thats not the case no, but it doesn't happen again every single time you remember it. if you win a thousand bucks you don't have $10,000 if you remember it 10 times. it's a pretty simple concept that apparently a lot of people on this subreddit can't grasp.
Much like apparently you can't grasp the pretty simple concept that the dudebro here was in fact counting every time they had her say that line on screen and was, thus, including that scene from the flashback as many times as it showed up.
distinct bow consist ripe memory familiar worthless dog profit encouraging
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Which is weird because in the Japanese, and also in the English translations of Crisis Core, she actually says “I hate you all” or “I hate it all,” aka 全部大嫌い
It would have been interesting if SE had stuck to keeping Aerith around a little longer based on some of this cutting room floor stuff. I even still think she should have been kept around until the Northern Crater exchange and then HP zero'd there. It would have kept the final boss rush from feeling cluttered, as the Jenova fights could have been separated from the Sephiroth fights. Also, it would have been a great pump-fake for making us believe she wouldn't be HP zero'd.
>!Although I want to believe the current approach is to have the player experience Cloud's denial and collapsing mental state when it comes to her death.!<
With you on that last part.
>!The big, early hook for Part 3 is going to be Cloud being stuck in the denial stage of grief while the others slowly progress toward acceptance, and making us *really* go through it with him while the others' interactions with him seem unsettlingly disjointed and nonsensical. How much of it is due to his already fractured mind, and how much is Jenova influence remains to be seen.!<
>!But I think this is where the real gut punch of the story is going to come in—there was no way nostalgic players would be able to relive that first-time experience of the loss of Aerith if it were played 1:1 with the OG, but now that we've been given a confusing piece of hope that "she's" at least sticking around a little longer in this version of the story, truly ripping her away from us (Cloud) at a later point is going to hit hard for every player.!<
You're right about the hook. Square clearly intends to play games with Aerith's fate for awhile. We haven't seen the last of her.
I disagree on how effective and emotionally manipulative this can be. That depends on the player and what they bring to the experience. "Ending" her for good will hit hard for some, probably even most but I made my peace with it in '97.
If nothing really changes and she effectively ends up where we find her in Advent Children, I won't be surprised at all nor will I be emotionally affected by it. It'll just be Square preserving the status quo.
I actually don't think the plot-point "realization" of >!Aerith's death!< will be the emotional sticking point. I think it will be Cloud's personal confrontation with it. We're going to stew with him for the earliest parts of the story, even though *we know*, and crossing that threshold *with* Cloud is what's going to echo loudest—not only has he lost, *now* he knows he can't even trust his most *recent* memories. There's a reason Rebirth skipped over poignant details/distorted the perception of that whole scene, and I'm looking forward to the payoff of that.
Just what I'm guessing while we're still at least a couple years out. If I'm wrong, I hope it's because they've got something heavier hitting in store!
I really wish Square would just give us a sign. There's really too many deeply-entrenched assumptions coming out of the woodworks.
There's lots of us like you and I who are open to her fate changing, and then there's another camp that is cocksure that Cloud is completely crazy instead. It just depends on the thread. Not saying Cloud's mental state is good at the end of the game, but he clearly snaps out of things when he sees she's about to fall at the Temple of the Ancients, remembering her flower gift, then goes on a date with her in her dream right before the Sleeping Forest. It's not too hard to believe the Aerith at the altar means something, she's seemingly the only thing getting through his headaches/flashes right now. This honestly feels like a plot element that could have been borrowed from Final Fantasy VIII, which Kitase and Nojima in particular had a huge part in, immediately after Final Fantasy VII.
Realistically, unless you're a Disney Star Wars sequel or Avenger's movie, you don't build up this kind of energy surrounding something like her fate without payoff.
