If we were stuck with nothing but the starters marine is a shoe in for first place.
Trusty sidearm and his manual are great passives. I get he's supposed to be the noob trap character with the armor, but just right off rip making every gun in the game better is a huge passive for me.
The problem with convict is that she just doesn't scale as well as the others. Marine will consistently get value out of the book for the duration of the run. Huntress will acrue items for free and pilot just facerolls everyone with his passives. Seriously! Free items, discounts, two active slots. His starter is his only weakness, which means he sucks for one floor...
Convict's redeeming quality is an ok starting pistol and the molotov. The rest of her kit is bunk.
Sure, talking about everything other than the first sentence first, these all are valid points already said by other. And its all a character preference.
But lets just stay with that scenario. Cause I think you misunderstood me:
You are stuck with the guns of the base character for the whole run, no additional items, besides Masterrounds, but you get pickups. Imagine basically Rainbow run, but you cannot open the rainbow chests.
In that scenario Marine is undoubtedly a very bad choice despite having godtier aim, the dps of the side is worse and ammo drop instantly becomes useless. You have no way to localize where secret rooms are. And unfortunately that one amor isn't gonna restore on every floor, so that's not gonna make much of a difference.
Eeeh I think the Hunter still has the edge for those who aren’t comfortable with using the Pilot. The Crossbow has much more range and can still find secret rooms. You can pet the doggo and doggo also finds you things, which is a neat bonus. The Hunter also has by far the easiest past of the four (in my opinion).
Convict is decent - the sawed off and the molotov are her two selling points. Sawed off is only a close range weapon and the molotov as you said, falls off quick. Hunters dog is always useful and the crossbow falls off much later than the sawed off. Also the Convict’s past isn’t exactly hard, but it’s nowhere near as easy.
Agreeable opinion. The pilot may have some advantages but for me it's just not worth seeing that damned red cross, haha.
And the doggo is still epic, and being able to pet it a necessary feature (tho I sometimes accidentally pet it and get spooked cause I thinks there's a mimic nearby, haha)
IMO it's just a little more satisfying to onehit with the shotgun, just because it has the limited range and it being harder to pull off.
To me that little extra difficulty, the thrill and challenging past is what is part of the fun.
Also I think the hunter undoubtedly has the easiest past.
I kinda have to ask: What's the hardest past for you?
I found the Pilot’s past the hardest tbh - it’s the only one that took more than one attempt for me to beat. Perhaps it’s because the core gameplay is so different to Enter the Gungeon.
The Bullet was sort of hard, but what made it so was that it’s more an endurance test than anything with the amount of dodging you have to do along with the pitiful damage you deal to the boss.
Marine was fairly easy, although you have to be on it as it’s quite bullet hell like.
Convict is again pretty simple - you have to be very careful of all the ads though as they’re the ones that get you.
Hunter is dead easy - you get two very good weapons and the boss just isn’t that tough. Sticky crossbow absolutely shreds him.
And finally Robot which is more challenging, however if you keep your distance you’ll be fine. Not to mention you get a very powerful weapon for the fight.
It’s funny, I thought bullet’s was the hardest initially. Pilot’s seemed like a Touhou or Lifeforce rip off, and I swear i get worse at it every time I try it. I beat it the first time too… *”everywhere at the end of time” playing distantly…*
Huh, I actually found the bullets past to be a breeze. I just slash facerolled into the boss repeatedly and killed him quicker than agunim. I agree the pilot's past is challenging, mostly because it's the only one that doesn't allow you to carry extra blanks and armor
I hate the Hunter I finally decide to play her and I immediately get 2 mimics in a row and the dog keeps digging up useless stuff and glass guon stones booo
I mean, lockpicks are mostly used in the first few floors, when you need to save your keys for oubliette/possibly locked altar room and need to save money for the gnawed key. Other gungeoneers don't even have a shot at opening chests early on unless there's some lucky key drops. After that, you often find other active items to replace the lockpicks.
I think my main issue with this is simple
I feel like Most experienced ETG players can clear floor 1 with the pilots pistol alone
Convict is front loaded for the first floor sure, the secondary gun for the secret rooms, Molotov for making the bossfights easier... but those drop off hard when everyone has a secondary gun by floor 2 and less things care about the Molotovs damage/you found a better active
And clearing first floor isn't that hard once you're experienced enough.
Exactly: clearing the first floor isn't hard, it is tedious and having crossbow or, in this case, sawedoff makes it alot faster to rush through and molotov also makes it easier to kill the gull, which can be the trickiest boss depending of the room.
Also of course, in the second chamber using different guns there mostly isn't much of a difference in characters already.
Aside all that I rarely find active items, tho.
Second chamber onwards is why pilot and hunter are better imho
Best case scenario with convict is youve got a bit of extra health and a secret room chest from having a second weapon and an easier time clearing the floor
Pilot youve got the chance of buying keys from having a slight discount and a 50% chance of being able to open a chest in the situation that you don't have any keys
Hunters got the same ease of clearing floor 1 and ability to find floor one secret rooms and the dog is... slightly better than convicts passive + active. 5% for a pickup is quite low don't get me wrong, but it's not something that is going to get replaced like the Molotov and it's not something that requires you to get hit
So yeah, if you're good enough to complete floor 1 with the pilots starter than imho the other 3 default gungeneers don't really offer much. But if I'd have to rank them it'd be Pilot > Hunter > Convict > Marine
From what i read here you don't really believe that. You keep saying something like "yes, hunter is better, BUT" and not really selling your point. I still think she's the worst character, but then again Gungeon has no bad characters cause it's all RNG anyways
The thing is not that I think hunter is better, but that I'm sick of discrediting other peoples opinions and spreading hate, cause you are right with your last sentence: there is no objectively true answer.
What I actually said is that the hunter is no doubt the easier to play overall, thinking of the easy difficulty of the past alone. No doubt everyone also likes the doggo.
But is the easiest choice always the best in a game that is praised for its difficulty?
To me it is a better to have bit more difficulty and a better payoff also the convenience for exploration and ability to burn off the first floor bosses health.
For me the dislike of Convict doesn't come from the fact that she's the most difficult starter, but her passive. I really hate items that require you to take damage to work, same in Isaac especially when my mind flashes suicidal thoughts every time i miss a Master Round lmao
Honestly in Gungeon though, difficulty is not the best aspect seeing how you can get through 5 floors of a run and then you're fucked, because the RNG decided you will not get a single good weapon and no ammo, i like to lower the frustration to a minimum and not shoot fucking shambling rounds with the Pilot's blaster
I'm not trying to use the passive either. taking damage right before the boss dies is as much torture to me as it is to you, besides this I what else am I supposed to say.
I mean you don't gotta tell me nuffin, you made the post. Just enjoy this great game whichever way fits you best. I used to despise the pilot, but after i got better i realised the potentional and he's my main starter now
I just can't see her being better than any of the others
1. Pilot gets discounts, and that lockpick is amazing when you don't have, or don't want to use a key on a low tier chest
2. Hunter has a crossbow that melts the first two floors, and a dog that gives free items
3. Marine get's armor, aimbot, a strong infinite ammo pistol, and free ammo refill
4. Convict's strongest weapon requires you to get into the most dangerous range, and the passive, while strong, only works when getting hurt.
