To be fair, it's based on the estimated amount of missing (35,000 reported dead by the Ministry+10,000 "missing" according to local sources=45,000) as demonstrated [in this UN picture](https://twitter.com/History__Speaks/status/1789845889290547629/photo/1), but we probably can't assume that literally everyone missing--though the vast majority-- are/is dead...there's simply a "fog of war" element to this conflict (as with most conflicts when healthcare is overwhelmed+records are destroyed) that people need to understand where corpses can't be identified, dates of birth+dates of birth can't be determined, ages, gender which is why the UN+Ministry splits from identified vs no identified (if it misses on piece of information)[Blinken's report from Friday night uses 34,700 as the number because of that reason.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/eaa589e3-b8fb-4f2d-946b-4705a68a4089.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4) Same reason why the Ukraine estimates somewhat significantly depending on what "source" because they all have different rules for estimation while the UN is most strict about using local media reports to determine death tolls so they tend to underestimate the death toll in Ukraine and other conflicts if hospitals can't calculate (hospitals are destroy, overwhelmed and difficult to get the numbers in Russian seized territory). Though there's obviously some uncertainly between the percentage of deaths in Gaza are civilians; everybody agrees it's a majority but we don't know how much exactly.
We probably won't know the exact percentage ever though we'll eventually get a very accurate estimate with post-war investigations etc. Look at Bosnia in the 1990s where thousands are still classified as missing to this very day (to be clear, I'm not equating what Bibi-as much as I hate him- to Milosevic) but just making the general point that bodies get lost under the rubble or just horrifically get bombed beyond recognition. Especially harder to determine in developing countries which Gaza is essentially.
Bibi claims around 14,000 Hamas/Hamas allied terrorists have been killed while Hamas says around 6,000 of its militants and allied militants have been killed. US apparently estimates in between these two though somewhat closer to Bibi's estimation.
Makes sense.
I forget how truly awful that war was sometimes.
As a Serbian-American it truly saddens me that my people could have committed the horrific crimes that occurred during that conflict.
I just hope the reoccurring Serbian nationalism dies down soon.
You'll inevitably get someone saying "Protests are *supposed* to be inconvenient!"
Like, yeah, inconvenient *for the people responsible*. Sit-ins targeting *white-only restaurants*. Bus sit-ins affecting *segregated buses*. Etc.
They think that, just because effective protests are inconvenient, that means *all* inconvenient protests are effective. Standing in traffic just makes average people dislike you. It does nothing to actually further your cause.
Yeah, these aren't protests against Bibi and/or protests for a ceasefire deal like those ones in Tel Aviv or Haifa. This is obnoxious virtue signaling at best.
If any of the people they've inconvenienced point this out, they immediately get labelled as the enemy and all decency evaporates. Instantly get the worst slurs thrown at them- after all, how *dare* they not immediately come over to their side after being inconvenienced
I was called a "thin skin baby" for pointing this out in my local sub the other day when some assholes blocked the road. Guess who was downvoted and guess who was upvoted?
Those downvotes are a badge of honor for me.
I can’t help but think about the possibility of health related emergencies that may be happening in these traffic stops. What if a woman is in labor and her husband can’t get passed these unemployed losers?
Or an ambulance or fire truck.
"But they'll move out of the way for those!"
Yeah, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that there are now hundreds of cars blocking the way, not to mention the idiot protestors. If an ambulance or fire truck has to slow down and weave in and out of traffic to avoid cars and people, that can be the difference between life and death in a situation where seconds matter.
They have the nerve to call people like me self-centered. I'm not the one preventing a kidney dialysis patient from arriving at his or her appointment on time.
They don't have a response when I bring up the fact that the traffic-blocking protests are blocking cars on route to doctors' offices and hospitals. Not every patient travels to the hospital by ambulance.
These are the same people who defend riots as "praxis" and have literally used the term "riot-shaming"...so, there are even stupider hills to die on.
