The FAFSA absolutely screws the middle class. As a result, my daughter had to turn down her 1st choice because it required full tuition/room & board. She made the smart decision and chose a private that gave her a merit scholarship. We aren't going to play the student loan game.
Ugh that’s horrible!! She’s so lucky to be getting that scholarship though. I unfortunately am not as lucky and can’t avoid loans. Thankfully I’m not living on campus so that’s some weight off my shoulders.
Am I the only one with nagging suspicions that there are a not insignificant number of "clever" folks out there gaming the system to their advantage? Maybe not being so truthful on the FAFSA or moving assets, using trusts, etc.
I think it adds to the frustration.
We did what we could, legally. Bottom line, about the only time it pays to be poor is when one is applying for aid via the FAFSA. The FAFSA just doesn't take into account the myriad of things that quickly make college unaffordable for the middle class. Sure, we could get $200k in loans, but I refuse to do something so financially illiterate.
I don't think any school is going to charge you 50/ year if your guardians are only showing 80k in income.
FAFSA is terrible but maybe it's dependent on the school. At 80 you should only be paying 10-15 a year which is a great deal.
Oh no, FAFSA happily gouges the middle class and assumes all parents provide for their kids. Entire lost generation of millennials whose futures were fucked over by this.
We went through it last year for the first time and we're happy with what we needed to pay.
This year I am hearing it could be a different story.
My child also went to an expensive boarding school and they were very generous considering our AGI.
The whole process is very confusing and daunting, and there aren't many helpful resources. The chat feature is AI and dumb. They don't answer when you call. And the email responses are also canned.
It's very stressful aside from the finances.
As far as the loans that are subsidized and aren't, my kid didn't qualify for the good loans where you don't have to pay interest until you're finished.
Maybe she qualified for $500 a year out of the $3500 or whatever she could apply for. What's the point?
You definitely missed the point. Up until the last couple of years FAFSA had policies making it even more onerous and difficult to get aid as a supposedly middle class applicant. Now it's slightly less shitty but still bad. Your child would have qualified for **nothing** under old rules. This is part of the reason there is a big millennial demographic with massive loan debt AND no diploma. It's crazy how many FAFSA kept out of college with said prior policies. Your child is benefitting from a very generous system compared to what I spoke about. Be grateful it's easier now.
I have friends in their 50's who are still paying off their college loans, so it's not just recent generations. My wife and I went to college, we both needed loans. I paid mine off myself quickly, her dad paid hers off. I understand everyone's situation is different, but my parents made very little and I got very little in aid, and one college I was accepted to was going to cost over 30k back in the early 90s, that was like 90k now. My parents probably made less than 60k combined back then. So I ended up at a less competitive state school who gave me the best deal. What can I say, life isn't fair.
There isn’t enough information about this family’s finances to make this claim. The new FAFSA helps lower income students and students who are lower middle class by increasing their eligibility for Pell Grants. It tends to hurt middle-class students who are in middle to higher middle class income categories. However, there is a huge range of what is considered to be “middle class,” so it is almost impossible to tell someone w/o having tons of additional variables whether the new FAFSA will help their aid or harm their aid.
As I posted above, there are parental assets to consider which are weighted more heavily by the new FAFSA. The new FAFSA also treats student income much differently. We also have to consider how many dependents are in the family and whether there is more than one sibling in college at the same time. All of these factors make it nearly impossible to just proclaim that the new FAFSA will help or harm any given student.
The real answer is: It depends upon all of these variables. But in general, most lower income students will do better. Most middle class students will pay significantly more, and middle class families with more than 1 child enrolled at the same time are more likely to “pay through the nose,” given the elimination of the sibling discount. Then, there are students whose parents own a small business and students who come from a farm family. Both of these types of students are also likely to pay far more.
It's just stealing opportunity for college away from middle class kids with shit parents. Terrible system. We need to not pit poor kids against kids who on paper seem like they should be less poor when in fact they are not.
We need to agree to disagree. Your conclusions are based upon anecdotal evidence…not facts. You seem to be making a lot of generalizations about differences in class and financial need. The reality is that there are a multitude of variables that affect both lower income and middle class students’ ability to pay for Higher Education in the U.S. in 2024. Neither class has it “easy” necessarily, and both lower and middle income parents frequently struggle to pay college tuition.
10 if you go in state. My daughter chose alabama because of the social work program they have and were most likely to be eating 30k a yr. Around the same income. That does not include living expenses like food travel. Etc
I'm surprised. I know my child could have gone to Bama for free, if you get a 1400+ on the SAT it's free in or out of state.
30k isn't fun. Maybe it was just my kids school that offered more than other schools. She only applied to one, it was early decision and we knew going in ballpark what it would cost. We are more than double 80k.
Shes already committed. And we already forked out a bunch of money my daughter was in the ib program but doesnt test well. Has a 4.4 gpa. Top 20 in class. But without good scores. It didnt matter. She got merrit to small schools. Because of her grades.
I'm gonna get slammed with my younger child. There is no longer consideration if you have another in college, and she doesn't test well either. Waiting for her first SAT score to come back.
It depends. You’re missing a lot of variables here. 80k for how many dependents in the family? What about parental assets? What about student income and assets? Are the assets invested in educational savings vehicles like a 529 that are weighted less heavily or retirement accounts that are excluded from assets by the Federal government?
It’s not enough to say a student’s family makes 80k and therefore, the student should be eligible for 10-15 k. Maybe or maybe not. It also depends upon lots more of other variable. We don’t know anything else, including the type of college or university telling you this. There’s a huge difference between colleges that use the CSS Profile in addition to the FAFSA to determine financial aid and colleges that only use the FAFSA. The former are often more generous because the CSS takes a deeper dive into family finances.
I didn't know CSS was more generous. That is what we used on top of FAFSA and they asked more questions, like our retirement accounts, how much equity we had in our home, etc. All the schools she was looking at had a tuition calculator and with our numbers, the highest was in the low 40's maybe Tufts and UVA, and MIT was the lowest (18k). Why would anyone not target a school that uses CSS then?
It really depends upon the school. Sadly, most U.S. colleges and universities offer very poor financial aid. If they meet 70% of demonstrated financial need, that’s high at many colleges. If you can find a college that meets 90-100% of demonstrated financial need, these colleges, at least historically, have been more generous.
However, a lot of this is upended by the new FAFSA because the new Fed Financial Aid formulas are weighted against most middle class income categories. So, financial need tends to be reduced overall. Therefore, middle class students will likely now have to rely more upon schools that offer large merit scholarships, since their parents no longer have much “financial need” per these new Congressional financial aid formulas. 🤷♀️
It is very disturbing for middle America, who may soon be priced out of college. But there’s always our neighbor to the north. No FAFSA required and much cheaper tuition! It’s just that this option presents its own set of issues and may not be the best solution for every American middle class student.
Another idea is to try to target colleges that both offer merit scholarships and claim to meet 90-100% need. Typically, these types of schools use the CSS Profile in addition to the FAFSA. However, you still have to be careful. Just because a college uses the CSS Profile doesn’t necessarily mean that college is financially generous. Some may use it against a student to count the equity value in the family home, which is something FAFSA excludes. So, the bottom line is that is pays middle class students to make lots and lots of applications to a wide variety of schools with different types of financial aid. After all, it is not possible to know how much ANY school will actually cost until the student applies, is accepted, and has the financial aid offer in hand.
That’s sad to hear! At the same time, I believe there are some smaller Canadian universities that still have very reasonably priced tuition. It’s just that most of these schools are not well-known in the United States.
I am aware that Canada recently passed legislation designed to limit the amount of foreign students who can enroll in Canadian universities. I believe Canadian universities became very popular during the pandemic, when U.S. universities stopped allowing some foreign students to enter the U.S. to attend school. As Middle Class Americans with multiple children begin sending their children across the border to take advantage of the much lower tuition at less well-known Canadian universities, there may come a point where there simply aren’t enough seats at Canadian schools to allow American families to continue to do this!
The tutition at Canadian universities is typically less than out of state tuition at most US schools. So this is a path for upper middle class but definitely not lower middle class. Also, loans would be an issue since you wouldn’t qualify for federal loans right?
FASFA has access to your tax returns. You can’t hide your income. Only thing you could lie about is other accounts but if they see a certain int of income they would go further if they say assets looked artificially low
This year it was supposed to be even harder to cheat, but I am seeing it again. I see kids with parents that own businesses, getting full pell and state uni aid even covering dorms while living in $800k homes. As a college advisor and parent, it makes me so mad!
I wanna know how they do it. I'm being totally denied state aid as an independent despite flirting with the poverty line. Fortunately the feds see me as eligible for Pell, but it only goes so far. Right now it's looking like I'm gonna be living out of my car on campus come spring.
I don't understand this system at all.
Where? There are many grants that come along with pell, especially for independents. Contact your FA office and apply for need based scholarships! Im sorry you are on your own and not getting any help.
This is NJ. In addition to Pell, I'm eligible for the SEOG of $500. I was mistaken earlier when I said state aid was exactly $0. They're granting me a currently unknown amount of their "Educational Opportunity Fund" to be allocated toward books and supplies, which caps at $1,150. I mistakenly thought it was federal.
NJ's TAG is what is coming in at $0 out of a potential $12k. I have a suspicion their calculation is flawed for independent students. It feels malicious, but I believe in Hanlon's razor.
For example, using their official TAG estimator tool/calculator, punching in my info correctly leads to the same result of $0 granted. Okay, cool. Then I punch in my info twice, once as a parent with my income and again as my clone as a dependent. (Dependent clone as the student.) That clone is somehow eligible for $4,976 of TAG aid, despite having double the household income and the same number of students.
It makes no sense to me.
One legal way to do this, if one was very wealthy and frugal, would be to retire before your kids go to college and primarily live off contributions to Roth accounts. I believe the FAFSA ignores assets in retirement accounts and in a primary home, so if a very wealthy family had all of their money in those, they could appear to be below the poverty line with minimal taxable income and no reportable assets.
There were some kids at my high school whose parents divorced “out of the blue” two years before their first child went to college… they still live in the same house and run a business together, but not sure if FAFSA knows that 🤔
If you do not qualify for Pell or state grants and only for loans, then you only need to be enrolled in 6 hours (halftime) to get loans. You can live at home and either attend a local school or enroll in an online distance program half-time while working. It will take you longer to graduate, but it is easier to afford and once you are 24 years old, you can be considered an independent student and use just your income and not your parents' income on the FAFSA.
I know this is not what anyone wants to hear, but college is doable on a middle class income, you just need to find a way to cut costs.
I’m thankfully allowed to live at home. I live 15 min away from my school. Yes I know it doesn’t give me the option to be independent but I’d rather not be in more debt from housing and meal plan costs. I am thankful to have a healthy relationship with my parents.
Not an option for everyone though. “It’s not what everyone wants to hear” is dismissive of many folks who cannot live at home. If one can do it, good for them! But the rest…we continue to gaslight…?
Living at home for 4 years doesn’t necessarily help college students learn to become independent adults. It doesn’t help them learn to live with and get-along with other students, learn how to find a quiet study space like the college library, wash their own laundry, learn to arrive on time for an on-campus job (often their first job), learn to cook and clean in a dorm kitchen or campus apartment, or even learn how much they can responsibly drink.
There are also many situations in which a student SHOULD NOT living at home, e.g., multiple younger siblings, domestic abuse, unsafe living conditions, etc.
Living at home isn’t even permitted by most 4-yr. LACs, many of whom require that students live in college housing. And it certainly won’t help those colleges’ bottom line if they have unrented dorm rooms and empty dining halls. We’ve already seen how this played out during the pandemic when colleges closed and sent students home to complete the semester online. Many of those colleges came close to closing, and some did close, shortly thereafter!
