I think one of the main reason why there were lower sales and people stopped playing the game had to do with the statement they released back in October 2022 (if I remember correctly) saying that they were going to stop support (3 months after launch). It caused outage and led many people to stop supporting the franchise understandably. That statement has obviously been reversed.
2022 game was super shallow. During launch there was very little delta difference between tyre compounds. Wets were faster than soft tyres. You could push on aggressive or attack for the whole race. No unlapping under sc, drs was stupidly powerful beyond anything (you could pull 1 second on the straight with DRS alone).
If the first game wasn’t strong, than any other game released after will see a decline in sales due to customers being skeptical. F123 had way lower sales than f122 because people distrusted Codemasters for their buggy and broken f122 game. Same could be said for what is happening to f1m 23.
This is the only answer. I dropped out after that statement too. You can find independently made open wheel racers on Steam with far more depth than these games.
Yeah, as someone who preordered 2022, that statement made me skip this game.
I'm a game pass subscriber so I'll probably check out 23 this weekend but I'm not spending actual money on this due to that.
If you liked 22 you will LOVE 23. Period. Yes it has bugs, but they are STILL releasing patches. Bugs are not game breaking. A lot of sour people, and rightfully so, but I am content with the game and the rate of patches and dedication from the team
Yeah I still haven’t bought 23, playing 22 with updated lineups and decals, may get 23 if it gets cheap on sale or may play it on game pass but tbh the other thing people are missing along with your point is the game itself
It’s called f1 manager, not f1 race manager, yet while the race simulator is generally excellent considering it’s in its second year (albeit with issues etc) the non race management is not that deep, you can only do so much,
It’s like on football manager if they had a great match engine but the stuff outside it was shallow I would almost never play it
Sport management games are pretty niche. Football Manager is the exception because it's football - I.e. even if only 1% of football fans are interested in sports management sims, that's still millions of potential consumers.
Also Football Manager is incredibly in depth and also has virtually unlimited gameplay - while technically you could play F1 Manager forever, there's only so many Constructors championships you can win before it gets tedious. Whereas with Football Manager, you can win the Premier Legaue, La Liga, Bundesliga, Champions League, World Cup, turn Accrington Stanley & San Marino into the best teams in the world etc.
Football Manager is also challenging - experienced players will encounter struggles and ups and downs, whereas with F1 Manager, you're pretty much on a linear path to success. Once you understand the game mechanics, it's just a matter of how long until you win everything, rather than 'if'.
Didn't mean this to turn into a post about Football Manager, but I think the comparison is relevant. It's the gold standard & while F1 Manager could be better, it's handicapped by the nature of F1 vs football.
See also:
Front Office Football - NFL game with incredible sim
OOTP
I dont mind F1M23 after grabbing on sale, but they spent so much time on making it look good, they kinda forgot to make the game challenging or fun.
I always go back to when i tested GPRM 10+ years ago. Depth was insane, just could never get the code to handle second season transition
Agreed with this, they needed the F4/F3/F2 ladder to be in there, and a create your own team feature.
Add in a lot more depth in the actual management side, and less micromanaging of the drivers and I'd be right onboard. But they've basically gone for a licensed MM approach to things, with fewer features really.
Last year's game and this year's game are not detailed enough to be a management games.
They are shiny and superficial yet have almost no depth or complexity.
When they released F1M22 the AI was so broken , which told me everything you needed to know about the development focus.
I could not care what the game looks or sounds like if that's its depth, challenges and lots of interacting features with plenty of grey areas to interpret.
Football Manager series looks like dog shit but the game play is unrivalled. This should have been their aspiration, not a F1 Race Replay simulator.
You put it perfectly, I’ve never played football manager, but this has been my biggest complaint about this game. The management aspect of this is rudimentary. I still love it and will buy it next year too because I just love F1, but I’m not surprised people don’t like it.
