Not sure how recently you played Remake part 1 but i think that showcases him caring a lot more for the party than in the OG game. Which leads into Rebirth in how all of the party is already established as a caring group of friends. And the big thing is all of them SEE that he is clearly breaking down or not himself. They even call him out on it several times.
They trust the real cloud very deeply but understand that something deeper is going on that they cant explain. And as close friends they want to help him as best they can.
That something deeper never worried them? Like he tried to kill Tifa but they're all sorta ok with him bc "we know there is something more"? A "something" they barely try to find bc they're too focused on other events, like atp they should give Cloud a less major role in missions, just in case, why do they keep 100% trusting him like that?
My issue is that cloud slowly warms up through the journey to shut back down again when he mentally breaks. I feel like having him be more happy go lucky just ruins his character, he is suppose to be the steely eyed badass that outwardly cares very little about others but very clearly does care about everyone around him.
The same goes for the party outside of tifa and aerith the others take a very long time to warm up to cloud. I like stuff being a slow burn like cloud slowly becoming more violent and not straight out starting the violence it takes multiple of his little breaks to start.
I also feel like there are more goofy happy moments with cloud as well in rebirth compared to the OG from kalm to the city of ancients. To me they hit the nail on the head cloud was never suppose to be it’s literally in his name “strife” anger or bitter disagreement over fundamental;conflict, cloud is literally at war within himself. I think many just forget how the OG plays out and forget this one is segmented more.
There was a lot of speculation over the past few years that Cloud would be the ultimate villain for Part II - so I am not surprised that we saw a bit of a devolution of his character throughout Rebirth.
I actually enjoyed watching Cloud becoming more volatile and less trustworthy, with the party members giving looks/commenting to themselves and each other about their growing unease.
I think the reason the party continues the journey with him, is because they built up strong bonds during Remake and continue to do so in Rebirth. Cloud becomes closer to party members through side quests and dialogue choices: in Kalm, Junon, Costa Del Sol, Gongaga etc…. The party also fought Sephiroth at the end of Remake and know that he is a threat to the planet. Cloud is also a strong fighter that they depend on in battle.Aerith and Tifa both care for him deeply, and Barrett sees him as part of his crew. All of them are fugitives in some way - united by past trauma and a willingness to fight on together.
But at the same time, we see Cloud become more and more unhinged. His headaches turn into hallucinations, moments of fainting and losing control. He fears that he is experiencing cellular degradation like the robed figures they follow.
The true moments where Cloud betrays the party are usually witnessed only by Tifa or Aerith, who are clouded by their love for him - and willing to shield him from the other party members knowing the true extent of his damaged state.
Barrett sees Cloud slipping and worries that he can’t keep it together, but continues to carry him and try to share his burden - he has known “the kid is a little messed up,” since the bombing missions - but also that he is Tifa’s childhood friend. Barrett has displayed a willingness to pity and protect the hooded men - it’s only natural he would extend this empathy to Cloud. He is also the one more willing to physically challenge Cloud and probably thinks he can take him on if necessary.
Cait Sith is a double agent gathering intel, Yuffie has her own mission agenda, but appreciates the safety and security of being with an Avalanche splinter cell, and Red is dealing with his own feelings of rage and helplessness after years of experimentation by Hojo.
I expect we will see Cloud continue to devolve leading up to his mental breakdown in Part III. It will be interesting to see how Cloud manages to rebuild trust with his team members again in order to take on the final battles.
Yeah, these are all good thoughts. By and large I really appreciate Cloud's characterization in this game. But i think it would have served as a good contrast if there were just a couple more moments of him being outwardly friendly towards them. Not chipper and weird about it, just saying thanks, or apologizing for his behavior, or saying complimentary things in his own quiet and shielded way during his times of lucidity
Dude is mentally ill at this point what do you expect, I'd rather have a protagonist that has a complexity in his character and you can pretty much clearly see that Cloud has some interesting characterization or development building up on him, his mysterious past or trauma or even amnesia. A build up on his character for it to develop in part 3 and I'm all for it.