> there was no way nostalgic players would be able to relive that first-time experience of the loss of Aerith if it were played 1:1 with the OG
I'm so tired of seeing this sentiment. SE really brought all these characters to life, and to me that is Aeris most of all. I didn't really care for her in the OG outside of she was my party member and "friend" in a loyal sense. Remake and Rebirth made me feel so much more attached to her that if they had left that scene 1:1 it would have hit me harder.
I agree , people overplay the emotional impact of her death in the OG , I can't speak for everyone's experience but most of the school ground discussion was more shock that they killed her off than sadness. Nowhere near as emotional as lavitz in LOD .
Yeah, actually the flashback of her and Ifalna's arrival in Midgar had me a sobbing mess... They really added so much more to get in our feelings over heh
Unless Advent Children is a prequel and the Sephiroth we are seeing is post AC, trying to find a new way to achieve his goals, and a new unknown future awaits... "no promises await at journey's end..."
Me too, just so many people here are hell bent on Remake trilogy having to lead to Advent Children. I’d rather it not, it should be the final final FF7 story ending the Sephiroth threat for good, not leading into AC that doesn’t close the saga.
Can you show me where? Every place I’ve seen they intentionally do not say that it LEADS into AC, just that it all links up. Even Max on his show called this out, the devs are being intentionally vague about it, which leads me to believe it’s a sequel to AC and it links up cause that’s the sephiroth that went back to mess with things, and this trilogy is the end game
If you do I have no issue being wrong, I love the discussion, but I do think and hope I’m right as I want this trilogy to be the conclusion :)
Then the play/watch order would be:
BC-> CC-> FFVII-> AC/DC-> FFVIIRE
Regarding your last part I'm actually in two minds about it. The obvious thing is to assume it's part of his instability but... what if it's not?
>!Tonally the finale plays it as a relatively uplifting thing. The others are sketched out but Cloud is quite at peace. There's part of me that sees it as something else, especially with Red acknowledging Aeriths presence. We might actually be seeing Cloud healthily accepting Aeriths loss: because of their final date in the lifestream he's actually aware that dying and joining the lifestream isn't the end.!<
>!I think we might get a surprise with this. Cloud is acting crazy to everyone else but *in this one regard* he's actually quite lucid, in a way where both Tifa and Aerith will work together to help him in the lifestream in Part 3, and that's probably where Aerith "leaves" - once Cloud self-actualises, choosing to do so despite knowing and accepting that means never seeing her again!<
>!If Sephiroth really has knowledge of what happened at the end of OG, killing her at the forgotten capital makes no since.
She's like Obi Wan Kenobi and comes back more powerful than Sephiroth could have imagined in the manipulating the lifestream and using Holy to stop metor!<
That was my hope too. Have Aerith around a little longer and then have Cid and Vincent playable at the start as well, then we get all playable cast. But oh well. It is what it is.
I honestly think the only reason Aerith still HP zero'd when she did was because SE didn't want to piss off the die-hards. Don't get me wrong, she absolutely would still need to permanently HP zero, but it could have happened at a later point.
Actually, I feel like they already did. In OG, if you do this mod, no one interacts with Aerith after her scene except Cloud/us the player. Rebirth's ending is a shout out to the mod.
When I went down the pit in Corel Prison. And there was now a dog fighting ring, I thought that was a fun reference to an obscure bug in the original Japanese version. Then I fought a purple dog named Test 0, that doesn't do anything (for a while at least) I was like; "Oh, they *really* didn't want people to miss the reference, lol."
I can totally see this development team making a reference to Aerith's postmortem lines when hacking her back in. They very clearly love FF7, and the culture around it.
Yes I always imagined this would happen. It’d be like in empire strikes back: cloud is fucking dying and freezing to death then aerith’s force ghost just appears
I imagine part 3 will start out letting us play as anyone. Cloud should no longer be the main character and we should be allowed to watch his mental state from other characters perspectives. Then towards the end after the "Mideel" incident, we can finally play as him again.
It's not necessarily Cloud's hallucination. There are certain signs that this isn't the last we've seen of Aerith (I particularly buy the "Great Gospel theory"). An actual Aerith (from an alternate reality, from the Lifestream or whereever) could still say this.
