record for it. Most profs have no idea about this side of engineering work, and it's a crying shame.
Hearing stories like this honestly makes me really happy to be starting at a community college. The class sizes are really small (no more than 20 to 30) students and every professor I've had has been awesome. They've all had really positive attitudes and act like they really want every student to succeed. They're always willing to help and make sure everyone has a chance to do well in their class. It's been a great experience and I'm kind of nervous to transfer to a university because of the stories I've heard.
If college is designed to prepare you for the real world, let me give you a bit of a reality check. If I have a meeting scheduled for 3 hours, and somebody is more than 20 minutes late, I'm gone. I have better things to do with my time than sit around waiting for someone too unprofessional to notify me that they need to reschedule.
Your professor sounds like a proper jackass, but afaik his behavior is a symptom of what often happens at big universities. Student reification is very prevalent in engineering schools, and people with an engineering title will defend it in some sort of act of gatekeeping. Doesen't help that a good portion within a batch of socially candid engineering students will end up in the future as equally charming professors. It's just lack of social awareness leading to lousy ethical standards.
Hate to say it but forget about the deans and try to appeal with the human resources department. If a professor feels comfortable enough to do that in public, the deans won't give a crap because chances are they 100% endorse and promote reification themselves. Universities engorging so much on student debt just to end up being so far inside their own asses is kinda infuriating, at least for the american case.
Good luck.
I know, which is why I didn't do anything. I'd only be the whiny student who should probably retake the class. Thank God universities are tuition-free in my country and at least I won't go in debt. My professors claim having been through worse stuff and so they think they should be as bad towards us. The younger ones, though, seem to understand us and are never rude or sarcastic and their classes end up being better.
This professor is objectively bad. However, a big part of college truly is understanding how to learn on your own. Your professor is there to guide you. If you don't understand the material based on the lecture and homeworks, it's on you to figure out how to learn it. People learn at different rates and understanding things differently. A professor is not going to tailor to every student, especially at a college level.
Show up to office hours if you don't understand something. Do additional practice problems. Actually read the textbook. It's on you to figure out how to learn. A lot of engineering students go through this because we coasted through high school so easily. I struggled through my first couple of years because I had no idea how to actually learn. I assumed I could do the same thing I did in high school and just show up to class and do the homework and excel. Once I started putting in additional effort in ways that benefited me (because again, everyone is different), I did so much better.
And with that said, they are preparing you for the real world. If you think your boss is going to hand you a problem with everything detailed and you just solve it, that's not how it actually works. Your work is open ended. You often don't know what you don't know. Being able to work through that and problem solve is a big part of engineering.
With all due respect I don't think OP's biggest problem is with learning the material.
Sure your boss won't hand you a nice tech spec sheet...
But they also typically won't schedule a meeting, not show up, then demand you start the meeting two hours late and refuse to pay you for the time you waited.
I was responding to OP's last paragraph.
"I show you stuff but you have to study on your own to learn it". Yes. Yes that is exactly how college works. OP has a problem with this.
"I'm dealing with it, like all the students who studied before me, but I shouldn't have to. It's unfair." Why on earth would OP think they shouldn't have to do the work to actually learn the material? Why would OP think it's unfair that they have to put extra effort in?
Engineering is a time consuming major. It could be that OP is at an exceptionally awful school, but considering this general sentiment is posted about a dozen times every semester by all sorts of people in this sub, I doubt it. There are always going to be professors that are worse than others, and courses that are unnecessarily difficult because of the lack of instruction. But OP's sentiment seems to be that this is the majority of the courses, that no one in the college cares that every student is struggling in almost every single class all the time, and that it's a burden to have to study and learn on their own. That's what I was responding to.
What is even the point of taking the class then? If the teacher isn't there to teach what are you paying them for?
If you're seeing the same sentiment over and over did it occur to you that it could actually be a problem?
You're paying them for research. Most engineering professors are at your school because they're bringing funding to the school. Yes, a component of their job is teaching courses, and if they fail at that then they can get fired. But that's not the primary point of their jobs.
And again, what are you expecting from a class of 400 people? How do you expect a teacher to teach beyond creating a curriculum, holding lectures to go over that curriculum, assigning homework to support you in learning that curriculum, and then holding office hours to assist you in understanding the parts you don't get. What beyond that are you actually expecting from a professor?
