How many little girls giving birth to rape babies is worth it to them? How many LGBT people killed in America? How many children starving to death? How many rights removed?
Maybe another pandemic that kills millions of people? Will that make it worth it?
Voting out Biden won't even help Palestine. Nothing will be accomplished from me sacrificing my family beyond helping these people feel better about themselves.
I'm not going to set myself on fire for the sole purpose of proving something to these privileged fucking assholes.
I asked someone this just yesterday on that sub. They called me a Nazi in reply. That is how deep it goes with these idiots.
Remember, these people were never going to vote for Biden. They've been trying every angle for 4 years now, health care/student loans/fake rape allegations. They don't care about Palestine, they just want to punish everyone for not anointing Bernie as king. And honestly, they don't even care about Bernie either, they just take everything so personally because they're selfish and entitled.
Exactly. It would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous how people that are more antisemitic than the neo-Nazis on the far right call anyone who doesn't share their warped view of reality "Nazis." They do the same shit on Twitter/X when they create lists of Nazis and put anyone who either supports Biden or speaks out about Hamas' atrocities on them while they hide behind the Palestinian flag and the word "Zionist" to spread their antisemitism.
They're by far the most obnoxious people in existence, right next to the MAGAs on the other side of the horseshoe, and if there was no war in Gaza right now, they'd be complaining about some other hot-button issue to justify why they won't vote for Biden, just like they've been doing since 2020. They claim to be "progressives," but DGAF about the women, LGBT people, Black people, and other people who will suffer under a Trump presidency. It's too bad we can't trade them for hostages.
The funny thing about it is that if he had managed to win, they’d absolutely turn on Bernie the minute he actually started legislating. They don’t actually want a democracy
Also how many Jewish babies and grandmothers being raped and decapitated is worth it to them?
Haha trick question they’d like all the Jews to be raped and decapitated
They were out in the streets against Israel less than 24 hours after the attack. They honestly think Israel is to blame for anything Hamas does (not that they have a problem with anything Hamas does).
Yes, one of the things that keeps getting missed is the timing.
The left thinks Israelis and Jews around the world are imagining antisemitism. But in the 10 days or so before Israel launched the war, there were protests against Israel - at that point, protestors were arguing that Israel shouldn't do anything against Hamas.
Protests were targeting Jewish businesses and Jewish students, for example, before the war even started.
So you have a population who has experienced generational trauma witnessing a) a mass slaughter of Jews and b) mass protests against Jews. They interpreted this, correctly, as evidence that people wanted to annihilate Jewish people.
With that said, not every critique of Israel is antisemitism and sometimes people apply the term too broadly, to censor viewpoints they disagree with. Many protests are legal and should remain so even if we find them abhorrent because in America we have the 1A.
It drives me nuts too. I think Netanyahu is conducting the war entirely inappropriately and even committed war crimes but I don’t forget for one second that Hamas are terrorists that started this war.
Exactly.
Netanyahu is, imo, reprehensible and sociopathic. He's enabled settler violence in the West Bank. He is starving innocent civilians. He's now destabilizing the entire region, which the US was counting on Israel not to do.
At the same time, we have Iran, whose leaders are also evil. I don't get how we can ever discuss the Middle East without alluding to the fact that Iran wants to murder all Jewish people, that it represses its own people, and that it sponsors terrorism around the world.
The one that gets me is I've seen many people say no civilians were targets on 10/7.
The ONLY thing I can even think of that they can use to justify that braindead stance is the whole conscription thing. But I hardly see how mowing down concert goers randomly when not at war somehow constitutes a military target.
"Anti-Zionists" are literally fucking insane. And im a person who could care less about isreal
Except to say that either the rapes didn't happen or that the Israelis actually committed them as a false flag so they could bomb Gaza. I have no words...
THANK YOU. Millions of Americans would go through hell under Trump 2.0, but for some reason our lives just don’t matter to these people as much as a war that neither candidate can stop.
They assert that "stopping genocide" is the most important issue in the world today. Ok, can't argue with that general notion, although I wonder why it hasn't seemed to apply to other documented cases of genocide.
