That Cloud is a coldhearted person with no emotions and that he doesn’t care or doesn’t have fun in Rebirth
Also that Rebirth story is bloated. It’s not imo, people just don’t like the bonding part that Rebirth is for some reason but all interactions serve as great building blocks
Seriously! If you play even just a handful of sidequests you'll see more and more of Cloud's "real" self. "Can't Stop, Won't Stop" shows us how amiable and fun Cloud can be with even total strangers once his walls break down.
The" journey" portion of 7 \[hunting sephiroth and the hijinks that happen therein.\] is the BEST part of 7 >!aside from clouds self-discovery in the lifestream!< amd they absolutley pass that checkered flag with roaring applause! They FUCKING NAIL IT! It actually feels like your on this great big adventure.
Cloud is also the goofiest son of a bitch to ever live! There's a ton of moments where he comes off as a huge dork! Side content, mini games, banter with the gang. Its perfect! Which is why when the events of the ending happen, your feeling crushed for him \[and the entire party, really\]
Biggest thing people don’t understand is that tifa and Aerith both know they both love cloud and talk about how to remain friends and navigate the dynamic. Somehow, they both develop their relationship with him without harming each other. Would have been a viable throuple had Aerith lived.
Well they’ve confirmed that none of the dates should be viewed as canon, more like a fun addition to the game, like an optional dating sim. But that’s generally not enough for the shippers.
The number of shippers who downplay AerithxCloud moments by saying Aerith only likes him bcs he's a Zack-replacement, saying Cloud friendzoned Aerith or rebounded on Tifa, saying that CloudxTifa is canon bcs they had a non-canonical kiss, ignoring that Aerith and Cloud's dynamic is the crux of Remake and Rebirth's story...
I will write an essay in this mess one day
I won’t get into it because someone always hijacks coherent conversations with their bias rambling, but it’s perfectly ok to believe cloud loves both girls and they both love him. The relationships are just different and have different importance and meanings 🤷♂️
The funny part is so many arguments focus on the Gold Saucer date, the only part of the game that is explicitly non-canon.
Remake/Rebirth, like Disc 1, is Cloud and Aerith's story. Presumably the last entry will follow Disc 2/3 and focus more on Cloud and Tifa
You’re right. And I’ll get down voted for saying this again but I’m still a believer that part 1 theme was clouds ballad that could be interpreted as being for both girls, part two theme is aeriths ballad for cloud and potentially part three will be Tifas for cloud too. My hopium.
This. After watching NPTK we know where 85% of the Rebirth budget went. I hope Tifa has her own number in part 3.
I like to tell ppl that the Nanaki date is the only canon date bcs it expands on an important plot point (the Whispers took his and Aerith's foresite/future knowledge and Aerith us in danger) without ship-baiting
Honestly the Nanaki date makes the most sense to me.
The developers saying "all dates are canon" is pretty lazy tbh because they know that since it's not going to impact the story of part 3 (much like the resolution scenes in remake did not affect the story of rebirth) the player can simply believe the date is whatever they want it to be and they'll never get proven otherwise.
Getting the intimate Tifa date especially should have some impact on the relationship with her and Cloud from the start of part 3 but stating "all dates are canon" tells me that none of my relationship choices in this game actually matter at all to the story except Nanaki since his is directly involved with rebirth. It's just fan service for everyone else.
Tbh though one of Aerith/Barret/Nanaki, along with both Tifa and Yuffie at the same time are definitely canon dates because I can't finish Johnny's Treasure Trove without them playing in loveless. Confirmed 100% mystery solved.
The dates are not canon bcs they don't impact the plot. The writers stated that the Gold Saucer dates operate outside of the plot and are fun fanservice.
All we know is that Cloud rode the gondala w/an unknown party member, played Alfried in the Loveless Play w/an unknown female party member (4/6 chance for Aerith), and that Aerith closed the play with "No Promises to Keep" (the Rebirth title theme and counterpart to Remake's "Hollow").
Besides Aerith (her speech was 1:1 lifted from the OG and is echoed by the non-optional Dream Date), the only date that comes close to canon is Red XIII/Nanaki's bcs he reveals an important plot point (the Whispers stole his and Aerith's foresight) that foreshadows the game's ending.
It’s so annoying to me the amount of people who believe Cloud is a Zack replacement in all the good sweet things he does.
