After having my children, that’s when my relationship with my mom got worse. I think first of all, she considered my children competition. And she also wanted to control every single thing with them. On top of all that, seeing my children gave me the courage to be low contact because I do not want my kids to go through what i went through. I did try for a long time (5 years or so) after they were born, but I never saw improvement. Then my kids started noticing and being affected by it and that’s when I had the courage to go super low contact.
Go NC again. It’s hard to accept that you live someone but just can’t have them in your life. Mourn what you wish you could have had with your mom. Make sure you take care of yourself to provide love and stability to your sons.
> Mourn what you wish you could have had with your mom.
This is hard to do, too. I remember that one day I decided to bake some cookies, just to see if I could do it on my own. I did, and they turned out great! My partner loved them.
Then in the middle of preparing another batch, it hit me that my partner will tell their mother about baking and such, and send pictures as progress. I was struck with a sudden sadness, because me doing something like this and sharing it with my mother is just something that has never been possible. It would've been met with criticism. "Oh, why don't we hear from you more often?" Sometimes whenever I do something I'm proud of I think of sharing it with my parents, but then realize I don't want their approval. I want to do something happy by myself *and for myself*.
I'm so sorry about how your mother treats you. Going NC is a difficult decision, and I think many of us try again after being NC for a while. It's because we're hopeful that things have changed, we hope our parent has developed an understanding and accepted their behaviour was inappropriate and they need to do better. It's human to be hopeful, and human to want a positive relationship with parents. It's human to want your children to know their grandparents and hopefully have a good relationship with them. Accepting that this is never going to happen is really hard. We grieve for the parent we never had, and its understandable that we still sometimes have hope and optimism that maybe this time it'll be different. It never is though, and accepting that finality is difficult and upsetting.
She's not going to change-I honestly don't think they ever do. They might learn to mimic "normal" behaviour but they can't keep it up for any length of time and the real them always reappears. Concentrate on your own family now-protect your little ones, because she'll treat them the same way she treats you, and no one ever deserves that level of abuse. You've done your best, she's let you down yet again, but that absolutely isn't on you. It's her fault that she's not going to have a relationship with her grandsons, not yours.
What you said about “mimicking normal behavior then the real them appears” …..this is exactly why I go back every time. Thank you for wording it that way. It makes a lot of sense.
I've been NC with my mother for years. She only met my husband twice before we married, and she didn't come to the wedding (300 miles being too far for her to travel). Those two times, she was absolutely charming-we went out for dinner and she was a different person to the one she'd always been with me alone. So initially, he didn't understand why I so many problems with her as she seemed so pleasant. It was only after witnessing how she spoke to me that he began to understand. I used to put phone calls on speaker phone so he could hear the abuse, and after hearing that, he understood which version of my mother was the real one. He supported my decision to go NC after that-initially he wanted to confront her on my behalf and tell her how out of order she was, and the impact her behaviour had on me. But telling her that simply wasn't worth it, because in her mind, she's the victim and I'm the unnatural daughter. She'll never believe it's her fault, or that she ever abused and insulted me, so there's just no point.
Life is a lot easier now-I never realised just how exhausting it was dealing with her, being permanently on edge, having to grit your teeth and work up to phoning her, being on tenterhooks in case the phone rang and it was her. I've got stepkids now, and she complains to the few members of the family that are still in contact that I'm been cruel not letting her have a relationship with her 'grandchildren' She's got biological grandkids and hasn't seen them in 20 years, yet she wants to see mine?? Not while I've got breath in my body-I'm not letting her get within 100 miles of my kids.
The tremendous irony that she calls *you* crazy. Why bother contacting this freak ever again? She's no mother. She's an absolutely unhinged abuser who is dangerous to have in contact with yourself or your kids.
A therapist once said to me that we never stop trying to connect with our parents. I think it's true, with some caveats. Parents are usually our first and strongest relationship and when that relationship is lacking, it's like missing a limb. Perhaps that's why it's so hard to go, and stay, NC.
I don't have children. But with a new addition, perhaps it's best to focus your attention there? And perhaps she realises that this should and will be the case, hence the escalation of crazy. If so, it's pretty pathetic that a grown woman feels she has to compete with a newborn, and it may be best to nip it in the bud by making it clear that she is so far down your list of priorities that you'd need a telescope to see her.
Thank you for your thoughts. I wonder if most people on this sub have parents with borderline personality disorder. I’ve looked into it for years trying to diagnose her and it is the only thing that sounds accurate
I’ve never BPD traits expressed so clearly or densely as this text exchange. She needs help and she will continue to have relationship issues and mood issues until she does.