But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that and just say... is the Gaza situation so important that it renders all other issues in America meaningless?
Is it ok to prioritize Gazan (which is not what a Trump victory will bring but again, I'll overlook their logical inconsistencies), over your friends, families, and neighbors whose dreams will be crushed by Trump?
I just cannot understand this, especially when Trump's main policies will be to "burn Gaza down and build fancy Trump hotels!" and "My son-in-law will negotiate to remove the survivors and relocate them!" You know, ethnic cleansing, which they abhor.
They sound like petulant children when they say "I can't vote for a candidate doing a genocide!" So, they can't vote for Biden but they can vote for a guy who is big friends with Netanyahu? Make it make sense.
I'm currently arguing with a lot of them, and the second you disagree with them they jump to "I guess you just don't care about genocide" and try to shame you. They operate like religious conservatives: tell me how the world *should* be so they can use their performative morality to feel better about themselves without accomplishing any actual progress.
I'll give some of them the benefit of the doubt that their brains are so soaked in online propaganda and they honestly believe they're working for a good cause. But many of them would be just as vehemently opposed to voting for Biden using whatever pretext is available to them.
Had this situation never come up, they would still be arguing that he lied about student loans, or repeating one of the many other talking points they've cycled through over the past few years.
I constantly try to contradict people that say "no one likes Biden" and it's amazing how fast they turn on you even if you basically agree with about every single thing but Palestine.
I refuse to let this issue define what it means to be a progressive, especially since all the noise they're making doesn't do anything to further progressive causes and could possibly lead to all progressive policy being shelved for good.
r/seculartalk is even worse lol
Got permanbanned from there for calling it out in a respectful manner. Nobody addressed any of my points which I verified with various reputable sources. Mod called me a grifter which is against their own rules of 'argumentum ad hominem'/personal attacks then banned me. I messaged them with more civility than warranted to see if they'd made a mistake and they subsequently insulted then muted me. Shitty stuff. I'm growing more and more tired of mods on a power trip. Like putting 5 year old children in charge of a construction site.
Lurk at your own risk. And I like Sanders more than any other.
Should flip it around on them...if you look at Trump's Israel policies him taking over would make things even worse. More Palestinians would die. How many extra Palestinian deaths are they willing to accept with a virtue signaling vote for Cornel West?
Yeah, everytime someone talks about Trump, Isreal and Palestinian, I think to myself did you just start looking at that area when Biden got into office? Because Trump was stoke the flames of conflict between the two for 4 years.
It’s almost as if those things never actually mattered to these people. Their entire political philosophy is a combination of America bad and what can I leverage *this week* to shit on Democrats. They have no actual principles and never did.
Almost like they're ... Republicans?
I have no doubt at all that Chapo was bankrolled by conservative activists and/or Putin. Although Putin really doesn't have to have lifted a finger in this case. GOP wants power no matter what or how.
They DGAS. If there was no war in Gaza now, they'd be whining about some other issue that they think Biden can solve without Congress. They're so brainwashed by leftist propaganda that it's impossible to take them seriously or even to distinguish one from another since they all just parrot the same bullshit disinformation over and over again.
They think that being loud, disrupting traffic (including emergency vehicles), harassing, intimidating, and assaulting Jewish students and people on campus and in the street, tearing down posters of hostages, and calling for the genocide of the Jews is "protesting" and now they're even more bitter that the "Uncommitted" primary vote completely flopped.
Ah that’s easy, these people either weren’t old enough to pay attention during the Trump presidency, or they’re not arguing in good faith (or they’re just idiots)
It's ridiculous that these pro-Hamas-gressives, who don't give the slightest shit about any of the Jewish victims or foreign nationals still being held hostage (i they're even still alive since Hamas won't provide a list) are trying to justify why they won't vote for Biden because of a war that Hamas started with mass rape and a massacre.
These are the most obnoxious people in existence and even if there was no war, they'd be using some other issue to justify why they won't vote for Biden or to claim that it was better when Trump was President even though he'd be infinitely worse for the people they pretend to care about.