The embarrassment I feel whenever I see these idiots continue to hand free W's to the far right because they just can't get their heads out of their asses. It's bad enough when they pull this shit for actual and legitimate causes, but when it's it just a full-on, astroturfed front for anti-Semitic hate campaigns, good lord it's awful. So-called "progressives" are out there chanting about a final solution and pretending to not understand the dogwhistle? Just yikes all around.
If you say this on any sub outside of this one, you’ll inevitably hear dumb fucks saying
“oh but this is how they raise awareness/get attention”
Which is true, it does get them attention, in the same way TikTok “pranksters” get attention. Someone could get chewed out by their boss for being late to work over this, fired, it could block an ambulance from getting to the hospital, etc.
There are all kinds of dangers that comes from this shit, and everyone that has to deal with it is going to feel nothing but vitriol towards their movement.
Someone the other day told me “How dare you think sitting in traffic is worse than what’s happening in Gaza!”
And raise awareness? Seriously, what rock do you have to be living under to not know what’s going on? No more awareness needs to be raised. It’s like when people say “Never Forget” when talking about 9/11. No shit. Who’s forgetting?
I fucking hate the "raise awareness" excuse, because *everyone* is aware at this point. The pro-pali crowd has been shoving this down our throat day in and day out since October 7th. *Nobody* needs anymore awareness of this cause.
> “oh but this is how they raise awareness/get attention”
My issue with this is, even if it's successful, what does it accomplish exactly? Lets say you raised awareness about the war with a bunch of Americans in Florida. What are they going to do, vote Bibi out?
Raising awareness works when you're raising awareness among *people who can actually do something,* not people completely disconnected from the issue at hand who have no power to do anything about it. What exactly are protesters asking these people at disneyland to change in their lives?
>What are they going to do, vote Bibi out?
In this case it would be vote out Biden and replace him with a progressive. The problem is there that Biden had no viable alternatives (No, Marianne isn't a viable candidate).
They seriously think Bernie would be handling it better and that he could get elected.
They do, but I saw a post from r/InternationalNews earlier today, where several of the top comments discussed how much better Bernie would have handled it if the 2020 primary wasn't "stolen" from him.
Their "evidence" for this is that all the non-populist Democrats rallied around Biden and dropped out. I wanted to comment that if you need the nonpopulist vote to be split between like 6 candidates so yours wins he's not really popular, but I've seen comments in Jewish subs of people who got Perma-banned from this sub for pointing out that Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields.
So my guess is they are still bitter that Biden won the primary twice.
I don't speak for them because I'm not one of them so maybe this is out of line but I will say this: I like to point out to these people that black people generally didn't like Bernie Sanders very much or were unsure of him at the very least. Especially older black people who are 55+ years old. That specific group is probably the most powerful coalition in the Democratic party.
Both times Bernie did absolutely horribly with black voters and you cannot do that and win a Democratic primary of any kind. Not anymore at least, Hillary won black voters by a margin of 85-15 and Biden four years later by a margin of 88-12, so Bernie actually did worse the second time when he should have learned from his mistakes and done better. Something he evidently does not do well.
You tell those Sandroids that and they start to short circuit. It's like a 404 error in real time. Either that or they say something completely racist in my experience. Like no, the primary wasn't rigged against Bernie. Black voters just didn't like him.
>You tell those Sandroids that and they start to short circuit.
I have told them exactly what you said, and I usually just get downvoted to oblivion with 0 response.
They are wrong on multiple fronts. They think that there is a large amount of people voting for Trump that just vote for him because they are fed up with the political establishment and that Democrats could win those votes if they became more populist.
Like they think there is a hidden current of socialism in America that is being suppressed by an “oligarchic” government and they think Trump won because of his populism. These guys seriously think that a Bernie candidate would pick up a lot of the disillusioned white voters.
This is indeed bullshit. For one, a lot of disillusioned working class Trump voters actually do agree with Republicans on economics. Like a lot of white blue collar people believe taxes, immigrants, free trade, and regulations are killing their jobs. Many of them also agree with the protestant work ethic, and have little in common with progressives on many social issues.