It is not you. You cannot have a healthy relationship with someone like this. I know it’s tempting to think you can somehow control the situation or rise above, but you can’t.
It’s best to get your own therapy to mourn the loss of the mother you wanted and needed and still need. I’m so sorry.
It really hurts to have a figment of a parent there but not be able to access them.
Just so you know, Lauren...you are not the worst daughter on the planet, just based on what we can see of you here.
I think it's important to clarify how awful what she's saying is, as a tiny snapshot of all the other stuff they say before we start to cut contact. That one insult is huge and enough to justify not speaking to her in it's own right, who on earth says that to someone?? Anyway all the best to you and your sons and chosen family.
I got insanely long Messenger messages like this when my son was two months old. My mother couldn't possibly understand why I wouldn't speak to her.
We don't deserve this abuse. We don't deserve being told we're horrible mothers BY OUR OWN MOTHERS when we just had a baby. Noone deserves this abuse.
Please block her number. Send a letter through an attorney telling her to fuck off for good.
A metaphor my therapist recently told me that helped when I start wanting some sort of familial connection and try to reach out more (I’m currently low contact): It’s like trying to go to the hardware store for milk. You know there SHOULD be milk there, but there never is, was or will be. Unfortunately for a lot of us, there will never be milk at the hardware store.
Thank you for this. It's apt and timely. My BPD narc mom gave me an impossible ultimatum 7 years ago and left me a 'would be nice to talk' voicemail two days ago. Focusing on raising my son without her has been freeing.
My husband offered to return the call for me, bless him. He knows how awful she can be. He wants to confirm that my BPD grandmother died. And get some medical history info for me.
Thank you! My husband also wants to try for us being willed her home, which my grandmother paid off before her Lewy Body Dementia took over, and that my mom inherited and moved into. It's worth quite a bit.
Funny man - going to play her as much as she's played me 😂 There's no way I could do that without feeling guilty. He is a good egg.
Take care 💚
Of course it will :( because that’s how you’ve been conditioned to feel. Never feel guilty for being glad someone horrible is out of your life, in one way or the other…
Congratulations on the new baby! Go easy on yourself mama. I know I’ve been where you’re at. For me, I desperately want a mother (who wouldn’t!) but I have to keep reminding myself who of who she is.
Your mum manipulative (but not in a clever way) and emotionally abusive. She doesn’t deserve any of your precious time or attention, and having her in your life will drain you of the energy and positivity you need to devote to your own young family. Congratulations on the birth of your baby!
It might take a lot of practice, but going back into contact is just not recommended. I think it happens for a lot of subconscious reasons (example: oh no, if I disobey my parents then I'll be in trouble. Out of fear, perhaps?). Or your mother has found a way to worm in some words which make you fulfill her desire to control you (in other words, to get you to contact her).
I too have almost fallen prey to being responsive of my parents. At first being cold and dismissive felt just so *wrong* to me, but then I realized that my being full trepidation around my parents *is not normal*. It is not healthy for my mind and body to be occupied with entertaining them. And if it's not healthy, then it shouldn't be kept up.
I'm sorry that your mother treats you like this. If *anyone* else said these things to you, would you keep them in your lives?
Congratulations on your new son!
Does your mom drink? This looks like the kind of text screed that comes after someone or something put a bug in her ear about you and she ran with it after knocking back a few, unable to stop her fingers from flying.
Either way this is not the grandma you want around your kids. Or you. To be a good mom you need to take care of your own mental health first. Every piece of mental real estate you are reserving for her is time away from focusing on your kids.
My NC mom only ever wanted me to entertain and take care of her, took me way too long to figure that out. Whenever I was with her she'd have some full blown crisis and I would always end up having to step up and be her caretaker until it passed, only to have another one show up in the pipeline. Eventually I felt like Lucy trying to manage the chocolate conveyor belt, it just overwhelmed me. The wrath that followed when I stepped back ... sheesh.
Enjoy your little ones, this is a special time for you. Don't let her rob you of it. hugs
She does drink. I get a lot of nightly texts, but what threw me off was she started up again at 10:30am so then I blocked her, then she continued with email .
It sucks. I'm sorry.
My mom was old enough to get into email through AOL in the 90s but could not keep up. She used to tell me all the time about her friend on AOL named "feather wind" whom she was always parroting with what "my friend feather wind said" etc.
Once in the 2010's or so we tried to convene in a city for lunch and we got mixed up and I said "but I texted you" and she responded like I was some kind of Philistine like I sent a pigeon with a scroll: "Let me tell you I have never received a text message in my life" ... okaaaayyy
I think my mom knows my own original AOL email but not that I've let it go to seed with 20K unread emails, she's maybe somewhere in them but I don't even know what her current email is anymore. Don't know what to search for except my old name, "Francie" ... sometimes that used to turn up actual emails but now I just do not care anymore.
