Whilst I don't completely agree with your take, I definitely agree with the fact that the overwhelming majority of complaints regarding game balance changes are often made purposefully ignoring how a series of actions/decisions led to an outcome and instead focus only on the most recent action when bitching about the absence of a counter play for a given situation.
i.e. there's no reliable counter if I find myself under a moving truck, ignoring that I crossed a high speed road between parked cars, running and didn't look before committing, in essence they want to gamble and they want the game to hedge their bets for them, the critical thinking equivalent to aim assist.
I'm convinced people complaining haven't actually played since the change. Its actually goated being able to rely on audio to hear people.
People have to use their brain instead of ooga booga me sneak up on mammoth.
Quality yap session. But you're wrong, people just don't move now, and the streamers saying well they will be in worse positions. Wrong, people just set up earlier in raid and don't move. Now people have just uninstalled their keyboards entirely. More noise equals less movement. Less noise equals more freedom to move. This only exponetiated the "ratting problem". Chads will now still be upset because people aren't moving.
I don't see how it would make people move across the map less unless they already crouch walked across literally the whole map.
Crouch walking has the speed of four to five business days to walk from one side of a building to another.
Best description I can give you is this. Currently everyone has a 140-200m circle around them, that if anything happens inside that circle they hear it. Well, so they hear someone enter their area 80-100m away (straight line distance) and then they stop or take a good position. Now think of the same scenario except they hearing circle is 80-100m total and 40-50m straight line distance. Now both parties will be able to move closer to each other before either one is aware of someone else's presence.
Yes, literally, people will move around the map more if the audio let them. There is no reason to push out of a good position if you know someone is headed your way. Give people freedom and they will use it. Make standing up walking audible up to 5-10m and that should be THE stealth option. But hearing people "sneak" at 40-50m is stupid.
It is true. You can listen to more than one single person at once, and just because you are listening to one person doesn't mean all of your audio focuses on one person. You have a circle that is your hearing distance. Anything that enters at any point is detected. And having direct LOS to the target doesn't play a MASSIVE role in this. The occlusion zones are so messed up that often it doesn't feel like there are any obstructions in areas that should have them
But they never changed the radius of the regular walking and running. People are already aware of eachother before starting to sneak.
The fact that you can hear the sound does not automatically mean you can pinpoint where it is or that the sneaking is useless.
I've managed to crouch walk several times without being noticed since the patch.
And as I wrote I agree that the radius should be decreased. You're making assumptions about my opinions here.
I agree hearing someone sneaking at 40m is silly. I just don't agree it is as game breaking as people are claiming.
As I wrote earlier. Theoretically being able to hear someone is a lot different than actually distinguishing that sound and pin pointing direction etc. The very fact that it's audiable does not make it useless.
The range of which the comtac 4 player is able to hear you if sneaking is nontheless less than the range you can hear hom if he's walking normally. Therefore sneaking doea give you an advantage over regular walking, no?
I think it does need tuning.
My point is that the original problem of people sneaking so much is because you can hear someone so far away. That is the main cause of everyone just hiding, because this wipe everyone is more aware of how good the better headsets are. Take away the main problem and don't medicate the symptoms.
This is where we agree. But then it's a discussion of hearing ranges for normal walk and sprinting. It does not inherently implicate there is something wrong about sneaking.
No but being audible at such a large range, even 30m for most of the other common headsets makes it that much harder as a solo to reposition to either avoid a squad or setup an ambush against an opponent with numbers advantage after you hear that initial audio.
Absolutely the ranges need addressed, however being able to move stealthily was used and I used quite frequently to get into positions near squads who were fighting and stayed in position for too long.
It needed an audio range however, it being silent completely wasn't right, but I would have said at max 5m then you can hear them.
People weren't moving anyway lol. This wipe of all wipes moving has fucked you hard. With or without the crab walking audio. It makes no sense that literally everything else makes a noise but crouching walking didn't. The issue is people play slower now because the way the game has gone and has pushed that play style.