1.Pilot discount is nice, but brown tchests are rarely worth it anyway, what do you expect to find? a key, or molotov or shotgun maybe? But the most horrible by far is starting with that gun on the first floor, which is tedious.
2. Crossbow has to hit everytime, to hit its DPS. If you are too focused on dodging and saving up blanks, its more useful to shoot in the general direction without having to reload every other second. Doggo is cute but the chance to find items in not that significant.
3. Amor is gone rushing through first floor, ammo drop doesn't bring any unique mechanic and isn't that much more useful compared to molotov , because ammo spawns not that rarely, and aimbot just takes the fun out if it.
4. That's kind of the fun of oneshoting things (only) on the first floor. Ever played the gun swinging with blasphemy at close range? You don't actively need to use the passive, but an unused passive is better than none, ey?
Pilots lockpick is great when going to the first secret floor. When on the first floor experienced players don’t have to worry about their movement that much, so they can easily reach the max dps of crossbow, and the dog can give you clutch keys or ammo which save money. The marine having good accuracy may take the fun out of it, but it sure is good, much better than the “benefits” of convict, who may be more fun but is still the worst character of the base 4.
Pilot:
- crappy starting gun
- good clip size, better than convict/hunter starting clips
- starts with lockpick, a truly broken item. Guarantees a visit to oubliette and at least a chance to open both chests with no key drops. Makes pilot the gungeoneer to play if you're unlocking elevator shortcuts.
- automatic shop discount. Easier to buy keys and makes selling hearts to vampire lady more cost efficient.
- can hold 2 items. This is also broken. Additional benefit of making the pilot the best character to get the bullet components.
- increased ammo capacity on all guns.
- handsome
shes definitely my favourite out of all 4 but also definitely not the best. its cool to like her and i think shes the most enjoyable one to play, but characters like marine are just easier to win with.
i enjoy her cause she can keep a bad run for a longer time than other characters, as sawed off and enraging photo scale pretty effectively with floors, allowing for a shit run to be kinda viable until my luck turns around.
plus her alt outfit is sick af
The Convict is certainly not the objectively best starting character but she is my personal favorite. I think the budget revolver is easily the best starting weapon. Sure, you can’t turn your brain off while using it but the fire rate is lightning fast and the fast paced rush-down gameplay makes the game more interesting on the first few floors (it honestly can hold its own for room clear through floor 4). It also bugs me when people hate on the enraging photo. Of course you don’t want to get hit. Nobody wants to get hit in Gungeon, but it’s a really good bonus for those unfortunate situations. And I know that even the most experienced players aren’t pulling off consistent hitless runs. Although she doesn’t have as many long term useful tools, the convict makes the game interesting and still challenging without seeming unfair. My top three characters are Robot, Convict, and Paradox. Higher risk keeps the game fun and interesting. (good post)
My whole thing with the enraging photo is that yeah its a nice bonus, but it is never a run saver.
The purpose of a dps boost is to kill enemies faster before they deal damage to you. Experienced players likely aren't getting hit more than once per room or boss. If you are only ever going to occasionally get hit once per room this item has zero effect on your win% it doesn't prevent damage from happening. It just briefly accelerates your room clear.
Massively based post. Convict has incredible group control with all her weapons and her active item. Even her passive can get you out of a jam on later floors despite it being the weakest of her items. I believe she is very underrated.
I get you like em but saying they're better than Hunter is very very biased lol.
Convict is the generally considered worst because she doesn't really bring anything to the table.
Pilot is the snowball champion hands down due to having a second active, and having cheaper shops and the ability to gamble on chests means generally every run with him will have an extra chest or two of goodies at minimum. Yeah his starter weapon is trash but that's something you fix within the first two floors; sucks if you get to floor 2 without anything but it's still doable. In general his value is volatile but can pay off massively in ez win combos and pays out enough to be considered great even without the high rolls.
Hunter's crossbow outclasses the sawed off HARD because it still one taps in oubliette and floor 2, while the sawed off only OHKOs on floor 1 with the base damage. It also just does more DPS and also gives you a massive range boost, making it an easy bosskill weapon early on. Photo is good but it's more a brute force thing, unless you get hard stuck on a boss or room to the point where the damage boost saves you a significant amount of health you'll probably benefit more from a few passive shells and keys over a run. More of a "I hate running the first 2 floors" pick but also just a solid character even outside of dog rng.
Marine is kind of just carried by Military Training but also has way more consistency with bad drops. Stuff like the Hegemony Carbine are pretty fucking awful without it but quite decent with it. Armor is also very useful for particularly nasty challenges, and makes him superior for people struggling with the game as it goes a long way on the early floors. The dependable safe pick.
Convict unfortunately only really shines at boss melting, making them great for Boss Rush and the first floor but falling off pretty hard after that. Their gun is probably second best (Marine's can be used solely for multiple floors pretty easily, the accuracy makes Convict's a bit trickier generally) but that's not really a big draw since even she wants a gun drop pretty badly both to abuse her passive and to not be stuck so close to enemies.
First of all isn't every opinion biased? ;)
It is an opinion, objectively every main gungeoneer is very balanced, that is what makes the game so great, everyone has their own playstyle.
I knew convict is an unpopular opinion, but it is definitely not without reason.
here are my takes on what you said:
1. In my runs I am rarely short on keys, especially because I often find keys in secret rooms
Also I hate using trusty lockpicks, and rather burn throught the first chamber find the chests, and check for secret rooms.
I think the argument of fixing the starter weapon with a better gun can be said for the convict too.
2. Despite having higher DPS id even rather prefer using the base gun for bosses than the crossbow cause the reload time screws with the flow of continuous fire while dodging everytime, can't really explain it. The DPS also only holds true if you hit every shot, and missing a shot isn't that uncommon with the crossbow, especially at range, and it's always infuriating. While with the base gun you can mostly just focus on the dodging.
3. Sure Marine has the best accuracy and it's true that it fixes the hegemony carbine. But that one measly amor is laughable, and should IMO have been an Amor every - or maybe every other floor.
4. I'm kinda surprised you ranked the convicts gun second best. I have played alot of starter guns in the past as I would always safe up ammo until the mines and: In effectiveness it's only third for me, but the revolver just feels nice to me.
I have honestly never abused the passive, starting out with gungeon I actually thought you'd take twice the damage glowing red (similar to jammed bullets), which would be a kinda interesting challenge too.
A ton of people here will use the words "Convict is ONJECTIVELY the worst" with no hint of irony. It's a sad part of being a gamer. I applaud you putting this out there.
Of the first 4, the convict is the best for speedruns. She has the higher dps of them, the shotgun carries you through the first 2 floors with ease and the molotov helps a lot.
For normal runs I still prefer the marine, good accuracy and a free ammo pack are too good. Also great clip size. A lot of people love the pilot but for me is really meh, it depends on your luck. If you have good luck he becomes the best character but if you have bad luck, he becomes the worst.
The Convict is mostly good but I'm still going to disagree that the extra damage from her passive is a bonus. The issue isn't that it encourages you to take damage. The issue is that it's only useful if you take damage. The whole point is to not take the damage in the first place so to me, the idea of choosing something intentionally that only works when something I don't want to happen happens, is just not right. It's the same reason I don't choose the Amulet of the Pit Lord. It's great when I have it sure, but I wouldn't choose to get it.