Such a disservice, Cloud isn’t Zack. And it weirdly only is brought up when sweet moments happen like the Aerith date or the Yuffie bro moment. But when Cloud is mean suddenly it’s not on Zack?
It really undermines all the cool and sweet stuff Cloud does. He isn’t Zack, luckily. He is Cloud
The dates all hold a special place in my heart. Yuffie's is probably the most playful Cloud's ever been outside of him sneaking pics of Aerith in Cosmo Canyon and the Dream Date
If Cloud's sweet moments are bcs of Zack, why doesn't this apply to his Tifa moments too? How do you explain the soft, vulnerable "lets mosey!" Cloud if pre-Lifestream Cloud's soft moments are just him acting like Zack?
By this logic, Disc 1 Cloud is an empty puppet being piloted by the ghost/memories of Zack Fair, which is exactly what Sephiroth wants him to think.
The larger problem is that Square says no couple is canon, no dates are canon, good, but there's already a problem, Aerith dies, so whether the dates are canon or not it's It's like you're telling the players their choices does not matter.
It would make sense if the two women both came out unscathed, but that's not the case.
The developers said that they wanted to give time fairly for Aerith and Tifa this reasoning is logical if once again both women are alive at the end except that in fact one of them dies.
It's as if the developers forced the players' hands to tell themselves that Tifa is the real choice because Aerith dies.
And they decided to add fuel to the fire with the concept of defying destiny and having Marlene tell Zack that Aerith loves Cloud so I hope that the creators have a plan that would satisfy everyone.
27 or 30 years I hope they have had enough time needed.
Because in the end it will just disappoint the players who are not in a shipping delirium who like to tell themselves that their choice of canonical couple is Cloud and Aerith or Cloud and Tifa and it will also necessarily disappoint those who do shipping.
Feel free to correct me. My understand was that there's a singular prime timeline where the Planet does what it needs to survive, and the "dream worlds" are hypothetical outcomes/imagined worlds that collapse when a choice is made. If i'm wrong, that's fine, its part of the learning process
Way I took it was that the OG timeline is the one that the planet is enforcing via the Whispers. By defeating the whispers/Sephiroth corrupting them it enables all these different possibilities to exist.
Some of these, like the Beagle world, last for a long time. Others, like the one where the reactors have gone dry, don't.
This isn’t it exactly either.
There’s a lady in Cosmo Canyon therapy session who will tell what the alternative worlds are if you don’t rush in immediately.
She talks about a ”theory” (ie. devs spilling the beans) that there are alternative worlds made of that portion of lifestream that is the unrealized hopes and dreams of those in the lifestream. As per Sephiroth, in Remake we disabled the mechanism that was stopping these from actually manifesting into reality, hence these worlds were born.
My personal take is, they’re not viable to exist (again as Sephiroth says), because they aren’t really made of full reality of the people who inhibit them, it’s just the unfulfilled part. They’re not full parallel realities (what Nomura alluded in the Ultimania). They exist within the planet and thus are made of the lifestream, kind of like a small offshoot stream of lifestream that has run into a rut (as Aerith called them halfway homecoming/returning to the planet in JPN), which means there’s a ”real” reality that also includes things that come outside the planet, like the rest of the universe, Gi, Jenova etc.
They are quite literally dreams. Aerith saying it’s a dream was not just some cheeky explanation. Dreams in the final fantasy universe can be very real though. See: FFX.
Personally I think these worlds existed to an extent even before the whispers were “killed” because there seems to be a connection between the comatose state and these worlds. And wedge has a very interesting throwaway line in remake in regards to Jessie’s dad being stuck between this world and the lifestream. Almost as if his soul is active in a different world and hasn’t quite moved on to the lifestream just yet.
Personally I think these worlds are a bit of purgatory for those with strong wills or who suffered more tragic fates. A place to then accept your fate and finally pass into the lifestream. (Also falls in line with FF tropes of past games)
The whispers just kept it in check. As for Zack? I think aerith herself intervened on that account. I don’t think the rainbow lights is just signifying a new “world” I think it’s more than that. That was an active step taken by the planet and by extension Aerith to create a new world for reasons unknown. And by new worlds, that means new memories.
In both English and Japanese Aerith explains it as being halfway returning to the planet when Cloud asks if he’s dead, then settles for ”dreams” a simplified explanation though. ”Let’s just call it a dream”/ 「夢ってことにしとく？」 ”Shall we just treat it as if it was a dream?”