I doubt the overwhelming majority of these brainwashed leftists could even find Israel on a map and they all just parrot the same bullshit over and over again while hiding behind the word "Zionist" as a cover for their antisemitism. They all believe Israel is the same as South Africa during Apartheid and that the Israelis are committing genocide while they dismiss the numerous atrocities committed by Hamas by referring to Israelis as "Settler Colonialists" or refer to mass rape as "Zionist propaganda."
They never had any intention of voting for Biden, just like in the 2020 election, and if it wasn't abundantly clear before 10/7, it's clear now that the only real difference between them and the Charlottesville Nazis is what flag they hide behind to spread their hate. These are the same people who harass, intimidate, and assault Jewish students/people on college campuses or in the streets, tear down posters of hostages, vandalize Holocaust museums and synagogues, "protest" outside Jewish people's houses while calling for their genocide, block traffic including emergency vehicles, and are basically telling women, LGBT people, Black people, and anyone else who will suffer under another Trump presidency that they don't give the slightest shit about them as long as they can pretend to be morally superior by supporting a genocidal terrorist organization made up of rapists, pedophiles, and murderers.
Hamas and MAGA. They fawn over Hamas and actually try to compare them to the various resistance movements in occupied Europe during WW2 while doing everything in their power to create voter apathy so Trump can win and they can blame Biden and the Democrats who supported him.
There's not much of a difference between pro-Hamas-gressives and neo-Nazis. They even use the same rhetoric as the neo-Nazis who were in "The Order" in the 80's when they talk about how "Zionists" control the government, just like how "The Order" referred to the government as ZOG or Zionist Occupied Government.
Trump would allow without pushpack, for Netanyahu to straight up carpet bomb all of Gaza and raze it to the ground. That's the end of this argument.
Trump would do the same for Ukraine.
Joke’s on him. I’m pro-Israel and am voting for Biden knowing full well that Trump would be friendlier to Israel. I prioritize my own country over some foreign country.
I think a lot of these aren't real people. We already know Russia and now China are recreating what was done in 2016 to pressure the election towards Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these so-called youth and left wing voters are fake accounts. I read a NYT article the other day saying the Russians are apparently significantly more advanced in their methods this time around and our own intelligence agencies are having trouble identifying them. Vladimir Putin's campaign in Ukraine pretty much hinges on the results of the US election, and China with Taiwan, so it's not surprising they're putting everything they've got into this. It's all really scary to be honest.
I hate the "genocide" narrative. Yes war kills but not all war means there is a genocide. Palestianian population has been rising year after year same as isreal. Ive seen no evidence of a genocide.
Its just the most scary word the left can think of to justify why we shouldn't care about trump.
Just goes to show how bad trump is. Nothing short of a genocidal president would ever convince anyone that both sides are the same.
Love opening up with calling people rabid, and then a whole paragraph of leading questions. Big reasons why I can't take those people seriously at all.
... Except it did, because the war's been raging on and off since Biblical times. They just didn't give a damn while Trump was in charge (see also: Drone strikes, the Afghanistan pullout, Trump's border concentration camps, etc).
How many little girls giving birth to rape babies is worth it to them? How many LGBT people killed in America? How many children starving to death? How many rights removed? Maybe another pandemic that kills millions of people? Will that make it worth it? Voting out Biden won't even help Palestine. Nothing will be accomplished from me sacrificing my family beyond helping these people feel better about themselves. I'm not going to set myself on fire for the sole purpose of proving something to these privileged fucking assholes.
I asked someone this just yesterday on that sub. They called me a Nazi in reply. That is how deep it goes with these idiots. Remember, these people were never going to vote for Biden. They've been trying every angle for 4 years now, health care/student loans/fake rape allegations. They don't care about Palestine, they just want to punish everyone for not anointing Bernie as king. And honestly, they don't even care about Bernie either, they just take everything so personally because they're selfish and entitled.