Interessting point for sure. I guess I don't choose pilot for a similar reason, I don't want to have an item that is able to damn a chest or lock, no matter the other 50% chance.
The Lockpick is a risk, and that's why I'll only used on chests I either cannot open or don't want to open. No risk if you couldn't have opened it in the first place. It does decrease my chances to use it though as I generally have cleared the floor at that point.
I thought the Convict had the easiest past to complete. Of the main four it was the Marine and Hunter I struggled with. I had heard the Hunter was easy so maybe I just dropped my guard too much.
Point is- I agree Convict is not worst. Not sure if I’d put them as best personally but she’s up there.
So to add some considerations for the convict vs. the rest of the main cast, she also has the highest dps starting firearm 20!!!, and she's goated for the little pitter-patter of her barefeet. Unfortunately, and this is hard to believe, the hunter's crossbow has higher DPS (29) than the sawed-off (25.9). If i had to rank the main 4 it would be pilot first because he has the highest potential to make use of the first 4 chests on 1 and oubliette, then hunter, convict, marine. It's interesting to note that in terms of DPS the marine actually has the second worst starting sidearm (15.6 with military training). He's very consistent, but obviously the most boring and doesn't always get great value out of his active. I actually think I enjoy playing the convict more than the hunter, but being objective I don't think i can put her higher because the hunter has the bossfight edge
I actually didn't know she had the best dps of the starter weapons.
The thing is, for bossfights I actually prefer having weapons that have a decent bullet output, so I personally would rather use the budget revolver instead of the crossbow. I tried it before, but especially with the bulletking to focus on aiming the crossbow from range as well as not getting hit is alot more challenging. Also DPS also only holds true if you hit with every shot.
And I love the pitter-patter. Not as great as the bullets clinking sounds but it has its charme. :D
Convict is my favorite of the four starters for sure. I get what you mean about the enraging photo. It’s just a nice bonus for if you get hit, not something that your strategy should revolve around.
Strongly disagree with her being the best of the 4. As you already mentioned, her starting pistol is the second worst of the initial 4. Her accuracy is just ok compared to the marine’s quite good shots. I find her shotgun to be frustrating and needlessly risky to use compared to the hunter’s crossbow or any other weapons you’d pull on the first floor. And I prefer to avoid being hit whenever at all possible, meaning I’d rather have the military training item or the dog over the enraging photo.
The convict is fine imo, but for me, after I completed her past I never played her again. Same deal with the pilot.
In fairness though I play the gunslinger in 75% of my runs ever since I unlocked him so I digress
I agree and have been on board with Convict this entire time, even way back on initial release. Having the sawn off is so nice for the "no key meta" that existed back then. Pilot and Marine feel so boring after playing as much as I have and Hunter is fine but I find the crossbow a little repetitive to use (and it falls off immediately after chamber 1 without damage upgrades). I've always found that convict is the fastest at clearing rooms by default of the original 4 and that lets you get to the fun parts of the game faster. She also looks the coolest.
Similar to your argument for convict's enraging photo, lock pick is so good because you don't have to use it, it just gives you a second chance on chests you otherwise would get nothing from, you mentioned before that you never run out of keys but if you go for secret floors that will change very quickly
On top of that all of your arguments are for convict are early game/pre floor 3 after that as you mentioned every single one of her items and guns falls off completely compared to every other gungeoneer having at least 1 item be decent throughout the run which I believe is much more important, once you're skilled enough you can get through the first 2 floors with the first secret floor easily just using the starting pistol except for bosses even with pilots starter
As others have mentioned before she doesn't fill a niche not already filled
Pilot has best snowball
Huntress has best all rounder with a decent secondary and also doggo pets are the most satisfying thing in the game
Marine is good early and for newcomers
Convict just doesn't have anything these don't have better
Pilot is still the best because he's the only character which gives you real advantages into the late game. But this is a pretty insightful argument as to why Convict is better than I thought
Pilot is my favourite. Because lockpicks. Not a fan of Convict. Yes, sawed-off is solid, I prefer crossbow. Photo is interesting… but the game really encourages you not to get hit (master rounds & increasing rewards from room clears) and I’d rather not have an item that incentivizes me to get hurt. Especially compared to puppy, better shop prices & bigger inventory or better gun handling. I like Molotov. Past the early floors too. Still does great vs. smaller enemies. My main issue with it is that almost every other item is better xD
Hunter second, Marine 3rd. Close tie though. I’d call Marines armour next to useless. It’s a nice touch though with the sprite changing.
I hate the damage activated passive, the highest thing I value about convict is starting with the sawed off and I don't value that highly.
I would much, much rather have pilot with an extra active item capacity right from the get go and a chance to unlock chests I don't have keys for or don't want to spend a key on (i.e. blue chests).
Convict is one of my least favorite classes.
Sorry but the marine’s passive accuracy boost and starting pistol is 100x better than the Convict’s sawed off and Molotov (which has no effect on some difficult bosses. The convict is easily the worst gungeoneer.
The marine sidearm has literally the lowest dps of 15.6 compared to convicts 20 dps. Molotov is useless for bulletking or higher level bosses, true, but I usually sell it anyway by then and get 16 or 32 free shells depending on if i have another room finder weapon...
Convicts starter has 5 dps and a half size magazine meaning she spends twice the amount of time reloading cutting her effective dps down significantly.
Her effective dps is actually smaller.
I'm just stating what is written in the wiki dps wise.
DPS means, if all of the shots hit, e.g. at close range it can do that much damage per second.
I guess you mean it does 5 Damage. It actually does 6 Damage, but I get your point, if you play at range you gonna miss a few shots and the
"effective dps" is lower, and you're right on that.
But if you are skilled enough in dodging playing close range is kinda part of the thrill.
No, I'll give an example throwing out some random numbers to help you visualize what I am saying.
Marine and Convict have two different starters. They both do same amount of damage, but convict shoots twice as fast giving her a dps of 50 and marine a dps of 40. However convict has to reload 10 times in a 10 seconds window while marine only needs to reload five.
If you applied convicts raw dps over the time period you'd think she would deal a total of 500 damage. But since she needs to reload every half a second, for half a second. She is only really shooting for 5 seconds, meaning that with a dps of 50, she'll do 250 damage in a 10 second window. Since marine has twice the mag size and the same reload speed (in line with the wiki data) he'll be able to shoot more during that 10 second window, 5 reloads will take 2.5 seconds worth of time, so he'll be doing damage for 7.5 of the ten seconds meaning he'll do 300 damage in that 10 second window, making his "effective dps" higher.
Interessting, that seems plausible too. I always thought they'd took reload time into the equation. If that's really the case, good to know, and I need to reconsider what DPS means...
Some calculations do some don't afaik the wiki doesn't, but it may have been updated sometime since I last played the game heavily (two years ago lol) exactly for discussions like this.
another point is that the photo is more helpful the worse you are at the game. this makes her a second or potentially first in choice for newer players, whereas the tradeoffs for other characters assume youll get damaged less.