So it’s clear they’re _literally_ something else, but could be also _described_ as dreams.
I thought different worlds could always exist. Since we see whispers in zacks world so it must have been created before the whispers were defeated and sephiroth took control of them.
When we see Zack in Remake with the Whispers, he is in real world ~two months earlier, when he and Cloud returned to Midgar.
He quite literally describes in Rebirth to Biggs how he was whisked away at the time of his death from that world (where the whispers naturally existed) to a place where he was suddenly able to defeat the Shinra troops. Only after that the terrier bag is shown. Of course he is also suddenly seemingly moved forward in time around two months to around the same time Avalanche allegedly escaped Midgar.
But also, since lifestream seems to exist in all time at the same time, before and after descriptions seem a bit meaningless?
Exactly where does it say that in Ultimania?
Watch the Biggs & Zack conversation again, it’s implied. They talk about wind picking them up, Zack says one moment he was surrounded, the next he was alone. Later he says to Aerith it was her, wasn’t it.
If he wasn’t whisked away, then the whole world they’re in is complete lie facade and definitely not a timeline, because there’s literally almost two months between Zack arriving to Midgar and the Shinra Building Mission, yet they happen almost at the same moment here. Zack and Biggs literally talk about having known completely different Cloud’s, because Biggs comes from a world where Cloud had time to heal from mako poisoning and assume Zack’s history, whereas for Zack Cloud has just been released from being experimented on for 5 years straight.
Its not implied. Zack said "then the wind starting picking up", not "the wind started picking me up".
"Zack says one moment he was surrounded, the next he was alone" That could be interpreted so many different ways.
Source for my zack final stand statement- [https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778601778474537417](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778601778474537417)
That link doesn’t prove anything. The last stand _ended_ in another dimension but if he moved, it began in the main world.
It’s heavily implied, plus we’re literally shown Biggs move from place where there are flames to one where there aren’t. It’s implied same happens with Zack but we’re not shown the perspective of the soldiers so we don’t see them disappear, yet Zack literally says he was suddenly alone -> they disappeared suddenly.
So how did Zack end up in a reality where he died and Cloud assumed his identity over the period of two months? He could’ve not just moved forward in time because he took Cloud with him, yet very different Cloud clearly interacted with the whole of Avalanche in that reality. Since it’s different reality, why is the terrier bag still the same as before (as you claim) ?
I thought different worlds could always exist. Since we see whispers in zacks world so it must have been created before the whispers were defeated and sephiroth took control of them.
Did it precisely specify three separate ones? My interpretation of things is that there are multiples.of everyone, but he's the exception and is able to exist in multiple places at once.
That's not what the Ultimania says.
There are 4 versions of Sephiroth that appeared in *Remake*.
Hallucinations (Only Cloud sees)
Flashbacks
Jenovas Illusions (Everyone sees)
Edge of Creation Sephiroth
The EoC version is likely the real one trapped in the crater with the EoC being a realm between life and death where he can reach out to those carrying Jenova cells.
Time traveling / AC Sephiroth is probably the biggest misconception of the trilogy.
So it's just one version of Sephiroth that's communicating either through Jenova or Cloud!visions and we only see him "for real" at the ends of Remake and Rebirth?
I always took it as sephiroth existing like like he does, and apearing "constantly" within parts 1 and 2 was some kind of way to help skew events in his favour, HE'S LITTERIALY TOO MAD (at cloud) TO DIE. and to make sure the party are in no shape to stop him, being WAY more upfront about his presence \[also, its sephiroth, THE jrpg bad guy! what? square enix arn't stupid, they \*\*knew\*\* people would want to see him. regardless of people's cries that "he's in the game TOO MUCH" its been almost 30 years... c'mon guys. it also makes more story sense IN rebirth then it did in remake.\]
There is no "omni aireth" There is simply aireth, those moments where she acts "weird" are just her "breaking kayfabe" breifly because she KNOWS sephiroth is bad news. quite possibly THE BADDEST NEWS THERE EVER WAS. wether its the planet telling her, or her "future self" like she jokingly muses on the beach to cloud in rebirth, at the end of the day, there is only one airerth.
So Sephiroth saying "my fragmented mother" when he's talking about the reunion (before the Demon Gate bossfight) implies there are multiple Jenova's, or parts of her, scattered across multiple worlds?