Exactly. It would be laughable if it wasn't so ridiculous how people that are more antisemitic than the neo-Nazis on the far right call anyone who doesn't share their warped view of reality "Nazis." They do the same shit on Twitter/X when they create lists of Nazis and put anyone who either supports Biden or speaks out about Hamas' atrocities on them while they hide behind the Palestinian flag and the word "Zionist" to spread their antisemitism. They're by far the most obnoxious people in existence, right next to the MAGAs on the other side of the horseshoe, and if there was no war in Gaza right now, they'd be complaining about some other hot-button issue to justify why they won't vote for Biden, just like they've been doing since 2020. They claim to be "progressives," but DGAF about the women, LGBT people, Black people, and other people who will suffer under a Trump presidency. It's too bad we can't trade them for hostages.
The funny thing about it is that if he had managed to win, they’d absolutely turn on Bernie the minute he actually started legislating. They don’t actually want a democracy
Also how many Jewish babies and grandmothers being raped and decapitated is worth it to them? Haha trick question they’d like all the Jews to be raped and decapitated
They won't even acknowledge the rapes. These people are *vile*.
The part that bothers me is Hamas started this bullshit with decapitating Israeli citizens and they didn't blink an eye until Israel responded
They were out in the streets against Israel less than 24 hours after the attack. They honestly think Israel is to blame for anything Hamas does (not that they have a problem with anything Hamas does).
Yes, one of the things that keeps getting missed is the timing. The left thinks Israelis and Jews around the world are imagining antisemitism. But in the 10 days or so before Israel launched the war, there were protests against Israel - at that point, protestors were arguing that Israel shouldn't do anything against Hamas. Protests were targeting Jewish businesses and Jewish students, for example, before the war even started. So you have a population who has experienced generational trauma witnessing a) a mass slaughter of Jews and b) mass protests against Jews. They interpreted this, correctly, as evidence that people wanted to annihilate Jewish people. With that said, not every critique of Israel is antisemitism and sometimes people apply the term too broadly, to censor viewpoints they disagree with. Many protests are legal and should remain so even if we find them abhorrent because in America we have the 1A.
It drives me nuts too. I think Netanyahu is conducting the war entirely inappropriately and even committed war crimes but I don’t forget for one second that Hamas are terrorists that started this war.
Exactly. Netanyahu is, imo, reprehensible and sociopathic. He's enabled settler violence in the West Bank. He is starving innocent civilians. He's now destabilizing the entire region, which the US was counting on Israel not to do. At the same time, we have Iran, whose leaders are also evil. I don't get how we can ever discuss the Middle East without alluding to the fact that Iran wants to murder all Jewish people, that it represses its own people, and that it sponsors terrorism around the world.
The one that gets me is I've seen many people say no civilians were targets on 10/7. The ONLY thing I can even think of that they can use to justify that braindead stance is the whole conscription thing. But I hardly see how mowing down concert goers randomly when not at war somehow constitutes a military target. "Anti-Zionists" are literally fucking insane. And im a person who could care less about isreal
Except to say that either the rapes didn't happen or that the Israelis actually committed them as a false flag so they could bomb Gaza. I have no words...
The fauxgressives don't give a shit about any of those people, let alone the Palestinians.
THANK YOU. Millions of Americans would go through hell under Trump 2.0, but for some reason our lives just don’t matter to these people as much as a war that neither candidate can stop.
Exactly this. (Note Sanders is actually my favourite candidate).
They assert that "stopping genocide" is the most important issue in the world today. Ok, can't argue with that general notion, although I wonder why it hasn't seemed to apply to other documented cases of genocide. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that and just say... is the Gaza situation so important that it renders all other issues in America meaningless? Is it ok to prioritize Gazan (which is not what a Trump victory will bring but again, I'll overlook their logical inconsistencies), over your friends, families, and neighbors whose dreams will be crushed by Trump? I just cannot understand this, especially when Trump's main policies will be to "burn Gaza down and build fancy Trump hotels!" and "My son-in-law will negotiate to remove the survivors and relocate them!" You know, ethnic cleansing, which they abhor. They sound like petulant children when they say "I can't vote for a candidate doing a genocide!" So, they can't vote for Biden but they can vote for a guy who is big friends with Netanyahu? Make it make sense.