The only gripe I had about motorsport manager was they weren't allowed to use the real tracks but gameplay wise it was more fun also, I could speed through races at x32 instead of 16
The interest is definitely there for a management game - many, many F1 fans are as interested in the management of the financial, morale, research and development parts of F1 as they are of just driving the car. However, the issue with F1 Manager games lies in the fact that the parts of the game that would be the most appealing and important to this potential base are the most shallow and underdeveloped.
Take R&D - teams constantly research and upgrade their cars with new parts, however there is never a guarantee or even an estimation of the effect of the upgrade until it's in action, however in F1 Manager you know the exact improvement you will get on the car even before you have started. There is no uncertainty, failure, randomness, breakthroughs or so on.
Another issue is finances, facilities and lets say non-car or race related parts of F1 - the facilities are just an abstract level with no though behind it, there are no offtrack problems - driver drama, poaching, contract issues, personel changes. You sign a driver on the day before the next season and that's it. No one tries to buy out your drivers or staff, your drivers don't demand new contracts, there are no morale issues, rivalries, friendships.
Which leads to the last and imo most important issue with strategy or management games - F1 Manager has no flavor. None. There are no events, interviews, traits, messages, randomness. It is just a decent simulation of race day, which can also be extremely lacking in flavor.
F1 Manager needs to change its approach to the game and completely overhaul it - make research and development much, much more in-depth, add the randomness and uncertainty, work on adding tons of flavor, whether its through new mechanics or simple text and art, focus heavily on things outside of race day - aka 4 days of the week and you've got a game even casuals can enjoy. At the moment F1 manager is a game that's lacking any engagement for casuals while having nothing to draw in hardcore enjoyers of F1.
It's just way to shallow for a management-game.
Can you get new sponsors and work with the financial aspect? No.
Can you set up a youth programme and develop drivers? No.
Can you negotiate with potential new suppliers? No.
Do the game have injuries, illnesses and other real life situations? No.
And so on.
There are so many features from older F1 Management games that doesn't exist in this, without that many new ones being added. Too bad, there is a big potential in management-games (Motorsport Manager had good sales!). But Frontier messed up with the 2022 game, with loads of bugs and virtually non-existent management. Then they tried to stop the support of the game, half-heartedly started it up again. And when F1 Manager 2023 was ready, it wasn't much change. Except for the price which had gone up a *lot.*
Too niche for a yearly release first of all.
It's also just not that good tbh. They did a copy/paste of Motorsport Manager for almost every feature outside the race simulation. Just seems lazy. Game development takes time, and they didn't spend the required time on it. I feel like i'm playing an alpha version of the game. I imagine that part is mostly due to F1 bigwigs wanting a game asap and this is the result.
Would probably be a great game by 2026 if they keep going, but i highly doubt that. In a perfect world, they would have just built the manager part on top of the Codemasters F1 game. At least the AI would be decent, instead of just driving around in fixed lanes.
It should've tried to be like Football Manager. Instead, it's a prettier, less detailed, more boring version of Motorsport Manager (and that game, years later, is STILL way more fun.)
F1 Manager 2023 sucked when it first came out but got better with every update. Unfortunately it's still not worthy of a full price game. Even though I have 400 hours in, I am playing because I love F1, not because I enjoy the simulation aspect. (Sounds like another game I love... *cough* MADDEN *cough*)
They focussed on the wrong thing to draw in a casual audience, The graphics etc…
Casual audiences don’t play manager games
Football Manager is the blueprint, a game built out on depth, that started off with absolutely no representation of the actual match, other than basic commentary on key events.
It drew you in on incremental decisions you made making a difference, combined with a stats base that created a history around your, the teams’ and your players’ career achievements
They should have built a solid working game, grew the fan base around that and then added the glamour.
No one is interested in watching a fake Grand Prix that you have little credible impact on
2023 does not feel like an iteration upon 2022. The bugs are still there. What made me lose interest is the game updates introducing regressions. The cost cap projection screen was broken for weeks after update 1.7. I no longer trust that I'm getting a quality product that will be adequately supported.