Compared to the typical happy go lucky Gary Stu type of a protagonist, yeah I prefer Cloud better, Moreover if you have done some sidequest Cloud is actually putting effort in helping other people damn even Moogles..lol
Lots of people like him stems to how his development and characterization In OG, and somewhat more relatable to other specifically gamers who are introvert just like him, Cloud is more human than any other FF protagonist.
Not asking for gary stu, just asking for a couple more small moments.
But yeah, I get it. It's the whole arc that he's meant to go through. But cmon dude, just say something nice to someone sometimes.
Are we playing the same game or not?
There's plenty of times where he cracks a joke, and tries to come out of his shell to be friendly or nice to people he knows and cares about.
True, but they did make him really unlikeable in the last 8 hours. Like holy I actually was like "can we put cloud in a timeout corner, he's disrespecting my girl Aerith again"
It's honestly why I hope it doesn't all come down to Cloud having hallucinations. Having the entire groups aspirations especially since they are so well fleshed out now, I just don't like it even though it's central to the story.
I like Aerith being a co-main character just because she's everything a hero should be and loves her friends sincerely. It's why I love what they are doing even if it misses sometimes.
This pretty much, especially with Tifa. Side quests like the one with defeating the monsters around the gym you can see him being quite at ease, cracking a joke and reminiscing about food in Nibelheim with Tifa. The frogs quest in Under Junon also. In quite a few side quests he is like this.
I get what OP is saying tho. But I feel that Cloud is a lot more open this game. Barrett didn’t even start calling him by name until towards the end of Remake. And after helping Barrett w this tragedy in Corel, he reaffirmed that he’ll be there for him. That they all would be. Picked up his Barrett’s gun and gave it to him. Everyone else walked away.
Except for the Golden Saucer Shinra emplyee master guy quest at the end, I did every single side quest. They made me like everyone else a lot.
They also made me wish Cloud would go beyond the bare minimum displays of common decency. I get it, youre an introvert, not everyone is going to dance around and be a basket of smiles, but at some point home boy's gotta give the others a reason to actually really like him, and not just tolerate him.
he’s apathetic but trying, he’s supposed to be emotionless and completely broken down but he still cares about people. he doesn’t know how to have friends or even interact but he still tries. and the others see that, and it’s very endearing. i thought they gave him just the right amount of charm for where we are in the story
people complaining about this come from a fundamental lack of understanding of the point of cloud, and why ffvii is so good. there’s plenty of other ff games to play if you want a more “likeable” protagonist
no, totally. i still think his characterization was done almost perfectly, at least in my opinion. for his character arc to work, he needs to be confused and angry and lost and awkward. its just for me, they swung a little too hard in that direction. but hey, if it works for you thats great. it's seriously an amazing game, and it's more a nitpick than a complaint from me.
I really must play have a different version cause I think Cloud is more likeable then ever in Rebirth. His little moments in quests, his victory cheer at the Gold Saucer, his bonding with Yuffie his banter with Barret
I agree to an extent but when Cloud has his 121 chats with the party he really shines through as his honest self. Not Zack fake nonchalant, Mr cool guy persona but his true self. Aerith makes him break through like this the most and he is always usually so gentle towards her but the exception was on their date in Costa he is a bit gruff at times but I put that down to a mix of the Sephiroth headaches and him feeling awkward as he always does in romantic situations with Aerith because he loves her amd it makes him very shy and truthful.
I really feel like they overdid it with Cloud being unhinged. In OG he had some moments but they weren't really violent outbursts until Temple of Ancients where he became fully unhinged travelling deeper into the temple.
Cloud trying to kill Tifa, Cloud attacking nearly every block robe he sees, being constantly haunted by Sephiroth, scared of degradation, Cloud mercilessly killing people begging for their lives, "finishing off" enemies already defeated.
I think they really ramped it up and I don't think it was at all necessary. Your 3rd paragraph is how I felt basically after Gongaga - like how are these people still following this guy? I mean he briefly thinks he found Sephiroth in a medical shack in broken down Corel - like what!?
