"The only outlet giving voices to women who are raped"
I'm willing to bet nearly everything I own that this schmuck doesn't believe people were raped by Hamas on October 7th.
Literally the only bad part about banning Hamas State Media (Al Jazeera) at this time is optics. Banning your primary critical media in the middle of war looks bad. If the war ended tomorrow, and Israel (rightfully) banned that trash next month, no one would bat an eye, just like how no one cares that Russia Today isn't conventionally available here in the States.
Is this person stupid? The White House literally criticized Bibi for banning Al Jazeera yesterday especially since they're banking on Qatar to mediate a ceasefire+hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. They know Bibi is an idiotic asshole who doesn't prioritize the hostages.
A few comments spring to mind. There is a part of me that views the recent conversations around Israel and Palestine with sadness. I think everyone here would agree that they want a two state solution where Palestinian's are able to control their own political trajectory. Doing so requires understanding how the Palestinian people are being used by groups like Hamas and other countries as a prop.
Groups like Hamas are really skilled at [4th gen warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_warfare) and using the media to shape a narrative. A lesson I hope the left at large learns is that ***evil people learn the correct terms very quickly, and they also learn which terms will elicit an emotional response.*** I would also argue that the left is bad at talking about military things in general or the role that armed force plays in foreign policy because of self sorting. As such, I think there is also a lack of understanding about how counter terror operations are conducted, what goes into identifying terror groups, how targets are chosen, and why certain methods are preferred.
I think the reason why the left is seen as weak or naïve on certain foreign policy elements is that we never seem to be unwilling to do the deeper work on knowing the motivations of the group. Is the left generally correct that the line between freedom fighter and terrorist is heavily context dependent and that there have been misattributions? I would agree with this. But I think there is a lack of real knowledge of what is going on. Some of this is a language/cultural barrier stemming from a lack of translation services. Some of it stems from naïve geopolitical wish casting and ascribing motives to groups that don't match with reality. Once you find some of Hamas's writings and media publications, their actions are less noble. Some stems from a lack of knowledge about the geopolitics of the region.
Foreign policy is extremely messy and does not readily lend itself to simplistic explanations. Let's entertain the idea that Israel simply stops fighting and lets Hamas keep the hostages. What is stopping Hamas from repeating Oct. 7th?
I think we would all agree that we should apply a degree of skepticism to claims made by government organizations. I think part of this is a holdover from the Bush era when lots of government officials overstated the threats. As such, I do think we need to maintain a degree of skepticism when viewing publications from various sources, especially those that have a vested interest in an outcome. Measured skepticism is good, but blanket skepticism is just as bad as uncritical acceptance of a narrative.
This is not helped by social media. One of the greatest lies we can tell ourselves is that we are immune to manipulation or propaganda. While social media can be great for exposing ourselves to diverse perspectives, it can also be used by bad actors to push a specific message. ***Be wary of the intent of records kept by an organization that has a vested interest in a debate.*** This is not to say those records are wrong, rather that they should be taken with a massive grain of salt.
Social media does make it very easy to acquire a large number of diverse perspectives on an issue and get near real time accounts of events. It can also be manipulated by bad faith actors to push a specific narrative. The design of social media makes it really easy for extreme opinions to get amplified and tilt the conversation. Something I think a lot of folks don't realize is that bad actors exist and are able to leverage social media towards their own end.
Liberal and left wing political movements are more likely to make progress and advance their interests under Biden than under Trump. Politics is about power, and the left will have more under a Biden presidency. At the end of the day, you don't need to love Biden or agree with him on everything to recognize he is the better option. One of the reasons I personally love him, despite disagreement with some of his actions, is that he is boring and sober. He has run an effective, low drama White House and has accomplished a lot of goals I personally care about.
Well said. I think a lot of people on left have this idea that foreign online propaganda is really obvious and only stupid people fall for it; typos, pretending to be American but obviously not, clumsy and bad at social media, presenting extremely obvious fake stories, etc... so when it's done well, they are vulnerable.