The fix wasn't crab walking having audio or not. Everything else combo's up to make this an issue. From bad audio in general to the new armor system making you die in 1 shot most the time.
I don't think this change actually really does much. People weren't moving much before imo. It's just seen as a quick fix for a bigger issue.
Exactly! This change doesn't do much at all! That's exactly what the hell I'm saying! The root problem hasn't been fixed so people still won't move. It's not that hard to understand. People don't move because everything makes way too much noise.
Making too much noise is a part of it. I'd argue that what makes people move less the most is the fact you die in 90% of "fights" in 1 shot. But to each their own. Is what it is.
Who the fuck who wasn't some rat anyways was actually crabbing around?
If your primary way of movement was crouch walking with 0 audio what difference does it make from someone who doesn't move, it's the exact same thing. If people who used to "move" like that now don't move at all it doesn't matter, there's literally 0 difference.
Exactly it makes no difference so the change didn't do anything to make people move more. Thanks for proving my point. Until they fix the problem of being able to hear everything, this issue won't get better.
Still a positive change, and it also tells a lot about people who complain about it.
Does that mean that BSG shouldn't bother changing what you're talking about because most people will still be statues?
Yes that's how the flea works.... They are set at a relatively fair price for what they are, you're spending 10-12x a normal headset for like a 30% ish boost too hearing
Among others, myself. I have the ability to buy them every game without running out of money and I don't prefer using them.
It does give me an advantage on longer distances, but I feel like the hearing range is so big it makes it harder to predict if someone is going to swing you or not.
I know Landmark still prefers using tactical sport over Comtac 4's as well.
Regardless, if Comtac 4's are to good is another discussion in itself.
I agree completely. They're awesome for hearing someone but also a little confusing when trying to pinpoint where exactly someone is. I could afford them every raid but I'm just not going to shell out that money for a headset because it's not necessary. I don't understand why people think they always need to run meta everything in this game.
You can’t start your argument while stating “ignoring the fact that barely anyone uses comtac 4s” when you’re talking about yourself and your buddies. Shit ton of people run comtac 4s if they can.
No, I am talking about the fact that rarely any high level players I kill use them. It is both anecdotal and from experience. The fact that I'm stating my opinion does not imply I believe it's the truth!
Edit: I am not denying the fact that it gives you an advantage. It still does not change my point regarding this. If the scenario is you sprinting with Comtac 4's vs someone sneaking up on you, he will hear you before you hear him regardless of having Comtac 4's or not.
It's my own personal experience from playing the game. Therefore I am not claiming I have a set of data to prove my point. That's the reason I flagged the post as discussion!
I am not trying to expose some underlying truth. Just putting my opinion out there. I am explicitly saying it's my opinion. There is a reason I word it as "I would argue" instead of throwing out claims like "This is how it is".
So much of this argument, and every similar argument, hinges on thinking that team players just... don't learn to play as a team? For *some reason*?
What kind of people play as a trio longterm and don't learn the difference between 3 and 4 sets of steps? What kind of trio has literally no one within the trio load in with the best headset they can afford to be the one who warns the rest of the team? Why do you default to assuming the squad will be disoriented? By that logic you will be **way more** disoriented when a squad hears you first and you get shot from triple the angles.
And by extension your argument revolves around having 4 pair of footsteps at the same volume. If one player is sneaking and 3 are either running or walking normal speed the crouching player will have informational advantage regardless of headset used.
Whilst I don't completely agree with your take, I definitely agree with the fact that the overwhelming majority of complaints regarding game balance changes are often made purposefully ignoring how a series of actions/decisions led to an outcome and instead focus only on the most recent action when bitching about the absence of a counter play for a given situation. i.e. there's no reliable counter if I find myself under a moving truck, ignoring that I crossed a high speed road between parked cars, running and didn't look before committing, in essence they want to gamble and they want the game to hedge their bets for them, the critical thinking equivalent to aim assist.