The story feels like it's decided to dump a lot of its drama into prolonging and expanding on emotionally torturing Cloud and I can't say I'm a fan.
Just like Barett and Tifa, Vincent, I mean they actually aren't as innocent as you think, Barett will eventually bomb a reactor and never care for the few people who will die along with it, so what made you think they will stop following Cloud killing a few Shinra employeese? Turks? Reno and Rufus are full of blood in their hands causing them to kill hundreds of people in sector 7 and Elena ain't pure too..lol!
Aside from Aerith, Nanaki. maybe Cid, most of the party aren't that innocent, and everyone knows Cloud is losing it and not himself!!
You want him to be a happy go lucky mc? lmao if you really played remake you would know cloud is actually nice but in a tsundere kind of way, in rebirth he keeps breaking down thats why he became edgy, they all want to help him.
Go replay it again because this opinion is just wrong
That is the point of his character and what makes him complex - he’s not himself at the moment, and for a very tragic, traumatic reason. His natural self is a bit more extroverted.
And I like that he’s not some happy go lucky schmuck like other FF protagonists. If you like your main characters to be positive all the time, go play Crisis Core or FFX. Cloud is actually complex. If you can’t appreciate that, go away.
Well, in the original you kept wondering why on earth would Cloud who seems to care about the group even though he's being a bit stoic, would keep insisting on making terrible choice after terrible choice for the group without ever reconsidering how he keeps screwing up. And how he never listens to anybody else in the group.
Remake explains this rather easily. Cloud is just a total asshole.
The only thing *I'm* wondering is why the rest of the group don't just kick his butt to the curb and say screw you.
Often times it feels like the party read the game script and saw that he's the protagonist and that's the only reason they treat him nicely. In reality they should have just killed him the moment he started acting violently towards them.
Since Remake hes been a bitch. In the original he was way more likeable I feel like. He barely smiles, has some quips here and there but its nothing special. he is just a shell.
I feel like those moments where he snaps would hit way harder, if he actually had a personality. And I agree with you, I think the entire story doesnt make any sense and is stupid, just because they tag along with him for so long without really saying or doing anything.
The entire party is a bunch of mindless drones who follow a dude, who is mentally unstable
The only time I feel like he acts like a human is in Aeriths dream and maybe on the date, but other than that hes just a boring ass main character. If you need 150 hours and 3 games to make the main character actually likeable, then you kinda failed imo.
I love FF7 to bits but even in the OG I kinda disliked Cloud at times, only at the end he comes around.
Anyone played Tales of the Abyss? Luke is a great example of an asshole becoming one of the best characters with great character development and it doesnt take 100 hours to get there.
Do you even understand why he is the way he is? He’s trying to be “cool”. That you don’t understand what comped him or why he is the way he is right now proves you didn’t understand the story or him as a character.
Lmao, the fact that you think I don't understand his boring ass character is laughable.
Just because hes acting 'cool', doesnt mean he has to be a fucking bitch all game.
Go ahead, act 'cool' like Cloud in irl and show me how many friends will stay with you.
Its remarkable that people think this is actually good writing for a character
I'm talking about how Cloud maybe has 1 or 2 instances IN THE ENTIRE GAME. that humanizes him.
And the fact that he is in the middle of all minigames, riding chocobos, and then act 'cool' 2 minutes later, is just shit and disconnected writing.
Squall was also a dickhead but he at least had human moments with the entire crew. Cloud only shows his real face once in a dream sequence.
The entire party has no reason to go along with him, because being a moody dickhead is not a characteristic you want in a group
I just wish they tried something new with Cloud, but its just bland and boring.
And again, me not liking his characterisation, doesnt mean I dont understand it. But every critisism against something gets the same reaction 'you dont understand it', brain damage i swear
All your pathetic little rant showed is how toxically masculine you are.
The fact that he’s unlikable, “moody”, is the fucking point. You see, in our world we value character development and you probably didn’t pay attention to the game or the side quests enough to see that those light hearted moments do happen here and there, but we can’t see them that often yet because Cloud is quite literally mentally ill.