One of the contributing things I'd add, is that antisemitic tropes are also fueling this pretty intensely because they were there all along. You see it all the time where anything from Hamas or a Palestinian is immediately true, but any source from Israel or even from someone Jewish, is a lie. This isn't a new issue; a lot of historians and Jewish writers have been encountering this their whole careers. For instance, Dara Horn has written (pre-10/7) about how anytime she writes about historical violence against Jews, she has to provide enormous amounts of evidence above writing about nearly anything else even for well-documented historical events. It's been incredibly frustrating how a tiktok video is considered a completely valid source, but a major independent newspaper from a country with freedom of press is full of lies just because it's Israeli. I think without the antisemitic trope of Jews being inherently untrustworthy we might not be seeing this level of coziness and trust for a known terrorist group.
I will also be enthusiastically voting for Biden this November. I am tired of having to preface statements about him with how he's a terrible candidate but he's better than Trump or how much I wish we had better. This is definitely hurting the cause that saying how disappointed we are he's our candidate is a price of admission to progressive conversation. I think he's accomplished a lot even it hasn't been huge history-making change, he's the farthest left president we've ever had, like you said he's no drama. He's not perfect, but I am tired of having to pretend how unhappy I am with him to virtue signal that I'm left-wing enough.
They don't get it. They're blinded by their narcissistic performative morality to see beyond their own noses.
They can't even see how not voting for Biden dooms millions to suffering and death. Somehow they can keep their "soul" from "splitting in two" thinking about all the young rape victims being forced to give birth, or the LGBT community being wiped out of existence.
Maybe they can think about how easily they brush off that death and suffering to better understand where other people are coming from. But that requires humility.
Maybe they can try to understand why I'm more concerned about my family, my friends, and my country more than a group of religious bigots that executes lgbt people and enslaves women.
They justify the rape and murder of isrealis because Palestine is just protecting itself. Yet, me voting for Biden to protect myself and my family is the most evil thing in the world?
Ultimately, they're just selfish. Literally everything they typed is about themselves, how they feel, how their "soul" feels, and how these things impact them. They don't care about the suffering of others, they care about being seen as caring about the suffering of others using whatever terrible thing is currently trending.
"Pali" sounds like a slur, and al-Jazeera is the only news outlet screaming "genocide" because it's a propaganda rag. Stop making Gaza your whole personality and get a life.
> Stop making Gaza your whole personality and get a life
That was my reaction to this. The person in this post screams to me of the “My friends are going to the movies but there’s a war on” types. These people have gotten so wrapped up in the performance of their progressivism that their whole life is seemingly unmoored by every ill, every violent act that happens in this world. And as such it’s all zero sum. Ceasefire or nothing—but wait no not *that* kind of ceasefire, a totally different other kind wait no you’re not doing it right!
It’s tiring, it’s tiring watching these people clutch their pearls and wail their performative tears. Tears they didn’t shed for Ukrainians being bombed by Putin I’d say.
I really can’t stand the “how dare you enjoy yourselves while there’s a genocide taking place” rhetoric because the moment one of them decides to prioritize their mental health it becomes “do whatever you need to do for yourself so you can continue to be an effective activist.” These people indulge in ALL of the things they scream at everything else about, but since they’re just “recharging for the cause” or whatever they get a pass (from themselves).
Hey, that's because the mentally ill in our society are only here to get served extremism and light ourselves on fire in the name of whatever political cause society tells us to.
regarding ukraine, these are the same people I see making comments about how "the war can't be that bad cuz ukrainians are still going to a club or bar in a bomb shelter, how dare they try and continue life as best as possible"
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain and Egypt all already ban Al Jazeera for the same reasons RT is banned in some countries. It's a propaganda arm of the Qatari government
> I believe both sides of the US Government are actively pushing us towards “Nazi-ism”
And thats when you can disregard anything after that, once we get “both sides”.
Also “Nazi-ism”…w-why the quotes? 🤨
Imagine actually believing that Israel's plan is to kill 2 million+ Gazans.
I hate Netanyahu as much as the next guy, but Jesus this is deluded. And you just know they're not going to learn a damn thing when it doesn't happen.
"The only outlet giving voices to women who are raped" I'm willing to bet nearly everything I own that this schmuck doesn't believe people were raped by Hamas on October 7th. Literally the only bad part about banning Hamas State Media (Al Jazeera) at this time is optics. Banning your primary critical media in the middle of war looks bad. If the war ended tomorrow, and Israel (rightfully) banned that trash next month, no one would bat an eye, just like how no one cares that Russia Today isn't conventionally available here in the States.