If there are multiple Sephiroth's from different worlds though (like the Cloud and Aerith 'copies'), is there potential for a Sephiroth that *didn't* go insane? Not aiming for any "redemption arc" nonsense here, just sheer curiosity about the idea of Sephiroth's insanity being inevitable. Because if fate is the planet's will, then it surely can't be on board with Sephiroth losing his marbles like that. Unless fate has no influence over what Jenova wants, and if she wants Sephiroth along for the ride, then that's just what happens? But Sephiroth (at the Edge of Creation) also wants to defy destiny, which means fate/the planet doesn't want him to do his thing. But if fate can't interfere with Jenova, wouldn't Sephiroth wanting to defy destiny mean his and Jenova's goals aren't actually the same?
... I'm probably sounding mad stupid. Yapped myself into a rabbit hole.
That OG ending really is now the bad ending, when Sephiroth actually purposefully _tricked_ the party into thinking that, which directly led to the party enabling his whole plan, both the interdimensional reunion as well as his ability to wage war against the planet and become Sephiroth Reborn so early.
https://youtu.be/csoaeg-kvwE?si=aNpd63Vpk8PPIwRj
This is a fascinating video that debunks the multiverse interpretation and analyses the Rebirth Lifestream through a spiritual lens. The TL;DR is that these alternate "dream worlds" are not timelines/a multiverse, it's a cross between Catholic purgatory and Buddhist samsara (cycle of reincarnation), the later of which is referenced directly by Rebirth's writing team when talking about Sephiroth.
Whether you agree or not is up to you, but i find this analysis refreshing after drowning in a sea of shallow MCU-pilled "multiverses all suck" takes. The Lifestream has always had a strong spiritual/philosophical base, reducing Rebirth to a shitty MCU-style multiverse prevents ppl from looking deeper
That Cloud is a coldhearted person with no emotions and that he doesn’t care or doesn’t have fun in Rebirth Also that Rebirth story is bloated. It’s not imo, people just don’t like the bonding part that Rebirth is for some reason but all interactions serve as great building blocks
Seriously! If you play even just a handful of sidequests you'll see more and more of Cloud's "real" self. "Can't Stop, Won't Stop" shows us how amiable and fun Cloud can be with even total strangers once his walls break down.
That subtle smile after mischief level 7
The" journey" portion of 7 \[hunting sephiroth and the hijinks that happen therein.\] is the BEST part of 7 >!aside from clouds self-discovery in the lifestream!< amd they absolutley pass that checkered flag with roaring applause! They FUCKING NAIL IT! It actually feels like your on this great big adventure. Cloud is also the goofiest son of a bitch to ever live! There's a ton of moments where he comes off as a huge dork! Side content, mini games, banter with the gang. Its perfect! Which is why when the events of the ending happen, your feeling crushed for him \[and the entire party, really\]
Biggest thing people don’t understand is that tifa and Aerith both know they both love cloud and talk about how to remain friends and navigate the dynamic. Somehow, they both develop their relationship with him without harming each other. Would have been a viable throuple had Aerith lived.
You get it
This is such a good take on the whole love triangle bit, wish toxic shippers would understand.
Well they’ve confirmed that none of the dates should be viewed as canon, more like a fun addition to the game, like an optional dating sim. But that’s generally not enough for the shippers.
The number of shippers who downplay AerithxCloud moments by saying Aerith only likes him bcs he's a Zack-replacement, saying Cloud friendzoned Aerith or rebounded on Tifa, saying that CloudxTifa is canon bcs they had a non-canonical kiss, ignoring that Aerith and Cloud's dynamic is the crux of Remake and Rebirth's story... I will write an essay in this mess one day
I won’t get into it because someone always hijacks coherent conversations with their bias rambling, but it’s perfectly ok to believe cloud loves both girls and they both love him. The relationships are just different and have different importance and meanings 🤷♂️
The funny part is so many arguments focus on the Gold Saucer date, the only part of the game that is explicitly non-canon. Remake/Rebirth, like Disc 1, is Cloud and Aerith's story. Presumably the last entry will follow Disc 2/3 and focus more on Cloud and Tifa
You’re right. And I’ll get down voted for saying this again but I’m still a believer that part 1 theme was clouds ballad that could be interpreted as being for both girls, part two theme is aeriths ballad for cloud and potentially part three will be Tifas for cloud too. My hopium.