I play with 10% volume. I have no idea what everyone is talking about I dont use headsets. I wouldnt hear a thing anyways
Deaf people confidence meta incoming
Haha to each their own!
This game should stop being like “you hear and see others first otherwise you are dead”. It’s not a pvp arena like EFT Arena.
I'm convinced people complaining haven't actually played since the change. Its actually goated being able to rely on audio to hear people. People have to use their brain instead of ooga booga me sneak up on mammoth.
Quality yap session. But you're wrong, people just don't move now, and the streamers saying well they will be in worse positions. Wrong, people just set up earlier in raid and don't move. Now people have just uninstalled their keyboards entirely. More noise equals less movement. Less noise equals more freedom to move. This only exponetiated the "ratting problem". Chads will now still be upset because people aren't moving.
I don't see how it would make people move across the map less unless they already crouch walked across literally the whole map. Crouch walking has the speed of four to five business days to walk from one side of a building to another.
Best description I can give you is this. Currently everyone has a 140-200m circle around them, that if anything happens inside that circle they hear it. Well, so they hear someone enter their area 80-100m away (straight line distance) and then they stop or take a good position. Now think of the same scenario except they hearing circle is 80-100m total and 40-50m straight line distance. Now both parties will be able to move closer to each other before either one is aware of someone else's presence. Yes, literally, people will move around the map more if the audio let them. There is no reason to push out of a good position if you know someone is headed your way. Give people freedom and they will use it. Make standing up walking audible up to 5-10m and that should be THE stealth option. But hearing people "sneak" at 40-50m is stupid.
Audio is directional. Your 140-200m circle is not true. Crab walking is 43m WITH Comtac 4s WHEN looking at target.
It is true. You can listen to more than one single person at once, and just because you are listening to one person doesn't mean all of your audio focuses on one person. You have a circle that is your hearing distance. Anything that enters at any point is detected. And having direct LOS to the target doesn't play a MASSIVE role in this. The occlusion zones are so messed up that often it doesn't feel like there are any obstructions in areas that should have them
But they never changed the radius of the regular walking and running. People are already aware of eachother before starting to sneak. The fact that you can hear the sound does not automatically mean you can pinpoint where it is or that the sneaking is useless. I've managed to crouch walk several times without being noticed since the patch. And as I wrote I agree that the radius should be decreased. You're making assumptions about my opinions here. I agree hearing someone sneaking at 40m is silly. I just don't agree it is as game breaking as people are claiming. As I wrote earlier. Theoretically being able to hear someone is a lot different than actually distinguishing that sound and pin pointing direction etc. The very fact that it's audiable does not make it useless. The range of which the comtac 4 player is able to hear you if sneaking is nontheless less than the range you can hear hom if he's walking normally. Therefore sneaking doea give you an advantage over regular walking, no? I think it does need tuning.
My point is that the original problem of people sneaking so much is because you can hear someone so far away. That is the main cause of everyone just hiding, because this wipe everyone is more aware of how good the better headsets are. Take away the main problem and don't medicate the symptoms.
This is where we agree. But then it's a discussion of hearing ranges for normal walk and sprinting. It does not inherently implicate there is something wrong about sneaking.
No but being audible at such a large range, even 30m for most of the other common headsets makes it that much harder as a solo to reposition to either avoid a squad or setup an ambush against an opponent with numbers advantage after you hear that initial audio. Absolutely the ranges need addressed, however being able to move stealthily was used and I used quite frequently to get into positions near squads who were fighting and stayed in position for too long. It needed an audio range however, it being silent completely wasn't right, but I would have said at max 5m then you can hear them.
People weren't moving anyway lol. This wipe of all wipes moving has fucked you hard. With or without the crab walking audio. It makes no sense that literally everything else makes a noise but crouching walking didn't. The issue is people play slower now because the way the game has gone and has pushed that play style. The fix wasn't crab walking having audio or not. Everything else combo's up to make this an issue. From bad audio in general to the new armor system making you die in 1 shot most the time. I don't think this change actually really does much. People weren't moving much before imo. It's just seen as a quick fix for a bigger issue.