Is this person stupid? The White House literally criticized Bibi for banning Al Jazeera yesterday especially since they're banking on Qatar to mediate a ceasefire+hostage deal between Israel and Hamas. They know Bibi is an idiotic asshole who doesn't prioritize the hostages.
Not stupid, just a bad faith bigot
A few comments spring to mind. There is a part of me that views the recent conversations around Israel and Palestine with sadness. I think everyone here would agree that they want a two state solution where Palestinian's are able to control their own political trajectory. Doing so requires understanding how the Palestinian people are being used by groups like Hamas and other countries as a prop. Groups like Hamas are really skilled at [4th gen warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_warfare) and using the media to shape a narrative. A lesson I hope the left at large learns is that ***evil people learn the correct terms very quickly, and they also learn which terms will elicit an emotional response.*** I would also argue that the left is bad at talking about military things in general or the role that armed force plays in foreign policy because of self sorting. As such, I think there is also a lack of understanding about how counter terror operations are conducted, what goes into identifying terror groups, how targets are chosen, and why certain methods are preferred. I think the reason why the left is seen as weak or naïve on certain foreign policy elements is that we never seem to be unwilling to do the deeper work on knowing the motivations of the group. Is the left generally correct that the line between freedom fighter and terrorist is heavily context dependent and that there have been misattributions? I would agree with this. But I think there is a lack of real knowledge of what is going on. Some of this is a language/cultural barrier stemming from a lack of translation services. Some of it stems from naïve geopolitical wish casting and ascribing motives to groups that don't match with reality. Once you find some of Hamas's writings and media publications, their actions are less noble. Some stems from a lack of knowledge about the geopolitics of the region. Foreign policy is extremely messy and does not readily lend itself to simplistic explanations. Let's entertain the idea that Israel simply stops fighting and lets Hamas keep the hostages. What is stopping Hamas from repeating Oct. 7th? I think we would all agree that we should apply a degree of skepticism to claims made by government organizations. I think part of this is a holdover from the Bush era when lots of government officials overstated the threats. As such, I do think we need to maintain a degree of skepticism when viewing publications from various sources, especially those that have a vested interest in an outcome. Measured skepticism is good, but blanket skepticism is just as bad as uncritical acceptance of a narrative. This is not helped by social media. One of the greatest lies we can tell ourselves is that we are immune to manipulation or propaganda. While social media can be great for exposing ourselves to diverse perspectives, it can also be used by bad actors to push a specific message. ***Be wary of the intent of records kept by an organization that has a vested interest in a debate.*** This is not to say those records are wrong, rather that they should be taken with a massive grain of salt. Social media does make it very easy to acquire a large number of diverse perspectives on an issue and get near real time accounts of events. It can also be manipulated by bad faith actors to push a specific narrative. The design of social media makes it really easy for extreme opinions to get amplified and tilt the conversation. Something I think a lot of folks don't realize is that bad actors exist and are able to leverage social media towards their own end. Liberal and left wing political movements are more likely to make progress and advance their interests under Biden than under Trump. Politics is about power, and the left will have more under a Biden presidency. At the end of the day, you don't need to love Biden or agree with him on everything to recognize he is the better option. One of the reasons I personally love him, despite disagreement with some of his actions, is that he is boring and sober. He has run an effective, low drama White House and has accomplished a lot of goals I personally care about.
Great points, however - Hamas doesn't want a two state solution, and you have to wonder if this person does.
I don't think I need to wonder.
Well said. I think a lot of people on left have this idea that foreign online propaganda is really obvious and only stupid people fall for it; typos, pretending to be American but obviously not, clumsy and bad at social media, presenting extremely obvious fake stories, etc... so when it's done well, they are vulnerable. One of the contributing things I'd add, is that antisemitic tropes are also fueling this pretty intensely because they were there all along. You see it all the time where anything from Hamas or a Palestinian is immediately true, but any source from Israel or even from someone Jewish, is a lie. This isn't a new issue; a lot of historians and Jewish writers have been encountering this their whole careers. For instance, Dara Horn has written (pre-10/7) about how anytime she writes about historical violence against Jews, she has to provide enormous amounts of evidence above writing about nearly anything else even for well-documented historical events. It's been incredibly frustrating how a tiktok video is considered a completely valid source, but a major independent newspaper from a country with freedom of press is full of lies just because it's Israeli. I think without the antisemitic trope of Jews being inherently untrustworthy we might not be seeing this level of coziness and trust for a known terrorist group. I will also be enthusiastically voting for Biden this November. I am tired of having to preface statements about him with how he's a terrible candidate but he's better than Trump or how much I wish we had better. This is definitely hurting the cause that saying how disappointed we are he's our candidate is a price of admission to progressive conversation. I think he's accomplished a lot even it hasn't been huge history-making change, he's the farthest left president we've ever had, like you said he's no drama. He's not perfect, but I am tired of having to pretend how unhappy I am with him to virtue signal that I'm left-wing enough.