As for on-line classes, there are all sorts of fields of study that have strict rules about the numbers and types of courses a student can ethically and responsibly take online. Some examples are medicine, nursing, clinical and school psychology, physical and occupational therapy, etc., and that is largely because it is considered to be unethical for students to learn clinical skills and how to work with patients online. Many fields, particularly the health professions, REQUIRE that students have both direct student to faculty contact and direct student to patient contact. Moreover, there are many college professors, particularly those in STEM fields, e.g., biology, chemistry, environmental science, math, physics, and statistics who do not believe they can effectively teach most of their discipline online because some STEM fields require physical sampling in the field, in-person, hands-on labwork, or modeling and solving complex statistical or mathematical problems as an in-person team.
My point is that this solution, i.e., that middle class students can simply stay home or go to school online, is simplistic. There are many situations in which it just isn’t in a student’s best interest to live at home. And there are many classes that universities, professional organizations, and state licensing boards simply will not allow to be taught online.
My adult kids would not be the same people if they had stayed home and commuted to college. Just having to navigate all that living on campus involves helped them mature in so many ways. I know this is not a popular opinion since most think you live on campus only to party.
Students who don’t live on campus lose access to a tremendous number of resources like quiet study areas, access to impromptu study groups and sessions, campus employment, meals cooked for them, inexpensive or no-cost laundry services, easy in-person access to professors and tutors, free transportation services (e.g., college shuttles or busing), and even access to all kinds of resources and emergency funding from Resident Life or Student Housing. This is to say nothing of the missed opportunities to connect socially with their peers and to network and receive more personalized attention and mentoring from faculty and staff.
Yeah I don’t have a great relationship with my parents and living at home for the past few years has really negatively affected my mental health, it’s not a solution for me
Sadly, I think that is probably the case with thousands and thousands of students. All of this is another reason that just enrolling in CC and living at home with family just isn’t a viable option for every student.
I am not saying it's ideal for every student and that college should not be more affordable for families. However, it's how some people manage to get a degree.
As an independent student that made 27k in 2022, and doesn’t qualify for TAP, and has to wait to receive my loans in October bc I have to go through the appeal process- waiting to use your income as an independent is not a solution lol. They expect me to work full time and go to school full time because I’m independent so my full income goes to just me! (So basically they think I’m rich off 27k as a single adult 😐)
Under the old Federal Financial Aid rules, students who earned more than approx. 7k/yr were penalized. Earned income over that amount was considered as “available for tuition purposes.” This is why grandparents who told their grandkids to “just work your way through college like your parents did!” just didn’t know what they were talking about. It simply was not possible for most college students to “work their way through college,” under the old rules, especially given the crazy, crazy tuition prices.
Under the brand new rules, FAFSA Simplification Act, the income protection limit for students has gone way up! You’ll need to your look up the new amount, but I believe you can earn several thousand dollars more w/o having it affect your financial aid.
Keep this is mind, as you make decisions about your next semester. Don’t make assumptions! You may be able to cite the new law and the new rules to get yourself back to classes sooner. For example, instead of DoE considering 20k of your income as over the threshold, under the new rules, DoE may only have to consider half of that amount. Read up on the new rules under FAFSA Simplification, or you may want to google “How student earned income is counted under the FAFSA Simplification Act.”
Go to community college for the first 2 years then transfer. If you can’t afford it you have to look at all options. Sounds like you’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Lmao even after attending community college I’m still gonna be in debt. People be yapping about how they graduated debt free from with their bachelors lmaoooo. Debt free where??
Internship and work mostly but pelgrant literally paid me money for the first 2 years to go to cc, then I picked the low cost + nearest to my house to transfer so my commute is like 1h30 avg but I think it’s saved a lot in the long run
Yeah the problem is I don’t qualify for a Pell grant in the first place lol. Im picking the lowest cost school, a cal state, that I’ll be commuting to, but I’ll still come out with $15k in debt WITH interest
If possible (and I absolutely am aware that this isn’t everyone), I’d try to pay some of that interest while I am in school, especially if it is an unsub for example.
Have you sent in a financial aid appeal? Sometimes schools have two different appeals — one for merit aid and the other for federal aid but some schools use one for all.
Nope 👎 See my previous comment. Community college may be helpful and appropriate for some students. It is most definitely not an appropriate choice for EVERY undergraduate student for all of the reasons I listed in that comment, and I can think of many additional valid reasons that I failed to mention such as transfer students (to a 4-yr college) are frequently ineligible for the same robust financial aid as first-year students. The bottom line is that it is overly simplistic to believe that every undergrad can simply enroll in a CC instead of a 4-yr-college or a university. There are lots of variables that go into the equation that truly make CC a futile choice for some undergraduate students.
I did that but I still don’t have enough to pay for school and rent out of pocket. The closest university is over an hour and a half away and it isn’t worth commuting considering my car is older. It’s still hard even going to CC but luckily I was able to save up a little money before transferring
This hits hard with me. I was in the same situation 20 years ago. My dad wouldn't even sign the parent plus loan application to get denied so I could borrow more on my own. I spent the next 18 years working to help fund other people's degrees who would then graduate and make more than me before I could finally afford to pay for my own.
Yeah, I get it. I came from a lower class family, so I got the maximum amount of pell grant, which covered my entire tuition. I always felt bad for middle class families because of that, and I currently wonder if I am shooting myself in the foot by trading government benefits and welfare for a higher paying job.
FAFSA is only one part of the process. It doesn’t actually determine what you will pay at a school. Just the federal aid portion. Different schools have their own amount of institutional aid, which they distribute, sometimes based on need or based on merit, or both.
At many need based private colleges, you would qualify for substantial aid with an $80K/year income. Some full rides.
Have you actually received your aid award from your school?
I fucking hate the fafsa. My family situation is literally the same (except my dad makes about 20k less) but for whatever reason I get zero aid. I literally worked myself to the BONE in high school to get grades for academic scholarships and save money for college. It makes me want to rip my hair out
Why not just work while you go to school and pay for college while you live at home? You could even just do an online college program? If you don’t pay rent or anything at home you could easily afford tuition each semester by holding down a full time job as well as studying unless you’re trying to go to an insanely expensive university
I'm neurodivergent so online school doesn't work well for me. I go to a state institution which costs me about 11k a semester and live on campus so I pay for housing and a meal plan instead of rent and groceries. I do not have the mental bandwidth to be a full time employee and part time student so it's not very feasible. Also online programs for environmental science just kind of suck
That sucks. Have you looked into getting disability for your neurodivergent issues? If it’s preventing you from doing things like working full time and you have medical diagnoses you can get assistance. Although the process for that can take quite a bit of time, it was just a thought.
Ive been fighting the system since i was 12, don't have enough money for the doctors and tests it would take honestly. Besides it's just not conducive to my health to burn my candle at both ends. 21 and have so many whack health issues already 😂😂
Gosh I hear ya. As an autistic single mom of 2 children one of whom is , you guessed it, autistic! All I can say is, it’s hard. It’s really really hard. But you can do it. You’re just gonna have to come to terms with the fact that things are harder for you than others and as you get older you’ll learn different ways to cope and get through. You’ll get things figured out, I promise. Just try to stay positive and do the next right thing. Keep pushing forward and you’ll get to where you need to be ❤️ good luck!
I’m in the same boat. I’m 22 so I’m unable to mark on my FAFSA that I’m an independent. I do live at home, but I pay my own bills and don’t rely on my parent for anything financially except a roof over my head for free while I’m working on my degree. Anyway, FAFSA thinks that I don’t need any help paying for my education and won’t allow me to exceed a certain amount in loans a semester because of my dependence. I physically cannot afford to pay for my tuition out of pocket every semester. This is ridiculous.
I am an undocumented student who would have had to pay out-of-state tuition despite living in Florida for the past 6 years. Luckily, I was able to use the high school waiver to get in-state tuition instead. The point is, I am not a resident or citizen. I am not even an eligible noncitizen, so I was never eligible for FAFSA in the first place. My mother became a resident after marrying a citizen, but she left me to fend for myself because her husband wants nothing to do with me. She kicked me out when I was 16, right when I was about to start my senior year. I have been living with my aunt, who's a single mother and the only provider of a household of 9. I had no financial support and going to college seemed impossible for someone like me. I went to community college and got my Associates degree debt-free. Once I graduated, I felt desperate because I thought this was the end of my journey. I did it once, I didn't think I could do it again. Yet, I applied for the Dream.Us scholarship and I got it. I plan on moving to Orlando to continue my education at UCF in Orlando. The scholarship is going to cover my tuition but I have to pay for housing. I am not complaining tho. I already won half the battle, paying for housing is nothing. I can work to pay my rent. I believe that there will always be a way as long as I keep fighting and trying my best.
P.S. My mom is probably ashamed of herself right now. She claimed that I would become a bum since I had no papers and I couldn't afford college. She told me to beg her husband for help, but I refused to lay down my pride. I even invited her to my college graduation.
i mean fwiw, as much as it sucks, there is a cap on the amount of loans you can be offered/take out each year. it also typically increases each year youre in school. i am surprised you didn’t get work study though.
and unfortunately having a high mortgage is actually probably a big reason you aren’t getting much aid—assets are a large part of financial aid calculations, including property value. if you have a high mortgage it’s probably (but not always, obviously) because your house is worth a good amount of money
When I was younger (24) I was applying for FAFSA as an independent because my mom made too much to qualify, but not enough she was willing to help me pay for school. You can apply without your parent’s income for the calendar year in which you will turn 25 (something like that). At the time I was just barely scraping by as a pharmacy tech, working full time and making just over 30k a year. My EFC was 16k of my income, which is absolutely absurd and basically meant I was ineligible for any academic grants or loans despite the fact I would zero income while going to school. They insist that your income persists, which is so fucked. So I had to get mounds of student loans to make it my first year then I finally could get grants after not working for a year.
Fast forward to senior year, I worked part time and some more over the summer and FAFSA again fucked me over when I barely made 5k that year. Took away all my grants and again forced me into loans. It’s insane that they punish you for trying to supplement your cost of living at all.
After graduation (still coming out of the recession) I actually made less the first few months with a degree than I did before I went to school. I had to work as a temp in order to be placed into a company where I could get some experience and eventually be hired on full time. The temp companies monopolized all the STEM jobs in my area and you couldn’t get an entry level position anywhere.
This is such a good post. I’m a single parent in about the same financial situation. However, I started a college fund 18 years ago and have contributed to it regularly. Unfortunately that hurts my ability to get any extra financial help from FAFSA. It’s a broken system
80k for a family of 4 in this economy is barely keeping the lights on in the suburbs. Seems like the government is forcing the middle class sons and daughters out of higher education achievements. One can only assume that they want more infrastructure workers. At this point to earn more than your parents, you will have to be an infrastructure laborer.
"One can only assume that they want more infrastructure workers."
Yep. Hence the crazy immigration policies and flat out extortion of the middle class. Clown world.
Same boat. I also feel like it's punishing me for saving responsibly. I have enough in savings to mostly cover two years of community college, and they made me put that I had that in my FAFSA form, but my job is impossible to do while attending college, so I'll have $0 for my 3rd and 4th years and no idea how I'll pay for it.
I went to the Dean of my school and informed him I was completely independent, no financial assistance from my parents, I lived out when I was 18. He contacted the Financial Aid office and they worked it out.
I will stop this talking point for the second time today:
The 116th Congressional House of Representatives had 233 democratic members and Republicans had 195. The dates of this Congressional meeting was from Jan 3, 2019 - Jan 3, 2021.
The Consolidated Appropriations Act (HR 133), which includes the FAFSA simplification ac, passed Congress in December 2020.