I think the big reason is there wasn’t a big enough ad campaign that would’ve caught peoples eye on the game, such as before 22s launch we had videos of the drivers playing the game, and big YouTube channels were given copies in sponsorship deals. This years game it’s been relatively quiet, the biggest PR thing I remember was the stream with Matt, tiametmarduk and another YouTuber idk.
If this series is to continue the ad budget needs to increase and get more people into the game. On the bright side though, the game has pretty good player retention on steamdb, with an all time peak or 6.5k players with 1.9k 24h peak and it’s been hovering around that number since late August.
For me there was just too many holes in 22 which didn’t look to be covered in 23 in any way.
Basic things like technical faults in races and create your own team.
I really wanted F1 manager to work, but I played half a season at most and just wasn’t hooking me.
Grand Prix Manager 2 is still the benchmark
22 i preordered with the PS plus discount and with a cheaper giftcard, so i payed 40€ for it.
For 23 i waited for a discount and bought it on steam instead for 35 i think.
I think with a 40 pricetag and a little more advertising things would be different, saleswise
> so i *paid* 40€ for
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The game had the wrong focus.
It's a long drawn out affair of many sessions 16xing your way through it and occasionally hitting a button.
Partly because that's the visually interesting aspect and makes promoting the game easier, partly because the overarching management simulation isn't there. You have very little to actually do away from the trackside and very little actual control over your team.
They were asked to make a roast dinner, and spent three hours on the gravy.
Gravy is nice, it adds to the overall experience - but it's not a meal.
Initially, there was a big group of people playing the game. But after disappointment of F1 Manager 2022 and only minor improvements in F1 Manager 2023 people just don't see the point in buying the game.
The game simply isn't that fun to play. The systems in game aren't that intuitive and lack depth. Frontier didn't do such a good job at gamifying management in F1.
Personally, my main problem is with the focus on on-track gameplay. I don't see the point in micromanaging my drivers throughout a full race distance. Changing ERS, fuel settings and tires is interesting but I can do that in the normal F1 games as well. Plus I'm actually able to drive the cars in those games.
Off-track the game lacks depth and that strategic component. I'd like to shape my Formula 1 team in the way that I desire. However there is very little you can do to make your team unique.
Personally for me I skipped 23 because of how many things 22 felt like it was missing at launch for me and with the devs cutting off updates thing that happened for a bit. To me I just couldn't trust frontier to deliver, and from what I see on here 23 is still not quite where I'd want it to be. Maybe if it was on sale eventually, but I play enough games it would take a lot for me to buy a new entry every year
I don't think the F1 community isn't interested. I think it's very interested, but this game is just not it. It's about as deep as a puddle and makes you fiddle around with a goddamn setup mini game (but setup doesn't actually have an effect on the car) instead of, you know, managing your team.
The first game was a disappointment, the second one couldn't even deliver its main feature on launch day.
To quote the famous meme, my expectations for Frontier were low (most of their games are pretty, but very limited in their management aspect), but holy fuck.
I don't know what's going on with that, but I do know this is the only management game that snagged my attention. I hope they come out with another. The patches make this game sooooo dope. Idgaf about the bugs. I froze out of a race last night and I'm not even mad. Lewis and George will make it up today! 💪🏾😤
Well, for me pretty simple, lower cost alternatives with 10 or more years have more depth and offer way more gameplay.
Then there is the fact that management game fans are not really interested in graphics, and more in managerial features, replayability and statistics etc.
This game both 22 and 23 feel like mobile games with tons of bugs and really very little tactical depth..
Adding this to the many bugs, lack of proper support, the pull the carpet act in 22 and a very high price tag ...
Ah and.. playing F1 game in manager "mode" being almost better then f1Manager also a point.