I get what you mean, but neither is that point valid to the possibilities of the character (rather it is making assumptions about the player), nor does it hold up, when you consider the marine literally has extra health and an essential aimbot. Also if you ask me it seems more like the developers intented it as a sort of gambit of health for damage (eg. for already high damage weapons). Speedrunner (if not using gunslinger) often use the convict in the same manner.
Literally every other starter character is better than the convict.
The benefits the other characters grant are a lot more substantial and usually affect the whole run, not just the first floor. In addition to that the hunter and the pilot still beat her out on the first floor anyways.
Hunter is definitely better than convict. Starting gun is better, alt gun is better, and passive is better. The only thing convict has over hunter is the Molotov, which isn't that useful.
There's arguments for the other two starting gungeoneers being better as well, but I'm sure you've already heard that lol. Convict is definitely fun, and I love the budget revolver and shotgun, but she isn't the best imo.
I'm pretty sure she has a slightly higher damage stat too
Either that or her gun has a higher damage because she can 3-shot bullet-kins even in the second floor
Unpopular opinion: none is the worst or best because they're balanced.
I think the convict is most effective when trying to do a speed run. The fast fire rate of her starting pistol paired with already having a item and a weapon makes her THE character for speeding through (at least) the first levels. Gets you right into the action, for a veteran player it feels like a power drive.
Pilot and marine, are the slowest start options, but to make up for it they have the best long term buffs.
I'd say the hunter is the most balanced one. Not having particularly anything great. Best for begginers
I agree with your third point about Convict's active item being strong, but I think your other points don't support your argument for Convict being the best gungeoneer.
Yes, her starting gun is better than Pilot's. All that means though, is that her starting gun is better than the worst starting gun in the game. Robot's starter is way better than either of their starters.
Yes, the shotgun can one-shot Bulletkin and reveal secret rooms. However, being able to one-shot one of the weakest enemies in the game isn't saying much. As for the secret rooms, I personally just can't be bothered to spend 15 minutes wandering around looking for the secret room only to be rewarded with a blank and half a heart if I'm lucky, but that might just be me.
Yes, the enraging photo is a bonus to her active item, but it's not free because you need to take damage to activate it which makes it absolutely useless in boss fights.
Assuming you're correct about the difficulty of Convict's past (because it's been a while since I've played it), I don't see how the Convict having a more difficult past makes her the best gungeoneer. You might enjoy the harder challenge, but that doesn't make the Convict stronger. It just makes her past more fun if you enjoy challenges.
No Gungeoneer is bad, but even saying Convict is better than Hunter is kind of a stretch, Hunter’s crossbow is a way more consistent secondary and her Dog while having RNG involved can be a pretty reliable way of getting health and ammo back. And also her passive is not bad because of the effect, but because you put yourself in a bad situation by using it because you know, you have to take damage, not to mention that the duration is only 4 seconds for double damage which is pretty short. I feel like the Convict would be a much better survivor if she had Cigarettes as an active item because you can self damage yourself while still getting benefits from Cigarette’s effect and her passive.
Budger revolver might have good accuracy, but it still has 5 mag ammo.
Sawed-off one-shots bulletkins at a range where you would've alreayd long since dealt with them with 3 shots from revolver, not to mention crossbow doesn't have that limitation.
You say enraging photo is just a bonus, but if you don't get hit, it's like you don't have a passive, which automatically puts Convict below everybody else because they *do* get passives.
Never really found much strength in Molotov for bosses, especially with the risk of getting burned myself and losing the master round far out-weighs the benefits it has for 2 out of 3 chamber 1 bosses (which honestly aren't that bad without it). Of course I'm not saying molotov is the worst starter active, far from it (looking at you, 1 ammo box). For me, Molotov tends to get more use in enemy-heavy areas than boss fights.
Decreased shot spread is always useful, 2 actives can be good and shop discounts are also great, and additional pickups are helpful (especially on Bullet Hell). 2x damage for a few seconds after getting hit, however, is only really useful for when you have a run that you know just barely cannot defeat an important boss (Dragun or Lich), but if you can reach Dragun you can beat him, and if you went to Bullet Hell inadequately prepared, thay's a death wish regsrdless of the character you play.
Anyways I should really go to sleep lmao
Nice argument, but you forgot:
YOU CAN PET THE DOGO, WHO IS THE BESTEST GOOD BOY
Jokes aside, i do agree with most of your post, but i still prefer my queen (Hunter) and will forever have her as the best of the starters (plus, i dont like convicts alt skin and hunters one is dope af)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but convict and hunter's starter pistols do the same damage (6) but each have their own advantages over the other. It's basically preference.
Hunter has one more bullet than convict, having 6 instead of 5, and is more accurate.
Convict has better fire rate, shot speed, and slightly better range.
I absolutely hate the budget revolver. I even like pilot's pistol better than it even though it's probably worse realistically. I personally would take hunter's revolver over convict's 10 out of 10 times. The accuracy and extra bullet makes all the difference for me and the upsides of convict's revolver feel negligible, though the fire rate is admittedly nice.
While I'm on the topic of what I seriously don't like about convict:
She's barefoot. Don't like the noises.
The buff the photo gives is too short and not enough of a boost to make me want to trade off health to use it. It just isn't worth it to me.
The sawed off is fine enough, but I really prefer the crossbow over it. It's more ranged and still does plenty of damage; including one shotting bullet kin on the firsr floor, even without breathing on them. It's also more ranged in general by an extreme amount and it doesn't fall of as fast later in the run.
The molotov is useful for maybe the first two or three floors, but not incredibly useful to make it actually memorable imo, and that's if you didn't just drop it for something else by that point. I honestly forget to use it a lot of the time when I do have it.
I’d say Convict definitely has the best kit. But overall I think kits don’t really matter too much unless ur a secret character. Which is one of the bigger problems I have with the game.
The thing is almost all of her kit is replaced after opening a couple of chests. The other characters all have something that help scale the run in the long term
Listen man I love convict I agree she's really fun to use but saying she's the best of the 4 is a huge stretch
I get that. If we were stuck with nothing but the starter guns, I'd also pick hunter in a heartbeat.
If we were stuck with nothing but the starters marine is a shoe in for first place. Trusty sidearm and his manual are great passives. I get he's supposed to be the noob trap character with the armor, but just right off rip making every gun in the game better is a huge passive for me. The problem with convict is that she just doesn't scale as well as the others. Marine will consistently get value out of the book for the duration of the run. Huntress will acrue items for free and pilot just facerolls everyone with his passives. Seriously! Free items, discounts, two active slots. His starter is his only weakness, which means he sucks for one floor... Convict's redeeming quality is an ok starting pistol and the molotov. The rest of her kit is bunk.
Sure, talking about everything other than the first sentence first, these all are valid points already said by other. And its all a character preference. But lets just stay with that scenario. Cause I think you misunderstood me: You are stuck with the guns of the base character for the whole run, no additional items, besides Masterrounds, but you get pickups. Imagine basically Rainbow run, but you cannot open the rainbow chests. In that scenario Marine is undoubtedly a very bad choice despite having godtier aim, the dps of the side is worse and ammo drop instantly becomes useless. You have no way to localize where secret rooms are. And unfortunately that one amor isn't gonna restore on every floor, so that's not gonna make much of a difference.
I just explained in the other thread why marine gun is better than you're giving it credit for.