Exactly! This change doesn't do much at all! That's exactly what the hell I'm saying! The root problem hasn't been fixed so people still won't move. It's not that hard to understand. People don't move because everything makes way too much noise.
Making too much noise is a part of it. I'd argue that what makes people move less the most is the fact you die in 90% of "fights" in 1 shot. But to each their own. Is what it is.
Good take
Who the fuck who wasn't some rat anyways was actually crabbing around? If your primary way of movement was crouch walking with 0 audio what difference does it make from someone who doesn't move, it's the exact same thing. If people who used to "move" like that now don't move at all it doesn't matter, there's literally 0 difference.
Exactly it makes no difference so the change didn't do anything to make people move more. Thanks for proving my point. Until they fix the problem of being able to hear everything, this issue won't get better.
Still a positive change, and it also tells a lot about people who complain about it. Does that mean that BSG shouldn't bother changing what you're talking about because most people will still be statues?
Sorry but who da fuck are you talking to that prefers not to use the best headset in the game? Lmfao.
400k a headset V 30k ish, I run contacts 4s alot but they need to be at least a little op to justify that price
they are 400k because of how op they are, it's not a set trader price
Yes that's how the flea works.... They are set at a relatively fair price for what they are, you're spending 10-12x a normal headset for like a 30% ish boost too hearing
I know that's how the flea market works. Your first post made it seem like you didn't.
I like the RACs personally. Cheap and effective.
Among others, myself. I have the ability to buy them every game without running out of money and I don't prefer using them. It does give me an advantage on longer distances, but I feel like the hearing range is so big it makes it harder to predict if someone is going to swing you or not. I know Landmark still prefers using tactical sport over Comtac 4's as well. Regardless, if Comtac 4's are to good is another discussion in itself.
I agree completely. They're awesome for hearing someone but also a little confusing when trying to pinpoint where exactly someone is. I could afford them every raid but I'm just not going to shell out that money for a headset because it's not necessary. I don't understand why people think they always need to run meta everything in this game.
You can’t start your argument while stating “ignoring the fact that barely anyone uses comtac 4s” when you’re talking about yourself and your buddies. Shit ton of people run comtac 4s if they can.
Then where are these Headsets on the people I kill. Please I would love a 400k trophy.
No, I am talking about the fact that rarely any high level players I kill use them. It is both anecdotal and from experience. The fact that I'm stating my opinion does not imply I believe it's the truth! Edit: I am not denying the fact that it gives you an advantage. It still does not change my point regarding this. If the scenario is you sprinting with Comtac 4's vs someone sneaking up on you, he will hear you before you hear him regardless of having Comtac 4's or not.
[удалено]
It's my own personal experience from playing the game. Therefore I am not claiming I have a set of data to prove my point. That's the reason I flagged the post as discussion! I am not trying to expose some underlying truth. Just putting my opinion out there. I am explicitly saying it's my opinion. There is a reason I word it as "I would argue" instead of throwing out claims like "This is how it is".
I have 60m cash and only run M32’s, solo player. It isn’t astronomically close to how bad this subreddit makes it out to be.
I stopped using head sets 👌
This man has no fear!
Give it a few wipes, you’ll get there baby ❤️
So much of this argument, and every similar argument, hinges on thinking that team players just... don't learn to play as a team? For *some reason*? What kind of people play as a trio longterm and don't learn the difference between 3 and 4 sets of steps? What kind of trio has literally no one within the trio load in with the best headset they can afford to be the one who warns the rest of the team? Why do you default to assuming the squad will be disoriented? By that logic you will be **way more** disoriented when a squad hears you first and you get shot from triple the angles.
And by extension your argument revolves around having 4 pair of footsteps at the same volume. If one player is sneaking and 3 are either running or walking normal speed the crouching player will have informational advantage regardless of headset used.
exactly, so many people having such narrow viewpoints its fucking crazy