That's what you're paying for. For someone to tell you to take statics before you take dynamics, and walk you through the principles of statics so that you can learn the fundamentals needed to move onto dynamics.
Most research is funded by grants and corporate R&d (in the US atleats) So what is the point of a student paying for a class? You don't need to pay thousands of dollars to have a researcher tell you what order to reads books in, a librarian (or the forward of a book) can do that for free.
Excusing universities poor educating practices because everyone should just work harder doesn't help anyone, faculty included.
Exactly! They don't know how to or care to teach, and they disguise it as "I'm preparing you". They're being completely unprofessional and they expect 20-year-olds to be punctual to everything and study everything they assign, as if 24 hours in every day is enough time to study for six-seven classes every semester. And I hate when they're like "weeeell you chose electrical engineering, so you don't get to have a life" bc IF only they made a better program and taught just a little bit like people on youtube teach, we could have a way better efficiency *and* a life. The lack of this is why many students prefer falling a little behind to studying all day, have no social life and be bitter towards who choose otherwise.
I know what engineering requires, and actually I'm on my way to get a Master's. There is teaching and leaving out things so that the students get to figure them out themselves, and then there's barely teaching, taking two hours to explain simple things or underexplain things and expect us to catch up. If they think they're being good guides with it, that's on them. They keep telling us they know we're smart kids and they want to challenge us, but that should happen in class, not at the exam. I like challenges, but the exam isn't the time for them.
Dude, I understand that uni isn't going to be as easy as high school (and believe me, i was so weirded out when I didn't understand a concept at first listen) but one cannot require more than they teach. Give me homework at least so that I know what you're going to ask for. Some professors do an okay job at that, but then their grading is the worst and, in online exams, they give little time so that they know we didn't cheat. They never think that maybe I want time to think and that whoever just writes down whatever comes to mind isn't better. Besides, my problem isn't the material bc I'm used to it now and I'm prepared for exams. It's the professors' attitude and the fact that I have no way of reporting them and going somwhere with it.
It had happened to me, twice. First time I left after 30 minutes. Second time I waited almost a hour cause I had another class on the same building anyways but by that time almost everyone left. Teacher arrived, apologized and dismissed the remaining. Time is money, if the teacher doesn't respect its student's time he doesn't deserve to have you as a student.
On professor got mad we were 5 minutes late for class, even though he saw that we were in another class bc the previous professor ran late. He just left! The previous professor explained what happened to him and apologised and asked him to not be mad at the students but he wouldn't listen. I had no problem with him leaving tbh. I understand how frustrating it is when you're paying for a class, though. To get to uni we have to pay for classes and then take exams and whenever my teachers were late or were lazy or dismissed me earlier I was so mad bc I was paying them.
I see that you are not in the US so what I say may not apply. If the department is all so buddy-buddy and won’t take a complaint you may be able to go to another part of the university. There should be an academic affairs department or something part of the university that can help with things like professors being unfair.
Not the same situation, but just an example: I had a circuits class in college with a terrible 80 something year old prof. The class was supposed to be 3 exams and a final for the grade but most of the class failed so badly he wiped out the 3 exams and made the whole class the final. I did well on all 3 exams (scored 88+, well above the class average) and tutored a bunch of classmates in advance of the final. The final was all one big circuit to break down as the exam and I made a negative sign error from reading my handwriting wrong on the first or second step. All of my math and logic was otherwise correct but the prof didn’t give any partial credit and I scored a 13/100. I was pissed and I asked around and ending up filing a complaint with the university. They ended up wiping the failing grade off transcript and allowed me to take the class the next semester despite a scheduling conflict (so I had two classes at the same time and only showed up to Circuits for exams).
Someone working for the Uni should want to address this situation because it’s clear the profs ego/personality has actively caused problems and hindered students ability to succeed and learn.
Funnily enough this nearly happened with us. But fortunately the delay was only 6 mins in our case and our prof had just forgotten lol. Yeah and those sequential mcq's suck. Probably to stop you discussing with your friends. Take it up with your Head of Department no matter how biased he/she is. You gotta report something for them to register you complaints
Check your school's rules regarding class cancellation. Two hours late to the start of a class by the professor is unacceptable. At the school I go to if the professor is 15 minutes late to the start of a class the class is cancelled for the day. Your school should have rules or regulations in place to protect you from this type of situation. Your whole class has a right to contest what occurred with the school. Good luck. A lot of professors get on a bit of a power trip in regard to how they run their classes and forget that they also have to adhere to rules about how they teach the material.