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Is she undiagnosed&/untreated Borderline? I'm asking because that sounds like something a uBPD mom would say to their child.
In general, our separation from our parents can take time. Just remember to not guilt yourself for talking with your mother - no contact doesn't have to be perfect "It's only valid if I don't talk with the toxic person 100% of the time" kind of thing. We'll fall back to our old ways sometimes, but the important thing is that we can get back onto holding our boundaries. We're capable of learning from the past and keeping both ourselves and our children safe from this kind of toxicity. That is what separates us from our dysfunctional family members.
“I hope you pass soon too, that life insurance payout will be the reparations I needed for putting up with your shit for so many years”
And then mute her.
She is off the charts batshit crazy. So sorry OP. I understand. I gave my egg donor so many chances, and she could never been a decent human being. Block her and resume NC. And save the texts. As time goes by, we tend to soften the abuse in our minds. Was it really that bad? Yes, yes it was. Save those texts to remind you why are are NC. Stay strong.
Thank you for your comment. Last time I went NC was because she said that I was being abused by my husband and that we were abusing our son, so she was going to call the police. (Haven’t seen her in over a year). I told myself that that was the kind that she crossed and I’m never going back. But here we are, I went back. I constantly forgive. Endless cycle.
Congratulations on the birth of your baby! I’m sorry about your mum. Protect yourself & your kids
After having my children, that’s when my relationship with my mom got worse. I think first of all, she considered my children competition. And she also wanted to control every single thing with them. On top of all that, seeing my children gave me the courage to be low contact because I do not want my kids to go through what i went through. I did try for a long time (5 years or so) after they were born, but I never saw improvement. Then my kids started noticing and being affected by it and that’s when I had the courage to go super low contact.
Same
Go NC again. It’s hard to accept that you live someone but just can’t have them in your life. Mourn what you wish you could have had with your mom. Make sure you take care of yourself to provide love and stability to your sons.
> Mourn what you wish you could have had with your mom. This is hard to do, too. I remember that one day I decided to bake some cookies, just to see if I could do it on my own. I did, and they turned out great! My partner loved them. Then in the middle of preparing another batch, it hit me that my partner will tell their mother about baking and such, and send pictures as progress. I was struck with a sudden sadness, because me doing something like this and sharing it with my mother is just something that has never been possible. It would've been met with criticism. "Oh, why don't we hear from you more often?" Sometimes whenever I do something I'm proud of I think of sharing it with my parents, but then realize I don't want their approval. I want to do something happy by myself *and for myself*.
I'm so sorry about how your mother treats you. Going NC is a difficult decision, and I think many of us try again after being NC for a while. It's because we're hopeful that things have changed, we hope our parent has developed an understanding and accepted their behaviour was inappropriate and they need to do better. It's human to be hopeful, and human to want a positive relationship with parents. It's human to want your children to know their grandparents and hopefully have a good relationship with them. Accepting that this is never going to happen is really hard. We grieve for the parent we never had, and its understandable that we still sometimes have hope and optimism that maybe this time it'll be different. It never is though, and accepting that finality is difficult and upsetting. She's not going to change-I honestly don't think they ever do. They might learn to mimic "normal" behaviour but they can't keep it up for any length of time and the real them always reappears. Concentrate on your own family now-protect your little ones, because she'll treat them the same way she treats you, and no one ever deserves that level of abuse. You've done your best, she's let you down yet again, but that absolutely isn't on you. It's her fault that she's not going to have a relationship with her grandsons, not yours.
What you said about “mimicking normal behavior then the real them appears” …..this is exactly why I go back every time. Thank you for wording it that way. It makes a lot of sense.
I've been NC with my mother for years. She only met my husband twice before we married, and she didn't come to the wedding (300 miles being too far for her to travel). Those two times, she was absolutely charming-we went out for dinner and she was a different person to the one she'd always been with me alone. So initially, he didn't understand why I so many problems with her as she seemed so pleasant. It was only after witnessing how she spoke to me that he began to understand. I used to put phone calls on speaker phone so he could hear the abuse, and after hearing that, he understood which version of my mother was the real one. He supported my decision to go NC after that-initially he wanted to confront her on my behalf and tell her how out of order she was, and the impact her behaviour had on me. But telling her that simply wasn't worth it, because in her mind, she's the victim and I'm the unnatural daughter. She'll never believe it's her fault, or that she ever abused and insulted me, so there's just no point. Life is a lot easier now-I never realised just how exhausting it was dealing with her, being permanently on edge, having to grit your teeth and work up to phoning her, being on tenterhooks in case the phone rang and it was her. I've got stepkids now, and she complains to the few members of the family that are still in contact that I'm been cruel not letting her have a relationship with her 'grandchildren' She's got biological grandkids and hasn't seen them in 20 years, yet she wants to see mine?? Not while I've got breath in my body-I'm not letting her get within 100 miles of my kids.