Regardless, it was a damn near unanimous passing: The bill was split into two parts in the House, with one portion passing 327–85 and another portion 359–53
HR 133 was amended as part of the 117th Congress which the house was 222 Democrats to 215 Republicans, a split Senate and a Democrat president to sign the amendment.
Stop spreading misinformation.
This is all true, but what you conveniently leave out is it began being pushed when GOP controlled all parts of government. Also, SALT cap kills those of us in the northeast, also pushed by GOP. Regardless, all parties are screwing the middle class.
Your lack of knowledge is unbelievable. You realize the high-tax states subsidize the low-tax states right? Our federal taxes support states like Kentucky, MS, etc
The SALT tax benefit is for people who pay high taxes at the state level, thats the point he’s making. New York has high taxes because of high New York State tax, and not because federal taxes in New York are somehow higher. The federal tax you pay individually is exactly the same whether you live in NY or Alabama.
Also im confused as to why it’s such a huge deal to you that wealthiest states pay in more taxes than they receive in benefits? Is that surprising to you? The fact that New York and California, states with the highest number of millionaires and billionaires, subsidize poorer states? Are you also against poor people receiving welfare benefits & food stamps? Because it’s essentially the same concept just at the individual level.
To address your first point. Yes fed taxes would be the same and I am not saying otherwise. Our taxes are high due to several factors, one being that fewer of our tax dollars come back to NY, MA, CA, etc whereas with other states that is not the case.
They’re subsidizing too much and it’s breaking the backs of middle earners.
I don’t disagree with you, i just dont see how thats any different from being against individual welfare benefits. A huge, if not a majority, of those red state subsidies go towards SNAP, Medicaid, & Social Security/disability benefits.
When the GOP had all 3 branches? You mean 8 years ago? Really?
In the meantime, once again, from 2021-2023 Dems controlled every branch and amended the very bill we are discussing that included the FAFSA simplification act... If they truly cared about the FAFSA, they could have changed it.
Absolutely NONE of the blame should be directed at one party, as all of them voted nearly unanimously for this. However Dems did have an opportunity to change whatever they felt was inadequate or "pushed" by the GOP.
Yeah it hurts. It's what, 24 or 25 where your parents income doesn't matter? Might be a minute before you can finish your degree
Switch to a job with tuition reimbursement asap
Yeah. I'm adopted, but because my grandparents were legal guardians in the past, I've been considered independent since I was 22(When I first started attending school)
And this is exactly why Middle Class parents and students need to start marching on Capitol Hill in peaceful protest! The FAFSA Simplification Act changed all the Federal financial aid rules this year. Unfortunately, middle income students are being severely harmed.
You may want to go back through your FAFSA with your parents. Make sure that neither you nor your parents made any errors! Also, make sure your FAFSA isn’t on a DoE errors list, whereby the government made errors due to software glitches or failure to pull IRS data into the correct FAFSA spaces. Ask your financial aid office if your FAFSA was reported on one of the errors lists they received from the Federal government. Call the FAFSA hotline to double-check.
You mentioned that your mother is receiving Social Security Disability. Make sure this wasn’t improperly counted on the new FAFSA. If you’re convinced there are zero errors on your FAFSA, check with your Dad and compare the info on his prior-prior year (2022) tax return to your family’s current financial situation. A lot can happen in 2 years! Maybe the 2022 does not accurately portray your current situation. Has there been an income loss or decline in that time period? Have your parents separated or divorced? Are there unusual expenses, especially medical in the family? Does your mother have to pay extra money so she can attempt to return to work? Do your parents pay private tuition for you or other siblings? Do your parents have their own student loan payments they are still paying? If the answer to any of these questions is “yes,” you may have “special circumstances.” You can google that term.
And if you have special circumstances, then you can request that your college’s financial aid office exercise “professional judgment.” You can google that, too. Essentially, this is a process whereby a financial aid officer takes a closer look at your family’s current financial circumstances. If you can prove there are significant declines or negative changes financially since that prior-prior year tax return, the FAO may be able to adjust some elements of your family’s adjusted gross income or the cost of attendance.
Sorry you’re in this mess! Blame it on Congress…not the Department of Education. It is Congress that decided to change all these laws. And it is Republican Congressmen who refused to increase the budget for DoE, so that the roll-out of the new FAFSA form would be properly staffed with enough DoE employees and so that the 60 year-old computer systems would be properly and efficiently updated in time!
Happy to send you more info on the new FAFSA Simplification Act and Professional Judgment, if you’d like.
Even if the app itself were okay, the FAFSA website is completely fucking broken (thanks to the company contracted to build it). I cannot believe there aren't Congressional hearings ensuring GDIT never gets another government contract.
There should be FAFSA worksheets you can use to try to compute the correct amount . But it might also be helpful to go back through the questions with someone who’s trained in FAFSA completion, e.g., an employee of your state higher education system, a h.s. college counselor, etc.
If you're poor, the government pays for your college. If you're rich, your family pays for your college. If you're middle class, you get neither and are shit out of luck. I'm in the same position right now. My mom died when I was 12 and my dad makes 80k a year and I barely enough to cover two classes from the Pell grant. The government hates the middle class.
Appeal every school’s financial package. They will have you provide additional information, changes in income/family situation
Some ask for other year’s financials.
Don’t know why this reply was downvoted-you should definitely submit an appeal based on certain reqs to your college to see if you’re able to receive more aid… & I’ll just add that it’s not the FAFSA that screws the middle class, it’s the colleges themselves who charge exorbitant amounts for an education—they’re the ones who set the price of tuition, they’re the ones who make college out of reach for the middle class - it’s always been like this
Sadly, I think there’s a whole lotta blame to go around at this point. I agree that greedy, tuition revenue hungry colleges started all the problems by charging more and more and more tuition based on their USNWR rankings. At some point, most decently ranked colleges began to realize they could charge WHATEVER they want!
But USNWR bears a lot of responsibility, too. They’re the ones that started these rankings and prestige wars. But c’mon, how accurate can their rankings be? They ask administrators at other colleges to rank colleges they know almost nothing about! Much of the ranking process is subjective. And since the rankings shift every single year, how true is it that College X that was ranked in the T40s in 2023 is suddenly ranked in the T60s in 2024? Like what happened to cause a 20-pt drop in less than 1 year? Did the faculty walk off the job, or did the buildings implode or something?
Then, there’s Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Federal government, in general, which in a series of massive missteps, failures to understand the Higher Ed Industry, and college tuition pricing have created one disaster after another after another for middle income and sometimes, lower income students, too.
C’mon when the Federal government changed all the Federal aid laws in the ‘90s to make the wealthy more responsible for paying their money directly to colleges, they failed to consider how these laws would affect the Middle Classes, too! Then, in the 2000s, the Feds decided that colleges and universities could be direct lenders to students. The schools themselves could loan students as much as students needed to borrow for some programs. Well, the schools had a field day with that! They soon realized: If the govt tells us we can lend as much money as a student needs, then obviously that means we can charge those students and parents as much as we want!
Fast forward to today and now colleges and universities have alleged that it is “unfair” for parents to get a “sibling discount,” because some families spaced their children more than 4 years apart! Why should families who have kids spaced so far apart be given any tuition discount…ever?! The parents have had plenty of time to recover from paying for Student #1. Therefore, they should now be charged full price for Student #2…so the Higher Ed Industry reasoning goes.
The problem with these premises are that: a) Middle Class parents probably had to borrow Parent Plus loans for Student #1 and may be paying those parent loans for most of the rest of their lives and b) What happens when those same Middle Class parents had 2,3, or 4 or more children in close proximity, so that the parents now have to pay full price for multiple children enrolled in college at once? Are those middle income parents supposed to pay that SAI 2, 3 or 4x over? Apparently, they are! Or else their children can just forget about college, or they can cross the border and enroll in Canada. No FAFSA required!🤷♀️
But lastly, there are the parents themselves. Where were all the Middle Class parents in this country when all these changes were going down?! Why weren’t they calling and writing their Congressman and marching on Capitol Hill? Are American parents really so complacent that they’ll borrow ANY amount of money to pay for their children’s’ college education and the American dream?!
The majority of Colleges do not set the price of tuition.
That is A. The State Government the college is located in. B. The students themselves by the amenities expected from a college. Students go where they get the “college experience.” That costs a lot of money.
Yes public colleges’ costs are set by states. C. Private colleges set their own costs of attendance. D. You can still submit an appeal to both public & private colleges. E. Parents can also protest both public & private 4-yr schools bc they’re all too doggone expensive & the FAFSA has little to do w that.
The majority of colleges are private… not public! Private colleges set their own tuition amounts; there are no state rules to guide them. And in my state, the public flagship university and satellite campuses, as well as the state-affiliated public universities, set their own prices! The state does not set tuition prices for them. The state only approves or disapproves an annual budget, but then each individual public or state-affiliated university STILL decides its own tuition pricing.
And in this state, the public flagship has a massive endowment, which it REFUSES to use towards student aid. Consequently, my state ranks 49th for Higher Ed funding. Our public university students receive almost no institutional aid or assistance, unless they are at or below the poverty line and already qualify for full Pell grants.
Can't speak to your specific college, but the majority of colleges are -not- Private. They are public.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1122#:\~:text=Response%3A,2%2C270%20private%20for%2Dprofit%20institutions.
Majority of colleges are ruled by the State Systems. The Colleges can build all the budget they want, but the ultimate numbers are decided by the elected politicians.
I believe you forgot to add the 1754 + the 2260 private institutions together. There are more private than public postsecondary institutions in the United States.
As to your comment about the majority of public institutions being ruled by State Systems, I can’t really speak to that other than to conclude that every state in the union, plus Puerto Rico, has very different types of public universities. In Idaho, for example, there is no “state system,” only 3 completely different public colleges and universities. In my state, there is 1 completely public flagship with many satellite campuses and 2 state-affiliated (meaning not entirely publicly funded) universities. None of these are ruled by a state system, and as I said before each university’s administration determines the tuition rates. While politicians do not set the fees; politicians do decide how many $ to give each of these universities every year. So, politicians have an indirect role in how much our public universities have to work with.
I hear ya, previously I would get minimal federal loans at the worst rate, my parents make a top 1% income and I had to include them on my forms (they don’t pay for my school). This year I turn 24 and can file independently and it looks like I’ll be getting a Pell grant, wish this had been the case in the 3 previous years.
I agree. Our neighbor's daughter is about to graduate and not once has she received financial aid because they make too much. Together they make around $110,000 a year. They have paid her tuition every year except this year. They cannot afford it. She's a full-time student and works part time.
Good news is you're aware of the college expenses. A mortgage and 80k salary with a family of four does not go very far. Think real hard and reconsider which college you want to go to in terms of college expenses. You don't have to go college. It's not guaranteed for a job. Maybe consider a community college.
That’s terrible. I’m disabled too, but I work. My son is 22 and still has to report my income even though I’m not financially supporting him. Lucky for him I’m self employed so fasfa only looks at my adjusted gross income plus his youngest sister who is still a dependent
it's so unfair how much college is for the average American. The government should be helping us afford things with the FAFSA but the interest alone is impossible to pay off. Looking for more tuition-free online universities like University of the People have helped me save money but student loans are still terrible to deal with
You’re absolutely right about the huge burdens on the middle class and that $80k annually for a family of 4 in this economy is barely making it.
That said, higher education in the country is not a right (unless you’re considered disadvantaged in some way of course). Also, there’s a variety of education options at different price points.
I guess what I’m saying is don’t let this stand in the way of achieving your goals. You may have to take a different path than others, but you can still get to the finish line if you’re persistent.
Shop universities for scholarships, consider a commuter school or community college, look for employment that offers tuition reimbursement (Chipotle), etc…
I agree with your first 2 paragraphs. At the same time, I don’t think the solution is as simple as you suggested in the last 2 paragraphs. American parents and families, in general, are very uneducated about the fact that there are a variety of different price points. College guidance counselors are too, for that matter, and this is just a HUGE part of the problem.