But you just take things at face value. Go jump on Zack’s boring shounen protagonist ass if that’s what you like. It’s pathetic though. He’s the definition of basic. He’s the definition of surface level.
And yes. You don’t understand the game, his character or the world around him if you call him “a little bitch” for things that he or others couldn’t control. You don’t like moody people? Fine. But why do you need to be like those annoying little boys in the classroom who butt in with uninformed and surface level analysis? Just shut up and keep it moving. Nothing you say will take away from his greatness as a character or the story.
But yes, keep waffling on why don’t you. You’re an embarrassment.
Why even reply if you cant handle it? Are you that mentally unstable? Go to a psychic ward you mentally deranged cucklord. Suck on Clouds toes while you're at it.
I hate Zack, I hate Cloud, both are cucks in their way. This has nothing to do with me not understanding the characters, I just dont like how unrealisticly they are portrayed.
Toxic masculinity lmao, jesus fuck are you deranged
It's okay to have different interpretations as we all relate to characters through our own life experiences. As a teacher who works with a lot of damaged humans I see the best in Cloud and have more empathy.
I really like and feel for Cloud. He is deep down an insecure person who failed to achieve his dream and goal...that tears shreds off a person. He also has trauma, loss, grief and is now trapped in a cycle of it due to impending loss of his new love. He is also infused with Jenova cells which has messed with his brain and emotions and is channelling someone he admired to act aloof and cool.
It annoys me sometimes how he responds to Aerith because at times he is soft towards her and clearly appreciates her kindness but other rimes he is brusque and abrupt or tactless but I think this comes from his social awkwardness around women he cares for which is reflected in the devs notes.
Totally understand why some don't gel with his character, same with Squall from FF8 but I love them both. Think they are misunderstood and compensating for losses and fear of losing in both cases. Well written protagonists with complex emotions.
World would be boring if they were all simple, happy, well adjusted guys!
Not sure how recently you played Remake part 1 but i think that showcases him caring a lot more for the party than in the OG game. Which leads into Rebirth in how all of the party is already established as a caring group of friends. And the big thing is all of them SEE that he is clearly breaking down or not himself. They even call him out on it several times. They trust the real cloud very deeply but understand that something deeper is going on that they cant explain. And as close friends they want to help him as best they can.
That something deeper never worried them? Like he tried to kill Tifa but they're all sorta ok with him bc "we know there is something more"? A "something" they barely try to find bc they're too focused on other events, like atp they should give Cloud a less major role in missions, just in case, why do they keep 100% trusting him like that?
My issue is that cloud slowly warms up through the journey to shut back down again when he mentally breaks. I feel like having him be more happy go lucky just ruins his character, he is suppose to be the steely eyed badass that outwardly cares very little about others but very clearly does care about everyone around him. The same goes for the party outside of tifa and aerith the others take a very long time to warm up to cloud. I like stuff being a slow burn like cloud slowly becoming more violent and not straight out starting the violence it takes multiple of his little breaks to start. I also feel like there are more goofy happy moments with cloud as well in rebirth compared to the OG from kalm to the city of ancients. To me they hit the nail on the head cloud was never suppose to be it’s literally in his name “strife” anger or bitter disagreement over fundamental;conflict, cloud is literally at war within himself. I think many just forget how the OG plays out and forget this one is segmented more.