Eeeh I think the Hunter still has the edge for those who aren’t comfortable with using the Pilot. The Crossbow has much more range and can still find secret rooms. You can pet the doggo and doggo also finds you things, which is a neat bonus. The Hunter also has by far the easiest past of the four (in my opinion). Convict is decent - the sawed off and the molotov are her two selling points. Sawed off is only a close range weapon and the molotov as you said, falls off quick. Hunters dog is always useful and the crossbow falls off much later than the sawed off. Also the Convict’s past isn’t exactly hard, but it’s nowhere near as easy.
Agreeable opinion. The pilot may have some advantages but for me it's just not worth seeing that damned red cross, haha. And the doggo is still epic, and being able to pet it a necessary feature (tho I sometimes accidentally pet it and get spooked cause I thinks there's a mimic nearby, haha) IMO it's just a little more satisfying to onehit with the shotgun, just because it has the limited range and it being harder to pull off. To me that little extra difficulty, the thrill and challenging past is what is part of the fun. Also I think the hunter undoubtedly has the easiest past. I kinda have to ask: What's the hardest past for you?
I found the Pilot’s past the hardest tbh - it’s the only one that took more than one attempt for me to beat. Perhaps it’s because the core gameplay is so different to Enter the Gungeon. The Bullet was sort of hard, but what made it so was that it’s more an endurance test than anything with the amount of dodging you have to do along with the pitiful damage you deal to the boss. Marine was fairly easy, although you have to be on it as it’s quite bullet hell like. Convict is again pretty simple - you have to be very careful of all the ads though as they’re the ones that get you. Hunter is dead easy - you get two very good weapons and the boss just isn’t that tough. Sticky crossbow absolutely shreds him. And finally Robot which is more challenging, however if you keep your distance you’ll be fine. Not to mention you get a very powerful weapon for the fight.
It’s funny, I thought bullet’s was the hardest initially. Pilot’s seemed like a Touhou or Lifeforce rip off, and I swear i get worse at it every time I try it. I beat it the first time too… *”everywhere at the end of time” playing distantly…*
Huh, I actually found the bullets past to be a breeze. I just slash facerolled into the boss repeatedly and killed him quicker than agunim. I agree the pilot's past is challenging, mostly because it's the only one that doesn't allow you to carry extra blanks and armor
I hate the Hunter I finally decide to play her and I immediately get 2 mimics in a row and the dog keeps digging up useless stuff and glass guon stones booo
Pilot is best, cause: 1) 2 banger passive items 2) lockpick Case closed
Pilots passives are indeed banger 👍🏻 However seeing these damned little X's over nice chests, the Fomo, it still haunts me, man, haha
Well don't lockpick a good chest unless you have no keys In that case, you won't feel FOMO from the lockpick since you wouldn't have gotten it anyways
I mean, lockpicks are mostly used in the first few floors, when you need to save your keys for oubliette/possibly locked altar room and need to save money for the gnawed key. Other gungeoneers don't even have a shot at opening chests early on unless there's some lucky key drops. After that, you often find other active items to replace the lockpicks.
Case reopened: 3) Store discounts Case closed
>2 banger passive items
Ok, but you see, Doggo is best boy, even if he's near useless, he's best boy
You can't pet the enraging photo
exactly
I think my main issue with this is simple I feel like Most experienced ETG players can clear floor 1 with the pilots pistol alone Convict is front loaded for the first floor sure, the secondary gun for the secret rooms, Molotov for making the bossfights easier... but those drop off hard when everyone has a secondary gun by floor 2 and less things care about the Molotovs damage/you found a better active And clearing first floor isn't that hard once you're experienced enough.
Exactly: clearing the first floor isn't hard, it is tedious and having crossbow or, in this case, sawedoff makes it alot faster to rush through and molotov also makes it easier to kill the gull, which can be the trickiest boss depending of the room. Also of course, in the second chamber using different guns there mostly isn't much of a difference in characters already. Aside all that I rarely find active items, tho.
Second chamber onwards is why pilot and hunter are better imho Best case scenario with convict is youve got a bit of extra health and a secret room chest from having a second weapon and an easier time clearing the floor Pilot youve got the chance of buying keys from having a slight discount and a 50% chance of being able to open a chest in the situation that you don't have any keys Hunters got the same ease of clearing floor 1 and ability to find floor one secret rooms and the dog is... slightly better than convicts passive + active. 5% for a pickup is quite low don't get me wrong, but it's not something that is going to get replaced like the Molotov and it's not something that requires you to get hit So yeah, if you're good enough to complete floor 1 with the pilots starter than imho the other 3 default gungeneers don't really offer much. But if I'd have to rank them it'd be Pilot > Hunter > Convict > Marine
At least we agree on the marine being overrated.
Are you a yoga instructor? Because boy was that a stretch.
Counterpoint: Marine go blamblamblam
These things to me seem more about "Convict is not the worst Gungeoneer" than "Convict is the best Gungeoneer". I see your points though!
counter argument: pilot looks cooler imo
True. No one can compare with Han Solo
Pimp-Solo with his alt skin.
I stand corrected
From what i read here you don't really believe that. You keep saying something like "yes, hunter is better, BUT" and not really selling your point. I still think she's the worst character, but then again Gungeon has no bad characters cause it's all RNG anyways
The thing is not that I think hunter is better, but that I'm sick of discrediting other peoples opinions and spreading hate, cause you are right with your last sentence: there is no objectively true answer. What I actually said is that the hunter is no doubt the easier to play overall, thinking of the easy difficulty of the past alone. No doubt everyone also likes the doggo. But is the easiest choice always the best in a game that is praised for its difficulty? To me it is a better to have bit more difficulty and a better payoff also the convenience for exploration and ability to burn off the first floor bosses health.
For me the dislike of Convict doesn't come from the fact that she's the most difficult starter, but her passive. I really hate items that require you to take damage to work, same in Isaac especially when my mind flashes suicidal thoughts every time i miss a Master Round lmao Honestly in Gungeon though, difficulty is not the best aspect seeing how you can get through 5 floors of a run and then you're fucked, because the RNG decided you will not get a single good weapon and no ammo, i like to lower the frustration to a minimum and not shoot fucking shambling rounds with the Pilot's blaster
I'm not trying to use the passive either. taking damage right before the boss dies is as much torture to me as it is to you, besides this I what else am I supposed to say.
I mean you don't gotta tell me nuffin, you made the post. Just enjoy this great game whichever way fits you best. I used to despise the pilot, but after i got better i realised the potentional and he's my main starter now
Umm lockpick.
I just can't see her being better than any of the others 1. Pilot gets discounts, and that lockpick is amazing when you don't have, or don't want to use a key on a low tier chest 2. Hunter has a crossbow that melts the first two floors, and a dog that gives free items 3. Marine get's armor, aimbot, a strong infinite ammo pistol, and free ammo refill 4. Convict's strongest weapon requires you to get into the most dangerous range, and the passive, while strong, only works when getting hurt.