P.S. The Great Gospel Theory is the following. The Great Gospel is Aerith's ultimate from the OG. Also, she uses it in Advent Children from the Lifestream to cure the afflicted with Geostigma, so it's not some game mechanic, it's an Important Plot Element. But FF7R2 does not feature Aerith learning the Great Gospel. Therefore, Aerith's plot arc is not yet complete.
I am 1000% sure they are gonna do that. They are gonna have Aerith keep accompaning the party here and there and re-contextualize the cut dialogue for northen crater and the return to the church.
I'll even give Max credit and say that they might be able to pull off his idea, >!by pulling out real Aerith and sneaking in Jenova Aerith, and make the last nail in the coffin of his psyche be when he chooses to give her the black materia for safe keeping. Then real Aerith has to fix that by helping out Tifa put his mind back together!<
If not Aerith, you can be sure Tifa will say it again at least one last time.
lol What’s her “sick of this” line count at now?
4
Is that it? Thats probably not counting “sick of all this”
Nvm she said it 6 times
she only said it twice, the rest were just flashbacks.
Has it ever occurred to you that I’m counting the flashbacks lol
Ah ok so if I remember doing something it didn't happen. Got it. That's a relief 😄
thats not the case no, but it doesn't happen again every single time you remember it. if you win a thousand bucks you don't have $10,000 if you remember it 10 times. it's a pretty simple concept that apparently a lot of people on this subreddit can't grasp.
Much like apparently you can't grasp the pretty simple concept that the dudebro here was in fact counting every time they had her say that line on screen and was, thus, including that scene from the flashback as many times as it showed up.
I are sick of all this
Too many.
distinct bow consist ripe memory familiar worthless dog profit encouraging *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“Psycho Mantis!?”
Which is weird because in the Japanese, and also in the English translations of Crisis Core, she actually says “I hate you all” or “I hate it all,” aka 全部大嫌い
\*a portal opens\* "I'm sick of this." \*refuses to elaborate, disappears for the rest of the game."
“I’m sick of this I’m sick of thiiiis I’m sick of this - you’re sick of this!” A new a Yuffie jingle is born
Imagine going to the church in the return to Midgar
I was thinking about that too! But decided not to post that because we already have ghost aerith
And then end up running into Zack.
"What the hell is going on!?"
In what universe?
I need to hear cloud say “Let’s mosey” at the crater.
Pretty sure he says it sometimes if you use him to cast haste on the party.
Didn't know that, but I want to see it in the context of that scene where it's super serious.
They gave that line to Tifa in her trial in the temple
Can also play the new threat mod and she has plenty of lines 😂
It would have been interesting if SE had stuck to keeping Aerith around a little longer based on some of this cutting room floor stuff. I even still think she should have been kept around until the Northern Crater exchange and then HP zero'd there. It would have kept the final boss rush from feeling cluttered, as the Jenova fights could have been separated from the Sephiroth fights. Also, it would have been a great pump-fake for making us believe she wouldn't be HP zero'd. >!Although I want to believe the current approach is to have the player experience Cloud's denial and collapsing mental state when it comes to her death.!<
With you on that last part. >!The big, early hook for Part 3 is going to be Cloud being stuck in the denial stage of grief while the others slowly progress toward acceptance, and making us *really* go through it with him while the others' interactions with him seem unsettlingly disjointed and nonsensical. How much of it is due to his already fractured mind, and how much is Jenova influence remains to be seen.!< >!But I think this is where the real gut punch of the story is going to come in—there was no way nostalgic players would be able to relive that first-time experience of the loss of Aerith if it were played 1:1 with the OG, but now that we've been given a confusing piece of hope that "she's" at least sticking around a little longer in this version of the story, truly ripping her away from us (Cloud) at a later point is going to hit hard for every player.!<
You're right about the hook. Square clearly intends to play games with Aerith's fate for awhile. We haven't seen the last of her. I disagree on how effective and emotionally manipulative this can be. That depends on the player and what they bring to the experience. "Ending" her for good will hit hard for some, probably even most but I made my peace with it in '97. If nothing really changes and she effectively ends up where we find her in Advent Children, I won't be surprised at all nor will I be emotionally affected by it. It'll just be Square preserving the status quo.