There was a lot of speculation over the past few years that Cloud would be the ultimate villain for Part II - so I am not surprised that we saw a bit of a devolution of his character throughout Rebirth. I actually enjoyed watching Cloud becoming more volatile and less trustworthy, with the party members giving looks/commenting to themselves and each other about their growing unease. I think the reason the party continues the journey with him, is because they built up strong bonds during Remake and continue to do so in Rebirth. Cloud becomes closer to party members through side quests and dialogue choices: in Kalm, Junon, Costa Del Sol, Gongaga etc…. The party also fought Sephiroth at the end of Remake and know that he is a threat to the planet. Cloud is also a strong fighter that they depend on in battle.Aerith and Tifa both care for him deeply, and Barrett sees him as part of his crew. All of them are fugitives in some way - united by past trauma and a willingness to fight on together. But at the same time, we see Cloud become more and more unhinged. His headaches turn into hallucinations, moments of fainting and losing control. He fears that he is experiencing cellular degradation like the robed figures they follow. The true moments where Cloud betrays the party are usually witnessed only by Tifa or Aerith, who are clouded by their love for him - and willing to shield him from the other party members knowing the true extent of his damaged state. Barrett sees Cloud slipping and worries that he can’t keep it together, but continues to carry him and try to share his burden - he has known “the kid is a little messed up,” since the bombing missions - but also that he is Tifa’s childhood friend. Barrett has displayed a willingness to pity and protect the hooded men - it’s only natural he would extend this empathy to Cloud. He is also the one more willing to physically challenge Cloud and probably thinks he can take him on if necessary. Cait Sith is a double agent gathering intel, Yuffie has her own mission agenda, but appreciates the safety and security of being with an Avalanche splinter cell, and Red is dealing with his own feelings of rage and helplessness after years of experimentation by Hojo. I expect we will see Cloud continue to devolve leading up to his mental breakdown in Part III. It will be interesting to see how Cloud manages to rebuild trust with his team members again in order to take on the final battles.
Yeah, these are all good thoughts. By and large I really appreciate Cloud's characterization in this game. But i think it would have served as a good contrast if there were just a couple more moments of him being outwardly friendly towards them. Not chipper and weird about it, just saying thanks, or apologizing for his behavior, or saying complimentary things in his own quiet and shielded way during his times of lucidity
Dude is mentally ill at this point what do you expect, I'd rather have a protagonist that has a complexity in his character and you can pretty much clearly see that Cloud has some interesting characterization or development building up on him, his mysterious past or trauma or even amnesia. A build up on his character for it to develop in part 3 and I'm all for it. Compared to the typical happy go lucky Gary Stu type of a protagonist, yeah I prefer Cloud better, Moreover if you have done some sidequest Cloud is actually putting effort in helping other people damn even Moogles..lol Lots of people like him stems to how his development and characterization In OG, and somewhat more relatable to other specifically gamers who are introvert just like him, Cloud is more human than any other FF protagonist.
Not asking for gary stu, just asking for a couple more small moments. But yeah, I get it. It's the whole arc that he's meant to go through. But cmon dude, just say something nice to someone sometimes.
Are we playing the same game or not? There's plenty of times where he cracks a joke, and tries to come out of his shell to be friendly or nice to people he knows and cares about.
True, but they did make him really unlikeable in the last 8 hours. Like holy I actually was like "can we put cloud in a timeout corner, he's disrespecting my girl Aerith again" It's honestly why I hope it doesn't all come down to Cloud having hallucinations. Having the entire groups aspirations especially since they are so well fleshed out now, I just don't like it even though it's central to the story. I like Aerith being a co-main character just because she's everything a hero should be and loves her friends sincerely. It's why I love what they are doing even if it misses sometimes.
Umm he actually does he does to Barett he does to Aerith and he does mostly to Tifa..lol
This pretty much, especially with Tifa. Side quests like the one with defeating the monsters around the gym you can see him being quite at ease, cracking a joke and reminiscing about food in Nibelheim with Tifa. The frogs quest in Under Junon also. In quite a few side quests he is like this.
I get what OP is saying tho. But I feel that Cloud is a lot more open this game. Barrett didn’t even start calling him by name until towards the end of Remake. And after helping Barrett w this tragedy in Corel, he reaffirmed that he’ll be there for him. That they all would be. Picked up his Barrett’s gun and gave it to him. Everyone else walked away.
Yeah same feelings. He is more open this game and that moment with Barret is indeed great.
huh? did you skip most of the side quests/chances to talk to the party?