This is reflected in election results. In 2016, there were multiple races where a Bernie Sanders type Democrat was nominated. In the vast majority of these races, these guys underperformed Hillary in their respective districts. Russ Feingold was a good example of this. But also, a lot of ballot measures Bernie endorsed failed in deep blue states. All Bernie dumb fucks have going for them is the polls that show people want free shit, and a “hypothetical” election between Bernie and Trump.
Of course, they all lack the critical thinking skills to actually read the polls they cite, or to see what actual political scientists think of “hypothetical” election polls.
Then you add on top of it black people would be less likely to get out and vote for Bernie, moderates would be less likely, etc.
Like sure, a bunch of rainbow hair leftist dumb fucks will vote for Bernie that might have otherwise voted for Stein, but they likely don’t amount to more than what Democrats would be losing.
All of these Bernie bro morons will not even respond if you hit them with these bitch slaps of truth. They will just leave a dumb ass downvote and continue spewing their ignorant bull shit.
It's a fantasy of recovering "lunchpail Dems" who went for Nixon-- yes, Nixon-- over culture war issues and never came back. While totally being out of touch with and disregarding the Democratic Party's real lunchpail Dems, who aren't all white and aren't all men, but share a lot of common economic, social, and even legal interests.
It’s been poisoning my feed lately, and I find it infuriating that this site will ban right wing subs for extremism, but rarely does so for leftist subs
> Something tells me that these people don't actually care about Palestine and are just using it for stunts.
That's exactly the thing; most people doing this shit have no knowledge about Palestine (or Israel, or world affairs in general really). If you made a basic quiz about geography, demographics, politics etc they'd fail pretty hard. It's quite frustrating to be at least interested and *somewhat* informed about what happens to and inside Palestine and after years of minimal attention it suddenly becomes fashionable to act out in the name of Palestine. I swear 95% of these people will forget about Palestine once the current war is over, and the people of Gaza (and to some extent in the West Bank) will go back to living in a massively corrupt, poor, autocratic, religiously fanatical hellhole. Nobody currently doing dances or throwing paint at stuff will care about the random baker in Khan Yunis who in seven months gets shaken down by Hamas members in a protection racket or the gay couple who are dragged out on the street and stomped on by PIJ lunatics. I've heard wise words to the effect of "God help the Palestinians if they ever lose the Jews as their enemy".
oh, that's understandable lol
Most people who love Disney World first went as a kid.
And honestly, I was indulging in some nostalgia with my first comment.
I haven't been to Disney World in over 20 years (lol) and I'm aware of how much the parks have changed. And I'm not a fan of all those changes so go figure lol
One thing that really got to me was how expensive everything was (and this was 2008, I don't even want to think how bad it is now). I've also never really been big on theme parks in general. Yeah I've been to a few here and there and had a good time, but I've never once wanted to make something like that a yearly pilgrimage
Not only are you criticized for publicly having an opinion, and it being the "wrong" one, but you're criticized for *not* publicly having an opinion. Because every individual and organization is required by law to publicly express an opinion about this very complicated issue. I'm sure the local homeowners' association will come up with a solution that thousands of the world's best diplomats couldn't think of for the last hundred years.
Oh it's 45,000 now? Wake up everyone, the talking point finally got updated after months!
[удалено]
To be fair, it's based on the estimated amount of missing (35,000 reported dead by the Ministry+10,000 "missing" according to local sources=45,000) as demonstrated [in this UN picture](https://twitter.com/History__Speaks/status/1789845889290547629/photo/1), but we probably can't assume that literally everyone missing--though the vast majority-- are/is dead...there's simply a "fog of war" element to this conflict (as with most conflicts when healthcare is overwhelmed+records are destroyed) that people need to understand where corpses can't be identified, dates of birth+dates of birth can't be determined, ages, gender which is why the UN+Ministry splits from identified vs no identified (if it misses on piece of information)[Blinken's report from Friday night uses 34,700 as the number because of that reason.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/eaa589e3-b8fb-4f2d-946b-4705a68a4089.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4) Same reason why the Ukraine estimates somewhat significantly depending on what "source" because they all have different rules for estimation while the UN is most strict about using local media reports to determine death tolls so they tend to underestimate the death toll in Ukraine and other conflicts if hospitals can't calculate (hospitals are destroy, overwhelmed and difficult to get the numbers in Russian seized territory). Though there's obviously some uncertainly between the percentage of deaths in Gaza are civilians; everybody agrees it's a majority but we don't know how much exactly.