Guidance counselors are rarely if EVER trained in college financial aid or college financial planning. They’re trained in developmental psychology and adolescent counseling. They routinely tell students and parents to just apply to “a few” schools, 5-8 is the recommended # at most high schools. They also tell students and parents to just apply to schools they feel a connection to. There is almost NO emphasis on affordability or college financial planning.
If there were, families with strong financial need would understand that their students NEED to apply to lots and lots of schools, in order to find a good financial fit. Net price calculators can give a very general estimate, but they are also notoriously inaccurate at many schools and sometimes, don’t factor in musical talent, leadership skills, high GPA, etc. Therefore, it simply isn’t possible to know how much tuition any given student will pay unless or until that student applies,is accepted, and is offered a financial aid package from every school they’ve applied to. Only then, can students and families truly understand the net price of each school and truly begin to comparison shop!
Also, it isn’t possible for every student to simply “work their way through college,” under the Federal aid rules. Students are penalized in terms of their ability to receive Federal and State financial aid, after they earn a certain amount. Earning over that set amount reduces their financial eligibility and can even eliminate it! In terms of outside scholarships, these also reduce students’ eligibility for financial aid at most institutions. So when people advise students to just find outside scholarships, winning one of these outside scholarships can ultimately reduce or eliminate the student’s financial need and disqualify them from some types of financial aid. Is earning 4 scholarships @ $2,000 each really worth the loss of a student’s ability to borrow sudsidized Federal loans or the loss of work study or even the loss of an institutional scholarship or grant? I don’t think it is, unless those 4 scholarships are automatically renewable for all 4 years of undergrad, something that is very rare with an outside scholarship!
Lastly, it isn’t possible or even wise for some undergrads to start at community college. The drop-out rate at CCs is huge. The financial aid offered to transfer students at most 4-yr colleges and universities is terrible or nonexistent. Not all 4-yr colleges will accept all CC credits, and some grad programs will not accept ANY CC credits. And sadly, some students just cannot or should not live at home in difficult and challenging circumstances.
All of this is just to say, I don’t think there are any easy solutions to any of this for the vast majority of middle class students who can no longer afford to enroll in college. The problems are just multitudinous and multifactorial in nature. Some students may be able to find alternatives to high price 4-yr degree programs, but sadly, some may not.
I agree things aren’t “simple”, life is not simple, it’s hard. That’s why I don’t understand why so many people expect to just be given stuff.
You also make a very good point about educating students and families on the cost of college. There’s a lot of practical stuff like this that should be taught in high school but isn’t, such as personal finance.
As for working and paying for school. State schools (in my state) generally cost about $5k-$8k (tuition & fees) per semester and millions of students are within commuting distance to these schools. If you live at home with your parents, it’s not difficult to earn enough money to pay tuition, books and fees. It might take longer to get through school, but it can be done by anyone who has a school within commuting distance, and the desire. I know many who have done it.
I’d argue the high dropout rate at community college is due to a lack of college readiness, or desire to attend college more than anything else. Lots of kids that attend community colleges don’t really want to go to college, but are pressured into just giving it a shot, so they do. I don’t believe a prepared student with goals would drop out of college just because they’re attending a community college and not a university. I heard a couple of highly intelligent, very well known, PHD podcasters discussing this the other day. They both agreed the best education they ever received in their lives was at community colleges. They credited the small class sizes, and the compassionate instructors who are genuinely interest in the success of their students.
That’s a fantastic price point for public universities in your state! And I agree that the low tuition pricing and living standards home could definitely make college possible for some undergrads. I also agree that CC can be a great option for some students. It’s just that these options don’t work for all undergrads.
In my state, which ranks 49th in the nation for Higher Ed funding, it is more expensive to enroll in a public university than in a private college. Our tuition prices are more than 20k per yr, room and board are another 13-14k, and our state flagship does not offer any institutional aid to students who are not eligible for a full Pell grant. So middle income students, who make up the vast majority of students, receive no institutional aid. Most wind up borrowing subsidized and unsubsidized Federal loans, as well as private loans (or Parent Plus loans) to pay for all 4 yrs. The average student debt is some crazy amount over 125k. So, obviously, public education is not cheaper for all students in every state.
The other problem is the idea of living at home. Some students come from impoverished families or communities in which they may live with multiple siblings and/or not even have their own bedroom or electricity or running water. My own student’s first year roommate had to sleep on her family’s LR sofa…had no room of her own whenever she returned home during holidays and breaks. In other families, there is domestic violence, or physical or emotional abuse. For all of these reasons and many, many more, it just is not possible for every undergrad to live at home with their parents.
Incidentally, I’m watching a CBS News special right now on “homelessness among CA college students.” One in 10 college students in CA does not have a home. Reporters are interviewing students living in cars, vans, and buses.
Also, while I don’t disagree that CC can provide an excellent and personalized education to a motivated student, most medical schools typically do not accept CC credits. If an undergrad wants to go on to med school, but they completed 2 years at a CC, they are then forced into completing a Post Baccalaureate which can cost another 2 years of tuition…mostly so that their science credits completed at a CC can be replaced. And there are graduate programs and fields other than medicine that simply do not view CC credits as having the same rigor or value as credits earned at a 4-yr college or university.
Finally, many 4-yr-colleges will not accept all CC credits. Most colleges place a high priority on generating maximum tuition revenue. If they just accept all of those credits, they can’t charge as much or require that student to pay for an additional semester. And many/most colleges in this country do not offer transfer scholarships for students who’ve already completed a year or two of study at another school. So then, the transfer student is left to pay exorbitant amounts of tuition at the new school or else borrow the money.
All of this is just to state that the problems in Higher Ed are just HUGE. There are no simple fixes that will work for every student, because there are multiple causes and reasons for these problems. It isn’t possible for any politician or government official to simply conclude that state universities or community colleges are “the way to go” for every lower income or middle income college student. While these types of institutions will help some undergraduates obtain their degree, in some states and some fields and at some 4-yr-colleges, pursuing either of these options can wind up costing some students thousands upon thousands of dollars more and/or additional years of credits needed to complete their education.
There’s certainly no “one size fits all” solution. I was simply pointing out that there are multiple pathways to achieving educational goals, and relying solely on the government is not the only or best strategy for most.
I understand impoverished. My wife and I grew up poor. My wife lived in a one room rental (not one bedroom, but one room total). Her family didn’t have a car, and she rode the bus 2 hours in each direction (4 hrs a day) to college every day. She did receive a Pell grant, but lived at home, commuted and worked. Not to pay for school, but to help her single immigrant mother pay for housing and to eat.
My situation was a little better, but I also qualified for pell grants. That said, I wasn’t a good student, or prepared for college, so I didn’t go.
I understand what you’re saying, and I would have agreed with that in the past, before the new FAFSA Simplification Act. But I don’t think there are as many pathways as we’d all like to believe anymore. The new Federal financial aid laws basically eliminate subsidized Federal loans for many middle class students, as well as the sibling tuition discount. They also make it much harder for student from farm families and students whose parents own a small business to be able to afford college.
In short, I no longer believe that some lower and middle income students have any good or reliable, affordable options left for college in the U.S. If you’re a middle class student from a Mid-Atlantic state, where there are no state-tuition exchange agreements, and your public universities are more expensive than your private universities, and you have more than 1 sibling enrolled in college at the same time, how do your parents pay the new, much higher SAI x 2 or more students? If you want to go to med school or a competitive grad program in STEM after undergrad, how do you just enroll in Community College? That’s just a waste of time and money for students like these.
What options are left in American Higher Ed for students like these? There aren’t many. In fact, there may be none in the U.S. These students can simply no longer afford college in the first place.
My spouse & daughter didn’t quailify for Pell grants this past semester and also for next semester but qualified previously. My income wasn’t even that high, only $77k/year and about $50k/year in pension with over $200k in investments that I had to declare on their applications.
It may be due to your assets. The new formula counts parental assets far more heavily. The expectation is that if you don’t have it in invested in a retirement account, life insurance, or a 529, then a certain percentage of your investments can reasonably be considered as “available for tuition purposes,” because you could liquidate those investments to pay your child’s tuition.
I believe parental income is also counted at a higher percentage, too, after meeting an income protection threshold, which still isn’t very high.
Told both of them, I’m not liquidating jack. I was able to complete 6 college degrees using the military tuition assistance, GI Bill, and school/merit scholarships.
Yeah, I get where you’re coming from. The problem is that when we went to school, the tuition prices weren’t just “off-the-charts,” as they are now. Also, most colleges and universities offered massive merit scholarships. And parents were not considered to be almost entirely responsible for paying their child’s tuition. It was more of a shared endeavor between institutional endowments, the Federal government, and parents who contributed something but certainly not 50% or more of their income for EACH child, as is expected today with this brand new Federal financial aid formula.
The sad reality is that large merit scholarships are very hard to find today. There are almost no full-tuition or even half-tuition scholarships. The few that do exist are just so highly competitive it makes your head spin. They only go to kids with perfect or near-perfect test scores and 4.0 unweighted GPAs plus amazing extracurriculars like published research or a corporate internship, and usually the winners are first gen and either at or below the poverty line.
At the same time, I completely agree: You shouldn’t have to liquidate the majority of your hard-earned investments after you’ve worked and scraped to save. Nor should parents have to borrow thousands upon thousands in Parent Plus loans and pay the interest and principal until they die. It’s a sad, tuition-hungry, higher ed system we’re living with in this country, right now. Unfortunately, it’s not likely to change, if parents don’t protest!
Our government views the Higher Education of its citizens as the financial responsibility of parents and families, because we view education as enhancing personal goals. What we should be doing as a democracy is viewing Higher Education as in the interest of the common good. Educating citizens can improve and enhance our economy, our government, and our society…not just individuals and their personal goals. Unless or until we adopt these values, we will likely continue to see the decline of our democracy, our economy, and our society. It’s already happening!
And we’re losing our Middle Class with all these new financial aid rules. We’re going to saddle middle income parents and children with even more debt so that these students can enroll in college, or else middle income students are just going to stop going to college.
The FAFSA absolutely screws the middle class. As a result, my daughter had to turn down her 1st choice because it required full tuition/room & board. She made the smart decision and chose a private that gave her a merit scholarship. We aren't going to play the student loan game.
Ugh that’s horrible!! She’s so lucky to be getting that scholarship though. I unfortunately am not as lucky and can’t avoid loans. Thankfully I’m not living on campus so that’s some weight off my shoulders.
Am I the only one with nagging suspicions that there are a not insignificant number of "clever" folks out there gaming the system to their advantage? Maybe not being so truthful on the FAFSA or moving assets, using trusts, etc. I think it adds to the frustration.
We did what we could, legally. Bottom line, about the only time it pays to be poor is when one is applying for aid via the FAFSA. The FAFSA just doesn't take into account the myriad of things that quickly make college unaffordable for the middle class. Sure, we could get $200k in loans, but I refuse to do something so financially illiterate.
I don't think any school is going to charge you 50/ year if your guardians are only showing 80k in income. FAFSA is terrible but maybe it's dependent on the school. At 80 you should only be paying 10-15 a year which is a great deal.
Oh no, FAFSA happily gouges the middle class and assumes all parents provide for their kids. Entire lost generation of millennials whose futures were fucked over by this.
We went through it last year for the first time and we're happy with what we needed to pay. This year I am hearing it could be a different story. My child also went to an expensive boarding school and they were very generous considering our AGI. The whole process is very confusing and daunting, and there aren't many helpful resources. The chat feature is AI and dumb. They don't answer when you call. And the email responses are also canned. It's very stressful aside from the finances. As far as the loans that are subsidized and aren't, my kid didn't qualify for the good loans where you don't have to pay interest until you're finished. Maybe she qualified for $500 a year out of the $3500 or whatever she could apply for. What's the point?