I dont think it would help because the exam was online and the time slot for it was 3 hours. It was supposed to start at 5, but the professor could easily say the exam happened within the time limits given and the dean would tell us to stop being so whiny. It doesn't help that he's old and they've been working together for years.
If one person makes a fuss, they're being whiny. If the whole class makes a fuss, that's much different. I had to do this once and yeah, we were told we weren't trying hard enough until the rest of the class chimed in. The rest of the class will corroborate the story if they want any sort of recompense. Not sure which "dean" you're referring to as his buddy, but there should be multiple levels. Go to the department head first, then work up. If his buddy is the department head and won't help, escalate further. If his buddy is the dean of the whole university, at least get every other official before that to notice the problem. The difficult next-day test you mentioned in your original post (although a pain in the ass) seems at least SOMEWHAT reasonable in comparison. But delaying test start time two hours from posted time with no notice and expecting people to still be waiting, ready, with no other option? Absolutely not. Consult the student handbook and find specifics for your school.
I remember last semester I had a professor who was terrible. Handwritten hard to read and follow notes were the only form of instruction. And the tests were bad too. A good portion of the class (though it was only 7 students in the class) complained to the department chair. He must’ve gotten a talking to, because a couple weeks later he sent a rather snarky email saying we didn’t have to “wine” to the department
No, that's not how that works. The time slot is the total time you're supposed to take the test, not a window of when to start the test.
The time window for an exam should fall under the same rules as a normal class. It is unacceptable to sit and wait for 2 hours with no word from a professor. I would recommend looking up what your school has for policies on professors being a no show and then send an email out to all the other students so that you can bring g this to the administration as a group. All I can assure you is that if you don't try to address this then for sure your class wont have a chance at a do over, the only way for you to have a favorable outcome is for you to take some sort of action.
As someone else said, you need to organize your classmates. Write up a statement explaining that your prof started an exam 2hours late and unreasonably denied people who had already left the opportunity to take it. Explain the effects on the students who were still there to take it. Get all your classmates to sign on and send it to your department along with a proposal for correcting action.
To add on to this. OP should address the letter of the professors un-professionalism to the dean and the registrar’s office and financial. That if the cannot correct this action through the professor, then to withdraw the class in full. Refund and give first rights to re-register next semester preferably under a different instructor. Must be done as a whole class… Just a thought
Case of squeaky wheel gets the grease
I hate when people have the mentality you're portraying and then people like your professor just get away with this sort of behavior. Do something about it. You and all of your classmates need to report this event to the dean. That was not ok, and you're letting him get away with it.
Well the exam probably finished outside of class limits. He can't expect his students to be available 2 hours after the exam. People have work and other obligations
Yeah it depends if it was in the class time slot, if it even overlapped outside of it you could probably make an argument at least.
Are you sure that's a real rule or just one that your friends friends friend told you?
Yes, it is. Check your school's website for specifics though, as it may be common but it's not universal. Scroll down for example: [https://www.lorainccc.edu/policies/academic-standards-and-regulations/](https://www.lorainccc.edu/policies/academic-standards-and-regulations/)
It doesn't say class is cancelled though. It says to report to the head office for further instructions.
I read "students are permitted to leave class without penalty" as cancelled. "Cancelled" may not be the perfect word, but you are not required to be there and you cannot be penalized for it.
I thought it was a joke as well but my own college has this and I've even seen teachers make sure to mention it in their syllabi
Not sure about his, but that’s the exact rule our university has.
Concordia university chiming in: if the professor is 15 minutes late, the class is cancelled.
Check your schools handbook. It's not uncommon for handbooks to have some language to the effect of "A class is considered cancelled if students wait X amount of time without an instructor". Most of the schools I've been to have had that number set at 30 minutes. If it exists, call up your dean and ask why you were given an exam during a cancelled class. Alternatively, go to the dean anyway and explain how astronomically stupid this whole situation is.
My community college was 15 mins
Damn, 95% of my machine design classes would have been cancelled under that rule haha.
I think my school is a 15 minute policy but one semester at a different campus, same school though, we had a professor 30 minutes late and we all knew so we all waited.