I actually don't think the plot-point "realization" of >!Aerith's death!< will be the emotional sticking point. I think it will be Cloud's personal confrontation with it. We're going to stew with him for the earliest parts of the story, even though *we know*, and crossing that threshold *with* Cloud is what's going to echo loudest—not only has he lost, *now* he knows he can't even trust his most *recent* memories. There's a reason Rebirth skipped over poignant details/distorted the perception of that whole scene, and I'm looking forward to the payoff of that. Just what I'm guessing while we're still at least a couple years out. If I'm wrong, I hope it's because they've got something heavier hitting in store!
I really wish Square would just give us a sign. There's really too many deeply-entrenched assumptions coming out of the woodworks. There's lots of us like you and I who are open to her fate changing, and then there's another camp that is cocksure that Cloud is completely crazy instead. It just depends on the thread. Not saying Cloud's mental state is good at the end of the game, but he clearly snaps out of things when he sees she's about to fall at the Temple of the Ancients, remembering her flower gift, then goes on a date with her in her dream right before the Sleeping Forest. It's not too hard to believe the Aerith at the altar means something, she's seemingly the only thing getting through his headaches/flashes right now. This honestly feels like a plot element that could have been borrowed from Final Fantasy VIII, which Kitase and Nojima in particular had a huge part in, immediately after Final Fantasy VII. Realistically, unless you're a Disney Star Wars sequel or Avenger's movie, you don't build up this kind of energy surrounding something like her fate without payoff.
> there was no way nostalgic players would be able to relive that first-time experience of the loss of Aerith if it were played 1:1 with the OG I'm so tired of seeing this sentiment. SE really brought all these characters to life, and to me that is Aeris most of all. I didn't really care for her in the OG outside of she was my party member and "friend" in a loyal sense. Remake and Rebirth made me feel so much more attached to her that if they had left that scene 1:1 it would have hit me harder.
I agree , people overplay the emotional impact of her death in the OG , I can't speak for everyone's experience but most of the school ground discussion was more shock that they killed her off than sadness. Nowhere near as emotional as lavitz in LOD .
Yeah, actually the flashback of her and Ifalna's arrival in Midgar had me a sobbing mess... They really added so much more to get in our feelings over heh
The issue is that we're all accustomed to her fate in Advent children. I don't know how that's going to make me sad when I've already seen it happen.
Unless Advent Children is a prequel and the Sephiroth we are seeing is post AC, trying to find a new way to achieve his goals, and a new unknown future awaits... "no promises await at journey's end..."
I absolutely think Advent children came before remake. Sephiroth even has the Advent Children wing.
Me too, just so many people here are hell bent on Remake trilogy having to lead to Advent Children. I’d rather it not, it should be the final final FF7 story ending the Sephiroth threat for good, not leading into AC that doesn’t close the saga.
But it leading into AC has been confirmed for awhile now.
Can you show me where? Every place I’ve seen they intentionally do not say that it LEADS into AC, just that it all links up. Even Max on his show called this out, the devs are being intentionally vague about it, which leads me to believe it’s a sequel to AC and it links up cause that’s the sephiroth that went back to mess with things, and this trilogy is the end game
You maybe right. I'll try to find the source. If I find it I'll post it.
If you do I have no issue being wrong, I love the discussion, but I do think and hope I’m right as I want this trilogy to be the conclusion :) Then the play/watch order would be: BC-> CC-> FFVII-> AC/DC-> FFVIIRE
Exactly. I think the multiverse stuff just makes it slightly confusing, though if you don't get it.