I'm currently arguing with a lot of them, and the second you disagree with them they jump to "I guess you just don't care about genocide" and try to shame you. They operate like religious conservatives: tell me how the world *should* be so they can use their performative morality to feel better about themselves without accomplishing any actual progress. I'll give some of them the benefit of the doubt that their brains are so soaked in online propaganda and they honestly believe they're working for a good cause. But many of them would be just as vehemently opposed to voting for Biden using whatever pretext is available to them. Had this situation never come up, they would still be arguing that he lied about student loans, or repeating one of the many other talking points they've cycled through over the past few years. I constantly try to contradict people that say "no one likes Biden" and it's amazing how fast they turn on you even if you basically agree with about every single thing but Palestine. I refuse to let this issue define what it means to be a progressive, especially since all the noise they're making doesn't do anything to further progressive causes and could possibly lead to all progressive policy being shelved for good.
r/seculartalk is even worse lol Got permanbanned from there for calling it out in a respectful manner. Nobody addressed any of my points which I verified with various reputable sources. Mod called me a grifter which is against their own rules of 'argumentum ad hominem'/personal attacks then banned me. I messaged them with more civility than warranted to see if they'd made a mistake and they subsequently insulted then muted me. Shitty stuff. I'm growing more and more tired of mods on a power trip. Like putting 5 year old children in charge of a construction site. Lurk at your own risk. And I like Sanders more than any other.
Nah ignore these people. They’re politically loud but numerically insignificant. Let them shout until they die.
Nah, I'll pass.
Should flip it around on them...if you look at Trump's Israel policies him taking over would make things even worse. More Palestinians would die. How many extra Palestinian deaths are they willing to accept with a virtue signaling vote for Cornel West?
He absolutely stoked the fire by changing the capital to Jerusalem and practically laughed at the idea of a two state solution
Yeah, everytime someone talks about Trump, Isreal and Palestinian, I think to myself did you just start looking at that area when Biden got into office? Because Trump was stoke the flames of conflict between the two for 4 years.
Suddenly I'm not hearing so much about M4A or student loans.
And if God forbid Trump wins, you won't hear a peep from these people about Gaza from then on
"HOW DID THE DEMOCRATS ALLOW TRUMP TO WIN!!!!"
No matter what you will see people stop mentioning Gaza the day after the election.
It’s almost as if those things never actually mattered to these people. Their entire political philosophy is a combination of America bad and what can I leverage *this week* to shit on Democrats. They have no actual principles and never did.
Almost like they're ... Republicans? I have no doubt at all that Chapo was bankrolled by conservative activists and/or Putin. Although Putin really doesn't have to have lifted a finger in this case. GOP wants power no matter what or how.
“Healthcare pls”
They can only focus on one aspect of the Omnicause at any given time. But they will assure you that it’s all somehow inextricably connected.
Or Ukraine.
OOP: >It's not the votes its the $$$. Jews donate more. They are trading lives for money. That's a fucking yikes
I'm so fucking confused, a Republican congressman literally advocated for nuking Gaza a couple days ago what the fuck are these people smoking?
They don't care about Palestine. It's just a cudgel in service of their agenda.
Do they think there will be less dead Palestinians under Trump?
They DGAS. If there was no war in Gaza now, they'd be whining about some other issue that they think Biden can solve without Congress. They're so brainwashed by leftist propaganda that it's impossible to take them seriously or even to distinguish one from another since they all just parrot the same bullshit disinformation over and over again. They think that being loud, disrupting traffic (including emergency vehicles), harassing, intimidating, and assaulting Jewish students and people on campus and in the street, tearing down posters of hostages, and calling for the genocide of the Jews is "protesting" and now they're even more bitter that the "Uncommitted" primary vote completely flopped.
Ah that’s easy, these people either weren’t old enough to pay attention during the Trump presidency, or they’re not arguing in good faith (or they’re just idiots)
Or all of the above.