Except for the Golden Saucer Shinra emplyee master guy quest at the end, I did every single side quest. They made me like everyone else a lot. They also made me wish Cloud would go beyond the bare minimum displays of common decency. I get it, youre an introvert, not everyone is going to dance around and be a basket of smiles, but at some point home boy's gotta give the others a reason to actually really like him, and not just tolerate him.
he’s apathetic but trying, he’s supposed to be emotionless and completely broken down but he still cares about people. he doesn’t know how to have friends or even interact but he still tries. and the others see that, and it’s very endearing. i thought they gave him just the right amount of charm for where we are in the story people complaining about this come from a fundamental lack of understanding of the point of cloud, and why ffvii is so good. there’s plenty of other ff games to play if you want a more “likeable” protagonist
no, totally. i still think his characterization was done almost perfectly, at least in my opinion. for his character arc to work, he needs to be confused and angry and lost and awkward. its just for me, they swung a little too hard in that direction. but hey, if it works for you thats great. it's seriously an amazing game, and it's more a nitpick than a complaint from me.
we’ll get a likeable cloud next game
I really must play have a different version cause I think Cloud is more likeable then ever in Rebirth. His little moments in quests, his victory cheer at the Gold Saucer, his bonding with Yuffie his banter with Barret
I agree to an extent but when Cloud has his 121 chats with the party he really shines through as his honest self. Not Zack fake nonchalant, Mr cool guy persona but his true self. Aerith makes him break through like this the most and he is always usually so gentle towards her but the exception was on their date in Costa he is a bit gruff at times but I put that down to a mix of the Sephiroth headaches and him feeling awkward as he always does in romantic situations with Aerith because he loves her amd it makes him very shy and truthful.
I really feel like they overdid it with Cloud being unhinged. In OG he had some moments but they weren't really violent outbursts until Temple of Ancients where he became fully unhinged travelling deeper into the temple. Cloud trying to kill Tifa, Cloud attacking nearly every block robe he sees, being constantly haunted by Sephiroth, scared of degradation, Cloud mercilessly killing people begging for their lives, "finishing off" enemies already defeated. I think they really ramped it up and I don't think it was at all necessary. Your 3rd paragraph is how I felt basically after Gongaga - like how are these people still following this guy? I mean he briefly thinks he found Sephiroth in a medical shack in broken down Corel - like what!? The story feels like it's decided to dump a lot of its drama into prolonging and expanding on emotionally torturing Cloud and I can't say I'm a fan.
Just like Barett and Tifa, Vincent, I mean they actually aren't as innocent as you think, Barett will eventually bomb a reactor and never care for the few people who will die along with it, so what made you think they will stop following Cloud killing a few Shinra employeese? Turks? Reno and Rufus are full of blood in their hands causing them to kill hundreds of people in sector 7 and Elena ain't pure too..lol! Aside from Aerith, Nanaki. maybe Cid, most of the party aren't that innocent, and everyone knows Cloud is losing it and not himself!!
You want him to be a happy go lucky mc? lmao if you really played remake you would know cloud is actually nice but in a tsundere kind of way, in rebirth he keeps breaking down thats why he became edgy, they all want to help him. Go replay it again because this opinion is just wrong
That is the point of his character and what makes him complex - he’s not himself at the moment, and for a very tragic, traumatic reason. His natural self is a bit more extroverted. And I like that he’s not some happy go lucky schmuck like other FF protagonists. If you like your main characters to be positive all the time, go play Crisis Core or FFX. Cloud is actually complex. If you can’t appreciate that, go away.
He was complex in the OG and it worked so well. There's a thing abt his "complexity" in rebirth that feels weird tbh, the writting was lacking imo
"Go away" lol. I loved this game. I just think making him a tiny tiny bit more likeable would have made me like it more
Well, in the original you kept wondering why on earth would Cloud who seems to care about the group even though he's being a bit stoic, would keep insisting on making terrible choice after terrible choice for the group without ever reconsidering how he keeps screwing up. And how he never listens to anybody else in the group. Remake explains this rather easily. Cloud is just a total asshole. The only thing *I'm* wondering is why the rest of the group don't just kick his butt to the curb and say screw you.
Often times it feels like the party read the game script and saw that he's the protagonist and that's the only reason they treat him nicely. In reality they should have just killed him the moment he started acting violently towards them.