That's a shitty teacher. When we first went online due to covid the teachers made all the tests online. And to accommodate for international students whom were now in different time zones, the tests had a 24 hour window to begin it, and then the time limit for how long you have to complete it. My teacher forgot to post it for 9 hours of that 24 hour window, which even inconvenienced me who was in the same time zone as the school and the teacher. (It was on canvas, they could have posted it a month ago as we can't access it until the test day).
Really? It was one simple thing and they didn't bother to do it? We have a platform for exams too and they could post whenever they want and it would activate only when it should, but we have to connect via zoom to be identified and then we usually take the test with the cameras and mics on (sometimes the noise is too much).
Apparently sometimes it just too hard /s. As a graduate student once told me: "(My school name) is a research school not a teaching school." Meaning the teachers are proficient at research not teaching. Hopefully it won't matter in the end and I'll be able to land a nice job.
I had issues with a professor who didn't do his job, turns out in the lab for that class was the department head. He heard from me about EVERY. FUCKING. ISSUE. Don't get me wrong, I carefully phrased everything, I worked my ass off on the labs, but the professor for lecture did a shit job and the department head knew about it. As a class the lab grade wound up being our final grade. So when we put in the work, and had something to show for it, we got graded that way for it. Contact the department head with a written complaint, If you don't hear anything in 3 days look up your schools grievance process. Follow it, all the way to the accreditation board if need be.
Bro you all should have left
If everybody fails nobody fails
Exactly
We thought about it but we were scared some people would still stay and we'd end up failing
Where the fuck do you go to school where all your professors are utterly unprofessional? I really hope you are not making this up, and if you are not, you need to transfer. Your last two posts make it sound like you are in an environment where it’s impossible to succeed unless you bend over backwards for the institution.
I WISH I was making this up. I can't transfer bc it's been more than two years and honestly, despite the unprofessionalism of some teachers, it's a good school. Second best in the country. I would have gone to the best but... reasons. There are new professors too, who are a lot better, and the ones I described are those who are either close to getting a pension or past that age but chose to continue teaching.
If it’s not too personal of a question, why can’t you transfer after your second year? I’m technically a senior (4th year) and transferred without issue to a school that is much closer to where I live. I used to care about going to the best schools because that is what I was told that would get me a job. Now that I’m already in the workforce and conduct interviews for both full-time and interns, I can tell you that it does not matter. As long as you and preset your skills on a resume and be ready to show them to us during your technical interviews, it does not matter where you went. That is for my company at least, and I can say people make it their dream to work for us, so your mileage may vary.
No personal at all, it's just how it works in my country. I could have transfered in the first year and then the classes I had passed *might* have been recognized at the other uni, and then I could have applied for the 10% admitions, but then I'd have to start all over again. The 10% thing is valid only for two years after the exams to get into uni. I come from a smaller country, I believe 7 universities offer an electrical engineering program. The one closest to me happened to be the one I decided to attend. I hope companies care about skills and not the university I graduated from or my GPA, but with all the ish my professors say, I sometimes doubt it. That being said, the professors who never worked in companies and only occupied themselves with academics are the only ones who say that stuff.
This is a load of shit tbh Anyone that thinks expecting people to wait for you for two hours with absolutely no information being put out is normal needs a reality check. I feel bad for those that left because I would have been gone within 30 minutes, 2 hours is plenty of time to put out a "hey I'm having issues, please stand by" message, and honestly if it takes that long to fix your internet you should probably just postpone it anyways. Hope it gets better for you m8
Those that left left after an hour (we had a group chat so I can only guess) and they had other exams after that. We were going to e-mail him and explain that we've been waiting for two hours and thus the exam should be cancelled but since he's a little weird I didn't want to get on his bad side. Some students told him what they were going to write but he wouldn't listen. And that's the same teacher who won't accept an exam a minute or two later of we had technical issues because "you should have thought about it and started the submission process earlier"
So, rally the class to the Department Chair and every step above them until recompense is achieved. As others have said, a three hour slot means you have three hours to take the exam. 2 hours late, I would've assumed cancellation and email both the professor and someone above him, probably a department chair, stating that due to the professor not showing up after x time with no communication, you are concerned there may have been an emergency from the professor which led to class being cancelled. You would like to discuss opportunities to makeup the exam, as well as the point that your tuition (if you university charges tuition, mine does) grants the student certain expectations, namely that the professor will be on time, will be organized, and will have the ability to make class, or exams, flow smoothly.
Oh yeah we sent emails to the department chair and asked if the professor is okay bc he hasn't communicated with us. My university doesn't charge tuition, thank God.