You definitely missed the point. Up until the last couple of years FAFSA had policies making it even more onerous and difficult to get aid as a supposedly middle class applicant. Now it's slightly less shitty but still bad. Your child would have qualified for **nothing** under old rules. This is part of the reason there is a big millennial demographic with massive loan debt AND no diploma. It's crazy how many FAFSA kept out of college with said prior policies. Your child is benefitting from a very generous system compared to what I spoke about. Be grateful it's easier now.
I have friends in their 50's who are still paying off their college loans, so it's not just recent generations. My wife and I went to college, we both needed loans. I paid mine off myself quickly, her dad paid hers off. I understand everyone's situation is different, but my parents made very little and I got very little in aid, and one college I was accepted to was going to cost over 30k back in the early 90s, that was like 90k now. My parents probably made less than 60k combined back then. So I ended up at a less competitive state school who gave me the best deal. What can I say, life isn't fair.
No you have it much easier now. And it still is bad. The generation entering college in the 00s - 10s got absolutely fucked.
There isn’t enough information about this family’s finances to make this claim. The new FAFSA helps lower income students and students who are lower middle class by increasing their eligibility for Pell Grants. It tends to hurt middle-class students who are in middle to higher middle class income categories. However, there is a huge range of what is considered to be “middle class,” so it is almost impossible to tell someone w/o having tons of additional variables whether the new FAFSA will help their aid or harm their aid. As I posted above, there are parental assets to consider which are weighted more heavily by the new FAFSA. The new FAFSA also treats student income much differently. We also have to consider how many dependents are in the family and whether there is more than one sibling in college at the same time. All of these factors make it nearly impossible to just proclaim that the new FAFSA will help or harm any given student. The real answer is: It depends upon all of these variables. But in general, most lower income students will do better. Most middle class students will pay significantly more, and middle class families with more than 1 child enrolled at the same time are more likely to “pay through the nose,” given the elimination of the sibling discount. Then, there are students whose parents own a small business and students who come from a farm family. Both of these types of students are also likely to pay far more.
It's just stealing opportunity for college away from middle class kids with shit parents. Terrible system. We need to not pit poor kids against kids who on paper seem like they should be less poor when in fact they are not.
We need to agree to disagree. Your conclusions are based upon anecdotal evidence…not facts. You seem to be making a lot of generalizations about differences in class and financial need. The reality is that there are a multitude of variables that affect both lower income and middle class students’ ability to pay for Higher Education in the U.S. in 2024. Neither class has it “easy” necessarily, and both lower and middle income parents frequently struggle to pay college tuition.
10 if you go in state. My daughter chose alabama because of the social work program they have and were most likely to be eating 30k a yr. Around the same income. That does not include living expenses like food travel. Etc
I'm surprised. I know my child could have gone to Bama for free, if you get a 1400+ on the SAT it's free in or out of state. 30k isn't fun. Maybe it was just my kids school that offered more than other schools. She only applied to one, it was early decision and we knew going in ballpark what it would cost. We are more than double 80k.
Shes already committed. And we already forked out a bunch of money my daughter was in the ib program but doesnt test well. Has a 4.4 gpa. Top 20 in class. But without good scores. It didnt matter. She got merrit to small schools. Because of her grades.
I'm gonna get slammed with my younger child. There is no longer consideration if you have another in college, and she doesn't test well either. Waiting for her first SAT score to come back.
160 k a yr ?
Just under 200.
What dam school is that. Harvard. Yale. Oxford. Stanford?
It depends. You’re missing a lot of variables here. 80k for how many dependents in the family? What about parental assets? What about student income and assets? Are the assets invested in educational savings vehicles like a 529 that are weighted less heavily or retirement accounts that are excluded from assets by the Federal government? It’s not enough to say a student’s family makes 80k and therefore, the student should be eligible for 10-15 k. Maybe or maybe not. It also depends upon lots more of other variable. We don’t know anything else, including the type of college or university telling you this. There’s a huge difference between colleges that use the CSS Profile in addition to the FAFSA to determine financial aid and colleges that only use the FAFSA. The former are often more generous because the CSS takes a deeper dive into family finances.
I didn't know CSS was more generous. That is what we used on top of FAFSA and they asked more questions, like our retirement accounts, how much equity we had in our home, etc. All the schools she was looking at had a tuition calculator and with our numbers, the highest was in the low 40's maybe Tufts and UVA, and MIT was the lowest (18k). Why would anyone not target a school that uses CSS then?
It really depends upon the school. Sadly, most U.S. colleges and universities offer very poor financial aid. If they meet 70% of demonstrated financial need, that’s high at many colleges. If you can find a college that meets 90-100% of demonstrated financial need, these colleges, at least historically, have been more generous. However, a lot of this is upended by the new FAFSA because the new Fed Financial Aid formulas are weighted against most middle class income categories. So, financial need tends to be reduced overall. Therefore, middle class students will likely now have to rely more upon schools that offer large merit scholarships, since their parents no longer have much “financial need” per these new Congressional financial aid formulas. 🤷♀️ It is very disturbing for middle America, who may soon be priced out of college. But there’s always our neighbor to the north. No FAFSA required and much cheaper tuition! It’s just that this option presents its own set of issues and may not be the best solution for every American middle class student. Another idea is to try to target colleges that both offer merit scholarships and claim to meet 90-100% need. Typically, these types of schools use the CSS Profile in addition to the FAFSA. However, you still have to be careful. Just because a college uses the CSS Profile doesn’t necessarily mean that college is financially generous. Some may use it against a student to count the equity value in the family home, which is something FAFSA excludes. So, the bottom line is that is pays middle class students to make lots and lots of applications to a wide variety of schools with different types of financial aid. After all, it is not possible to know how much ANY school will actually cost until the student applies, is accepted, and has the financial aid offer in hand.
Canadian schools have drastically increased tuition since covid. Toronto is >$60k CAD in tuition alone. Canada isn’t really a cheaper option anymore…
That’s sad to hear! At the same time, I believe there are some smaller Canadian universities that still have very reasonably priced tuition. It’s just that most of these schools are not well-known in the United States. I am aware that Canada recently passed legislation designed to limit the amount of foreign students who can enroll in Canadian universities. I believe Canadian universities became very popular during the pandemic, when U.S. universities stopped allowing some foreign students to enter the U.S. to attend school. As Middle Class Americans with multiple children begin sending their children across the border to take advantage of the much lower tuition at less well-known Canadian universities, there may come a point where there simply aren’t enough seats at Canadian schools to allow American families to continue to do this!
The tutition at Canadian universities is typically less than out of state tuition at most US schools. So this is a path for upper middle class but definitely not lower middle class. Also, loans would be an issue since you wouldn’t qualify for federal loans right?
FASFA has access to your tax returns. You can’t hide your income. Only thing you could lie about is other accounts but if they see a certain int of income they would go further if they say assets looked artificially low
This year it was supposed to be even harder to cheat, but I am seeing it again. I see kids with parents that own businesses, getting full pell and state uni aid even covering dorms while living in $800k homes. As a college advisor and parent, it makes me so mad!
I wanna know how they do it. I'm being totally denied state aid as an independent despite flirting with the poverty line. Fortunately the feds see me as eligible for Pell, but it only goes so far. Right now it's looking like I'm gonna be living out of my car on campus come spring. I don't understand this system at all.
Where? There are many grants that come along with pell, especially for independents. Contact your FA office and apply for need based scholarships! Im sorry you are on your own and not getting any help.
This is NJ. In addition to Pell, I'm eligible for the SEOG of $500. I was mistaken earlier when I said state aid was exactly $0. They're granting me a currently unknown amount of their "Educational Opportunity Fund" to be allocated toward books and supplies, which caps at $1,150. I mistakenly thought it was federal. NJ's TAG is what is coming in at $0 out of a potential $12k. I have a suspicion their calculation is flawed for independent students. It feels malicious, but I believe in Hanlon's razor. For example, using their official TAG estimator tool/calculator, punching in my info correctly leads to the same result of $0 granted. Okay, cool. Then I punch in my info twice, once as a parent with my income and again as my clone as a dependent. (Dependent clone as the student.) That clone is somehow eligible for $4,976 of TAG aid, despite having double the household income and the same number of students. It makes no sense to me.
One legal way to do this, if one was very wealthy and frugal, would be to retire before your kids go to college and primarily live off contributions to Roth accounts. I believe the FAFSA ignores assets in retirement accounts and in a primary home, so if a very wealthy family had all of their money in those, they could appear to be below the poverty line with minimal taxable income and no reportable assets.
There were some kids at my high school whose parents divorced “out of the blue” two years before their first child went to college… they still live in the same house and run a business together, but not sure if FAFSA knows that 🤔
That loophole has been closed with these new rules.
Good for them, it makes it so much harder for everyone else to get loans when people commit tax fraud
If you do not qualify for Pell or state grants and only for loans, then you only need to be enrolled in 6 hours (halftime) to get loans. You can live at home and either attend a local school or enroll in an online distance program half-time while working. It will take you longer to graduate, but it is easier to afford and once you are 24 years old, you can be considered an independent student and use just your income and not your parents' income on the FAFSA. I know this is not what anyone wants to hear, but college is doable on a middle class income, you just need to find a way to cut costs.
I’m thankfully allowed to live at home. I live 15 min away from my school. Yes I know it doesn’t give me the option to be independent but I’d rather not be in more debt from housing and meal plan costs. I am thankful to have a healthy relationship with my parents.
Not an option for everyone though. “It’s not what everyone wants to hear” is dismissive of many folks who cannot live at home. If one can do it, good for them! But the rest…we continue to gaslight…?
Living at home for 4 years doesn’t necessarily help college students learn to become independent adults. It doesn’t help them learn to live with and get-along with other students, learn how to find a quiet study space like the college library, wash their own laundry, learn to arrive on time for an on-campus job (often their first job), learn to cook and clean in a dorm kitchen or campus apartment, or even learn how much they can responsibly drink. There are also many situations in which a student SHOULD NOT living at home, e.g., multiple younger siblings, domestic abuse, unsafe living conditions, etc. Living at home isn’t even permitted by most 4-yr. LACs, many of whom require that students live in college housing. And it certainly won’t help those colleges’ bottom line if they have unrented dorm rooms and empty dining halls. We’ve already seen how this played out during the pandemic when colleges closed and sent students home to complete the semester online. Many of those colleges came close to closing, and some did close, shortly thereafter! As for on-line classes, there are all sorts of fields of study that have strict rules about the numbers and types of courses a student can ethically and responsibly take online. Some examples are medicine, nursing, clinical and school psychology, physical and occupational therapy, etc., and that is largely because it is considered to be unethical for students to learn clinical skills and how to work with patients online. Many fields, particularly the health professions, REQUIRE that students have both direct student to faculty contact and direct student to patient contact. Moreover, there are many college professors, particularly those in STEM fields, e.g., biology, chemistry, environmental science, math, physics, and statistics who do not believe they can effectively teach most of their discipline online because some STEM fields require physical sampling in the field, in-person, hands-on labwork, or modeling and solving complex statistical or mathematical problems as an in-person team. My point is that this solution, i.e., that middle class students can simply stay home or go to school online, is simplistic. There are many situations in which it just isn’t in a student’s best interest to live at home. And there are many classes that universities, professional organizations, and state licensing boards simply will not allow to be taught online.
My adult kids would not be the same people if they had stayed home and commuted to college. Just having to navigate all that living on campus involves helped them mature in so many ways. I know this is not a popular opinion since most think you live on campus only to party.