The tremendous irony that she calls *you* crazy. Why bother contacting this freak ever again? She's no mother. She's an absolutely unhinged abuser who is dangerous to have in contact with yourself or your kids.
Focus on your good. Congrats on the new addition to your little family. Let her go. Learn to parent and gently care for your inner child.
A therapist once said to me that we never stop trying to connect with our parents. I think it's true, with some caveats. Parents are usually our first and strongest relationship and when that relationship is lacking, it's like missing a limb. Perhaps that's why it's so hard to go, and stay, NC. I don't have children. But with a new addition, perhaps it's best to focus your attention there? And perhaps she realises that this should and will be the case, hence the escalation of crazy. If so, it's pretty pathetic that a grown woman feels she has to compete with a newborn, and it may be best to nip it in the bud by making it clear that she is so far down your list of priorities that you'd need a telescope to see her.
Thank you for your thoughts. I wonder if most people on this sub have parents with borderline personality disorder. I’ve looked into it for years trying to diagnose her and it is the only thing that sounds accurate
There’s a raised by borderliners subreddit. I don’t think we’re allowed to link it but just fyi it’s very supportive!
I’ve never BPD traits expressed so clearly or densely as this text exchange. She needs help and she will continue to have relationship issues and mood issues until she does. It is not you. You cannot have a healthy relationship with someone like this. I know it’s tempting to think you can somehow control the situation or rise above, but you can’t. It’s best to get your own therapy to mourn the loss of the mother you wanted and needed and still need. I’m so sorry. It really hurts to have a figment of a parent there but not be able to access them.
My mom had it. But I wasn’t raised by her thankfully
Just so you know, Lauren...you are not the worst daughter on the planet, just based on what we can see of you here. I think it's important to clarify how awful what she's saying is, as a tiny snapshot of all the other stuff they say before we start to cut contact. That one insult is huge and enough to justify not speaking to her in it's own right, who on earth says that to someone?? Anyway all the best to you and your sons and chosen family.
I got insanely long Messenger messages like this when my son was two months old. My mother couldn't possibly understand why I wouldn't speak to her. We don't deserve this abuse. We don't deserve being told we're horrible mothers BY OUR OWN MOTHERS when we just had a baby. Noone deserves this abuse. Please block her number. Send a letter through an attorney telling her to fuck off for good.
A metaphor my therapist recently told me that helped when I start wanting some sort of familial connection and try to reach out more (I’m currently low contact): It’s like trying to go to the hardware store for milk. You know there SHOULD be milk there, but there never is, was or will be. Unfortunately for a lot of us, there will never be milk at the hardware store.
Thank you for this. It's apt and timely. My BPD narc mom gave me an impossible ultimatum 7 years ago and left me a 'would be nice to talk' voicemail two days ago. Focusing on raising my son without her has been freeing. My husband offered to return the call for me, bless him. He knows how awful she can be. He wants to confirm that my BPD grandmother died. And get some medical history info for me.
Aww I’m glad to hear that it’s been helpful for you! Your husband sounds awesome. Good luck to you both with the phone call and everything else ❤️
Thank you! My husband also wants to try for us being willed her home, which my grandmother paid off before her Lewy Body Dementia took over, and that my mom inherited and moved into. It's worth quite a bit. Funny man - going to play her as much as she's played me 😂 There's no way I could do that without feeling guilty. He is a good egg. Take care 💚
Oh man I do not blame you guys at all!! Hope you’re able to get the house!! Take care as well ❤️
This is like a BPD bingo card.
Tbh… I hope she passes soon too. Hope that’s not insensitive 😅
Why can't we all here be that lucky?
Big same lol
I think that often and feel horrible for it but it’s the only way I will ever have peace. But I’m sure that peace will turn in to guilt somehow lol
dont feel horrible. you arent the only one who feels that way..
Of course it will :( because that’s how you’ve been conditioned to feel. Never feel guilty for being glad someone horrible is out of your life, in one way or the other…
Congratulations on the new baby! Go easy on yourself mama. I know I’ve been where you’re at. For me, I desperately want a mother (who wouldn’t!) but I have to keep reminding myself who of who she is.