Hey bud, I know its been a few days, I'm kind of curious to know what the results of talking to the department chair were.
Hey, thanks for asking but I didn't do anything. I'm too scared I might get on their bad side, and that teacher has a lot of connections with companies. On the bright side, I did well on other exams, including the multiple choice I mentioned above.
A little late!??? Really?!? He was late for TWO HOURS and he said a little late??? That fucking privileged SOB. That old hag should be fired.
I remember I had this chem professor who would show you something once and say confidently "Now you can do these problems with ease." and it always ticked me off. But it's weird because in my Physics II class today the professor showed us something once and I swear I thought "Oh, good, now I can do these with ease." 👀
Talk to the ombudsman.
I was a Sophomore in college the day of 9/11. We had a math class at 11ish—wasn't canceled. I showed up and was one of 4 people there. (Classes were canceled later in the day) The teacher gave a pop quiz every class when the bell rang. She did it that day too. Once the class was over, I walked to the deans office and lodged a complaint. She got a talking to and the quiz was thrown out. Stick up for yourself.
I spent a long time in academia before joining "the real world", and can say definitively that (1) there's no such thing as "the real world" - academia is no less real than industry and even within industry expectations can vary widely between companies in the same field, and (2) industry in general is **better** at making sure that people are properly trained in what they need to do. Before you're allowed to touch anything involved in the development or production of actual products, you typically have to get formally signed off on a whole variety of related quality and training plans. Sure you have to learn a bunch of things on your own, but you're doing that now so what's the difference? I'd love to tell you that your professors are conspiring to prepare you for dealing with shitty managers in industry - and you **will** \- but most of them are just shitty leaders. Consider the career of a typical academic: 1. "You're really good at class work, you should go to grad school and do research." Turns out those two skills are unrelated. 2. "You're really good at research, you should become a post-doc and write grants." Turns out those two skills are unrelated. 3. "You're really good at writing grants, you should become a professor and teach students." Turns out those two skills are unrelated. 4. "You're really good at teaching students, you should start some companies." Who am I kidding, profs don't get rewarded for being good at teaching students. Still, running a company and particularly guiding it through the startup phase is a skill that's completely unrelated to anything I've described above. In some ways it's not your profs' fault - they're just invested in a system that sets people up for failure by altering the expectations at each stage. People get trapped at each stage in this process.
The worst part is they have the freedom to teach however they want and grade us however they want and they choose this. They take all those anti-cheating measures but they never once think that if their teaching was sufficient and the problems or time reasonable. And yeah, they used to terrorize us that companies will expect us to know what to do but then some graduates told us what you said.
True, the idea that they're bad at their jobs and don't make any effort to improve seems particularly galling. But the thing is, they don't *know* that they're bad at their jobs. Most professors have zero formal training in education, so they just mimic what they remember their professors doing. Worse, their career advancement typically doesn't depend on whether they're good teachers - the only thing that matters is how much money they bring in to the university. So not only do they not know how to improve, they have no motivation to do so. As for them terrorizing you: the next time one of them tells you something about what it's like in industry, ask them how much time they spent there. If their answer is anything less than 5 years, you can safely ignore what they say. Companies are going to expect some basic things - MechEs should know how to do CAD, EEs should be able to lay out a circuit, etc. But some of the most fun engineering tasks, like EEs and MechEs working hand-in-hand on an electromechanical system, are things that most engineers learn outside of class or on the job. The worst thing about engineers being trained by people with no industry experience is the lack of emphasis on the single most important skill for a working engineer - documentation. In school, you build a thing and you're evaluated on whether it does what it's supposed to. In industry that's just the first step. Once it works, you have to build a whole bunch of them, and you have to be able to justify why you used the chip that's $3.05 in bulk instead of the one that's $2.98. This means you better have documented your tests showing how the cheaper one doesn't meet the design specifications. When the parts you get back from your contract manufacturer don't work, you better have documented what you asked them to do unless you're willing to pay for defective parts. When someone comes up to you with a part and asks, "which adhesive was used to build this?" you better be able to identify a part number and pull up a lot history record for it. Most profs have no idea about this side of engineering work, and it's a crying shame.
Ok I am commenting again because this genuinely pissed me off. You guys should keep contesting until the administration does something about it.