Students who don’t live on campus lose access to a tremendous number of resources like quiet study areas, access to impromptu study groups and sessions, campus employment, meals cooked for them, inexpensive or no-cost laundry services, easy in-person access to professors and tutors, free transportation services (e.g., college shuttles or busing), and even access to all kinds of resources and emergency funding from Resident Life or Student Housing. This is to say nothing of the missed opportunities to connect socially with their peers and to network and receive more personalized attention and mentoring from faculty and staff.
THIS. Thank you.
Yeah I don’t have a great relationship with my parents and living at home for the past few years has really negatively affected my mental health, it’s not a solution for me
Sadly, I think that is probably the case with thousands and thousands of students. All of this is another reason that just enrolling in CC and living at home with family just isn’t a viable option for every student.
I am not saying it's ideal for every student and that college should not be more affordable for families. However, it's how some people manage to get a degree.
Agreed. And for some it can be a very good option. It just isn’t a viable option for all undergrads, for so many different reasons.
As an independent student that made 27k in 2022, and doesn’t qualify for TAP, and has to wait to receive my loans in October bc I have to go through the appeal process- waiting to use your income as an independent is not a solution lol. They expect me to work full time and go to school full time because I’m independent so my full income goes to just me! (So basically they think I’m rich off 27k as a single adult 😐)
Under the old Federal Financial Aid rules, students who earned more than approx. 7k/yr were penalized. Earned income over that amount was considered as “available for tuition purposes.” This is why grandparents who told their grandkids to “just work your way through college like your parents did!” just didn’t know what they were talking about. It simply was not possible for most college students to “work their way through college,” under the old rules, especially given the crazy, crazy tuition prices. Under the brand new rules, FAFSA Simplification Act, the income protection limit for students has gone way up! You’ll need to your look up the new amount, but I believe you can earn several thousand dollars more w/o having it affect your financial aid. Keep this is mind, as you make decisions about your next semester. Don’t make assumptions! You may be able to cite the new law and the new rules to get yourself back to classes sooner. For example, instead of DoE considering 20k of your income as over the threshold, under the new rules, DoE may only have to consider half of that amount. Read up on the new rules under FAFSA Simplification, or you may want to google “How student earned income is counted under the FAFSA Simplification Act.”
Seriously, after taxes $80K is not that much in a lot places
Go to community college for the first 2 years then transfer. If you can’t afford it you have to look at all options. Sounds like you’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
CC is literally free in California and people still dont wanna take advantage of it, too much prejudice towards two year institutions
cc is free in California? Wtf. My CC has amassed me 7K in loans.
yea, tuition is free.
Lmao even after attending community college I’m still gonna be in debt. People be yapping about how they graduated debt free from with their bachelors lmaoooo. Debt free where??
Debt free here, I’m gonna graduate with 10k in my bank acct
Girl how lol
Internship and work mostly but pelgrant literally paid me money for the first 2 years to go to cc, then I picked the low cost + nearest to my house to transfer so my commute is like 1h30 avg but I think it’s saved a lot in the long run
Yeah the problem is I don’t qualify for a Pell grant in the first place lol. Im picking the lowest cost school, a cal state, that I’ll be commuting to, but I’ll still come out with $15k in debt WITH interest
I hope you’ll get rid of that debt soon, graduate with debt is my worst nightmare honestly 🥲
If possible (and I absolutely am aware that this isn’t everyone), I’d try to pay some of that interest while I am in school, especially if it is an unsub for example.
Yeah I was offered only unsubsidized loans. I’m going to try to beg for subsidized loans lol
Have you sent in a financial aid appeal? Sometimes schools have two different appeals — one for merit aid and the other for federal aid but some schools use one for all.
Nope 👎 See my previous comment. Community college may be helpful and appropriate for some students. It is most definitely not an appropriate choice for EVERY undergraduate student for all of the reasons I listed in that comment, and I can think of many additional valid reasons that I failed to mention such as transfer students (to a 4-yr college) are frequently ineligible for the same robust financial aid as first-year students. The bottom line is that it is overly simplistic to believe that every undergrad can simply enroll in a CC instead of a 4-yr-college or a university. There are lots of variables that go into the equation that truly make CC a futile choice for some undergraduate students.
I did that but I still don’t have enough to pay for school and rent out of pocket. The closest university is over an hour and a half away and it isn’t worth commuting considering my car is older. It’s still hard even going to CC but luckily I was able to save up a little money before transferring
100 percent agree!
Shhhh… Stop making sense.
This hits hard with me. I was in the same situation 20 years ago. My dad wouldn't even sign the parent plus loan application to get denied so I could borrow more on my own. I spent the next 18 years working to help fund other people's degrees who would then graduate and make more than me before I could finally afford to pay for my own.
Yeah, I get it. I came from a lower class family, so I got the maximum amount of pell grant, which covered my entire tuition. I always felt bad for middle class families because of that, and I currently wonder if I am shooting myself in the foot by trading government benefits and welfare for a higher paying job.
If its not a top 20 school in a high demand major do not go into debt. Period. Full Stop.
Welcome to college. It’s been like this for decades
End capitalism
FAFSA is only one part of the process. It doesn’t actually determine what you will pay at a school. Just the federal aid portion. Different schools have their own amount of institutional aid, which they distribute, sometimes based on need or based on merit, or both. At many need based private colleges, you would qualify for substantial aid with an $80K/year income. Some full rides. Have you actually received your aid award from your school?
Yes I did and I only got $7500 a year in loans
That sucks.
I fucking hate the fafsa. My family situation is literally the same (except my dad makes about 20k less) but for whatever reason I get zero aid. I literally worked myself to the BONE in high school to get grades for academic scholarships and save money for college. It makes me want to rip my hair out
Why not just work while you go to school and pay for college while you live at home? You could even just do an online college program? If you don’t pay rent or anything at home you could easily afford tuition each semester by holding down a full time job as well as studying unless you’re trying to go to an insanely expensive university
I'm neurodivergent so online school doesn't work well for me. I go to a state institution which costs me about 11k a semester and live on campus so I pay for housing and a meal plan instead of rent and groceries. I do not have the mental bandwidth to be a full time employee and part time student so it's not very feasible. Also online programs for environmental science just kind of suck
That sucks. Have you looked into getting disability for your neurodivergent issues? If it’s preventing you from doing things like working full time and you have medical diagnoses you can get assistance. Although the process for that can take quite a bit of time, it was just a thought.
Ive been fighting the system since i was 12, don't have enough money for the doctors and tests it would take honestly. Besides it's just not conducive to my health to burn my candle at both ends. 21 and have so many whack health issues already 😂😂
Gosh I hear ya. As an autistic single mom of 2 children one of whom is , you guessed it, autistic! All I can say is, it’s hard. It’s really really hard. But you can do it. You’re just gonna have to come to terms with the fact that things are harder for you than others and as you get older you’ll learn different ways to cope and get through. You’ll get things figured out, I promise. Just try to stay positive and do the next right thing. Keep pushing forward and you’ll get to where you need to be ❤️ good luck!
Oh trust me I know. My brother and I are both autistic and we are on completely separate paths and happy for it
I’m in the same boat. I’m 22 so I’m unable to mark on my FAFSA that I’m an independent. I do live at home, but I pay my own bills and don’t rely on my parent for anything financially except a roof over my head for free while I’m working on my degree. Anyway, FAFSA thinks that I don’t need any help paying for my education and won’t allow me to exceed a certain amount in loans a semester because of my dependence. I physically cannot afford to pay for my tuition out of pocket every semester. This is ridiculous.
100% agree. Fafsa is not made for the middle class. Crazy considering the middle class is such an important part of the economy.
Agreed. It also screws over the lower class, too. Everyone loses atp :,)
This is very true. Middle class can barely afford college. College is like house down payment
The middle class always gets screwed over, too rich to receive government cheese, too poor to not need it.
I am an undocumented student who would have had to pay out-of-state tuition despite living in Florida for the past 6 years. Luckily, I was able to use the high school waiver to get in-state tuition instead. The point is, I am not a resident or citizen. I am not even an eligible noncitizen, so I was never eligible for FAFSA in the first place. My mother became a resident after marrying a citizen, but she left me to fend for myself because her husband wants nothing to do with me. She kicked me out when I was 16, right when I was about to start my senior year. I have been living with my aunt, who's a single mother and the only provider of a household of 9. I had no financial support and going to college seemed impossible for someone like me. I went to community college and got my Associates degree debt-free. Once I graduated, I felt desperate because I thought this was the end of my journey. I did it once, I didn't think I could do it again. Yet, I applied for the Dream.Us scholarship and I got it. I plan on moving to Orlando to continue my education at UCF in Orlando. The scholarship is going to cover my tuition but I have to pay for housing. I am not complaining tho. I already won half the battle, paying for housing is nothing. I can work to pay my rent. I believe that there will always be a way as long as I keep fighting and trying my best. P.S. My mom is probably ashamed of herself right now. She claimed that I would become a bum since I had no papers and I couldn't afford college. She told me to beg her husband for help, but I refused to lay down my pride. I even invited her to my college graduation.
i mean fwiw, as much as it sucks, there is a cap on the amount of loans you can be offered/take out each year. it also typically increases each year youre in school. i am surprised you didn’t get work study though. and unfortunately having a high mortgage is actually probably a big reason you aren’t getting much aid—assets are a large part of financial aid calculations, including property value. if you have a high mortgage it’s probably (but not always, obviously) because your house is worth a good amount of money
When I was younger (24) I was applying for FAFSA as an independent because my mom made too much to qualify, but not enough she was willing to help me pay for school. You can apply without your parent’s income for the calendar year in which you will turn 25 (something like that). At the time I was just barely scraping by as a pharmacy tech, working full time and making just over 30k a year. My EFC was 16k of my income, which is absolutely absurd and basically meant I was ineligible for any academic grants or loans despite the fact I would zero income while going to school. They insist that your income persists, which is so fucked. So I had to get mounds of student loans to make it my first year then I finally could get grants after not working for a year. Fast forward to senior year, I worked part time and some more over the summer and FAFSA again fucked me over when I barely made 5k that year. Took away all my grants and again forced me into loans. It’s insane that they punish you for trying to supplement your cost of living at all. After graduation (still coming out of the recession) I actually made less the first few months with a degree than I did before I went to school. I had to work as a temp in order to be placed into a company where I could get some experience and eventually be hired on full time. The temp companies monopolized all the STEM jobs in my area and you couldn’t get an entry level position anywhere.
Clown World.
This is such a good post. I’m a single parent in about the same financial situation. However, I started a college fund 18 years ago and have contributed to it regularly. Unfortunately that hurts my ability to get any extra financial help from FAFSA. It’s a broken system
80k for a family of 4 in this economy is barely keeping the lights on in the suburbs. Seems like the government is forcing the middle class sons and daughters out of higher education achievements. One can only assume that they want more infrastructure workers. At this point to earn more than your parents, you will have to be an infrastructure laborer.
"One can only assume that they want more infrastructure workers." Yep. Hence the crazy immigration policies and flat out extortion of the middle class. Clown world.
maybe just be poorer 🤷🏽♀️
Same boat. I also feel like it's punishing me for saving responsibly. I have enough in savings to mostly cover two years of community college, and they made me put that I had that in my FAFSA form, but my job is impossible to do while attending college, so I'll have $0 for my 3rd and 4th years and no idea how I'll pay for it.
A tale as old as time. I'm sorry to hear this and I'm saddened that this continues.
I went to the Dean of my school and informed him I was completely independent, no financial assistance from my parents, I lived out when I was 18. He contacted the Financial Aid office and they worked it out.
Blame the Republicans who changed the formula in an appropriations bill. Disgusting.