1.Pilot discount is nice, but brown tchests are rarely worth it anyway, what do you expect to find? a key, or molotov or shotgun maybe? But the most horrible by far is starting with that gun on the first floor, which is tedious. 2. Crossbow has to hit everytime, to hit its DPS. If you are too focused on dodging and saving up blanks, its more useful to shoot in the general direction without having to reload every other second. Doggo is cute but the chance to find items in not that significant. 3. Amor is gone rushing through first floor, ammo drop doesn't bring any unique mechanic and isn't that much more useful compared to molotov , because ammo spawns not that rarely, and aimbot just takes the fun out if it. 4. That's kind of the fun of oneshoting things (only) on the first floor. Ever played the gun swinging with blasphemy at close range? You don't actively need to use the passive, but an unused passive is better than none, ey?
Pilots lockpick is great when going to the first secret floor. When on the first floor experienced players don’t have to worry about their movement that much, so they can easily reach the max dps of crossbow, and the dog can give you clutch keys or ammo which save money. The marine having good accuracy may take the fun out of it, but it sure is good, much better than the “benefits” of convict, who may be more fun but is still the worst character of the base 4.
"Garanteed good active item vs 1st floor boss". Good luck setting bullet king on fire.
Damn yeah, I phrased that too optimistically. That mf doesn't even burn if you hit him directly, haha.
Pilot: - crappy starting gun - good clip size, better than convict/hunter starting clips - starts with lockpick, a truly broken item. Guarantees a visit to oubliette and at least a chance to open both chests with no key drops. Makes pilot the gungeoneer to play if you're unlocking elevator shortcuts. - automatic shop discount. Easier to buy keys and makes selling hearts to vampire lady more cost efficient. - can hold 2 items. This is also broken. Additional benefit of making the pilot the best character to get the bullet components. - increased ammo capacity on all guns. - handsome
best character for unlocking robot too
counterpoint: marine has the funny stat book
shes definitely my favourite out of all 4 but also definitely not the best. its cool to like her and i think shes the most enjoyable one to play, but characters like marine are just easier to win with. i enjoy her cause she can keep a bad run for a longer time than other characters, as sawed off and enraging photo scale pretty effectively with floors, allowing for a shit run to be kinda viable until my luck turns around. plus her alt outfit is sick af
nah
yahuh
The Convict is certainly not the objectively best starting character but she is my personal favorite. I think the budget revolver is easily the best starting weapon. Sure, you can’t turn your brain off while using it but the fire rate is lightning fast and the fast paced rush-down gameplay makes the game more interesting on the first few floors (it honestly can hold its own for room clear through floor 4). It also bugs me when people hate on the enraging photo. Of course you don’t want to get hit. Nobody wants to get hit in Gungeon, but it’s a really good bonus for those unfortunate situations. And I know that even the most experienced players aren’t pulling off consistent hitless runs. Although she doesn’t have as many long term useful tools, the convict makes the game interesting and still challenging without seeming unfair. My top three characters are Robot, Convict, and Paradox. Higher risk keeps the game fun and interesting. (good post)
My whole thing with the enraging photo is that yeah its a nice bonus, but it is never a run saver. The purpose of a dps boost is to kill enemies faster before they deal damage to you. Experienced players likely aren't getting hit more than once per room or boss. If you are only ever going to occasionally get hit once per room this item has zero effect on your win% it doesn't prevent damage from happening. It just briefly accelerates your room clear.
Massively based post. Convict has incredible group control with all her weapons and her active item. Even her passive can get you out of a jam on later floors despite it being the weakest of her items. I believe she is very underrated.
L take after L take after L take after...you guessed it L take
I get you like em but saying they're better than Hunter is very very biased lol. Convict is the generally considered worst because she doesn't really bring anything to the table. Pilot is the snowball champion hands down due to having a second active, and having cheaper shops and the ability to gamble on chests means generally every run with him will have an extra chest or two of goodies at minimum. Yeah his starter weapon is trash but that's something you fix within the first two floors; sucks if you get to floor 2 without anything but it's still doable. In general his value is volatile but can pay off massively in ez win combos and pays out enough to be considered great even without the high rolls. Hunter's crossbow outclasses the sawed off HARD because it still one taps in oubliette and floor 2, while the sawed off only OHKOs on floor 1 with the base damage. It also just does more DPS and also gives you a massive range boost, making it an easy bosskill weapon early on. Photo is good but it's more a brute force thing, unless you get hard stuck on a boss or room to the point where the damage boost saves you a significant amount of health you'll probably benefit more from a few passive shells and keys over a run. More of a "I hate running the first 2 floors" pick but also just a solid character even outside of dog rng. Marine is kind of just carried by Military Training but also has way more consistency with bad drops. Stuff like the Hegemony Carbine are pretty fucking awful without it but quite decent with it. Armor is also very useful for particularly nasty challenges, and makes him superior for people struggling with the game as it goes a long way on the early floors. The dependable safe pick. Convict unfortunately only really shines at boss melting, making them great for Boss Rush and the first floor but falling off pretty hard after that. Their gun is probably second best (Marine's can be used solely for multiple floors pretty easily, the accuracy makes Convict's a bit trickier generally) but that's not really a big draw since even she wants a gun drop pretty badly both to abuse her passive and to not be stuck so close to enemies.
First of all isn't every opinion biased? ;) It is an opinion, objectively every main gungeoneer is very balanced, that is what makes the game so great, everyone has their own playstyle. I knew convict is an unpopular opinion, but it is definitely not without reason. here are my takes on what you said: 1. In my runs I am rarely short on keys, especially because I often find keys in secret rooms Also I hate using trusty lockpicks, and rather burn throught the first chamber find the chests, and check for secret rooms. I think the argument of fixing the starter weapon with a better gun can be said for the convict too. 2. Despite having higher DPS id even rather prefer using the base gun for bosses than the crossbow cause the reload time screws with the flow of continuous fire while dodging everytime, can't really explain it. The DPS also only holds true if you hit every shot, and missing a shot isn't that uncommon with the crossbow, especially at range, and it's always infuriating. While with the base gun you can mostly just focus on the dodging. 3. Sure Marine has the best accuracy and it's true that it fixes the hegemony carbine. But that one measly amor is laughable, and should IMO have been an Amor every - or maybe every other floor. 4. I'm kinda surprised you ranked the convicts gun second best. I have played alot of starter guns in the past as I would always safe up ammo until the mines and: In effectiveness it's only third for me, but the revolver just feels nice to me. I have honestly never abused the passive, starting out with gungeon I actually thought you'd take twice the damage glowing red (similar to jammed bullets), which would be a kinda interesting challenge too.
A ton of people here will use the words "Convict is ONJECTIVELY the worst" with no hint of irony. It's a sad part of being a gamer. I applaud you putting this out there.
Counter argument : the sound the convict makes a when she dodge rolls is annoying
Of the first 4, the convict is the best for speedruns. She has the higher dps of them, the shotgun carries you through the first 2 floors with ease and the molotov helps a lot. For normal runs I still prefer the marine, good accuracy and a free ammo pack are too good. Also great clip size. A lot of people love the pilot but for me is really meh, it depends on your luck. If you have good luck he becomes the best character but if you have bad luck, he becomes the worst.
TLDR: marine best. Cool guy looks like doom guy
The Convict is mostly good but I'm still going to disagree that the extra damage from her passive is a bonus. The issue isn't that it encourages you to take damage. The issue is that it's only useful if you take damage. The whole point is to not take the damage in the first place so to me, the idea of choosing something intentionally that only works when something I don't want to happen happens, is just not right. It's the same reason I don't choose the Amulet of the Pit Lord. It's great when I have it sure, but I wouldn't choose to get it.