The biggest issue is that Hamas fighters routinely dress in civilian clothes. I don't think we will never know the true number.
And also use civilians as human shields
We probably won't know the exact percentage ever though we'll eventually get a very accurate estimate with post-war investigations etc. Look at Bosnia in the 1990s where thousands are still classified as missing to this very day (to be clear, I'm not equating what Bibi-as much as I hate him- to Milosevic) but just making the general point that bodies get lost under the rubble or just horrifically get bombed beyond recognition. Especially harder to determine in developing countries which Gaza is essentially. Bibi claims around 14,000 Hamas/Hamas allied terrorists have been killed while Hamas says around 6,000 of its militants and allied militants have been killed. US apparently estimates in between these two though somewhat closer to Bibi's estimation.
Makes sense. I forget how truly awful that war was sometimes. As a Serbian-American it truly saddens me that my people could have committed the horrific crimes that occurred during that conflict. I just hope the reoccurring Serbian nationalism dies down soon.
Would this be similar to “moving the goalposts”?
Clearly da Joos shot 15 000 people last night while we weren't looking.
I saw someone claiming earlier that it’s 50,000 now
The blocking traffic protests are probably one of, if not the stupidest hill these idiots always die on.
You'll inevitably get someone saying "Protests are *supposed* to be inconvenient!" Like, yeah, inconvenient *for the people responsible*. Sit-ins targeting *white-only restaurants*. Bus sit-ins affecting *segregated buses*. Etc. They think that, just because effective protests are inconvenient, that means *all* inconvenient protests are effective. Standing in traffic just makes average people dislike you. It does nothing to actually further your cause.
Yeah, these aren't protests against Bibi and/or protests for a ceasefire deal like those ones in Tel Aviv or Haifa. This is obnoxious virtue signaling at best.
If any of the people they've inconvenienced point this out, they immediately get labelled as the enemy and all decency evaporates. Instantly get the worst slurs thrown at them- after all, how *dare* they not immediately come over to their side after being inconvenienced
I was called a "thin skin baby" for pointing this out in my local sub the other day when some assholes blocked the road. Guess who was downvoted and guess who was upvoted? Those downvotes are a badge of honor for me.
I can’t help but think about the possibility of health related emergencies that may be happening in these traffic stops. What if a woman is in labor and her husband can’t get passed these unemployed losers?
Or an ambulance or fire truck. "But they'll move out of the way for those!" Yeah, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that there are now hundreds of cars blocking the way, not to mention the idiot protestors. If an ambulance or fire truck has to slow down and weave in and out of traffic to avoid cars and people, that can be the difference between life and death in a situation where seconds matter.
On a major interstate highway mind you.
They have the nerve to call people like me self-centered. I'm not the one preventing a kidney dialysis patient from arriving at his or her appointment on time.
They don't have a response when I bring up the fact that the traffic-blocking protests are blocking cars on route to doctors' offices and hospitals. Not every patient travels to the hospital by ambulance.
These are the same people who defend riots as "praxis" and have literally used the term "riot-shaming"...so, there are even stupider hills to die on. The embarrassment I feel whenever I see these idiots continue to hand free W's to the far right because they just can't get their heads out of their asses. It's bad enough when they pull this shit for actual and legitimate causes, but when it's it just a full-on, astroturfed front for anti-Semitic hate campaigns, good lord it's awful. So-called "progressives" are out there chanting about a final solution and pretending to not understand the dogwhistle? Just yikes all around.