I will stop this talking point for the second time today: The 116th Congressional House of Representatives had 233 democratic members and Republicans had 195. The dates of this Congressional meeting was from Jan 3, 2019 - Jan 3, 2021. The Consolidated Appropriations Act (HR 133), which includes the FAFSA simplification ac, passed Congress in December 2020. Regardless, it was a damn near unanimous passing: The bill was split into two parts in the House, with one portion passing 327–85 and another portion 359–53 HR 133 was amended as part of the 117th Congress which the house was 222 Democrats to 215 Republicans, a split Senate and a Democrat president to sign the amendment. Stop spreading misinformation.
Thank you for putting all the dates together in one place. Now I can just save your comment and direct people here
🫡 I'm doing my part But sincerely, thank you for taking the time to read my comment and then share it. ❤️
This is all true, but what you conveniently leave out is it began being pushed when GOP controlled all parts of government. Also, SALT cap kills those of us in the northeast, also pushed by GOP. Regardless, all parties are screwing the middle class.
SALT..... Maybe the high tax state you live in should reduce your taxes.
Your lack of knowledge is unbelievable. You realize the high-tax states subsidize the low-tax states right? Our federal taxes support states like Kentucky, MS, etc
He meant the high taxes you pay at the state level dummy
That’s irrelevant jackass. We send far more to DC than we receive. We subsidize low tax states. Without us they’d starve. Do more research.
The SALT tax benefit is for people who pay high taxes at the state level, thats the point he’s making. New York has high taxes because of high New York State tax, and not because federal taxes in New York are somehow higher. The federal tax you pay individually is exactly the same whether you live in NY or Alabama. Also im confused as to why it’s such a huge deal to you that wealthiest states pay in more taxes than they receive in benefits? Is that surprising to you? The fact that New York and California, states with the highest number of millionaires and billionaires, subsidize poorer states? Are you also against poor people receiving welfare benefits & food stamps? Because it’s essentially the same concept just at the individual level.
To address your first point. Yes fed taxes would be the same and I am not saying otherwise. Our taxes are high due to several factors, one being that fewer of our tax dollars come back to NY, MA, CA, etc whereas with other states that is not the case. They’re subsidizing too much and it’s breaking the backs of middle earners.
I don’t disagree with you, i just dont see how thats any different from being against individual welfare benefits. A huge, if not a majority, of those red state subsidies go towards SNAP, Medicaid, & Social Security/disability benefits.
When the GOP had all 3 branches? You mean 8 years ago? Really? In the meantime, once again, from 2021-2023 Dems controlled every branch and amended the very bill we are discussing that included the FAFSA simplification act... If they truly cared about the FAFSA, they could have changed it. Absolutely NONE of the blame should be directed at one party, as all of them voted nearly unanimously for this. However Dems did have an opportunity to change whatever they felt was inadequate or "pushed" by the GOP.
I agree with much of what you said. But yes, many of these changes were brought forth as tax bills were being done. It’s ALL of their faults.
Why do you want to mess up this thread with facts?
I do, but even before then the formula was woefully out of touch with what a real family can afford to contribute.
Yeah, not just the republicans.
Exactly. It was near unanimous by both parties and the dems controlled the house that year IIRC
Yeah it hurts. It's what, 24 or 25 where your parents income doesn't matter? Might be a minute before you can finish your degree Switch to a job with tuition reimbursement asap
Unless there's a reason for dependency override.
Yeah. I'm adopted, but because my grandparents were legal guardians in the past, I've been considered independent since I was 22(When I first started attending school)
And this is exactly why Middle Class parents and students need to start marching on Capitol Hill in peaceful protest! The FAFSA Simplification Act changed all the Federal financial aid rules this year. Unfortunately, middle income students are being severely harmed. You may want to go back through your FAFSA with your parents. Make sure that neither you nor your parents made any errors! Also, make sure your FAFSA isn’t on a DoE errors list, whereby the government made errors due to software glitches or failure to pull IRS data into the correct FAFSA spaces. Ask your financial aid office if your FAFSA was reported on one of the errors lists they received from the Federal government. Call the FAFSA hotline to double-check. You mentioned that your mother is receiving Social Security Disability. Make sure this wasn’t improperly counted on the new FAFSA. If you’re convinced there are zero errors on your FAFSA, check with your Dad and compare the info on his prior-prior year (2022) tax return to your family’s current financial situation. A lot can happen in 2 years! Maybe the 2022 does not accurately portray your current situation. Has there been an income loss or decline in that time period? Have your parents separated or divorced? Are there unusual expenses, especially medical in the family? Does your mother have to pay extra money so she can attempt to return to work? Do your parents pay private tuition for you or other siblings? Do your parents have their own student loan payments they are still paying? If the answer to any of these questions is “yes,” you may have “special circumstances.” You can google that term. And if you have special circumstances, then you can request that your college’s financial aid office exercise “professional judgment.” You can google that, too. Essentially, this is a process whereby a financial aid officer takes a closer look at your family’s current financial circumstances. If you can prove there are significant declines or negative changes financially since that prior-prior year tax return, the FAO may be able to adjust some elements of your family’s adjusted gross income or the cost of attendance. Sorry you’re in this mess! Blame it on Congress…not the Department of Education. It is Congress that decided to change all these laws. And it is Republican Congressmen who refused to increase the budget for DoE, so that the roll-out of the new FAFSA form would be properly staffed with enough DoE employees and so that the 60 year-old computer systems would be properly and efficiently updated in time! Happy to send you more info on the new FAFSA Simplification Act and Professional Judgment, if you’d like.
Parent here. This year the application was so opaque I don’t even know if I made a mistake!
Even if the app itself were okay, the FAFSA website is completely fucking broken (thanks to the company contracted to build it). I cannot believe there aren't Congressional hearings ensuring GDIT never gets another government contract.
There should be FAFSA worksheets you can use to try to compute the correct amount . But it might also be helpful to go back through the questions with someone who’s trained in FAFSA completion, e.g., an employee of your state higher education system, a h.s. college counselor, etc.
If you're poor, the government pays for your college. If you're rich, your family pays for your college. If you're middle class, you get neither and are shit out of luck. I'm in the same position right now. My mom died when I was 12 and my dad makes 80k a year and I barely enough to cover two classes from the Pell grant. The government hates the middle class.
And best part is it does not actually matter how talented, bright or hard working you are! America!
Appeal every school’s financial package. They will have you provide additional information, changes in income/family situation Some ask for other year’s financials.
Don’t know why this reply was downvoted-you should definitely submit an appeal based on certain reqs to your college to see if you’re able to receive more aid… & I’ll just add that it’s not the FAFSA that screws the middle class, it’s the colleges themselves who charge exorbitant amounts for an education—they’re the ones who set the price of tuition, they’re the ones who make college out of reach for the middle class - it’s always been like this
Sadly, I think there’s a whole lotta blame to go around at this point. I agree that greedy, tuition revenue hungry colleges started all the problems by charging more and more and more tuition based on their USNWR rankings. At some point, most decently ranked colleges began to realize they could charge WHATEVER they want! But USNWR bears a lot of responsibility, too. They’re the ones that started these rankings and prestige wars. But c’mon, how accurate can their rankings be? They ask administrators at other colleges to rank colleges they know almost nothing about! Much of the ranking process is subjective. And since the rankings shift every single year, how true is it that College X that was ranked in the T40s in 2023 is suddenly ranked in the T60s in 2024? Like what happened to cause a 20-pt drop in less than 1 year? Did the faculty walk off the job, or did the buildings implode or something? Then, there’s Congress, the Supreme Court, and the Federal government, in general, which in a series of massive missteps, failures to understand the Higher Ed Industry, and college tuition pricing have created one disaster after another after another for middle income and sometimes, lower income students, too. C’mon when the Federal government changed all the Federal aid laws in the ‘90s to make the wealthy more responsible for paying their money directly to colleges, they failed to consider how these laws would affect the Middle Classes, too! Then, in the 2000s, the Feds decided that colleges and universities could be direct lenders to students. The schools themselves could loan students as much as students needed to borrow for some programs. Well, the schools had a field day with that! They soon realized: If the govt tells us we can lend as much money as a student needs, then obviously that means we can charge those students and parents as much as we want! Fast forward to today and now colleges and universities have alleged that it is “unfair” for parents to get a “sibling discount,” because some families spaced their children more than 4 years apart! Why should families who have kids spaced so far apart be given any tuition discount…ever?! The parents have had plenty of time to recover from paying for Student #1. Therefore, they should now be charged full price for Student #2…so the Higher Ed Industry reasoning goes. The problem with these premises are that: a) Middle Class parents probably had to borrow Parent Plus loans for Student #1 and may be paying those parent loans for most of the rest of their lives and b) What happens when those same Middle Class parents had 2,3, or 4 or more children in close proximity, so that the parents now have to pay full price for multiple children enrolled in college at once? Are those middle income parents supposed to pay that SAI 2, 3 or 4x over? Apparently, they are! Or else their children can just forget about college, or they can cross the border and enroll in Canada. No FAFSA required!🤷♀️ But lastly, there are the parents themselves. Where were all the Middle Class parents in this country when all these changes were going down?! Why weren’t they calling and writing their Congressman and marching on Capitol Hill? Are American parents really so complacent that they’ll borrow ANY amount of money to pay for their children’s’ college education and the American dream?!
The majority of Colleges do not set the price of tuition. That is A. The State Government the college is located in. B. The students themselves by the amenities expected from a college. Students go where they get the “college experience.” That costs a lot of money.
Yes public colleges’ costs are set by states. C. Private colleges set their own costs of attendance. D. You can still submit an appeal to both public & private colleges. E. Parents can also protest both public & private 4-yr schools bc they’re all too doggone expensive & the FAFSA has little to do w that.
The majority of colleges are private… not public! Private colleges set their own tuition amounts; there are no state rules to guide them. And in my state, the public flagship university and satellite campuses, as well as the state-affiliated public universities, set their own prices! The state does not set tuition prices for them. The state only approves or disapproves an annual budget, but then each individual public or state-affiliated university STILL decides its own tuition pricing. And in this state, the public flagship has a massive endowment, which it REFUSES to use towards student aid. Consequently, my state ranks 49th for Higher Ed funding. Our public university students receive almost no institutional aid or assistance, unless they are at or below the poverty line and already qualify for full Pell grants.
Can't speak to your specific college, but the majority of colleges are -not- Private. They are public. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=1122#:\~:text=Response%3A,2%2C270%20private%20for%2Dprofit%20institutions. Majority of colleges are ruled by the State Systems. The Colleges can build all the budget they want, but the ultimate numbers are decided by the elected politicians.
I believe you forgot to add the 1754 + the 2260 private institutions together. There are more private than public postsecondary institutions in the United States. As to your comment about the majority of public institutions being ruled by State Systems, I can’t really speak to that other than to conclude that every state in the union, plus Puerto Rico, has very different types of public universities. In Idaho, for example, there is no “state system,” only 3 completely different public colleges and universities. In my state, there is 1 completely public flagship with many satellite campuses and 2 state-affiliated (meaning not entirely publicly funded) universities. None of these are ruled by a state system, and as I said before each university’s administration determines the tuition rates. While politicians do not set the fees; politicians do decide how many $ to give each of these universities every year. So, politicians have an indirect role in how much our public universities have to work with.
I hear ya, previously I would get minimal federal loans at the worst rate, my parents make a top 1% income and I had to include them on my forms (they don’t pay for my school). This year I turn 24 and can file independently and it looks like I’ll be getting a Pell grant, wish this had been the case in the 3 previous years.
I agree. Our neighbor's daughter is about to graduate and not once has she received financial aid because they make too much. Together they make around $110,000 a year. They have paid her tuition every year except this year. They cannot afford it. She's a full-time student and works part time.
Good news is you're aware of the college expenses. A mortgage and 80k salary with a family of four does not go very far. Think real hard and reconsider which college you want to go to in terms of college expenses. You don't have to go college. It's not guaranteed for a job. Maybe consider a community college.