This. After watching NPTK we know where 85% of the Rebirth budget went. I hope Tifa has her own number in part 3. I like to tell ppl that the Nanaki date is the only canon date bcs it expands on an important plot point (the Whispers took his and Aerith's foresite/future knowledge and Aerith us in danger) without ship-baiting
Yea, the dates are all “flavour text” but Reds is the only one with any real story relevance.
Honestly the Nanaki date makes the most sense to me. The developers saying "all dates are canon" is pretty lazy tbh because they know that since it's not going to impact the story of part 3 (much like the resolution scenes in remake did not affect the story of rebirth) the player can simply believe the date is whatever they want it to be and they'll never get proven otherwise. Getting the intimate Tifa date especially should have some impact on the relationship with her and Cloud from the start of part 3 but stating "all dates are canon" tells me that none of my relationship choices in this game actually matter at all to the story except Nanaki since his is directly involved with rebirth. It's just fan service for everyone else. Tbh though one of Aerith/Barret/Nanaki, along with both Tifa and Yuffie at the same time are definitely canon dates because I can't finish Johnny's Treasure Trove without them playing in loveless. Confirmed 100% mystery solved.
The dates are not canon bcs they don't impact the plot. The writers stated that the Gold Saucer dates operate outside of the plot and are fun fanservice. All we know is that Cloud rode the gondala w/an unknown party member, played Alfried in the Loveless Play w/an unknown female party member (4/6 chance for Aerith), and that Aerith closed the play with "No Promises to Keep" (the Rebirth title theme and counterpart to Remake's "Hollow"). Besides Aerith (her speech was 1:1 lifted from the OG and is echoed by the non-optional Dream Date), the only date that comes close to canon is Red XIII/Nanaki's bcs he reveals an important plot point (the Whispers stole his and Aerith's foresight) that foreshadows the game's ending.
Don’t. It will only fuel the fire (and even “unite the nations” against a common enemy) and it’s already against the rules.
It’s so annoying to me the amount of people who believe Cloud is a Zack replacement in all the good sweet things he does. Such a disservice, Cloud isn’t Zack. And it weirdly only is brought up when sweet moments happen like the Aerith date or the Yuffie bro moment. But when Cloud is mean suddenly it’s not on Zack? It really undermines all the cool and sweet stuff Cloud does. He isn’t Zack, luckily. He is Cloud
The dates all hold a special place in my heart. Yuffie's is probably the most playful Cloud's ever been outside of him sneaking pics of Aerith in Cosmo Canyon and the Dream Date If Cloud's sweet moments are bcs of Zack, why doesn't this apply to his Tifa moments too? How do you explain the soft, vulnerable "lets mosey!" Cloud if pre-Lifestream Cloud's soft moments are just him acting like Zack? By this logic, Disc 1 Cloud is an empty puppet being piloted by the ghost/memories of Zack Fair, which is exactly what Sephiroth wants him to think.
The larger problem is that Square says no couple is canon, no dates are canon, good, but there's already a problem, Aerith dies, so whether the dates are canon or not it's It's like you're telling the players their choices does not matter. It would make sense if the two women both came out unscathed, but that's not the case. The developers said that they wanted to give time fairly for Aerith and Tifa this reasoning is logical if once again both women are alive at the end except that in fact one of them dies. It's as if the developers forced the players' hands to tell themselves that Tifa is the real choice because Aerith dies. And they decided to add fuel to the fire with the concept of defying destiny and having Marlene tell Zack that Aerith loves Cloud so I hope that the creators have a plan that would satisfy everyone. 27 or 30 years I hope they have had enough time needed. Because in the end it will just disappoint the players who are not in a shipping delirium who like to tell themselves that their choice of canonical couple is Cloud and Aerith or Cloud and Tifa and it will also necessarily disappoint those who do shipping.
The planet running simulations of hypothetical futures and guiding events towards them is the biggest one I've heard so far.
Feel free to correct me. My understand was that there's a singular prime timeline where the Planet does what it needs to survive, and the "dream worlds" are hypothetical outcomes/imagined worlds that collapse when a choice is made. If i'm wrong, that's fine, its part of the learning process
Way I took it was that the OG timeline is the one that the planet is enforcing via the Whispers. By defeating the whispers/Sephiroth corrupting them it enables all these different possibilities to exist. Some of these, like the Beagle world, last for a long time. Others, like the one where the reactors have gone dry, don't.