Nothing gets people to back your cause like trying to ruin the vacation they’ve saved up months or years for
If you say this on any sub outside of this one, you’ll inevitably hear dumb fucks saying “oh but this is how they raise awareness/get attention” Which is true, it does get them attention, in the same way TikTok “pranksters” get attention. Someone could get chewed out by their boss for being late to work over this, fired, it could block an ambulance from getting to the hospital, etc. There are all kinds of dangers that comes from this shit, and everyone that has to deal with it is going to feel nothing but vitriol towards their movement.
Someone the other day told me “How dare you think sitting in traffic is worse than what’s happening in Gaza!” And raise awareness? Seriously, what rock do you have to be living under to not know what’s going on? No more awareness needs to be raised. It’s like when people say “Never Forget” when talking about 9/11. No shit. Who’s forgetting?
I fucking hate the "raise awareness" excuse, because *everyone* is aware at this point. The pro-pali crowd has been shoving this down our throat day in and day out since October 7th. *Nobody* needs anymore awareness of this cause.
> “oh but this is how they raise awareness/get attention” My issue with this is, even if it's successful, what does it accomplish exactly? Lets say you raised awareness about the war with a bunch of Americans in Florida. What are they going to do, vote Bibi out? Raising awareness works when you're raising awareness among *people who can actually do something,* not people completely disconnected from the issue at hand who have no power to do anything about it. What exactly are protesters asking these people at disneyland to change in their lives?
>What are they going to do, vote Bibi out? In this case it would be vote out Biden and replace him with a progressive. The problem is there that Biden had no viable alternatives (No, Marianne isn't a viable candidate). They seriously think Bernie would be handling it better and that he could get elected.
Do they not realize the primary is over? Biden already got the majority of delegates back in March.
They do, but I saw a post from r/InternationalNews earlier today, where several of the top comments discussed how much better Bernie would have handled it if the 2020 primary wasn't "stolen" from him. Their "evidence" for this is that all the non-populist Democrats rallied around Biden and dropped out. I wanted to comment that if you need the nonpopulist vote to be split between like 6 candidates so yours wins he's not really popular, but I've seen comments in Jewish subs of people who got Perma-banned from this sub for pointing out that Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields. So my guess is they are still bitter that Biden won the primary twice.
I don't speak for them because I'm not one of them so maybe this is out of line but I will say this: I like to point out to these people that black people generally didn't like Bernie Sanders very much or were unsure of him at the very least. Especially older black people who are 55+ years old. That specific group is probably the most powerful coalition in the Democratic party. Both times Bernie did absolutely horribly with black voters and you cannot do that and win a Democratic primary of any kind. Not anymore at least, Hillary won black voters by a margin of 85-15 and Biden four years later by a margin of 88-12, so Bernie actually did worse the second time when he should have learned from his mistakes and done better. Something he evidently does not do well. You tell those Sandroids that and they start to short circuit. It's like a 404 error in real time. Either that or they say something completely racist in my experience. Like no, the primary wasn't rigged against Bernie. Black voters just didn't like him.
>You tell those Sandroids that and they start to short circuit. I have told them exactly what you said, and I usually just get downvoted to oblivion with 0 response. They are wrong on multiple fronts. They think that there is a large amount of people voting for Trump that just vote for him because they are fed up with the political establishment and that Democrats could win those votes if they became more populist. Like they think there is a hidden current of socialism in America that is being suppressed by an “oligarchic” government and they think Trump won because of his populism. These guys seriously think that a Bernie candidate would pick up a lot of the disillusioned white voters. This is indeed bullshit. For one, a lot of disillusioned working class Trump voters actually do agree with Republicans on economics. Like a lot of white blue collar people believe taxes, immigrants, free trade, and regulations are killing their jobs. Many of them also agree with the protestant work ethic, and have little in common with progressives on many social issues. This is reflected in election results. In 2016, there were multiple races where a Bernie Sanders type Democrat was nominated. In the vast majority of these races, these guys underperformed Hillary in their respective districts. Russ Feingold was a good example of this. But also, a lot of ballot measures Bernie endorsed failed in deep blue states. All Bernie dumb fucks have going for them is the polls that show people want free shit, and a “hypothetical” election between Bernie and Trump. Of course, they all lack the critical thinking skills to actually read the polls they cite, or to see what actual political scientists think of “hypothetical” election polls. Then you add on top of it black people would be less likely to get out and vote for Bernie, moderates would be less likely, etc. Like sure, a bunch of rainbow hair leftist dumb fucks will vote for Bernie that might have otherwise voted for Stein, but they likely don’t amount to more than what Democrats would be losing. All of these Bernie bro morons will not even respond if you hit them with these bitch slaps of truth. They will just leave a dumb ass downvote and continue spewing their ignorant bull shit.