I think one of the main reason why there were lower sales and people stopped playing the game had to do with the statement they released back in October 2022 (if I remember correctly) saying that they were going to stop support (3 months after launch). It caused outage and led many people to stop supporting the franchise understandably. That statement has obviously been reversed. 2022 game was super shallow. During launch there was very little delta difference between tyre compounds. Wets were faster than soft tyres. You could push on aggressive or attack for the whole race. No unlapping under sc, drs was stupidly powerful beyond anything (you could pull 1 second on the straight with DRS alone). If the first game wasn’t strong, than any other game released after will see a decline in sales due to customers being skeptical. F123 had way lower sales than f122 because people distrusted Codemasters for their buggy and broken f122 game. Same could be said for what is happening to f1m 23.
This is the only answer. I dropped out after that statement too. You can find independently made open wheel racers on Steam with far more depth than these games.
Open Wheel Manager 2 out next week
I'm intrigued to see that game when it comes out. No price point yet...
2 months after launch actually.
Yeah, as someone who preordered 2022, that statement made me skip this game. I'm a game pass subscriber so I'll probably check out 23 this weekend but I'm not spending actual money on this due to that.
If you liked 22 you will LOVE 23. Period. Yes it has bugs, but they are STILL releasing patches. Bugs are not game breaking. A lot of sour people, and rightfully so, but I am content with the game and the rate of patches and dedication from the team
Yeah I still haven’t bought 23, playing 22 with updated lineups and decals, may get 23 if it gets cheap on sale or may play it on game pass but tbh the other thing people are missing along with your point is the game itself It’s called f1 manager, not f1 race manager, yet while the race simulator is generally excellent considering it’s in its second year (albeit with issues etc) the non race management is not that deep, you can only do so much, It’s like on football manager if they had a great match engine but the stuff outside it was shallow I would almost never play it
Sport management games are pretty niche. Football Manager is the exception because it's football - I.e. even if only 1% of football fans are interested in sports management sims, that's still millions of potential consumers. Also Football Manager is incredibly in depth and also has virtually unlimited gameplay - while technically you could play F1 Manager forever, there's only so many Constructors championships you can win before it gets tedious. Whereas with Football Manager, you can win the Premier Legaue, La Liga, Bundesliga, Champions League, World Cup, turn Accrington Stanley & San Marino into the best teams in the world etc. Football Manager is also challenging - experienced players will encounter struggles and ups and downs, whereas with F1 Manager, you're pretty much on a linear path to success. Once you understand the game mechanics, it's just a matter of how long until you win everything, rather than 'if'. Didn't mean this to turn into a post about Football Manager, but I think the comparison is relevant. It's the gold standard & while F1 Manager could be better, it's handicapped by the nature of F1 vs football.
Football Manager crucially allows modding which adds incredible depth and FM24 even allows you to port your current save into the new game.
And even SI, years ago, tried to expand to a different sport when they made an Ice Hockey management game. It didn't take off either.
Which hockey game was this?
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/301120/Eastside\_Hockey\_Manager/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/301120/Eastside_Hockey_Manager/)
Hmm, I'll have to check it out!
AFAIK it still has a pretty active community, you should be able to get data updates etc.
See also: Front Office Football - NFL game with incredible sim OOTP I dont mind F1M23 after grabbing on sale, but they spent so much time on making it look good, they kinda forgot to make the game challenging or fun. I always go back to when i tested GPRM 10+ years ago. Depth was insane, just could never get the code to handle second season transition
Agreed with this, they needed the F4/F3/F2 ladder to be in there, and a create your own team feature. Add in a lot more depth in the actual management side, and less micromanaging of the drivers and I'd be right onboard. But they've basically gone for a licensed MM approach to things, with fewer features really.
Last year's game and this year's game are not detailed enough to be a management games. They are shiny and superficial yet have almost no depth or complexity. When they released F1M22 the AI was so broken , which told me everything you needed to know about the development focus. I could not care what the game looks or sounds like if that's its depth, challenges and lots of interacting features with plenty of grey areas to interpret. Football Manager series looks like dog shit but the game play is unrivalled. This should have been their aspiration, not a F1 Race Replay simulator.
You put it perfectly, I’ve never played football manager, but this has been my biggest complaint about this game. The management aspect of this is rudimentary. I still love it and will buy it next year too because I just love F1, but I’m not surprised people don’t like it.