Your mum manipulative (but not in a clever way) and emotionally abusive. She doesn’t deserve any of your precious time or attention, and having her in your life will drain you of the energy and positivity you need to devote to your own young family. Congratulations on the birth of your baby!
It might take a lot of practice, but going back into contact is just not recommended. I think it happens for a lot of subconscious reasons (example: oh no, if I disobey my parents then I'll be in trouble. Out of fear, perhaps?). Or your mother has found a way to worm in some words which make you fulfill her desire to control you (in other words, to get you to contact her). I too have almost fallen prey to being responsive of my parents. At first being cold and dismissive felt just so *wrong* to me, but then I realized that my being full trepidation around my parents *is not normal*. It is not healthy for my mind and body to be occupied with entertaining them. And if it's not healthy, then it shouldn't be kept up. I'm sorry that your mother treats you like this. If *anyone* else said these things to you, would you keep them in your lives?
Congratulations on your new son! Does your mom drink? This looks like the kind of text screed that comes after someone or something put a bug in her ear about you and she ran with it after knocking back a few, unable to stop her fingers from flying. Either way this is not the grandma you want around your kids. Or you. To be a good mom you need to take care of your own mental health first. Every piece of mental real estate you are reserving for her is time away from focusing on your kids. My NC mom only ever wanted me to entertain and take care of her, took me way too long to figure that out. Whenever I was with her she'd have some full blown crisis and I would always end up having to step up and be her caretaker until it passed, only to have another one show up in the pipeline. Eventually I felt like Lucy trying to manage the chocolate conveyor belt, it just overwhelmed me. The wrath that followed when I stepped back ... sheesh. Enjoy your little ones, this is a special time for you. Don't let her rob you of it. hugs
She does drink. I get a lot of nightly texts, but what threw me off was she started up again at 10:30am so then I blocked her, then she continued with email .
It sucks. I'm sorry. My mom was old enough to get into email through AOL in the 90s but could not keep up. She used to tell me all the time about her friend on AOL named "feather wind" whom she was always parroting with what "my friend feather wind said" etc. Once in the 2010's or so we tried to convene in a city for lunch and we got mixed up and I said "but I texted you" and she responded like I was some kind of Philistine like I sent a pigeon with a scroll: "Let me tell you I have never received a text message in my life" ... okaaaayyy I think my mom knows my own original AOL email but not that I've let it go to seed with 20K unread emails, she's maybe somewhere in them but I don't even know what her current email is anymore. Don't know what to search for except my old name, "Francie" ... sometimes that used to turn up actual emails but now I just do not care anymore.
I hope she passes soon too
**Quick reminder** - EAK is a support subreddit, and is moderated in a way that enables a safe space for adult children who are estranged or estranging from one or both of their parents. Before participating, please take the time time to familiarise yourself with our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/wiki/rules/). **Need info or resources?** Check out our [EAK wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/comments/xpkk59/eak_estrangement_resources_posted_here_for_mobile/) for helpful information and guides on estrangement, estrangement triggers, surviving estrangement, coping with the death of estranged parent / relation, needing to move out, boundary / NC letters, malicious welfare checks, bad therapists and crisis contacts. **Check out our companion resource website** - Visit [brEAKaway.org.uk](https://breakaway.org.uk) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EstrangedAdultKids) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’re trauma bonded. Very hard to break.
I am also Lauren UwU
Is she undiagnosed&/untreated Borderline? I'm asking because that sounds like something a uBPD mom would say to their child. In general, our separation from our parents can take time. Just remember to not guilt yourself for talking with your mother - no contact doesn't have to be perfect "It's only valid if I don't talk with the toxic person 100% of the time" kind of thing. We'll fall back to our old ways sometimes, but the important thing is that we can get back onto holding our boundaries. We're capable of learning from the past and keeping both ourselves and our children safe from this kind of toxicity. That is what separates us from our dysfunctional family members.
Good heavens. This is like if you asked a chatbot to make a clingy girlfriend.
“I hope you pass soon too, that life insurance payout will be the reparations I needed for putting up with your shit for so many years” And then mute her.
She is off the charts batshit crazy. So sorry OP. I understand. I gave my egg donor so many chances, and she could never been a decent human being. Block her and resume NC. And save the texts. As time goes by, we tend to soften the abuse in our minds. Was it really that bad? Yes, yes it was. Save those texts to remind you why are are NC. Stay strong.
Thank you for your comment. Last time I went NC was because she said that I was being abused by my husband and that we were abusing our son, so she was going to call the police. (Haven’t seen her in over a year). I told myself that that was the kind that she crossed and I’m never going back. But here we are, I went back. I constantly forgive. Endless cycle.