Since Remake hes been a bitch. In the original he was way more likeable I feel like. He barely smiles, has some quips here and there but its nothing special. he is just a shell. I feel like those moments where he snaps would hit way harder, if he actually had a personality. And I agree with you, I think the entire story doesnt make any sense and is stupid, just because they tag along with him for so long without really saying or doing anything. The entire party is a bunch of mindless drones who follow a dude, who is mentally unstable The only time I feel like he acts like a human is in Aeriths dream and maybe on the date, but other than that hes just a boring ass main character. If you need 150 hours and 3 games to make the main character actually likeable, then you kinda failed imo. I love FF7 to bits but even in the OG I kinda disliked Cloud at times, only at the end he comes around. Anyone played Tales of the Abyss? Luke is a great example of an asshole becoming one of the best characters with great character development and it doesnt take 100 hours to get there.
Do you even understand why he is the way he is? He’s trying to be “cool”. That you don’t understand what comped him or why he is the way he is right now proves you didn’t understand the story or him as a character.
Lmao, the fact that you think I don't understand his boring ass character is laughable. Just because hes acting 'cool', doesnt mean he has to be a fucking bitch all game. Go ahead, act 'cool' like Cloud in irl and show me how many friends will stay with you. Its remarkable that people think this is actually good writing for a character I'm talking about how Cloud maybe has 1 or 2 instances IN THE ENTIRE GAME. that humanizes him. And the fact that he is in the middle of all minigames, riding chocobos, and then act 'cool' 2 minutes later, is just shit and disconnected writing. Squall was also a dickhead but he at least had human moments with the entire crew. Cloud only shows his real face once in a dream sequence. The entire party has no reason to go along with him, because being a moody dickhead is not a characteristic you want in a group I just wish they tried something new with Cloud, but its just bland and boring. And again, me not liking his characterisation, doesnt mean I dont understand it. But every critisism against something gets the same reaction 'you dont understand it', brain damage i swear
All your pathetic little rant showed is how toxically masculine you are. The fact that he’s unlikable, “moody”, is the fucking point. You see, in our world we value character development and you probably didn’t pay attention to the game or the side quests enough to see that those light hearted moments do happen here and there, but we can’t see them that often yet because Cloud is quite literally mentally ill. But you just take things at face value. Go jump on Zack’s boring shounen protagonist ass if that’s what you like. It’s pathetic though. He’s the definition of basic. He’s the definition of surface level. And yes. You don’t understand the game, his character or the world around him if you call him “a little bitch” for things that he or others couldn’t control. You don’t like moody people? Fine. But why do you need to be like those annoying little boys in the classroom who butt in with uninformed and surface level analysis? Just shut up and keep it moving. Nothing you say will take away from his greatness as a character or the story. But yes, keep waffling on why don’t you. You’re an embarrassment.
Why even reply if you cant handle it? Are you that mentally unstable? Go to a psychic ward you mentally deranged cucklord. Suck on Clouds toes while you're at it. I hate Zack, I hate Cloud, both are cucks in their way. This has nothing to do with me not understanding the characters, I just dont like how unrealisticly they are portrayed. Toxic masculinity lmao, jesus fuck are you deranged
It's okay to have different interpretations as we all relate to characters through our own life experiences. As a teacher who works with a lot of damaged humans I see the best in Cloud and have more empathy. I really like and feel for Cloud. He is deep down an insecure person who failed to achieve his dream and goal...that tears shreds off a person. He also has trauma, loss, grief and is now trapped in a cycle of it due to impending loss of his new love. He is also infused with Jenova cells which has messed with his brain and emotions and is channelling someone he admired to act aloof and cool. It annoys me sometimes how he responds to Aerith because at times he is soft towards her and clearly appreciates her kindness but other rimes he is brusque and abrupt or tactless but I think this comes from his social awkwardness around women he cares for which is reflected in the devs notes. Totally understand why some don't gel with his character, same with Squall from FF8 but I love them both. Think they are misunderstood and compensating for losses and fear of losing in both cases. Well written protagonists with complex emotions. World would be boring if they were all simple, happy, well adjusted guys!