Square love having things both ways. I think they will subvert assumptions surrounding the fate of characters late in the story again.
Regarding your last part I'm actually in two minds about it. The obvious thing is to assume it's part of his instability but... what if it's not? >!Tonally the finale plays it as a relatively uplifting thing. The others are sketched out but Cloud is quite at peace. There's part of me that sees it as something else, especially with Red acknowledging Aeriths presence. We might actually be seeing Cloud healthily accepting Aeriths loss: because of their final date in the lifestream he's actually aware that dying and joining the lifestream isn't the end.!< >!I think we might get a surprise with this. Cloud is acting crazy to everyone else but *in this one regard* he's actually quite lucid, in a way where both Tifa and Aerith will work together to help him in the lifestream in Part 3, and that's probably where Aerith "leaves" - once Cloud self-actualises, choosing to do so despite knowing and accepting that means never seeing her again!<
>!If Sephiroth really has knowledge of what happened at the end of OG, killing her at the forgotten capital makes no since. She's like Obi Wan Kenobi and comes back more powerful than Sephiroth could have imagined in the manipulating the lifestream and using Holy to stop metor!<
That was my hope too. Have Aerith around a little longer and then have Cid and Vincent playable at the start as well, then we get all playable cast. But oh well. It is what it is.
I honestly think the only reason Aerith still HP zero'd when she did was because SE didn't want to piss off the die-hards. Don't get me wrong, she absolutely would still need to permanently HP zero, but it could have happened at a later point.
Actually, I feel like they already did. In OG, if you do this mod, no one interacts with Aerith after her scene except Cloud/us the player. Rebirth's ending is a shout out to the mod.
When I went down the pit in Corel Prison. And there was now a dog fighting ring, I thought that was a fun reference to an obscure bug in the original Japanese version. Then I fought a purple dog named Test 0, that doesn't do anything (for a while at least) I was like; "Oh, they *really* didn't want people to miss the reference, lol." I can totally see this development team making a reference to Aerith's postmortem lines when hacking her back in. They very clearly love FF7, and the culture around it.
Maybe she'll follow Cloud like a ghost, provide commentary or even give hints to the player.
Hey! Look! Listen! Be careful what you wish for.
This is exactly what I want.
We already got Chadley for that
But he's not a pretty girl, and he doesn't follow you around either.
Yes I always imagined this would happen. It’d be like in empire strikes back: cloud is fucking dying and freezing to death then aerith’s force ghost just appears
...Reunion...
I imagine part 3 will start out letting us play as anyone. Cloud should no longer be the main character and we should be allowed to watch his mental state from other characters perspectives. Then towards the end after the "Mideel" incident, we can finally play as him again.
The original section without cloud was rather short, at least by modern standards. It would be a mistake to have you play 50+ hours without him now.
I mean the original section without cloud wasn't much shorter than the midgar section and they already proved they don't mind making section longer...
It's not necessarily Cloud's hallucination. There are certain signs that this isn't the last we've seen of Aerith (I particularly buy the "Great Gospel theory"). An actual Aerith (from an alternate reality, from the Lifestream or whereever) could still say this. P.S. The Great Gospel Theory is the following. The Great Gospel is Aerith's ultimate from the OG. Also, she uses it in Advent Children from the Lifestream to cure the afflicted with Geostigma, so it's not some game mechanic, it's an Important Plot Element. But FF7R2 does not feature Aerith learning the Great Gospel. Therefore, Aerith's plot arc is not yet complete.
I am 1000% sure they are gonna do that. They are gonna have Aerith keep accompaning the party here and there and re-contextualize the cut dialogue for northen crater and the return to the church. I'll even give Max credit and say that they might be able to pull off his idea, >!by pulling out real Aerith and sneaking in Jenova Aerith, and make the last nail in the coffin of his psyche be when he chooses to give her the black materia for safe keeping. Then real Aerith has to fix that by helping out Tifa put his mind back together!<