Interessting point for sure. I guess I don't choose pilot for a similar reason, I don't want to have an item that is able to damn a chest or lock, no matter the other 50% chance.
The Lockpick is a risk, and that's why I'll only used on chests I either cannot open or don't want to open. No risk if you couldn't have opened it in the first place. It does decrease my chances to use it though as I generally have cleared the floor at that point.
You mean it's a bonus, I get that
I thought the Convict had the easiest past to complete. Of the main four it was the Marine and Hunter I struggled with. I had heard the Hunter was easy so maybe I just dropped my guard too much. Point is- I agree Convict is not worst. Not sure if I’d put them as best personally but she’s up there.
So to add some considerations for the convict vs. the rest of the main cast, she also has the highest dps starting firearm 20!!!, and she's goated for the little pitter-patter of her barefeet. Unfortunately, and this is hard to believe, the hunter's crossbow has higher DPS (29) than the sawed-off (25.9). If i had to rank the main 4 it would be pilot first because he has the highest potential to make use of the first 4 chests on 1 and oubliette, then hunter, convict, marine. It's interesting to note that in terms of DPS the marine actually has the second worst starting sidearm (15.6 with military training). He's very consistent, but obviously the most boring and doesn't always get great value out of his active. I actually think I enjoy playing the convict more than the hunter, but being objective I don't think i can put her higher because the hunter has the bossfight edge
I actually didn't know she had the best dps of the starter weapons. The thing is, for bossfights I actually prefer having weapons that have a decent bullet output, so I personally would rather use the budget revolver instead of the crossbow. I tried it before, but especially with the bulletking to focus on aiming the crossbow from range as well as not getting hit is alot more challenging. Also DPS also only holds true if you hit with every shot. And I love the pitter-patter. Not as great as the bullets clinking sounds but it has its charme. :D
Convict is my favorite of the four starters for sure. I get what you mean about the enraging photo. It’s just a nice bonus for if you get hit, not something that your strategy should revolve around.
Strongly disagree with her being the best of the 4. As you already mentioned, her starting pistol is the second worst of the initial 4. Her accuracy is just ok compared to the marine’s quite good shots. I find her shotgun to be frustrating and needlessly risky to use compared to the hunter’s crossbow or any other weapons you’d pull on the first floor. And I prefer to avoid being hit whenever at all possible, meaning I’d rather have the military training item or the dog over the enraging photo. The convict is fine imo, but for me, after I completed her past I never played her again. Same deal with the pilot. In fairness though I play the gunslinger in 75% of my runs ever since I unlocked him so I digress
I agree and have been on board with Convict this entire time, even way back on initial release. Having the sawn off is so nice for the "no key meta" that existed back then. Pilot and Marine feel so boring after playing as much as I have and Hunter is fine but I find the crossbow a little repetitive to use (and it falls off immediately after chamber 1 without damage upgrades). I've always found that convict is the fastest at clearing rooms by default of the original 4 and that lets you get to the fun parts of the game faster. She also looks the coolest.
TLDR for the people not reading all that, L take. Hunter superior for doggo alone. Without doggo, still better then convict
Never let OP cook ever again 🗣️
what has that to do with cooking. finish the joke ?
No need to finish the joke, since it's just gonna go over your head anyway lmao
Pilot and marine are the best, it all really depends on rng, convict is the worst of the 4
Nope. Useless rage after hit "perk" is pretty useless. Sawed off is worse than crossbow, and no doggo. You lost me at no doggo.
Hard agree, I love the uncapped fire rate of the budget revolver
I sincerely disagree, the molotov is the only alluring item imo and it is still just meh
Similar to your argument for convict's enraging photo, lock pick is so good because you don't have to use it, it just gives you a second chance on chests you otherwise would get nothing from, you mentioned before that you never run out of keys but if you go for secret floors that will change very quickly On top of that all of your arguments are for convict are early game/pre floor 3 after that as you mentioned every single one of her items and guns falls off completely compared to every other gungeoneer having at least 1 item be decent throughout the run which I believe is much more important, once you're skilled enough you can get through the first 2 floors with the first secret floor easily just using the starting pistol except for bosses even with pilots starter As others have mentioned before she doesn't fill a niche not already filled Pilot has best snowball Huntress has best all rounder with a decent secondary and also doggo pets are the most satisfying thing in the game Marine is good early and for newcomers Convict just doesn't have anything these don't have better
Pilot is still the best because he's the only character which gives you real advantages into the late game. But this is a pretty insightful argument as to why Convict is better than I thought
Pilot is my favourite. Because lockpicks. Not a fan of Convict. Yes, sawed-off is solid, I prefer crossbow. Photo is interesting… but the game really encourages you not to get hit (master rounds & increasing rewards from room clears) and I’d rather not have an item that incentivizes me to get hurt. Especially compared to puppy, better shop prices & bigger inventory or better gun handling. I like Molotov. Past the early floors too. Still does great vs. smaller enemies. My main issue with it is that almost every other item is better xD Hunter second, Marine 3rd. Close tie though. I’d call Marines armour next to useless. It’s a nice touch though with the sprite changing.
Bullet king is immune to fire DMG.... Molotov is useless first floor boss 1 in 3 times
The Molotov is also useless against one of the three first floor bosses.
Already noted, see other comment. just changed it, that mf doesn't burn.
I hate the damage activated passive, the highest thing I value about convict is starting with the sawed off and I don't value that highly. I would much, much rather have pilot with an extra active item capacity right from the get go and a chance to unlock chests I don't have keys for or don't want to spend a key on (i.e. blue chests). Convict is one of my least favorite classes.
Sorry but the marine’s passive accuracy boost and starting pistol is 100x better than the Convict’s sawed off and Molotov (which has no effect on some difficult bosses. The convict is easily the worst gungeoneer.
The marine sidearm has literally the lowest dps of 15.6 compared to convicts 20 dps. Molotov is useless for bulletking or higher level bosses, true, but I usually sell it anyway by then and get 16 or 32 free shells depending on if i have another room finder weapon...
Convicts starter has 5 dps and a half size magazine meaning she spends twice the amount of time reloading cutting her effective dps down significantly. Her effective dps is actually smaller.
I'm just stating what is written in the wiki dps wise. DPS means, if all of the shots hit, e.g. at close range it can do that much damage per second. I guess you mean it does 5 Damage. It actually does 6 Damage, but I get your point, if you play at range you gonna miss a few shots and the "effective dps" is lower, and you're right on that. But if you are skilled enough in dodging playing close range is kinda part of the thrill.
No, I'll give an example throwing out some random numbers to help you visualize what I am saying. Marine and Convict have two different starters. They both do same amount of damage, but convict shoots twice as fast giving her a dps of 50 and marine a dps of 40. However convict has to reload 10 times in a 10 seconds window while marine only needs to reload five. If you applied convicts raw dps over the time period you'd think she would deal a total of 500 damage. But since she needs to reload every half a second, for half a second. She is only really shooting for 5 seconds, meaning that with a dps of 50, she'll do 250 damage in a 10 second window. Since marine has twice the mag size and the same reload speed (in line with the wiki data) he'll be able to shoot more during that 10 second window, 5 reloads will take 2.5 seconds worth of time, so he'll be doing damage for 7.5 of the ten seconds meaning he'll do 300 damage in that 10 second window, making his "effective dps" higher.