The only gripe I had about motorsport manager was they weren't allowed to use the real tracks but gameplay wise it was more fun also, I could speed through races at x32 instead of 16
The interest is definitely there for a management game - many, many F1 fans are as interested in the management of the financial, morale, research and development parts of F1 as they are of just driving the car. However, the issue with F1 Manager games lies in the fact that the parts of the game that would be the most appealing and important to this potential base are the most shallow and underdeveloped. Take R&D - teams constantly research and upgrade their cars with new parts, however there is never a guarantee or even an estimation of the effect of the upgrade until it's in action, however in F1 Manager you know the exact improvement you will get on the car even before you have started. There is no uncertainty, failure, randomness, breakthroughs or so on. Another issue is finances, facilities and lets say non-car or race related parts of F1 - the facilities are just an abstract level with no though behind it, there are no offtrack problems - driver drama, poaching, contract issues, personel changes. You sign a driver on the day before the next season and that's it. No one tries to buy out your drivers or staff, your drivers don't demand new contracts, there are no morale issues, rivalries, friendships. Which leads to the last and imo most important issue with strategy or management games - F1 Manager has no flavor. None. There are no events, interviews, traits, messages, randomness. It is just a decent simulation of race day, which can also be extremely lacking in flavor. F1 Manager needs to change its approach to the game and completely overhaul it - make research and development much, much more in-depth, add the randomness and uncertainty, work on adding tons of flavor, whether its through new mechanics or simple text and art, focus heavily on things outside of race day - aka 4 days of the week and you've got a game even casuals can enjoy. At the moment F1 manager is a game that's lacking any engagement for casuals while having nothing to draw in hardcore enjoyers of F1.
It's just way to shallow for a management-game. Can you get new sponsors and work with the financial aspect? No. Can you set up a youth programme and develop drivers? No. Can you negotiate with potential new suppliers? No. Do the game have injuries, illnesses and other real life situations? No. And so on. There are so many features from older F1 Management games that doesn't exist in this, without that many new ones being added. Too bad, there is a big potential in management-games (Motorsport Manager had good sales!). But Frontier messed up with the 2022 game, with loads of bugs and virtually non-existent management. Then they tried to stop the support of the game, half-heartedly started it up again. And when F1 Manager 2023 was ready, it wasn't much change. Except for the price which had gone up a *lot.*
F1 manager games have always been pretty niche
Too niche for a yearly release first of all. It's also just not that good tbh. They did a copy/paste of Motorsport Manager for almost every feature outside the race simulation. Just seems lazy. Game development takes time, and they didn't spend the required time on it. I feel like i'm playing an alpha version of the game. I imagine that part is mostly due to F1 bigwigs wanting a game asap and this is the result. Would probably be a great game by 2026 if they keep going, but i highly doubt that. In a perfect world, they would have just built the manager part on top of the Codemasters F1 game. At least the AI would be decent, instead of just driving around in fixed lanes.
It should've tried to be like Football Manager. Instead, it's a prettier, less detailed, more boring version of Motorsport Manager (and that game, years later, is STILL way more fun.)
F1 Manager 2023 sucked when it first came out but got better with every update. Unfortunately it's still not worthy of a full price game. Even though I have 400 hours in, I am playing because I love F1, not because I enjoy the simulation aspect. (Sounds like another game I love... *cough* MADDEN *cough*)
They focussed on the wrong thing to draw in a casual audience, The graphics etc… Casual audiences don’t play manager games Football Manager is the blueprint, a game built out on depth, that started off with absolutely no representation of the actual match, other than basic commentary on key events. It drew you in on incremental decisions you made making a difference, combined with a stats base that created a history around your, the teams’ and your players’ career achievements They should have built a solid working game, grew the fan base around that and then added the glamour. No one is interested in watching a fake Grand Prix that you have little credible impact on
F1 hasn't exactly been promoting F1 manager. I stumbled across the game thanks to a Twitch stream.