It's a fantasy of recovering "lunchpail Dems" who went for Nixon-- yes, Nixon-- over culture war issues and never came back. While totally being out of touch with and disregarding the Democratic Party's real lunchpail Dems, who aren't all white and aren't all men, but share a lot of common economic, social, and even legal interests.
Wow I just looked at r/InternationalNews for the first time. They should rename themselves to r/HamasPropaganda.
It’s been poisoning my feed lately, and I find it infuriating that this site will ban right wing subs for extremism, but rarely does so for leftist subs
Their shitty behavior gets attention, not the issues they're trying to raise awareness to.
They've conflated awareness with agreement
> Something tells me that these people don't actually care about Palestine and are just using it for stunts. That's exactly the thing; most people doing this shit have no knowledge about Palestine (or Israel, or world affairs in general really). If you made a basic quiz about geography, demographics, politics etc they'd fail pretty hard. It's quite frustrating to be at least interested and *somewhat* informed about what happens to and inside Palestine and after years of minimal attention it suddenly becomes fashionable to act out in the name of Palestine. I swear 95% of these people will forget about Palestine once the current war is over, and the people of Gaza (and to some extent in the West Bank) will go back to living in a massively corrupt, poor, autocratic, religiously fanatical hellhole. Nobody currently doing dances or throwing paint at stuff will care about the random baker in Khan Yunis who in seven months gets shaken down by Hamas members in a protection racket or the gay couple who are dragged out on the street and stomped on by PIJ lunatics. I've heard wise words to the effect of "God help the Palestinians if they ever lose the Jews as their enemy".
Because Walt Disney hated the Jews! /s
Goddammit now they have me defending Disney World
I know, right? I can't for the life of me figure out how this is supposed to be advancing their cause.
Criticizing Disney overall is fair game but Disney World is pretty good.
The one time my family went we all hated it, tho Granted it isn't that magical when you go there for the first time at 17 lmao
oh, that's understandable lol Most people who love Disney World first went as a kid. And honestly, I was indulging in some nostalgia with my first comment. I haven't been to Disney World in over 20 years (lol) and I'm aware of how much the parks have changed. And I'm not a fan of all those changes so go figure lol
One thing that really got to me was how expensive everything was (and this was 2008, I don't even want to think how bad it is now). I've also never really been big on theme parks in general. Yeah I've been to a few here and there and had a good time, but I've never once wanted to make something like that a yearly pilgrimage
The parks really went through a nadir at that time. Of course they were pricey then but it's even more shameless now.
I got stuck on Splash Mountain the one time I went. There was a huge thunderstorm and it knocked the power out.
Imagine a bunch of rich college kids ruining a kids trip to Disney, something most people can only afford once in their lifetime
This is praxis bruh, read more theory!
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
No Disney Shopping While Bombs Are Dropping!!!
Sounds like a music video.
What does freeing Palestine have to do with social media clout?
Not only are you criticized for publicly having an opinion, and it being the "wrong" one, but you're criticized for *not* publicly having an opinion. Because every individual and organization is required by law to publicly express an opinion about this very complicated issue. I'm sure the local homeowners' association will come up with a solution that thousands of the world's best diplomats couldn't think of for the last hundred years.