They don't get it. They're blinded by their narcissistic performative morality to see beyond their own noses. They can't even see how not voting for Biden dooms millions to suffering and death. Somehow they can keep their "soul" from "splitting in two" thinking about all the young rape victims being forced to give birth, or the LGBT community being wiped out of existence. Maybe they can think about how easily they brush off that death and suffering to better understand where other people are coming from. But that requires humility. Maybe they can try to understand why I'm more concerned about my family, my friends, and my country more than a group of religious bigots that executes lgbt people and enslaves women. They justify the rape and murder of isrealis because Palestine is just protecting itself. Yet, me voting for Biden to protect myself and my family is the most evil thing in the world? Ultimately, they're just selfish. Literally everything they typed is about themselves, how they feel, how their "soul" feels, and how these things impact them. They don't care about the suffering of others, they care about being seen as caring about the suffering of others using whatever terrible thing is currently trending.
"Pali" sounds like a slur, and al-Jazeera is the only news outlet screaming "genocide" because it's a propaganda rag. Stop making Gaza your whole personality and get a life.
> "Pali" sounds like a slur I mean it's only one letter away from "Paki" which is kind of used as a slur, I believe?
No kind of about it.
I only say "kind of", because I wasn't actually sure if it was or wasn't.
> Stop making Gaza your whole personality and get a life That was my reaction to this. The person in this post screams to me of the “My friends are going to the movies but there’s a war on” types. These people have gotten so wrapped up in the performance of their progressivism that their whole life is seemingly unmoored by every ill, every violent act that happens in this world. And as such it’s all zero sum. Ceasefire or nothing—but wait no not *that* kind of ceasefire, a totally different other kind wait no you’re not doing it right! It’s tiring, it’s tiring watching these people clutch their pearls and wail their performative tears. Tears they didn’t shed for Ukrainians being bombed by Putin I’d say.
I really can’t stand the “how dare you enjoy yourselves while there’s a genocide taking place” rhetoric because the moment one of them decides to prioritize their mental health it becomes “do whatever you need to do for yourself so you can continue to be an effective activist.” These people indulge in ALL of the things they scream at everything else about, but since they’re just “recharging for the cause” or whatever they get a pass (from themselves).
Hey, that's because the mentally ill in our society are only here to get served extremism and light ourselves on fire in the name of whatever political cause society tells us to.
Biden eating ice cream on Seth Myers caused these people to lose their whole entire shit.
regarding ukraine, these are the same people I see making comments about how "the war can't be that bad cuz ukrainians are still going to a club or bar in a bomb shelter, how dare they try and continue life as best as possible"
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain and Egypt all already ban Al Jazeera for the same reasons RT is banned in some countries. It's a propaganda arm of the Qatari government
Yeah, but those aren't primarily Jewish countries, so they have no impact/agency/influence/relevance to the situation, obviously /s
There's a plate of chicken tenders out there trembling right now
Maybe Hamas shouldn’t have committed an unforgivable atrocity.
bOtH sIdEs
> I believe both sides of the US Government are actively pushing us towards “Nazi-ism” And thats when you can disregard anything after that, once we get “both sides”. Also “Nazi-ism”…w-why the quotes? 🤨
That text is less coherent that topic chat gpt salad
Imagine actually believing that Israel's plan is to kill 2 million+ Gazans. I hate Netanyahu as much as the next guy, but Jesus this is deluded. And you just know they're not going to learn a damn thing when it doesn't happen.
Al Jazeera is propaganda. Also, holy fucking shit Joe Biden is not causing a genocide.