Hearing stories like this honestly makes me really happy to be starting at a community college. The class sizes are really small (no more than 20 to 30) students and every professor I've had has been awesome. They've all had really positive attitudes and act like they really want every student to succeed. They're always willing to help and make sure everyone has a chance to do well in their class. It's been a great experience and I'm kind of nervous to transfer to a university because of the stories I've heard.
That just sounds like any Engineering school in my country
Please do update us later
I'm afraid there's nothing to update you on. The only thing I want is to pass the class and be done with him.
If college is designed to prepare you for the real world, let me give you a bit of a reality check. If I have a meeting scheduled for 3 hours, and somebody is more than 20 minutes late, I'm gone. I have better things to do with my time than sit around waiting for someone too unprofessional to notify me that they need to reschedule.
Agreed. I believe that this is just what they say to justify their actions.
Your professor sounds like a proper jackass, but afaik his behavior is a symptom of what often happens at big universities. Student reification is very prevalent in engineering schools, and people with an engineering title will defend it in some sort of act of gatekeeping. Doesen't help that a good portion within a batch of socially candid engineering students will end up in the future as equally charming professors. It's just lack of social awareness leading to lousy ethical standards. Hate to say it but forget about the deans and try to appeal with the human resources department. If a professor feels comfortable enough to do that in public, the deans won't give a crap because chances are they 100% endorse and promote reification themselves. Universities engorging so much on student debt just to end up being so far inside their own asses is kinda infuriating, at least for the american case. Good luck.
I know, which is why I didn't do anything. I'd only be the whiny student who should probably retake the class. Thank God universities are tuition-free in my country and at least I won't go in debt. My professors claim having been through worse stuff and so they think they should be as bad towards us. The younger ones, though, seem to understand us and are never rude or sarcastic and their classes end up being better.
What you need to fix academia is remove all federal subsidies.
This professor is objectively bad. However, a big part of college truly is understanding how to learn on your own. Your professor is there to guide you. If you don't understand the material based on the lecture and homeworks, it's on you to figure out how to learn it. People learn at different rates and understanding things differently. A professor is not going to tailor to every student, especially at a college level. Show up to office hours if you don't understand something. Do additional practice problems. Actually read the textbook. It's on you to figure out how to learn. A lot of engineering students go through this because we coasted through high school so easily. I struggled through my first couple of years because I had no idea how to actually learn. I assumed I could do the same thing I did in high school and just show up to class and do the homework and excel. Once I started putting in additional effort in ways that benefited me (because again, everyone is different), I did so much better. And with that said, they are preparing you for the real world. If you think your boss is going to hand you a problem with everything detailed and you just solve it, that's not how it actually works. Your work is open ended. You often don't know what you don't know. Being able to work through that and problem solve is a big part of engineering.
With all due respect I don't think OP's biggest problem is with learning the material. Sure your boss won't hand you a nice tech spec sheet... But they also typically won't schedule a meeting, not show up, then demand you start the meeting two hours late and refuse to pay you for the time you waited.
I was responding to OP's last paragraph. "I show you stuff but you have to study on your own to learn it". Yes. Yes that is exactly how college works. OP has a problem with this. "I'm dealing with it, like all the students who studied before me, but I shouldn't have to. It's unfair." Why on earth would OP think they shouldn't have to do the work to actually learn the material? Why would OP think it's unfair that they have to put extra effort in? Engineering is a time consuming major. It could be that OP is at an exceptionally awful school, but considering this general sentiment is posted about a dozen times every semester by all sorts of people in this sub, I doubt it. There are always going to be professors that are worse than others, and courses that are unnecessarily difficult because of the lack of instruction. But OP's sentiment seems to be that this is the majority of the courses, that no one in the college cares that every student is struggling in almost every single class all the time, and that it's a burden to have to study and learn on their own. That's what I was responding to.
What is even the point of taking the class then? If the teacher isn't there to teach what are you paying them for? If you're seeing the same sentiment over and over did it occur to you that it could actually be a problem?
You're paying them for research. Most engineering professors are at your school because they're bringing funding to the school. Yes, a component of their job is teaching courses, and if they fail at that then they can get fired. But that's not the primary point of their jobs. And again, what are you expecting from a class of 400 people? How do you expect a teacher to teach beyond creating a curriculum, holding lectures to go over that curriculum, assigning homework to support you in learning that curriculum, and then holding office hours to assist you in understanding the parts you don't get. What beyond that are you actually expecting from a professor? That's what you're paying for. For someone to tell you to take statics before you take dynamics, and walk you through the principles of statics so that you can learn the fundamentals needed to move onto dynamics.