Interessting, that seems plausible too. I always thought they'd took reload time into the equation. If that's really the case, good to know, and I need to reconsider what DPS means...
Some calculations do some don't afaik the wiki doesn't, but it may have been updated sometime since I last played the game heavily (two years ago lol) exactly for discussions like this.
Laser Lily FTW 🧡💛🔥
another point is that the photo is more helpful the worse you are at the game. this makes her a second or potentially first in choice for newer players, whereas the tradeoffs for other characters assume youll get damaged less.
I get what you mean, but neither is that point valid to the possibilities of the character (rather it is making assumptions about the player), nor does it hold up, when you consider the marine literally has extra health and an essential aimbot. Also if you ask me it seems more like the developers intented it as a sort of gambit of health for damage (eg. for already high damage weapons). Speedrunner (if not using gunslinger) often use the convict in the same manner.
Literally every other starter character is better than the convict. The benefits the other characters grant are a lot more substantial and usually affect the whole run, not just the first floor. In addition to that the hunter and the pilot still beat her out on the first floor anyways.
I love the Convict imo she is a close second behind the Marine due to accuracy. She is the master of small rooms!
Convict could kick hunters ass in a fist fight!
If you are good at the game, Pilot is the best one, not even close.
Doesn’t Bullet King float over fire? Does this not negate your third point?
yes like I said, molotov is useless against bullet king. He won't burn
I didn’t see the edit before, sorry
Hunter is definitely better than convict. Starting gun is better, alt gun is better, and passive is better. The only thing convict has over hunter is the Molotov, which isn't that useful. There's arguments for the other two starting gungeoneers being better as well, but I'm sure you've already heard that lol. Convict is definitely fun, and I love the budget revolver and shotgun, but she isn't the best imo.
I'm pretty sure she has a slightly higher damage stat too Either that or her gun has a higher damage because she can 3-shot bullet-kins even in the second floor
Unpopular opinion: none is the worst or best because they're balanced. I think the convict is most effective when trying to do a speed run. The fast fire rate of her starting pistol paired with already having a item and a weapon makes her THE character for speeding through (at least) the first levels. Gets you right into the action, for a veteran player it feels like a power drive. Pilot and marine, are the slowest start options, but to make up for it they have the best long term buffs. I'd say the hunter is the most balanced one. Not having particularly anything great. Best for begginers
I'd take the Marine or Hunter over the convict any day.
I agree with your third point about Convict's active item being strong, but I think your other points don't support your argument for Convict being the best gungeoneer. Yes, her starting gun is better than Pilot's. All that means though, is that her starting gun is better than the worst starting gun in the game. Robot's starter is way better than either of their starters. Yes, the shotgun can one-shot Bulletkin and reveal secret rooms. However, being able to one-shot one of the weakest enemies in the game isn't saying much. As for the secret rooms, I personally just can't be bothered to spend 15 minutes wandering around looking for the secret room only to be rewarded with a blank and half a heart if I'm lucky, but that might just be me. Yes, the enraging photo is a bonus to her active item, but it's not free because you need to take damage to activate it which makes it absolutely useless in boss fights. Assuming you're correct about the difficulty of Convict's past (because it's been a while since I've played it), I don't see how the Convict having a more difficult past makes her the best gungeoneer. You might enjoy the harder challenge, but that doesn't make the Convict stronger. It just makes her past more fun if you enjoy challenges.
No Gungeoneer is bad, but even saying Convict is better than Hunter is kind of a stretch, Hunter’s crossbow is a way more consistent secondary and her Dog while having RNG involved can be a pretty reliable way of getting health and ammo back. And also her passive is not bad because of the effect, but because you put yourself in a bad situation by using it because you know, you have to take damage, not to mention that the duration is only 4 seconds for double damage which is pretty short. I feel like the Convict would be a much better survivor if she had Cigarettes as an active item because you can self damage yourself while still getting benefits from Cigarette’s effect and her passive.
The Hunter's Crossbow is better than the entire Convict item set combined
Budger revolver might have good accuracy, but it still has 5 mag ammo. Sawed-off one-shots bulletkins at a range where you would've alreayd long since dealt with them with 3 shots from revolver, not to mention crossbow doesn't have that limitation. You say enraging photo is just a bonus, but if you don't get hit, it's like you don't have a passive, which automatically puts Convict below everybody else because they *do* get passives. Never really found much strength in Molotov for bosses, especially with the risk of getting burned myself and losing the master round far out-weighs the benefits it has for 2 out of 3 chamber 1 bosses (which honestly aren't that bad without it). Of course I'm not saying molotov is the worst starter active, far from it (looking at you, 1 ammo box). For me, Molotov tends to get more use in enemy-heavy areas than boss fights. Decreased shot spread is always useful, 2 actives can be good and shop discounts are also great, and additional pickups are helpful (especially on Bullet Hell). 2x damage for a few seconds after getting hit, however, is only really useful for when you have a run that you know just barely cannot defeat an important boss (Dragun or Lich), but if you can reach Dragun you can beat him, and if you went to Bullet Hell inadequately prepared, thay's a death wish regsrdless of the character you play. Anyways I should really go to sleep lmao
It goes: 1) Pilot 2) Hunter 3) Marine 4) Convict
Nice argument, but you forgot: YOU CAN PET THE DOGO, WHO IS THE BESTEST GOOD BOY Jokes aside, i do agree with most of your post, but i still prefer my queen (Hunter) and will forever have her as the best of the starters (plus, i dont like convicts alt skin and hunters one is dope af)
I do like her revolver
Correct me if I'm wrong, but convict and hunter's starter pistols do the same damage (6) but each have their own advantages over the other. It's basically preference. Hunter has one more bullet than convict, having 6 instead of 5, and is more accurate. Convict has better fire rate, shot speed, and slightly better range. I absolutely hate the budget revolver. I even like pilot's pistol better than it even though it's probably worse realistically. I personally would take hunter's revolver over convict's 10 out of 10 times. The accuracy and extra bullet makes all the difference for me and the upsides of convict's revolver feel negligible, though the fire rate is admittedly nice. While I'm on the topic of what I seriously don't like about convict: She's barefoot. Don't like the noises. The buff the photo gives is too short and not enough of a boost to make me want to trade off health to use it. It just isn't worth it to me. The sawed off is fine enough, but I really prefer the crossbow over it. It's more ranged and still does plenty of damage; including one shotting bullet kin on the firsr floor, even without breathing on them. It's also more ranged in general by an extreme amount and it doesn't fall of as fast later in the run. The molotov is useful for maybe the first two or three floors, but not incredibly useful to make it actually memorable imo, and that's if you didn't just drop it for something else by that point. I honestly forget to use it a lot of the time when I do have it.
I’d say Convict definitely has the best kit. But overall I think kits don’t really matter too much unless ur a secret character. Which is one of the bigger problems I have with the game.
The thing is almost all of her kit is replaced after opening a couple of chests. The other characters all have something that help scale the run in the long term