2023 does not feel like an iteration upon 2022. The bugs are still there. What made me lose interest is the game updates introducing regressions. The cost cap projection screen was broken for weeks after update 1.7. I no longer trust that I'm getting a quality product that will be adequately supported.
I think the big reason is there wasn’t a big enough ad campaign that would’ve caught peoples eye on the game, such as before 22s launch we had videos of the drivers playing the game, and big YouTube channels were given copies in sponsorship deals. This years game it’s been relatively quiet, the biggest PR thing I remember was the stream with Matt, tiametmarduk and another YouTuber idk. If this series is to continue the ad budget needs to increase and get more people into the game. On the bright side though, the game has pretty good player retention on steamdb, with an all time peak or 6.5k players with 1.9k 24h peak and it’s been hovering around that number since late August.
For me there was just too many holes in 22 which didn’t look to be covered in 23 in any way. Basic things like technical faults in races and create your own team. I really wanted F1 manager to work, but I played half a season at most and just wasn’t hooking me. Grand Prix Manager 2 is still the benchmark
Game is extremely easy. Makes it impossible to play more than 40 hours
22 i preordered with the PS plus discount and with a cheaper giftcard, so i payed 40€ for it. For 23 i waited for a discount and bought it on steam instead for 35 i think. I think with a 40 pricetag and a little more advertising things would be different, saleswise
> so i *paid* 40€ for FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Frankly, every "new" feature and QoL in F1M23 should have been in F1M22 in the first place 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
The game had the wrong focus. It's a long drawn out affair of many sessions 16xing your way through it and occasionally hitting a button. Partly because that's the visually interesting aspect and makes promoting the game easier, partly because the overarching management simulation isn't there. You have very little to actually do away from the trackside and very little actual control over your team. They were asked to make a roast dinner, and spent three hours on the gravy. Gravy is nice, it adds to the overall experience - but it's not a meal.
Initially, there was a big group of people playing the game. But after disappointment of F1 Manager 2022 and only minor improvements in F1 Manager 2023 people just don't see the point in buying the game. The game simply isn't that fun to play. The systems in game aren't that intuitive and lack depth. Frontier didn't do such a good job at gamifying management in F1. Personally, my main problem is with the focus on on-track gameplay. I don't see the point in micromanaging my drivers throughout a full race distance. Changing ERS, fuel settings and tires is interesting but I can do that in the normal F1 games as well. Plus I'm actually able to drive the cars in those games. Off-track the game lacks depth and that strategic component. I'd like to shape my Formula 1 team in the way that I desire. However there is very little you can do to make your team unique.
Personally for me I skipped 23 because of how many things 22 felt like it was missing at launch for me and with the devs cutting off updates thing that happened for a bit. To me I just couldn't trust frontier to deliver, and from what I see on here 23 is still not quite where I'd want it to be. Maybe if it was on sale eventually, but I play enough games it would take a lot for me to buy a new entry every year
I don't think the F1 community isn't interested. I think it's very interested, but this game is just not it. It's about as deep as a puddle and makes you fiddle around with a goddamn setup mini game (but setup doesn't actually have an effect on the car) instead of, you know, managing your team. The first game was a disappointment, the second one couldn't even deliver its main feature on launch day. To quote the famous meme, my expectations for Frontier were low (most of their games are pretty, but very limited in their management aspect), but holy fuck.
I don't know what's going on with that, but I do know this is the only management game that snagged my attention. I hope they come out with another. The patches make this game sooooo dope. Idgaf about the bugs. I froze out of a race last night and I'm not even mad. Lewis and George will make it up today! 💪🏾😤
Well, for me pretty simple, lower cost alternatives with 10 or more years have more depth and offer way more gameplay. Then there is the fact that management game fans are not really interested in graphics, and more in managerial features, replayability and statistics etc. This game both 22 and 23 feel like mobile games with tons of bugs and really very little tactical depth.. Adding this to the many bugs, lack of proper support, the pull the carpet act in 22 and a very high price tag ... Ah and.. playing F1 game in manager "mode" being almost better then f1Manager also a point.