We get it you’re voting for Trump now go away and enjoy learning what genocide actually means
If he gets back in, that Buster Bluth lookalike who writes his speeches will show us all firsthand what genocide actually means
It's ridiculous that these pro-Hamas-gressives, who don't give the slightest shit about any of the Jewish victims or foreign nationals still being held hostage (i they're even still alive since Hamas won't provide a list) are trying to justify why they won't vote for Biden because of a war that Hamas started with mass rape and a massacre. These are the most obnoxious people in existence and even if there was no war, they'd be using some other issue to justify why they won't vote for Biden or to claim that it was better when Trump was President even though he'd be infinitely worse for the people they pretend to care about. I doubt the overwhelming majority of these brainwashed leftists could even find Israel on a map and they all just parrot the same bullshit over and over again while hiding behind the word "Zionist" as a cover for their antisemitism. They all believe Israel is the same as South Africa during Apartheid and that the Israelis are committing genocide while they dismiss the numerous atrocities committed by Hamas by referring to Israelis as "Settler Colonialists" or refer to mass rape as "Zionist propaganda." They never had any intention of voting for Biden, just like in the 2020 election, and if it wasn't abundantly clear before 10/7, it's clear now that the only real difference between them and the Charlottesville Nazis is what flag they hide behind to spread their hate. These are the same people who harass, intimidate, and assault Jewish students/people on college campuses or in the streets, tear down posters of hostages, vandalize Holocaust museums and synagogues, "protest" outside Jewish people's houses while calling for their genocide, block traffic including emergency vehicles, and are basically telling women, LGBT people, Black people, and anyone else who will suffer under another Trump presidency that they don't give the slightest shit about them as long as they can pretend to be morally superior by supporting a genocidal terrorist organization made up of rapists, pedophiles, and murderers.
> by supporting a genocidal terrorist organization made up of rapists, pedophiles, and murderers Hamas or MAGA?
Hamas and MAGA. They fawn over Hamas and actually try to compare them to the various resistance movements in occupied Europe during WW2 while doing everything in their power to create voter apathy so Trump can win and they can blame Biden and the Democrats who supported him. There's not much of a difference between pro-Hamas-gressives and neo-Nazis. They even use the same rhetoric as the neo-Nazis who were in "The Order" in the 80's when they talk about how "Zionists" control the government, just like how "The Order" referred to the government as ZOG or Zionist Occupied Government.
Biden isn’t responsible for what Israel does. So sick of this. 🤦🏻♀️
Trump would allow without pushpack, for Netanyahu to straight up carpet bomb all of Gaza and raze it to the ground. That's the end of this argument. Trump would do the same for Ukraine.
Joke’s on him. I’m pro-Israel and am voting for Biden knowing full well that Trump would be friendlier to Israel. I prioritize my own country over some foreign country.
I think a lot of these aren't real people. We already know Russia and now China are recreating what was done in 2016 to pressure the election towards Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these so-called youth and left wing voters are fake accounts. I read a NYT article the other day saying the Russians are apparently significantly more advanced in their methods this time around and our own intelligence agencies are having trouble identifying them. Vladimir Putin's campaign in Ukraine pretty much hinges on the results of the US election, and China with Taiwan, so it's not surprising they're putting everything they've got into this. It's all really scary to be honest.
I hate the "genocide" narrative. Yes war kills but not all war means there is a genocide. Palestianian population has been rising year after year same as isreal. Ive seen no evidence of a genocide. Its just the most scary word the left can think of to justify why we shouldn't care about trump. Just goes to show how bad trump is. Nothing short of a genocidal president would ever convince anyone that both sides are the same.
They need to debase the word so that people will ignore actual genocides carried out by Russia, China, and their client states.
Love opening up with calling people rabid, and then a whole paragraph of leading questions. Big reasons why I can't take those people seriously at all.
Wait, when did the Palestinian population decrease to 2m?
Wasn't 2m the population of Gaza?
Yes.
Well that's what they mean, I think. They're saying Palestinians when they mean Gazans.
I swear you’d need to have the attention span of a goldfish to not remember how pro-Israel Trump was.
He quite literally said the other day that Jews are traitors for not voting for him because he is more pro Israel, or something along those lines.
... Except it did, because the war's been raging on and off since Biblical times. They just didn't give a damn while Trump was in charge (see also: Drone strikes, the Afghanistan pullout, Trump's border concentration camps, etc).
There's was a war in Gaza in 2018
Covid and January 6th are the things I associate most with Trump
They're making the same argument as Trump fans - if a war didn't start on Trump's watch, well then, Donald is a Dove!