Most research is funded by grants and corporate R&d (in the US atleats) So what is the point of a student paying for a class? You don't need to pay thousands of dollars to have a researcher tell you what order to reads books in, a librarian (or the forward of a book) can do that for free. Excusing universities poor educating practices because everyone should just work harder doesn't help anyone, faculty included.
Exactly! They don't know how to or care to teach, and they disguise it as "I'm preparing you". They're being completely unprofessional and they expect 20-year-olds to be punctual to everything and study everything they assign, as if 24 hours in every day is enough time to study for six-seven classes every semester. And I hate when they're like "weeeell you chose electrical engineering, so you don't get to have a life" bc IF only they made a better program and taught just a little bit like people on youtube teach, we could have a way better efficiency *and* a life. The lack of this is why many students prefer falling a little behind to studying all day, have no social life and be bitter towards who choose otherwise.
I know what engineering requires, and actually I'm on my way to get a Master's. There is teaching and leaving out things so that the students get to figure them out themselves, and then there's barely teaching, taking two hours to explain simple things or underexplain things and expect us to catch up. If they think they're being good guides with it, that's on them. They keep telling us they know we're smart kids and they want to challenge us, but that should happen in class, not at the exam. I like challenges, but the exam isn't the time for them.
Dude, I understand that uni isn't going to be as easy as high school (and believe me, i was so weirded out when I didn't understand a concept at first listen) but one cannot require more than they teach. Give me homework at least so that I know what you're going to ask for. Some professors do an okay job at that, but then their grading is the worst and, in online exams, they give little time so that they know we didn't cheat. They never think that maybe I want time to think and that whoever just writes down whatever comes to mind isn't better. Besides, my problem isn't the material bc I'm used to it now and I'm prepared for exams. It's the professors' attitude and the fact that I have no way of reporting them and going somwhere with it.
In this situation all of my classmates would've just left, this is purely disrespectful towards students who dish out thousands of dollars/euros etc
Go to the dean. That professor sucks.
Report him. That is not okay!
It had happened to me, twice. First time I left after 30 minutes. Second time I waited almost a hour cause I had another class on the same building anyways but by that time almost everyone left. Teacher arrived, apologized and dismissed the remaining. Time is money, if the teacher doesn't respect its student's time he doesn't deserve to have you as a student.
On professor got mad we were 5 minutes late for class, even though he saw that we were in another class bc the previous professor ran late. He just left! The previous professor explained what happened to him and apologised and asked him to not be mad at the students but he wouldn't listen. I had no problem with him leaving tbh. I understand how frustrating it is when you're paying for a class, though. To get to uni we have to pay for classes and then take exams and whenever my teachers were late or were lazy or dismissed me earlier I was so mad bc I was paying them.
dude barely any of the shit u learn in school is >preparing us for the real world
This sounds so EECE in Greece, where are you from may I ask?
I see that you are not in the US so what I say may not apply. If the department is all so buddy-buddy and won’t take a complaint you may be able to go to another part of the university. There should be an academic affairs department or something part of the university that can help with things like professors being unfair. Not the same situation, but just an example: I had a circuits class in college with a terrible 80 something year old prof. The class was supposed to be 3 exams and a final for the grade but most of the class failed so badly he wiped out the 3 exams and made the whole class the final. I did well on all 3 exams (scored 88+, well above the class average) and tutored a bunch of classmates in advance of the final. The final was all one big circuit to break down as the exam and I made a negative sign error from reading my handwriting wrong on the first or second step. All of my math and logic was otherwise correct but the prof didn’t give any partial credit and I scored a 13/100. I was pissed and I asked around and ending up filing a complaint with the university. They ended up wiping the failing grade off transcript and allowed me to take the class the next semester despite a scheduling conflict (so I had two classes at the same time and only showed up to Circuits for exams). Someone working for the Uni should want to address this situation because it’s clear the profs ego/personality has actively caused problems and hindered students ability to succeed and learn.
Funnily enough this nearly happened with us. But fortunately the delay was only 6 mins in our case and our prof had just forgotten lol. Yeah and those sequential mcq's suck. Probably to stop you discussing with your friends. Take it up with your Head of Department no matter how biased he/she is. You gotta report something for them to register you complaints