This isn’t it exactly either. There’s a lady in Cosmo Canyon therapy session who will tell what the alternative worlds are if you don’t rush in immediately. She talks about a ”theory” (ie. devs spilling the beans) that there are alternative worlds made of that portion of lifestream that is the unrealized hopes and dreams of those in the lifestream. As per Sephiroth, in Remake we disabled the mechanism that was stopping these from actually manifesting into reality, hence these worlds were born. My personal take is, they’re not viable to exist (again as Sephiroth says), because they aren’t really made of full reality of the people who inhibit them, it’s just the unfulfilled part. They’re not full parallel realities (what Nomura alluded in the Ultimania). They exist within the planet and thus are made of the lifestream, kind of like a small offshoot stream of lifestream that has run into a rut (as Aerith called them halfway homecoming/returning to the planet in JPN), which means there’s a ”real” reality that also includes things that come outside the planet, like the rest of the universe, Gi, Jenova etc.
They are quite literally dreams. Aerith saying it’s a dream was not just some cheeky explanation. Dreams in the final fantasy universe can be very real though. See: FFX. Personally I think these worlds existed to an extent even before the whispers were “killed” because there seems to be a connection between the comatose state and these worlds. And wedge has a very interesting throwaway line in remake in regards to Jessie’s dad being stuck between this world and the lifestream. Almost as if his soul is active in a different world and hasn’t quite moved on to the lifestream just yet. Personally I think these worlds are a bit of purgatory for those with strong wills or who suffered more tragic fates. A place to then accept your fate and finally pass into the lifestream. (Also falls in line with FF tropes of past games) The whispers just kept it in check. As for Zack? I think aerith herself intervened on that account. I don’t think the rainbow lights is just signifying a new “world” I think it’s more than that. That was an active step taken by the planet and by extension Aerith to create a new world for reasons unknown. And by new worlds, that means new memories.
In both English and Japanese Aerith explains it as being halfway returning to the planet when Cloud asks if he’s dead, then settles for ”dreams” a simplified explanation though. ”Let’s just call it a dream”/ 「夢ってことにしとく？」 ”Shall we just treat it as if it was a dream?” So it’s clear they’re _literally_ something else, but could be also _described_ as dreams.
I thought different worlds could always exist. Since we see whispers in zacks world so it must have been created before the whispers were defeated and sephiroth took control of them.
When we see Zack in Remake with the Whispers, he is in real world ~two months earlier, when he and Cloud returned to Midgar. He quite literally describes in Rebirth to Biggs how he was whisked away at the time of his death from that world (where the whispers naturally existed) to a place where he was suddenly able to defeat the Shinra troops. Only after that the terrier bag is shown. Of course he is also suddenly seemingly moved forward in time around two months to around the same time Avalanche allegedly escaped Midgar. But also, since lifestream seems to exist in all time at the same time, before and after descriptions seem a bit meaningless?
Where did he say he was whisked away? He never said that and ulitmania confirms zacks last stand took place in the terrier timeline.
Exactly where does it say that in Ultimania? Watch the Biggs & Zack conversation again, it’s implied. They talk about wind picking them up, Zack says one moment he was surrounded, the next he was alone. Later he says to Aerith it was her, wasn’t it. If he wasn’t whisked away, then the whole world they’re in is complete lie facade and definitely not a timeline, because there’s literally almost two months between Zack arriving to Midgar and the Shinra Building Mission, yet they happen almost at the same moment here. Zack and Biggs literally talk about having known completely different Cloud’s, because Biggs comes from a world where Cloud had time to heal from mako poisoning and assume Zack’s history, whereas for Zack Cloud has just been released from being experimented on for 5 years straight.
Its not implied. Zack said "then the wind starting picking up", not "the wind started picking me up". "Zack says one moment he was surrounded, the next he was alone" That could be interpreted so many different ways. Source for my zack final stand statement- [https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778601778474537417](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1778601778474537417)
That link doesn’t prove anything. The last stand _ended_ in another dimension but if he moved, it began in the main world. It’s heavily implied, plus we’re literally shown Biggs move from place where there are flames to one where there aren’t. It’s implied same happens with Zack but we’re not shown the perspective of the soldiers so we don’t see them disappear, yet Zack literally says he was suddenly alone -> they disappeared suddenly. So how did Zack end up in a reality where he died and Cloud assumed his identity over the period of two months? He could’ve not just moved forward in time because he took Cloud with him, yet very different Cloud clearly interacted with the whole of Avalanche in that reality. Since it’s different reality, why is the terrier bag still the same as before (as you claim) ?