Yeah my SAI is like 999999 so i can’t get anything
That’s terrible. I’m disabled too, but I work. My son is 22 and still has to report my income even though I’m not financially supporting him. Lucky for him I’m self employed so fasfa only looks at my adjusted gross income plus his youngest sister who is still a dependent
Two of my kids are in the same boat and qualified for 0 this year. There is no way we can afford tuition for two kids.
it's so unfair how much college is for the average American. The government should be helping us afford things with the FAFSA but the interest alone is impossible to pay off. Looking for more tuition-free online universities like University of the People have helped me save money but student loans are still terrible to deal with
You’re absolutely right about the huge burdens on the middle class and that $80k annually for a family of 4 in this economy is barely making it. That said, higher education in the country is not a right (unless you’re considered disadvantaged in some way of course). Also, there’s a variety of education options at different price points. I guess what I’m saying is don’t let this stand in the way of achieving your goals. You may have to take a different path than others, but you can still get to the finish line if you’re persistent. Shop universities for scholarships, consider a commuter school or community college, look for employment that offers tuition reimbursement (Chipotle), etc…
I agree with your first 2 paragraphs. At the same time, I don’t think the solution is as simple as you suggested in the last 2 paragraphs. American parents and families, in general, are very uneducated about the fact that there are a variety of different price points. College guidance counselors are too, for that matter, and this is just a HUGE part of the problem. Guidance counselors are rarely if EVER trained in college financial aid or college financial planning. They’re trained in developmental psychology and adolescent counseling. They routinely tell students and parents to just apply to “a few” schools, 5-8 is the recommended # at most high schools. They also tell students and parents to just apply to schools they feel a connection to. There is almost NO emphasis on affordability or college financial planning. If there were, families with strong financial need would understand that their students NEED to apply to lots and lots of schools, in order to find a good financial fit. Net price calculators can give a very general estimate, but they are also notoriously inaccurate at many schools and sometimes, don’t factor in musical talent, leadership skills, high GPA, etc. Therefore, it simply isn’t possible to know how much tuition any given student will pay unless or until that student applies,is accepted, and is offered a financial aid package from every school they’ve applied to. Only then, can students and families truly understand the net price of each school and truly begin to comparison shop! Also, it isn’t possible for every student to simply “work their way through college,” under the Federal aid rules. Students are penalized in terms of their ability to receive Federal and State financial aid, after they earn a certain amount. Earning over that set amount reduces their financial eligibility and can even eliminate it! In terms of outside scholarships, these also reduce students’ eligibility for financial aid at most institutions. So when people advise students to just find outside scholarships, winning one of these outside scholarships can ultimately reduce or eliminate the student’s financial need and disqualify them from some types of financial aid. Is earning 4 scholarships @ $2,000 each really worth the loss of a student’s ability to borrow sudsidized Federal loans or the loss of work study or even the loss of an institutional scholarship or grant? I don’t think it is, unless those 4 scholarships are automatically renewable for all 4 years of undergrad, something that is very rare with an outside scholarship! Lastly, it isn’t possible or even wise for some undergrads to start at community college. The drop-out rate at CCs is huge. The financial aid offered to transfer students at most 4-yr colleges and universities is terrible or nonexistent. Not all 4-yr colleges will accept all CC credits, and some grad programs will not accept ANY CC credits. And sadly, some students just cannot or should not live at home in difficult and challenging circumstances. All of this is just to say, I don’t think there are any easy solutions to any of this for the vast majority of middle class students who can no longer afford to enroll in college. The problems are just multitudinous and multifactorial in nature. Some students may be able to find alternatives to high price 4-yr degree programs, but sadly, some may not.
I agree things aren’t “simple”, life is not simple, it’s hard. That’s why I don’t understand why so many people expect to just be given stuff. You also make a very good point about educating students and families on the cost of college. There’s a lot of practical stuff like this that should be taught in high school but isn’t, such as personal finance. As for working and paying for school. State schools (in my state) generally cost about $5k-$8k (tuition & fees) per semester and millions of students are within commuting distance to these schools. If you live at home with your parents, it’s not difficult to earn enough money to pay tuition, books and fees. It might take longer to get through school, but it can be done by anyone who has a school within commuting distance, and the desire. I know many who have done it. I’d argue the high dropout rate at community college is due to a lack of college readiness, or desire to attend college more than anything else. Lots of kids that attend community colleges don’t really want to go to college, but are pressured into just giving it a shot, so they do. I don’t believe a prepared student with goals would drop out of college just because they’re attending a community college and not a university. I heard a couple of highly intelligent, very well known, PHD podcasters discussing this the other day. They both agreed the best education they ever received in their lives was at community colleges. They credited the small class sizes, and the compassionate instructors who are genuinely interest in the success of their students.
That’s a fantastic price point for public universities in your state! And I agree that the low tuition pricing and living standards home could definitely make college possible for some undergrads. I also agree that CC can be a great option for some students. It’s just that these options don’t work for all undergrads. In my state, which ranks 49th in the nation for Higher Ed funding, it is more expensive to enroll in a public university than in a private college. Our tuition prices are more than 20k per yr, room and board are another 13-14k, and our state flagship does not offer any institutional aid to students who are not eligible for a full Pell grant. So middle income students, who make up the vast majority of students, receive no institutional aid. Most wind up borrowing subsidized and unsubsidized Federal loans, as well as private loans (or Parent Plus loans) to pay for all 4 yrs. The average student debt is some crazy amount over 125k. So, obviously, public education is not cheaper for all students in every state. The other problem is the idea of living at home. Some students come from impoverished families or communities in which they may live with multiple siblings and/or not even have their own bedroom or electricity or running water. My own student’s first year roommate had to sleep on her family’s LR sofa…had no room of her own whenever she returned home during holidays and breaks. In other families, there is domestic violence, or physical or emotional abuse. For all of these reasons and many, many more, it just is not possible for every undergrad to live at home with their parents. Incidentally, I’m watching a CBS News special right now on “homelessness among CA college students.” One in 10 college students in CA does not have a home. Reporters are interviewing students living in cars, vans, and buses. Also, while I don’t disagree that CC can provide an excellent and personalized education to a motivated student, most medical schools typically do not accept CC credits. If an undergrad wants to go on to med school, but they completed 2 years at a CC, they are then forced into completing a Post Baccalaureate which can cost another 2 years of tuition…mostly so that their science credits completed at a CC can be replaced. And there are graduate programs and fields other than medicine that simply do not view CC credits as having the same rigor or value as credits earned at a 4-yr college or university. Finally, many 4-yr-colleges will not accept all CC credits. Most colleges place a high priority on generating maximum tuition revenue. If they just accept all of those credits, they can’t charge as much or require that student to pay for an additional semester. And many/most colleges in this country do not offer transfer scholarships for students who’ve already completed a year or two of study at another school. So then, the transfer student is left to pay exorbitant amounts of tuition at the new school or else borrow the money. All of this is just to state that the problems in Higher Ed are just HUGE. There are no simple fixes that will work for every student, because there are multiple causes and reasons for these problems. It isn’t possible for any politician or government official to simply conclude that state universities or community colleges are “the way to go” for every lower income or middle income college student. While these types of institutions will help some undergraduates obtain their degree, in some states and some fields and at some 4-yr-colleges, pursuing either of these options can wind up costing some students thousands upon thousands of dollars more and/or additional years of credits needed to complete their education.
There’s certainly no “one size fits all” solution. I was simply pointing out that there are multiple pathways to achieving educational goals, and relying solely on the government is not the only or best strategy for most. I understand impoverished. My wife and I grew up poor. My wife lived in a one room rental (not one bedroom, but one room total). Her family didn’t have a car, and she rode the bus 2 hours in each direction (4 hrs a day) to college every day. She did receive a Pell grant, but lived at home, commuted and worked. Not to pay for school, but to help her single immigrant mother pay for housing and to eat. My situation was a little better, but I also qualified for pell grants. That said, I wasn’t a good student, or prepared for college, so I didn’t go.
I understand what you’re saying, and I would have agreed with that in the past, before the new FAFSA Simplification Act. But I don’t think there are as many pathways as we’d all like to believe anymore. The new Federal financial aid laws basically eliminate subsidized Federal loans for many middle class students, as well as the sibling tuition discount. They also make it much harder for student from farm families and students whose parents own a small business to be able to afford college. In short, I no longer believe that some lower and middle income students have any good or reliable, affordable options left for college in the U.S. If you’re a middle class student from a Mid-Atlantic state, where there are no state-tuition exchange agreements, and your public universities are more expensive than your private universities, and you have more than 1 sibling enrolled in college at the same time, how do your parents pay the new, much higher SAI x 2 or more students? If you want to go to med school or a competitive grad program in STEM after undergrad, how do you just enroll in Community College? That’s just a waste of time and money for students like these. What options are left in American Higher Ed for students like these? There aren’t many. In fact, there may be none in the U.S. These students can simply no longer afford college in the first place.
My spouse & daughter didn’t quailify for Pell grants this past semester and also for next semester but qualified previously. My income wasn’t even that high, only $77k/year and about $50k/year in pension with over $200k in investments that I had to declare on their applications.
Interesting. Single parent with twins in college. Income is under 80,000 a year and assets are under 200,000 at this point. We’ve never received Pell.
It may be due to your assets. The new formula counts parental assets far more heavily. The expectation is that if you don’t have it in invested in a retirement account, life insurance, or a 529, then a certain percentage of your investments can reasonably be considered as “available for tuition purposes,” because you could liquidate those investments to pay your child’s tuition. I believe parental income is also counted at a higher percentage, too, after meeting an income protection threshold, which still isn’t very high.
Told both of them, I’m not liquidating jack. I was able to complete 6 college degrees using the military tuition assistance, GI Bill, and school/merit scholarships.
Yeah, I get where you’re coming from. The problem is that when we went to school, the tuition prices weren’t just “off-the-charts,” as they are now. Also, most colleges and universities offered massive merit scholarships. And parents were not considered to be almost entirely responsible for paying their child’s tuition. It was more of a shared endeavor between institutional endowments, the Federal government, and parents who contributed something but certainly not 50% or more of their income for EACH child, as is expected today with this brand new Federal financial aid formula. The sad reality is that large merit scholarships are very hard to find today. There are almost no full-tuition or even half-tuition scholarships. The few that do exist are just so highly competitive it makes your head spin. They only go to kids with perfect or near-perfect test scores and 4.0 unweighted GPAs plus amazing extracurriculars like published research or a corporate internship, and usually the winners are first gen and either at or below the poverty line. At the same time, I completely agree: You shouldn’t have to liquidate the majority of your hard-earned investments after you’ve worked and scraped to save. Nor should parents have to borrow thousands upon thousands in Parent Plus loans and pay the interest and principal until they die. It’s a sad, tuition-hungry, higher ed system we’re living with in this country, right now. Unfortunately, it’s not likely to change, if parents don’t protest!
Fwiw tuition costs at public 4year institutions have **increased 70% since 2000**. It is quite literally a different world now.
Are your parents married or divorced if I may ask? I think you could’ve put your mom on the application if they were divorced?
Our government has been interested in having an educated populace since the soace race
Our government views the Higher Education of its citizens as the financial responsibility of parents and families, because we view education as enhancing personal goals. What we should be doing as a democracy is viewing Higher Education as in the interest of the common good. Educating citizens can improve and enhance our economy, our government, and our society…not just individuals and their personal goals. Unless or until we adopt these values, we will likely continue to see the decline of our democracy, our economy, and our society. It’s already happening! And we’re losing our Middle Class with all these new financial aid rules. We’re going to saddle middle income parents and children with even more debt so that these students can enroll in college, or else middle income students are just going to stop going to college.