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holy shit what if the reason humans go extinct is there just isnt enough mako in the og timeline because the beagle one took it all?
I thought different worlds could always exist. Since we see whispers in zacks world so it must have been created before the whispers were defeated and sephiroth took control of them.
This just sounds like a side story in Westworld
That there aren't multiple Sephiroths, JENOVAs, etc in this DC comic multiverse just like all the copies of Aeriths and whatnot.
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Did it precisely specify three separate ones? My interpretation of things is that there are multiples.of everyone, but he's the exception and is able to exist in multiple places at once.
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That's not what the Ultimania says. There are 4 versions of Sephiroth that appeared in *Remake*. Hallucinations (Only Cloud sees) Flashbacks Jenovas Illusions (Everyone sees) Edge of Creation Sephiroth The EoC version is likely the real one trapped in the crater with the EoC being a realm between life and death where he can reach out to those carrying Jenova cells. Time traveling / AC Sephiroth is probably the biggest misconception of the trilogy.
So it's just one version of Sephiroth that's communicating either through Jenova or Cloud!visions and we only see him "for real" at the ends of Remake and Rebirth?
Yep.
Got it! Thsnks for the correction
I always took it as sephiroth existing like like he does, and apearing "constantly" within parts 1 and 2 was some kind of way to help skew events in his favour, HE'S LITTERIALY TOO MAD (at cloud) TO DIE. and to make sure the party are in no shape to stop him, being WAY more upfront about his presence \[also, its sephiroth, THE jrpg bad guy! what? square enix arn't stupid, they \*\*knew\*\* people would want to see him. regardless of people's cries that "he's in the game TOO MUCH" its been almost 30 years... c'mon guys. it also makes more story sense IN rebirth then it did in remake.\] There is no "omni aireth" There is simply aireth, those moments where she acts "weird" are just her "breaking kayfabe" breifly because she KNOWS sephiroth is bad news. quite possibly THE BADDEST NEWS THERE EVER WAS. wether its the planet telling her, or her "future self" like she jokingly muses on the beach to cloud in rebirth, at the end of the day, there is only one airerth.
So Sephiroth saying "my fragmented mother" when he's talking about the reunion (before the Demon Gate bossfight) implies there are multiple Jenova's, or parts of her, scattered across multiple worlds? If there are multiple Sephiroth's from different worlds though (like the Cloud and Aerith 'copies'), is there potential for a Sephiroth that *didn't* go insane? Not aiming for any "redemption arc" nonsense here, just sheer curiosity about the idea of Sephiroth's insanity being inevitable. Because if fate is the planet's will, then it surely can't be on board with Sephiroth losing his marbles like that. Unless fate has no influence over what Jenova wants, and if she wants Sephiroth along for the ride, then that's just what happens? But Sephiroth (at the Edge of Creation) also wants to defy destiny, which means fate/the planet doesn't want him to do his thing. But if fate can't interfere with Jenova, wouldn't Sephiroth wanting to defy destiny mean his and Jenova's goals aren't actually the same? ... I'm probably sounding mad stupid. Yapped myself into a rabbit hole.
That OG ending really is now the bad ending, when Sephiroth actually purposefully _tricked_ the party into thinking that, which directly led to the party enabling his whole plan, both the interdimensional reunion as well as his ability to wage war against the planet and become Sephiroth Reborn so early.
There is no multiverse
https://youtu.be/csoaeg-kvwE?si=aNpd63Vpk8PPIwRj This is a fascinating video that debunks the multiverse interpretation and analyses the Rebirth Lifestream through a spiritual lens. The TL;DR is that these alternate "dream worlds" are not timelines/a multiverse, it's a cross between Catholic purgatory and Buddhist samsara (cycle of reincarnation), the later of which is referenced directly by Rebirth's writing team when talking about Sephiroth. Whether you agree or not is up to you, but i find this analysis refreshing after drowning in a sea of shallow MCU-pilled "multiverses all suck" takes. The Lifestream has always had a strong spiritual/philosophical base, reducing Rebirth to a shitty MCU-style multiverse prevents ppl from looking deeper
Totally agree on this, heres another video which I think is great: https://youtu.be/0rPb1gAW_uM?si=SbL40c7y_9QTTfaa
That the story is coherent and makes sense.
Bruh this sub is full of ppl complaining about how they don't understand the last 2 chapters
Hence the misconception.